Zozzy
Zozzy
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You think 4 people knowing the killers every move with synergised perks and maximum gen efficiency in a game balanced around people standing in a corner picking their nose for a while is fun for the killer?
Hmm🤔
The complaints are not aimed at the "i have friends" strawman, they are aimed at bhvr pretending SWF doesn't exist and not toning it down or bring solo players up at a base level NOT THROUGH PERKS!
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Getting weaker as people learn how she works. Won't save her from the nerf though.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678095#Comment_2678095
What's the alternative? Running every change by the handful of people who are inclined to give feedback and letting them have absolute power of veto over everything?
I'm glad you said that, actually. That's the real problem here- transparency wouldn't translate into """the community""" having any actual power over what they do and don't add, it'd just make people mad a little sooner than now. And it would make people mad no matter what- I'm sure you remember how frothingly, incandescently angry people got over the DS nerf, even though it was unambiguously necessary and a good idea.
Nobody actually seems to care about transparency from BHVR, they just think that if BHVR mention something before doing it and they don't like it, they'd have the ability to change it.
Plenty of people they can talk to or hire who objectively know more about the game then bhvr do.
I hate to say it, but streamers and youtubers that play BOTH SIDES should be hired, hell they give feedback for free ffs but are ignored. The reason they are ignored is because they don't care about what generates the most money the fastest way possible (revolving door / free on epic games) and rather the longevity and fairness of the game.
The DS nerf was just a side grade and people are starting to run it again after moping in a corner for a while. it took them 4 years to finally listen to feedback and from what i saw the change was universally accepted when you cut through the rage posts from low rankers.
If they were faster with updates and were actually open to trying things and reverting them if they don't work out, then we wouldn't need to know their plans ahead of time to stop them wasting money.
Its fine to force something down our throats as long as they say they will and take feedback into account to make it fair. I think anyone with half a braincell would have warned them about COH and the boon mechanic in general but here we are, having to wait a year+ before they change it to be fair (or when the killer numbers get to low as usual) where they will do what people have said from day one.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678084#Comment_2678084
Proving my point exactly.
Saying nothing and doing the update without any feedback just makes the backlash worse imo since they wasted development time on something that may be universally bad for the game and disliked.
As we have seen,, once they spend money on something it is going in the game like it or not.
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So never?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2674615#Comment_2674615
Since there's no reason to assume that they aren't, it's still kind of a non-issue.
Given how this community reacts to transparency, I also can't really blame them for being a little more guarded. Guess we just can't have nice things on that point.
Depends what you are being transparent about... If you come out saying "we are going to nerf all killers to m1 only over the next year because new players can't deal with powers" Then how do you expect the community to react?
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@DoctorMadness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676427#Comment_2676427
So we didn't get some map reworks during slingers release?
DS Nerf???
Object nerf???
Hatch and key nerf???
You act as if survivors had alot of broken ######### in the last year
Almost all of survivors most problematic perks and items have been nerfed and killers have been getting buffed constantly since chapter 15
Plague/trapper/doctor/clown/trickster
Killers just got a bunch of addons reworked a month ago which buffed a few killers and now we know legion and GF are next for buffs yet you keep acting like survivors arent getting nerfed? Survivors are finally getting decent perks after years and killers act like its a crime, This game is not harder for killers anymore
Map reworks made them worse for killer. Badham became super safe and has the highest survival rate. Corn maps are still disgusting if not worse with even safer tiles that now fully protect from ranged killers and corn that blocks everything. They use these maps for 1v1 matches for a reason. THE GAME
Crotus penn has more pallets and the filler tiles are anti range with full visibility of the killer. It has some of the most disgusting spawns in the game facing the shack window directly into other strong loops that chain to the main building. You can't teleport to the middle gen any more with nurse from outside of the building without addons
All the map reworks are a disaster with the "innovative" breakable wall system just wasting the killers time to remove infinites that shouldn't be there in the first place and even without the door, some are still really strong.
Plague/trapper/doctor/clown/trickster all still B tier or less. Sure Plagues update was a nice QOL and feels better to play, but it didn't change her strength at all. Clown got a buff?
The update to addons didn't change anything and even nerfed some killers with what they took away.
The survivor perk nerfs were just a side grade. Ds is still Ds and is still meta. If anything i see it activate more than pre nerf. Dead hard got a hefty safety barrier so you don't get exhausted on the ground (buff). Survivor items are still way to strong and got a nice bump with the new and updated perks.
Hatch and key nerf was 1 year overdue and should have been done on the day they deleted moris from the game. No, survivors needed months to prepare for the nerf and ample time to use their keys as much as they could.
Object was unhealthy for the game and a welcome nerf, sadly it retains some use for swf and i have run into some super toxic ones using it recently. A killer knowing where a survivor is is less meaningful then a survivor knowing where the killer is.
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Can't take the little psychopaths toy away from them can we? they might get bored if they can't knowingly harass the person playing killer with non stop click click click click.
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Massive ego hit if they acknowledge needing extra things to beat a killer. Especially so if they lose while using them.
I had a group deny it last week and got them in the next lobby.
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you don't change the meta of problematic broken stuff by introducing more equally problematic broken stuff.
limit boon uses.
The end.
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@Fantasy said:
I'll play some spirit today, she's still good. Might spice it up with some prayer beads so my movement can't be tracked as easy.
Play her base kit and see how you do.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, they clearly hate the side which did receive a lot of Buffs over the last 5 years and favor the side which gets nerfed for 5 years. CoH is the first Perk which is actually Meta after the release of David. Clearly, shows how much they favor Survivors.
I would not even compare Hexes and Boons, the only thing which they have in common is that they have some glowing flame at a Totem. And thats it. Hexes dont need to be build up for 14 seconds like Boons, Hexes are not heard from miles away, Hexes work map-wide.
I am pretty sure they will nerf Boons at some point, but please at least dont complain about Survivors running the same Perks all the time if you shoot against that one Perk that made people change their Builds.
Have not seen many impactful survivor nerfs compare to killer yet. That is unless you call removing infinites a nerf and not just trash tier level design.
The only real nerf to a survivor perk that didn't get 12 months of warnings and ptb's was MOM and that was because it was universally agreed to be bad for the game. Every other "nerf" was just a side grade to the perks.
Killer perks and even entire killers cease to exist past the lower ranks or new players after they are nerfed while the survivor perks are still full on meta and don't really change.
The game is/was better for killers compared to launch, but that doesn't mean it is in a good or fun state, and boons are just bringing the game back to the dark days.
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Proven to be the best way to get a character nerfed.
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I am all for making the ability to remove hag traps basekit without a flashlight.
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@Impose said:
The problem has been, continues to be, and always will be. Map design.
The power creep in this game edging more and more towards survivors is not survivors themselves or powerful perks. (This is some of it but not nearly most of it)
It is BHVR and their map design.
Lets look at the most recent maps. We have, the new Artist map, Boneyard, RPD, Silent Hill, Dead Dawg, and the reworks of Azarov maps Coldwind maps and Macmillan maps, and the Game and Ormund reworks.
Go down the list. Boneyard. Big map not massive. However what other large map with a VERY strong central building comes to mind? Disturbed Ward. Central building has TWO god windows until you break the walls (even then the windows are still insanely strong), and two god pallets, along with a vault off top floor onto bottom floor that connects to the god windows on the bottom floor.
RPD. Jesus christ what else can you say about this map besides good god. It is a colossal map. It would be a big map cut into east/west.
Silent Hill. HUGE two floor map where killer only has easy access to the 2nd floor on corners. Survivors have huge sight lines, several god pallets, two god windows until wall break (this is becoming a theme with BHVR). The most hold W map of the hold W maps.
Dead Dawg. Oh here we go. A pretty decent killer map. Except even with this map being pretty decent for killers you have main building with an upstairs god window until wall break. Depending on the railing that spawns you have the window that vaults from outside top floor to inside bottom floor of main. Killer shack loops to gallows or to double windmill. And forget the THREE buildings along main street that have safe pallets and safe vaults until you break walls.
Ormund. lol
the Game. Pallet central. Literally. LITERALLY. 7 god pallets on the map, two of them in one loop. Several that connect to each other. Top vault from stairs into a pallet on a long wall that connects to freezer window.
Macmillan/azarovs/corn reworks. Hahahahahah
You forgot badham. 3 of the most survivor sided structures in the game + shack and they made most of the filler pallets super safe from normal and ranged killers.
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@EvilJoshy said:
This is what you get when bhvr nerfs killers for no reason. Seriously, was anyone complaining about Billy being OP? This forum is full of whiners but I don't think Billy was on the radar when you had Nurse and Spirit.
Twitter, steam and low rank survivors. Some surv main streamers complained constantly as well and nobody clarified that the complaints were about the addons and just lumped it in as "billy" as a whole. So the dev's gutted EVERYTHING.
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they did the pallet thing on purpose so you can't chain and break. Can't have pallets be unsafe can we?
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Everything here is accurate to what I've been gathering aswell. Let's just hope the devs are going to be smart and leave her as is, or include your ideas as buffs later on
😂🤣 Depends how survivors with 10 hours cope with her and if they close the game or go to the shop after playing against her.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670779#Comment_2670779
Not just survivors. I'm a killer main and I'm on record saying what a fantastic idea boon totems are, with just a few tweaks to the core mechanic and a hefty nerf to CoH specifically.
Mandy's right. Plenty of people do have positive things to say about boon totems, they're just ignored or accused of being a biased survivor main.
Yes, but even you acknowledge it needs some changes. NOTHING has been changed and they are on record saying boons are not game changing enough to require a limitation.
They are the most game changing thing to enter the game as of yet. They have single handedly deleted entire playstyles and have pushed forward the tunnel and camp meta going on.
Why bother injuring a survivor when they will just heal up at no cost to gen time or use of their med kit?
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670637#Comment_2670637
We'll have to see.
Plague got an amazing rework, as did Demo. The changes to addons were fantastic and a few small tweaks to the basekit just made them fun to play. Demo still needs a bit of love (he really struggles in some situations, Shred is a bit too easy to juke and avoid) but both of these were well done.
Freddy was a terrible job. He probably needed a small nerf, but they also took a lot of the fun out of his addons. Ditto Slinger and Wraith.
Pig was...sigh. Shifting around a few addons just didn't help her - she still has to play extremely 'toxic' (chasing people off boxes to try and force them to instadie) because her chase is just so incredibly weak.
If Pig, Wraith, Freddy, Legion, Ghostface, PH, Twins and honestly Hag (she can be effective but 110% killers always feel so damn clumsy, which I suspect is a big reason why nobody plays her, plus her addons are crap) got Plague tier reworks, this game would be so much healthier.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670633#Comment_2670633
People said the same about League of Legends.
Riot introduced the Tribunal, and it was night and day. If I recall, something like 80% of toxic players reformed after their first warning, and 50% of the remainder reformed after their first ban.
Now obviously a Tribunal for DbD is just a fantasy. BHVR would likely never bite. But the key word is 'moderation'. Some more overt, and if needed heavy-handed moderation of both ingame and chat behavior (lul) would go a long way towards improving the experience for everyone.
Hell, you could even try a more 'carrot' approach, by encouraging people to use the 'thumbs up/down' feature to rate their opponents postgame and give some BP rewards when you get upvoted.
Every killer that doesn't throw the game and farm will be banned within a week.
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Its another tool for swf. Solo will not get much use out of it.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672413#Comment_2672413
Why is he going against a high level squad with a brand new killer he has 3 matches on?
Because they need to protect their new investments and shield them from decent killers. New killers are based off your highest mmr killer.
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Uses one of the most op map offerings, then questions why the person playing killer did something else with their time instead of being their toy.
Hope you enjoyed the hook and camp op, looks like you earned it.
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@Hektic3000 said:
Why do survivors get to complete their objective fast and it be a good thing but when killers do the same its a bad thing?
4v1 and the 4 screams louder.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
Man PTB really is worthless, isn't it? Day of PTB everyone including content creators screamed she was amazing, super strong, possibly S tier, needs serious toning down etc. Then she releases and now everyone is saying she's terrible. Then again, people have said that about every character released in the past 2 years.
She had crow mines in the ptb and now she doesn't
That is a huge difference in power
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@vacaman said:
And forgot to mention the validation on everything the killer does. Can't grab on gens and windows, can't hit through deadhard... But don't bother fixing animations when you get validation, who cares.
I was watching a streamer and they held onto the gen until the killer started the grab animation before letting go... the killers arm was stretched out in the survivors pov and they were still able to deny the grab.
So much for whoever sends the signal first wins.
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Boons were the tipping point. People saying "Apply pressure" is an actual legitimate meme now.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2668912#Comment_2668912
It's more that BHVR tend to start swinging the nerf hammer before the dust has had a chance to settle.
Take Pinhead as the best, recent example.
I came back to the game for him, as Hellraiser is one of my all-time favorite franchises.
When I started off, I was doing really well. I'd constantly get free chain hunts, people didn't know how to handle him and I'd win more often than not.
Two months later, I was struggling without addons. People learned how to handle the box and how to juke his chains.
When I played him on Sunday, I got rolled pretty hard. With addons.
What I'm saying is that giving the meta a chance to readjust and letting people learn to play against a killer, then waiting to see if the balance shifts naturally is always going to be preferable to just hacking away the second someone complains.
There is also a degree of 'sour grapes' here, as killers always seem to get slapped with overly harsh, extremely fast nerfs while ridiculously broken stuff like OoO and DS took years to be nerfed and we still have CoH (and now Overcome) which are so obviously game-breaking that...yeah. People get frustrated because it feels like there is a double standard at play.
Bingo.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
My first impression? She's really ######### boring, dull, annoying, a great example as to why BHVR need to stop designing ######### anti-loop killers, a great example as to why BHVR never listen to their community, and yet another thing pushing me to uninstall for good.
non anti loop killers are boring and dull to play as... its just pallet- pallet- pallet- pallet- pallet
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1 hire people with thousands of hours playing both sides to balance the game
2 nothing else needed
3 nothing else needed.
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You know what, let the op have their fun.
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Well of course there were no changes. The dev's said it themselves that Boons are not game changing and must be severely confuzzled as to why they are so meta.
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How is bright blue and white overpowered?
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2668265#Comment_2668265
Pinheads game design of chains interrupting while trying to solve was unfun as a killer main it was a problem being strong in one thing doesn’t excuse bad game design image if you had to solve a Rubics cube you have to do it without moving if you move the cube I instantly resets, while you do that I’m throwing ######### at you it would drive you ######### nuts that was basically trying to solve the box in a nutshell
Did you read pinheads nerf or just gloss over everything but the box change?
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They nerfed pinhead... A killer people were asking to be buffed but the rank 50/1900 survivors got destroyed so they nerfed him.
What makes you think that this killer has any chance to survive bhvrs "FUN" (for survivor) over balanced philosophy?
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good and bad.
The survivors know where the totem they broke is so i doubt it will last long. To take pentimento, what are you sacrificing that would be better?
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Why of course, remember that boons are in no way game changing so should be permanent and have zero drawbacks to using them, ever...
Hell I doubt bhvr understand why they are meta being so non game changing and all.
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Trickster. Everyone else is just a slave to the all mighty pallet.
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@C3Tooth said:
Pinhead high kill rate because the lack of coordination from Solo team over his passive power I believe, not his ability
And people disconnecting... If i get any kind of a snowball going someone usually disconnects dooming the remaining 3.
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I'm excited to see the launch day nerfs and how bad she will be.
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Sane people don't want DBD to crash and burn, they want competition to push innovation and kick the balance/map department up the backside.
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@tenoresax said:
You're gonna have to elaborate on what you mean by "macros and techs".
If it's lag flicks we're talking about, those absolutely have to go it is completely unintended and unfair as hell.
Hug techs on the other hand I believe are just another part of the killer that requires skill and understanding of environment collision but still has counterplay (most of the time), if bhvr wanted hug tech fully gone then they'd have done it by now because it's been a thing for months and months, and it's certainly not an obscure thing because it's one of Blight's most well known tricks.
And as for Alchemist Ring, as much as I hate to say it, it really does need a nerf.
Get rid of the ability to turn after the initial flick instead of just being able to swipe over and over to turn more.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664266#Comment_2664266
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/296869/why-does-nobody-play-death-slinger-anymore
Ey look, i found the "People that Don't Play Slinger, Yet Still Wanted Him Nerfed!"
If you played old slinger, you'd see how much disadvantages you had compare to now..
You're 110%, you can zone... better.i suppose. but at a shittier rate,
i don't want to #########' zone 24 / 7 on all my shots, i want to ACTUALLY quickscope people and drag them in through the hard hitting holes,
Now? People look at slinger like a old dog, waiting to be put down... Don't comment about how easy slinger was when you Never touched him,
Some people just watch a specific creator (recently made a troll video that people thought was real) and take everything they say as fact.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
It is a different game at high mmr and honestly, I doubt most killers crying about it are even still there. Losing kind of lowers your mmr after all, and they are getting eviscerated on the reg.
Dropping out of high mmr or purposely keeping away from it doesn't change the fact that the game is like this. I think any streamer that plays killer on the regular will agree that the game is borked at decent mmr levels.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2662635#Comment_2662635
I mean I wouldn't care as I dont enjoy nurse personally as she plays so different to the others. But any reason why? You dont need DH to beat a nurse, any exhaustion perk is great against her
DH works especially well against Nurse because she must attempt the hit or go into fatigue. This means she is predictable and easy to Dead hard making every chase essentially require 3 hits to down from fully healed.
AKA it screws her over.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I know I'm not a mod but I've had a conversation with a BHVR employee about this that I don't want to send screenshots of nor identify in any way in case I'm not supposed to share anything more. You'll have to trust me on this one.
The QA team and Design team are both aware of the situation, and so bug reports or support tickets are unnecessary are the relevant teams are aware. However it is not currently a bannable offence, unless something has changed recently which I'm unaware of (as I'm going off of the most recent information I've been told of).
Also the mods don't like threads on this because they want to keep the awareness of said exploit as low as is possible.
This probably explains the 180's i saw a specific blight doing a couple of weeks ago.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2662282#Comment_2662282
Bruh. "You're good so you don't get to play."
Even if I purposefully threw games like you suggested, it would take MANY games to dump enough MMR.
If you are good then you don't need that build right?
I manage my mmr and keep it in an area that avoids most of the twitch and sweaty 4 man survivors but keeps things interesting while running non meta. Way more fun and quick queue times.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2662232#Comment_2662232
This would kill Boons. This is almost like "Make them one time use", which is one of the worst suggestions.
14 seconds for blessing a Dull Totem would turn into 22 after one snuffing. I did the Achievement to bless 20 Hex-Totems (and I will never use Boon-Perks again, because IMO they are not better than the Perks I used before), which is 24 seconds each. This was a painfully long time.
If it would be 22 after one snuffing, I dont think many players will bless a second time. Or even 30 seconds and onwards.
Lucky for you that only one survivor needs it for you to get the benefit.
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Then dump your build and relax a little. You are playing meta blight with good addons so i don't know what you are expecting after getting your mmr that high.
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Revert the iron will buff... who am i kidding, this is bhvr and a survivor perk we are talking about 😂