Vetrathene
Vetrathene
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@Rydog said:
I'm going to lay this out one last time, since it's moot and they implemented the exact mori change I have long been advocating for.
Old moris erase 1/3 of the killer's objectives. The red mori requires the killer to achieve 8 objectives instead of 12. From the moment the game loads, it just simply removes 4 of 12 objectives from the game. This is the most goalpost-moving mechanic in the entirety of Dead by Daylight. It is the equivalent of survivors starting a match with 2 of 5 generators already finished (assuming we count opening the door as 1 of 6 survivor objectives). The fact that it ever existed this way, especially when you really sit down and consider it in these terms, is mind-blowing.
Now, moris only work on survivors who have been hooked twice. This means:
- It is still tactically strong because it can be used to shut down a lot of Decisive Strike and Unbreakable play.
- It may conceivably save time spent walking to a hook for the final time.
- It retains the cool thematic bit of the mori, which is the slasher kill animation.
- It no longer drastically moves the goalposts of the match.
Now they just need to fix keys!
Why didn’t they release the key fix at the same time by waiting? And those are all niche uses for the new mori; and still leaves it’s value at less then a penny. I.e worthless
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@Claudette_Baguette said:
They are NOT useless, they can still counter a survivor's DS if you dont't tunnel at first hook. Also, it can save you lots of time when hooks are far away.
By don’t tunnel, you mean “hope you can keep track of sixty seconds in your head and remember which survivors have been hooked in the constant pressure cooker that is killer gameplay and not accidentally pick how survivor that somehow still has DS?”
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@Mandy said:
Or if you look at it the other way, the Developers are neither survivor or killer sided and make the changes purely based on game health - same when putting in mechanics that affected survivors, like the toolbox changes, adding in exhaustion, healing changes. With keys being infinitely more complicated to change, rather than the simple condition change for Mori, and it improving the health of the game it does seem completely logical to put that change into place as quickly as possible rather than wait until the key change was ready to be released.
Except he change makes Moris mechanically worthless. (There are niche uses for them possibly, but in terms of worth, they have none). It was released after the Moris has been nerfed once before. When that happend key changes where promised but STILL haven’t materialized. Why couldn’t they wait a bit longer, or figure out a change that wasn’t so drastic and from what it sounds like, lazy. As it was “easier” to do.
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@zackdaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805590#Comment_1805590
then please Einstein, what can they do the fix keys? Only be used after all gens are done? Pointless. Moris were changed because they’re much easier than changing keys. They have to make keys not pointless, while also keeping in mind they have an achievement where all 4 survivors need to escape through hatch. I’m sure something will happen soon with keys, but a simple switch to the hook requirement is much easier than totally revamping keys
But it’s ok to make Moris pointless? Because that’s what they are now. Also. They. Could. Have. Waited.
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@Boodge said:
Equating keys to moris is an odd choice. Moris are far more game breaking than keys.
Moris are also a one time use. Keys can be used multiple times. Both used to end the game quicker. Moris won’t do that anymore.
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@Ramxenoc445 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803799#Comment_1803799
That's what happens when you're a bad sport and tunnel and use them right away. You get what you deserve. They're not worthless either you just can't abuse it anymore. I was hoping they'd go the route of requiring you to hook everyone once though but this is fine too
So if tunneling deserves to be punished, does that mean genrushing should too? They are both just parts of the game after all right? Or is this another arbitrary survivors rulebook for killers?
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@Mushwin said:
They executed it so quickly, because killers would be using their mori's left right and center! so just jump announcing it was a good move, gave killers less time to get their mori's out.
Unlike how they announced BNP nerfs ahead of time and the survivors got to have buckets of free time to use and abuse them? More favoritism from the devs.
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@Artick said:
Being able to mori someone is an extremely overpowered concept, that's why killer mains like it. How would you make it fun for everyone(unless everyone = killer) when it completely negates the game for survivors?
Using a key to escape with your teammates is an extremely overpowered concept; that’s why survivor mains like it. And keys have never been nerfed, while Moris have been nerfed twice
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805639#Comment_1805639
I'm both..because the community went over this subject thousands of times and this is what we got
Yeah, you would think after already meeting Moris once they would have been more careful and precise with the nerf. As well as actually changing keys at the same time.
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@Yords said:
Was the mori nerf a good nerf? I will say yes, or at least it is better than what it was (what it "was", I can't believe I am saying this). This was too powerful as it was before and now that it is nerfed, I feel like BHVR might actually be starting to fix big issues. However, this is a bit of a stretch. But still, first the clown and wraith buffs and now this? Things are looking up, I hope it stays this way.
I am pretty sure they are looking at keys next, which is also fantastic.
Now, I am still hesitant on buying things from BHVR. This is great news, the best we have heard in a while. Let's just wait and see where this goes. I wouldn't fully forgive BHVR just yet, but it seems they are starting to get on my good side. Right now, let's just hope for the best.
I think the nerf was too much as Moris are mechanically useless now. Moris have been nerfed twice while keys haven’t been touched.
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@RocketPenguin said:
Yes, but there are still lots of people who just hate any nerf towards killer though. And just look at the posts, the devs and community managers are getting way more likes than the person complaining.
Let’s see...because survivors are the majority? And the majority is always right? Wait no; majority has nothing to do with rightness, it’s just the number of people patting each other on the back. The fact people are angry is twofold, from my own experiences and what I’ve gathered. One; it’s a change that makes Moris mechanically useless. Two, they didn’t change keys at the same time, which is a problem mainly because they nerfed Moris once and said keys where coming. We are still waiting for at change.
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I’m it even mad. I’m just very disappointed in the devs.
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803868#Comment_1803868
because they want to do something more complex for keys, this change of moris literally took them a single code line change.
But. Why. Didn’t. They. Wait?
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@RocketPenguin said:
they are its just reworks take longer than a number change on moris. Both have been confirmed already.
“Confirmed.” Yeah, they said key changes where coming back when they first nerfed Moris. I’m still waiting.
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I agree, revert them until you have a key rework ready.
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Keys have never been touched by the net bat. Moris have been nerfed twice. Seems to show some favoritism to me.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
Keys have never been anywhere near the same level of game breaking that ebony moris were. You live in an alternate reality if you think they're comparable. If you don't like playing killer anymore, stop playing the game. Or play survivor. If it's not fun for you, stop playing.
Don’t worry, I already uninstalled it this morning. Enjoy your queue times.
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The thing is that both Moris and keys have been complained about for about as long as they have been in the game. Keys have never been touched though, while moris have been needed TWICE.
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@Avilgus said:
Seems like a lazy rework, i hope it's just temporaly until a proper one.
At least they didn't announce it.
Hah!
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@MythMage said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804657#Comment_1804657
And that is your choice. I've stopped playing Overwatch until they can get their balance together. What was it that Mathieu Cote said?
"Maybe, take a break? Play survivor for a little bit. Maybe you're burnt out. O-or play something else for a change? Go play Civilization or something"
I'm actually not burnt out, I just got back into the game. But this one sided game is making me quit in protest more then being done with the game.
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@lucid4444 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804584#Comment_1804584
Keys have nothing to do with moris.
Keys are going to get nerfed, but it'll take time.
Nerfing moris is the right choice. If you think they're useless, you don't play this game at all
But why is it going to take time? Why didn't they wait for both to be ready so both sides of the community felt included? Both frustrate the opposing side. Both where seen as OP. But because one was 'simpler' it had to get pushed out? After Mori's had already been nerfed and keys never have been? In fact they are stronger now then they used to be because of how hatch can spawn even with no generators are done and the killer closing it does not prevent a key from being used.
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@lewisty said:
Honest reaction?
Not surprised in the slightest... and unfortunately thats the nicest way I can put it
Yep. I'm not even mad, I'm just disappointed.
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@MythMage said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804632#Comment_1804632
Who knows. In the meantime, we just have to wait. It's all we can do. If it helps, just imagine any survivor who escapes using a key as someone saying "We would have lost anyway, I forfeit". It makes keys a million times less frustrating, even a little satisfying
My waiting will involve not playing this game and playing something else that has better balance.
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@MythMage said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804584#Comment_1804584
Keys WILL get a similar treatment. Besides, mori's shouldn't be powerful. Offerings shouldn't have a huge effect on a match. Perks, items, and addons? Yes. Offerings? Not really. Mori's were too strong and them being useless is fine. As for keys, they are less of a problem, but still a problem nonetheless
Sure. But WHEN? How long will it take? Mori's got nerfed before, and keys did not. Keys never have been. It makes it hard to keep up hope that they ever will be.
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@Terra92 said:
I have Doc leveled to 40 and he's got like 8 ebony moris. I don't think I'll ever use em unless I have a daily, but they're not that rare.
They aren't that rare. But its more the perception that BHVR is giving of favoritism, as well as making Mori's literally do nothing but a (possibly) cool animation.
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@MythMage said:
I disagree. Moris were a problem for a long time, and they shouldn't be used to steamroll a game for free.
The problem over all is, they where nerfed to uselessness, and the fact keys didn't get a similar treatment.
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@GeordieKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804414#Comment_1804414
From what im seeing no one are disagreeing with the nerf to mori the issue is that it should of been done at the same time as keys as both mori and keys are issues for the respective sides and a very well noted issues for the sides i might add. Both cut games short both are broken asf in the right hands both needed changes.
What this patch has done is cause more frustartions, potential increase in toxic behaviour from the survivors and gain more posts on why devs are survivor sided which in turn has done more damage to the already fragile trust that the killer community have over the devs.
While yes i do agree healthy change and yes mori needed the changes this should of been done with changes to keys to keep the peace.
This exactly. Its about perception. And the perception I have is this is just bad decisions and favoritism all around.
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@Mandy said:
Mori's have been an offering that's been complained about for a long time (as are keys), and we declared some time back that we would be making adjustments to both of these items. We didn't say it would be the same time, in fact the key rework is going to take some time longer as the mori was a much quicker fix to implement as it was just a change of conditions whilst keys might need an animation rework, addon pass etc
Also, it's fair to say that mori's are stronger than keys - a mori can end a match much quicker than a key can as there's more conditions to being able to use a key, gens have to be completed or the killer has to have killed the other survivors etc, there's infinitely more gameplay around keys than there is mori's - perks also can affect keys, whereas there's no counterplay to a mori at all.
One: Could have waited for both to be ready.
Two:Moris are now useless and serve no function in improving the killers power.
Three: There have already suggestions about making moris based on the total number of hooks to activate.
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@CakeDuty said:
I'm glad they're changed. They were offerings, so they shouldn't have such a big impact on the game. No other offering was as game changing as moris were. Less/more hooks, less/more mist, don't really have a drastic outcome on a match. Also them being so strong and only an offering made it possible for killers to use their strongest addons, like iri heads + ebony and totally break the balance of the game. Also try to imagine if survivors had an offering that allowed them to do one gen less, that'd be the survivors version of a mori. So I'm glad that moris were changed to be a cosmetic offering, rather than gamechanging one, though I don't think they're worth the 7k bp.
Moris were far worse than keys anyway. Survivors have conditions to complete x amount of gens for the key to work, moris was basically just hook once and tunnel. Not saying that keys are fine, they definitely need to be nerfed as well, but I understand the reasoning that moris only needed tweaking, while keys need some kind of rework. So it was easier/faster to tweak them.
Except offerings can and do have a big impact on the game. You can change what map your on (like survivors going to Haddonfield). Back in the day changing the mist affected things, not so much now but it still had an impact (and was changed more by graphics change then by actually trying to balance things). You can influence where the trap door is going to be. And back in the day you used to be able to change the light level of the game. Now, the theme does seem to be them making offerings less and less important...which makes you wonder why keep them inf the game if they have little effect? And finally, keys aren't offerings. They are items. You can keep them after a match. And as they are an escape tool...you have a good chance of keeping them and using them again. They can be found in chests. You can get perks to make a higher chance of finding them in chests. Killers have to pay bloodpoints, and lose the mori even if they never used it.
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@Zaytex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804429#Comment_1804429
No?
If Keys are THAT much of a problem for you, bring Franklins and tunnel the survivor who brought it, since no one else will be able to find it (they're practically invisible) and the tunnelled survivor won't be able to pick it up before it's taken by the entity.
Keys are so overexaggerated as a problem in this game IMO.
Whether its exageratted or not, the fact of the matter is that killers got a offering DESTROYED. While on the survivor side, keys have remained the same since launch.
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@Quenuo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804005#Comment_1804005
Or option 2 do not play as killer until the keys are nerfed,.
I'm not even playing this game anymore until keys are nerfed. And I just got back into this game too. Too bad the devs ruined it for me already.
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@Zaytex said:
Mori's being strong just promotes toxic and unhealthy gameplay from both sides.
Now, they still add some element of power to the killer, but aren't oppressive to survivors and are what they should be, a fun addition to the killer's arsenal.
Not something to destroy every single survivor you come across.
And now we will have teams of survivors each with a key and no way to stop them from using the hatch. Keys no longer have a counter and are still just as powerful as ever. In fact, I don't believe keys have ever been nerfed, while moris have been nerfed TWICE now with no recompense.
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@Zaytex said:
Mori's are stronger, so its fair they were weakened first.
The developers have already said the change won't be necessarily in the same patch, give it a little bit of time before complaining about it.
This is a healthy change for the game.
It would be, if keys where getting nerfed at the same time. Now people are going to bringing keys out of the wood work because they have no counter to them.
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804379#Comment_1804379
It's in the patch notes, specifically at the very top with the rest of the notable changes.
This discussion is about the release statement, not the patch notes.
The release statement though has mention of 'noteworthy' changes happening the bugfix. Mori's are not mentioned there. Which means the communication has a kink in it. Either the devs didn't think it was noteworth (which seems unlikely), or it was an oversight (possible), or they where trying to obfuscate the impact.
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@horrortale_sans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/211957/going-to-nerf-keys-bhvr
give them a break alot of people complaind about the moris now that they fixed them you complain about them not fixing keys
I never complained about Moris. I complained about keys. It feels like my complaints are being ignored while other (survivor) complaints are being listened to. And thats the thing. Its how this change makes me feel, not what the devs may or may not be trying to do it. Its about perception, and my perception is that currently survivors are being favored.
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Apparently through Mori's getting nerfed was not a noteworthy enough change to mention in this release. They are still trying to obfuscate things.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804334#Comment_1804334
Well One down one to go
It really should have been both at the same time though. Perception matters, especially in a competitive, asymmetric game where sides are accused of being favored.
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It means me not playing the game anymore until they nerf keys. So see you all in a year or so I guess?
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@Shenanigan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/211957/going-to-nerf-keys-bhvr
Devs literally said they're fixing BOTH keys and moris WAAAAY back around blight or pyramid Head came along, there's nothing survivor sided about this. They fixing bugs for the buggiest chapter while also giving victor a ground up animation for the locker problem, and then giving the downed incapacitated survivor the blood warden delay so they can't escape immediately after being downed.
Plus moris being tweaked aren't the end you just have to work a bit for them more to do them. I play both sides so yeah getting keys & Annotated Blueprint games S U C K because you're constantly on edge and dreading about the eventually teabagging and clicky clicky at hatch. But it's nothing to show that the devs are biased over. Keys will get their nerf/tweak it all comes down to how they make those changes for keys.
They. Could. Have. Waited. The fact they said they where going to work on both, only released one (on the survivors side of course), and did it during a HOTFIX instead of a full patch just comes off as...I don't even know really, its such a mix of so many bad and ill informed choices I can't describe it.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Its a much needed and welcome change. I'm not saying that with any bias because I will be popping champagne bottles when they nerf keys into the ground, too.
They should have waited to do both at the same time.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804206#Comment_1804206
Game balance, not actual "even steven".
Do you know the meaning of the word balance? Because this change isn't it. Its one sided. And completely making a tool useless instead of making it less useful. And I really don't see keys getting this kind of treatment.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803902#Comment_1803902
no, thats not exactly the point of offerings.
offerings are suppost to have a drastic impact over the game, which is why they get consumed afterwards (a one time only use).
you can select the realm you want to play on, change the thickness of the fog (which, tbf, was a lot more gamechanging back in the day), increase / decrease the amount of chests, force a beneficial basement / hatch spawn or just simply boost the points you get.
Moris are ment to be a powerful killer offering, one that is ment to cut their objective down by a certain amount. im not trying to defend the old versions, those were broken af and desperately needed to be changed - but they just absolutely gutted them.
not only is it absolutely not understandable why this simple of a change could not have been done years earlier, but its also a change that shows that they dont really have any idea what they are doing (which after this last chapter honestly doesnt rly come as a surprise to me).
a similarly simple fix that would have also allowed them to stay a powerful offering would have been to shift the requirement to "having every survivor hooked once" - it would even have gotten rid of a problem that the current change didnt get rid off, which is the killer hardtunneling someone for their mori to work.
it would ALSO have added some actual counterplay to them, as, as long as one survivor stayed hidden well, the killer would be unable to ever use their mori.
their change however just ended up being the "i have no idea what to do with that so lets just increase the numbers by 1 and hope for the best" change.
You should be head of the balance team at BHVR.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804167#Comment_1804167
Because we now have one less overpowered thing in the game. That is balance.
...If there is one less rotten apple on one side of the scale but the same amount on the other side of the scale, is the scale balanced?
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@Rizzo said:
The mori change was easier to make, since it's basically just a change of a condition. I believe nerfing the keys requires animation changes and/or addon changes, that require much more time.
The devs could have waited. It was an easy wait. I've been told...we as a community have been told to be patient with things like this. When one side gets nerfed and the corresponding side does not (in my experince usual killers getting nerfed and survivors either getting buffed or not nerfed at all), its frustrating, and shows the devs don't have patience to wait for both. So I am done being patient. I want a corresponding key change, or I want this nerf reverted until both are ready.
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There is none. At least competitively. They are only there if you want to see some (potentially) cool kills. But in terms of the game they do nothing now. They are useless while keys are still OP.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804121#Comment_1804121
And waiting to nerf Moris means leaving the game unbalanced longer.
you should not just put it out because its done for one side.
Strong disagree. Having two OP things is worse than having one OP thing. You don't wait to fix a problem until a separate problem can be fixed.
Mori's aren't fixed, they are useless. So unless keys are somehow going to be useless, I don't see how we are going to get balance. Maybe if they make it so a hatch can only be opened with a key when one survivor is left and 3 gens have been done, then maybe. But I don't see them doing that, and who knows how long before we get the devs 'solution'?
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804102#Comment_1804102
Well they did what they wanted to do I’m happy Mori’s got nerfed they were so stupid. I find it funny how everyone wanted mori’s to be nerfed like this and when we actually get it everyone is throwing a temper tantrum.
I actually never wanted Mori's to be nerfed like this. I would rather they be taken out of the game as they serve no purpose now. I mean the animations are cool but in a competitive environment very few people are going to use them.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804094#Comment_1804094
They absolutely should not wait. You come up with a solution you're satisfied with, you ship that solution ASAP. I'd rather have one OP thing in the game than two.
I would rather the game be balanced. And thats fine when its a bug fix or graphics update, But when it comes to balance and it tips the scales one way or the other, you should not just put it out because its done for one side.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804054#Comment_1804054
Oh shut up they already announced that keys are getting changed just because keys didn’t get nerfed first does not mean there biased just be more patient
They.Could.Have.Waited. They didn't. BHVR are the ones who need to learn patience.
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They did, but they could have waited, and they didn't. Whether its intentional or not, they did not have the foresight to think this through at the best, and at the worst they actually do favor survivors. It should be reverted until they have the ability to change keys. I've been through this rigamorole so many times now. Where its 'easier' to change something for survivors and they will 'eventually' change it for killers.