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@drmcsleepy410 said:
OTR, Tenacity gutted even though the anti slug anti tunnelling patch was scrapped.
Another overturned ghoul 2.0 killer that can vault pallets and get easy double taps.None of the gen regression perks like pop, pain res getting the planned nerfs but the OTR nerf went through meaning it was intentional.
Y’all get crumbs every update but still continue to queue up. It’s honestly courageous and sad at the same timeWe arent. Two of my friends who still played have either uninstalled or swapped to killer. Another friend was open to trying the game via xbox but i talked him out of doing survivor because this would be the WORST first taste of a game ever (no wonder they couldn't keep the fnaf chapter playerbase in the game). I am only playing killer right now. You could not pay me to play survivor after this update. Were the memes true and rapture was last Tuesday (if ya know ya know)), and the price to heaven was playing one survivor match. I would have said no and doomed my immortal soul.
Come tomorrow when silent hill F releases. I am not going to be playing this at all. And once BF6 releases…well ill probably just uninstall until they replace this balance team. If my friends wanna play with me…well its gonna have to phas or something else because there is no way im even looking at the survivor role. I might put a black piece of tape on my screen where it says "survivor" in the main lobby so i don't gag.
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with the exception of two games. I have only seen hard tunneling. Best advice. Uninstall or swap to killer. They arent going to do anything about these perk changes or system changes. especially since…as usual….there are already a few game breaking bugs. like one that let you walk above the map
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@MashedBroccoli said:
uninstalling is the best anti tunnel you can get until bhvr stops catering to killers and gives us the anti tunnel they promised. Zero changes, we deserve months of data collection before adjustments. You know like what they said they do when it came to the ghoul.
Ive never been so close to uninstalling this game, and I genuinely might do that and join the group of friends who ONLY play during 2v8.
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crazy how they announce an anti-tunnel update. Back out on it and in the update that WAS supposed to be anti-tunnel they butcher OTR and allow them to see hook states. I genuinely cannot understand the logic. Like the balance supervisor or whoever is very clearly not who should be in charge. This is just awful.
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only thing you can do is swap to killer. That's what i did. Survivor right now is strictly for masochists and people who want to be angry. maybe once the survivor bp bonus is up to x5. maybe theyll add endurance back to Off the record. BUt theres no way youre getting a hotfix on this killer for at least another chapter or two.
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Im usually one to stray from the "killer-sided" and "survivor-sided" argument because i think its dumb and a product of bias. But this time i will flat out agree that this update is a nightmare for survivor. I have not been genuienly angry at this game or the devs…like ever…until this update and the failure of what was promised.
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Even worse than that. Imagine release skull merchant with ALL the gen regression and gen block perks with no limit on how many times they can be used
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they just BUTCHERED off the record. you know what. butcher is an understatement. They [insert teh most horrific thing you can image here] to Off the Record. The tunneling spike has been absolutely insane. not one match since this update (besides two memeing killers) have been free of hard tunneling. The ONE time i was not tunneled. was because i was Touka and the ghoul did not want to kill their wife from the anime. I have been showered in thanks by survivors because I have not even remotely tunneled and it gave them a break and a good match.
someone explain to me the logic of why they would coward out of an anti-tunnel update then effectively delete the one half-decent free anti-tunnel perk? Even DS (a p2w perk) is not a good anti-tunnel because half the time i loop them until its no longer active. I have had to let them down me, just so i could actually use the perk and get some distance.
Even better question. whoever approved this "balance" change on this perk needs have their employment revaluated and should have a red flag on any future video game studio applications.
I have been here since 2016-2017. I've survived the OG BNP. Infinite loops. Pallet vacuums. ACTUAL face camping. But this… this is the first time i have been genuinely furious at this game and the developers.
Like what are we supposed to do? I have to run PURE second chance perks and items to have a half-decent time.
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@DyingWish92 said:
I like the rework but holy crap do I hate the slaughtering strike. Turning is total crap with it. All survivor has to do is hug a rock, a corner, or make a sharp turn and you aren't hitting it like his old tier 3 lunge. I guess I'm bringing tuft of hair add on every game. Everything else I like about the rework, the slaughtering strike is not good though.
there is an addon…i htink tuft of hair? that takes away slaughtering strike and he becomes OG T3 myers if you prefer that. I figured it out cuz my old Myers build used that Addon and was confused on why there was no slaughtering strike lol. Basically you just pop t3 and m1 them like before.
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@Nytlight said:
BHVR… I ask that you not give the community hope. I was really passionate about playing again, playing during the ptb, and then you remove the best thing about it? I don't deserve to get facecamped or tunneled out getting body blocked for my hook endurance just so that I get out of the game that you want us to play, and that I want to play. The ptb was great, it gave an incentive to the killer to chase other survivors with a threat of the blocked gens and survivor bonus if they killed before 5 hooks, and and buff if they didn't. It wasn't too punishing. I played both sides. I suck at killer and am a survivor main, but regardless gameplay didn't feel different. It felt quicker whether I won or lost was my fault.
Please revert it. This is so boring knowing what more consistent fun could've been like.
dude the tunneling has been so absurdly bad today and whats worse the ONE good anti-tunnel perk is quite literally useless now. I have to use decisive strike. Like before this update tunneling was common but you could usually take chase and down. Now there is no doing that. they will literally slug you and keep going for the hard tunnel. its so so so so so bad.
Thankfully silent hill F and a few other awesome games come out soon, so I wont even need to think about this awful experience.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004991#Comment_4004991
so they made a notoriously difficult achievement even harder? same conditions as before but now have to get 8 hooks to be able to pull it off and people can still deny the tombstone out of spite with lockers?
I think its even easier now since you dont need an offering its just basekit, I got the achievement years ago but did it again my first match as myers.
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i was worried that my headset was on the fritz lmao
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@Cassiopeiae said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004773#Comment_4004773
Having to rely on techs and bad krasue awareness instead of a loop setup isn't particularly healthy. Still, I keep trying what you suggest and it's not working.
you dont need to rely on it, its just helpful tips to do better. Maybe watch some youtube videos and see what they do.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004807#Comment_4004807
''not very strong'' she is literally tier S bro.
every time a killer comes out the entire community goes "OP S TIER PLZ NERF NO COUNTER PLAY" and then in a week suddenly they're "mid". just give it a bit to learn and play her to get an inside perspective of the killer.
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@adam1233467 said:
Not gonna play survivor against this bs, I've had one match and one match was already enough, she has literally zero counterplay in chase with 0 thinking on injuring survivors, I've done my vee adept and that's it, she has zero couldown on her spit on body form and she can spam on you its miserable.
shes honestly not very strong… give her a try. best way to learn counter play on a killer is by playing that killer and getting stomped on.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004697#Comment_4004697
I tried doing that and she just hit me while I was vaulting. Am I doing anything wrong?
you gotta fake it a bit. similar to how ppl jump through shack and take advantage of the weird camera angle to trick the killer. You or can act like ur gonna do that but dont and the whiff is nice. honestly i just focus on windows. and taking sharp turns to avoid the vomit. if you dont get leeched its a pretty easy time.
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@cogsturning said:
If this is what we're considering a good thing now we are in trouble.
i take what i can get from these devs lmao
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@Cassiopeiae said:
This isn’t a rant about the new killer being OP or unfair.
Just want to know what I, as a survivor, can actually do to avoid getting downed before I even reach a minute of chase time.
Watching the stream and being told to just eat the mushrooms hasn’t been very helpful. Eating them mid-chase doesn’t work, the leeches take too long to drop off, and the slowdown while eating makes you an easy target. You can’t reliably force her to transform back during a chase, which means you’re stuck dealing with her long lunge, vaulting ability, and rocket-like speed.
I’ve read about her power in her bio, but that isn’t very helpful for countering her as a survivor, it’s just useful when playing as her. Any advice from someone who knows how to deal with her would be greatly appreciated.
I have yet to die by her but got ehr adept my first round as her. Vaults are kind of a weakness for her. Most of the time as shes vaulting you can just step behind her and vault as well. She cant break pallets in head form as far as i can tell, so just keep vaulting stuff and i fair pretty well. i focus mainly on windows
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@fussy said:
Hello! I'm writing this post in hope to reach devs about anti-slugging changes and explain why it will ruin many aspects of this game and most important part of gameplay for me – macro and decision making. And as 50/50 player, it will just dumb down gameplay on both sides a lot.
I honestly thought we had enough testing of free UB in past and community explained these points a lot, but I'm glad to repeat it all again, since it definately will only create problem while solving nothing.
While anti-tunneling changes has some potential, anti-slugging should not be in this game in any form at all. Even Tenacity basekit will be HUGE game changer in crucial situations and insane amount of free time for survivor role.
Slugging is the problem?
To begin with, I think I missed the point when slugging began to be "problem" along with campingtunneling, because literally all my 6 years in this game I never heard any complains about it and everyone understood perfectly well that it's just part of gameplay, but suddenly in last year survivors began to classify it as "unfun gameplay".
While it's maybe not the most fun of gameplay, it still big part of gameplay on both sides and I don't see a single reason why this part of gameplay should be suddenly extremely in favor of one side, which already benefits the most from it, if plays well.
I've read some absolutely absurd statements here that I usually don't even spend time discussing, but since they will appear in the comments regardless, I feel like I have to say these unbelievably obvious things just to stop this festival of ignorance:— Survivors don't have anything to prevent 4 people from slugging and snowbowling.
— And why they should, to begin with? If 4 survivors on the ground, it literally has to end with a large SKILL ISSUE sign and transition to the lobby, like with Fatality in MK. Because if you not only let the killer start 4 chases in different parts of the map in short period of time, not only all of you lost these chases, but made it so fast to the point killer has time to travel the map, find someone, start and win another chase or two, then you definately as a team made a lot of critical mistakes. It's just mathematically impossible for 1 moving point to catch 4 moving points in a large space full of resources, unless all chases are too fast and killer has non-stop info about next target after every single chase. And now basicly asking rewards even in situation, where s e v e r a l critical mistakes were made? Yeah, truly fair and balanced.
— 90 seconds is enough for normal gameplay.
— Yeah, kinda agree, in most matches you don't need even 90s to slug. Problem is — in most times survivors dictate if it will be "normal" gameplay or not. And worst part – this free UB will affect exactly these players, who actively trying to prevent killer from hooking. And actually close matches, where killer tries to create pressure and/or simply don't have time to pick up. Average lobby won't be affected by this, let's be honest. If average soloq survivors play match against killer much more stronger than them and end up 4 people on the ground, their timers are not even close to 90s. They just abandon and go next.And this video is perfect example of how a series of important mistakes could result into… rewards for them and punishing for killer? Because by the time they end up in this situation, 3 of them would pick them self up with this handholding change and 4k will result into probably just 1k, even with the fact that killer played completely "normal" match and didn't go for slugging without reason for that. Fair and balanced, once again.
And trust, I had not 10, not 100 and not even 300 matches like this on both sides with different situations, but almost always with one common thing – series of critical mistakes from survivors. And maybe only 4-5 games in my 6 years, where it was some stupid build for slugging with old Knock Out or full aura build Nurse on Midwich, where survivors truly had nothing to do with it.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YJ32M8UYK3I3/image.png
Killers' power
This is the point I hate the most about this change. I love killers with map pressure, because it's basicly chess gameplay, where you need to keep everything in your head and make decision based on it with all pros and cons.
And slugging always was part of it. Sometimes it smarter to use your power wisely to create pressure (Oni, Dredge, Sadako, Singu, Twins, Knight…), and these killers don't need compensation buffs, they need possibility of using their power smart. There is already high risk of your down will be picked up in the time you will try to find someone else I don't understand why macro gameplay with killers power should be eliminated and killers should be punished for managing resources they have.
Perks on both sides
Unbreakable – perk that has changed the course of the game big number of times in my memory. You can always see this perk in SWF, because they know that it's a "get out of jail" card, and even if they made so many mistakes that the four of them ended up on the ground, they can always fix all their mistakes with a single perk. It's free gen time for your team as well, if killer decided to left you on the ground. You can say same thing about Conviction, but this one have even more utilizations. Can you explain how we give this gamechaning perk in buffed state with Tenacity to all survivors for free, but not just from the start of the game?
WGLF is another very strong perk due to how easy it can denies killer's pressure. And still requires another survivor for it. And even this perk pales before this change.
What about killers perks that you need to slug to have value from? Infectious, Forced Hesitation, new Ravenous, None Are Free? These are already extremely situational perk you won't see value consistently. Even weaker now?
Absolutely nothing done about forcing killers to slug
I honestly don't want to stop for long here, we all know what this is about. And it's sad to see how community completely ignored this and only @Coffeecrashing tried to pay attention to this problem. We cannot punish one side for a certain actions and reward the other side for forcing the same actions.
TL:DR Will game be better with this change?
Undoubtedly – worse by far.
Except drastically decreasing killer's agency in many situations, limiting many killers abilities, removing macro
gameplay on survivor side to autopilot mode, not doing anything except gives absurd advantages to already
strongest players in this game, and make unfun gameplay even worse, I think all matches affected by these
changes will eventually split into three categories:
1) Already lost matches, which just unnecessarily last way longer. I don't think anyone will be glad to see
this. Only a redesigned MMR will fix such matches.
2) Actually equal and long matches, where both sides don't know if they will win or not to the last minutes. These rare matches will be even more rare, because by the end of the game in matches like this all killer's pressure and survivors' mistakes will result into rewards for them, just for nothing.
I can't even imagine how cheap it would feel, when in the endgame I just nullify all killer's pressure for free, just because once someone sabo'ed hook before killer with myself on his shoulder and next time dared not to ignore survivor next to me on the ground.
Even if someone fine with this handholding, I really afraid of what will coming right after this: all killer's pressure from these matches will accumulate into even shorter chases and killers buffs.
3) Most unfun killers matches will be even worse. All sabo, flashlight, dying under pallet with Background Player SWFs will only recieve most unnecessary buff to these playstyles, while put killer into lose/lose situation with no right choice for him.What can be done about slugging?
The only thing I can see be added is crawl speed based on how long you are on the ground.
0-60 seconds – default 0,7 m/s.
60-120 seconds – Tenacity speed – 1,05 m/s.
120-180 seconds – 1,4 m/s.
180-240 seconds – 1,75 m/s.
This change I believe will be much healthier for the game and won't create even more problems, like with PTB version, but will make "excessive" slugging much more harder for killer, while won't affect most "normal" matches at all.
Thank you for your time.you for real? if you wanna see why its a problem load into a match, plot twist but don't fully recover, and just sit there till you bleed out or are saved. not very fun.
you mention that if survivors are slugged then they made a series of mistakes…well survivors could argue that if you need to slug to win…you have made a series of mistakes. These sorts of arguments are pointless because they only ever focus on ONE side and not both. The purpose of the change…the point of the change…is increasing FUN for the majority of players. Id say increasing the enjoyment of much of the community is worth the frustration of a handful of slugging killers.
There is a significant portion of this community that fails to realize that video games are about mutual enjoyment for both sides. Video games are about fun…not feeding one persons ego. no-one plays a video game to sit on the ground the whole match. As much as it goes against the "win at all costs" mentality….fun needs to be considered for everyone. You can still have fun as killer without slugging. The survivors (4/5 of the lobby) cannot have fun while they are slugged.
also at the end of the day. The killers job isnt necessarily to kill…its to sacrifice them to the entity via hooks. Thats why bleeding out doesnt reward you with much and has even blocked adept achievements.
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@Rudjohns said:
Not only all the anti tunnel mechanics were reverted, OTR (one of the few anti tunnel perks still in the game) is nerfed, having its Endurance stats removed
It's unbelievable
OTR was the only half-decent anti-tunnel perk and now its useless. Crazy how they do this after that carpet pull of an anti-tunnel update. They REALLY want us to get tunneled.
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@drsoontm said:
Added a new scenario to the Abandon option: After recovering or being healed from the Dying State twice, the option to Abandon becomes available the next time you are downed.So what: if you are downed and healed three times you can abandon the game?
Seriously?
Am I missing something or did they make solo-queue worse?
Im cool with it. If i get slugged to the point where I am fully healed twice….I dont wanna play anymore because then its jsut me laying on the ground until I bleed out.
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@rydiafan said:
Half my matches this weekend have been against this "fun" and "interactive" killer build. I guess everyone's rushing to use up the worst designed add-on in the game before it finally goes away.
I have only ever gone against tombstone lol. I think ive had scratched mirror TWICE this entire year with tombstone every other time. I just assume they have it and jump in a locker before im hit just incase
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003501#Comment_4003501
Because being forced to counter lop sided maps was dumb (imo) good example would be a yamaoka offering when playing as ghostface
I never noticed it or had issues with it. And im a ghostface main that runs perks specifically for jumpscares.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002847#Comment_4002847
I’ve used a total of 27 rpd offerings and haven’t got it yet.
Map offerings are completely useless and that is an understatement. idk why they nerfed em so hard when there was an offering that canceled map offerings.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Hello,
Something I've noticed in post-game chat and also in Dead by Daylight discussions online is that players are very angry when the opposite side plays good and employs smart strategies. For instance I was playing deathslinger and I slugged pretty much the whole game because it was the best play. I was able to down all four at 1 gen remaining in a 3-gen setup barely turning the game around. If I went to hook someone, then decisive strike, endurance, we'll make it, and whatnot would all come into play and stop me from snowballing. Not to mention the time lost in trying to actually hook someone. So I slugged for a chance to win. But for some reason some players get mad at the PLAYER rather than the gameplay itself.
On top of that, people will say that the other person is unskilled because they had to 'resort' to such and such. I guess the assumption is that there's only one way to play the game: the basic 12-hook process.
If that was the case, why does the game have a hook countdown timer forcing the survivor to progress into death if they stay on a hook for too long. This means that you don't need to hook someone 3 times to actually kill them.
Why is there a dying state where the survivor is unable to do anything productive and can eventually die from.
Why is there a generator repair action that lets you escape the trial if you finish all of them (basically what does genrushing even mean?)
Why are there perks added specifically against such strategies?
If the gameplay was really constricted to ONLY 12-hook gameplay, it would be very very boring and many perks would have to be reworked.
It doesn't make sense. What would the player be expected to do, just continue playing like an NPC and hand over the win? I can't think of any other game where people get so mad at their opponents for playing smart and blame them as if they're guilty for playing within the rules. Generally, if a strategy exists that someone may not like, they would complain to the devs for change, adapt, or practice good sportsmanship and commend the opponents for playing well.
Basically I don't understand it when people say "I don't camp", "I try not to tunnel", "If killers will keep tunneling, then I will keep genrushing" (in other words: I will keep playing Dead by Daylight) or "cheese tactics". Most of these strats is literally just playing the game as allowed. In my opinion for something to qualify being called a "cheese", it has to be something really stupid like pre-2.7.0 legion with his moonwalk strat that literally required you to not chase a survivor by game standards, but in fact you were actually chasing them just looking at the floor. Now that's a cheese tactic, not changing strategies and prioritizing one player out of the game, or focusing on generators instead of healing against legion.
What do you think, why is the community like this? Is it due to lack of action by the devs or the game's unbalanced nature? Or do you think that these strats are indeed cheesy and shouldn't be a part of the game?
Its becasue despite the VERY loud minority….most people dont take this game that seriously. This isnt e-sports comp stuff and when ppl act like it is and say its "optimal" it makes people roll their eyes. its akin to taking mario party too seriously, it ruins the vibe for everyone because one person is hyper-focused on winning rather than casual enjoyment.
Its a consequence of comp vs casual gamers and the comp scene. Its also incredibly unfun for everyone but you. Its frowned upon because it is the selfish playstyle of someone whose ego depends on a win. Winning aint so deep you have to ruin everyone elses time to do it.
The "optimal" playstyle (slugging and tunneling) is also viewed a problematic to the devs. hense all of the nerfs to it and the extreme update that almost happened but is still coming in the future with more adjustments. So the question you should be asking is "why is winning so important that I sacrifice the enjoyment of others and play in a way even the developers dislike?" The ONLY people who don't have a problem are those not on the receiving end of it and do it themselves.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Still waiting for Billy Coen. I need to see Billy and Rebecca reunited again :)
Also would love a Krauser legendary for one of the Killers.
I could see it working for Wesker
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@Royval said:
I just don’t understand how players don’t bring anti tunnel when tunneling is so rampant in the game right now it’s literally throwing the game at the load screen
I do wish teammates would bring more anti-tunnel perks. But none of the anti-tunnel perks are base-game and many dont want to spend money or shards on a character just for one perk that isnt that strong. DS is one time use, Dead hard is easy to bait, shoulder the burden is just buns. Only half decent and consistent Anti-tunnel perk is off the record and most of the time when i get tunneled off hook I loop the killer past the perks activate time and go down after the perk is no longer active.
Honestly a player base should not have to rely on non-base game perks to counter a toxic and common playstyle. Its part of the reason we say this game is pay-to-win and horrible for new players. -
@cogsturning said:
If none of my friends are online and available for communal suffering, I just play killer now.
Same and when we play we do nothing but meme. We expect to die and get tunneled so we go out with a bang and a whole lot of laughter. Other than that….survivor is the worst thing to even consider playing. Did two matches solo with a normal build and intent to just do gens. First match was a VPN myers who slugged and hard tunneled. The next was a Lich. Dude tunneled me for four gens. Not a single person hooked except my two hooks.
There is a reason why the BP bonus is almost always survivor. noone wants to touch the role.
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the people demand more Dr. Mommy Chambers skins!
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My only beef with ghoul is the BS first hit being literally guarenteed. been hit thorugh walls and so much. Other than that theyre pretty easy to loop.
However i think a lot of the hat comes from the fact that every ghoul ever tunnels
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
Anti-camp hurts non-S killers the most
can we stop saying "S-tier" when its entirely subjective and those tier lists are never consistent or in agreement.
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Never. it is the funniest perk ever. and when you have multiple of the same survivor running the perk…it…is…MAGIC.
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@Jog_Og said:
I get a lot of DCS when I play Ghoul and Plague and I get it, I don't have an issue with either killer but my teammates can't handle them. I don't get as much on Nurse and Blight but I think that's cause I've maxxed out my MMR on them and the survivors there enjoy the challenge :)
i dont tend to play ghoul because ppl give up right away, which is weird cuz theyre generally pretty easy to loop, but are notorious tunnelers. Most of the DCs I see are on SpringTrap and clown….and always upon being tunneled or camped. Weird how certain killers attract certain players
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@ForumPikmin said:
Actually embarrassing how many players were crying about BHVR hating killer players this past week just for them to annouce they're holding back the anti-tunnel and anti-camp changes 2 DAYS after the ptb.
Like y'all look so goofy right now.Death and Taxes arent the only absolutes. Another one is that DBD players will absolutely claim the game is sided towards whichever side they dont main. Survivors "DBD killer sided". Killers "DBD killer sided".
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thats helpful, i got it. but what are the tiers and their corresponding times?
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@Dokta_Carter said:
Honestly also curious on this, several survivors D/C'ed against me and im just sitting there wondering "buddy i'm just learning throwing knives here"
had one dude immediately DC because he thought I was gonna have tombstone or infinite t3 myers and he was bored of it………I was scratched mirror lmao.
Im not complaining about DCs, like fair enough if ur not having fun, i just wanna know how the system works. Like ive been seeing ppl losing grades and what not…has me confused
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@Dokta_Carter said:
As A player do you like or hate those perks?
Personally I dislike when I use them, but I realize its a necessity(let's be honest, if you can roughly doing 2 gens as a team in by the time it takes killer to get one hook.. it kinda feels rough for the killer)
I hear people, more so those whom are on the receiving end of regression, do not llke them.
Is it specifically the repetition of the perks usage. Or another reason?
As Killer:
the only time i use them is when im unfamiliar with a killer and need a perk to buy me time to figure it out. or if im memeing and i dont want the match to end fast. In general i only ever use pop or surge and no more than that.
Ill use pop on scratched mirror myers just to keep up the fun and slow it down for more jumpscares
Ill use surge on spirit just cuz its great on her and kicking gens is lame
other than that i mostly just do chase perks, info perks, or perks for memes like backpack trapper. I just dont really need them i guess.
As Survivor:
Depending on what perk it is i cringe and roll my eyes. Usually corrupt intervention or pain res. Because i see those perks literally every match. Especially the Pain Res dead man switch combo. I expect it every game now. i just get off the gen before hooks at this point. its like "ok, tell me you googled meta killer build without telling me you googled meta killer build".
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456662/dc-penalty-question
The game remembers the most recent 20 games you've played, and the game knows how many of those games involved a ragequit. So, for example, if you ragequit in 10 of your most recent 20 games, your DC penalty is at tier 10.
This means your DC penalties no longer decay over time, and they only decay when you play additional games without ragequitting.
The only part that was temporarily kill switched, was Go Next punishing survivors for ragequitting in ways that don't involve a DC.
is there a page where i can read up on this or a video that goes over it well enough?
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its useful if they break it from a distance you cannot see so when that aura is gone…you know theyre coming from that direction. But i can see why outside of that its kind of silly
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@coolgue1 said:
At this point every match feels the exact same:
- Someone gets hooked
- Teammate trades
- Killer goes right back to hook and tunnels
There’s no counterplay, no variety, no skill expression. It’s just hook → trade → tunnel until someone is out of the match in the first 5 minutes. Survivors don’t even get to play the game, and killers aren’t being pushed to actually improve because tunneling is the easiest way to win.
The worst part? Every killer can do this. It doesn’t matter if you’re playing Nurse, Wraith, Clown, whatever—they can all tunnel, and they don’t even need a perk to do it. Yet survivors are constantly told “just bring X perk” as if it’s our fault. Why should survivors be perk taxed just because killers want the easy way out? If it’s a strategy every killer can abuse without building for it, it’s a design problem, not a survivor problem.
And BHVR, stop listening to the people that live on the forums instead of actually improving their gameplay. The players defending tunneling aren’t interested in balance, they just want their free wins. Meanwhile, the larger community is getting tired of the same unfun loop.
BHVR needs to implement something at this point. Look at the player count—dropping every single day by the thousands. That’s not just “burnout,” that’s people getting sick of an unplayable loop
Dead by Daylight is supposed to be about tense chases, teamwork, and clutch moments. Right now it’s just a tunnel simulator, and if nothing changes soon, the playerbase will keep bleeding out.
my last match. camping and tunneling Clown
match before that. Camping and tunneling Glitchtrap
Match before that. A tunneling Ghoul where oddly enough, flashlights could not be used at all
Match before that. Tunneling Chucky.
Match before that. A ghostface who sat by unhook to mark rescuers and tunnel
Come to think of that. Ever since they reverted the anti-tunnel update….I have yet to have a match where someone wasn't on death hook before anyone else had even been hurt. REALLY hoping survivors start to leave in mass so these killer q times increase even more. maybe then theyll change something.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996271#Comment_3996271
I also think you and I have VASTLY different approaches to this game. You seem analytical and focus on strategy. whereas i play mostly for memes now
So what you're saying is that you don't play competively, and thus don't really have any stake in balancing changes that would be abuseable by players who ARE playing competitively, thus violating the integrity of the game.
There is no way you're going to make people who are inclined to play optimally take the game less seriously. That's just a general archetype of player in any type of game, and nothing you can do as a developer will make that go away. Certain types of people love to optimise and win as much as possible.
All I'm saying is that there's a reason that they are including the option to disable these changes in Custom Games, where tournament formats are always played, as they know this will not fly well at the highest levels of play.
They really need to strike a balance where casual players are offered some protection from tunnelling (because it is lame if a team that isn't equipped to deal with it faces someone tunnelling at 5 gens), while not providing unfair scenarios against Survivor teams playing to win, because like it or not tunnelling is a necessity against good teams, and has counterplay with any minor level of coordination.
The measures in their PTB forms provided the more savvy Survivors practical invincibility at times, and that's a scenario that the developers have been trying to avoid since the DS nerf back in the day.
re-read my other comments
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@Tenac said:
Beyond the obvious full escape or 4k how do you measure a good DBD match on both sides? Personally my number 1 is fun. I'm a big horror fan and any time I feel like I'm in an actual horror movie it helps. It could be simple moments like being crouched behind a wall as you watch the killer go by hoping they dont notice you. As a killer dropping from a rooftop onto a survivor and slicing them.
Obviously a non toxic opponent is always a plus. No one tea bags, no unnecessary strikes from the killer. In terms of actual results as a survivor I just want to know that I helped in someone way even if I'm the first one out. It could be popping a gen, unhooking an ally, anything that let's me know I did something. As a killer I just hope I gave someone a good thrill. A sacrifice is also quite nice. Also nothing is more satisfying as a exit gate knock down and grab.
A good game is one where i have fun. bonus points if whoever im versing has personality. Its fun as scratched mirror myers when you see a swf together pointing and trying to get one to see if the coast is clear. its so funny and they always have fun too. Even matches where i get dookie stomped are good so long as there was no tunneling or toxic behavior in general.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000545#Comment_4000545
You could say that about anything.
"if you NEED to take hits then you are playing out of your skillset and playing against people better than you. That is going to happen. You are going to lose at some point. Yall need to accept the loss and allow mmr (which noone can see, so ego wont be harmed), to drop to a level where your natural skillset is viable. Thats what mmr is for, pairing players of similar skill against each other. By bodyblocking for that desperate cheese method of a win, you are artificially inflating your mmr which forces you to continue to bodyblock. An actual self-fulfilling prophecy. The comp kid desperation for a win is the only thing keep the myth 'taking hits is necessary' alive."
You act like tunneling is some exploit that breaks the game. That killers are like "damn it, I only have 1 hook at 2 gens, I need to press the tunnel button now" and then all survivors instantly turn to dust.
It's not. It's a strategy. Sometimes you win because you tunnel, sometimes you win regardless of if you tunnel, sometimes you lose because you tunnel. Needing to tunnel to win a game is no different than needing to take hits to win or or to prerun to win.
you ever hear the phrase "false equivalency"? if not this is pretty much the perfect example of it.
And yes, i agree. if you are repeatedly getting tunneled out then your mmr should drop. drop to a point where the comp kid tunneling mindset is no longer there. There is a point in MMR where the fun layers reside. They meme, have personality, and dont constantly rage and insult like high mmr.
now for the false equivalncy. Tunneling is an issue because it targets one player to remove them from the match ASAP. body blocking does not remove you from the match….it puts someone else at risk of being removed from the match. taking a hit via bodyblocking is an altruistic action that harms one player but benefits another player and is often a response to tunneling. Everytime i body-blocked in this game its to defend against a tunneler. Tunneling is a selfish action that harms everyone's gameplay and enjoyment , with the exception of you (the tunneler). Now im sure your next argument is along the lines of "mememe i guess im just supposed to sit there and be afk since dieing isnt fun for the survivor mememememe". no. thats not what im saying. Losing, even getting absolutley decimated can be fun. Tunneling is not. The ONLY point tunneling is seen as good for the survivor is when they get to tbag at the exit gate to spite you as a final "haha" at your failure to ruin their gameplay. but that is not fun. that is toxicity born out of your toxic gameplay. winning, despite what tunnelers believe, is not a requirement of fun.
Again. Body blocking and tunneling are not equivelent. those other actions you stated..DOES NOT remove someone from the game. Tunneling does and does so by targeting one person. It is toxic.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000628#Comment_4000628
you cant say "i play trapper and i dont need to tunnel" and expect everyone else to be able to do the same. i have 45% escape rate and have no issues with tunneling killers. they can and have been countered and i dont use any anti tunneling perks, i go in with a gen build. so because i do ok against tunneling killers others should do ok too based on your "i can do it so can you" mindset. you make it sound like tunneling is actually an automatic win but if this was the case killers would have far above 60% kill rate. its not an automatic win at all and the numbers show it. if killers rates were above 60% i can understand that tunneling is op and unnecessary but the fact kill rates are 60% WITH tunneling suggests its not as op as many claim it is.
If they cant say "i play trapper and don't need to tunnel" per your counter-argument to it. then you cannot use your survivor escape rate. if their personal accounts are invalid to you, then you must except that your personal accounts are invalid as well. You also need to take into account that the kill rate is not only skewed by tunneling, but also nice and friendly killers who go in to goof off and allow people to escape regularly. Also to my knowledge there is no recent official kill rate percentage. The one people usually go for (nightlight) only tracks those players who are registered to it, and frankly, I have yet to meet anyone who is registered on there. Stats and win rate aside. The reason tunneling is a problem and is under attack is its inherently unhealthy gameplay and mass toxicity that it creates. It is by no means healthy for the game community. Keeping it for the sake of "but i cant perform otherwise" is not a good argument. You can adjust balance to make the game effective for non-tunnelers, as it already is for froggy and myself. You CAN nerf or remove certain behavior and make other in game adjustments to compensate. The pro-tunnel argument is essentially just being afraid that you cannot win without tunneling.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000484#Comment_4000484
I never really got the whole 'it's optimal' argument for why it's okay. If survivors had OG brand new part and popped four gens in ten seconds would you say it's totally fine because 'it's optimal'?
shhhh. we dont use logic round these parts. we only utilized emotionally charged hyperbole and bias.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000582#Comment_4000582
i think your ignoring the fact that i mentioned i hit a wall and lost match after match long before i started tunneling. few hundred hours of losing constantly with no tunneling. i ask again, how long should i have played the game, losing every match after i legitimately raised my mmr by playing "fair"? you might have a point if i raised mmr by tunneling at the start when i first played but i didnt. survivors lose 60% of the time by design, thats what they sign up for by playing that role. killers shouldnt lose 80% of the time like i was before tunneling. thats not the design i sign up for as killer and not the design the devs had in mind either. im not after all wins like you seem to be suggesting. im after 60% kill rate, thats not an absurd thing to expect from killer role. i can take a few losses its no big deal i take losses with tunneling but like i said before, not tunneling = far less than 60% kill rate for me. if it ever got to that point again i would walk as many other killers would too.
i play survivor as well as killer and i honestly have no issues regarding tunneling. i am currently at 45% escape rate (which is higher than the 40% goal). my only issue with survivor is my team mates are often usless. besides the obvious issues that sitting on a gen can be pretty boring but generally i have no problems regarding tunneling killers in my matches like everyone claims they are. if i can get 45% escape rate with god awful teams and tunneling killers then why cant others? you say you can achieve a good kill rate without tunneling so others can do it too. equally i can get 45% escape rate, why cant others? skill issues? poor game design? need 1000 hours to practice tunneling counters?
If you lost as much as youre saying for several hundred hours then you're either using hyperbole or just genuinely lacked skill. Im willing to bet you did not lose as much as you want us to believe, you just remember the losses because theyre more emotional charged than wins. And if anything if youre losing that much then you DEFINITELY dont want to tunnel for tow reasons. the first being mmr. the second is that by losing the devs are seeing that this specific killer is underperforming and is need in buffs. However by tunneling for that ezpz win. Their stats are showing the killer is doing well enough and does not need a buff. tunnelers are literally shooting themselves and other killers in the foot. If all the tunnelers who tunnel becuase they "have to, to win", just played regularly they would either see their overall skill improve or buffs to killers. Tunneling serves only the purpose of gratifying one specific person in one specific moment.
basically tunneling does the following:
Artificially inflates your mmr so you perform worse and get increasingly frustrated
Prevents the devs from getting a clear picture of killer data so they may implement appropriate buffs.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000557#Comment_4000557
your logic makes no sense based on my experience. when i started playing i didnt tunnel at all and i got a balance of wins and losses. Then i hit a wall and would lose almost every match. how long do you expect people to lose consistently to get that mmr down? after a couple hundred hours i thought this isnt fun at all so i started tunneling to pick up a few wins. now im going against sweaty swf on coms an a regular basis and tunneling doesnt always work so im maintaining my balance of wins and losses. if i did it your way i would have quit the game long ago because losing time after time wasnt fun. thats not healthy for the game.
if you flip it though, tunneling can and has been countered. i myself have countered being tunneled with a good team. if you cant counter being tunneled then maybe you should take the loss and get that mmr down so you can v a killer thats not as good at tunneling? loop better, have a better team behind you and you can counter it otherwise killers would have a kill rate of 100% which i assure you they dont. the 60/40 balance the devs had as a goal and finally achieved is WITH tunneling. remove it and watch the kill rate drop, you will soon see exactly how much certain killers need to tunnel to keep that 60% kill rate
the logic makes perfect sense, the only reason you cant comprehend it is because you cant fathom losing that much. It does not take a lot of losses to lower mmr to where you belong. Now for someone who habitually tunnels because thats the only way for them to win…it will take more. because they artificially inflated their mmr well past where they belong. Given the choices…yes you keep trying and keep losing so your mmr settles at a comfortable level. it is only tedious because you used cheap desperate tactics to win and inflate that mmr. You will get to a point where you dont need to tunnel to win. I dont EVER tunnel. hell half the time i dont even have gen regression….i do perfectly fine. The desperation for that validation of a win is so powerful those who tunnel are willing to make their game experience miserable and the experience of others miserable simply because they want to win that badly. Learn to accept loss, fundamental skill in life tbh. Survivors by design…lose most of their matches, if they can handle constant loss…so can everyone else.
The devs did not revert the update because they are in favor of tunneling…they reverted it because it was too punishing for regular killers who don't tunnel or may accidently tunnel. The goal was to punish tunneling and reward healthy gameplay, but they punished those trying to play healthy as well, hence the delay.
drop the comp mindset. let your mmr settle naturally. i PROMISE you will find this game to be less frustrating and anxiety inducing. Hell i just got 3 4k matches in a row with scratched mirror myers. no gen regression. it is a thing you can do. my main ghostface build is all aura reading…no gen regression. I do very well with it. Tunneling is not necessary, even less so if you let your mmr be at where your actual skill level is and not where your ego wants it to be.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/455880/cant-wait-for-the-anti-tunnel
You're an indecent human because you want to win a video game? What the hell kinda logic is that?
taking things out of context final boss
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000545#Comment_4000545
so your saying killers v solo players in same skill bracket dont need to tunnel but at some point they will go against swf teams that have far more advantage over solo players, at this point its time to take the loss? doesnt make sense
no im not saying that, thats just what you chose to get out of what i said because of your bias. what doesnt make sense is treating every single match as if its against comp communication level and experience swf despite it be a very VERY small portion of not only players, but swf groups. You justify toxic unhealthy gameplay because you have a had a few rough matches against swf. The thing is though….as killer the only way to know if it is swf is if they tell you or you can see it on their steam or whatever social media. So a plethora of you are just assuming it is swf. Even so. most swf are just a couple of people who wanna play a game with their friends. Most do not take this game as seriously as you.
what i AM saying is. If you cannot win via healthy means. you are not in your skill bracket. it has nothing to do with swf as swf are in all brackets and killers beat swf in all brackets without needing to tunnel….even as trapper. it has to do with your specific performance and methods causing your mmr to artificially inflate. Even if high MMR is 100% comp survivor 4 man swf. Why do you care about getting to that mmr? do you get prizes? cool stickers? no you dont. you dont even see your mmr. So youre essentially tunneling and forcing yourself to go against these players all out of pride and ego. Take the L. Winning isnt everything. Let your mmr drop to a point where it is natural for you. thats what mmr is for.