YOURFRIEND
YOURFRIEND
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That's a really cool insidious idea.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323408#Comment_3323408
No, it isn't. Any game mechanic that requires you to sit and do nothing is not a skill. This is bad as "Just wait it out" as an excuse for dealing with Dead Hard.
Precluding timing from the idea of skill is patently ridiculous. Come on. I can't think of any skill expression in any game that doesn't require you to wait after some fashion.
Note that I'm also not mentioning dead hard in this argument. That's a fundamentally flawed perk. Waiting can be important though. You wait for the beginning of the hook animation to avoid DMS and pain res, for example. It's part of what makes one skilled at the game.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323370#Comment_3323370
Here we see the continued mindset of "Waiting is a skill".
It can be a component of skill. Not the thing entire, but part of it.
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Not really enjoying the "windows needs nerf/change" meme going around.
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@Codyislucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323327#Comment_3323327
The silent cleansing and opening is not only useless, but poor thematically. Might as well just remove the whole thing and leave it how it was. Which is what they deemed underpowered and deserving of a buff to begin with.
It also wouldn't negate his entire power, Legion would burn through your tokens pretty fast.
You think having a calm spirit doesn't translate to messily destroying bones or hastily rummaging thru a chest? Really? It's very thematically appropriate. Goofy argument. Especially with your appeal to just leave it with less secondary effects if you can't get what you want. Petulant.
If it's anything like distortion it absolutely wouldn't. I only hit zero distortion tokens vs dedicated aura builds. Legion frenzy hitting would never hit that level. It would preclude the rare four man down entirely when calm spirit is in play. Wholly unnecessary.
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Ah. "Holding hostage". The new buzzword. With starstruck. Really interesting synergy.
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Literally just remove the action speed penalty and it's fine. An perk doesn't need to negate an entire mediocre killers power.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323085#Comment_3323085
A nerf? No. Not a chance.
Rework it so that people stop moaning about the incap? Sure. Which is why I suggested a 40 second gen block.
Also - I thought I remembered you, so out of curiosity, I took a peek at your other threads. Are you sure you're a killer main?
Yeah, I play mostly killer (70%?) and will always advocate for them. The majority of the player base are survivors so killers need folks willing to have voices that don't stoop to us vs. Them rhetoric.
I also just happen to think killers are in a good spot right now outside of lopsided maps. There are also many many small buffs you could also give underperforming killers such as: trapper starting with traps, neutering overheat, lower static blast cooldown, clown shared bottles etc etc.
Looking at my recent posts I'm defending tunneling and explaining counterplay to perk combos survivors don't like. Not seeing survivor bias there.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
Killer mains say eruption is fine same way survivor mains claimed old DH was fine,,non of them were fine ,,DH was rightfully nerfed and so is gettin eruption down the line,,,i give it until next ptb,,everyone is moaning about eruption as they should
I must be unplugged from the killer main hive mind because I absolutely feel eruption deserves a nerf.
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Buff every boon to be equal to Circle and let killers break them. That's what I'd like to see.
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Many of these are good ideas and many of them are the worst kind of power creep. Removing the cooldown entirely from I'm all ears, for example. It could be halved, but getting rid of it altogether is a bit much. Same with ruin, lullaby and third seal. Unpopular opinion, but I very much prefer the gen kick perks to old ruin. At least it requires input from the killer.
Also I posted that same BBQ idea shortly after the patch gutting it dropped and it's bumming me out to see people reacting positively to it here. 😔
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Reckon English isn't your first language?
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/361581/killer-perk-variety-these-days
So you just completely brain erased the era of Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer?
People seem to have very very short memories. Watching it in real time is very depressing.
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It's in the game because sometimes the killer has to, and the emergent strategies and perks around it are more compelling than simple non- interaction.
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Ghost feller likes it
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You've way over thought this. It's a bad perk with zero problematic interactions. I could actually see something like it being added to the game tho.
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321807#Comment_3321807
Bunny feng is just pink/green while maintaining you size advantage. This new outfit will make sure you won't hide in half tall tiles, which is a killer for me. I will 95% buy it, but replace headpiece for sure.
Well then you're not even a bunny. How silly.
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Managing sprint burst is the only skill cap the perk has. Why remove that?
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@jinx3d said:
the real issue with dbd is that both sides need to tryhard, because if one side brings everything to win, and the other doesnt, they will always lose
This is hardly unique to dead by daylight. The unique aspect of this game is the atrocious matchmaking that cannot pair chill with chill or try hard with try hard. I'm very sick of metagaming my killers to get lower MMR for playing chill matches.
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I have many solo games with excellent teammates that hard carry me. I have many many games with my friends where we lose. The initial dichotomy you present is just a sweeping generalization. That sort of broad statement is always going to be false.
Eruption is the only problematic perk right now. Pain res+DMS is countered entirely by letting go of the gen.
Fearmonger blocks auras for exactly five seconds. If five seconds of no auras is substantially harming your gameplay, you've got issues nobody but you can address.
Literally the only uses of blindness is to disable Windows. The only perk that does that consistently is third seal, a hex that is inevitably gone before you even get three stacks. It's not a regression perk. It's not an info perk. It's easily disabled. Why is it worth complaining about? Blandly bemoaning solo queue woes doesn't address any of that.
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@spirit72 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322390#Comment_3322390
Nobody is suggesting 'punishing' players who would prefer SWF.
You're the OP, yes? You're suggesting that exact idea. What do you think the queues would be like in this magical separate swf queue? What do you think the killers that queue up for that mode would be like? I could just tell you, but experience has taught me that it's better to have people come to ideas on their own.
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Say it with me, folks: you can't punish people for playing with their friends.
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I would really like.... Ten build slots. Sometimes I'm brimming with ideas and I have to take screenshots of the dumb stuff I come up with to remember them. Surely it can't be that taxing from a database perspective?
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/361571/killer-camping
There are too many killers holding the game hostage by camping hookCamping is not holding the game hostage.
this could be solved if hook progression would pause after the killer has been in close proximity for too longSurvivors would force the Killer into a loop and force the timer to pause or for the Killer to leave & allow unsafe unhooks.
Source: They tried this. Survivors abused it.
I will say it again: Camping is not holding the game hostage. The hooked Survivor can still die. Other Survivors can still do gens. NOTHING about camping is holding the game hostage.
I swear; 'Holding the game hostage' has become some sort of buzzword warcry for Survivors. Anything they don't like becomes either 'Unfun', or 'Holds the game hostage', so they can insist on horrible, easily abused changes.
They finally got it into their heads that whatever their opinion of camping and tunneling is, it's not reportable. So now "holding the game hostage"(which is reportable) is the new fallback complaint when they want something changed.
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Are the mid chapter patch notes out?
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It's bunny Feng 2.0. You don't run it for stealth. You run it when you want the killer to know you're obnoxious.
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I have only seen this once with a Freddy when I first started playing the game years ago.
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So on the game, macmillan or eyrie of crows I'm mandated to stomp the boon before I can chase in huge swathes of the map? I don't have time for that. No thank you.
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It's just a tech like window teching or whatever other janky stuff survivors do. Hiding inside killers hitbox after a hit.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321324#Comment_3321324
Well, hang on- you'd get procs on perks like Jolt before the generators are repaired with a tool like a toolbox, for a start, and depending on how much of a shield you actually get perks like Jolt might even eat through it straight away. To say nothing of this not being a basekit mechanic, it's being proposed as a toolbox rework, which means survivors have to choose to bring toolboxes which they already don't all the time.
You're assuming a lot about how something like this would be implemented. Remember that this is a nerf to toolboxes, because the pitch is that they carry no extra speed, they just provide this shield against regression-- you can't regress a generator that's finished, and so the speed is gonna be a lot stronger than the shield.
There are questions of how best to balance a mechanic like this, which might include select buffs to specific regression perks, but even on its face here it doesn't completely obsolete regression. Even if it did, there are tools for slowing down the game that aren't regression, and if survivors do generators a lot slower (which they would if this change also looks at certain perks), they'll be a lot more impactful.
You're right in that the idea is not fully fleshed out and I'm making assumptions. That's fair. Arguing against a thing that may or may not exist and assuming the worst is bad form.
In a subsequent post OP says hitting greats can add fortification as well. Obviously problematic. And what threshold is fair? If it knocks my jolt to 4% then that's not even worth the perk slot. It's a mechanic that negates an entire suite of killer perks. Something integral to the entire role. Running a perk vital to winning the game and just not having it do anything is a hostile user experience. If I down someone, bring them to a scourge hook and am rewarded with a solid 0% regression because a survivor brought a toolbox and held m1, that's gonna feel awful. I'd rather have fast gens that my perks can interact with than invincible gens.
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Games are lousy with leavers without it. It just doesn't work.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320572#Comment_3320572
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320634#Comment_3320634
Blood Echo and Fearmonger aren't just nerfs or deletion of exhaustion perk with extra steps. This is similar. It doesn't completely counter regression perks either.
This is such a weird analogy with so many holes that I dunno where to even begin. You're pretending like fearmonger and blood echo delete exhaustion perks? They don't. They're contingent on people staying injured which frankly does not happen since circle of healing was introduced. I'm the only person I've ever seen run this combo because it's not a game winning move duo. It's a "I am very fed up of dead hard" combo. And sometimes I am very very tired of dead hard.
You're proposing a mechanic that obsoletes regression entirely. Look at surge: 8% loss contingent on a survivor going down in 32m of a generator. A tall ask in most maps. An even taller one when you're against survivors that know how to hop in lockers or book it to completed gens before going down. And you're proposing that that perk, with these requirements..... Just do nothing if you proc it? Why the Christ would anyone ever run it? Survivors don't need toolboxes to do gens efficiently. All they really need to do is split up on different gens and they'll pop regardless of what you do unless you're playing an S tier killer with the ability to pressure the entire map. Regression perks mitigate that to a degree. And you're proposing to just take that off the table? It's a hugely lopsided proposition. Progression is easier and faster than regression and if you take regression out of the picture you leave killers with no tools to deal with it.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320572#Comment_3320572
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320634#Comment_3320634
Blood Echo and Fearmonger aren't just nerfs or deletion of exhaustion perk with extra steps. This is similar. It doesn't completely counter regression perks either.
edit: nevermind I figured it out
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God no. I hate this trend where you get stuff for a game by..... Not playing the game? By watching some vapid e-personality play a game? It's so so stupid and obvious astroturfing interest in a product.
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I like near miss. Challenge perks are a sort of unexplored space that I think could be a lot of fun.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320953#Comment_3320953
When I thought he was the worst Killer but decided to main him anyway and then found that he's actually good
I picked him up this weekend thinking that he was underrated but no...... truly awful killer. Like really really bad. I'll stick with clown and legion.
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This isn't about MMR. This post is you complaining about not being able to run non-baby killers. Honestly disappointed, I was looking forward to talking about how annoying it is to have to play the metagame of managing your MMR.
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There's always gonna be a meta and you're always gonna be sick and complain about whatever it is. That's just video games. I see way more variety on the survivor side than i ever did before.
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320561#Comment_3320561
That’s on BHVR for not having a much more reliable system to detect cheaters/griefers. Given that this game has been around for 6 years, the company definitely isn’t some small indie company who has no idea what they’re doing.
Suiciding deliberately should still be penalized, if said player gave up just because the game wasn’t in their favor, then the player shouldn’t even be playing in the first place. Once players understand that suiciding/griefing offers no form of actual penalty, they will continue to do so as long as the game is not in their favor.
Wow you're absolutely right. They should develop the most sophisticated AI in the world to rate whether people are sandbagging, trying to die on hook or legitimately trying to Kobe. It'd track variables like how many gens have been done, how many hook states have been exchanged, what killer is in play, whether the bad actor is trying to get out of the match or merely taking protection hits, whether they're intentionally missing skill checks or simply bad. All you have to do is crunch all of this incredibly complex criteria into an AI with nearly human level cognitive capacity to scrutinize everyone's actions at all times and determine the proper punishment. And if it makes mistakes and bans you from playing a game you paid for? Whoopsie! Seems within reach for a company that can't even push out content without game breaking bugs, right?
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Which one? The time they stuck in a charm obviously cut from the rift? Or the time they had that plague skin that was already in the rift?
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@durag_demon1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320845#Comment_3320845
Knight,artist, mainly.. but clown,huntress,trapper,deathslinger,nimesis...can do anti loops
I see you have never played any of these killers. Saying you can't use map resources against a trapper clown or nemesis is insane. Hell, deathslinger and knight can be shut down by a good pallet.
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@Mandy said:
I'm not expecting things to change hugely tbh, I think QoL will be improved for our solo queue players, I don't think it will impact the kill rates too much however. We will of course be monitoring and seeing how much it impacts and whether changes would need to be made, on either side - as we always do.
It's pretty disingenuous that you can say letting every survivor know what the killer and other survivors are doing at all times so that they know when to safely be on gens is a "quality of life change". It's an insane buff. Be honest about it.
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@durag_demon1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320816#Comment_3320816
Lmao.. op?
1.We have like 6 killers who literally stop survivors from Using the only resources we have on the map,but nobody calls them op
2.thats the point of the perks and items is to waste as much of the killers time as possible,so gens can get done... what game are you playing?
3.its also to help create new playstyles and to push survivors to use the resources around the Map without worrying about low balling thier teammates
4.i think killers don't want to earn thier kills they just want it handed to them.
Mmmmmm. Us. Vs them rhetoric. Delicious.
What are the killers that stop map resources from being used?
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Just say you want to delete regression perks. Same thing, less effort.
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I'm not interested in alternative game modes. They'd see play for a month for novelty sake and die off.
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I've never seen lobbing the traps before. That's very clever. It'd be fun if they had actual collision and stuff so you could say bank one off a window. That's a big ask tho.
Not sure about the invisibility thing, especially if iri coil is base.
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Well they have to kick the gen(likely progressed a bit) then down a survivor before it's done. This obviously does not always happen.
Like it's a problematic perk. Overpowered even. But your framing is awfully disingenuous.
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@ViperTheCharon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319702#Comment_3319702
So, when I always make discussion like this big, it doesn't save the assets very fast and I'm sometimes impatient, so there could be still some things that I didn't wanted to be in the post, so im gonna remove those unintended this ASAP. (Already done that.)
Old WoO was like the training wheels for the new players, the current WoO is not that bad as you say, but it can be taken to the advantage by the experienced player by knowing where to go next and potentially make disguisting chain loops that M1 killer probably has zero counter for it. (It also shows how the maps are badly designed, which is laughable.)
Changing Dead Hard is always tricky, since when it gets changed, on the beginning people will say "This is garbage" or "Dead Hard is dead", but later on it would be still a very good perk or just a crutch perk. (The concept for the rework was when Clairvoyance was able to push any player while it was active.)
25% wouldn't make much difference to the current 10%. To look at the math, normal heal takes 16 secons total, with 10% increased speed, it would cut off only 1.6 seconds, making it 14.4 seconds total, on the 25% increased speed, it takes 4 seconds, making it 12 seconds, but point it out that it only works while healing other survivors.
Shattered Hope basekit would not be a great choice, since COH is on the top and other boons are just mediocre, making shattered hope basekit would make only COH viable and put other boons to the trash.
I mentioned in Fast Track's description that it doesn't trigger when facing a difficult skill check and BNP skill checks are considered as difficult skill checks, so there would not be any synergy with it. (Also BNP already doesn't work with fast track, which only applies BNP bonus and wastes Fast Track Tokens, granting no additional effect.)
I like current windows because it actually gives Blindness some use. Outside of slugging builds it does almost nothing and being able to disable a meta perk is very nice. I like running niche/off meta stuff and that makes it a little more rewarding. My opinion is definitely not the majority though.
Fast track is still 45% of a gen instantly, 3x times a game. You don't have to use it at the same time as BNP to get value out of that. You can use the BNP at the beginning to bang out a fast gen then toward the end to bang out a fast gen. You still have the actual toolbox to increase speeds further.
I'd rather have shattered hope basekit and make every boon as good as CoH than basically delete boons entirely. It's a cool mechanic with too little counterplay.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319702#Comment_3319702
Empathatic connection is trash though, why is 25% too much? It only applies to other teammates as well and Botany is still way better, that change is fine as it makes a trash perk actually worth considering in a healing build
A lot of your other points I agree, but basekit shattered hope is nerfing the other 3 when they are already not great, just no
I never said 25% was too much. In fact I explicitly said that it doesn't make the perk busted. My point is that more than doubling any perk value is power creep and you need to be careful around it. I'd put it at 15% and see what the performance is after that instead of increasing it that much.