Waffleyumboy
Waffleyumboy
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- Waffleyumboy
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040646#Comment_1040646
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/643/WXD61JG5Z7E7.jpg
Google isnt the same for everyone
: /
Funny you didn't show you searched the wrong terms
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040588#Comment_1040588
They are. Being forced to slug because he MIGHT have DS is punishment. Killer is forced to change his tactics because "anti tunneling" perk is active even though he is not tunneling. And slugging is less desirable than hooking, because it does not increase entity progress.
If you really want to stick to your definition of tunneling then ok, lets call what I call tunneling "toxic tunneling".
DS should be a perk that discourages this "toxic tunneling", "tunneling" multiple people is not toxic or harmful in any way and should not be punished by DS
Then we have different ideas of what DS should do. I think it should disable all tunneling while you want it to be useless except in niche scenarios versus desperate killers. Good chat mate
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040509#Comment_1040509
If we would follow this trsin of thought, then very good killer can tunnel all 4 people...
This does not makes sense. What is important is not how quicky was the survivior rehooked, but how many events happened between rehooking
Rehooking someone after hooking 3 other people is completly different than chasing, downing and rehooking someone immediately after he got rescued.
If tunneling is something that killer is punished for then it must be something he is guilty of, when unhooked survivior walks into a trap, then its the surviviors fault, killer shouldnt be punished for that.
Killers aren't punished for the survivor running into a trap.
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@ReallyBigShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040510#Comment_1040510
Run unbreakable. Recover, so your teammate can get you up. If you were slugged off the hook and the killer went and chased someone else, you were not tunneled. You were slugged.
The chase will probably not last if you played well and used all the pallets in the area before you got hooked.
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@ReallyBigShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040503#Comment_1040503
How were you slugged if someone else was chased and hooked? How were you both chased at the same time?
I don't think you realize the holes you leave in most of your points.
Read op again
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040473#Comment_1040473
From technical standpoint you cant tunnel 2 people. Because tunneling means focusing on 1 player over the other 3, when you 2 people on hook then its 2vs2, so you are free to choose either side, obviously guarding the hooks is the easier option, and this is neither tunneling nor camping, you cant force the killer to do disadvantageous choice for no reason.
And getting caught in a trap immediately "disables" tunneling, because it was the survivior that initiated the situation.
Tunneling is rehooking the same survivor rapidly without them having time to recuperate. That's what happened in this scenario.
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@ReallyBigShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/124761/the-problem-with-this-suggestion
If someone else is hooked after you are unhooked, you are not being tunneled. You had plenty of time to get away. if you go out of your way to stay in the killers terror radius, it's your own fault.
You can't go far when slugged I'm pretty sure.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040207#Comment_1040207
You can't tunnel 2 people because of the definition of tunneling itself...
And the second guy got caught in a trap. Was I supposed to let him go or what
I'm just speaking from a technical standpoint.
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Apparently ranking up is just going to be a devotion that affects your matchmaking. They will probably say devotion rewards are enough.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040221#Comment_1040221
Get in close so the Killer wants to sidestep you since going for the DS person is just a waste of time, and if they can't, you back off when they try to go for you to just get it over with.
Yea I guess DH can be used in that scenario.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040191#Comment_1040191
Naturally you attempt to not actually get hit. Could be a juke, could be Dead Hard, could even be the unhooker's Borrowed Time if you have the opportunity. Each second the Killer spends preoccupied with someone who has a full minute of protection from being picked up is a second the Killer is not spending pressuring anything else.
Right but if you're not within hitting distance you can't hinder the killer with bodyblocking. If you're outside of range it's just baiting which isn't very effective. I get the BT complaint, but waiting until BL 1 guarantees it's gone.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040156#Comment_1040156
If this would inlude saves and healing as "things you cant do with DS" then It wouldnt be too bad, but there still would be issues.
For example once I hooked 2 people in basement, trapped it with 1 Bear trap and left, heard the warning and went back, I met the 1st unhooked at the exit, slugged and went in, 2nd guy gets saved, I hit the unhookER once and he runs away. And THEN unhooked no. 2 steps in the trap. I pick up unhooked 1 and get DSed. Well ok he just got unhooked. I pick up the guy no. 2 from the trap and get DSed 2nd time. Wow, multitasking tunneling so toxic. From 2 in the basement to 0 on hook.
So: only 1 DS can be active at the same time AND getting caught in a trap disables DS.
If we add these 2 conditions then I think your idea would be fine
You tunneled both of them. They deserve to use DS.
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The Game has too many safe pallets, and has not enough windows. Am I doing this right?
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040184#Comment_1040184
If they try to down the DS person to stop them from bodyblocking, they went after the DS person and wasted time.
To be able to bodyblock you need to be right within hitting range of the killer. No chase required for them.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040176#Comment_1040176
Not if you are trying to waste the Killer's time. They spent time going after someone they couldn't hook.
No they didn't go after you. We're talking about bodyblocking while DS is up.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040162#Comment_1040162
With a teammate heal, it depends on the context. With Unbreakable, I would say the Survivor absolutely comes out ahead.
Unbreakable is once per game. Using it after getting yourself dropped is a pretty inefficient use of it.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040139#Comment_1040139
If they are back on their feet without getting hooked from there (whether it be proccing DS or someone healing them or Unbreakable), then DS still succeeded in wasting the Killer's time.
If someone has to heal them it was an even trade: one effortless hit for a teammate having to come over and pick you up/unbreakable.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040128#Comment_1040128
Yes, thats why that survivior will do everything to piss the killer off, using and abusing the invicibility as I mentioned above.
They can't do any meaningful objectives, and running around in the killers face isn't all that beneficial for the team, especially since the killer can just slug you and be on their way.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040128#Comment_1040128
But they're not doing nothing. They're actively blocking the Killer.
They can't do that without going down and wasting their team's time.
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@NullEXE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040124#Comment_1040124
Or teabag their head with Ghostface.
Haha yes.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040118#Comment_1040118
In that case, why wouldn't the Survivor instead want to actually make the most of their DS by forcing a proc? Is the Killer just going to let the Survivor be in their face and roadblock for a full minute?
The survivor running around doing nothing for a minute is beneficial to the killer.
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I think wake up should stay an exit gate perk...there are no others like it.
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@NullEXE said:
Entitled Survivors have this weird thing, where they think it's your job to ensure they have fun.
But it's not.
So to punish the survivors that were being toxic to you, you should slug the next group and then let them bleed out on the ground.
Don't ruin your fun for them. But if sitting around for a couple minutes is something you find fun go for it.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040102#Comment_1040102
"Or the survivor can get back to doing gens like normal?"
Then there's no DS, is there?
Yes there is no DS because the survivor isn't being tunneled once they get back to the rat race.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040090#Comment_1040090
And if the Survivor wants to actually make use of the invincibility, they can't work on gens (or heal). Where does that leave the Survivor in question? Actively forcing it. Hence encouraging the abuse.
Or the survivor can get back to doing gens like normal? If the survivor tries to bait the killer into tunneling the killer can ignore them because they're useless to their team.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1040057#Comment_1040057
That means the Survivor is not allowed to do anything meaningful except for act as bait/a meat shield for a solid minute. All that would really do in my eyes is encourage the abuse.
What do you mean? It means the survivor either has invincibility or is doing meaningful objectives.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039939#Comment_1039939
I mean, what am I supposed to say? I'll still play solo Survivor (even though I am trash). I don't even use DS currently.
If the situation is such that we can't change a perk to stop abuse because of tunneling, then that sounds like a sign of a fundamental problem in not just game balance, but game design overall.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039955#Comment_1039955
Can't say I agree on the grounds that it ain't tunneling in my book if the Killer is going after the unhooker and giving the unhooked a decent chance to be healed.
What suggestions do you propose to prevent abuse but preserve anti-tunneling?
Deactivate if the survivor heals, repairs, or unhooks. Seems good enough.
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@LustForBP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039924#Comment_1039924
NoED is NOT a guarantee to kills. That is a huge misconception in this game.
If it activates it's usually an extra kill. Speed and instadown do wonders.
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@Saitamfed said:
It happended when I was a leatherface, I don't camp, was following a Nea and he performed a safe unhook to a David (without BT and David without DS) and with the chainsaw I downed them both and hooked the Bill first. There were two times that happended for the David, first a Nea and Bill did the same to that David. I let him go in the second hook because it wasn't his fault and I felt bad for him.
Yes survivors underestimate the chainsaw boys all too often
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Tough luck. 2 kills is what the devs consider balance.
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Haha nope. You have no excuse to report survivors bringing flashlights.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039931#Comment_1039931
I don't disagree with that, but IMO it isn't an excuse to not go with the change to DS that OP is discussing.
It's better to remove the chance for tunneling than the chance for abuse. Besides, there are other changes to DS that can be made to prevent tunneling AND abuse.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It’s survivor sided against any decent survivor that knows how to unhook safely, repair gens, hide, stay healthy the first minute, last 30 seconds in a chase at least, know how to deal / counter certain killers, etc
Even if 4 solo survivors are decent, they’ll most likely all escape, if not 1k.
But when 4 solos who are not so good at those things, not well coordinated, or 2 high ranks and 2 low ranks, only then it seems to be killer sided.
There doesn’t seem to be much balance. It’s either killer gets 4K against people who aren’t so good, or killer gets destroyed by well organized good survivors even IF Killer is good as them 1 to 1.
Rarely are games 2k and balanced like BHVR says it should be. It’s opposite extremes. In my experience playing the past ~5 months.
Killers can guarantee kills with noed though.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039883#Comment_1039883
Sounds like the changes needed go beyond DS, then.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039885#Comment_1039885
Again, what stops the unhooked from being healed in the meantime?
Maybe they don't have 30 seconds to sit around recovering.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039807#Comment_1039807
I'd say then maybe such a change can encourage teammates into playing a little better as opposed to just assuming that a safety net can just easily take care of things.
Or maybe such a change would allow killers to tunnel with the only anti-tunneling perk in the game not being able to stop it?
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Yes that is one of many changes emblem system needs.
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@emptyCups said:
How can you possibly call it a tunnel if killer goes after someone else?
What's your tunnel defining at ?
Immediately hooking a survivor who has been unhooked, making no attempt at juggling pressure.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039774#Comment_1039774
Except that's not necessarily dominating the game. Sometimes the killer just gets lucky and suddenly gets to build some momentum. And while you're getting DS'd, those other two survivors are being saved. In that moment, the killer loses all their momentum. They're back to having no one on the hook.
Deactivating after one other survivor has been hooked could be abused, but deactivating after two other survivors have been hooked... that would be reasonable.
But if nothing else it should deactivate upon the survivor starting an action like repairing gens or going for a hook save. A killer shouldn't be DS'd when they grab a survivor making a hook save. If that survivor with DS is healthy when they decide to make a save in the killer's face, there's no way for anyone other than a one-hit-down killer to stop them.
Yes those changes would be ideal
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@Shaai1 said:
Once killer focus on someone else a.k.a unhooker its not tunneling.
If killer is still able to catch even the unhooked one after downing unhooker, its unhooked one mistake, he has enough time to run away.
It is just not tunneling anymore.
The killer can instantly down the unhooker if they are close enough when the unhook happens if I'm not mistaken. And that's just while healthy.
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@Shaai1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039143#Comment_1039143
Self care is fine as it is.
DS should deactivate after you:
- Unhook survivor
- Get healed
- Touch generator
- Another survivor has been hooked
DS should be useless? Yea I guess tunneling is fun
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Games on console last longer I hear.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039195#Comment_1039195
In a 1v4, the 1 SHOULD be the power role, because the 4 are the strength in numbers role.
??
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I don't really understand the motivation behind it.
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I don't really know how Self Care can be nerfed any further.
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@Oicimau said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1037601#Comment_1037601
Well, the sports examples and other games examples are not killer or survivor related, they show an usual behaviour of both sides.
This part implies im also talking about killers that complain: "instead of being a crying baby about how other manage to win a match, i rather get better and beat those killers, as much as "toxic" survivors".
But i see the text looks like sided. Its cause in my experienca as survivor and killer, up to this day, i never got a killer complaining about anything, while I get offenses almost daily from survivors. So I have more examples of that.
But I know killers cry about meta perks of survivors. Just never happened to me.
Those must also stop doing that and learn to play better.
Yea I thought as much. Thanks for clarifying.
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@C3Tooth said:
Nurse nerf, Spirit nerf, Ruin nerf. Killer players decided to leave.
I still play around with Trapper & Shape though.
I with to see there is a Percentage of player searching as Killer or Survivor. To see how the searching rate is going. Keep in mind the rate should be K 20% / S 80%. Im afraid searching game as Killer is below 10% by now.
I think killer is still 30%+ of the players still.
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Queue times have been hell since swf matchmaking change. What a funny coincidence. Rn my queue times are only about 2-3 mins but before ruin change they were around 4 mins.
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Interesting take. You laid out the core of the game but to me it didn't really explain why it is survivor sided.
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@Oicimau said:
Oh, please read again and you see Im talking about both sides.
Not really...
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@aeonskul said:
It is not as though I was nerfing BT as a whole, just deactivating it during the End Game Collapse so it becomes tense for more than just the Killer.
No. Egc is not a time for free kills nor should altruistic actions be discouraged during that time.