danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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You can't.
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As of right now, long games are always the fault of the survivors. No reason they shouldn't be done in like 5 minutes.
It's funny though that, as usual, the killer's somehow at fault for the problem.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I don’t think it’s a problem anymore with the 2.5% instant regression. It was unfair before that was implemented though.
That simple, huh?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
You shave off 2.5% of a generator every time you kick it. That's like 0.45 seconds more than the animation takes. If people are constantly tapping gens then it's a net gain for you.
Not if the survivors know how to play. The others are pushing other gens while you can the 1 are trading gen taps.
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@foodie said:
Ever since the update released, I faced the Knight 0 times because every time I see the lil loading screen message about the Knight and get excited to finally face this killer for the first time, one survivor quits the game during the loading screen, effectively preventing me from playing vs this killer and also not receiving a matchmaking ban for it.
So, my question is why? What is so wrong with the Knight on survivor side that makes people not want to face him?
The lil messaging in the loading screen showing who the killer is only helping the ragers.
I'm hoping that they're at least rage quitting against him because they've faced him. If they're rage quitting just because of the concept of them facing him, simply because they've heard other people call him "unfair OP", I don't know what to say.
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@Veinslay said:
Because he's so overpowered that survivors have no way of countering him. I can't believe the devs made a killer with zero counterplay
Lol.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281557#Comment_3281557
What's the metric for killer strength though
How many hooks they can get and still win? How many kills they can get? How long it takes for them to down someone?
Killrates seem to show majority of the roster getting more than a 2k on average.
Trapper, the worst killer in the game has a 56% killrate in the top 5% of MMR Which I guess you could equate to "high level" (Personally, I have no idea if that's what it means)
Obviously, stats aren't everything and you cannot draw concrete conclusions from them of course but what does this mean? Does this mean that Killer isn't so hard if you're willing to play a certain way/use certain perks and so on?
There isn't one. You can't quantify survivor strength either. You just have to use your experience and what the game looks like at high level. Most stats released are absolutely useless and misleading. I keep hearing "killer has a 61% win rate!" Wow, because killing just over 2 survivors on average is really strong or something. And even then that's inflated because you know it's focusing on all levels, not just high level, so there's a million games in there were the survivors were awful or there were DCs. If it was focusing on high level, not only would you see how many killers are barely played there, you'd see them have a 40% win rate tops, because they can't do anything vs people who know what they're doing.
Certain perks and playstyles do elevate your win rate with killer. A while back, especially before MMR, I considered Demogorgon like a top 5 killer. He had to have Black Heart/Barbs Glasses (for shred to be worth), and Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out/NOED (because those are near enough the only slowdown for killer that's guaranteed), as well as focusing 1-2 people down only, and not playing on crap maps like The Game or ones that had few linear tiles. But he was working out for me very well, surprisingly. Then, as soon as MMR dropped and I was very high with him, I got 3-4 man losses with him like 4/5 games, because he can't do much vs people who know how to play.
Engineer's Fang/Hoarder Pinhead, on top of being the most fun/unique killer build in the game's history, was a build that pushed Pinhead to being a top 4 killer. If you had 1 thing go wrong at top MMR, like miss a possessed chain which was supposed to stop them from solving the box or couldn't get a down on the box holder very quickly, you lost everything very quickly. But if you played really well and made few or no mistakes, you could actually win consistently. Then they nerfed Eng Fang because pinks aren't supposed to be strong, nerfed his other decent add-ons including some brown and green add-ons, and narrowly avoided a nerf to Hoarder (yes, people literally asked for this pretty regularly), the build and Pinhead himself were ruined.
So yes, killer isn't so hard if you use a certain build/strategy AND face a manageable caliber of survivors, but as you can see, that's becoming less and less possible each patch.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281545#Comment_3281545
I like how you intentionally ignore Deadlock in your comparison
A perk that you bring and have to do nothing for it to work. Like, you could go AFK and not pressure survivors at all and deadlock will still go off and prolong the match.
People are complaining about Eruption because the counterplay to it, is virtually nonexistant. Pain res I don't see anyone complaining about personally and pop is probably the weakest gen regression perk in the game now compared to the others
There is nuance to people's complaints, unlike what that clip you posted would make you believe. It's not just "wah this perk lets killers win so nerf it its bad", Eruption is a problematic perk for a few reasons but if you ask me - it's what I said previously; minimal counterplay/removal of player agency.
Obviously, that applies both ways - people's complaints about surv perks have nuance to them too. I'm not saying otherwise.
It has the exact same counterplay as Eruption, AND it has no regression. You go do a different gen while yours is blocked, you work on it again when it's unblocked. Have the whole team be smart enough to do that, and suddenly you're doing gens left and right because you already had progress on others while the almost-finished one was blocked. Or, since survivors have enough time, you can literally wait out the 30 seconds, like you would Eruption. Doesn't matter that you don't do work for it, because you're the killer, and it simply delays the inevitable of all the gens getting done. You also can't kick or Pain Res with it while it's blocking a gen.
Trust me, every gen slowdown perk under the sun is complained about, because the casuals are very loud and great in number. They say Pain Res is still broken, and Pop is "fine" knocking off 5% of a gen.
You can talk about nuance all you want, but the truth is that killers regularly lose from winning nonstop in chase. Survivors can be bad in chase/good on gens, bad on gens/good in chase, or medicore in both and still win. What did the killer do to deserve that outcome? Took A 20-second chase, maybe didn't bring 3-4 gen defence perks, or maybe had to break too many pallets which had no mindgame. I'd love to go back to being neutral, you have no idea. But the game balance and the trends I've seen just won't allow me.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281534#Comment_3281534
It's easy at lower ranks, it works at higher ranks and it stays meta all the way up and into competitive levels of play.
I'd rather encourage people to go for fresh Hooks and make that the optimal play over decimating one Survivor who can't really do anything about it.
Not sure how it's easy at the low level. Killers are just as nooby as the survivors. And that's why I argue "balance for the top." If something a killer has is buffed so that they can compete at top level, they won't suddenly do extra well at low level, because those killers are still learning/playing bad as well, and probably accidentally tunnel while not even knowing it's a good strat.
The way you discourage tunneling is giving killers time to chase, which for right now means making gen defence good, which it isn't.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281509#Comment_3281509
Ah yes, the famous weak combination of old Ruin Undying Tinkerer Deadlock on Nurse, the infamously weak killer, using her notoriously poor addons of old range when it increased blink speed.
Honestly, do y'all ever think about average killer strength without making Nurse the forefront? It's pretty typical and easy for y'all to ignore the existence of Clown, Freddy, Ghost Face, etc. Why not do the same for Nurse every now and then? Just a thought.
I don't think any killer is arguing that combo isn't strong. Nurse's range add-ons should not have doubled as charged time add-ons, as Otz had to point out for months or years until it got nerfed. But what's wrong with Deadlock or Tinkerer? Tinkerer's nerf especially was complete BS. After Undying AND Ruin was nerfed, Tinkerer should have been fine activating multiple times. We're seeing history repeat itself with CoB/Overcharge/Eruption, where the 1 perk Eruption is the "problematic perk", but we're also calling for nerfs to the other perks in the combo as well? Makes no sense.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281521#Comment_3281521
I wouldn't call this a perfect description of anything tbh.
I respect Tru3's opinion as he's entitled to it the same as anyone but he often makes broad generalisations that have some truth to them but it's not 100% of the picture. I'm pretty sure he even admits that what he says is based mostly on his own experiences and what he's seen which isn't always completely accurate to how things are overall.
Again both roles complain about the strong stuff each side has, there's no "cycle". People who play this game aren't a hivemind
But there is truth in what he's saying and there are trends with what people do. Before Deathslinger's nerf (when he was S tier, I've heard), I didn't have to camp and tunnel. I could just put on STBFL, or to play it safe 4 gen defence perks, simply go for chases and usually get good results. Now I don't play him because of the nerf. But that's just 1 killer; we're talking about killer perks, which affect every killer. With old Ruin, I could go for more chases. Same with pre-nerf Ruin/Undying, Tinkerer, Pop, Pain Res, etc. All nerfed, and now I'm having to tunnel or else I don't get A kill a lot of the time. Maybe Tru3 and I's experiences aren't the same as others', but we're at high level which the game should be balanced off of, because that's where the most skill is. Problem is there's little to no expression of that skill because of the forced outcome of "tunnel or 2k."
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281509#Comment_3281509
The survivor meta are perks that keep them in the match as long as possible
The killer meta are perks that keep them in the match as long as possible
They aren't so different you know
Besides, both sides abuse broken stuff. They always have, and probably always will because people want to win.
There's a very big difference. The killer's gen defence perks are mostly based on people getting injured, downed, hooked, and kicking gens. The survivor's perks are activated by, what, being injured, vaulting a window, getting off hook which was their fault in the first place. Survivor second chance perks are way more forgiving and simple to execute. They also trump the killer's slowdown, and not the other way around like most people like to believe. What's the top killer perks people complain about? Eruption, Pain Res, Pop even. But they all require a down, so how's the killer gonna get the slowdown from the perk if they're barely downing people because of second chances? They just don't, unless it's against bad survivors who can't give a single 20s+ chase. You can't even use gen defence once they're all done, so that's another crucial way they're different from survivor second chance perks. The devs are only now equalizing that.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281509#Comment_3281509
That's just hilariously biased holy #########
BOTH sides use whatever perks are the strongest at the current time.
I know that, but the perspective and why they're doing it is completely different. Look at this clip in this comment below and see if you understand the trend being explained.
@danielmaster87 said:
This clip describes this cycle perfectly: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxvpGrZYdxHLr_piz2x9LYuLXcnlQ7vRVu
For the most part I agree with you, but then the random "STBFL is OP on Deathslinger." It was strong, not broken, but that was before his nerf, because now his zoom-in is much too slow for the quick time to down which that build aimed for. And killer can get 4-man escaped against even with gen defense. People will totally ask for a Jolt nerf though. "It's just like Eruption but no cooldown!" is the excuse I'm expecting.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280830#Comment_3280830
Because it's unfun and ultimately less skillful than other styles of play.
Killers shouldn't feel like they need to tunnel to win and Survivors shouldn't feel like they need to stack perks to prevent it.
Are you sure you really believe that second statement, because you're not exactly empathizing with killers who feel they need to tunnel, are you? It's always "easy" and "something casuals do," as well as hyperfocusing on how the survivors feels.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280818#Comment_3280818
Yeah I guess 75% of matches is way rarer than 100%.
Still an exaggeration. If I could simply tunnel 1 person, and get a 4k like that every time, why isn't that happening in my matches, either as killer or survivor? Once survivors see what's happening and have any level of awareness of what's happening, they rush gens and 3-4 get out. The matches where a DC/kill self on hook happen, isn't due to tunneling, it's due to the DC.
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For example, "It's every Huntress!" yet I've had maybe 1 Huntress hard camp/tunnel me in like the last 8 months.
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@Pulsar said:
I'm not being camped or tunneled every match.
But I do witness it happening almost every match. It's easy and it works against 99% of teams.
Are you being sarcastic or...?
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This clip describes this cycle perfectly: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxvpGrZYdxHLr_piz2x9LYuLXcnlQ7vRVu
For the most part I agree with you, but then the random "STBFL is OP on Deathslinger." It was strong, not broken, but that was before his nerf, because now his zoom-in is much too slow for the quick time to down which that build aimed for. And killer can get 4-man escaped against even with gen defense. People will totally ask for a Jolt nerf though. "It's just like Eruption but no cooldown!" is the excuse I'm expecting.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281222#Comment_3281222
its not braindead to use in the open yes but near pallets its still dumb
It is with a little luck. Spin into the killer once, they wait, spin into them a second time, they wait, DH all of a sudden, guaranteed killer time waste even if it fails or you don't even have it.
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@feechima said:
Ruin fell out of favor because there are better alternatives.
DH did not fall out of favor because there are no better alternatives.
The difference being that the survivor meta is whatever is the most broken, because for killer it's whatever is the least weak.
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@Emeal said:
Please use paragraphs when you write.
Also changes for SWF is being worked on, Peanits says so right here.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5G4TG3WX9DPY/image.png
Im personally just gonna kick back and wait for this one.
They did use a paragraph. Sometimes it's just short enough to where splitting it into 2-3 paragraphs would be redundant.
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@Veinslay said:
I agree that SWF needs to be handicapped, but it's never going to happen. The devs don't even acknowledge the SWF advantage and refuse to share any stats of kill rates vs. 3 or 4 man SWF. If you suggest handicapping SWF, the three basic responses you will get are:
"The tough teams are so rare it doesn't even matter!" (lie). EDIT: added bonus is god Nurses are equally rare but she needs to be nerfed into unplayable status though because it's different somehow
"You can't punish people for playing with their friends!" (you can certainly punish the player that wanted to have fun playing Ghostface or Pallet Freddy though. Trying to make the game more fair for all parties isn't punishment)
"SWF doesn't give any advantages! Killers only lose to them because they're bad! Solo queue can be just as good!" (lie)
Solo can be just as good as SWF... when the matchmaking works. It doesn't mean that SWF doesn't have a distinct advantage over killers though.
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A simple gen speed debuff would do. That's all it takes. SWF is stronger because it's more efficient, so curtail the efficiency to make it a little bit more in line with solo, and there's your solution. "Punished for playing with friends!" If your primary goal truly is to have fun with friends, this need not concern you. Why should killers get destroyed, after playing as well as they're allowed to, vs SWF who play to win, just because you want to play with your friends?
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@nikodemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280391#Comment_3280391
what you posted is waaay more cringe than Bendy.
Sure.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280391#Comment_3280391
Why ist it cringe in your eyes?
Genuine question cuaee I really enjoyed it and think it's a good creppy story. Is it the art style?
It's the whole "horror game made for kids" shtick. I make an exception for certain FNAF games because they did it first and they actually take themselves more serious.
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We need an OG like The Suffering before we ever get that cringe crap.
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I'm all for it.
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Because those killers can actually play.
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Agreed except for RPD being destroyed. Still lose on there plenty, the same as Eyrie or farm maps. All these maps have too many safe pallets and hold W places.
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You tell me. That's one Silent Hill game I know nothing about.
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It's his time to down, and built-in counters. It feels like playing Deathslinger or Twins, where there's a slow animation or process for everything that you do. Have to press the button, go into the mode, move, set the guard down (while showing the survs exactly what you're doing AND not being able to see the survs for some reason), they show their own patrol range to the survs, they go "Aaaaaahhh!" (if they have line of sight), slowly move to the initial position they saw the survivor, and THEN they start chasing. If you hit the survivor, I guess you suddenly don't need the guard anymore, because it gets deleted. Besides that interaction, if you want to delete your guard manually, you have to go up and hit them (as opposed to simply pressing the button again). And then while they're chasing someone, the banner gets put down so they can (unlike you) instantly delete the guard and get speed/Endurance. Here's how that plays out: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxtTJ_zFOc8UR-nGTgcgd1UDZzaczn5weC
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@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280067#Comment_3280067
Not a lot, and if they do it's not by a lot, it's situational, or has very specific requirements.
Not that specific. Prove Thyself, 2 people are on a gen. Resilience, you're injured. Deja Vu, it's the first 30 seconds or 30 seconds after a gen's been done. Fast Track, other people get hooked. Hyperfocus, you hit a great.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279001#Comment_3279001
Eruption/Pain Res/Deadlock/etc. There are a lot of perks to impede gen progress.
They're far from infallible.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279928#Comment_3279928
The issue about that is that he can basically fully trap a location to the extend where the survivor can't get out... There is a clip of Otz doing that on Lerys stating that this is why he should not have all of them on hand from the start...
If he wants to throw the whole game doing that to maybe get 1 person, he can be my guest. Still should be a thing for those of us who want to play Trapper, not trap pick-up simulator. Otz has been in the game a long time, but he's not exactly down to earth, nor is he always right.
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Have all the traps start on hand.
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"I'm gonna play alright the whole game, but at the end, I suddenly don't have the faintest idea of how to get you off hook against an M1." The difference is it's the whole team that usually does this.
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Is bug.
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Keep playing the game normally?
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It's not that strong. It's like aura reading but weaker, since you can't judge the distance or direction real well, and of course the survivors can move before you get there.
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I guess they thought those perks would be OP if they didn't get those penalties? Otherwise, maybe it was just done out of random choice?
But this is exactly what I mean when I'm talking about killer perks/add-ons having penalties. These nonsense penalties are just a normal thing killers have to deal with in their perk/add-on selection. "You can't teleport with Hag, but her traps slow survivors down a little bit." and stuff like that.
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@BillsHere101 said:
The problem isn't the player or the knight, it's BHVR trying to turn this game into a competitive scene even though it's impossible. SBMM and SWF are major problems that can't be balanced whatsoever. Asymmetrical games were never supposed to be about competition. It's a asymmetrical game after all. It's either one side is the strongest and the other side is the weakest.
They can totally be balanced. The devs are already taking steps to lessen MMR hell so that good players aren't held back by bad teammates as much. That's just from team based matchmaking. Then there's the nerfing of OP stuff every time people say it's OP. What exactly makes balancing this game, or attempting to, an impossible task? No other multiplayer game is viewed this way.
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Just putting it out there, we have nerfed a lot of gen defense stuff and buffed/added a lot of gen speed stuff.
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@killer998 said:
He's honestly so bad it's ridiculous. He has to be one of the most survivor friendly killers they've ever released. I'm not saying that in a "Devs are survivor sided" way, I'm talking about his actual design itself can't contest the top level survivors. Information is power in DBD and he gains f all information but gives tons.
His power is not only awful, it's painful. You can't see the survivors but they can see you making the path, they can hear you making a path. The guards take too long to activate. since they can also hear and see you making a path on top of their activation the survivors are gone by the time you're done setting it up holding forward. They're slow af, they're dumb af. They get stuck all the time. They can see the guards auras as they're patrolling and the Path the guards are patrolling.
It's harder to do but they can also take the banner and get a speed boost and endurance.
The power is also clunky af. There's so many points where you're not allowed to use it. Critical moments like windows or pallets. He has to step back. It takes a hot second to start channeling it and it feels like the orbs a drop-down than a spawn in with the camera angle. You can get stuck on things when you're trying make a path and on controller at least let me tell you, it can be f'ing hard to get out of being stuck in a wall or object. It's like spirit phase, but he's drunk and has all the nerfs spirit mains have nightmares about at the same time.
He gets fat shamed at loops at times or in chase he can't fit through things. He's loud af as he stomps around.
He feels rushed for the Christmas sales and he's just obscenely weak overall. At the higher levels of play where swfs rule and survivors sweat non stop he literally gets nothing but hardcore stomped outside of camping. He's a good camper but that's it and that only goes to show how yet again, bad he is.
The only place he can be decent is at the lower ranks of play where most of the player base is. That can be the only place he can thrive. Where no one has a clue what's happening and are learning the game.
He CANNOT contest the top level of play in his current state. You might get the one game here or there if you're really lucky or the survs F up big time. But he genuinely can't compete with them.
It's like this for most killers.
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Like Pulsar said, he's one of the few recent killers who are fun AND strong. So people play him. There's no correlation between him and meta perks though. Killers just run those.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277946#Comment_3277946
Because some killer players are actually good at the game and won't get run for 2 gens. Not to mention map RNG happens, pallets get used and aren't available mid to late game, chases have to go to less preferable areas, etc. There are a lot of reasons chase times might not be ideal.
Right, so you're playing killer without Corrupt, you get your first down, and 2 gens don't go? What are your survivors even?
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I wanna say they just removed it for balancing, despite the map still being busted. I'm 99% sure the PTB of this reworked map featured breakable walls on at least one of the upstairs areas.
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I think it comes down mostly to quality of graphics. We'd need way more detailed/better shadowed models with a bit of motion blur as well.
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It's fine. Can killer have 1 decent aura perk? I can't even argue with people who say "ANY aura reading the killer gets is OP" because there's nothing there. They want Cigar Box and All-Seeing Blood (again) nerfed.
Like others have said, there's plenty of counters. Buffed Distortion, Shadowstep, Object to an extent, etc.
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@AetherBytes said:
Honestly, before I used to not care, but having been playing less and coming back now and then, it's extremely evident how downright disorientating the FOV is.
I believe it's "disorienting." I make the same pronunciation mistake all the time.
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It's to allow "skillful mindgames" from the survivors. Otherwise this wouldn't even be a discussion.