WesCravenFan
WesCravenFan
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649479#Comment_2649479
If the perk is activated during the hit registration, it's still working as intended, whether you like the way it is or not.
If that were true, then the pallet should be destroyed. But it wasn't.
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@Pepsidot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649485#Comment_2649485
If you play well and aren't flash saved, the survivor attempting the flash save has wasted all that time following you about when they could have been progressing through a gen. And you might even get them injured so when you then hook the survivor, you have a head start in the next chase. Flash saves have been hard to pull off against aware killers ever since the rightful buff to a killers pickup animation (and the also rightful nerf to instant flashes). Generally if you're flash saved now, you are at fault.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649486#Comment_2649486
There are a lot of different scenarios, yes. That scenario is a lot more difficult to control.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649489#Comment_2649489
Generally speaking, if they can get into a position to flashlight save you when you pick a survivor up, you messed up by not baiting it out. The pickup animation is very fast compared to how it used to be. Sure, the first flash save might catch you completely off guard. Maybe no survivors equipped a flash and found one in a chest you weren't aware of. Perhaps they were very sneaky and you didn't see them. But if you keep picking someone up without taking any precautions (as I explained earlier to WesCravenFan), you're at fault.
You are literally victim blaming in this post.
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@Zachcjjj said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649382#Comment_2649382
please be joking please please please im actually going to cry in fetal position and die if youre not
100% dead serious. Flashlights are the only Survivor item in the game that can regress Killer objective progression by negating a hook (outside of a firecracker or flash bang, which is effectively the same thing). And it only takes 3 seconds of holding M2 to do it, if that.
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@Pepsidot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649459#Comment_2649459
A survivor following you about means there's a max of 2 survivors on a gen. When you go to pick someone up, face a wall and if you can't, face a direction a survivor is unlikely to be. If you really think someone is there, fake the pickup. If there is a survivor trying to get the flash save, they'll run to try and get in position and at that point you hit them and repeat the steps until you can get a safe pickup.
You say "that's two survivors not on gens" as if that is in my favor.
If one survivor is on my shoulder, and one is flashlight creeping, and two are gens... then the team is still at 50% objective capacity.
If the creeper then blinds me, they both take off and the team is back to 100% objective capacity and I just lost 8% progress and I am now behind all the progression their team made while the other two were on gens.
How could you POSSIBLY believe that is in my favor? Like, AT ALL?
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648657#Comment_2648657
Its not a "buff". It's just doing its job finally like it should have done in the first place. That's like saying that Hex: Ruin doesn't work all the time but they finally fixed it to work when someone lets go and that is a buff XD Dead Hards' purpose is to time a hit so you can avoid it. Saying that it works correctly now is a buff is so delusional lmao.
Timing a hit to avoid it is not the same thing as power negation. See the post above yours that explains this in detail.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649410#Comment_2649410
In this exact situation, how many times does a survivor DC'ing ? 1 time out of 50 trials ? You won't get a 30 to 40% DC rate in the opponent team just by playing the game without camping and tunneling.
All of you are clearly killer mains and once again you just prove that ppl maining one side are just unaware of the global state of the game. You are all just selfish players thinking only about your little small side and personal experience without thinking how it goes for the other side.
I play ten times more Survivor games than I do Killer games, easily. When I play Killer I might play 3-4 games total before I get disgusted. I can play Survivor for six hours straight.
So no. You are objectively wrong about your whole "You are all just killer mains" claim.
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@RainehDaze said:
"Survivors can punish killers for using deemed-by-survivors-unfair tactics by eating a small disconnect penalty now and then."
It's the start of the absurd rabbit hole that competitive games face if they let you ban playing with someone: really good players that use gameplay others don't like facing (snipers in shooters, for instance) suddenly can't play. Not because they're cheating, not because they're doing anything wrong. Because other people are sore losers.
It's ######### ridiculous to say "lose on my terms or don't get to play".
"Lose on my terms you you don't get to play" is perfectly summarized. Thank you.
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I don't know. I've been saying flashlights have been OP for months now and yet I am told they are the weakest item in the game despite the fact that a flashlight save robs a Killer of over 8% of his objective progress in three seconds.
I get told to "just face a wall" and still get blinded from the side.
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There is no such thing as a fair game because what Survivor Main Mentality players think makes a fair game is not the same thing that Killer Main Mentality players think makes a fair game.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649393#Comment_2649393
Not for everyone else they're playing with, though.
MMR where you can have your fun toying with someone and still get a loss to tank your MMR is not a good combo.
Couldn't you do that before, too? Make sure you die and never touch a gen, and stay in low ranks?
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649387#Comment_2649387
Or you get the people who are great at looping dropping down MMR to where they have no place being, just because they in particular aren't escaping.
Which is no fun for anybody.
Obviously it is fun for them. I guess. Whatever does it for you.
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Deathslinger wasn't nerfed.
Deathslinger was taken out back, shot in the skull, and his corpse was left to rot in the woods.
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I like MMR.
It forced a lot of players to realize the ugly truth about how they play the game.
- If you complain that all you have are nonstop bad Survivors, then you weren't that good or your MMR would have placed you higher.
- If you complain that all you get are tryhard sweatsquads, then as a Killer you got overly used to pubstomping.
- If you complain you see a ton of hackers, you know you are in high MMR.
People that liked the old system just enjoyed kicking around weaker players. That is all MMR has done - reduce the number of weaker players you face. And in the aftermath we just have a slew of "But what about my mad looping skillz there's more to skill than escaping reeeeee".
To which my response is "If your looping skills are that god tier, you should have zero problems breaking the killer's ankles and moonwalking out the exit gate every game. GG."
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Well, flashlights ARE OP.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648471#Comment_2648471
yea i mean some games i can do 4 gens and die and then the dude who was hiding the whole match escapes... still ends up getting more blood points etc. than me
I do not believe it is mathematically possible to hide in a corner all game and get more blood than someone that did 4 gens. That is, at best, 5K blood plus time spent in trial and that is assuming that Survivor escaped. 4 gens is a lot of Objective points.
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Sometimes people make posts that I disagree with, but I can at least find some merit in their argument.
I can find none here.
You literally want the game to kick anyone that doesn't play the way you don't approve of by virtue of voting them out of the player pool with DCs.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2648231#Comment_2648231
I have 4.500 hours in this game and no, you can’t hide from a killer
I'm shocked that in 4500 hours you've never hid from a killer.
I have 1000 hours, and I have had many, MANY games where the Killer only knew I existed because I had a Survivor portrait. He didn't even see me when I ran out the exit gate.
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@GeneralChaos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647262#Comment_2647262
A hide and seek design intention isn't reflected in the scoring mechanics, though. Hiding offers little reward; the scoring system pushes you toward getting into a chase, staying in a chase as long as you can and ideally, winning the chase by escaping. To get an iridescent Evader emblem, you need to accrue 880 points. Hiding, you can gain a maximum of 6 points a second, if you are hidden within 5m of the killer. The further away you are, the less you get.
But get into a chase longer than 15 seconds, and you can easily score 15-30 points per second. Make it last 30 seconds and you can score 36-72 per second. It goes up again at 45 seconds and 60 seconds. If you don't win the chase, you lose half of those points. So the scoring design here says survivors should run the killer for as long as possible, until the killer gives up and moves on to someone else. I know that's often not how it works out, because of Bloodlust and other assorted mechanics, but that's what the scoring system tells a survivor they should be doing.
It's a similar story with BP. There's no BP reward for hiding; the category is even called Boldness. Beyond the killer specific interactions that earn you Boldness BP (like cleansing demo's portals, disarming a trapper's trap, etc), it's basically down to chases and totems. Since there are only 5 totems in a match, if you want a decent amount of BP you have to get into chases, extend each chase as long as you can, and ideally stun the killer with some pallet drops.
All if your points are valid, but I want to point out two things:
1.) Chasing is not the same thing as looping.
2.) Chasing is not a victory condition. It's just one emblem.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647297#Comment_2647297
Blood warden and No way out require the killer to catch and hook survivors. That's effort on their part. Something they have to work for.
They don't have to do anything to get a speed boost and insta down ability from NOED.
Irrelevant. Lots of perks require no effort to work. That is not a reason to single out NOED.
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@XLbuff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647293#Comment_2647293
Sure, because holding W, predrop pallets and heal with boon totems is far more fun for both sides.
It is for me. I'm DONE having every single game just turn into "run around the pallet a hundred times".
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@[Deleted User] said:
I wish eruption instantly killed survivor who are working on gens
Calm down, Satan.
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@BaschFonRonsenburg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647293#Comment_2647293
As the W meta increases in frequency. Killers with hold W potential will go up in tier lists etc.
I consider this a good thing.
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NOED doesn't reward bad play, because the end game is a legitimate part of the game as well and there are many perks that are designed to work around the end game. NOED doesn't reward bad play any more than Blood Warden or No Way Out does.
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I'm sorry the newest Killers are too hard to run forever by hitting them in the face with every conceivable pallet on the map.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647181#Comment_2647181
Then why does the majority of the community want to be chased. Surely if the stealth was well designed then more people would enjoy it?
THAT is a fair criticism. You are surely allowed to find fun wherever you want. My point is that it is a false argument when a lot of people say things like "BHVR keeps screwing over looping" when looping isn't part of their design.
BHVR made Hide & Go Seek, NOT a game of Tag. Some people prefer Tag, but when BHVR patch something or make a new Chapter and it doesn't further Tag, that is not a design error.
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I give hatch a LOT.
Basically, if you didn't teabag me, bring a flashlight, or use Dead Hard... you are getting hatch from me. Or even just the door.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647138#Comment_2647138
And we are not here so you could feel powerful in a video game
You actually are. By math.
4 versus 1. A Killer is by raw math required to be four times more powerful than you.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647138#Comment_2647138
Yes but as an asymmetrical game it should be fun for both sides especially when they are interacting. The only time killers and survivors interact is during a chase
This is another example of a wrongly adjusted mentality. Dead By Daylight is a game of hide seek (developers own words, by their own recent video).
You are not SUPPOSED to be chased. Chasing is supposed to be the last resort. And is supposed to end in downs (hence the bloodlust mechanic intention).
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I'm still waiting for my 80s Freddy.
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@PinkCaffiene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647129#Comment_2647129
Okay I have to say this: Nah sometimes they wear yellow coats.
You bet i'm laughing way too hard at myself for this. Hope you have a wonderful day friend!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2647127#Comment_2647127
Honestly those "OMG Thank you" Messages make it worth it imo, I'm happy if everyone else is I just want to create a fun environment. Nice to see other friendly killers out here <3 keep doing the good work my friend <3 love you and best wishes!
You too!
I would say "Good luck in the Fog", but we haven't had fog since 2018. ;)
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646959#Comment_2646959
Yes, because as surv you have so much fun holding shift+w I can’t imagine why survs want to loop killers
Killer design is not, and CANNOT revolve around what Survivors find fun. Killers do not exist for your enjoyment. They are not hired clowns for your kid's birthday party, even if a lot of Survivors treat them as such.
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@NAERUUU said:
First : don’t speak about dead hard and meta perk if you use chili BBQ and lethal pursuer.
and dude … toxic player are everywhere … I know this is painful but … block him and go next
Please tell me you didn't seriously just compare a Perk that outright ignores a hit with one that lets you see Survivors MORE than 42 meters away for 4 seconds.
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@KerJuice said:
The game is not Survivor sided- it’s Survive with Friends sided. You killer mains need to join us Solo Que players more often & more consistently. It’ll open your eyes. A lot of the stuff that doesn’t work against SWF works well against solo Que. And the stuff that DOES help against SWF is completely BUSTED against SQ. And that’s what got Wraith’s cheap ass nerfed. Still isn’t enough in my opinion, but I know SWF runs circles around him in his current state so I’ll compromise & take what I can get.
SWF needs to be removed from public matches. The game launched without it, and personally I believe it was by design- not a time constraint to get the game out.
I am a former Killer Main turned Survivor Main and I will you right now I will take SoloQ forever over going back to the misery that is playing Killer. I don't need my eyes opened. I've been there.
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I am a friendly killer like 75% of the time now. I don't care if it makes the tryhards angry. I get a lot of "######### just play normally!" because "farming is boring" or "I wanna be chased!" people get tilted.
But... I was getting hate messages anyway when I 4K. So, I might as well play friendly and get the random "OMG thank you I've been trying to get that archive done for three hours!" messages thrown in to even things out.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646966#Comment_2646966
It is. Why do you think they make loops the way they do. Or during the most recent QnA during the MMR section they directly mention looping has no Impact on MMR
They are well aware and design the game around it
I think you are conflating looping with chase mechanics. Pallets and windows are part of game design. They are map resources for Survivors and some Killers have powers designed to work with those in some fashion, like Clown bottles. What I am saying is that the act of dropping out of a window to then run around a rock over and over and over and over again, losing slight distance with each circle while you milk every centimeter before throwing the pallet, is NOT something that is made a factor of game design. So when a player complains that is being taken away by the most newly made Killer, they fail to understand they were never entitled to that play style in the first place.
The emblem system rewards chase TIME, not the number of NASCAR laps you milked out of one pile of junk on Blood Lodge. This is precisely why people get so mad about the "Hold W meta" (which just a pretentious way of saying "running"). You can have your own opinion of what is boring or not, but many Survivor arguments are steeped in a faulty foundation that they themselves came up with. It's the same mentality that tries to say "Killer tactic X that kills me is not a valid strategy!". Well, yes, it is. And the game is designed around it. But many Survivor Mains view the game the way they think it SHOULD be rather than the way it IS, and that is where the disconnect lies.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646959#Comment_2646959
They still deny looping and are therefor “anti loop” just like DS is “anti tunnel”.
Whether or not looping is intended is irrelevant
It is relevant, because the Survivor complaints act like BHVR is somehow screwing them over on purpose for a mechanic they themselves didn't create. BHVR has actually acknowledged tunnelling as a mechanic. I've seen developers actually refer to DS as an anti-tunnel perk. I've never, EVER seen one say that running around the same rock fourteen times is a factor in ongoing game design.
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There are no "anti-loop" killers. There are killers with strong chase powers, that happen to be good against Survivors that attempt to loop. Anti-loop implies that running around the same tile over and over and over and over again was an intended game design that the developers built the game around.
They didn't.
That is why so many survivors get pissy when they can't loop a killer like say, Nemesis. They think they are entitled to a looping playstyle and therefore anything that threatens that is somehow bad design on BHVRs part.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2644926#Comment_2644926
On that front, where does the breakpoint lie, though? The current state of the game seems to lean towards a low skill threshold to achieve success, just between the size of the maps, the overarching gen time dictating how long everything else can take, and the number of low-mobility killers.
There just appears to be a near-suicidal altruistic attempt at 4-man escapes maintaining any semblance of sanity.
I don't have an answer to this.
Basically we have to choose whether we make the lives of SoloQ and low skill players absolutely miserable so that Killers have a shred of a chance against high MMR SWFs, or we make the game easy enough to give the low tier players a fair fight and in turn make high MMR SWFs absolutely unstoppable to the point of laughability.
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The main problem with balance is a huge, gigantic, stadium sized difference in Survivor skill.
At low skill levels Survivors are so bad they last about ten seconds in chase.
At high skill levels Survivors can easily last a minute or more.
A two minute chase, or a combination of two minute chases can easily get 3 generators done. This causes a huge amount of pressure on the killer that cannot be every place at once. You just can't stop the last two from popping if they are scattered enough. Whereas at the low skill level survivors are in a constant state of recovery as someone is on the hook 24/7 and the are running at 50% capacity to do gens as one is on the hook and the last is trying to save them.
Anytime you change something in the game either either cripple the low skill players even more and barely annoy the high end SWFs, or you you give the low skill players a minor edge and the SWFs an overwhelming advantage. It is impossible to balance right now.
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@ImBlissful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642583#Comment_2642583
We know how to beat it, and we can beat it. That's not what this is about. It's about a significant amount of players not wanting to go up against people who actively want to ruin fun. It's not about winning or losing according to the game. It's about the fact that campers have fun by ruining the entire experience for others and making it feel like a waste.
It can be considered a game problem is if BHVR are empathetic about the fact that it indeed is a "you problem" for MANY people. Though, like most game devs, they don't clarify on their take on specific things like this, and given the fact that changes aren't being made for it, they are either ignorant about it or they don't care.
Another reason I made this thread is based on the slimmer of hope that they actually do care about the number of people who also care about it. I'm not going to settle for how things are if I feel like there is a chance of being able to influence change. Is that not one reason for forums to exist in the first place?
Congratulations, this entire post perfectly describes Survivor Bully Squads!
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@BadLooperQ said:
The level of killers always was bad. The problem is that they think they are good resorting to camping and tunneling solos who don't have coordination.
Then, when they found a full meta/comms SWF they get traumatized.
It's rare to find a killer who gets 4K purely by patrolling gens and not hooks.
There are good reasons for why all of that is taking place.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2636318#Comment_2636318
But it's also one of the hardest perks to use, with the easiest counterplay, and pretty low output, while uniquely claiming both a perk slot -and- an inventory slot.
Being able to toss two flashbangs in a row is probably a pretty insignificant change overall.
I have zero doubt in my mind if this change was made we'd have Youtube videos out within a week montaging Killers getting carpet bombed like a Vietnam War movie.
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@Shaylala86 said:
I think that if the Killers camp then the Survivors should be able to get an extra generator already finished that's only fair killers should not be able to camp
You do get a generator done. You can get up to three, in fact.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2636305#Comment_2636305
Is that a big deal, though? It's not a good perk, by a country mile.
Yes, it is. You should not be able to double stock-pile a stunnable item.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2636307#Comment_2636307
I cant believe you're actually trying to have this conversation right now...
I can't believe I keep hearing people cry about being on the hook when it's one of the most fundamental aspects of the game. What do you expect the killer to do? Leave you on the ground to - oh wait. That's called slugging, and that makes Killers scumbags, too. I forgot.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2636300#Comment_2636300
Uh... yeah sure, I guess if we're only using made up rules and cant find a way to fix camping... sure, it's not holding a player hostage... just preventing them from playing the game until they are dead
They are not prevented from playing the game. Being hooked is a consequence of that survivor making three failed checks in a row.
If you are on a hook, you got spotted by the killer. That's fail #1. He then chased you, and nailed a hit on you. That is fail #2. You then got a sprint burst and a chance to run away, and you lost that chase, too. That is fail #3.
Survivors need to stop acting like being on the hook is some punishment they got for doing no wrong and realize it is a natural consequence of a game with chases. A huge amount of the Survivor player base says "Being in a chase is the only fun part of the game". Well, chases have consequences. The killer's objective is to hook you. Why do you think you are entitled to be unhooked?
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@[Deleted User] said:
The only one i think shouldn't be locker is flash bang everything else i feel makes sense.
Flashbang 100% needs the locker requirement because otherwise you could drop two in rapid succession by throwing it down, pressing E, and then dropping a second one since it is instant and has no animation or progress bar.
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I love the locker requirements. It adds a level of usefulness to lockers and gives Survivors something to interact with.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2634564#Comment_2634564
I didn't say it was holding a game hostage...
Game hostage. Player hostage. A minor semantic there but the game itself has a definitive definition of use of the word "hostage", and nothing on a timer is held hostage. As hooks are on a time, along with slugging and the EGC, nothing involving those three things is held hostage. Bodyblocking in the corner, THAT is holding a player hostage.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2634684#Comment_2634684
sorry, I was being incredulous rather than being accurate. I meant more "how can anyone enjoy facecamping? seriously?" sorry for the confusion.
I can't passively, because I get bored. But I will 100% spite camp if the Survivor used Dead Hard, a flashlight, or teabagged.