coppersly
coppersly
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@HeroLives said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/818073#Comment_818073
Really? I like the wide variety of maps and how it changes game play for either side due to xyz or with perks. Also an unpopular opinion I’m sure.
I agree, the game having multiple ways you play it depending on the scenario is the ideal state. But BL is way better than that, it makes ANY loop with a height drop EXTREMELY stronger than it has any right to be. If it wasn't so good on those kinds of loops we could incorporate it into the map design, but right now that's just not a good idea.
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@Peanits said:
To say that nobody asked for changes is objectively untrue. It doesn't take much searching to find a whole trove of videos, threads, and comments about The Spirit. I think you're missing the point of the argument, it's very rarely about how powerful she is, it's about not being fun to play against. You cannot tell someone that they're having fun when they're not, that's not up to you to decide.
If you want to argue that a video game shouldn't be fun to play, I'm not sure what to say at that point.
WHERE WAS THIS WHEN DISCUSSING THE NURSE CHANGES???
If anyone on the team responsible for this actually played Nurse at anywhere past yellow ranks they would KNOW these changes are not FUN or healthy.
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I agree with you partly; they have openly admitted they want to balance the game around a casual level. And that is a terrible decision because as you say those in high elo who know and can abuse the mechanics will AND DO every. single. game.
This is just another lie though because with that logic there is literally no reason to touch Nurse. However, they have shown this style of balance in most other areas though so maybe they were just vindictive, who knows.
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@MrPenguin said:
Not true, they made flannel common and strayed away from add-ons that mess with muscle memory (I believe there's only 1 now, and its a meme/bp gain add-on). Before it was play with no add-ons/always the same add-ons or it'll mess with your timing.
In other words they made her more consistent in a way that she's easier to learn and play now, and her training wheels add-on is not super rare anymore.
I will try my best to explain why all of these things are wrong.
ADDONS:
-Pocket watch is a direct offense in muscle memory since it alters a huge part of it (blink-chain window time)
-Torn Bookmark is arguably one too since removing a fundamental part of your power will change the way in which you use it
-Both of the range increasing addons change the blink charge time, another integral part of muscle memory
-3 "challenge" addons that won't be used since using Nurse and having fun is now the main challenge
She also is NOT more consistent since you can constantly lose 1 blink from the cooldown charge not being completed. If it SLOWLY charged while you were holding a blink this WHOLE REWORK wouldn't have actually been a huge deal, and it would've toned her down without leaving her so janky. This is also not easier to learn as you not only have to learn how to blink in general, you have to learn to do it without losing out to cooldown.
Her training addon was one of the actual good changes to come out of all this.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/817626#Comment_817626
Hawkins is a really good killer map imo. Unless everyone happens to have balanced and knows how to use it on Hawkins properly.
That's part of the problem that the game has in general.
It's okay unless they do/run 'X' then it's bad and unbalanced.
That is a terrible design to have throughout the entire game. SWF and BL are the 2 biggest examples of this. No map should be considered unbalanced if it's ONE SINGLE PERK that makes it like that. Either the perk needs to be changed or the maps do, and in this case I think aside from a slight nerf to the passive part of BL I think the problem lies mostly in the maps.
This was just shown when the best map pressure killer was knocked down. Her map pressure sucks now so she's like a lot of other killers; the big maps make it impossible to keep control in your court, if it ever was in there in the first place.
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Let's be honest, do you want a NEW map with the horde of problems every new one brings, or would you rather they go back and fix atrocities like Haddon and Hawkins?
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I agree, and I really hope they drop the cooldown phase they're going through.
Having a cooldown could be good if it didn't use it discretely (i.e, you don't need the full bar to use it, using it doesn't delete the whole bar if you cancel early, etc...) and actually felt interesting to use. Like you get different variations on the power depending on how much of the charge bar you want to use, or something like this.
Slapping a cooldown on top of old mechanics that you aren't going to update or change is just stupid. It was a stupid idea, the community gave PAGES of feedback with way better ideas than what we got. I was never against BHVR before this, just cautious. Now I just want them to ######### stop with the stupid "Be an m1 killer while you wait for your power!" bullshit.
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Before the changes I used to run
Tinkerer, BBQ, Discordance, and Surge.
With this you could just patrol/chase like normal but always know when a gen was close to popping or being worked on by a team. You could get so many grabs off gens with Tinkerer and at the same time defend/kick them with Surge without having to actually kick gens. I got VERY used to not kicking gens with this build, and it worked very well.
Now though? Pick a different killer.
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@anarchy753 said:
Nothing else in the game is as blatantly strong as Nurse and Spirit. Nurse mains still had the option to abandon ship in protest over to the next most broken thing. I reckon once she gets nerfed we'll see a healthier spread overall, including both of them.
You're missing the point: if it isn't fun no one is going to play. She was fun before, AND rewarding. It felt GOOD to play her and your hardwork of learning her and planning every move in game ad payoff. Now it's just a ######### chore to do anything at all.
Also, Nurse and Spirit might be (have been in Nurse cry) powerful, Nurse was MECHANICALLY challenging as well as mentally. Spirit is much easier to use mechanical wise, as she relies mostly on mental tactics to get hits.
Can you guess which one is way harder to learn and didn't need a god awful cooldown on it?
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@MrPenguin said:
My fiance is now playing nurse on console and destroying whereas before they struggled to down 1 person. She's fine balance wize in my experience. If anything she's easier to learn now with flannel being common.
Being unfun is subjective, but that's a whole other conversation.
I... honestly don't even know what to say to you.
If the only changes were negative and straight up limitations (no room for different kind of gameplay interactions like mind games, you literally just lost map/chase pressure and can blink less in a match than before just through pure math) so if someone is IMPROVING after the changes then the only logical conclusion is they've finally figured out the basic mechanics of Nurse. There is LITERALLY nothing in the changes that would have improved anyones Nurse gameplay. LITERALLY. NOTHING.
@nickoli2233 said:
My main issues with nurse is how stupid it can be trying to blink around objects. Trying a full blink around a wall? Just kidding there's a rock/tree/some dumb object who's hitbox is way fatter than the actual size and that blink is now worthless. First game as new nurse I played on Bloodlodge and it was dead zone after dead zone and with how punishing it is now when you miss a blink I just gave up and afk'd until the match ended. Dedicated servers don't help either when I end up rubberbanding or a survivor lags away from me. All in all a pretty good job so far.
This is a great point I haven't thought about. Remember when they actually buffed Nurse back in the day by allowing height control with blinks and they even tried to fix a lot of objects that wouldn't work with her power? Remember how awful it was to play on some maps as Nurse?
That's basically her ALL THE TIME now. They might as well have never have done the earlier changes if they were just going to throw them out later.
@Uxoricide said:
Agree, base kit nurse is no longer fun... and it was never op...
Agreed. It took skill, wasn't easy, and felt rewarding. Now all it takes is a massive amount of skill to even be functional and a HIGH frustration tolerance because that's all you're gonna get after the game punishes you for using your power like you're supposed to and punishes you when it fails and your out of a blink but nothing happened :/
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815018#Comment_815018
There is nothing to adapt. If you can't blink, you can't blink. There is no skill to gain from that. It's just a "limitation" placed upon the killer so good survivors are guaranteed to win now.
Exactly. There is nothing to adapt here. She didn't get any other play options, only limitations.
All you can do to adapt is not play her and find someone else more fun to play.
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I've updated the title because yes it was poorly worded.
She wasn't OP, just strong. There was always the option to change how you played and make her have to actually work for the kills. That was ALWAYS there. Now even a braindead potato can run a Nurse around for at least 2 gens, and it takes almost no skill to do.
And that's not even talking about just how UNFUN it is to play her now. Constantly being punished for using your power but you have to use it to even move around the map. It's just a big mess now, I don't know anyone who plays Nurse and enjoys the new gameplay of just walking and doing nothing every few seconds... after doing that by looking at the ground in fatigue.
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@SeducedByDaemonette said:
Translation from biased to english :
"I can't 4k every single game anymore cause I need to adapt , but I won't"
No I said it in pretty clear English.
She. Isn't. Fun.
I don't care about her strength, there were plenty of suggestions on this forum alone that had a better way to tone her down without gimping what made her unique and fun.
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@dfrenchiee said:
The most annoying thing about nurse now is that there are so many instances where you would have been able to end a chase or hit a survivor but because you are unable to blink the chase goes on for way longer than it should.
It feels so punishing to even blink around the map to find people as well. The devs seriously need to take the feedback they are being given, i'd hate to see nurse stay like this :-(
I agree 100%. Until she is playable again I'm doing as Cyote advised and playing different games. Ones that actually try and make the experience enjoyable...
@Kenshin said:
nurse got worse for sure but she is still very strong. but they killed the whole fun with nurse. no one likes to wait for the blink cooldown so unfun. another killer into the trash can for me.
Yeah no matter if she is still strong or not it doesn't matter; why would you play something so unfun, janky, and punishing? Before she was fun and rewarded skill. New Nurse isn't fun and is more of an endurance challenge before you punch a wall from frustration.
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You have me there. It should be "New Nurse isn't good. There was zero feedback taken into account and the fun factor that made her enjoyable has been completely butchered and is now janky as a car with 4 different tires."
@akbays35 said:
The reason why base Nurse was changed was because Nurse mains could literally triangulate her blinks and force a survivor into a box and the only counterplay was having an object in her blink vector or using an exhaustion perk within the blinks or predicting her blink and moving away from it. I'm honestly fine with the changes since I see Nurse actually functional on console and not insanely strong on pc.
There was always counterplay no matter how good you are as Nurse. They can always change course at the last second, they can fake running after LOS, etc. To say that they have literally no choice in the matter if the Nurse is good is a false argument. She could just read them very well and they didn't know how to change it up. If they did you wouldn't be getting downed in a few seconds.
Now, even if you are a good player who can read well it doesn't matter because the time it takes to actually catch up after finding them is SOOOOO long, and one single mistake means the chase is entirely reset. I couldn't do even a tenth of what I was able to on old Nurse with the new changes. It felt so janky, punishing, and just outright BAD. I felt like I was a weak B tier killer. My skill level was not nearly as important as the timer on the blinks constantly limiting your play potential.
When I first started the game I thought Nurse was trash because I had no idea how to use her. Now, after hundreds of hours of use in sweaty games where I could actually win, she feels as weak as she did the first time I tried her, and about as fun as someone who doesn't know that blinks are an integral part of her EVERYTHING. Now they hinder her and punish her for using them despite needing to. Reminds me of old Freddy where his power was worse for him than it was good.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813503#Comment_813503
Yes but her base kit was so OP. Her add ons needed changing and that's it. The time needed to master nurse is at least 3x more time needed than to master survivor or any other killer. The only OP nurses were Omega 3-blink nurse (gone now), 3+ blink nurse's (gone now), and GOD nurses ( few are at this level).
Base nurse was never op, she required a different playstyle such as breaking LOS, and juking. Not doing pallet looping (which is why your calling her base kit OP).
This.
When the chase music stops because they gained enough distance between your fatigue and the sprintburst... how can you defend that. Before if you were smart and had skill you could actually hit someone using a speedburst if you could place yourself in the right spot along their run.
Now you just lose chase after chase because it takes ages to even catch up to them now. Double back is at least x10 more effective and a serious time waste for such a basic move. Before you could juke a Nurse with it, now you just use it to walk along your path totally not afraid of actually getting hit anymore. Such a bad change I had to uninstall the game.
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It's unfortunate it's going into a very mechanically boring and unrewarding killer because it is very nice.
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@justarandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/803172#Comment_803172
You clearly know the business, how many hours you have on Nurse?
I have around 1k hrs just on Nurse (23k blink attacks) and it was really not easy to verse some sweaty swf groups. You really had to sit down concentrating and sweat aswell just to barely get your 2k. These teams are rare, but they exist and they dominate 99% of every match they go in.
I'm around 300h or so on nurse, maybe more as I have played on friends accounts before I bought the game.
Yes, the sweaty groups dominating every game they're in is a huge problem. Doesn't matter if they're rare or not it's the exact same problem people had with nurse when they get 4kd "every single game"
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@WolfPad06 said:
I've said it before, I'll say it again:
The base kit nerfs are not just affecting her chase potential, they affect her map mobility A LOT.
To even get to survivor before they can hide (as soon as they hear your TR) you NEED to use the blinks. You get there with no blinks, you go through fatigue allowing survivors a head start to run, hide or juke, and THEN you have to SLOWLY walk for 3.5 seconds before you get your 2nd blink back. Believe me, against any decent survivor you will need 2 blinks to hit them once you find them, and I won't even talk about what happens if they have SB or DH.
Alright, forget the competitive aspect of the nerfs, the new changes are not FUN for Nurse players. They make her feel sluggish and unrewarding.
Having 2 cooldowns is annoying and boring. I'm all for nerfing the Nurse's lethality at high skill levels, but this was done HORRIBLY and with no regard to how much it would affect the fun of playing her.
Yeah we can say it a million times but they can't understand :(
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@KuromiStarwind said:
Really strong SWF that know what they're doing? You might get 1 of them, maybe 2. They also might all escape very easily, based off the really good survivors I used to play as her pre-nerf.
She's still great, she's just really awkward and unfun to play, and the changes to her kit, while seemingly minor, are a very big nerf to both her chase potential and her map pressure.
Succinctly put.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/803172#Comment_803172
I’ve played Nurse and gotten a 4K, but I’m absolutely terrible with her. I play on console so it’s not easy to play her :/
I’ve seen many (even average) Nurse players who destroy a team. What do you mean she doesn’t have the tools to fight a good SWF team? They HAVE no tools against a Nurse. Pallets and loops are useless because she can just blink through them. Any halfway decent Nurse player can hit most of their blinks and end chases quickly.
Billy can get looped to an oblivion. He’s not great with an SWF team. An instadown means nothing when you can’t even use your chainsaw. He is one of the better killers but not at the very top.
Spirit is basically Nurse, but with a longer cooldown. It’s very easy to destroy a team with Spirit.
Hag isn’t great with OoO and flashlight users but I RARELY run into OoO and I won’t play Hag against flashlights so I never really have any issues with Hag.
It honestly doesn’t matter if they are an SWF group or not. Most players do not play sweaty, they’re just having fun with their friends. Most of the time you get laid back SWF group. Not tournament squads where you HAVE to play sweaty.
Any killer can 4k if survivors are not at an adequate skill level to overcome the killer, regardless of what killer they're using.
All you need to do is look at tournaments for this game. Look at which killers are picked any why. The top 3 because they're actually viable, the rest are not. I understand the devs want casual killers but they seem to be lacking on the competitive killers and bringing down one of the best without even slightly making the rest of the garbage tier cast better is a slap in the face to every high-elo killer.
When it gets so bad that there is only Spirit and Billy in red ranks (obviously other killers are played, but they go in knowing they are at a distinct disadvantage) and eventually just one single killer the game will show it's balance problems like never before.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/803112#Comment_803112
I do, i've played her plenty at red ranks. Waiting 3 seconds while moving at 3.85m/s is not a big deal, unless you're in a building with plenty of options to choose in those 3 seconds like Lerys. You lose exactly 0.15m/s*3s = 0.45m. Almost half a metre.
It mostly gives survivors some time to find a tile to mindgame. Previously you can dodge her and it doesn't matter because she starts another one right away.
I'll make one statement you wont like: YES, she finally gets punished for spamming her power. Now accurate and patient blinks are more rewarding. I like this.
She HAD to spam her power before because that's how she moved and if she wasn't constantly chasing after someone they could hide and be impossible to find before another gen or 3 goes pop. Slow and patient blinks are not fun or rewarding, being an m1 killer while you're not using your power IS. NOT. INTERESTING.
And I know you don't play her because the longer you wait to re-engage in blinks the more likely a survivor is to hide and get away, that's literally the entire reason she goes through fatigue. All the cooldown does is serve to limit her artificially and severely cut down on her chase power because you'll be spending so much longer per chase because of the constant waiting + LOS breaking that resets your chase/blink progress.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/802938#Comment_802938
How is Billy better? Nurse by far is still best. She’s just not STUPIDLY above the rest anymore. She can’t be looped. She denies all survivor defenses. If the Nurse player can hit their blinks then chases still end in a matter of seconds.
Let’s not even get into the Billy vs Spirit debate because Spirit is just behind Nurse in the tier list.
Billy is like #4 to me behind Nurse, Spirit, and Hag
Hag is strong but trust me she does not have the tools to handle SWF. Only Spirit, Nurse, and Billy did. Now only Billy and Spirit do.
I think a lot of players that say she is still top tier, fun, or SWF crushing strong have never played her or learned her and gone against a good team. Even before the changes a good team was never an easy fight, and you had to be on your best game to win. Now even if you're running meta everything you can still get rushed like any other killer.
@[Deleted User] said:
The problem I've had with the discussion is that it's being dominated by the people who don't understand how severe adding a cooldown to basekit is.
Non-Nurse players, and if we're being honest, the devs, don't have a good feel for just how hamstrung Nurse is against high level survivors when you give her a blink cooldown. This isn't an opinion thing. It's a math thing when it comes to distances.
Plus, adding a cooldown to blinks changes blinks from a game of 60% precision/40% prediction to 70% prediction/30% precision around many tiles. It's not 3.5 seconds. It's changing the basic theory behind how a killer is played. But we can't just ask the people who actually know how Nurse works at a high level.
On top of that, it made no sense to shotgun the nerfs and changes all at once. Rework the add ons and see how that feels. Monitor the performance. Then maybe adjust the kit if it still needs tweaking. This whole process has just been a cavalcade of stupid led by those who don't seem to know what they're tinkering with. I say that because the changes have done the opposite of what the devs stated they didn't want to do i.e. "mess with muscle memory", for one.
All of this. And on top of it, by adding a cooldown there is objectively less time in the match you're using your power, and it gets bigger the longer a match goes on which WILL happen now that Nurse is much weaker.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/802538#Comment_802538
Ok. Idk man, i'm not worried about Spirit, because they keep the core gameplay the same. She wont turn into a M1 loopable killer, but i'll wait out the ideas before making conclusions. They did a perfect job buffing spirit from her previous versions, so i think they know what they're doing with Spirits concept.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/802579#Comment_802579
How do survivors make sure, you can't blink? You lose 1m distance during that time, you still play the tiles as usual. Wether you blink 3s sooner or later doesn't matter wether you actually hit the blink. You always play the same mindgames with Nurse,
I'm going to stop you right there. It's obvious you don't play Nurse or at least not past green ranks. Having to wait an additional 3 seconds while being the slowest killer in game is a big deal. Remember how her power is essential for her movement? That extends directly into chase, she needs blinks to even move after a survivor. Having to save blinks and not waste them because the janky cooldown not only hinders her, it also saps the fun out of her when you are constantly punished for using your power despite needing to use it to even move effectively.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/802429#Comment_802429
Concrete answers for concrete questions.
You dont hit your blinks, since it only affects misses. Mistakes. Your own mistakes, that you can fix by getting better.
You dont want to balance this game for bad survivors, but apparently you want it balanced for bad nurses.
Just fyi, i doubt anything changed balanced wise about her as along as you're good with Nurse. They only raised the skillfloor. Go figure why you're triggered.
The skill ceiling was most certainly effected. You just can't travel the same anymore, nor are you as potent in chase. Even at the best level of play you HAVE to walk around a lot in a match as Nurse now, there's literally no way around it. And that means during those times survivors are making sure you can't use another blink because if you don't predict right you're going to waste SO much time. There is a definite ceiling with these changes and it is lower than before.
@Entity_Burger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/802469#Comment_802469
Old Legion had his bugs, but you can't think current Legion is at all decent. His power is a flat out joke. You can't even stop people from mending because the mend timer does not decrease in a chase. And pressuring people in increments is useless because the mend timer will not down them if they are mending.
He may as well not have a power.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/802471#Comment_802471
Oh, Nurse may have needed tweaking, sure. Her Skill To Kill Ratio was pretty much 1/1. The better you were, the better you did, and the sky was the limit.
But this is more proof of BHVR being terrified to make good killers; New killers start weak. Powerful Killers get beaten to death with the nerf bat under the terms 'tweaked' and 'looked at'.
It's pretty obvious that BHVR wants to keep the larger playerbase happy, and since there 4 Survivors to every Killer, this means that Killers get beaten stupid to appease lower skill Survivors.
I agree with you. They seem afraid to make strong killers at the moment, and seem to be hooked on the powerbar idea.
I really hope the next killer is strong and without a powerbar but we all know the chances of either are very slim right now.
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If it's a challenge where you can't have anyone else doing the gens... then how would they expect anyone to get it done outside of SWF?
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@Entity_Burger said:
Am I reading this right? The nurse now has a cooldown (which starts on fatigue), which means she has the longest possible time between blinks..and she did not get a movement speed increase?!
Did the Devs really think, in the middle of the freaking 3-minute-genrush meta, that a slow AF character with a 4.5 second cooldown (3.5 on the skill, 1 for the fatigue) is BALANCED!?
According to the devs on the latest stream they believe chases should essentially start over after getting a hit to give survivors a chance at escaping. What this does though is give bad survivors who didn't use counterplay an easier time, while also making though who do actually know what to do nigh impossible to find again without dedicated tracking perks and even then there is no guarantee they don't just disappear in the maze of L-walls you now have to crawl around because blinking would screw you over even more.
I've actually seen a way better suggestion on these forums for a continuous power-bar that charging a blink draws from instead of just a discrete cooldown mechanic. It would allow for a much finer control over your blinks while also not coming with the massive downside of making your gameplay all janky and frustrating. It also still limits her from doing a crazy amount of blinks in a row, a much better scenario than what we have.
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797300#Comment_797300
The problem the devs have is they balance for new survivors and don't realize they don't stay at that starting level so the higher rank killer suffers because of it. I'm on the border of red ranks and find it annoying
I think this is a problem for a lot of PvP games today. Developers are usually not that skilled at their own game, so they have to rely on data collection and whatever sources they use to determine what is working and what's not. But not actually playing at that level dulls you to the problems that are there and they can go ignored and unfixed for a long time.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/799823#Comment_799823
They first originally announced that they would only change add ons for Billy and Nurse. Then they announced that they would do slight changes for Base kit Nurse.
They will most likely do the same thing for Billy, announce that add ons are getting change. And then afterwards announce that they will do a "slight" tweak to his base kit
Maybe after all this drama and backlash they'll at least be more transparent about it and just say it's change instead of gradually admitting it?
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/799875#Comment_799875
R.I.P. the diversity for Survivors to face in Red Ranks than.
Like, that's this entire event... it's just Spirits and Trappers doing the lore challenges. The Trapper part is fine, it's good he's being used for once by people that don't use him at all...
But, again, the diversity during this event for facing Killers is like... 8 spirits out of 10, the other 2 is Trappers doing the lore, or an actual random Killer.
This is just a symptom of a larger problem facing DbD right now. We don't have many strong killers because casual is the design goal so at high elo where it's extremely hard to play killer if survivors are competent the killer diversity is really low. Like really low.
Nurse was obviously a killer that could do good no matter what as long as you could be skilled and they continued to not change their gameplay style to adapt to you. Spirit is just strong because she is able to fake out a lot of pallets and windows. Hillbilly is the next best and he's just got map pressure, sometimes a free down.
We need to bring other killers up instead of nerfing the strong ones down.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797380#Comment_797380
If I'm in FF, I'm ok with them running to another window, as more straight-running time advantages me.
Mind you, I'm not a several-hundred-hour Legion player, and I hover around rank 10-8. It's possible this would be less useful at higher rank.
I was running Bamboozle on Freddy for a while after his rework, and I only ever saw it directly help me like twice. It felt AMAZING don't get me wrong, but I never saw it in action a lot. I wasn't sure if it was working or not, but it felt like it was.
But after watching this video by OhTofu (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNh-1_3B-7w) I was convinced he had a point and it was better to run something else, unless of course you're doing vault master Myers or Wraith in which case it's still a great addition. But on regular builds I think it is not worth taking up a lot when compared to some of the stronger perks available.
I guess on a killer like Legion who can vault in FF it still might be good to combo with the power.
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@remoirel said:
y'all overreact so hard, no specific changes said or when they're gonna happen, but you're all already crying she's gonna be 'gutted' and useless.
Remember when Nurse players were overreacting to small changes?
Yeah.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/799584#Comment_799584
He needs a major rework, he is in a really bad spot.
I completely agree with you, I was just being pretentious about their cooldown and power meter trend the dev team is going through.
TBH with the lore of Legion being more than 1 person I would like to see their power somewhat actually reflect that, not just be a random guy running with a very not dangerous knife.
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I can't hide my snide attitude for this answer, sorry in advanced.
He already has a power meter, no need to look at him any further.
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They said they are still experiencing bugs that they want to iron out.
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Are you using only 1 blink to counter-act the cooldown so you can just blink constantly across the map instead of walking like an awkward taco like the changes encourage?
But wow that's.... so sad. They took one of the best map pressure killers and sank it like a rock. I really hope some dev sees this video and at least gets an idea of why this is such a bad change.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797344#Comment_797344
Thats one of the great mysteries. Who they pick for balancing and what they consider unbalanced. Lots of invested players would buff weaker killers first. I would be wiser and better in the long run. It would be even better, if they actually understand balance and played highranked games themselves. Instead of doing devteam internal games, where you have to respect your workmates. And having r20 playtesters who dont play the game as it is played in reality and balance them around their playstyle. PtB Ghostface and MoM was sooooo far off the mark for example. Almost a slap in the face for any killer player, that they consider that acceptable.
Nobody knows why they dont work on balancing killers with each other. Guess they just have different plans and not enough money to support that.
I like to hold hope they're just messing with us and they have some sort of grand plan that makes the game much healthier and enjoyable for all.
I like to hope.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797344#Comment_797344
Thats one of the great mysteries. Who they pick for balancing and what they consider unbalanced. Lots of invested players would buff weaker killers first. I would be wiser and better in the long run. It would be even better, if they actually understand balance and played highranked games themselves. Instead of doing devteam internal games, where you have to respect your workmates. And having r20 playtesters who dont play the game as it is played in reality and balance them around their playstyle. PtB Ghostface and MoM was sooooo far off the mark for example. Almost a slap in the face for any killer player, that they consider that acceptable.
Nobody knows why they dont work on balancing killers with each other. Guess they just have different plans and not enough money to support that.
I like to hold hope they're just messing with us and they have some sort of grand plan that makes the game much healthier and enjoyable for all.
I like to hope.
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@brokedownpalace said:
I thought Nurse was all about "muscle memory?" Play her enough and you'll get the timing down right without looking. And it's not like you need to stare at it for several seconds. A quick glance will do.
You do need to constantly stare at it while you're getting ready to blink otherwise you gave them even more chase time because you have to wait for your double blink just to catch up and then wait again to do a blink for hitting them.
Please PLEASE PLEASE play Nurse before you post stuff like this. If you do you'll very easily see what many of us are complaining about.
All they need to really change with this REWORK is just letting the cooldown be slowed instead of stopped while charging a blink. At least then it is usable again.
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That's a complicated and impossible to answer question.
If it was solely just playtime that advanced it you could get a number, but considering there are challenges that might not be completed every game that introduces too many variables to get an accurate number.
Some good players will be able to finish it quickly, while other weaker players might struggle to finish in time.
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I can see the fun of having challenges and such but ultimately this didn't change the game. We still use the exact same mechanics with the exact same objectives. Nothing changed but the way in which you enjoy the game. That's good! Don't get me wrong.
But I prefer new mechanics that update the staleness of the game. Cough generators Cough
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@katoptris said:
I normally use obedience on doctor thus rendering exhaustion perks useless.
It still does not disable the passive recovery from BL if I recall. It certainly helps but not as much as a decent map would.
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It certainly feels like some maps are way darker than others. I don't know if this is real or just my perception though.
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@VexTheHex said:
The SS Killer always viewed as the 4K Queen before the Survivors ate like a solid year or two of nerfs got nerfed... it's about time. Though personally I'd take Prayer Bead and OHKO Huntress nerfs first.
Let's be honest here, if you're not 4King pretty consistent with her now, the problem was you.
That's not true. When I faced groups who could actually play around her it was not an easy game. In fact many times they would escape with 2 because I spent so much more time in chase than I would against normal survivors who don't even attempt to play differently. Obviously these games were rare but by SWF rare is ok because it's not a majority of players using it :^)
@Mr_K I will look at it. Sucks the clips aren't working :(
@VexTheHex Survivors nerfs have been needed for the most part. Almost every time they get nerfed it is usually a gamebreaking aspect that is being abused up and down. For killers this is much harder since they're all actually different and therefor have different interactions in the game as opposed to survivor skins all being functionally the exact same.
Of course there are imbalance issues on survivor and killer gameplay, but since the killer is always alone and survivors can abuse anything x4 the nerf hammer has to come down more often on survivors than killers. You can also nerf a killer without ruining what makes them enjoyable.
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@Salty_Pearl said:
Agreed, she didn't need a rework. I wouldn't mind them making have a longer fatigue or reducing her vision after coming out of fatigue. Her addons are so weird now and don't make any sense.
Yeah I would've been fine with a black screen and no sound if they really wanted to encourage the stealth aspect of her counterplay. I really don't enjoy the cooldown and m1 style they applied to her.
And yeah, some of her addons are actually well designed, but just as many are in need of work and some outright are just bad and will never be used... kind of like how they wanted to change that with the addon pass. Hmmmmm.
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That link isn't working for me, unless I have a time machine. Thanks Twtich.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797420#Comment_797420
It is optional.
Anyone that believes it’s absolutely essential to have certain perks, or certain killers to win is deluding themselves.
The ability to outwit your opponent and make good guesstimates is what counts in this game.
And you're certainly right, to a degree.
When survivors are coordinated and efficient you have to rely on them making mistakes to even stand a chance at winning. It's part of the whole problem I have with balance at high elo. Sure you can try and influence the match but if they want a 5 minute game those gens are going to go whether you want it to or not.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797186#Comment_797186
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797186#Comment_797186
Now, I could be mistaken, but that doesn't sound very positive.
You got me on the 2nd post for sure. I honestly forgot the thread I was in!
I still stand by the first post though. I DID enjoy Nurse, she is what kept me coming back to this game after I would quit from the rage. Now I have one less thing bringing me back.
OT: I enjoy the entire aesthetic they've created with the killers. I really enjoy some designs (Nurse, Hag, Spirit) and that doesn't even extend to their powers (which I do like though). I just really enjoy their design from the ground up.
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@teegyl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797488#Comment_797488
The shards are only there to pressure people into buying killers.
Its not there for players to have another option. it's there so when people rightly complain about having to pay for this nonsense they can say "But you can earn it for freeeeeeee"
Even though by design they dont intend you to buy killers with shards
I can only answer with an anecdote. I personally have 8k shards saved because I don't need the shrine really and I have all content unlocked currently. When the new killer drops, if I'm still playing this game.... I will buy it for free!
I see what you're saying. It is obviously geared towards pushing you to pay for it, but you're already grinding by just playing the game, and getting a currency passively with no downsides is a LOT better than a lot of freemium games.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797492#Comment_797492
Spirit is next. They said it on todays Q&A stream.
Can you get a clip of it or the timestamp? Peanits said they had no plans for her but that was a while back.
@[Deleted User] said:
so theres 2 killers at red ranks now? fun.
Everyone is right, you can still play her in red ranks... Just don't expect to have fun.