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I agree. I can't even be bothered to spend BP half the time now.
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@luvcraft said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313802#Comment_3313802
Take yourself out of the mindset of a "good" player for a moment, and put yourself in the mindset of a "noob" player: you have a tome challenge to blind the killer, but you don't have the hang of flashlights yet, so you keep getting the timing wrong again and again, but you're slowly getting better. You think you can pull it off next match, but you're out of flashlights, and there are no flashlights in your current bloodweb. Or the next one. Remember, you don't control how often flashlights show up in the bloodweb; the RNG does, and right now it's rolling against you. How does that feel?
Like I wanna do any number of other challenges till I pull a flashie out of the bloodweb. It's not like blood points are in short supply nowadays.
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As long as it doesn't get you up on it's own that sounds fine. Consistent.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314033#Comment_3314033
That's exactly what TC is asking for, better items.
They aren't capable of getting those better items at the lower levels they're forced to go through, therefore its higher rarity items they want.
If your best add ons are brown, then you have nothing to complain about.
.........As I just said better items are not necessarily items of a higher rarity. Making it often detrimental to prestige and be forced into bloodwebs with higher rarity items. It feels like you didn't even read my post.
I'm not sure who "TC" is. Typo of OP? In any case they made their intent clear: keep the current system and make the prestige optional. Not once did they mention "better items", whatever that means.
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What perks even cause blindness? Third seal? Gone in the first thirty seconds of the match and requires you to hit every survivor to get use out of it. Fearmonger? Lasts five seconds when you get off the gen. Pointless for countering Windows which is the primary use of blindness.
This reads like the unhinged comments on DBD Twitter.
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@Seraphor said:
A better solution would be to make lower level bloodwebs more likely to hold higher rarity items after a certain number of prestiges. Say after prestiges 3, 6 and 9, you get increasingly more valuable bloodwebs.
Higher rarity items are not necessarily better items. I'd rather have mural sketches than iri pins on legion for example.
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You saw a video, so it's a problem? Not even first hand experience on the receiving end?
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The inevitable appeal to solo queue because they were inconvenienced by a perk one time. A true DBD forum classic.
Also just drop your item, lol
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313164#Comment_3313164
Again, it doesn't even do that, just hit the survivor twice. One in the borrowed time effect and then kill. In the DS meta that was way more risky, you could have to hit twice, then get hit by a long stun that restarts the chase or maybe even loose the chase.
People wonder why tunneling is more common, its simple. No killer is scared of DS. Agains half the killers in the game, you bought 8 seconds or less
Then it's the responsibility of the unhooker to take aggro. Unless they're face camping you can make distance to a loop with the speed boost. It also precludes waiting out borrowed time which is very nice
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@boflex22 said:
call of brine
dead mans switch
dead lock
eruptions
fear monger
no ed
penitmento
mad gritt
these are just examples of killer perks that need to be looks at from playing against killers that made the game almost impossible to play we had 6 years since this game has been release and there is a tone of information out there. as you can see survivors will still dc because they know the game will be unfair
Only one of these perks is problematic. All of the others do very little or have clear counterplay or require input from the killer.
It's mad grit! That's the perk that is ruining the game! There i spoiled it for you.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313161#Comment_3313161
I cannot figure in what dimension simple icons are total and complete information, but I'd sure like to live there. =)
The current one you and I inhabit. You know what everyone is doing at all times with a little bit of inference. They vastly simplify decision making and make everything you want to do as a survivor much safer.
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None of that stuff is holding the game hostage.
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"Stop tunneling"? Nah. It deters it and makes it inconvenient for the killer to do so. You can't stop tunneling without overhauling the entire game. It's necessary sometimes.
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@HugTheHag said:
Hum... Chill ?
The devs are literally testing a way for survivors to have a little more information right now.
It's a slow progress, but they're balancing for both sides.
By a little information do you mean total and complete information at all times for no cost to the survivors?
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Allcaps frothing outrage posts are not the way to be heard.
Also I have no idea what perks you're even talking about. The meta shakeup was like six months ago. Move on.
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No time limit at all seems rather insane. Survivors need counterplay to perks and running out the timer is skillful play that should be rewarded. When survs time their vaults to the second to avoid it I can't be anything but impressed.
Mostly I like dissolution because it makes survivors do goofy stuff to avoid proccing it. It also makes the whole "dead hard at pallet" thing much simpler to deal with.
I'd give it maybe an extra 5s duration or .2-4s shorter activation time
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@FFirebrandd said:
So... couple things.
First, post unhook endurance does have counters. You can wait it out and grabs completely bypass the effect.
Second, the patch that made that endurance effect be base kit also added 10 seconds to each generator, gave killers faster kicking gens and pallets, faster recovery from successful hits, shorter post hit speed boosts for Survivors, and a bit of instant regression when kicking gens.
I don't know which side came out on top with that patch, but it isn't nearly as cut and dried as you are portraying.
Same with this patch honestly. Yeah... Nurse is getting nerfed, but the Knight is getting some pretty nifty looking buffs and new Eyre of Crows looks a lot less mean to killers.
Is nurse getting nerfed? The compensation addon buffs outweigh the special attack consideration in my opinion.
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This is a very wise post. Excellent observations.
I think the ease and acceptance of survivor toxicity toward killers is that killers are the "bad guy". They're easy to hate, right? They're hurting and trying to kill everyone else. This coupled with the fact that survivors are the majority of the playerbase reinforces that killers are mostly set dressing to be played with. They're the bad guy, not someone else trying to have fun, so their enjoyment and feelings toward the game matter less.
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If you check the screen with their names you can tell who's around by whether it shows their ping still. ESC maybe?
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I just wish sacrificial wards were a little more common. There's a certain fun to be had in stomping survivors in a map of their choosing.
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@TrueGuardian32 said:
Even with all that, he is still extremely difficult to win with against good survivors. I mean I played him nonstop and though he was powerful for around 3 days then it was loss after loss cause people knew how to counter play. These buffs could be what is needed to give the Knight more of a chance.
Time you are in your power is time your not chasing. You have to rely on m1 hits meaning you have to catch up to survivors and even if you get the Guard to trigger on a survivor or they can still loop back to the banner and get rid of the Guard.
Btw I could have probably won if I tunneled or camped, but not every killer wants to do that.
What's the counter play? I'd love to hear it. Folks say W away as soon as he hits his power but he's back out of it so fast that it seems to matter very little. I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong.
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@babayagasaga said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310789#Comment_3310789
These two issues are completely unrelated. If survivors are waiting at the gate, there are still actions a killer can take. You can walk around, kick things, and most importantly, go to the gate to force them out. If a killer is determined to slug for the 4k, unless you had the foresight to bring an anti-slugging perk, there is literally nothing you can do except have four minutes of your time wasted. It seems like you're considering this issue from an emotional perspective instead of a logical one.
Ah, I should be forced to usher the survivors out the gate for their amusement. The double standard becomes even more apparent.
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@Tarhos_Kovács said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310496#Comment_3310496
She is not the only killer that can compete with great players and the fact that she is capable of doing it is not because of good power design. By this change she would actually need forward thinking and skills, right now why do you think she is a viable pick against tournament players? Because she denies game mechanics, good players need to practice a lot to be able to loop efficiently, and it's hard to catch a good looping player, but with Nurse they can't loop, all their time invested into mechanics barely matter because it's all about holding W and mindgames, I don't think that's healthy at all. Nurse is not a good tournament pick because she is mechanically demanding, rather because you don't need as much effort because it ditches game basics.
My shameful secret is that I am one of the people that instantly disconnects as soon as I hear that awful screech. I get it. I hate nurse as well.
However many people enjoy playing as nurse and they matter also. Their killer does not deserve to be gutted because you and I don't like her. This change is too much. She's getting problematic add-ons changed and special attacks. Let's see where that puts her before trying to tear out core components of her kit, eh?
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
Then remove NOED.
Uhhh. Okay? I see dead hard on 3/4 survivors every game. Just like before the shakeup patch. I haven't seen noed in over a month.
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They will never do this as they have no way to moderate voice chat.
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So you think the survivor should be able to know where the killer is whenever they want?
No thank you. Not controlling when this extremely powerful effect happens is the mitigating factor of it.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360067/a-potential-healthy-nerf-to-nurse
have you thought of all the indoor maps or maps with large structures? Now imagine a Nurse on Léry's (or RPD, The Game, Midwich, Springwood, Haddonfield, Coldwind Farm etc) with you proposed change. This Nurse moves at 96% with barely any option to use her power. Basically everywhere a Myers or GF can't stalk a Nurse could not blink.
No thank you.
And no, I am not a Nurse main.
Yeah I hate nurse as much as the next person but this is just excessive. I think it's healthy to have a killer that can compete with the best survivors and blink special attacks might make her less overwhelming for everyone else.
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Prestige grinders or just..... People that buy buy stuff in the bloodweb. Which is everyone. What an odd distinction to make.
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@lemonsway said:
DC penalties are dumb because they're a solution to a problem that can be avoided by having a better game and better players. Had BHVR a clue about their game they'd have a game where people would enjoy playing it instead of being frsutrated and scared of getting camped and tunneled and abandonned after going down...
Ah, all they have to do is make a perfect game. Why has no one brought this up before? It's genuis.
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@Emeal said:
Everyone is talking about punishing tunneling, but nobody is talking about how Killers can barely do anything else. Just had a game with all gens done in 4 downs, like how am I supposed to do anything?
From a purely numerical standpoint, most of the players of the game are survivor players. Many of this larger number play exclusively survivor. This leads to easier traction for ideas that are seen as survivor-friendly and a disproportionate number of ideas that are punitive toward killers.
In short I wouldn't sweat it.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309828#Comment_3309828
I also think you're underestimating how much time is typically spent not doing objectives. Most of the time, there will be no action icon displayed at all. You simply cannot know if that person is making their way to a hook, or a downed survivor, or hiding from the killer, or looking for a totem, or crouching in a corner, or sneaking into the basement. You cannot make any concrete judgements about what another player is doing at any given time. Even with a Gen icon is up, you don't know what Gen, when a totem icon is up, which totem and is it a cleanse or a blessing? Chest icon, well you know the survivor is wasting time.
The only really useful addition is the chase identification, which we already had on 1/4 survivors, and is typically apparent the moment a survivor gets injured anyway.
Not to mention, all of this information is entirely superfluous, if you run Kindred, which most solo survivors already do, and will still do, because Kindred is still more precise than this, and gives you information on the killer.
Most of the time the action icon won't be lit up. Are you serious? Do you literally think survivors just like.... Sit around not doing anything at all? Only the newest of the new players do that. This position is divorced from reality. People don't play games to sit in a corner AFK.
You can know what everyone else is doing through inference. You're 25% of your team. What are you doing? That influences what everyone else is doing. Surely you have eyes on at least one other member of your team. You're likely on a gen with them; prove thyself is a very popular perk. You don't need to know what gen they're on, only that the game is progressing. Totem icon? They're blessing. Nobody is breaking to totems unless it's for a challenge. Is someone down and the gen icon becomes empty? They're going to get them up. Common sense stuff. Come on.
Kindred only works when someone is on a hook. This gives that same information, all the time, in addition to when they are on hook. Without a perk slot. I'm unable to take you by the hand and explain to you how this is a gigantic buff for survivors. You're an intelligent person. I'm certain you'll realize information perks are entirely redundant after the patch.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309795#Comment_3309795
I am being honest.
As someone who runs Kindred every single solo survivor game, this is not replacing Kindred for me.
For one, it doesn't tell me who is closest to the hook. Even if I can see the other survivors are all doing gens, how do I know if I'm the one closest to the hook and should be the one to leave my gen and go for the rescue? I'm still as clueless as I was without the icons. I'll probably wait 20 seconds and if no one has gone for the rescue, then I'll ditch my gen anyway.
How do I know that the Claudette who's Generator icon just vanished is making her way to the hook? Or if she's crouching in a corner instead?
You know what happens when I run Kindred? I'm on my first hook, 4 gens are done, and I can see the three other survivors on separate gens, and the killer isn't even camping me. I die on my first hook, despite the fact that I know those three survivors can see the killer isn't camping, and can see each other on separate gens, pointlessly holding M1 in some kind of deranged race to finish theirs first, while I die.
That happens with Kindred already, it will still happen with action icons.
Yes, I get it. Sometimes survivors don't do the stuff you want them to. I've read a hundred permutations of the same story. It's the same stuff every online game falls prey to. It's also just confirmation bias. You remember the times your teammates are not useful and you gloss over the times that they are very useful in your memory. There's a story there that you want to tell yourself because you want to commiserate with others about how useless solo is. It's just how our brains work.
You don't have to be the one closest to the hook. All you have to do is see that a survivor stops repairing a gen and is not in chase. They are very likely going for the save. Then if they get in chase then you know you have to go for the save. The distance to the hook is mostly irrelevant. The save has to be done. It's the same decision making that you would make with kindred except you don't need it anymore.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309436#Comment_3309436
I don't think it'll have a significant effect on kill rates at all, it's basically a QoL adjustment that makes Kindred slightly less necessary. Everything it shows can already be seen via Kindred, and let's face it, that information is only necessary while someone is on the hook. It doesn't replace Kindred though, it's still not precise enough. Therefore, little effect on actual game outcomes. Nice QoL though.
Like kindred all the time, mapwide, for every action a survivor can perform or be subject to. Without taking up a perk slot.
Come on. It's a huge buff. At least be honest about it.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309395#Comment_3309395
To be fair, you haven't given any reason as to why you think that would be the case. There's a huge gap between 'Survivors can see what each other are doing' and 'The Killer is going to camp more because of that' - especially given half of all players are already playing in some sort of group. It's become a bit of a cliche to link any change to an increase in camping/tunneling/gen rushing no matter how unrelated it may be. Unless you make a strong case for it, there's not much to discuss there.
It wouldn't need nearly as much explanation if this were something directly affected unhooking (e.g. a hypothetical change that doesn't notify the Killer of an unhook) since there's a very clear connection between that change and Killers wanting to stay near the hook. But since it's not, it either needs some explaining or it can come across as grasping at straws for a reason to camp.
I get your whole style is to post a sick GOTCHA and vanish into the ether, but it's obvious that infallible mapwide information at all times frees up survivors from any uncertainty as to whether they need to be on gens. This increases efficiency and puts pressure on killers. What do killers do when three gens pop in chase? They hard camp and tunnel because facing three survivors is much more manageable than four. It also obsoletes most aura reading perks if you have the tiniest bit of game knowledge. You don't need to see auras if your can infer what the killer and everyone is doing by action icons
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309421#Comment_3309421
The thing is, saying that it leads to more tunneling is such a stupid take. And it happens all the time when there is some change. At this point, it sounds more like a threat and less like a serious prediction.
Peanits said it pretty well, there is a difference between Survivors getting Icons and Survivors will actually perform in a way that Tunneling and Camping become more necessary.
Example, happening yesterday: 4 Survivors alive, Kate, Steve (both Solo), my SWF-Mate and myself. Kate is on one Hook, Steve is on a second Hook, my SWF-Mate and myself have not been hooked once.
I get hooked and see that Kate is crouching at the corner of the Map. My SWF-Mate gets hooked as well, while Steve and Kate heal. I reach second stage. Steve gets chased, hooked, died. I rescue my SWF-Mate who also reached second stage. Now it is 3v1 with 3 Gens to go, the game is probably over at this point. We managed to do one Gen each (my SWF-Mate and myself), then we both are dead. Kate gets found in a locker and DCs once she got found. She did NOTHING from the moment of her first Hook, except for being at the edge of the Map and going from Locker to Locker.
So, what would the Icons change here? Kate would still dont do anything, even if she sees that my SWF-Mate or I are working on a Gen or being in Chase.
Steve and Kate would still not go for an Unhook so that my Mate or I dont reach second stage. And they had all information available - they knew where all Survivors were (two hooked, last Survivor right next to them).
And this is the problem with those Icons. Yes, they might help. But if the Survivors are not efficient, they wont be more efficient with Icons.
And, furthermore, since tunneling and camping is mentioned - Killer is the easiest it has ever been. And STILL Killers feel the need to tunnel and camp, because the game is even easier when it is an early 3v1. So even if you buff Killers, they will still tunnel and camp. There is not really anything that can be done about it, without making really impactful changes, which can also have a pretty negative impact for the Killer. (or, to be more clear: impact, which makes playing Killer way too hard)
You have absolutely no way of knowing that Kate wouldn't have been constructive with more information at hand. Most survivors will be more efficient with constant infallible information at their fingertips. Outliers prove very little.
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You can't handicap people for wanting to have fun with their friends. The two things are not comparable.
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I just wish it had a longer range. Maybe 40m. I like pairing it with prove thyself for co-op action challenges.
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@CheesyBabyBoi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308420#Comment_3308420
you're being weird and difficult. stop
I'm not sure what prompted a bizzare dead hard tirade(that I 100% agree with) but insulting me doesn't really illuminate anything.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308417#Comment_3308417
If your opponent is using Dead Hard, or if you suspect they have Dead Hard, you can't lunge, you can't swing instantly when the surv is in range, and you can't use a power like Huntress Hatchets without giving the survivor a free speed boost and putting yourself in cooldown. Even at its weakest, Dead Hard denies multiple basic gameplay options to the Killer.
Yeah thank you for explaining that point I absolutely agree with. It still doesn't make it remotely equivalent to having your perks scrambled.
They're saying "hey there's one incredibly frustrating thing in the game, why not add this other incredibly frustrating thing?" It's nonsense.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308289#Comment_3308289
You mean like Dead Hard does?
Yeah, that one perk is absolutely equivalent to having your entire build shuffled around by something out of your control, somehow.
Like, what? How does someone even have that thought? Utterly confusing.
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@Emeal said:
This could easily be done better with an offering. an Iridescent one that scrambles all players perks who didnt use a ward.
"Hey, you don't get to do any of the stuff you wanted to because that person used an offering. Enjoy your game!" Can you imagine the rage quitting?
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I believe you also need a signed and witnessed statement from the hacker stating that they are very sorry and it was bad of them to do that in order for action to be taken. Only video evidence? Not good enough sorry
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I would like to try this. I've said many times that it's a very common misconception that the distance is was the strongest part of the perk. Content creators have memed that into people's brains.
I dream of a world where I don't have to wait behind survivors for a year and a half and let them get their obligatory "will they dead hard" spins in.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307597#Comment_3307597
I think that shifting meta changes everytime a new chapter is released would be a good pacing. After all, new killer, new survivors, new perks, so the game have to adapt to those even if you don't pretend to change the meta by itself.
And yes, it's obvious where he want to go with this well thoughts perk reworks. My favorite is "Corrective action": Up to 15% insta progression with the enough cooldown to finish a gen by yourself and go to the next. Pretty well balanced, without doubt 🤣
Dude's got fast track with a +45% repair speed. Insane.
Like you said it's better for the meta to change with chapter releases. It's more natural.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307602#Comment_3307602
But makes good survivors great. A well coordinated SWF with voicechat is a nightmare to play against, and if they are well coordinated and playing competitively they would be doing what he described there.
But the solution is not a no-SWF matchmaking list (even if I would thank it) because that would mean no killer in his right mind would go against a SWF for that same reason. The best solution for this is to add in-game voicechat to the game so every survivor, SoloQ or SWF now has that advantage and start balancing the game taking it in count.
I completely agree that it makes good survivors better, but my issue is with the op which makes just unhinged statements about how it's a magic pill for survivors to win every game. Like that post is crazy.
In game voice chat is also a non starter. Nobody wants screechers screaming in their ear because you didn't unhook them instantly or didn't do whatever exact thing they want you to do. It's also impossible for BHVR to moderate and they're very invested in draconian moderation. You've played this game. You know how incredibly rude and entitled the playerbase is. With no exaggeration it is the worst community I have ever seen.
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Weird because when I play with my group we hardly ever win.
Comms doesn't magically make survivors good.
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@jesterkind said:
Does blessing Haunted Grounds not trigger its effects? I thought it did.
If it doesn't, the simpler fix would just to be making it still activate the perk after it's blessed, not making a mechanic-wide change for its interaction with one perk.
It absolutely does. This post is predicated on incorrect information.
Blessings hexes is a good mechanic. Takes longer and counters penti to a degree. Good risk/reward.
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No. When you make it so your have to relearn the game every few months you alienate casual players. It's exhausting. The old meta was that way for years. That's why an attempt was made at changing it.
All this stuff is just extreme power creep at well. Could some perks use tweaks? Definitely. Do they all need to be busted and obnoxious for both sides? Hell no.
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@jesterkind said:
Personally, what I'd want to see is them making him work exactly the same as Huntress and Trickster- shrink his Terror Radius back down, but make up the difference with a lullaby. I'm generally on board with the idea that they don't want him to be perfectly stealthy and able to line up shots from further away than survivors could hear him, but I do think him having a full 32 meter TR is a bit much.
The lullaby radius should definitely be a quieter one like Trickster's, of course. Something with rattling, maybe, give it a Western feel.
Standardizing killers with is a very uninteresting way to go about things. Variety is vital to keeping the game feel fresh and his slinger's abnormal terror radius was part of his identity. Having a killer that actually makes use of Monitor was really novel.
It's not like he was overpowered with 24. He was still an alright killer with a super high skill cap. It's not like there aren't perks to counter it anyway(fogwise, spine chill, dark sense if it weren't terrible).
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Gotta say, this post has some really great and insightful content