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It could stay, from recollection we had the 'hook tech' where a survivor would stand behind the person hooked.
Then it was fixed but then survivors couldn't be picked up from underneath the hooked survivor.
Not hitting survivors on hook could be the latest updated solution.
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SWFs hardly need any perks so stock up on the second chance perks to ensure if they do mess around they can easily escape unless the killer runs NoED which makes it more difficult
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Just destroyed a Ghostface using spine chill.
Every time I walked away from a generator the others would also benefit from knowing he was coming.
I think there are far more OP perks with survivor that need to be looked at before Spine Chill however
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Certain perks like DS shouldn't be available in SWF groups.
DS in it's current state is unbalanced.
Survivors get so much free information yet the killer doesn't even know who has DS to wait out the 60 seconds so leads to slugging
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I think Huntress is a good enough reason not to put gameplay through dedicated servers, either that or she isn't throwing hatchets but boomerangs. I'm concerned that gameplay goes through the servers due to some devices that aren't up to spec but are being implemented in crossplay.
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I'm in Europe and constantly connect to US servers... we need dedicated servers but not at the other side of the world with gameplay going through them
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
Dont you get sick on your conspiracys?
@Respectfulnancymain said:
First a swf conspiracy then this. Get a life
You two!!! I'm not sure what conspiracy you talk about as this is called a predication, a conspiracy theory would be that you're the same person :D
DBD2020 (***it will be a few weeks after***) but Dead By December DBD2020 sounds better as I said.
It was and is my predication with how BHVR are running things and with console releases.
Solo survivor vs SWF - Nothing has been done to balance this, in fact the stats are hidden which causes toxicity between players.
Survivor nerfs falling into slow/single areas such as Pyramid head countering DS/BT/Unbreakable the usual SWF meta perks, Breakable walls introduced map by map, maps with infinte loops in the game. *Bugs "Fixed an issue that caused downed survivors to make no sound." I have heard still doesn't work.
Again it is a predication and a warning of it's direction should be taken as such, the idea that someone bumps a post for the "ah you were wrong" vs "ah I was right" to a virtually dead dbd console community kind of describes the toxicity killing this game.
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I've only played him twice so that's worrying if nobody plays him
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So, no then. Except for hiding killers perks and addons till the end of the game
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It's good to know that the immature play style is usually kids trying to copy their steamer.
I had one survivor today who just jumped in and out of lockers. I ignored him until I considered it time to deal with him and hooked them quickly.
Afterwards they complained about their teammates and how they put a pallet on the killers head... the kid must have not touched a generator.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
Yes, they nerf solos so they can change SWF a bit.
For balancing SWFs and solos you need to address hope optimal they are.
I played solo survivor against a doctor with ruin, after being hooked I returned to what was a 90% complete gen to less than 20. This would never happen with an SWF and lost the game with 1 gen to do.
OoO and second chance perks could be excluded for SWFs but if BHVR went the other way of buffing everything it would get crazily stupid imo
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1357184#Comment_1357184
Kindred is basically THE Solo Survivor Perk. And yes, I defend it, because when I lose a game, it is most likely because I was worse than the Survivors. And I think that this is more realistic than being obsessed with SWF.
I'm not saying you're obsessed with defending SWFs but you do respond to many SWF posts I've noticed which is healthy for the forum.
BHVR have hidden SWF information from other survivors and killers which creates toxicity.
As a survivor I like to know if we all played well as solos.
The same goes for killer, being beaten by solos or an swf team. It makes it hard to know if what changes in perks of play style worked or didn't.
For me or seems nobody can think of BHVR ever trying to balance SWFs
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@Todgeweiht said:
SWF is in a difficult spot, don't get me wrong, I hate tryhard 4 man SWFs with OoO and flashlights and SWAT level of coordination, but you don't face them every match and neither do they represent how the majority of SWF groups play. Nerfing SWF is tempting but it will affect the experience of the players that don't play like tryhards and are just trying to have some fun with friends.
In my opinion to balance SWF you need to disable some easily abusable perks like DS and OoO, or any aura reading perks for that matter.
Perhaps they are on console more than pc, I have noticed differences as I progress towards red ranks on killer and survivor on pc
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Oh, another SWF-Thread by this person.
Kindred works now when the Survivor is in a Cage. Which makes perfect sense. And does not affect SWFs that much.
SWF really baffles me how BHVR don't actually address it. I notice you're normally defending it but you are saying that the kindred buff didn't address SWFs and solo survior balances?
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*Sorry to keep mentioning SWFs, I'm happy for friends to play with friends but on this game it can be used as a huge advantage and really do wonder if SWFs are bullying BHVR to not balance the game?
Recently I played a twitch streamer and half their team didn't use perks... perhaps because it was the new silent hill survivor but they still could do things quicker than most solo survivors at green/purple level.
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I'm only buying survivor for OP perk and others are okayish. Killers perks are trash... again
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@DrDeepwound said:
saw a recent poll, zoomers outnumber rest
Wouldn't surprise me, some are mature whilst others copy their hero streamers t-bagging etc
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I'm glad you know I'm coming, the only problem is killers can only run the perk angry spirit
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
I hate swf just as much as anyone else but complaining about it 24/7 isnt gonna fix anything
@Respectfulnancymain I do post about SWFs but not all the time. If your house is leaking water you mention this to your landlord, if others live in the house they mention it too. To not mention it or accept it would make people move out.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Oh, another SWF-Thread by this person. I missed those. /s
And well, SWF was always in BHVRs mind. THis was told on this forum often enough. This "It was never intended" is simply BS.
@Aven_Fallen I'm confused by your post which just mentions "It was never intended" but was not said, nor is it the topic of the post.
@ohheyitsbobcat said:
Even if the game was balanced around SWF's more and every killer got a nice big buff people would still dodge SWF's all the same. People like easy games and knowing if a group is SWF would only encourage more dodging; it doesn't matter how strong the killers are.
@bobcat946732 I honestly wouldn't mind playing SWFs when I play killer if an attempt were to be made to balance. Things like OoO should never be in the SWFs toolkit but BHVR have talked about buffing solo survivors which would mean buffing Killers but then I feel this would be like turning everyone into superheros which would likely not be what was originally good about the game.
@KnotEnthusiast said:
Literally read any of the hundreds of threads on this godforsaken forum of bad killers blaming SWF for losing constantly. ######### killers that don't want to admit they have a lot of improving to do just blame SWF for every loss they experience, and they would just dodge every lobby. Despite the fact that BHVR's stats show that SWF's win percentage is only 8% higher than solo queue.
@Furry_Fuccboi I'm not sure where you are heading with your comments but you are talking about now and my original post would help fix this.
@HP150 said:
They already tried balanced around a fully-comm'd SWF. It was called Death Garden. That game is as dead as it's name implies. As sad as it is, balancing around the minority just doesn't work in asymmetrical games. I used to believe in balancing the game around the top level of play, but no, this is a glorified party game. The sooner you accept this, all of the randomness of who you will face with what perks and where, the sooner you might start enjoying the game again. Or maybe you won't, maybe the game isn't for you and you'll move on. That's fine.
But in any case, it was pretty bad before but the number of full comm'd Delta Force-level SWF that are actually tryharding isn't even worth mentioning anymore, let alone balancing an entire game around it.
PS: "I'm done with this game, goodbye" messages get posted every single day by both sides. It's not really an indication of the overall game health.
@HP150 to be honest I only see the killer quitting posts. DBD isn't like Death Garden in many ways but if they don't balance it for the minority 'Yin' then the majority 'Yang' can't play. I liked and understood your post but don't agree that it should be accepted as BHVR have come a long way in improving their game and attempts to truly attempt to balance the game would create better long term harmony for their product and everyone.
@CashelP14 said:
Some people say they're leaving to try to encourage the devs to make changes, even if they don't. They're multiple reasons why they won't show swfs before games:
- Obviously lobby dodging
- Blaming your losses on them
- Bringing stronger add-ons
- Being toxic just because they are swf
- Swf teams would face the same killers the whole time
This took me 30 seconds to think of all of these.
Also the attitude if its balanced then show it doesn't work in this game. I believe noed is balanced but that doesn't mean the survivors should know the killer has it.
I'd actually ask something. Since solo que and killer aren't balanced (in the killers favour) should solo que players be able to see who the killer is? Make it more fair for them so they don't leave.
@CashelP14 without straying too far off topic if BHVR were to show SWFs at end game people would realise they just have had a bad game or not even.
By balancing SWFs it would make killers not even consider whether to lobby dodge, the fact they do is terrible for all of us and creates toxicity, BHVR should really have made attempts to fix this sooner.
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Thanks for the comments so far guys and don't mean to upset/offend anyone especially SWFs, it does seem to me that BHVR addressing would help avoid some of the disruption in our community.
Again, thanks for the postive comments
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
Why are there 2 different threads from 2 different peoole with the same content?
Indeed, BHVR don't listen to their players
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I think people have been trying to explain this to BHVR about the SWF and solo survivors for ages, for some reason BHVR at best will just nod their head
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@TheCursedTitan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/160313/dc-for-hatch-exploit
If this is an exploit then so is camping, you can’t take away one without dealing with the other, you already get a dc ban if u disconnect from a game, and you get no blood points and depip honestly if the devs deal with this then to balance it out they need to deal with camping
DC'ing for hatch is the same as camping is what I understand from your post.
No wonder this game is heading down the pan
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I'm not saying remove dedicated servers @Aven_Fallen only to configure them so gameplay doesn't have to be echo'd through them.
@LetsPlayTogether I can see p2p being abused but if players computers are monitored with the servers and game then the abuse will be recorded when and if a hit/down comes from it, best of both worlds.
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How can that be @Respectfulnancymain ?
P2P every movement/action can be sent straight to each of the players and vicevera.
Dedicated servers configured for gameplay adds a middleman to repeat everything.
With dedicated servers they should be used but when you have a game that needs instant responses it can only be masked to appear to be working.
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@Chewy102 said:
Grabs work something like so.
1- Killer clicks M1. If the host reads the Survivor is mid action, the Killer is put into position and grab animation starts.
2- The host then checks again if the Survivor is still mid action. If so then the grab finalizes, if not then the grab fails.
That double check was put in place back when DbD used a P2P netcode in order to prevent or limit host advantage. It attempts to make certain Survivors are given a fair chance to react to Killers making a grab by delaying the grab ever so much. And it worked. In P2P. On dedicated servers that double check highly favors the Survivor. It more or less is giving Survivors far more time to react to and prevent a grab than intended. Grabs now work somewhat like so.
1- Killer clicks M1. If the server confirms the Survivor is mid action, the grab starts.
2- Then the server checks again if the Survivor is still mid action. If so the Killer is then told the grab finalizes, if not it fails.
By adding a server into that double check it effectively doubles, if not more, the time Survivors have to react and prevent a grab. In P2P data is sent to host/client. Host sends a check and gets feed back based on the ping and ONLY that single ping. On a server it is player/server/player. Killer checks server, then server checks Survivor, and finally server tells Killer. That means dedicated servers need to go through the Killer's ping TWICE and Survivor's pings at least once before a grab can be finalized.
Grabs aren't the only thing to use this double check system. Dead Hard is almost the same thing. Survivor DHs and tells the server, then the server tells the Killer. That often can make Dead Hard fail as Survivors can't time it well enough thanks to the added lag of servers. By the time a Survivor DHs, he can already be hit server side and end up exhausted and still take damage.
You have to remember that DbD wasn't made to support dedicated servers and is still using a LOT of netcode made for P2P. That is why Shape and Ghostface have problems stalking. Server double checks adding delays. Why charged powers for Huntress, Demo, Nurse, ect have a minor delay now. Server double checks and confirmations messing with muscle memory. It is also why Survivors seem to be hit from miles away as melee hits need the Killer to have priority in order to function, leaving Survivors to be told they got hit well after the fact as the Killer tells the server then the server tells the Survivor they got hit some .5 of a second ago.
@Chewy102 wonderfully described by the way
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I play killer and survivor and it is definitely not fair.
Have you read about the p2p delay code and how dedicated servers create even more time for survivors to react?
I'm trying not to even get into the air grab without even getting a hit, this is so unfair that I'm wondering if BHVR are well aware as they set the grab as a challenge to do TWICE in a match!
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BHVR don't show SWF information so we can't blame what is hidden.
New MMR will be even further down that path of trying to hide imbalances people are well aware of in the game.
IMO until they slow down SWFs they will be able to keep doing this
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Yes
I've recently started playing PC having moved from PS4 and have enjoyed playing killer again.
After almost 2 weeks I'm a rank 7 killer & survivor and only recently playing killer have I had some negative messages.
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@ytduh said:
grab working as it should be
this grab thing not survivor sided, as i know server calculrating killers ping and give survivor that amounts of time to react
unless russian killers grab after 3seconds you stopped genning
Sorry I don't understand what you are saying
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Why don't BHVR make these changes as most would agree they are fairer
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@Akito said:
like it should be? bc the split second when the survivor lets go bc he saw you shouldnt result in a grab no matter what. of course it's survivor sided and yea the game is supposed to have unfair mechanics. like that killer can see their opponents in the lobby but survivors dont. Also for good reasons.
That is the point of this post, the game doesn't asthe split second passes and yet the killer doesn't grab the survivor.
Worst case scenario the killer should hit the survivor instead they should grab the survivor, don't and the survivor runs off not even hit.
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I'm from the UK and on PC or PS4 I only get dedicated servers based in Ashburn, Virginia, USA!!!
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I know the internets littered with them but here is another example of the killer grabbing the survivor but doesn't even get a hit until another action leaving the shack... https://www.twitch.tv/alteeef4/clip/AbnegateAuspiciousMageSMOrc
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So back to the original title of the post, yes the new unnamed perk everyone is waiting to get should be nerfed but financially only after everyone has bought it.
I see it as two perks in one and will see the demise of unbreakable at least on release.
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Depending on how the devs time the selfcare or team healing it can be needed.
Solos tend not to know where others are so the time vunerable to find another team mate can be longer than just selfcaring in a chosen safe location.
SWFs mostly will not see the need as it can obviously meet up at the killer shack for a group hug that can be done in seconds.
The same thing could be argued that BT is worthwhile but like asking the question about selfcare, individually who does the perk benefit?
I'd argue that SWFs need to be balanced to best match solos but thats another thread to make
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Devs have improved/increased sensitivity on controllers which has been a great help and for some killers and most survivors there will be little difference between a controler and keyboard.
However for those survivors or specific killers the keyboard gives a much faster and accurate/precision e.g. Huntress, Nurse, scary cowboy.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
You have to pray that it'll connect, even when it looks like it should. Not even mobile is safe from the curse of the broken grab. Makes it even more surprising that we're still getting challenges that involve a broken mechanic (including one that requires you to get two in a single game, like #########).
I'll be honest and farmed the "2 grabs in a single trial" !!!
For this video I wasn't paying enough attendion and somehow STILL got away with it.
Strangely grabs worked after dedicated servers which would have been unfair on survivors if killer sided but the code is far worse with the killer unable to grab or a missed grab get a hit.
Dedicated servers : Killer=Grab Survivor=Let go == Killer and performed grab time before survivor release time so award to Killer
Coded patch + Dedicated servers : Killer=Grab Survivor=Let go == Noted a network delay in what the survivor saw, so award grab to killer if value from killer grab time to survivor release time - 1 or 2 second being a positive value.
The coded patch would be a good guess but similar code to the patch for getting hit at windows, the grab timing needs to be optimised better.
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@Dolls said:
If 2 guys are in a ring and about to box. The match has started but before any blows are thrown, .one dude dies of a heart attack. Does the other guy get the belt? Or whole match disqualified?
if the belt would be given...then all awards should go to Killer in this situation .
disregard my previous post...there's more to this than my understanding...I don't understand how bp and rankings or any of that works...
Not a great analogy with a 1v1 game or a heart attack?
But replace the heart attack with something more similar of a fighter/player just walking away once the fight had started then yes, the fighter forfeits the match.
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Additionally comments about any killers play style should be penalised by survivors is wrong as would a killer penalising survivors if they DC'd.
Only the game should be able to penalise the players, for killers such as points with face camping or survivors with hook farming.
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@DwightOP said:
3 hooks points and bbq stack
For survivors it should give +2 WGLF stacks for everyone and respective 2 unhook points
Survivors definitely need to be rewarded for a survior DC'ing although awarding the remaining 1 or 2 unhook perk rewards / points to the remaining non-downed survivors is fairer.
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I disagree a few of your killer choices by adding ....
a yellow box for situational and ...
a circle with a line through it as an okay perk but not meta.
I counted 10 perks that are decent.
Looking at the survivor perks I see so many but the key to this would be synergy where killers have less e.g. where you could have old ruin, corrupt and pgtw working together at the moment only corrupt with work concurrently with another. This would be a gen defence build but corrupt is time limited, ruin is cleanable and pgtw depends on performance and luck getting to a reasonably worked on generator before completion.
Survivors used to be able to run an exhaustion perk with balanced landing but exhaustion perks whilst time limited is reusable.
I'd question why Selfcare, Tenacity, UrbanE, Small game, WGTMI aren't mention especially as Selfcare is the most used perk.
There are more decent/meta survivor perks with locker, resilience, chase, generator builds there is far better synergy but with SWF on comms removing the need and adding perks that aren't even available the second chance perks make them take the power role in this game.
The new perk from what I hear is two perks into one with a BT and unbreakable I know like many others I'll be paying for it on release before it shortly after rightly gets nerfed.
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@Frankie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/159918/dcs-should-count-as-3-hooks-for-killers
I agree to an extent. They should count as 3 hooks towards emblems, but the bloodpoint gains should stay as they are.
For the emblems it should count as a full 3 and would agree in the BP and perks such as PGTW, BBQ, etc that this should count as 1 extra hook and gain those advantages.
Survivors can also suffer, especially those that give up on hook... I do enjoy running the map to unhook and for them to let go just as I get there or kobi or dc to play the next game with their SWF friend(s), there can be some selfish survivors who play this game.
I'd go into increasing the DC penalty system but thats a different thread I guess.
As nobody seems opposed to this we just need this implemented asap :)
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Adrenalin but if you're a 4 man SWF all gen rushing I can see it being amazing for end game
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@supersonic853 said:
Actually yeah why isnt this a thing?
Oh come on, someone must dislike this idea? :D
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Playing as a killer using p2p my grabs were frequent.
Since dedicated servers the grabs are a laughable as not only does it fail it doesn't give you a hit reward which you would have recieved if you didn't attempt to grab. Having an archive task of 2 grabs is almost impossible without farming.
What upsets me is that we needed dedicated servers yet it has been implemented incorrectly and now code is having to be written for this which doesn't fully fix it like window hits.
Had the dedicated servers been used with p2p for gameplay with the dbd client software reporting back the code would not need to have been touched and gameplay would have been as before but with automated notifications of cheating being possible.
In the example video I help onto that generator waaaay too long, so it now looks like BHVR have to write code to fix what need not be fixed... I'm guessing the networking dedicated servers was sourced to some third party.
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@BigBubs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1332559#Comment_1332559
Yeah IF you were new, which you are certainly not...
Why are you complaining as if you are though? Hmmm...
At the moment is has become easier to reach red rank survivors than killer, with SWF and more fun being on the survivor side something like this for new killers would mean playing near the top division sides far too early and want to either quit the game or only play survivor.
The new "batch" / "MMR" matchmaking system will be interesting once implemented
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@Steel_Eyed said:
This is the lesser of two evils because to make a yellow ranked killer wait for yellow ranked survivors (which doesn’t really exist) means an extensive extensive queue time. So it’s either play against the survivors closest to your rank (potentially purples or higher) or wait over twenty minutes until four solo yellows eventually become available.
The people complaining about this probably never experienced the long killer queue times from about a year ago or just didn’t know this was the best (and most correct) fix available.
I had plenty of lower ranked players until I hit rank 13, it used to be rank 12 on PS4 when you'd see a red rank.
Lets say these survivors weren't playing double points and go easy on me
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I should mention that I normally play on PS4 as red rank killer and survivor but if I were new to this game...