coppersly
coppersly
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@Warcrafter4 said:
Given how much the developers seem to want to forget the nurse exists...
I doubt any exist or will ever exist.
Yeah that's a good point. But since she's in the next Tome there's hope they'll have a flashback of her for a second and do something helpful or interesting for her?
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@Thrax said:
I'll be a one man human centipede if that happens
For the sake of humanity and fun in this game again I implore you to let me add more legs onto you.
@ALostPuppy said:
DbD is one of the least toxic gaming communities out there. Of all the communities and games I've been a part of, this one has been the best so far. In general, people are more nice than they are not. Using perks, or playstyles or insignificant things such as clicking a flashlight are not toxic in the slightest and people need to grow up. Actual toxicity is quite rare. The only reason why forum and Reddit people consider this game to be so toxic, is because you're on here looking at the countless posts of people complaining about players camping, tunnelling, using DS etc. when they make up a VERY small percentage of the actual playerbase.
I disagree tbh. I know there are people who are genuinely nice and try to make the experience enjoyable for everyone but I feel like they're a minority, a very small one. I'd argue the toxic part is a minority too but certainly larger than the latter group.
Feels like most people playing the game are bots tbh tho.
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@lagosta said:
Nurse is fine. If you want advice on how to play against her, play as her. You will learn by watch what other survivors do against you and also see by yourself how to exploit her issues.
Nurse is not fine she needs serious QoL and QA fixes.
Also her addons are straight up garbage except for like 4 of them.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1814760#Comment_1814760
That could still be problematic too.
What if the number of adept Lauries with baby teams is greater than the number of SWFs on comms? And those SWFs with OoO don't have a 100% Escape rate.
Again, OoO would look like it wasn't a problem - I mean, everyone died the majority of games, so clearly OoO is still a perception problem, right?
This is the reason they need to talk to their Fog Whisperers about balance decisions.
Obviously don't treat their word like gospel, but, like, they have people that they can talk to with thousands of hours of experience with both the community and the game at high levels of play.
But, for some reason, instead of talking to them, they just ignore them.
Like, why!? You have resources available to you BHVR! Use them, please.
That's true. And yeah it's a problem PvP games have had since the dawn of time and will probably have when they end. We can always hope though right?
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@NomiNomad said:
But it has a low survival rate! So clearly, it's okay!
Object is such a unfun perk, that enforces tunneling most of the time. I don't know how they defend such an Anti-Fun perk because "it has a low survival rate."
I'd argue it has a lower survival rate because of the perceived need on the killers part to tunnel or get destroyed. I think better metrics for measuring how strong it is is to see the entire teams survival rate with x amount of OoO's. If only 1 person is dying and it's the OoO that makes plenty of sense and still backs up the narrative that it's incredibly OP. If the entire team is dead... then it is a perceived issue but I think we all know it's not....
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pffft everyone saying Nurse is lying
If you're a hardcore ride or die gamer who loves a challenge and masochism then yes she's playable addonless.
If you like enjoying things and not receiving constant pain then she most definitely requires addons now.
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Honestly OP just wait for the Nurse to encounter a game-breaking bug and you're good to go. It's almost guaranteed these days.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804233#Comment_1804233
Both you and Mooks are cut from the same cloth. You both think that if gay people aren't seen everywhere, despite being a significantly small % of the population, that everyone is homophobic.
So according to you we should only have statistically accurate representation in everything?
Hope you're ok with seeing a lot more diverse casts including gay people because straight white population is set to become a minority in the global population buddy.
https://infogram.com/race-of-the-world-population-1go502yg18k62jd -
@MythMage said:
I mean, true, but at the same time, the entire Bloodweb system wastes billions of BP on stuff we will never ever use, so nothing new.
But now one of the most expensive things in it is worth about as much as the cheapest.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804602#Comment_1804602
Some people did that. Now everyone who brings one will as they have no other function.
I kind of see it like the opposite, people will bring them in and forget about it if they aren't tunneling. By the time you've gotten to that legit 3rd hook kill that game has progressed quite a lot and you'll probably be focusing on something else to remember you brought a mori.
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@MythMage said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804579#Comment_1804579
seems like the only Killer is was actually good on was Pig, and that's because she could activate it while crouched, essentially giving you an instant ambush with no sound queue.
I never experimented with them, couldn't think of any good synergy.
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@MythMage said:
Aw, that's dumb. Ah well. I only had like 54 on Clown and 31 on Legion, and it's ass on both, so I really don't care lmao.
I hope we can at least use them in custom games
I used it on Nurse one time and it was ######### awful. Never again.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804487#Comment_1804487
Yeah that's how nerfs work.
Yes that's the most basic understanding of it. Most of the time a straight up nerf is not healthy for the game, enjoyable for those players, and shows that your design is weak if all you can do is change numbers. A good change is to weaken the power of something while giving it more utility or uses outside of what it originally did, or does something unique extremely well.
The nerf did none of this.
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@Zaytex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804446#Comment_1804446
Hinder you more than help you?
I'm sorry but you're talking out of your ass right now. Mori on death hook still lets you ignore DS or the survivors trying to pick the downed survivor or stop a normal third hook.
Mori's literally do not hinder you in anyway, you're just overreacting.
Fair. I thought that was poorly worded. But that DS argument is baseless. Any good survivor will now just use DS on the first hook every time because it is guaranteed value since you know they can't Mori you.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804446#Comment_1804446
If you thought about it critically for a minute, as others in this thread have already done for you, you would see there is still a use for moris.
You can stick to your knee jerk reaction, too, though.
I've already pointed out everything it can do now. It's just like Nurse's nerf, there was nothing new to look at or use, it was purely limiting the scope of capability. Moris are purely worse than they were before. They do NOTHING that they didn't before, and now they do even less.
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@NurseYourWounds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804423#Comment_1804423
I have a counter argument for the nurse nerf, but I shall create another thread for that for another discussion haha.
In regards to spies, yeah... I can't believe I never ran it before!
Yes Nurse discourse is best for another thread.
I used to run no tracking perks and did ok but after dumping Surge a while back and putting on Spies I've never looked back. It's help me find so many survivors I would have never by myself it's insane. Even if it only goes off once in a match (highly unlikely) that's sometimes enough to start a game winning snowball.
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@brokedownpalace said:
If you needed a mori to 4k you were never good.
I agree. If you read anything in this thread you'd have come across this conclusion.
@Zaytex said:
Mori's being strong just promotes toxic and unhealthy gameplay from both sides.
Now, they still add some element of power to the killer, but aren't oppressive to survivors and are what they should be, a fun addition to the killer's arsenal.
Not something to destroy every single survivor you come across.
I disagree. Before yes it was oppressive, but now only saving you walking to a hook or a pick-up save is not good enough. It also completely undercuts what makes PH unique.
It went from being a fun offering (too fun lol) to being an offering that is going to hinder you more than it helps you.
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Spies is an awesome perk for Nurse for lots of reasons you listed. Especially the sudden appearance in an area frightening most survivors and causing them to run trigger a crow and telling me where they are even if I had no idea they were somewhere nearby.
Also the recharge nerf is significant. You blink >50% less than before without both CD addons.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804253#Comment_1804253
"It requires you to chase someone, down them, hook them, and come over to a non-regressing generator."
Oh, it requires you to play the game normally as if you weren't even running the perk? Darn, takes so much effort to use PGTW.
That's not the point, that's part of what makes it a healthy perk actually.
What I meant by that is it takes time and multiple actions before you can actually use it. BNP require you only have it equipped and are at a generator, and can last forever until used.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804190#Comment_1804190
PGTW - 25%
BNP - 25%
PGTW can be used on multiple gens, I don't understand how PGTW doesn't directly defeat the effect of a BNP.
It requires you to chase someone, down them, hook them, and come over to a non-regressing generator.
BNP can be used whenever you want and all at the same time potentially.
But what I'm really trying to get at here is unless a gen is under 25% progress by a kick you have gained value out of it even with a PGTW kick. Even if the gen has 1% left after that kick, that's 1% more than it would have had if you weren't using the BNP.
Of course that's all barring you used BNP entirely plus a few seconds+ before the PGTW kick.
EDIT: They're not massive value like they were before but before they literally broke the game beyond balance. Now they're just strong boosts which is way healthier than a decisive gen finisher.
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@Komi said:
Now the mori will allow you to skip hooking a surivor once, rather than twice. Only reason I can fathom is to give killers enough bloodpoints to avoid bronze emblems???
This also makes Myers/Pyramid Head very interesting killers now, having unique kill events. Something I hope BHVR adds to every killer, maybe, please?
Myers gets some use still out of them, PH literally only gets use out of a Mori now if the survivor isn't affected by Torment. His Mori is longer than his kill animation, it's actually a negative in that case.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804123#Comment_1804123
one kick of pop counters an entire bnp, and we all know how popular PGTW is, it's almost irrelevant to even use BNPs.
It's literally not though. Even if they kick it you're still better off than before if it even has 1% progress left.
@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804139#Comment_1804139
Survivors can only get 4 man escapes with a key if they finish all the generators. In which case the killer already failed to pressure the survivors and prevent them from completing their objective.
Yes this is true, but it can still happen and they still completely avoid a part of the game (gates) like killers did by tunneling off of 1st hook.
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@notlonely said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804097#Comment_1804097
That's a nice idea! I didn't actually think of just adding a power to each survivor but more of a base kit feature that could make them unique to their lore. I'd say either what you suggested or maybe like a small bonus. For example; Claudette is based on healing, so why not make Claudette's base healing speed 10% faster than any other survivor, but her generator repairing speed slower?
Thanks! But the reason they're not touching number passives like that is because even though it is just a small advantage it's better than say David's potential bonus being crawl 10% faster. There's almost no comparison between which is a better one to have, and now you're at a disadvantage if you personally don't want to play as that survivor with the best/most useful passive.
Now something like 3% might work. It would encourage picking the most optimal one but at such a small number it shouldn't affect the balance too much.
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@Rizzo said:
The mori change was easier to make, since it's basically just a change of a condition. I believe nerfing the keys requires animation changes and/or addon changes, that require much more time.
But there's a drastic power difference between these 2 items now. It's nigh useless for killers but keys can still be 4-man escapes for survivors with minimal effort. I'm not saying they're equivalent but not touching keys at the same time is a very bad idea and extremely unhealthy for the game even for perceived reasons. Now everyone is going to be using their keys as much as possible so they don't lose out like killers did with Moris, and now killers have even less response to it.
Great change.
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@notlonely said:
I only see complains but no solutions. What would ANY of you have done instead of this? Moris are now borderline useless, I agree, but they couldn't just leave them to be as OP as they were.
I've seen plenty of interesting suggestions and have worked on one with someone before.
Make it so you can't Mori someone fresh off of a hook until you've hooked someone else. Very simple, leaves the power of a Mori mostly intact while completely gutting the tunneling factor, and falls in line with rewarding a killer for playing and hooking.
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@notlonely said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804025#Comment_1804025
It was licensed btw. Also many survivor's power's are dependant on items that you can also find on chests. I do think that survivors in DbD should be more than just skins though...
I really don't see anyway where each survivor has a unique trait/power without a meta forming and invalidating a large portion of them.
Except for one idea I have: You get 1 random perk from their teachable in addition to whatever 4 you run. Can be the same perk you're running in your build so you can't cheese a free perk by running the other 2. Still creates a meta but at least it's RNG.
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I wouldn't say it's proof they like survivors more, it's more like it's proof they don't know how to handle balancing designs and a coherent timeline.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803651#Comment_1803651
Nobody said anything against this though?
In fact I'm sure there are some cool designs that could be made with a disability at the center of it.
Blind or deaf killer is an easy go to.
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@Kebek said:
It exists so that survivors can enjoy cool animation.
Making them activate after 2nd hook is such a lazy change that doesn't even fix the tunneling issue.
Yup core issue is just band-aid fixed and killers don't get any real value out of it. Classic.
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@Brhoom said:
''you just tunneled each person off of first hook for easy 4k. That's scummy and not fun for survivors with very little counters outside of the sweat meta.''
And that's why it got nerfed.
No one waits they hooked all survivors and no one didn't tunnel.
Survivors aren't npcs, they are people trying to have fun in the game as well, and old Moris were anything but that.
I would avoid tunneling with it if they weren't toxic. I really only used it for venting or for punishing toxic people. Can't do that anymore :(
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@TheWarNung said:
The point is that it's a unique animation. I don't personally care for them, but a lot of people really seem to like earning and watching them.
They still also negate DS, and I suppose they might also save you a few seconds in hooking people. In a game where players are so optimized in the highest ranks, saving a few seconds in a tight match isn't to be sneezed at.
@xenotimebong said:
You can tunnel off second hook instead of first with no fear of DS, so while it’s weaker, it’s not like it’s totally useless. Being able to get a tunnel kill at a crucial time can be the difference between killing 2 or 3 survivors and killing none.
It’s also now a soft counter to exit gate DS.
It doesn't negate DS if they have an opportunity to use it before you can use a Mori...
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@Hoodied said:
PH's secondary kill is faster than his mori (2 seconds long I believe)
Oh so it's actually negative value out of a Mori? oof.
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803646#Comment_1803646
I don't agree with that. To me looping is the most fun part of the game, as both survivor and killer. It's pretty much the only game there is in DBD, honestly. Otherwise it's hiding and holding M1 as survivor, or holding W mowing down helpless survivors as the killer.
Against a good nurse, it's really less to do with your skill as survivor and more how good the nurse is. It's the same problem I have with Spirit and Deathslinger.
The counterplay is holding W, breaking LOS, double backing if she charges a blink too long, and hoping she misses. That's really it. And good nurses hardly miss. Though fortunately I only see a good nurse maybe once a month if that.
That's where I fundamentally disagree with you. The game should have more elements than pallet looping. I'm ok with a lot of killers having to deal with it, but there should be killers like Nurse that make you use a different part of the game. If all you do is play the same style no matter the killer what's the point? That's boring and not diverse at all despite different killers.
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803623#Comment_1803623
That's why it was a nerf. Pre-nerf there was basically no penalty for missing blinks. You could miss like 2/3 attacks and it didn't matter at all because they never got any distance on you unless they were in a particularly strong building. And the lunge was still long so you just landed in their general area and got a hit. And let's not mention the busted add-ons like 5 blink or omegablink.
Being punishing to play should be the penalty for ignoring all the game's mechanics on a high mobility killer.
I'll agree 5 blinks and omega were too strong, but her base kit was fine. I had plenty of survivors making a fool out of me pre-nerf. It was never Nurse that was the problem, it's mostly to do with survivors refusing to change their playstyle to accommodate anything but ring-around-the-pallet.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803608#Comment_1803608
For Buffalo Bill and Leatherface sure they might fit. Not really as transgender but maybe as queer or something. But pedophiles don’t fit, for obvious reasons. Them being killers is another thing, I do think that they also should consider creating LGBT killers, don’t exclude them from this just because killers tend to be bad people. LGBT should be treated just as straight was treated before in the game.
I looked Dean Corll up, don’t worry, you can’t disturb me that much. He wouldn’t fit just because he was a real human being and BHVR said they would not add those ever.
They also don't have to have been bad people to become killers. Nurse was pretty chill but slowly lost herself over time. Yeah it's the token tragic backstory gay character but at least it's better than nothing.
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
The base kit changes were completley unnecessary and part of the reason I don't play nurse anymore.
And the changes don't make it feel anymore 'skillful' to use it it feels more like an annoyance I constantly have to remember instead of a mechanic I work with.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803574#Comment_1803574
Who are you to say whether or not my needs are satisfied?
And relatability isn't some "simply human fact." I LITERALLY do not care if the characters are all lesbian leprechauns.
Your representation needs. I don't know if your actual hunger/boredom/thirst/shelter needs are being met.
What I'm trying to say is it's extremely easy to not care when your representation saturates the market and the culture you live in. If you didn't have a horde of relatable characters you would probably feel less apathetic on the subject.
It's almost exactly like black people and the civil rights movement, only this time you can't so easily identify them by skin color. They were a "minority" but still need representation, good characters they can relate to in media to know they aren't thought of as lesser.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803563#Comment_1803563
I couldn't care less if there were no straight white males, *I just want the game to work.*
And don't throw around the word "bigot". It doesn't help.
Honey I can promise you that's not true. Lie to me and others all you want, but you can't deny that simply human fact of wanting relatability.
And we all want the game to just work but that's exponentially harder than writing up another character.
And it's a very bigoted/close minded thing to not care about other groups of people when your own needs are satisfied.
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@MadLordJack said:
Her counterplay doesn't exist if the Nurse knows what she's doing, and if she doesn't then I see no reason to use her as a barometer for what can and cannot be done agaisnt a Nurse.
Maybe out in the open. If you have anything that can break LOS it's not a guaranteed hit, there's literally a layer of RNG you've created as survivor.
Just because it's hard or inconvenient doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but Nurse haters can't seem to wrap their minds around that concept.
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@Mew said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803394#Comment_1803394
it doesnt matter to YOU. as a gay man myself, id like to see someone that i can relate to in a game i like
is it required? not really, but having someone i can relate to just feels nicer. this is why people were crying tears of joy when Elodie was released, since to a lot of people that was the first character in a game that represented them in a game.
It's only important that I have representation of my perceived 'normal', everyone else is just SOL.
-bigots everywhere, probably
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It really comes down to this:
Straight and cis people have literally billions of relatable characters ranging from well written to ######### trash pieces only included to sell a romance plot to relate to and see themselves in/across.
All we want is a little slice of that. To see a relatable character to yourself on T.V. or in video games, movies, etc.
It doesn't need to be all the highest quality, best written characters the Earth as ever seen either, normal characters that exist simply because they belong to the world are good enough when they aren't shoved in your face to meet a quota.
How many games are there were you play a gay male lead? Who cares if it's never brought up again or shown he's gay in any way, it's just nice to have that relatable trait shared.
When you have so many you're drowning in it it does not seem very important, but when you've been deprived of it you see it very differently.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
Coup de Grace forces you to go for quick attacks only if you don't want to insta-waste the token. Most of the time I never found an avenue in which it could be useful because most loops are too short to prevent the Survivor from getting to the pallet anyways. So instead of getting bonus lunge range, I was reduced to only quick attacks.
And even then, it can be Dead Harded.
I wanted to use it on Nurse because extended blink lunge attacks sound orgasmic but with how often you lunge with her power anyway and it only activates 5 times uncontrollably (even paired with Tinkerer for a general idea on when it will get a token) I figure I'll either waste the lunges or they won't help me in any way.
Sad because it's a really cool idea but too balanced to be of any use.
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Or the 0.1% club for survivoring with Elodie and her perks...
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1798393#Comment_1798393
How though?
Trophy/achievement percentages are based off of the know total player base count. It doesn’t matter whether those are players that played 1000’s of hours, or less than 1 hour. Of that total player count (at this stage) only 0.2% of the player base have acquired the Adept Twins trophy.
I think what's he's trying to say is that because less than half of the accounts considered for the achievements stats have raised their rank by 1 or get to level 10 with any character, meaning they haven't played basically at all and should not be considered for the achievement numbers.
So your 0.2% is actually quite higher than that with half of the data pool gone.
EDIT: Also you should consider that the achievement rates on DLC, even the semi-FreeLC, will probably be lower since there is another paywall to get over before you can complete them.
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@keygun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1796872#Comment_1796872
It is frustrating, but the goal of one side is to punish the other side.
Not trying to be mean, but the game is about killing and death...
Were you really trying to make friends?
I'm looking to have fun. You can have fun losing. I don't have fun even when I win.
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I don't know why I even play this game anymore. Everyone that plays it only does so hoping they ruin everyone else's experience. It's so draining.
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Plague is the definition of an m1 killer imo.
Without using her 1 free fountain, once everyone is sick all you can do is m1. m2 does nothing for you at that point. Yes it makes them easier to down but you're doing nothing but m1ing them.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1794369#Comment_1794369
It would also make developing perks easier because they wouldn't have to think about 3 different versions.
But i guess we won't see any significant changes anytime soon (probably 9 or 12+ months) considering how they haven't any plans for it at all.
Such a shame,because the grind is one of the main issues for newer players.
It's not even like it'd be a challenging thing to do. Oh well I guess :/
@CashelP14 said:
Personally I'd like them to implement something new. Every 25 levels up to Devotion 1 gives you a free perk unlock token. This means you can unlock 1 perk for free from any character at the expense of this token.
This would be an interesting idea to help new players. It should work for any perk even DLCs you don't own (BBQ/DS)
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Million threads on how/why we could do it. Best one I've seen it just eliminate perk tiers.
Less text clutter, easier to understand, and less grind x3. Win win win.
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I'm not quite sure what you're saying tbh.
I'd be down for a change like Nurse where you place a portal down then pick a direction and hold the button down to extend the location of the 2nd portal until you let go. It would let you set up portals across the map without actually having to walk there first if your timing is really good.