ausanimal
ausanimal
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@WexlerWendigo said:
He should just be a skin for the trapper, doesn’t offer anything on his own.
Why would he be a skin for Trapper apart from the movie in 2009 Jason never used traps so he has nothing to do with Trapper and his play style, BHVR would loss to much money just to make Jason a skin you will have F13th fans coming over to play this game and getting the DLC for Jason, Jason will be able to have more then 1 skin each movie he wore something different,
I really don't know why people keep saying Trapper and Jason are the same so just do a skin, They are 2 different killers with different I.E Jason would stalk people before killing Trapper doesn't.
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@Pilot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2395157#Comment_2395157
Keys with zero charges can no longer open the hatch.
Nothing has changed about keys
Also, the devs not doing anything in the 8 months for killers, is kind of a far stretch if u ask me and rather unnecessary, hence why I'm calling you ignorant or at least, uninformed. Then u say this...
Keys were not change when they adjusted Franklin's to take a % percent off your item when being hit so when your item had 0% on it you could no longer use that item, but yet you were still able to use keys even if they had 0% use on them and escape though the hatch. So they changed it so if your key had 0% on it you couldn't escape using the hatch, So keys have yet to be changed this change was due to Franklin's and how it works now.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2390331#Comment_2390331
The last 3 killers lately have been more like "variants" than new killers.
Nemesis- PHs range attack but with zombies.
Trickster-Huntress that throws more and hurts less
Twins-Two M1 killers meshed together
Out off those 3 killers 2 were made up by BHVR so they could make them how they wanted even if it is like another killer Nemesis would off had to been someone what like the games etc, So when it comes to Jason they will have to somehow stick to how Jason is he never really used traps apart from 1 movie so he is nothing like trapper, Myers is probably the closet to Jason in regards to how he would be as Jason did stalk his victims and you even got a stalk skill in the game.
To me if Jason came to DBD he would be a combination of stalking and just raw power being able to smash breakable walls and pallets, which would fit in with what he is like in the movies you see him a lot just break though stuff but also times when he is just standing there watching you.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2388567#Comment_2388567
If Jason is going to be another M1 killer with a power that's almost identical to an existing killer. Someone that a swf can easily bully. Then id rather not have him in here.
Who would Jason be identical to and it's not trapper Jason only kind off used traps in one movie the 2009 movie all the rest he didn't use traps so which other killer would Jason power be identical to?
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@Lord_Tony said:
im telling you legendary skin makes the most sense, jason himself offers nothing new
Jason skins on trapper will not be Jason and every Jason fan will know that, if people/devs want Jason in the game they want Jason not a skin that goes on a killer that is not even close to how he kills. Jason is a stalk killer coming out off nowhere and killing people and if seen he just destroys everything in his path i.e one power/perk could be he can bust though pallets and doors a lot quick (like in the game when you get rage) trapper nothing like that.
Putting a Jason skin on trapper is pretty much a insult to every Jason fan and even the people behind him, helped with the movies and everyone else that made Jason who he is today. There is so much they could do with him as a killer and Jason fans that don't play this game will get the game and Jason DLC just to play as Jason not a crappy skin on a killer that is nothing like him.
As for his power/perks there is so many options they could even take some from the game and use and adjust them for DBD, the first version of his teleport skill when he used it and you get to the location when you come out off it there was fog or something that surrounded him, they could do something like that he can teleport to spots and when he does the area fills up with fog making it harder to see. Add in his stalk and you get a killer that has good map pressure and will make the chase fun/scary the options they have is a lot to just make him a skin.
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Jason only really used traps in 1 movie Friday the 13th (2009) all the other movies he never used traps like that, So why make a legendary skin for trapper as Jason when it doesn't really fit the way Jason killed in all the other movies.
Having Jason as a killer and not a skin for trapper will open it up for them to add more skins for him based on all the movies and even weapons like in the game you could use different weapons based on what he used in the movies. Having him just as a skin they will miss out on a lot off chances to add things to the game and people will get it because it's Jason.
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@TwitchyMike said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2242594#Comment_2242594
So overall there would be enough of a difference to make both characters still viable in your opinion?
There is like others have pointed out Jason stalks people and has a massive amount off strength and a lot of times he used his strength to bust through door's, walls etc, If they ever got Jason one day they would have to make part off him stealth which trapper doesn't have stealth, his strength they could allow Jason to smash though breakable doors then has a cool down before you could use it again.
With those 2 things in mind and what he was like in the movies Tapper is nothing like Jason and the same with Jason his nothing like Trpper, so they both could viable be in the game as both off them would be different from each other and have there own skills and play style.
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@TwitchyMike said:
Who would be the better killer?
So I doubt I'm the first person to talk about Jason Voorhees. But as I am a new born to this Forum and new to forums in general I don't want to rob myself of this topic. I was discussing with my friend about this yesterday. Him and I both got into this game relatively around the same time a few months ago. We were talking about the differences between The Trapper and Jason. The Trapper, who is basically "Jason" as my friends would say. And we were just throwing around perks and powers that would be different enough to make both characters still viable and playable.
So I wanted to get yawl's perspective as well on this. If and when Jason finishes up with his legal battle that is... But would Jason make the trapper obsolete? Would he have a variation of bear traps or traps in general? Would he teleport like he did in the Friday the 13th solo game? Would he have a cross bow? a spear. etc etc. So many different Jason versions and skins they could do I can't see why they would have a hard time doing this once legal battle is settled. The one thing that gives me hope is, and most people know this. That the Developers said Jason has a permanent invitation in DBD once it's settled.
And... begin!
The trapper is not really like Jason if you look at all the F13th movies there is one the he only really used bear traps on and i think it was the 2009 movie, they might off made trapper kind off look the same with the mask but otherwise they are two different killers. Take one movie when someone was in a Portable toilet did Jason set a trap outside off it and wait for them to come out Jason skewers his victim two times through the Porta Potty's walls, leaving him to die without a shred of dignity.
The list could go on but they are two different killers with different kill styles the trapper sets traps where as Jason just kills without out the use off traps apart from that one movie.
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@ChurchofPig said:
My largest thing is the 2 killing add-ons. Those add-ons seem more fair for when he first released. When pallets were every 2 inches, vacuums existed, and whatnot. Now the game is more balanced. Vacuums are gone, pallets are more spread out (on MOST maps) and so many other changes to make it more balanced. With that in mind, it makes these 2 add-ons (especially when he got the stalk off of other survivors and he just had to tap the button to tier 3 off you) seem... a bit much.
Now before someone starts calling me an entitled survivor main, I play both sides a lot and just finished playing a lot of Michael to level him up. I don't think those 2 add-ons (in their current form) should be in the game, AT ALL. They need to do something else.
In all your games of playing Michael how many times did survivors allow you with ease stalk and tier up? I know in games i have played they drop a pallet and stand there giving me free stalk when they should be running blocking my line off sight or sit on a get knowing I'm stalking them just to finish it.
Michael has been in this game for a while and most people should know how to counter him or to lessen the amount off evil you can get from survivors but yet some just seem happy to feed him, add that on the amount that is needed to lvl up to tier 3 if you kill the wrong survivor one you haven't stalked off yet that limits how much more evil you can get unless you bring the unlimited tier 3 but that's a high risk/ high reward.
I have done that got my tier 2 to 90% ready to kill someone that was empty off evil and stalked the another person a bit to much by mistake and hit tier 3 and killed them even though i hadn't stalked them yet which left me with only 2 people with evil to get as one was dead and one was empty limiting me on how much more evil i could get the rest off the match.
" (especially when he got the stalk off of other survivors and he just had to tap the button to tier 3 off you) seem... a bit much." this part i can some what agree on and might need a slight change that a survivor has to be stalked a certain % before you can kill them, so it's not a free kill because your teammates allowed him to stalk them so much but he also stalked you enough to be able to kill you. So come end game even though Michael killed you using the tomestone addon he was able to stalk you enough to hit the % needed to be able to kill you.
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@CLB198 said:
A nontoxic but risky stagey.
If they all are left to bleed out without a attempt at hooking them it is then 'taking the game hostage' and then toxic.
It's not taking the game hostage as everyone will bleed out after a set time it might be toxic but it is not taking the game hostage, taking the game hostage is i.e trapping the last survivor in a corner with them having no way to get past you and you just stand there blocking them and doing noting making the game last i.e 30 min.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2079022#Comment_2079022
Well I would make the inverse argument - that you are just a trash killer. Since the majority of killers had a greater than 68 percent kill rate at the red ranks, TEN NERF PATCHES AGO. The game is heavily killer sided just based on statistics. I would love for them to release the current statistics of kill rates now, after the huge movement nerf and the continuation of making survivor gameplay just be a 4k power fantasy.
What those statistics never showed was how many survivors were just giving up on first hook and killing themselves, getting 2nd hooked and killing themselves each one off them counted as a kill even though the killer never actually killed them the survivor killed themselves. Unless you have statistics that show how the kills were counted we would all love to see that otherwise you can't go off the statistics for this game as stuff like that is counted as kills.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074276#Comment_2074276
I will agree its all relative but SWF plan accordingly ahead of time for campers to know someone may be offered up to help the rest win,,,thats a tactic,,, carefully planned up front and managed during the game. To me, just hooking and sitting there when no one comes (which is increasingly what happens when camping is being used) isnt I am sorry,,,esp if the eventually outcome is the killer loses.
SWF use a tool that's not in the game voice chat to pass on information they would not otherwise have unless they ran perks and also to balance the load out each person will bring into the match bypassing everything DBD has in place to try and make it a balanced game is that tactics or along the lines of cheating?, if SWF did use tactics then DBD would balance SWF so there are limits on what they can bring items, perks etc making it harder on them forcing them to use tactics.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074259#Comment_2074259
Which is exactly why I carry Kindred and Prove thyself (with tool boxes) and we power through gens understanding that survivor is offered up to help us win the game. Its the only way to stop camping when enough killers lose to it.
No matter which way you look at be it people power through gens or fall for it camping is still a tactic and won't change it might suck for the person on the hook but the same could be said for killers trying out new killers and facing swf.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2074244#Comment_2074244
Tunneling maybe if the survivor is good,,,but if the player isnt then he gets downed three seconds after getting off the hook. All your doing is going after the easy target which is maybe a tactic. Hooking a survivor then just sitting there is not a tactic at all, you cant be serious lol?? Killers who think that really need to understand the meaning of tactic
What does tactic mean?
English Language Learners Definition of tactic
: the activity or skill of organizing and moving soldiers and equipment in a military battle.
: an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
Does that sound at all like sitting in front of a hook, esp if no one comes to rescue and you end up losing?
": an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end." this sums up the reason for the DS nerf what was strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end about knowing you can do what you want for 1 min, The tactic to hooking a survivor and standing there is getting them out off the match making it a 3v1 not a 4v1 which is better odds for the killer. Unless the survivors know the killer is standing there then at least 1 or 2 will come for the save at the start which leaves next to no survivors on gens for a period seems like a planned out tactic.
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@fogdonkey said:
Some random dude that you don't even know is doing it in DBD, why do you even care? It is not even real teabagging, because they are not doing it over your virtual dead body.
Or is it that teabagging reminds you that the survivor (or the whole SWF team) is a better player and you just simply can't accept this fact that they are better?
Why do survivors get upset when a killer hits them when they are on a hook?
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1924802#Comment_1924802
First off, I never once said "unsafe hook" in the example I provided as a response to someone else. Don't mix proxy camping because you saw a potential for an unsafe unhook to going back to hook because you feel like it, when you weren't even around the hook at all.
So if I want tunneling to be looked at I have to get them to look at gen speeds? Oh I didn't know the two were related AT ALL. I have my own concerns about gen speeds, but guess what? That isn't the conversation we are having today nor it is something that the devs have not stated that they are doing nothing towards improving. Don't worry soon you will have a trial warm up feature as a result.
That's the problem you want tunneling looked at but how is the game to know what it is when you don't even know i gave a good example of what you would call tunneling someone unhooking a survivor 2 seconds after you hook them and the killer downing the hooked survivor once again that's on your team, if the killer is no were near the hook then the unhook should be safe as only a few killers can move that quick to get back unless they are still close to the hook.
Chasing a survivor around a hook is not proxy camping why not ask the question why didn't the survivor lead them somewhere else if the survivor left the hook and the killer stayed then yes that's on the killer but if the survivor want's to try and get the save that's on the survivor stop trying to blame killers for survivor mistakes.
If i go for a unhook and the killer starts chasing me i run away from the hook even if it means i take a hit why because it allows someone else to get the unhook without the killer there to get a hit off a survivor mistake.
You want tunneling looked at then anything that might help it is up for conversation be it perks, add ons or adjustments to the game, not i want tunneling nerfed because i can't use it to carry me anymore anything else is off topic sorry that's not how a discussion works, you wan't tunneling nerfed then answer what is tunneling, when is it a survivors mistake and not tunneling, when is the killer really tunneling someone without those answers or even BHVR saying what tunneling truly is and classed as it will never get nerfed sorry to break your dream.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1924626#Comment_1924626
You can still tunnel with this version of DS.
You can quick-switch and break a chase with someone just go to back to the hook and track that survivor down. Meanwhile the survivor has already had their DS deactivated via the touch of a heal or merely touching a gen. So I am not sure why you think this is actually an "anti-tunnel" perk that will actually stop killers from proxy camping a hook waiting for the right moment to continue to tunnel that same survivor. This change simply saves the killer time because they no longer have to slug.
You apparently didn't read my comment. DS is directly related to Tunneling and Camping due to it's countering feature. Two built-in abilities that can be abused, meanwhile a perk that counters them is being given conditions while they stay the same. That's why I brought it up. Because current DS assures that a killer won't suddenly change their minds about tunneling.
Let me put this to you into perspective. DS will ALWAYS be meta, as long as Camping and Tunneling remain the same. I'll repeat again, DS will ALWAYS be meta as long as Camping and Tunneling remain the same. The threat of those actions are cappable of being abused, so if you can't see the scenarios in which they can (just like you supposedly did with DS) than I don't know if we are playing the same game.
And when is it the killers fault if they tunnel or its the survivors how is the game going to know i.e if a survivor does a unsafe unhook 2 seconds after a killer hooks someone without BT are the killers meant to give that survivor a free pass because the teammate made a bad call or play smart and get someone to 2nd hook stage because off a mistake by YOUR team not the killer. That's a problem i see a lot when i play killer i could be chasing someone and they will run for the unhook 2 things will happen i will down the unhooked person if there is no BT not my fault your teammate led me to you and keep going with chase then hook both off you that's not on me that's on YOUR team again.
If i find you at the start off the match and only chase you and hook you then im tunneling to many times survivors will say the killer is tunneling or camping the hook but yet they have a teammate looping the killer around the hook why would the killer leave the have 2 survivors doing nothing.
What this DS change will bring is survivors learning how to play smarter and killers having to change how they play to and will shake the game up a bit, you get unhooked then tunneled then hear no heartbeat you have to make the choice work on a gen which might be right there or keep moving to another gen to be safe knowing you still have DS to cover you to get to a new gen.
If you really want tunneling and camping to be looked at then get them to look at gen speeds and how fast the game can go, if killers have more time to kill survivors and spread out the hooks then tunneling and camping might drop down, but there will always be people that will tunnel and camp just like you will always have survivors that will do stuff no matter what.
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Pretty much what Rocket said we need more info on the healing part off it as that is the only real part that needs to be cleared up, is it soon as you start or once your fully healed apart from that it looks good it will do what it needs to do be a anti tunnel perk.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1920435#Comment_1920435
Time to do gens and what? Give the killer a 2nd kill because you didn't have enough time?
It's time to stand up and speak up.
You answered your post by yourself if you have time to work on a gen be it 15 sec or 30 sec how can the killer be tunneling you, if the killer is tunneling you off the hook you won't have time to stop and work on a gen, that's what the DS change is about if you are truly being tunneled off the hook its still the same 1 min DS you have now but if you have time to work on a gen, do a totem your not being tunneled and if you stop to do it in the killers face that's on you. Simple question If you got unhooked and spent 30sec working on a gen then got downed were you tunneled, if so why do you think that this is the reason for the change to DS so survivors don't spend 45sec on a gen just for the killer to get hit by DS even though they didn't tunnel.
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Like i said to a friend today survivors are going to have to start playing smarter knowing they don't have DS to cover them like they did, they will have to plan when to save, where and when to heal, what gen to do and the ones that do things right in front off the killer are going to get punished for it. I think this new DS might shake the game up a bit and how it is played on both sides as you might not see survivors healing under a hook now knowing that if they do they lose there DS and will have to go somewhere safe to do it and make the killer track them down and not get a free hit at the hook.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1917912#Comment_1917912
I think that the case but the wording needs to be much clearer on it though which is good because they have shown us this early.
So we can point out the unclear wording and hopefully get it fixed before it goes live.
couldn't off said it better the people i have talked to about the change the healing part is the one that comes up the most and people are not sure on it will work and it's the one thing they need to word a lot better, to me to make it fair for both sides it just needs to be fully healed by you or someone else it will take 2 hits to down you unless they are able to down you in 1 hit be it a killer,perk,addon.
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@aEONoHM said:
They need to find additional ways to create mind game opportunities for both sides. Looping is only really fun for the survivor. I know it's a F13 mechanic, but maybe some sort of stumble mechanic? Not really a looping alternative though...
F13 had a couple mechanics that made chases fun apart from the stumble which could screw you over the longer you were around Jason the darker it got and only way to fix it was to go into the light, they could put that in DBD each gen gives more light to part off the map allowing you more places to get rid off the darkness or take longer for it to show.
like you said not a looping alternative but would start to make looping harder and would need to start thinking your next move cause once your screen is black you can't see much.
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@Jarol said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904038#Comment_1904038
I sent it to your profile.
cheers
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@onemind said:
This can go 2 ways 1 they get desperate to pay off th lawsuit and Jason comes to dbd or they disagree and double down on not letting him in
I'm hoping Jason doesn't come to DBD and once the rights have been sorted a good gaming company picks it up and makes a new and better Friday the 13th game then the last one.
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@Jarol said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904001#Comment_1904001
The Trapper is Jason.
Jason never used traps until the remake in 2009
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@Jarol said:
This may be the worst Friday I've ever had, but now ... The damn producer is suing Warner Bros and Paramount for profits. Well, I'll finally say it. Jason Voorhees will never be in Dead by Daylight, another lawsuit is coming, I think the trapper, is my Jason.
Would you be able to send me a link or post one with that info as me and a group off friends still play F13th and be interesting to read about it.
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903975#Comment_1903975
No? Not all survivors want good killers nerfed. Look at Blight, every single survivor I've seen has stated that he's a very fun balanced killer to play against. Freddy has way to much in his base kit, he has teleportation, good anti loop, natural slowdown (dream world) and anti BT. I dont want him to get a flat out nerf but its clear that if you aren't a killer main that he needs changes. Rundying, especially on good killers like Blight and Nurse can make it so that solo survivors get destroyed easily. Pop is still really good, not sure why people treat it like garbage, I still find tons of value with it and also still have plenty of time to kick a gen with it. Also on the topic of the nurse change, unless your an entitled killer main it was painfully obvious she needed a nerfz omega blink and 5 blink nurse completely broke the game.
And yet a lot off Freddy problems can be solved by waking up which a lot off survivors don't do i had a match the other day and before i got the person off the hook i woke up so i made sure BT was active when going for the save, Even when you heal people instead of staying there for a few more seconds to let the other person wake you up they run off staying in the dream world take those few seconds and wake up and most off Freddy powers are useless if your awake. You mean like the DS+UB combo on good survivors it can be a real pain to deal with just like ruindying with a good team it might not last long at all other times it will last the whole match.
The problem with pop is the reason they changed it and left DS they way it is "60 seconds allow killers to do a lot off things and still have it active" but DS still stands at 60 seconds and survivors can do a lot in that time, i was using examples from someone that left a msg before me but if you take away killers and just look at perks that have got changed that helped apply pressure there was ruin, PgtW and now ruin+undying combo each one off them has had a change to make it more easy on survivors.
Look at the ruin nerf and the reason behind it if i remember it was because new survivors found it to hard and the amount off skill checks was random, so instead of new survivors getting better they changed it but killers are the ones that are meant to get better and learn how to apply more pressure?
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@ILoveDemo said:
Or Killer learn to get gud?
Or survivors just learn how to do bones there are enough perks and items to help with finding totems but it's much more easy to complain till the devs nerf the perk they have a problem with.
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@FrostySeal said:
Difference is that "gen rushing" doesn't really exist, unless we're talking about something like Marths depip squad. If your playing killer and multiple gens are getting down really quickly, your just not putting enough pressure on the survivors. I main blight and use pop + corrupt + tinkerer with him and I havent had game where I was like "Damn I was completely powerless to stop the survivors and they actually gen rushed me."
And yet any form off pressure from perks, combos or killers that can apply more pressure and allow for more chasing survivors want nerfed, Like someone said before PGtW, nurse, Freddy, ruin+undying stuff that helps apply pressure are getting changed/nerfed, instead of survivors learning how to get better at the game and work around these things its just more easy to nerf/change them to make them more easy for survivors to deal with.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1899496#Comment_1899496
It's not really about dying or not, you can still die if the killer doesn't have ruin + undying obviously. But do you really expect a solo survivor to survive against a spirit/nurse/freddy with ruin + undying on a inside map? It's more about fairness than anything
That works both ways to with fairness you could load into a lobby as a killer and they could all be playing solo but if all 4 of them are running the meta perks and 2 of them have DS+UB if they have half a idea what they are doing the killer will be in for a rough time even a nurse/freddy or spirit, The other day i loaded in with all solo players and the freddy had a hard time keeping up due to the fact i play killer a lot so knew how to counter him like waking myself up just before saving someone to give them BT as a alarm clock was right next to them.
So why isn't stuff getting nerfed to make it fair for killers like DS or finding a way to make DS+UB not as strong and more fair for the killer and before the don't tunnel starts killers don't have to tunnel, the amount off times i have hooked someone to find a survivor behind me ready to get the save or before i have walked 10 steps away from the hook someone is unhooking them i go for the unhooker because its not fair on the hooked survivor there teammate was dumb and saved them then other times i will down them both to try and teach them to do a safe unhook, Should i get hit by a DS because your teammate was bad or be forced to wait a min where is the fairness in that when i did nothing wrong and your teammate made the bad choice instead of waiting 10 seconds for me to leave.
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@DanielPaint said:
https://twitter.com/DanielPaint_/status/1347898972287823873?s=19
How is this fair? Yeah nurse is the hardest killer to learn and master but...it's still not a excuse to have an insta easy mode.
You mean like all the 2nd chance perks survivors get, Nurse is one off the hardest killers to play and even more to play her well, whats worse is you should off know she was going to go right for you and moved to get away and not wait till the least second.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
The most boring meta that we had so far will be annihilated from existence in 3-4 weeks from now. Like it or not, undying needed a nerf, let me explain why.
The roles of hexes are simple: have a unique powerful effect that can be countered by breaking the specific hex totem. Undying gave free aura reading, in most situations you'd simply have an aura revealed completely randomly because they happen to pass from a totem, and it amplified the rng factor by reviving the hexes on other dull totems. The survivor game would go like this: the killer has ruin, you find a lit totem, so you cleanse it. But you're still cursed so you know it's undying. So you have to spend precious gen time, with a huge risk of being discovered by the killer, to search the whole map to find another hex totem. And it's literally 50/50 if it's undying or ruin. If it is undying you'll have to search the whole map, yet again, to find ruin. If you find ruin you have to do the first step again until you eventually cleanse ruin.
Does this really sound fun to you? Please don't proceed to whataboutism, because there are plenty of unfun things in the game, which the devs try to fix.
Do you know the snowball effect? Basically, if you hook a survivor another survivor has to stop doing gens to go save them. If you find a different survivor they are forced to not do gens. So 1 person only does gens. With ruin undying, in this situation, 1/4th of the team already doesn't do gens, so basically no one is doing gens. You get free pressure for nothing.
Soz yeah undying needed a nerf and shouldn't be reverted
So when are they fixing the DS+UB combo like you said " because there are plenty of unfun things in the game, which the devs try to fix." That combo is unfun for killers but nothing to change them to balance them out, they would rather nerf a perk which has a major counter play DO BONES. That has a much better counter play then the DS + UB combo but nothing on them.
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@behave_pt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807873#Comment_1807873
Here is the thing, Initially I liked ruin+undying I thought it the kind of edge a lot of killer would need so gens dont go too fast. But the problem is Ebony Mori Iri Head Huntress still exists during the hex meta, Stridor Spirit still exists Nurse and Forever Freddy still exist. The two perks made playing weaker killer possible but made killers that were already strong or too strong completely busted. I stopped running the combo because it was just too easy also im a Spirit main (japanese horror is my favourite in the genre) so I already felt bad. DS needs a change I'll also admit. but DS + UB can be more easily countered think about it thats why people call these second chance perks because without them the killer would most likely dominate. Bhvr has even posted a chart that shows that top tier killers get 3+ kills a game. So on average killers are doing their job survivors arent. This is why killer mains have nothing to complain about and why I for the most part take the survivors side because most survivors aren't surviving during their sessions. Keys can go next week i dont care but before we nerf ds lets work on Spirit, Freddy and iri head.
So many things wrong with that post devs have said in the last QnA they are going to look at huntress addons another killer change coming and also Freddy and there is no real such thing as forever Freddy as the build that started that got changed and the reasons it takes longer is survivors don't want to wake up making him just a M1 killer at that point. The problem with DS + UB is there is no counter apart from standing over there body for a min you leave them they use UB you pick them up DS kicks in hence the term there is not counter for it.
Even BHVR has said not to go off the charts as it counts people killing themselves on the hook or just giving up if 1 person DC and letting the killer hook them show true stats how many people took 3 hooks to kill, how many tried to kobe and didn't then you might be able to use those charts. The fact that you tried to bring up the charts when they have said not to use them says a lot even more with the last Q&A what they are looking at changing but you still said they need to fix them but survivors can go nuts with keys for the next week and your fine with that.
DS needs a major rework more then Spirit and Freddy and saying killers need more nerfs before 1 perk gets changed your will always be survivor bias and will not be happy till they are the power role and not the killer.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807786#Comment_1807786
Yeah but they still need to tackle the bigger issues first. Moris are easier and far stronger than keys so they tackled moris first its just common sense.
And by doing what they did they just made a bigger problem by having every survivor know a key change is coming and to use them now while there still good and killers will be dodging lobbies when they see keys which by the sounds of it is most matches making the wait time longer to find a lobby, while also driving a wedge between the killer and survivor player base even more with this change if they wanted to do it right they would off done them at the same time be it in a month and not change one but not the other.
What if it was the other way round and keys got nerfed and not moris how many survivors would be on the forums upset over the change to keys and not mori, it was a fight BHVR couldn't win by just changing one off them and not the other at the same time.
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@behave_pt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807792#Comment_1807792
They will change tho. Just seems like killer mains are mad that they didnt come out together. A key doesnt guarantee anything unless we are talking about a good swf in which case they dont even need keys. If anything its more important to nerf moris before keys.
Maybe its also the fact that when things do change it's killers that get hit first before survivors and that's if survivors get hit with a nerf to balance what killers got hit with for example ruin got nerfed before toolboxes, PGTW got nerfed to 45 seconds because killers had to much time to use it Killers ask for the same thing to DS or for conditions on it to be adjusted and nothing and now mori with only key will at some point. Whats the bet that the undying + ruin combo will prob get hit first before keys and yet UB + DS won't get touched, yes there has been other changes in the game to both sides but if you look at what got changed on one side and it's counter part to the other Killers get hit first before survivors and saying "Franklins can delete keys brought into a match" that's fine to say that but is every killer going to use 1 perk slot in case survivors do a last second swap to bring in a key.
If you want bring Franklins in to hold any counter to keys then lock survivors at the 30 seconds left so they can't last second switch to another one, as the devs said there just skins so survivors shouldn't have a problem with there survivor being locked in at 30 seconds?
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@ThatsSoKelso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1687281#Comment_1687281
Are you Dumb? When you on the hook...and the killer walking in a circle around you....thats tunneling an camping .....are you mentally ill? And don't comprehend? Lol
LMFAO that is camping the hook once your off the hook then it becomes tunneling if he goes after you, you even said it yourself " a punishment should only occur to the killer if they're camping a person on a hook with no survivor near". If your hooked and the killer stands there or walks around the hook they are camping the hook/proxy camping. If you get unhooked and the killer chases you and not the person that unhooked you then you are being tunneled. what you said just then is proxy camping/camping not tunneling and nearly every post you responded to is about camping not tunneling.
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@ThatsSoKelso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685794#Comment_1685794
This Has nothing to do with unhooking in front of a killer....sometimes you die first hook because you're being tunneled ....a killer stands around you longer than 60 seconds I say they get stuck an still for a few seconds. Nobody said give a pass because you were unhooked in front of the killer...try reading what I said...its the tunneling an standing there watching them die. There should be a punishment for that. No sht if someone unhook in front the killer thats their fault. But that isnt what this post is about. Its about the ones who just stand at the hook. If they go and are around the hook an killer sees I don't expect the killer to just walk away. But if nobody around an the killer just stands there then thats bs....no wonder people DC....if you a tunneler then I hope you get better skills. I played good killers who didn't tunnel at all.
How can you die on first hook if your being tunneled let me think about that for a second you can't, you get into a chase with a killer and they down you and hook you and you die on first hook please explain how you got tunneled. You did when you said when you being tunneled if a killer finds you and chases you for the first time they are not tunneling you, if you run them around for 4 gens and they don't want to drop the chase that's just a bad move for the killer before they down you and hook you then camp you then thats a win for you making them chase you that long.
If you want to count what most people consider tunneling which is after you get unhooked and the killer goes after you and not the person that unhooked you then my OP is still right. But if you want to count the first chase you get into with the killer as you being tunneled then your prob one off the survivors which DC when you get downed.
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Survivors just need to wait to do a safe unhook there are a few killers that can move to the other side off the map just after they hook someone what then you stand there looking at the survivor waiting till they get close to 2nd stage before you unhook them to get those bonus BP, If the killer is truly face camping your options are limited to what you can do to get that person off the hook but can be done. If survivors want to unhook someone soon as the killer has taken 3 steps away from the hook then that's on the survivors not the killer even more if they don't have BT.
I'm all for giving more BP for safe unhooks but the amount off times killers get called campers even though they took 3 steps away from the hook before someone got unhooked and downed again, blame your team not the killer if that happens for not waiting another 5 seconds to get you off the hook.
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@ThatsSoKelso said:
Since killers have all sorts of advantages an still choose to tunnel an losing BPs isnt enough. What if they camp too long around the hooked survivor they become froze like stuck still for 15 seconds or long enough to give team mates a chance to save them. I wonder how many people will quit baby sitting hooks if they realize they gonna get stuck a few seconds and the survivor can make an escape anyways. Just a thought lmao. If babysitting isn't any good anymore might save a lot of people from quitting and doing the game all together. Most DC come from people being tunneled on the hook. FACTS. And most people say they don't qanna play anymore because of the unbalanced game an because TUNNELERS make the game not fun. Killers need some type of punishment for abuse too. Survivors get the entity blocking for excess vaulting and punishment for staying in one place too long(cawwing crows) so why doesn't the killer have a punishment for staying too close to a hooked survivorfor too long? Curious of thoughts on this or if anyone has had ideas on the subject. Lol its the top thing people complain about.
I have more people DC when i get my first hit on them or when i down them for a few simple reasons they don't like the killer, i found them to quick, i outplayed them at a loop, they don't like my build the list goes on.
If you want to punish killers for standing to close to a hook before that happens survivors need to learn how to do a safe rescue, not unhook the survivor as soon as the killer has turned there back and taken a few steps, sorry but if your teammates do that and i down you thats on your TEAM not me i didn't make the dumb choice to unhook you with the killer right there and even worse without BT. You even get bonus points for doing a safe rescue.
It's a 2 way street if you want to punish killers for being close to the hook then you also need to look at survivors unhooking when the killer is right there, Why should a killer give you a free pass because one off your teammates made a bad choice and unhooked you right after you just got hooked?
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@SimplyNotFun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683956#Comment_1683956
That’s not true for survivors they definitely have set backs on their objectives. killers have Pop goes the weasel. It keeps gens in check as long as you can keep finding survivors which... I believe they give you plenty of perks and abilities and add ons to find them with ease.
Question do you play this game at all PGTW is a PERK which they have to earn it to be able to use it by hooking someone, your talking about missed attacks they are two different things all together. You can't start a post about more off a cool down to missed attacks then start bringing in that killers have perks to slow things down for survivors, just like survivors have perks to speed things up, escape a chase etc.
So the question still remains would you be happy if they upped the cool down for missed attacks but also changed things for survivors if they miss a skill check?
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@SimplyNotFun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683929#Comment_1683929
It’s not entitled at all. I play both sides it’s not difficult playing killer on a lot of these maps. They’re so small and if you use the right perks on the right killer it gives you such an advantage over the 4 combined literally every single game. Lack of cool downs in between hits is just a small detail that I have noticed for a long time. Once again this is not entitlement. You sound like an entitled killer main that watches the forum closely and cries out to defend against anybody that bashed on the killer. There’s a few things I’ve noticed and this is one of them that always puzzles me. How I can miss and it doesn’t do anything to set me back in the chase. Or how I can swing at vaults and land hits even though the survivor isn’t even near it on the other side 😂 as if it weren’t bad enough lag spikes at the windows give killers easy downs. The maps are all small to medium in size man it’s not difficult to play killer. It’s laughably easy.
I wish i got all the maps you did and not some off the large one, you want killers to have a longer cool down when they miss a attack why not give survivors one when they miss a skill check, when there healing someone and they miss a skill check it takes 25% off the bar and change the DR skill checks back to if you miss a skill check when snapping out off it you go back to zero and have to start again.
You say there is nothing to set the killer back well that is also true for the survivors, so would you be happy with that if they made the cool down longer to set the killer back they did the same to survivors?
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@madradfox said:
Perhaps labeling Ebony Moris ultra rare was a miclick because this is a bit laughable. I am a survivor main, who got Legion to do the 45 scream challenge and take a look at this.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VAMSC9S0CACQ/20201011170528-1.jpg
How does it make sense for any killer to end up with 3 Ebony Moris and 1 Green Mori before level 30, especially without any prestige
I'm not sure what dev stream it was but it wasn't that long ago but they explained why killers come across mori in blood web so much, simple answer with out watching it when a blood web gets made there has to be so much of each thing and due to killer's having less ultra rares then survivors you will see mori in the blood webs more often, compared to survivors which have more ultra rares to come across that's why you ended up with that many mori its just he way the blood web system was set up.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1664506#Comment_1664506
Sigh you simply dont understand. Old was too hit or miss. Good players could consistently hit great skill checks and make the perk utterly useless. While bad players couldnt hit great skill checks and make it extremely good.
New ruin is more consistent for good killers who can pressure survivors off gens. It wasnt bias it was to make the perk less hit or miss and remove inconsistency.
And how did they word the rework that's what i'm saying the reason behind the nerf could off been justified but when they explained the reason for it was for the survivors, take the DR rework when they explained the rework survivors were not having fun against the DR.
What you don't understand is it's not always the change to a perk, item etc but the way they explain it in the patch notes that can make things sound survivor or killer sided. Each change there is something in the patch notes that makes something sound 1 sided even if it's not, they need to look at how they are explaining the change and not just say "because survivors are not having fun against this killer we are going to change them" that is survivor bias even if the change is to make the killer better because they explained it that way it comes across survivor bias.
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@azame said:
I find it very hard to believe the devs are "survivor sided" or have a "survivor bias." I get killers need buffs and some killers need reworks but damn stuff on the killer side needs nerfs as well. 1 nerf does not mean the devs care more about the survivors.
I'm going to keep making this point until it sticks. Since patch 2.0 it's been a nerf for survivors nearly every patch. How is that survivor bias? The pop nerf I dont think its needed but it makes sense. The devs have to rework ds not just decrease the timer thats why it wasnt changed yet.
One more thing if the devs are really all for survivors why have all items and add ons excluding fire crackers, keys and their addons(soon to be nerfed) been nerfed?
That's all.
I'm making this edit because people also say the devs are killer sided if they so something in favor of killers. So my new conclusion is if you say the devs are bias towars any side you are very much wrong.
One thing you left out and is one off the biggest reasons why people say the devs are survivor bias is when they change a perk it's how they explain the reason behind the change to the perk. Take Ruin when it got nerfed and the reasons why they changed it one i can think off is that it was not fun for low lvl survivors so of cause people are going to say the devs are survivor bias because they changed a perk because survivors weren't having fun.
People can go back and forth with what perk got nerfed on each side or a item/addon but the biggest thing that makes people think the devs are like that is how they word the changes to stuff, It's really not the best when they explain the reason behind the change and a lot off killer nerfs come off as they are doing it to make things easy for survivors. That might not be the case but that's how they are explaining the change if they explained the changes better then people might not have the mind set that the devs are survivor bias.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1655920#Comment_1655920
Well, that still doesnt matter due to how the perks work.
Pop goes the weasel can be activated at any time by the killer. And when activated, will remove up to 20 seconds of survivor progress. If optimally used, thats 12 uses and thus up to 240 seconds of progress being removed.
DS cannot be activated at anytime, in fact, you need the killer to pick you up to activate it. And when activated, will stun the killer for 5 seconds flat. When optimally used and the killer pretty much tunneling, thats 4 uses of 20 seconds being added to a chase. The 60 second timer actually doesnt really matter, because you decide to wait it out rather than taking a quick one use stun. You literally are the one who turns 5 seconds of stun into 60 seconds of "immunity". Its not immunity, and in fact, its better to eat a DS earlier in the match rather than dodging it all match and have them all have it during the EGC with a gate nearby.
So again, that is 1 perk that can be activated on demand for 60 seconds, up to 240 seconds removal on progress, versus a perk that can be activated only if the killer picks you up within 60 seconds, up to 20 seconds of stuntime. They simply are not comparable. Personally, I would have kept Pop at 60 seconds and instead nerf the % it removes from gens to 20% or even 15% while also buffing base gen regression.
Well first up your wrong for PGTW to work a killer has to hook a survivor for it to activate so they can't use it at any time they feel like it they had 60 seconds from when they hooked that person to use it. To quote you here "So again, that is 1 perk that can be activated on demand for 60 seconds" it's not activated on demand it activates when you hook someone you then have 60 secs to use it.
Same as survivors DS activates after they get unhooked and its up to them and there team how they use it once again your words here " You literally are the one who turns 5 seconds of stun into 60 seconds of "immunity". Its not immunity, and in fact, its better to eat a DS earlier in the match rather than dodging it all match and have them all have it during the EGC with a gate nearby". So the killers are the ones that are making survivors do a gen then force them to jump into a locker making the killer grab them and get hit by DS, wait till there DS runs out or give them a free pass.
I will have to remember that next time a survivor jumps into a locker and tell them in post game chat im glad i made you jump into that locker, You also might not get to use PGTW 12 times every match but if we want to crunch numbers to compare you said PGTW is 240 secs if every survivor has DS and you play optimally vs it which is not always eating it at the start off the match that's still 240 sec that survivors know they won't be hooked for and if they are slugged and killer leaves to wait out DS that's even more time and if someone picks them up well guess what the killer has to down them again taking up more time because off 1 perk.
PGTW was strong but there was no need for it to be changed at all any gen slow down perks killers use end up getting nerfed while survivor perks get left alone, If the devs stand by with what they said that killers can do to much with that 60 seconds then they need to look at DS or it's just double standards its fine for survivors to have a perk that allows them to do a lot in 60 secs because off a perk but killers have a perk that does the same and it gets nerfed.
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@Heartbound said:
Decisive being an issue is amazing to me in the first place.
Just go after someone else for one (1) minute and it's a non issue.
So your saying people that have DS should just get a free pass if they are spotted working on a gen 45 sec after being unhooked?
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@LittilAvindar said:
After having been hook camped and tunneled to literal Hell all day, I really don't give a ######### if you think DS is broken. It's clearly necessary. You wanna retaliate by playing like a tool, I hope they buff DS instead. Literally had a match where a survivor d/c'd right off the bat, and the killer STILL had to camp every hook.
The actual issue is the ranking system that dictates to only care until you hit rank 1. Then it's troll central. People don't care, so they'll stand and face a hook cuz they don't have to worry about a de-rank. They'll D/C because they don't have to worry about penalties. Everyone else trying to play gets dicked on because survivors and killers alike don't actually care about anything but ruining someone's match.
If you read peoples complaint about DS you will find it's not about people using DS when being tunneled but the fact for that 1 min you can do what you feel like and pretty much get away with it, Same with this post and the devs nerfing PGTW because 1 min is to long and allows the killer to do to many things and still have PGTW active ready to kick a gen. With that 1 min after you get unhooked you can finish a gen if its been started on, nearly finish it solo, heal and start working on a ge, you can say well a killer can just slug and wait a min to pick you up but you might not even be running DS but you could be running unbreakable or you could be running both.
That's the problem people have with it if the devs think PGTW gave the killers to much time in 60sec then they need to look at DS and what survivors are able to do in that time, majority of people are not asking to nerf DS into the ground or take away it's anti tunnel aspect but to balance it to be more fair.
You will always get killers that will camp and tunnel hard no matter what they put in place or perks you run that's just life and part off the game, same as survivors going out off there way to troll the killer or make the match a bad experience for them, If devs are adjusting perks like PGTW because killers can do to much in 60 secs then they need to look at survivors perks like DS.
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@IshinSolarc said:
Why I believe it's bad being a perk
Making DLC perks for anti-tunneling isn't a good, it's bad for the incoming players who just want to have a good game experience, they will need to buy a DLC to get this "anti-tunneling" and be able to enjoy matches. Which is why it's scary to make changes to DS now, since it's from the most bought DLC on the store, and also DS is the main reason why people buy the Halloween DLC.
But, acting oblivious of changing a perk to maintain a DLC's sales it's bad, I'm one of those who can't recommend this game to friends knowing thay they will buy a DLC to get an extremely OP perk that makes one of the biggest balacing issues of this game, all because it lacks a anti-tunnel mechanic.
Creating a anti-tunnel mechanic
For me an anti-tunnel mechanic, it has to do both:
A) Motivate the killer to after other survivors.
B) Make the survivor harder to be tunneled.
Example of A):
- Show the killer that the survivor isn't a treat to game objective(reduced gen speed and cleasing totem speed until another survivor is hooked is a way,).
Example of B):
- The last unhooked survivor receives a haste effect of 10%, the effect lasts until another survivor is put on the hook(or killed), or until the unhooked survivor is healed.
Other solutions
I believe there is other ways of doing that, but I think it would need to rework the whole hook mechanic, which is not good, since the community showed they are against that idea.
But what would be your solution for anti-tunneling?
There is one problem with making a anti-tunnel mechanic is the amount off times survivors have unhooked someone before i have even gone away from the hook or moved a few meters away from it it's not funny, Sorry but that's on your teammates not the killer if they go after you and down you again for not waiting for the killer to go away before they unhook you. Why should survivors get a anti-tunnel mechanic when they can't even wait those few seconds to unhook you safely.
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@timbologna said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1598928#Comment_1598928
I'd prefer them to just increase rarity in the web
That still won't fix the problem a lot off people have with moris you can lower the amount off time it shows up in the web but it won't stop killers moti the first person hook soon as they get rescued the killer will tunnel them and mori them. Same with keys and the problem people have with them you can lower the amount you find in the web but still won't fix the problem with keys.
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@timbologna said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1598884#Comment_1598884
Wouldn't a stealthy survivor completely void it if you can't find them? I'd agree to that if they made the hatch aura visible to the killer upon its spawn to balance keys as well as well as add a five or ten second delay to open it with a key.
There are a lot off perks to help find stealthy survivors while in the mean time you have hooked or maybe killed some off the other survivors, if they are being to stealth to avoid being hooked i have found a lot of times there not doing gens because they are trying to avoid the killer.
What would you prefer the way moris are now and having killers mori you within the first couple min or being able to play the game knowing the killer has to hook all 4 people before they can start to mori people?