Why are they trying to make DbD Competitive when they declare tunneling etc 'fair'.
Whatever you might think about tunneling, camping and slugging, you have to admit that if DbD would be played officially competitive these approaches would probably get prohibited by the rules.
And that's the point. the devs seem currently out to make dbd e-sports ready, yet they say tunneling etc are legit tactics, make things more exciting and that frustration is fun.
Like... if they are aware these elements would get barred in actual big tournaments, why are they keeping them in the regular game?
(lbr we know the answer is because it caters to all the bloated ego brats who thing basement bubba is skill and will throw a tantrum when someone had kindred and they depip from it)
Comments
"if they are aware these elements would get barred in actual big tournaments,"
Like the Japanese DBD tournament recently that had facecamping Bubba? or tombstone myers?
Or how about Hexy's tournament last year where most killers were doing proxy camp, tunnel and NOED.
They wouldn't be banned at all in tournaments because they are "legit strategies" whether you like it or not. In fact they can be pretty powerful when used correctly.
Why are they making Starcraft competitive when they declare drone rush etc "fair"
They arnt official tournaments
The Japanese one was a casual setup tournament
and Hexy is a steamer
Behaviour had no official involvement at all.
The finals and semi-finals of hexy's tournament had some very high skill players in there and they all used camp, tunnel and NOED. When you're playing to win and you're playing hard you aren't going to let survivors have an easy unhook.
"these approaches would probably get prohibited by the rules."
Why? They're fair tactics, why would they be prohibited? Its not an exploit or anything.
Identity V has a few competitive matches streamed live on YouTube, and from what has been shown it's not very enjoyable. The killer is put into a position where the only option available to them is camp and tunnel. As an e-sport, DBD has a lot of holes in it.
It's uncertain how they can make it entertaining to watch at competitive levels, without rehashing the entire concept. For example: escaping or 4k is replaced by BP and emblem scores, which would maybe allow for more diverse plays - even then, I don't know how effective that would be.
This IS the reason I run Kindred and when I see a camper I waive others to the gens and we blow through them (with Prove thyself, tool boxes etc) as fast as we can to punish the killer. Maybe then and only then will they stop and play the game. Sorry camping isnt a "tactic" its lazy game play to try and get people to save then down them and you know it so stop making it seem like it is anything other than that. Tunneling and camping will ONLY stop when killers lose enough games that they move on to actual tactics. DBD isnt going to do anything about it ever.
You haven't explained why camping or tunneling is not a legit strategy. The time the killer spends chasing a high level survivor + camping is sufficient to get all generators completed easily. That's 3 easy escapes for the survivor team or a maximum of 1 (or 3) hooks out of 12 for the killer, which are both losses. You see how you're wrong when talking about competitive DbD?
Tunneling maybe if the survivor is good,,,but if the player isnt then he gets downed three seconds after getting off the hook. All your doing is going after the easy target which is maybe a tactic. Hooking a survivor then just sitting there is not a tactic at all, you cant be serious lol?? Killers who think that really need to understand the meaning of tactic
What does tactic mean?
English Language Learners Definition of tactic
: the activity or skill of organizing and moving soldiers and equipment in a military battle.
: an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
Does that sound at all like sitting in front of a hook, esp if no one comes to rescue and you end up losing?
The way the game currently works is this
SWF on coms have at minimum 2 people on gens at all times with one going on the hook and one inside bbq range ready to save. The ones on far gens make themselves obvious to bait and they just rotate for 5 minutes and escape.
This is why slugging and the occasional proxy camp are needed to draw survivors off the gens for any chance to play the game as killer.
You must be kidding?! From your words.
What does tactic mean?
an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
I don't understand why you don't consider camping a tatic, and a pretty valid strategy.
Killers camp to decrease the number of players by 1, because when a match has only 3 players and there's 1 survivor on the hook, if 1 is being chased then is obligatory that the other one will unhook the other. This makes the effective number of players on generators to 0, and then the survivor's progress stops, because if the killer is good enough, by the time the hooked survivor's is unhooked, the being chased is being hooked, and the whole cycle begins. Playing against 3 people makes DbD another game for the killer, and that's why camping is a very valid tactic, because killers use to "achieve a specific end", the one that I just explained.
I'm not responding any more quotes. This is pretty obvious.
": an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end." this sums up the reason for the DS nerf what was strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end about knowing you can do what you want for 1 min, The tactic to hooking a survivor and standing there is getting them out off the match making it a 3v1 not a 4v1 which is better odds for the killer. Unless the survivors know the killer is standing there then at least 1 or 2 will come for the save at the start which leaves next to no survivors on gens for a period seems like a planned out tactic.
Given that the large majority of games I see are not SWF,,,like me I play solo survivor and it sucks but I dont want a team because most of them are toxic anyway. Proxy camping doesnt make me want to go for the survivor it makes me want to draw all the other survivor's to the gens with my Prove thyself and do the gens as fast as possible to punish that killer for camping.
Which is exactly why I carry Kindred and Prove thyself (with tool boxes) and we power through gens understanding that survivor is offered up to help us win the game. Its the only way to stop camping when enough killers lose to it.
I’m sure they did
but they arnt official tournaments
everyone here is just speculating about rules in game that has had no official tournament.
Annnd all that goes away when no one comes to save and by the time that first survivor is dead and the killer goes after the others we have powered through three or fours gens,,,the rest is gravy after that,,,so NO its not a tactic if you lose.
By your very own words:
"An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end"
Tunnelling out or camping a weak survivor is most certainly a viable tactic. As it changes the game to a 3v1, making it much more in the killers favour.
Now the ethics or "sportsmanship" or said tactic are are another matter entirely. But you would have to be pretty dense to not see the merits of tunnelling.
No matter which way you look at be it people power through gens or fall for it camping is still a tactic and won't change it might suck for the person on the hook but the same could be said for killers trying out new killers and facing swf.
I will agree its all relative but SWF plan accordingly ahead of time for campers to know someone may be offered up to help the rest win,,,thats a tactic,,, carefully planned up front and managed during the game. To me, just hooking and sitting there when no one comes (which is increasingly what happens when camping is being used) isnt I am sorry,,,esp if the eventually outcome is the killer loses.
I am sorry,,,if no one comes for the survivor (which is what happens now in matches increasingly) then the killer just sits there. The rest power through the gens and win. I dont know what you think is tactical about that? It may work in the few matches where dummy survivors all rush for the save but most purple and red rank survivors are smatter than that.
Here’s the thing.
The role of killer is SUPPOSED to be villainous. The devs intentionally allow some freedom for the player (as killer) to make “villainous” decisions. It is 1 vs 4 after all. As long as cheating isn’t occurring, it’s supposed to be anything goes.
Part of the “horror” experience in this game is for survivors to perceive the killer as a threat and villain, which is only possible if the killer indeed actually is.
Personally, when I play as survivor I always presume the killer might be a tunneller or camper. The first chase I get into possibly could mean the end of the game for me.
It is of my opinion that it’s healthy for survivor players to never expect that they’re entitled to 2 extra chances. The possibility of 2 extra chances (2 hook rescues) exist, but the game is not designed or intended around a hard n fast rule of survivors should always be given their 2 extra chances, or that the killer should accomodate that.
stop.
This is still a GAME.
A game the devs seem out to make competitive, e-sports ready. This means you have to have mechanics that punish scummy playing, and should undo mechanics like multihit bubba etc.
You got to separate things.
Not to mention that countering scummy playing would be good for gamehealth.
those are not full-fledge official e-sports league things, like what the devs are apparently going for.
on that level you'd see no bubba or freddy until they get balanced out. (also no OoO or more than one flashlight, and no keys)
What you are failing to consider is that there are more ways to camp than just standing in front of the hooked survivor and hoping for some potato to come running for an easy down.
The most effective way is to hook the survivor in-between 2 gens and proxy camp by patrolling between the 2 gens and survivor. When you do this, you are able to effectively protect gens whilst also robbing the survivors of 1-2 teammates.
Just because you can't see any merits to certain strategies, doesn't mean they aren't there.
DBD cannot maintain it’s identity as a horror game if those things change. It’s identity is a strong reason why this game has endured the way it has.
Do you have any thoughts as to my points regarding tunneling?
What a smart answer. Really learn with that.
Maybe this guy is seeing the non-competitive, very casual aspect of the game, where killers camp because they don't know what to do/how will affect the game. Probably because he also does it and don't know the absolute valid and game-changing scenarios to camp. Watching competitive DbD, for example, he could learn that is a such a smart decision to proxy-camp a survivor around a 3-gen setup, this is a very seeked scenario that is game changing if accomplished.
I'm sure he learn a lot reading our commentaries and will change positions. Will just take time.
SWF use a tool that's not in the game voice chat to pass on information they would not otherwise have unless they ran perks and also to balance the load out each person will bring into the match bypassing everything DBD has in place to try and make it a balanced game is that tactics or along the lines of cheating?, if SWF did use tactics then DBD would balance SWF so there are limits on what they can bring items, perks etc making it harder on them forcing them to use tactics.
So, you are saying because it is A (HORROR) GAME this stuff has to stay, but at the same time say it's there because of the LORE?
Like... you are saying, killers would really bother with the hooks or just kick gens instead of utterly destroying them? and don't give me the 'the entity makes them' because, no, that is a GAME mechanic. there is in-universe no need for the hooks at all if you get down to it, so kindly do not try to justify scummy and exploitable mechanics with 'lore'
It's lazy, and it's cheap, but it IS still a viable tactic. You described it yourself: It's to bait other survivors (who seem to fall for it way more than they should) and take them out, which is the killer's entire goal.
I mean sure, I find camping lame too, but there's a perfectly reasonable counter to it as you yourself also described in your very same post.
The “dbd tournament” is giving me that japanese tournament that filled with camping bubbas and myers lol
but these are strategies same as u survivors have a boat load of second chances perks .
I love the idea being put forth that something is only a tactic if you win with it. That's a revolutionary thought pattern that will change how literally all of history is seen.
Q: What tactics did the British employ at the battle of Bunker Hill?
A: None, they lost!
Will definitely make those college history courses much easier for those still in school.
Lol.
Dbd is a casual game by design.
People are making it "look competitive", but it's not. And will never be.
Rank is a value that brings illusion of progression, nothing more.
Sorry stretched res users.
someone has not watched comp DBD.
Survivors run ######### camaraderie because killers (yes even Nurse and Spirit with 5k+ hours) will camp at one point.
Have you ever seen a DBD tourney. This is more or less how they work. The game played optimally involves lots of tunneling camping and slugging. These are even more effective in tourneys since survivors cannot have multiples of most perks. Still only nurse, blight and spirit only ever have chances to 4k.
Like I have tried to tell the other person and now I have to try and tell you
You dont know that, you are speculating
There has never been an official tournament so how would you know what rules or stipulations there will be?
You like the person are just assuming that's what will happen.
maybe it will, maybe it wont
All other e sports I know have the same rules in their game as well as their tournaments. So why would this be any different.
This is where you are wrong
Take overwatch as an example
The OWL has played many times on a different patch from the regular season comp
They actually played the whole of last years finals on a different patch.
How, in a game where things are often determined by a roll of the dice (like map layout, a self-unhook, ect) will this game ever be e-sports ready?
And where did the devs say that's what they wanted?
It's my understanding their main focus has always been making a game that enjoyable to watch on a stream which they have succeeded in hand's down.
Frankly, trying to make this game e-sports ready would be a waste of time.
I really hope the devs do not go down this route
I'm all for making the game more balanced obviously, but 'comp dbd' is really boring in my opinion.
There's a lot of triggered killers in here
In a competitive context, players do everything they can within the rules of the game to win.
If Tunnelling and camping gets them those wins, they're legit strategies.
How can you possibly condone a competitive tournament where killers are expected to NOT play their best and NOT try to win?
This is what is so absurd about the 'survivor rulebook'. Survivors can do any ######### things they like but killers are expected to throw the game for the enjoyment of the survivors. For casual play there's some merit to that, as everyone should be able to enjoy the game, but when it comes to competition, all of that goes out of the window.
Don't like being camped and tunnelled? Don't Get Caught.
It is possible, you just need to play more carefully, stealthy, and less 'running right up to the killer and teabagging them and flicking your flashlight.'
Next you'll be arguing that Boxers have to drag the fight out at least 15 minutes before they knock out their opponent, or that football teams have to allow the other team to score every time they score.
You get that playing a different patch, and playing by completely different rules aren't the same thing, right? If one team in the OWL decided their best shot at winning was keeping the other teams' supports out of the match, and effectively tunneled them every time they could, nobody would stop the match and call foul. Yes they played with the older patch, so that the abilities of each character matched the practice each league team put in, they didn't change the rules in any fundamental way.
You are talking semantics
regular comp played on a patch that changed role que from anything to a 2-2-2 system
yet OWL didn't play on that system for a whole series therefore the rules of the game were changed.
which comes back to my point which you clearly evaded
Noone knows the rules of a DBD tournament because there hasnt been an official tournament.
Is this concept so hard to grasp?
I am not assuming anything or claiming anything
I am saying you dont know the rules because there hasnt been an official tournamet
Please show me a writtien statement from behaviour about the rules of an official DBD tournmant
They kept it the same as the rules had been while they were practicing.
They didn't make special rules for the tournament, they just kept the old set. Every single time a multiplayer game has had a tournament it has done something similar. If DbD did the same thing as literally every other multiplayer game did when creating a tournament, they would be keeping the rules as they are, not making new ones. Given a complete lack of any evidence that they wouldn't follow the lead of every game before them, it is reasonable to believe they wouldn't create special tournament only rules, and at most would use the set that exists at the time the tournament is first designed.
Why is that so hard to understand?
why is it so hard to understand?
Because its your opinion that's why. Its not a fact
like I said to the other guy show me the official set of rules written by behaviour about an official DBD tournament.
First show me proof they are even making such a tournament. We're discussing complete hypotheticals here, why are yours the only ones allowed to exist?
Because I am not making any statements about tunneling in a tournament
go back over my posts
All I have tried to say which seems to be falling on deaf ears is
We dont know the rules of an official tournament because there hasnt been one.
So we can't discuss anything here without solid proof then?
May as well close this thread entirely.
Do you think current competitive tactics don't punish scummy play with a loss?
Fall Guys and F13 are more comp ready than DBD. Why are people still conversing on this?