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Posts like this make me understand why the autoban system never got implemented.
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Yes please. The number of times I've burned my last white ward by accident is ridiculous.
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@SmolBlob said:
Take a deep breath. Relax.
Camping and tunneling are strategies that have inherent counters built into them. If a killer is camping or tunneling, that means they are not pressuring gens or other survivors, who can punish the killer by getting gens done in the meantime. There are also perks meant to help with this, such as Deliverance, Off the Record, and so on.
Several survivor perks were nerfed because they were unhealthy design and could be used in situations they were not meant to be used in.
Nurse has already been nerfed several years ago as part of a mini-rework, and the reason she hasn’t been changed since is because her basekit is perfectly fine. Most players just do not know how to play versus her correctly.
Ah, you had me until the last bit. Why ruin a perfectly good post with nurse defense?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306610#Comment_3306610
Pretty standard out here to be closed the week between Christmas and New Year, we'll be back in the office next week!
I have got to get a better job
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306209#Comment_3306209
A system of tunnels that only the killer can use to traverse the map? That sounds kinda sus...
Oh God you're absolutely right. That was the inspiration
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@entertainment720 said:
Thank you for reporting this issue. It has been shared with the team; however, the office is closed for holidays currently. We will update once more information is available.
Hot damn that's a generous vacation package. Yall hiring?
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@Nazzzak said:
I've been thinking for awhile that stealth play is no longer viable in this game. Between the scratch marks, injured noises, pools of blood, Iron Will nerf, footsteps, and the multitude of aura perks killers seem to get every release now, being stealthy is clearly something the devs want done away with.
And yet, parental guidance. A very underrated perk that gets rid of all that stuff very easily.
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It's really not absurd. I read an idea here once where there would be a system of tunnels in each map the killer could traverse on a cooldown to help out killers without mobility.
I think it, like yours is a rough idea with a lot of potential and good merit. Yours also incentivizes leaving the hook which is very nice
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Spacing out gens even more gives killers without mobility or ranged abilities more territory to patrol, nerfing them by extension. So no.
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@Yoshirama said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305559#Comment_3305559
A game that makes you do nothing for a certain time is bad design, is a bad experience, that's why incap needs some change
A lot of stuff is a bad experience for the other user. That's PvP titles in a nutshell. You have stuff to stymie your foes, they have stuff to stymie you. If you remove all that oppositional content you end up with a watered down experience that doesn't appeal to anyone because it feels like you cannot effect the game state.
Is there a limit to that stuff? Is it a balancing act? Sure. But a perk that requires the killer to kick a gen then down a survivor before that gen is completed is hardly the worst possible offender. Stripping out the core of the perk is a mistake because it'll leave it very bland.
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I agree that after say, 50% of the bleed out timer is gone there should be an option to expedite the remaining time.
But why add in the dig toward killer players at the end of your post? Is that really necessary? It's an idea with merit poisoned by pointless us vs. them invective.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305562#Comment_3305562
That is demonstrably untrue. A fully charged hatchet at mid range is unreactable.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305584#Comment_3305584
Trickster can toss a knife in the air to force a DH. He doesn't have to wait it out.
Blight doesn't have to wait for fatigue, just rush past someone, bump past them, and rush back after they inevitably use DH.
Nemmy pre swinging at pallets is the cause for eating a DH. Fake the power at pallet or wait for the animation to swing.
Artist definitely cares about DH. As an artist main, eating a DH loses me a lot of time.
For anyone that says DH is reactable, I volunteer to do this experiment with you. We hop in a custom game, and you react to my hatchet with DH.
Ah, the 1v1 cowshed challenge. A true classic.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305490#Comment_3305490
I mean, are we now specifically discussing killers using their power to down? Let's see. The killers that can down with their power are Billy, Nurse, Huntress, Bubba, Spirit, Plague, Oni, Pyramid Head, Blight, Twins, Trickster, Nemesis, Artist, Wesker, and Knight. Let's look at each individually.
Billy and Bubba should never use their chainsaw against an injured person, so they're out.
Huntress and Trickster can respectively hold projectile and toss a stray knife to bait out DH.
Nurse can blink once to bait DH and a second time to actually down.
Blight can bump through you to bait DH and back again to down.
Oni can cancel a Demon Rush on top of you and M1 normally to bait out a DH.
Spirit's power is unreactable if she uncloaks on top of you.
Twins can bait out DH by holding Victor braced before pouncing.
Nemesis can ready up tentacle and delay the use.
Artist can set up a bird to shut a loop and not shoot it immediately when they're within line of sight to avoid the DH.
The only ones that have a power that is relatively predictable to DH are Plague, Pyramid Head, Wesker, and Knight. Should we now do a breakdown of why other perks are equally as good, if not better than DH, against these killers?
I'm gonna let all the wacky stuff you said here slide just to ask what the Christ are you talking about baiting out hatchets? You can DH them on reaction, there's no baiting required. They're big, slow projectiles.
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@Yoshirama said:
I just want the incapacitation effect to go, is a bad design and is not healthy.
Or they could just reduce the range like jolt, so at least a survivor could get downed far from the affected gen
The incap effect is literally the entire identity of the perk. I'm not a fan of eruption either but I value it as a unique entity and I'd see that preserved in some way.
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They'll never punish people for simply wanting to play with their friends by segregation them into their own queue. If you are not having fun as killer, try survivor.
This reads like a typical new player kneejerk post. Know how I can tell? The suggestions for how to play vs. a particular killer only come up the first two (?) Times you play against that particular killer. Come on.
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@Sycamore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305320#Comment_3305320
There is a significant difference when you know where to go next, and know a head of time if a pallet has already been destroyed. You can completely avoid dead zones.
The nice thing about Windows is that it makes blindness actually valuable outside of slugging builds.
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Any meta is going to feel tiresome after it is cemented. I think variety is much improved.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305028#Comment_3305028
You can imply that I am saying something I am not all you want, while ignoring what I am actually saying.
What you're saying is that you want a button that tells survivors "Actushully guys I could have beaten you at any time but I'm just chilling!! No really!" You don't need a button for that. As another poster said you can simply play that way. It doesn't matter whether or not they get the message so long as you got to do the stuff you wanted to do.
Unless, of course, they don't get the message and your ego gets bruised. Can't have some random people thinking you're just bad at killer, right?
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304974#Comment_3304974
Because if I just chase one person and don't pressure gens all gens are done in under 5 minutes and everyone leaves.
That's the price you pay for playing inefficiently. Sounds to me like you want survivors to know you're not playing seriously for some pride reason. Who cares? I've had many games where I just two hook everybody and spend the remaining time chasing the best survivor. If you do a successful mind game and nod at em instead of hitting they usually get the hint.
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Five "boring" in a single paragraph. Truly remarkable boring density.
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Ugh. The obligatory appeal to solo que. Every time.
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I just wish there was some feedback about me compared to my opponents. If I'm strapped to the MMR treadmill I'd like to know my progress on it.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303421#Comment_3303421
She loses her power gradually, the more survivors are hurt. It’s a side nerf from my perspective. She wouldn’t be able to do some of the ultra oppressive stuff she does now but still strong.
I’m not sure how the blinks were buffed. She loses them. And after sucking the breath from a survivor her blink would be on cooldown with a longer charge time. So she can’t immediately down them right after.
You don't expound upon any of this stuff in your post, friend. You say she blinks to a survivor and hits them....... nothing about the blinks costing anything or them running out or anything. The way you describe it is just giving her extra utility. You don't mention any downside at all.
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I hardly ever see it. It's an okay perk. Doesn't need nerfs.
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I like it. Very cute. I'd rather them just grab the surv by the arms than conjure a stretcher though.
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@Chiky said:
no thanks
Okay. But why?
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There's no reason to play any game you're not enjoying. It's hardly the devs' fault.
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Funniest thread I've read in ages. This entire post reads like New Player Complaints 101. Ghost face? Really?
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@Gandor said:
If you are talking about level where people don't know what to actually share, then ok. You are right. But I thought the game should not be balanced towards beginners.
Or do you mean to tell me someone with more then 10 hrs in a game would struggle to think about sharing info like "killer is on me", "who is going for that save?", "is anybody blessing that NOED/dhope/...."or any other basic kind of information?
We are talking about icons that provide you information about what is somebody doing. Not information where it's happening, what is your future plan (what will you be doing in a few seconds), where will you be doing that or any other information like that - which is already something decent SWF does (and I am talking about generic plans for the future - there's still pinpoint exact information godlike SWF can share with each other (that are the teams people here complain about) will provide you with actually precise estimates of when and where and how (if relevant) people will go down in the future - to actually ask for help from teammate to meet him in specific spot nobody is in right now, where that other teammate will take hit for chased person to actually prolong the chase for another half a minute or more).
Maybe you should watch at least one game from any comp team or any strong SWF team (like Hens's group) to see what kind of information they will (and which info they won't) share with each other and then compare it to this action icons and things it provides (touching this topic around the edge - even these insane guys that hold more then 200 games winsteak do loose against supaalf's nurse - out of 3 games that they showed, it was 1 win 1 loose 1 draw - meaning even this insane kind of information sharing will not make you invincible and the game will still be about your and killer's skill - but sure, taking strongest survivor stuff you would need to take strongest killer's stuff - in this case nurse, or blight or spirit and almost nothing else).
Icons don't give you those abilities outright - they let you infer it. If you know what others are doing at all times, map wide, for free, it lets you know what you need to be doing. It's the tiniest bit of gamesense to elevate mediocre players into good ones and good ones into excellent ones. Macro play matters a great deal in this game.
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@Sycamore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302847#Comment_3302847
Because SWF had to share the information - they didn't get it for free.
Now all the information is free. It's a buff to solo. It's a bigger buff to SWF, because now not only do they no longer require to share that information, but they can fill that time with sharing other information more consistently, like the Killer location, and other player locations.
It was suggested more than once that they implement a quick message radial for survivor, so that survivors would still have to share information, but instead they decided to go with the option that doesn't close the gap, and does nothing but provide Survivors with another buff.
It's honestly super refreshing to see someone's else who realizes this.
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@barsw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303336#Comment_3303336
Nah she needs strong nerfs and what you are saying wont affect on her
She doesn't need strong nerfs. Every killer should be viable and enjoyable. Trim her kit until we figure out what works. I'd suggest starting at chain blinks as special attacks. Work from there.
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Is this a rework or just bizzare buff? It doesn't seem like you touched any aspect of her power, just gave her the ability to apply broken to survivors on a permanent basis on top of aura reading and buffing her blinks. Which uhhhh.... She definitely doesn't need. The rare buff nurse post.
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It works exactly twice per game. It's fine. This seems like a kneejerk post from a bad game you had.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302921#Comment_3302921
Then criticise that, rather than harshly insulting people for daring to say "hey maybe this unfun and problematic aspect of the game could be fixed".
Tunnelling does not have to be in the game. If you don't think these incentives are good enough, what would be? How would you suggest tweaking the game so that everyone has a fair shot and isn't removed from the match as quickly as possible?
Hell, I don't even think tunnelling is that bad at the moment, but the act of being hard focused out of a match as quickly as possible is hardly a good thing to be possible for the sake of the game's overall health.
I think you are confusing me with stabby-widdershins. I haven't insulted anyone. Their avatar is green.
Hard anti-tunneling like what op is suggesting (very overwrought) can only happen when getting two hooks is viable on bad killers. For that to happen the entire game has to be adjusted. It's simply unfeasible.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302899#Comment_3302899
It doesn't have to be "playing worse", that's why OP laid out incentives and rewards for killers changing targets. Whether you think they'd be enough or not, the intent is very clearly to make tunnelling not the most effective way of playing-- and by extension, making spreading your pressure across multiple targets not "playing worse".
For the record, I agree with you about generator speeds needing to be included in this conversation, but it's an entirely false equivalence to reduce things down to "the survivor objective" and "the killer objective" when the entire point is that killers tunnelling directly affects human players and survivors focusing generators directly affects inanimate objects. You are correct that killers are players too, which is why they'd need incentives and rewards to ensure that they aren't just being forced to play less efficiently (as OP already acknowledged and attempted to address), but you don't get to pick and choose. Just as much as you can't say "sucks to be you, killer", it very much goes the other way; you cannot say "sucks to be you, survivor" either.
Everyone's fun matters, and it's a silly framing to insist that it's a competition where one side's fun must necessarily involve making the other side less fun.
Also, just to head it off, I play killer. Not a survivor main.
Their incentives are pathetic and irrelevant compared to snapping the knees off every killer and tacitly saying "Yes, you have to two hook everyone". It's simply not viable most matches.
Sometimes you get tunneled out. It's ok. If you're good enough you bought your team enough time to escape during the tunneling and that feels pretty good. The game isn't always going to be puppy kisses and rainbows. That is the nature of a PvP title. You cannot control your teammates. You cannot control your opponents. Games are not going to go in your favor.
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Jesus Christ. They already implemented base kit BT.
How about you just make it so survivors are intangible for 500s of off hook until they press E. Then they're teleported to the location farthest from the killer and are fully healed. They're immune to aura reading for uhhhhh.....10 minutes after being unhooked. How about that?
Oh, if the killer has the audacity to hook the same person twice in a row then they look at their weapon and whisper "what have I done??" Before collapsing to their knees and weeping for the remainder of the game. Because they feel bad about their crimes.
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@burt0r said:
Okay, it has reached a point of comedy to see the "stop the hook timer when killer is in X radius for Y time"-idea getting proposed again and again and everytime the person that posts it thinks or presents it as NOVEL, when it is already 4-5 years old and didn't work in it's iteration back then.
I swear to God it's 7/10 posts for for new accounts.
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Camping frustrates people and so they want a punitive action for it. You had a bad game and so you want to get back at the Killers and make sure they have a bad game. The whole cycle is pointless and vicious. Give killers an incentive to switch targets and go somewhere else. There's a myriad of ideas about how to accomplish this and any one of them is better than punishing killers for doing the thing that they want to do.
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People really underestimating how powerful these icons are. If you have any game sense it replaces kindred Bond and most other aura reading perks. Knowing what everyone else is doing at all time, for free, across the map informs all of your decision making. You can infer what they're doing even if you can't see them.
And the tired solo queue complaints. So sick of it. They're nothing but the same complaints that any team-based online game gets. People do not do the stuff you want them to do. They never will. It's frustrating but it's endemic to the whole experience and if they did exactly what you wanted they would just be bots and the game wouldn't have a lot of replayability.
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I would be fine with just another slot in the Shrine.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301753#Comment_3301753
Nerfs? i wasn't really trying to nerf them, well besides the camping/tunneling aspect, nurse, blight and spirit. Was i really that bad?
No no no. Not bad at all. Some good ideas I've not seen before. I just don't think, for example, neutering legion's game delay for seeing blood is needed. The blood is far less consequential so it's overall a nerf. Like restricting trapper being able to trap up areas he's traditionally strong at in exchange for not having to pick up all traps at the start. It'd feel really clunky to not be able to use your power within an arbitrary range.
I especially like the nurse one. It's a very simple nerf that tones her down while keeping the core of the killer intact. Very simple and smart. Oh yeah, giving survs feedback on when spirit can phase is very clever as well.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Ok, this sounds fun. Here i go:
Trapper: Let him start the game with all traps, but make a radius so traps cant be placed to close to each other (aka, no more trapper puting a bear trap in all exits from killer shack.
Wraith: Visual indicator of the lightburn, just to better judge if you can decloak in time or need to protect yourself
Hillbilly: Rework the add-ons
Nurse: Second blink cant go through walls, blink attacks special attacks. Stunning removes all charges
Myers: Increase pallet breaking speed at tier 2 and 3, survivors regain some stalk points after each hook (10 points maybe)
Hag: Traps to close to hooked survivors are destroyed (10m) and cant be placed next to them either
Doctor: Terror radius increase from 32m to 40m, make the illusionary doctors move, illusion pallets basekit
Huntress: Better hitboxes on the hatchets, rework iri head to be a instadown from a distance (20m), but only reducing the number of hatchets by 2
Bubba: Reduce chainsaw charges when near a hooked survivor
Freddy: Dream hexes that give freddy aura reading on the survivor that interacted with it for 20 seconds
Pig: Terror radius 24m, better crouch speed, dash attack now vaults pallets and windows, survivors can now instantly remove a bear trap on any box, but they become broken for the rest of the trial
Clown: Remove the blinding effect of the bottles, give a speed boost to actions when invigorated (vault, breaking pallet, picking up survivors, reduced stun duration)
Spirit: Make the passive phase only appen when she has her power ready (when not recharging), make her phase slightly during phase walk, loose charges after a stun
Legion: Reduce the mending time, make him able to see blood during feral frenzy (similar to victor or bloodhound)
Plague: Visual indicator for when a survivor is immune to damage after a corrupt vomit, no more fake infections (survivor in your screen acts like the vile hit, but the game doesnt register), better pool placement, maybe prioretize close to gens and on base floors of maps, remove corrupt after any stun, not just pallet.
Ghostface: Better crouch speed
Demogorgon: Being able to buy him, reduce slightly the hitbox of the shred (make it similar to wesker), ability to replace portals and maybe limit some of the map wide cues that he using his power, maybe only if you are within 40m of him you can hear the sound cues
Oni: Better passive blood rate
Deathslinger: Terror radius 24m, and some better add-ons
Executioner: Add-on rework
Blight: Nerf most of his problematic add-ons, bigger cooldown if he misses a letal rush swing, loose tokens after a stun
Twins: Ability to switch back to charlotte during the post hit cooldown, increase the regrow duration from 6 to 12 seconds. Victor immediately appears on charlotte after a hook, inability to switch between charlotte and victor when one of them is closer then 12m from a hooked survivor.
Trickster: Remove main event timer, make it so you can activate main event while a survivor is hooked, effect lingers for 8 seconds
Nemesis: Make so zombies loose collision with survivors after a hit (from nemesis or zombie), make it so tier 3 nemesis always injures a survivor even if not infected
Cenobite: Chains dont target a survivor with the box
Artist: Better add-ons, stuning artist removes all current placed or swarmed crows.
Sadako: Survivors now spread condemed to others when placing a tape (1 point for others), reduce the cooldown on tvs after teleport, increase the cooldown if survivor do the tapes, being close to a active tv increases condemnation passive (lets say half of speed as if you were carrying a tape). Fully condemed survivors are no longer moriable unless in last hook, but they are exposed. Loose 3 points of codemed if down by Sadako while fully condemed
Dredge: Less darkness, i want see something, some maps are just horrible.
Wesker: Make the infection restart from 0 after a hook, instead of 50%
Knight: Allow him to select each guard by using tokens (1 of each) after all tokens are consumed all tokens are refreshed immediately.
This is a very haphazard mix of buffs and compensatory nerfs to killers who absolutely just need flat buffs. A few standouts are your nurse, doctor and Freddy ideas. All of those are really interesting.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301690#Comment_3301690
None of the stuff you said is a refutation of my point that you can't force people to stay in the game. It's just bland attitude affirmation.How come I don't hear this bunk in other PvP games? No one ragequits in Overwatch and then says 'Well! You can't FORCE people to play in a match they don't like!'
Imagine if that worked in the NFL: "Well, Bob, the Dolphins have decided to pack up and leave early, since they were down 15 points going into the second quarter! Guess everyone can go home! No one can FORCE them to play if they're not having fun!"
It's like the DBD community is uniquely entitled enough to think "I should be able to bail on any match I hate, and screw my teammates!"
My idea PREVENTS Hook-ragequits. Because they are a problem. Which, by the way, you have not refuted yourself. All you said is 'Well, you can't MAKE people stay in a match!'
Yes you can; Toughing out a match you 'don't like; called 'Being a good sport' and 'Thinking about your fellow players'. There, I refuted your non-argument.
In Overwatch people simply jump off the map or run into the enemy team when they don't want to play a match for whatever reason. It they really want to avoid a report they go Lucio or whatever and just go for boops. The Dota equivalent is just running down mid. I'm not sure whether you're trying to gaslight me or yourself by pretending equivalent behaviors don't happen in other games but the assertion is laughable.
I'll say it simply, one last time. Listen. You cannot force people to stay in a game they do not want to be in. They will just sabotage gameplay by other means. Better to get it over with than stretch out an unwinnable scenario.
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@Genesis said:
As I said, the duration is probably OP but I do think that the perk itself is weak. There is a reason why basically noone runs it.
The reason no one runs it is because people get used to their crutch perks and don't branch out. It's not a bad perk, merely overlooked.
You're also not considering this from the killer's point of view. You haul someone to a scourge hook and it just doesn't do anything. You run pop and call of brine and it just doesn't do anything. You hit a Jolt on two gens and it doesn't do anything. Your good play goes unrewarded because three survivors brought the perk that cancels out half of what you do. That's gonna feel awful for the one player who has to contend against four. Considering that game delay is the only way any non-S tier killer to consistently win it has really unhealthy knock-on effects for the entire game.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301673#Comment_3301673
Yes you can.
Don't play a multiplayer game if you:
- Don't have the time to stay all match or
- Don't have the mental maturity to tough it out when you're losing.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301678#Comment_3301678
But a punishment already exists. I'm just changing it so toddlers can't use the hook as a way to DC without the DC penalty.
None of the stuff you said is a refutation of my point that you can't force people to stay in the game. It's just bland attitude affirmation. Your idea doesn't do anything to the person actually on the hook being problematic. It just punishes unhookers. The person trying to leave doesn't care whether or not they're harder to unhook; They probably welcome it.
It's ok to have a bad idea and it's a brave thing to express yourself on a public forum. But a bad idea is still a bad idea
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I think it's already an underrated perk. It definitely doesn't need to counter an entire suite of killer perks. Looks like you want it to be hard meta.
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You can't force people to stay in the game. Folks that give up on hook aren't suddenly going to not because their actions affect someone else.
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In some ways it's better than before. No thank you.
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Feels like a waste of dev bandwidth to make something a dozen people would play.
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@Ivalyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301584#Comment_3301584
Bottles did not help, mentioned that already in my original post.
I literally saw you miss a hook because you didn't use them.