danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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Watchu mean? This game's appeal is that you can bully the killer. That's been the main schtick of DBD content creators almost since the game's inception.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283678#Comment_3283678
Baiting it out works usually I mostly gets dh:t when I don't do that. At pallet if your in right position and they expect you to lunge wait before hitting when they use dh cause the endurance only last 0,5s but the animation last 1s so if you lunge at right time you get them down.
Pretty demanding of the killer, don't you think? .5 second window or bust? What about what happens in the clip I included? That could theoretically happen near enough every time.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283603#Comment_3283603
B tier killers are usually good at something and pretty lacking in other areas. Clown is good in chase and lacks any map pressure or utility. Hence B.
He lacks everything. You can just pre-drop pallets and he has no anti-loop. No "just Bloodlust"ing with him either since it gets cancelled from using his power. His power can even give survivors a speed boost.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283665#Comment_3283665
And some survivor main would comment under this with yet another "just bait it out". If you try baiting/waiting it out near a pallet the survivor just puts the pallet down then lol. Got no choice but to swing and let them mend. If they just made it that after you use it, you can't instantly put a pallet down, it would be fair.
The "bait it out" argument has been done to death and it's faulty. It's the same as other situations where the killer can't make the right play unless the survivor first makes the mistake. And if they don't make the mistake? Killer can't do anything.
This clip perfectly describes this situation: https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxl_MQTl13L8WkXOg_JC04_-HoiGf-CZB_
Not even going into how dumb it is that the killer has to withhold their attack when in range.
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@Adaez said:
Yeah,its the only perk you cant counter,without baiting it.
Sprint Burst?telegraphed and counterable,same with every other perk,an exhaustion perk that can be used on demant without any condition when the killer is about you will always be broken.
Sprint Burst you also just have to take. You either let them get away for free, which is the "smart play", or you commit to a bad chase because they've already got that huge lead. Would like it be a bit more consistent with the telegraphed part, the "walking and then running away at the last second" thing. Somehow it seems the survivor always perfectly times it to where when you swing, it suctions your hit back to you or does the "swing around, not at, the survivor" thing like aim dressing does.
But when I try to do the same as survivor, don't know if it's because I'm console or what, the killer gets the hit as I'm Sprint Bursting. Same with Balanced and Lithe where going against it as killer it's virtually i-frames, but as survivor it's just moving fast and I still get hit.
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It just needs to go. You can't have a perk that's essentially a third health state and have it be balanced. Same reason people complain about Off The Record giving 80 seconds of Endurance. Dead Hard is basically unlimited Endurance, just used in a .5 second window.
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I'd rather have less spots for the P100 survivors to loop a single obstacle.
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"Nerf?!"
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What?!
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Reverse it right nowwww!
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Bar the 180-second gen suggestion, people, gens do need to take longer.
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Let me make a perk comparison. Pop and Pain Res give regression from getting hooks, which are gotten from downs. Yet almost nobody uses those perks anymore. That's because by the time you get the hook or the kick, the gen could be done.
Having Eruption activate on the down instead of the hook or the kick means that killer not only saves time, but they're also able to actually stop the gens before it's done. And that's only possible if they waste the time to kick the gen beforehand AND they get the down quick enough, because time to down in this game is a lot for most killers. Solo does not change any of these conditions I've mentioned. It's essentially the same perk.
What popular opinion claims is that, "It's unfair against solos." In reality, SWF is unfair against it, because it loses the small chance of the element of surprise since someone can call out "the killer kicked that gen!" That intuition and observation isn't absent from solo, but in SWF your teammates' eyes and ears are yours as well. So the script is completely flipped in this discussion. The perk isn't strong against solo; it's weak against SWF.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283600#Comment_3283600
maybe micro manage is the wrong term, i don't really know how else to describe it since he's pretty unique compared to the rest of the cast
Also using his guards to kick a gen prevents them from interacting with it for as long as they're breaking it. So if you see a Survivor on a gen which you know is about to pop you can potentially stop it by bringing either the Jailer or Assassin over. Carnifex breaks it too quickly which is why you reserve him to break pallets instead. Which btw, I think you're underestimating just how fast this guy breaks a pallet. It says 2 seconds on the wiki but it is MUCH faster than that
But there's no lethality in any of that. As long as the guards are so inconsistent in getting hits, Knight is just a glorified M1 killer, not the "no counter/drop your power at the loop/high B tier" guy he's made out to be.
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Still nothing to justify why this version of Freddy is "boring to face." What's more boring? Just falling asleep, or having to contend with dream snares/pallets and teleports as well?
I'm telling you, you undo the nerf, he still won't come close to being strong in the modern meta, because he wasn't even back then. That's just step 1. From there, you give him other buffs, like the very much needed qol change of being able to place snares, and not fidget around with it until it decides it can spawn somewhere.
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@Emeal said:
cause that would DESTROY anyone in the low MMR end of our community, right?
Because they should clearly be the priority.
It's not as if they're doing super well against Trickster right now. They wouldn't even feel the buff.
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Bruh.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Clown is consistently underrated IMO. I put him in B tier.
I think Knight is the worst killer in the game.
B?!
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At this point, Clown's time to down is better.
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@Shroompy said:
hes not meant to commit to chases, hes meant to micro manage.
Patrolling gens and being territorial (somewhat similarly to Trapper) by locking down an area and not really venturing too far from it is probably the best way to play him. His guards also cycle pretty well will each other
If you have Carnifex, commit to a chase until you get rid of a wall or pallet (which was made EXTREMELY fast this last patch) and get a hit. You can also plop him down next to a gen if you know for certain a Survivor is going to try to get his aggro. His hunt timer is twice as long as the other guards which is a great time waster
Assassin is up next and hes actually pretty interesting. You use him depending on what the situation is after getting a hit with Carnifex. If the Survivor cant make it to a strong set up, use him to zone them out to get a down. Otherwise, you want to place him down and then try to zone a Survivor towards him. Another way to use him is when 2 Survivors are grouped up. Plop him down to chase one and then you chase the other. Using the increased Hunt duration add on actually nets you hits quite a bit with Assassin, which wastes even more time thanks to him applying Deep Wounds. You can also use him to simply prevent a gen from being popped by ordering him to break it. Survivors cant repair it for the duration of the kick and it usually nets you enough time to get over there and chase the survivor off.
Then theres Jailer, you usually wanna use him right after the Assassin to lock down an area. If you see a Survivor, go after them. The Jailer will keep that gen regressing for a good bit while you chase. If that Survivor is staying in the area try to get them to drop a pallet or vault. Any guard will spot a Survivor if they make a loud noise notif within their detection range even with a LoS breaker or height difference. This works best with Jailer because of his increased range and reduced time to start a Hunt. Alternatively like the Assassin, you can order him to break a gen from a distance to prevent it from being repaired
The Knight aint easy, and from my experience against solid Survivors he makes games take pretty damn long. Hes definitely at least a solid B tier, al though Id still say its a bit too early considering yesterday and today were really the only days we could play him in such a stable state
What do you mean micro manage? Chase 1 person as an M1 and not even get a hit while the guard chases another person and doesn't even get a hit? You need the down at some point. Using his guards to kick gens isn't even worth it, since they don't apply gen perks OR the 2.5% regression. Carnifex can break pallets fast, but since when has that caused survivors to get hit before they make it to somewhere else safe? This is just an M1 killer with extra steps.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281583#Comment_3281583
Pinhead was hardly gutted. Engineers fang was absurdly strong and solve time ended up making him too oppressive against solo p,Ayers which he still is a lot of the time
The build wasn’t unique in a good way. It was oppressive and frustrating to fight against and honestly took pretty little skill to use
Maybe if solo queue got it’s much needed buffs then pinhead could get buffs but at the moment it’s not a good idea
Well let's just agree to disagree.
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@hex_uwu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282431#Comment_3282431
So you’re saying the counter to Eruption is to work on another gen?
Yes. If you know the killer has Eruption, he kicked the gen, and people are injured, work on another gen until he gets the down. Then it's safe to come back. Do that enough times, and you'll be able to do multiple gens one after the other because you split your progress.
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They're fine. They don't even hit the survivor when they're supposed to half the time.
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Probably. The likelihood of being able to use gen regression at all goes way down when it's a SWF, so I'd probably just switch to Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out, since nothing else is guaranteed.
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@Leguś said:
Overall, imagine a Perk that provides Self-Care with 2 stacks of Desperate Measures (28% but cut in half results in 14% speed increase. (49% vs 50% basically)), Botany Knowledge and, on Med-Kits, Streewise (because no Med-Kit effieciency penalty compared to Botany.)
Just... What.
I know, right?
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
Do like I did. If you see so many circle of healing perks, try to use shattered hope (generic perk for killers) so you go in a far corner of the map and destroy that damn totem :D
When I've used Shattered Hope, I've been able to use it maybe half the time, and of those times it didn't stop boons from going down on other totems. So there's basically no point.
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@ScottJund said:
It's certainly strong but it's been triple nerfed to the point of fairness IMO, what more do you want
How is it strong, but fair? When it's anything killer has that's strong, it's unfair.
Let's just agree that boons were a bad idea and scrap them. You can't balance a perk like this.
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@Moxie said:
Hag has been greatly nerfed with the meta shake-up. CoH is the main problem as Hag is very hit-and-run.
Corrupt being nerfed didn't help either.
Yeah I guess I didn't need that gen slowdown anymore, since I downed that 1 person.
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Besides the meta destroying her and the recent bugs, she has a very debilitating aspect of her teleport that makes it not work as intended, in that you not only lose all walking momentum when you tp, but survivors can movement exploit to trip the trap while also being out of range for an instant hit. How she's supposed to work, contrary to people who don't know anything about her, is if someone trips a trap and you instantly react and tp, you're supposed to get an instant lunge hit out of that tp. But you can't because of the stutter teleport + survivors exploiting to not get their cameras turned. Dredge has the exact same problem in that your hit out of tp isn't instant as it should be.
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I just know that all the best survivors still pick it over the other exhaustion perks, because it is the best one by far. And also that more of my matches than not feature it, and that those matches are twice as hard as the others.
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It should probably be a 3k. That can mean either that the killer did good and 1 person got a free hatch escape, or the survivors fought well and barely got 1-2 people out. Just make the killer feel like an active threat to survival, at least.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282444#Comment_3282444
strawman lol learn to actually be perceptive instead of blaming the game for not having aura reading 24/7
maybe just use lightborn if you think lights are these op
Still haven't responded to anything that causes any intelligent thought. I'm not gonna waste a perk slot on Lightborn just because these situations sometimes happen, uncounterable as they are.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282437#Comment_3282437
There will be situations where the surv goes down in a really bad place, and there's not much you can do to prevent the save.
But those are relatively rare. That vast majority of the time, there are viable counterplay options. I am not a god tier killer by any stretch, and I evade like 90% of flashlight save attempts.
And most of the times they are successful, it's because I was careless.
Now there will be good teams that coordinate flashlight saves, but those players are not the ones who will benefit from this change.
Not saying this is an every match thing for me, or that I can't also evade flashlight saves, but this is an uncounterable situation no matter how rare it is. It's the exact same thing as locker flashlight saves. You either go for the pick up and get blinded or you don't go for it at all.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281734#Comment_3281734
then it should be pretty easy to see the survivor coming lol complaining about flashlights is a selftell tbh
Even with the game's unreliable scratchmarks and sound? Used to be able to hear survivor footsteps and breathing, but that was too OP for the killer to have I guess. But even knowing that they're there, what do you do then? You can't "just hit them" because they're not stupid and will run to a nearby loop, and still have enough time to come back to flashlight save if you stop chasing them. It's an uncounterable situation unless the survivor makes a mistake, as usual.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281734#Comment_3281734
Hell, I chased off a survivor a good distance. Whet back picked up a survivor while facing a wall. The other survivor was able to rush back and get a flashlight save from side on and they weren't even in my FOV.
That's what I'm literally trying to explain to people. They say "just chase them off" "just quick 180", like they're playing dumb to think we haven't tried that already. You can't do anything against off-screen saves.
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@hex_uwu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281565#Comment_3281565
"It has the exact same counterplay as Eruption, AND it has no regression. You go do a different gen while yours is blocked, you work on it again when it's unblocked." Just curious, how is 'go do a different gen' the 'exact' counterplay to Eruption?
Because you're actually doing something other than grumbling about the situation. Can't work on that gen? Work on whatever gen you can whenever you can. That's assuming you actually get hit by Eruption (as opposed to Deadlock), which is way less likely if the killer hasn't spent a hideous amount of time kicking all the different gens. If anything, the killer is just getting back a bit of their hard spent time. Maybe they should get something for that.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281557#Comment_3281557
You said, and I quote, "The difference being that the survivor meta is whatever is the most broken, because for killer it's whatever is the least weak."
Therefore, you are implying that while the survivor meta was strong, and still is strong, the meta for killer was and still is weak. Therefore, I'm pointing out this argument is flawed in that the meta builds for the meta killers are, in fact, not weak by any means but equally comparable to survivor metas in that they are broken.
You then went on to admit that Nurse was broken, before asking us to think about average killer strength.
Average killer strength was never a part of this discussion.
The conversation was on the topic of the metas- the most powerful things for either side. Meaning Range/Recharge Nurse or Alch/Crow Blight with 4 slowdowns, vs Toolbox squads with boons, Hyperfocus, and pinpoint accurate communication. The topic was never about the strength of Ghost Face, or Trapper, or Sadako, or any killer and killer perks beyond the strongest things imaginable.
I was pointing out the flaw in your argument, that killer meta is the least weak while the survivor meta is the most broken. That is all.
It's flawed because you're gatekeeping what the argument is about.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281734#Comment_3281734
Then if you know someone is lurking for a flashlight save, chase them away and make sure your back is to them.
And if they catch you unawares? Well that's just a good play by them. Tbh i rarely get surprised with a flashlight save anymore. I usually hear the footsteps
The footsteps that you don't hear until it's already too late?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281732#Comment_3281732
If you know someone is nearby, you can hit them instead of picking up. And regarding pickups, a 180-turn should also do enough that the Survivor does not get into position.
Really, it is not rocketscience to avoid a Flashlight-Save, Flashlights are still the weakest Item by far and it was more like a Killer-Buff, because now even more Survivors try for Flashlight-Saves and dont bring Medkits instead...
It's never that simple. Come on. "Just hit them." If you could simply do that, killer would get a 4k every time. But you can't, because they're never far from a safe loop. They don't just go for flashlight saves expecting to get hit. 180s don't really help against these off-screen flashlight savers anyway.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281732#Comment_3281732
Why would you pick someone up int he open? Use that opportunity to slug and gain pressure while these survivors are wasted time hovering around you. If they aren’t on gens they are wasted time you can use to chase and down.
So again this is an opportunity for the killer to gain extra pressure but if they misplay they get punished just as the survivors do. It’s perfect risk reward
It's a misplay either way, is the point I'm making. You slug the guy, he gets picked up, all that time spent downing him was wasted. Where's the pressure in that?
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@solarjin1 said:
He not holding it hostage my guy but he also not trying complete the objective. So i understand your issue with it
Still not sure why a player would want to play in such a way. Sounds super boring.
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Actually that's wrong.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Flashlights are so easy to avoid for a killer with so much as a brainstem. This change just makes life a little easier for newer players to get used to flashlights. While they're still against inexperienced killers.
What about when there's no wall to look into?
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281706#Comment_3281706
The base killer changes and bt basekit were made separately since both were necessary.
The flashlight buffer was added to make saves more consistent for less experienced players and in high ping lobbies (which are pretty common thanks to vpn users). Flashlights rely on killers making a mistake to even get used and can literally cause a game ending mistake if used wrong
Agreed on the key/mori changes though. Don’t know what took them so long when the actual key changes were super minor
So a killer downs someone in the middle of the map where there's no walls to look into, and people with flashlights are hovering around, and that's the killer's mistake? You are right about it being game-ending though. Start the chase all over again.
The hatch change was literally a numbers change, which took a year of planning to come up with, and it still hasn't solved people escaping for free. Some nerf.
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As survivor? Any map with god pallets or windows, so I can waste an arbitrary amount of the killer's time without having any risk.
As killer, it's all about the same, so probably the new map for thematic purposes.
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Makes a lot of sense. Almost as much as nerfing Ruin/Undying when Counterforce and boons were just around the corner.
The whole "gens take too long" thing was so overblown when that change was first made. I argued, and still do argue, that survivors used to simply push through original Ruin and only occasionally complained about gens going too slow. Now that gens are going way faster though, 10 whole seconds is too much. Like wow, the match lasts a whole minute longer. "Actually, it's more than a minute because slowdown perks and yadda yadda 🤓." Despite the fact that we never factored slowdown into gen times en masse before; we just said "1 solo survivor does a gen in 80 seconds."
But yes, all the gen speed increase things completely mitigating the 10-second nerf, if not overcoming it. Do any combination of the toolbox build, Deja Vu, Hyperfocus, Object, Resilience, etc and you've got nuts gen speed. You want anti-tunnel or exhaustion as well? Cool, just swap out 1-2 perks for that. It's not as if you have to run 4 gen speed perks for them to go fast, like the killer has to run 4 gen defence perks for them to go slow.
And of course: feelings. I'm assuming people think killers just don't have any, since they've been conditioned not to care about the other side's feelings, out of necessity. There's no "I feel bad for tunneling that guy" when there's 1 gen left and 3 of the 4 hooks you got were on that same guy. Since we are balancing off of feelings though, I feel like SWF should get a gen speed debuff, or killer should get a base mini Pain Res/Pop.
Don't know why I do this sometimes, replying to someone's points in reverse. Must be a pain to read for some people.
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Because survivors can never not have something OP taken away from them, or have something strong given to the killer, without getting compensation of some sort. And not the monthly bp compensation BHVR gives all players when they screw up something in the patch. I mean massive balance changes. "Toolboxes lost durability? Must keep the same amount of speed boost, just compressed into a smaller time." "Keys nerfed a year after initial announcement? Must nerf moris a week after initial announcement." "Killers got slight kicking/attack cooldown buffs? Must give survivors BT/Guardian base." Most killers nerfs from the past 2 years though, survivors didn't even lose anything, like with the Clown nerf, Nemesis nerf, or Pinhead nerf.
Now this time it's "Guaranteed flashlight saves from lockers removed? Must appease the survivors somehow." And so that's where the crazy long blind window buff came from. Plenty of unfair flashlight saves were happening already, like from an off-screen survivor or from survivors having horrible timing but getting it anyway, or bogus flashbang blinds. But no, survivors need more ways to make the killer drop a survivor, and force them to go on another chase they don't have time for.
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I like Knight. I think a lot of the time, people let their hate for a killer's weakness or "boring"ness get in the way of liking how the killer plays. I really like Hag and Deathslinger, but I barely play them because I hate that they have massive problems that have been left unaddressed.
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@ImNotBobDylan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281529#Comment_3281529
Watch tournaments. Almost every killer does it, even against the most organized SWFs. See eg. below the Grand Finals of Swish's 2 where already at Game 1 the killer was not only tunneling but also basement camping at 4 gens (timestamped at 6:30).
https://youtu.be/fXlLWcQLufo?t=398
Game 1: Nea gets tunneled + facecamped. 4K (3 hooks out of first 4)
Game 2: Jake gets tunneled. 4K (3 hooks in a row)
Game 3 : No tunneling. 2K.
Game 4 : No tunneling. 0K.
Game 5: Nancy gets tunneled. 4K (3 hooks in a row)
Game 6: Claudette gets tunneled. 4K (3 hooks in a row)
Notice a pattern. Do you still think tunneling is a low MMR thing?
I watched the first 4 hours. Literally every single match where the killer won, began with one survivor getting hardcore tunneled and often killed at 3-4 gens. I say hardcore because for most of these matches the first survivor downed by the killer would get hooked 3 times in a row without anybody else getting hooked ONCE.
That was despite DS, which wasn't nerfed back then, and despite the survivors trying to body block, using For the People etc. The situation has not improved since then as far as I have seen.
Regarding public games, don't know about you, but I can guarantee a 4k in 90% of my games by camping+tunneling, yes. As you said, good survivors will try to prevent it by eg. hiding the tunneled survivor or bodyblocking. But it doesn't mean it's not the best strategy.
I've been told that tournament-level play is irrelevant, so this is irrelevant. Sorry, not gonna push that issue anymore.
It's literally just Spirit/Blight, and then random Twins. Of course they're gonna be really good at tunneling. Never said tunneling was a low MMR thing either, but someone else did. Tunneling is probably the least seen at low MMR because the killers don't know what they're doing anymore than the survivors do.
Same with tournament survivors, I question your survivors' skill level and their motivation to win, because getting a 4k should be nowhere near easy using any amount of tactics or good perks. Sometimes survivors will throw the whole game trying to protect that one guy instead of focusing gens and playing for the 2-3 man out. So those game's also inflate the usefulness of tunneling. I'm still not convinced that I can just plan to tunnel from the start, with any killer or perks, and simply get a 4k. Believe me, I've tried it.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
that is currently the core problem since 6.1. without fundamental changes to the goals, nothing will change.
It's been the core problem pretty much since the game's inception, with only survivor inefficiency holding it back.
