Vetrathene
Vetrathene
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808608#Comment_1808608
The original Mori was even worse though.. it allowed you to mori anyone without them even having to be hooked. They were still 1000x stronger than keys ever were. Mori's arent mechanically useless and can come in clutch at end game when you need to secure that kill. They still bypass DS, Flashlight saves, Pallet saves, Power Struggle, Sabotaging and save you the time of having to find a hook.
I said worthless. Not useless. That have minor use; but are not WORTH taking them or even paying for them in a blood web.
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@ZtarShot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808697#Comment_1808697
angwy about thing that needed to get taken care of
Just like keys right? No those are fine staying as they are without any clear date on change for the last 3 years.
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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808557#Comment_1808557
- No.
- Soon™
- Its been fun.
1.yes
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808679#Comment_1808679
It was a good nerf but not doing both at the same time bad
I disagree, it was a lazy nerf. They are mechanically worthless now. It was slapdashed onto a HOTFIX. It should have been done at the same time, or at least the update scheduled should be more transparent instead of nearly opaque.
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@jotaro said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DEJ960JV8SO9/screenshot-20201209-103345.jpg
And no, moris aren't useless. We just need to adapt.
The animations they've supposedly been working on for 3 years since the first Mori nerf? The animations that are being worked on but aren't finished even though new generator animations where? The animations that are being worked on but this graphic update came first? These mori's getting nerfed in haphazard, sloppy and lazy way on a HOTFIX instead of on a main patch? Without any warning, without any clear commentary for the reasoning?
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And theres one of my problems. Keys are potentially getting a much more through rework then Mori's have gotten. Again with the time of 'who knows?', as well as the fact that key changes where promised YEARS ago when Mori's where first nerfed and we still haven't gotten them; does not give me a lot of hope.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808595#Comment_1808595
Yeah, I'd definitely agree with you there. In some games you can relax and mess around with the survivors a bit, but against good teams you need to be laser focused on not wasting time and making the right play.
Yep, and when one mistake can make or break a game, thats not very good for fun or balance in my opinion.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808497#Comment_1808497
provide one
I haven't seen a single suggestion that is as fair as simply increasing the amount of hooks needed.
is it boring? yes, would i want something else if it was better of course but so far i haven't seen such a idea in all my time in these forums.
Its not just boring, it makes it a worthless offering. And there is a great suggestion of requiring every survivor to have been hooked once, and then the more will be activated, or at least get a charge. That seems fine to me, doesn't encourage tunneling, and keeps the offering worthwhile.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807884#Comment_1807884
When did the devs state that? If your reasoning is that they nerfed mori's first that's not very sound when og ds took at least two long years to rework. Freddy was in a misrable state for a similar period I'd argue that should have been priority. But that water under the bridge.
My concern is this key change is going to be some increase on hatch opening or a limit on people which won't address its core issue which is hatch needs to spawn at endgame or all gens done. Anything before that is crazy powerful.
Also you need to put yourself in the killer player shoes if someone comes along with a key into a game what do you do. Franklins wont work since they will either pick it up or you will be forced to guard it. Winning at 5-3 gens is far from easy espicially on weaker killers. Its jardly seems fair. There is two sides to this game both are antagonistic naturally satisfying both instead of demonstrating favoritism agitates the other.
Imagine if I nerfed ds at a time where there was a broken killer who could easily patrol you and was overtuned for those reasons. You would be fumming mad. Now we have a similar situatuon keys end the game much faster then intended similar to mori's. Both share the same frustrations and both have very easy fixes. Shouldn't you for postpone one till the other is prepared for the sake of balance?
Yeah, it feels very one sided, short sided, and honestly was handled with the grace of a bull in a china shop. During an already tumultuous patch that needs fixing. There are so many broken problems after the patch and they decided to nerf Mori's on what seems to be a whim in a lazy and polarizing manner? Like what the hell?
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I agree, Freddy is the powerful killer all killers deserve to be. This is how a power role should be handled. The killer should be the one who gets to make the survivors sweat. Not the other way around.
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@Zixology said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805685#Comment_1805685
Keys don't remove players from the game. Nor can they be used within 2 minutes of the match starting.
Neither do Mori's now. So keys are just better. While Mori's nerf was handled sloppily, lazily, and with no information and thrown into a HOTFIX. If they had handled any of this fiasco better, if they had done one thing that made it seem like this was not just an off hand decision, I could handle this better. But the whole thing is a hot mess.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808422#Comment_1808422
moris are extremely common actually, pretty much 1 per 3 bloodwebs or more because 2 can spawn in bloodwebs sometimes
but most players just accepted them as broken and swore off using them
personally I had 1 scenario which I used a mori
3 keys in a row
but other than that no moris
I would use Mori's now and again in certain situation, but mostly I prefered blood point offerings. But it was still nice to have a threat in my tool box. Now I just have something that is pretty but mechanically worthless. While I like pretty things, I am much more of a function over form person.
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Look forward to longer ones in the future.
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@Ivaldi said:
So a few things.. Mori's are an offering that have no other details to worry about. Keys are an item, they have many factors that come into play such as add-ons, perks, hatchs, maps, and hatch offerings. They take a lot longer to "fix" because of how complex they are.
And lets face it.. At the end of the day, Mori's are a hell of a lot stronger than keys and should be a priority over them. Keys are used when roughly 80%-100% of the survivors objective is done. Where as mori's were useable when only 33.3% of a killers objective were done. So the nerf makes it so killers need to have 66.6% of their objective done still putting them way ahead of the amount of work a survivor has to do to use their key.
Personally, I've never needed a Mori to win against keys; yet Survivors 9/10 times would need a key to beat a killer that first hook Mori's people.
They've been made mecahnically useless though. They are a cosmetic item now for the most part. And while keys might take longer, numerous good suggestions have been made for them. Animations do take time, but they managed to put out new generator animations before keys. And Keys have been talked about as long as Mori's. Mori's have been nerfed twice, keys have been untouched. When Mori's where first nerfed, keys where promised to be changed. This was 3 years ago and we still have nothing.
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Yep, the survivors have a get out of jail free card (amongst many others) still, while the killers have very little in the way no shutting them down. And no idea if the keys are getting nerfed soon, as the only word from BHVR is that they are being worked on, but don't have a date for when that will be. Its been 3 years since the first Mori nerf and keys have not been touched, so it doesn't look like its going to be very soon to me.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806199#Comment_1806199
Sweat squads that are so strong you actually have no chance against as killer are extremely rare. I say this in part because I am not a god-tier killer, but I play at red ranks (relevant for matchmaking only) and when I lose even against good teams it's usually because I over-committed to a chase, inadvertently eat a DS or two, etc. Every once in a while I'll have matches where I feel I actually had no chance, but with matchmaking how it is there's also a fair chance that those players were just better than me.
The other elephant in the room is that kill rates are ~68% at red rank, which is comfortably higher than at all ranks. If kill rates are that high and actually go up at red ranks, that to me says that these killer-stomping sweat squads have to be extremely rare. The only alternative is basically that those squads always smurf, which just isn't likely.
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Until we have a working MMR system and we can see how the game plays at the highest skill tier I don't think it's reasonable to draw conclusions about the killer having no chance in matches. It could well be the case against most killers on most maps, mind you, but too often it feels like a shield people hide behind, because it's easier than analyzing how they might have changed the outcome of a given match through better play.
I think killer still has a chance in any match, but they have to put in eight times the effort of each survivor to get there. Its more stressful, because it takes so much more concentration, thinking, and reading other players. It requires dealing with second chance perks that all work togther while gen slowdown perks don't. Its fighting uphill on a surface that can tilt nearly vertically, and isn't always fun.
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@Kebek said:
Despite the mori nerf being extremely lazy which sucks, I'd be ok with it if keys get the same treatment.
I swear, if they eventually change keys and it'll be only minor tweaks and not complete annihilation (deserved one at that) allowing usefulness in only a few edge cases as now mories have, it'll be even bigger disappointment.
At this point I think they might even completely remove both and nobody would miss either.
I would be fine if both where removed and Mori's just became part of base killer kit the way they are now. (Since they offer very very very few mechanical benefits, which makes them worthless.)
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@Uncharted said:
I'm just gonna chill and play Apex and the RE1 HD Remaster for now. All of you people playing killer out there, you have my respect.
Yep, I've been playing Remnant instead. and I had just gotten back into this game last week. Oh well.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804446#Comment_1804446
If you thought about it critically for a minute, as others in this thread have already done for you, you would see there is still a use for moris.
You can stick to your knee jerk reaction, too, though.
The so called uses (which there are some niche ones) do not make the offering worthwhile still. In terms of WORTH, it has less then none.
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Yep, its pretty bad.
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@MrPeterPFL said:
The Mori change is a good change, now they need to work on Keys
its a lazy change in my opinion. Weirdly lazy I guess? Because it was just kind of done? Like, why now, why no announcement? No explanation? Just kind of there? Its very...weird and frustrating.
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@Cerebral_Harlot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805685#Comment_1805685
Both Mori's and Keys are disliked because they deny the other side opportunity to play a conventional game of DBD. Killers are denied the right to play the last few generators and endgame while survivors are denied the right to play after what would be their second hook.
Yes, and the real problem is timing and perception. And the fact the offering is useless. The fact that it was done with no announcment, was attached to a HOTFIX, and that they have been nerfed twice while keys have been untouched, just makes some people feel like the devs are biased.
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@Ttwylerr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804198#Comment_1804198
Christ you just go to every mori post just to say the dev's could have waited. You should probably just take a break from the game at this point if your this upset.
Oh I uninstalled this game yesterday. Dosen't mean I don't have hope for the future of the game or want to try to change it to something thats fair for everyone. To change it to place with transperancy and explanation. Where criticism is accepted rather then deflected.
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But...what about keys? Why was generator animations prioritized over key unlocking animations? What about the graphics update that broke the blight on those maps? What about Legion? What about a better balance for Moris? WHATABOUT being able to talk about multiple problems at the same time? WHATABOUT the perception of favoritism this creates?
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I agree. They needed a better change. It was lazy and kind of just out of nowhere. The fact it was put in a HOTFIX is messed up. Major changes like this to any aspect of the game should be warned ahead of time, with transperancy and explanation for why it was done. Theres also the fact that other changes (like keys) have been promised YEARS ago but still haven't been delivered. Good thing we got this graphical update that broke the game instead!
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So then why was this Mori change done now? Why haven't keys been worked on in the last 3 years but we get new generator animations for survivors? Why was this put into a HOTFIX with no warning?
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The fact they also threw it into a HOTFIX with no warning at all seem sketchy AF as well.
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@Merridew said:
A lot of the post I'm seeing about the Mori Changes are either Killers just whining or Survivors cheering. And I don't get why, this change doesn't really fix anything.
The whole issue with Mori's people had was that you could tunnel someone off first hook and Mori them. But now you're telling me someone just has to tunnel me an extra time or camp me into the struggling phase before they Mori me?
The fix the Mori's needed was to hook everyone once before you could Mori them, this encourages, or more so actually forces the killer to go after the other Survivors if they want to use their Mori.
The only reason the Mori works in Pyramid Head's basekit is cause it requires them to not only be on deathhook, but they must be tormented too, so he can't just easily tunnel you into a Mori since there's two requirements he must achieve. But at this point Mori's serve no point as an offering, if they're just going to have the survivor reach struggling phase before a Mori then it should just be basekit for Killers.
I would be ok with that change. Not happy, but ok. Its just ridiculous they serve no purpose mechanically anymore except in niche situations. Which makes them still worthless
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@Killing_Time said:
That's the point. Survivors will never be how they should be... Struggling to survive. They pay 4x more than killers so they're priority. It's business 101.
Its scummy business 101 you mean.
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@Kaitsja said:
Keys and Moris both needed changing and while they aren't the same thing, they are both extremely powerful and are used to cut part of the game short. More importantly, they needed changing at the same time rather than doing one first and then the other maybe whenever.
Yes. Its about perception. Especially the perception that Mori's already got nerfed 3 years ago and we still haven't seen a change or any real word on a change to keys. But don't worry, animations take time, which is why they made new generator animations first!
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Moris still required an objective. And this change just makes them mechanically useless, unlike keys which still have a use.
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The problem is it feels lazy and weirdly rushed for something that could have done in the last 3 years. And still no change to keys since the first mori nerf. They obviously spent more time on working on generator animations then trying to fix keys. Good Priorities.
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Yep, its pretty egregious overall.
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@JakConstantine said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806305#Comment_1806305
It depends it's not just the timing, but for how long one side has to wait to get the equal balance too. Like for keys now and how long until the changes comes out? Weeks, months? We just don't know, but in the meantime one side suffers because of this even if it's a good improvement to one thing. That's why you are seeing people complaining and also showing a false narrative of people saying they are survivor sided.
As it hasn't come out in over the three years since the first mori, we probably have another 3 years. Animations take time after all. (Even though they got out new animations for the generators and graphics overall on maps recently). Just be patient. *wink wink nudge nudge*
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I think they should be reworked so once you get 4 hook states the mori activates.
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Me too. Me too.
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@murnk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803902#Comment_1803902
Are you trying to say that being able to practically determine which map you play on ISNT drastically changing the game? Tell that to killers dealing with Haddonfield offerings.
-shudder in horror- haddonfield...that cursed a place
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@azame said:
So I want to start off and say you cant complain about keys not being nerfed when it isnt just a number change and mori is. The nerf will come in due time so let's give the devs time.
To start before the nerf people were down with the nerf to mori despite never using them. If you ask any killer main here they will say they rarely use moris. But now that it's been nerfed why are these same killer mains complaining about it being "useless".
I seriously cant understand how we people are getting angry about an objectively broken thing getting nerfed, and claiming bias. It doesnt look good and atleast on my experience I can say killers are more whiny and it kinda shows but let's ignore that for now and think about this.
What if keys were to be nerfed first and moris left under the guise of "moris are rarely used". Guarenteed any complaint from a survivor is shut down because everyone knows survivors are the oppressors and killers are the oppressed.
That's just speculation but I'd say its accurate for what it is.
It’s not about how easy it is. If it was the ease of change behind this; they could have done it ages ago. The thing is timing and placement, which leads to perception. It was done with no fanfare; no announcement, and was just thrown into a HOTFIX. A hotfix. A place for fixing bugs. So was this a but the whole time they couldn’t fix whenhey first nerfed Moris? Also as a killer main; I never said I wanted them nerfed ever, but I was fine after the first nerf. This nerf is just gutting them. Second; a key nerf would have been more fair; as they weren’t touched when Moris first where. But we have been told to wait for a key rework for years; without any sign of it while this is just talking in how brazen it is. It is unfair; and the perception seems to show further survivor bias.
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@Monika said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806580#Comment_1806580
Or are you being the exact same thing that you're trying to call out? Childish? Yeah SWF did save the game from extinction, but in terms of balance its extremely unbalanced and unfair. So do you just hate killers, or are you being childish and ignoring what is actually a problem.
The take would have been fine without it; the problem was review bombing because it wasn’t in the game as protest; and the devs got scared and rushed it into the game without worrying about balance or how it would affect a game not designed for it.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806576#Comment_1806576
Never said it was easy did I. I said killing survivors isn't that hard. Most red ranks are trash and if you lose to people who cant loop they must be tournament level or you can't pressure at all. When I played killer most my matches were wins and when i had a good team it was hard even with oni and yeah I had some HARD games. But I can safely say its not hard to not lose to a key. The really good players almost never rely on keys so the chances of getting wrecked are low and even then unless its a set keys aren't that big of an issue the biggest issue is the fear factor
So the good survivors never lose to Moris too then right? I mean; a measure of logic stands that the same should hold true, so why nerf Moris?
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@Ttwylerr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805628#Comment_1805628
Because too damn bad they don't need to now quit crying.
No.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
I mean, the memento mori is meant to just be a cool way of killing a survivor compared to sacrificing the survivor to the Entity.
It's only become a bigger and bigger issue as survivors have expected to get more and more hook states per trial (and now most survivors expect almost max hook score events per game). It's much less of an issue when survivors are dying on first hook (i.e. why the memento mori could be used before hooking a survivor upon launch).
So, I'm alright with the mori change itself in light of the current state of the game, but the mori change means that the devs are even more unlikely to address that expectation of survivors are guaranteed more than one hook, and I'm not so satisfied with that.
If that was the case, why is it an ultra rare? It costs too many blood points to be only useful for a cosmetic purpose. And if that was the purpose the entire time; why wasn’t the current nerf the base of the offering?
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805799#Comment_1805799
Its not😂 but the point is your point is wrong. Killing survivors isn't that hard meaning keys are useless if you are good and a mori is way stronger than a key
Anyone who says playing killer is easy, is either exceedingly good at this game (which is rare), or Dosent main killer.
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@Sluzzy said:
Items are supposed to be "useful". A key has to be worked for. If they keep nerfing stuff, they need to remove the bloodweb and remove chests because toolboxes are already useless.
Offerings are supposed to be useful too.
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@MrDardon said:
I guess me 4king the majority of my Matches without a Mori means that they are necessary in order to win. Everyone who played this game for at least 2 minutes and has a functional brain will say that Mori's were overpowered in their pre nerf state. How can you defend them? Are you the occasional Freddy Main with Spam Snares/Slowdown Add-Ons and Ebony Mori or don't you just see that Moris were always overpowered?
You got some screenshots to back this up? Also your skill may not equate to the majority of killers. Which with how the devs have said before they balance this game; shouldn’t that what buffing and nerfing killers are based off? Oh wait no that’s only survivors.
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Yes, just like survivors use skill with BT, DS, Adrenaline and Unbreakable.
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And look forward to even longer cue times after this Mori nerf
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@Danoobiel said:
So Moris are useless now, cool.
Might as well remove them from the game.
But SWF, blending, keys, maps, infinity heals, 12+ pallets per map, loops, spin2win, DS, unbreakable, BT, dead hard, adrenaline are totally fine and do not need to be looked at.
Cool story bro.
Yep. It’s ok for second chance perks to work together; but we can’t have those pesky killer slowdown perks working together. That wouldn’t be fun (for survivors).
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@Monika said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806241#Comment_1806241
Because if every one person does their damn job ONCE, it only takes one death to let 3 leave.
And that's not an offerings that's an item that is free to use and actually has add-ons to keep it from breaking on death and even when you jump in the hatch and is a lower rarity than an actual mori.
Yep, it’s pretty egregious.