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@Arylios said:
Dodging it will also cause him to get closer to you too. Even if i dodged it, which i do during the match, he will catch up much quicker, and you cant predict where he is gonna blast all the time if he is not visible. If i would get out of the cone i would leave the loop area and then i would be in an open field. That means i have to hold W to a new loop. Or i would just double back, sure, he would probably miss. But for how long can i keep that up. Easier said than done. Even if i pre dropped a pallet, he will still shock me and i will not be able to vault it. And this doctor timed it perfectly before i was gonna vault or drop a pallet. If i were to dodge it he would catch up and hit me. Im saiying, add a small cooldown of 1,2, or 3 seconds. Spamming looks ridiculous.
No, it doesn't. He slows down while shocking. If you loop tight you will always make distance. I'm sorry that a killer's power does stuff. The crazy electric doctor man can do shocks. The horror.
A small cooldown of 1, double that or triple that. Your numbers are entirely arbitrary. It's obvious that you had a bad game and you're kneejerk posting about how whatever inconvenienced you needs to be gutted. Try playing doctor sometime.
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@Johnagon_Infinity said:
Okay, since you edited your post, I guess I'll address that, too. But I won't mock you about it, because I'm a mature adult.
All you're doing is drawing up an unlikely disaster-scenario in which you think you've made your point brilliantly. The alternative is what we have now where people leave the game preternaturally because of any number of odd reasons. Go and solo-que and see how many first-hook suicides you get. The "Kobe" game mechanic is ruining games at a far higher frequency than people wanting to grief for the sake of poor sportsmanship. You're arguing if we don't let these selfish survivors go to the next game, they're now going to turn petulant and take it out on the other remaining survivors instead of attempting to play the game normally.
What is to say they don't act in that manner and instead attempt to do generators or heal teammates? Maybe the unhooked survivor takes chases more frequently now, in an attempt to leave the game quicker. Why is your scenario the only likely one? Maybe if you didn't assume you were correct and everyone else didn't have a point to be made, you'd resort less to personal attacks and think things through a little bit.
The people who leave are tilted and thinking irrationally. As soon as you rescue them you become the enemy in their eyes. The object of their ire. Of course they'll try to sabotage you.
It's odd that you think my very dry, sarcastic responses somehow indicate that I'm upset. You're wrong and I'm very carefully trying to walk you through why you are wrong. It's okay to have a bad idea and it is okay to be incorrect. At least you're trying new things. Today you got to learn something and that is a net positive.
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He's low B tier. His shock doesn't even stop actions half the time due to latency. If you have 1000+ hours and can't dodge the shock cone while looping or simply predrop a strong pallet I dunno what to tell you.
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A lot of these are just minimal number changes. Like, almost pointless ones to where I had to look up the actual difference. You've changed the lower level fixated. Basically pointless. Most of the others are good, common sense number changes.
Except for a few. You've reverted windows back to it's garbage state. Is it meta? Sure. Is that harmful? Absolutely not. It's not a gen speed or heal perk. It's fine.
You've made dead hard the best perk in the game. An on demand DS stun is ridiculous. Say goodbye to ever getting to pick up a survivor ever again. Getting stunned for three seconds every single chase.
Some of your numbers are way overblown. Empathic connection from 10% to 25% for example. You're more than doubling the value. That sort of swing is inherently unhealthy and indicative of power creep, even if it doesn't make the perk busted in of itself.
Nothing survivors bring should give outright immunity to a status effect. That's 1/4th of a killer's build or half their addons countered by 1/16th of what the survivors bring to the table. It's untenable.
I don't think circle of healing needs to be removed entirely. Basekit shattered hope would do it. Most of the methods of applying varying status effects are permanent so outside a few cases(ghost face marked) it's pointless to reduce their duration.
Your fast track is also hard meta. 45% of gen progress instantly? Combine with a BNP and it's just an "I win despite you playing well" button for survivors.
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@Johnagon_Infinity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319609#Comment_3319609
Players may act as "bad actors" and try and sabotage the game for others. Suiciding on hook or "griefing" achieve the same outcome of both being undesirable because of a selfish player. At least my suggestion forces them to stay in-game which is better for everyone.
It's literally not, for reasons I've explained twice now. Do you need a third time?
How about this. I'll walk you through a thought experiment. Put on your thinking cap.
A survivor cannot die on hook purposefully. Instead they run around dropping pallets, bodyblocking you in chase and intentionally missing skill checks. Is this a more fun experience for you than them simply not being there? Think about it carefully.
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Oh my God you turned The Trapper into The Inconveniencer. This is the funniest stuff I've read in ages.
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The only perk that consistently causes blindness is Third Seal. Which requires you to hit each survivor once to get full value out of it. It's typically gone by then anyway. The only survivor perk worth countering is Windows.
It is so niche outside of cheesy slugging builds that gutting it is just ridiculous. Vapid appeals to "solo queue" don't mean anything in this context.
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@Johnagon_Infinity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319602#Comment_3319602
Not pointless. Don't que up if you don't want to play.
Wow, what a rebuttal.
It's going to happen regardless and my point stands. It's more frustrating to have someone actively working against you than it is to not have them there at all.
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Why do you think swf can see each other's auras at all times, exactly?
I'm gonna be honest with you: I quit reading there.
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Pointless. Let people who want out of the game out of the game. If you don't they'll actively sandbag which is a worse experience than them simply being gone.
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I don't do it either, but I will defend people's choice to play however they want. It's fine.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318291#Comment_3318291
Just because you never saw it happening doesn’t make it not an issue. Others do. And even if it’s rare, more than 0 is too much.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318300#Comment_3318300
Hmm, would be willing to see it tested on a PTB.
You're asking for a whole new mechanic for something that basically never happens. It's not worth the developer bandwidth it would take to implement. Moreover there are measures against it: record and report. It's there for a reason.
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@LilKingfish03 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318274#Comment_3318274
I understand what you mean by stunning feeling bad. Which is why with the idea in this current state could leave the stunning survivor open for retaliation; they have to be moving slowly to activate it; they have to complete the shove animation; they are now exhausted. It would be similar to stunning an Enduring Killer with a pallet on the same side as you with no Dead Hard to save you, which is why squaring up with the killer would still be a major risk.
But your point does still stand: being stunned feels bad. What is your opinion of the primary purpose I proposed; moving a player that is holding you hostage?
I literally never see anyone holding me or anyone else "hostage". It is a non issue.
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Four survivors around a baby trapper, shoving him and running back to circle of healing. Survivors breaking walls to create infinites.
Stuns are to be treated very lightly in video games. Having control taken away from the player feels very bad, even for a brief period. Having an on demand, constant stun for the 1 in a 1v4 would feel apocalyptic. No thank you.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Gen Rework:
- Skill Checks: Why make skillchecks harder the more players are on a Generator? This shouldn't impact good players, even if so, it would have a greater impact on lower skilled players.
- Why nerf a Perk like Resilience, which is dependent on the Survivor choosing to stay Injured, and keep a Perk that has no downside?
Item Rework:
- Why make Iri Addons Expose the Survivor? Seems kind of counter-intuitive for something such as the syringe, since you'd never be able to use it in the first place, since you'll be exposed, and put into the dying state. I don't think this is a good idea.
- "Mori last Hook", can you elaborate what you mean by this? This is how Mori Offerings Work.
Slowdown Perks:
- Instead of limiting to one per, which undermines player agency, and looks bad from a design standpoint, figure out how to leverage different mechanics to prevent certain perks from overlapping: EG: Can't Kick Generators that are Blocked by the Entity. Generators that are Blocked by the Entity do not regress. Some Perks, like Pop, have only a limited duration with which to be used, or Ruin, which can be cleansed by Survivors.
Hex Perks
- Adding a dedicated Hex Perk slot is powercreep plain and simple. If your concern is the lack of basic Killer Interaction with Dull Totems, try approaching it in another way than just "Basekit Hex"
Scourge Hooks:
- This change significantly undermines taking a single Scourge Hook Perk, and effectively boosts the Power of the Scourge Hook Perk when used with another, and all Scourge Hook Perks would then need to be rebalanced under the assumption that they could basically be applied to every Hook in the Trial with no sacrifice made to the Killers build.
Base Kit Mechanics:
BBQ: Killer Instinct is more powerful than Aura read as it bypasses all forms of Survivor Aura Read suppression. I do think that there should be some kind of mechanic for the Killer to move to another "Hot Zone", but I don't think base-kit it should be seeing Survivor Auras. Maybe something like showing the Generator that has the most progress on it currently. Which would also help with applying pressure.
Reassurance: Anything base-kit like pausing the Hook timer needs to be done by the other Survivors. No checking to see if the Killer is close or not. Just make Survivors able to pause the Sacrifice Timer by interacting with the Shrine of Sacrifice in the Basement, So the Killer has to either leave the Hook to interrupt that Survivor, or just wait around at a Hook where the Survivor isn't being sacrificed. This also means that this is something a Survivor has to commit to do, which takes them out of the gen cycle, and will be unlikely to be used to the benefit of the Survivors simply from happenstance of abusing chase around a Hook.
Ruin Basekit: No. If you want the Gen to regress by itself, the Killer needs to interact with it in some manner, otherwise you actually reinforce the idea of just sitting on a gen over all else as you get penalized at base if you get off it.
(Pyramid Head Thing) Echoes of Sacrifice: Once again, only make this kind of relocation/anti-camp thing something that survivors must choose to do if a Killer starts to camp, NOT automatic. Maybe interacting with the Shrine of Sacrifice Hooks in the Basement allows Survivors to channel a ritual that will bring all Hooked Survivors into The Basement, or to other Hooks.
Last Hope: Instant Sacrifice gives the feeling of a lack of autonomy, and a more on-rails experience. I do think that something needs to be done against slugging to death, but I think that it should be a mechanic that is active at all times, and not under specific criteria.
Massacre: A bit of an uninteresting end to a Trial. Auto-completed action. Not saying that the issue of "cleanup" gameplay may not be that enticing, but I don't think the game auto-resolving is the best choice.
Punishment: I feel that this is far too extreme a penalty for something automatically done by the system, for such a short amount of time.
I already upvoted but I'd like to reiterate that this is an excellent and insightful post. The bits about killer/survivor interaction and player agency are especially salient.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
Honestly, just make it so Survivors don't get the speed boost off his yellow tonic.
The facts that they do is a horrible idea made because BHVR thinks any Killer change or buff needs to have some sort of Survivor buff as well. Plus the horrid idea that every Killer power needs some sort of easy-to-use built-in counter.
Sadly, that mindset does not work in reverse.
The use of yellow bottles is basically just to set it up at the end of a long loop and purple at the other end. Or to close distance vs the classic hold W survivor. Speaking as a recovered clown main, the speed boost has never once cost me a chase or a hit from the survivor side. It dissipates faster when you're in it so the survivors very very rarely get chance to make use out of it if you do it right.
I'd rather see the bottles on separate quantities like has been suggested many times before. Then when you reload it refreshes both stacks.
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Wish I could give you mine, buddy. I don't even play that guy.
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I had the weird thought last night that the knight is kind of just better clown with the upcoming changes. Speed boost after a delay. Lethal anti loop you don't have to aim.
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In my many hours in this game, I'm pretty sure I have only seen remember me once.
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Jalapeno bodysuit for wraith. Ghost pepper patterned jeans for deathslinger. Sounds good!
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Bad boy timeout box. When the killer does anything survivors don't like they can initiate a vote that requires 2/4 survivors to agree. If the vote passes then the killer is transported to a cage in the middle of the map for five minutes where the survivors can go and bag and laugh at them for being a bad person.
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Isn't that what sprint burst is for?
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316635#Comment_3316635
I'm just tired of the complaining that I broke some sot of rule when they bodyblock. x.x
I always shake my head at them like "you don't want to do this" and give em a fair shot to recant.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316389#Comment_3316389
I may have read OP wrong, but I think the point was to remove bodyblocking, not make the unhooked untouchable.
Because, too often, the BT effect is used to bodyblock the Killer by the unhooked to prevent them from getting the unhooker. And then the unhooked whines they were 'tunneled' when the Killer (rightfully) smacks their butt into the mud because they never left.
In sort, BT is being used as a weapon. And then the unhooked goes ShockedPikachu and whines they were 'tunneled', as if they expected to bodyblock for free and then be allowed to run away.
I'm fine with it being used tactically like that. I have always taken it as a ticket to stick them back on the hook. If they complain post match: oh well. You reap what you sow.
Deciding what to do post hook facilitates decision making and agency on both sides. I like that. Anything to give a little wrinkle to the game's complexity.
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It's about to be more pointless with action icons. No wondering whether the killer is going to respond to your scream. You'll know because of the icons. Time to get on a gen.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316607#Comment_3316607
Despite what you say, she isn't weak. Just because you are tired of a playstyle it doesn't mean it's a bad or makes her a weak killer. The fact that people change her playstyle drastically to cope with the top 5% MMR without resorting to 'we have to camp and tunnel to win at high MMR' with only a 2% loss in win rate from the overall MMR measurement is testament to her not being weak at all Her stats speak for themselves - whichever way you want to twist them.
Those stats, by the admission of the person posting them, mean very little. When you balance a game you don't just look at raw numbers and decide what to do. You look at context of the game as a whole and player feedback. Nurse was lowest wr killer in that batch. Can you argue in good faith that she's bad?
Sadako has a lot of stuff in her kit that works against her. Exorbitant teleport times. A condemned mechanic that never really does anything unless the survivors let it. Stealth powers with a lullaby, for God's sake. There are so many easy and common sense buffs that would make her many times better to play.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
My problem with these scenarios has basically nothing to do with tunneling, but rather camping.
I almost never see instant unhooks as survivor or killer, ever. And I don't hold it against a killer to hook, break a pallet, circle the area just in case and then leave.
But I get an incredible number of killers who never leave the hook, or patrol literally nothing while keeping the hook in view. No attempt to go interrupt gens or apply pressure, just waiting for the unhook for an easy trade.
Base kit BT lasts 10 whole seconds. If someone is actually blocking a hit with it, maybe you should be asking yourself why you're back at the hook so fast.
These are the killers I picture screaming about gen speeds, because they never attempt to pressure gens. They only ever interact with the hooked and unhooker and then wonder why the other two are 'gen rushing' rather than standing still afk.
That's like half the point of hooking. Bait for a new target.
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Honestly just glad to see wiretap getting some mileage.
Your build is horribly boring, by the way.
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@Gamall said:
Who said she deserves buff?
Me? Outside condemned she's pathetic and there are so so many minor buffs you could easily give her that'd bump her up a tier.
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People have actually suggested this many times. It remains a cool idea.
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So you want to remove the option for a killer to go after an unhooked survivor entirely.
This is removing options from killer and simplifying gameplay. People throw tantrums over it, but sometimes you just have to go after the surv that just got unhooked. You can't find another target or gen progress has you up against a wall. The perks and base mechanics you're addressing do not need buffs
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This is good to me except for the walking thru pallets thing. I really really really wish people would stop proposing that. It's either at normal walking speed and busted or she slows down and it's not worth it. Not worth pursuing. Breakable walls might be okay. Mostly just for jump scares though.
Your distorted photo just gives her Dr's power which is pretty goofy. Dependant on them looking at her but still.
Everything else looks good. I think survivors should put TVs on a longer cooldown then her teleport in order to promote interaction but that's just a nitpick. I'd love condemned to do something else than it does now. It's so uninspired and cheesy.
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So one survivor gets a free escape every game? 3ks are now the win condition?
Nah.
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What nerf? I've seen little indication of a nerf.
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You want someone to be punished because they did something you don't like. Juvenile. No one will take you seriously with this mindset.
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@FeryGEN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315998#Comment_3315998
Many blindness addons have a very short period, I tried to play this way.
Yeah, you've gotta use third seal for consistent value. Is it good? No. But it's fun to use it and see 3/4 Windows at the end game.
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I don't understand why your post says it's not possible to lose a chase because of autoaim when the video you citing is otz losing a chase because of autoaim. Mistype? Am I reading it wrong?
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Give everyone fifty pips per game. Who cares? It's insane to be that people even pay attention to the pip screen.
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I like windows at is it. Aside from slugging builds it being in the meta is the only thing that gives Blindness value.
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I read an idea that he should be able to teleport to exit gates a while back. Makes sense to me, since two of his perks influence them.
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Another top tier thread from "NERF KILLERS"
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Unpopular opinion, but I like it and I see the point of it. As survivor it obscures the killer coming for you and as killer it makes you think about your aura perks a little bit.
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@MrsMaliciousX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315493#Comment_3315493
I do play killer. And honestly if I 4k, I 4k. If I get steam rolled I get steam rolled. I don't take this game THAT serious. It's not worth "sweating" over. I'm a casual dbd player, asked me 3 years ago it would be a different story. Taking a year break really changed the game for me. I think more people should do it.
Then why on earth are you posting in us vs. them terms? You should know better.
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The issue is that there are comparatively few killers compared to survivors. It's better than it used to be, but it is sliding back.
So to go with your example: you've got 300hrs(or whatever) and the game initially tries to match you with survs with equivalent hours or average it out. Then it tries to find killers with 400~600hrs to equal the average of your team. Doesn't find any. Then it expands it to 400~1000hrs. Nothing. Eventually it gets to extremes just to find you a killer to play vs and you get situations like yours.
Replace hours with the invisible MMR number we're all assigned and you get the gist.
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@shiroo said:
Out of my last 10 games...at least in half of them (I wish I was exaggerating) killers just start to hard tunnel at 4-5 gens...
I thought it was just a bad weekend but the trend continues. I understand that you often need to tunnel for pressure but in Solo Q? When not a single gen is done? How can this be a good experience for anyone?
Either first person gets tunneled out or just DCs leaving 3 ppl in massive disadvantage.
You want to keep allowing this kind of gameplay? Fine, but AT LEAST introduce some kind of BP penalty for this in early game. Because it's just insane to me that killers get rewarded for this BS.
After 2 years of playing this game I accepted a lot of things, both on surv and killer side. But this is just crossing the line. The games are getting less and less enjoyable because of this.
I need you to explain precisely what you mean by tunneling and the circumstances around it. The way people use the word varies wildly.
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@MrsMaliciousX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315416#Comment_3315416
I wanna be able to end killer game play as fast as you can ours
"Ours"? You only identify with survivors?
Bizzare. You're playing half a game you purchased. Play killer and get some perspective.
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@MrsMaliciousX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315322#Comment_3315322
Killers camping and tunneling every game is the issue. People would use the perks as much if there wasn't so much of that stuff. It's gotten ridiculous even with the Gen increase speed. I had a dude in my lobby that brought in a MEDKIT killer tunneled him to death for it. Like really? That what this game has come to.
You've been called out on your bad false equivalency and now you're screeching about camping and tunneling. Completely unrelated. Go in for the greatest hits and make your next post "solo queue bad".
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@HugTheHag said:
Rather agree. I'm ######### at timing and I don't trust latency, so I don't use DH (in most of my builds, I don't even have an exhaustion perk).
And every time I get hit by DH when I play killer, it's because I jumped the gun on hitting instead of waiting 0.5 second. I can live with that.
Is this the new tee hee I only dead hard into walls! You know it's getting dire when people are being self deprecating about it again.
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Risk? What risk? Hit E under pallet. The killer respects and you get another loop or get to chain the loop or they don't and you get another loop or to chain a loop.
My primary issue with it is how tedious it makes every single chase. Hug the survivors ass for five seconds to see if they use dead hard. Every time, because you can't swing without being certain. The obligatory spin spin spin under my FoV. Very cute. I get it.
Honestly every time I see a sprint burst or lithe i breathe a sigh of relief. That's getting more rare now though. We're back to 3/4 DH per game.
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@SmolBlob said:
Please no, bigger hitbox please. That would prevent lunging to break a lock.
Really? Is the lunge hitbox that different?