Again the main problem is the release timing of game balances (Another Mori change nerf topic)
So I posted this in the past and as for the topic it's happened again. This time with mori/keys balances rather than new content and content balances.
@JakConstantine said:
As I put in the title I think the timings with new content and game blanches were at the wrong time. The new doctor should have been a separate release to the ruin changes, since ruin was overshadowed and more talked about than the new doctor recently. It's not really about if you like the changes or not, but the content which got put more work and time into got less attention than the one which didn't. It's a shame cause the new doctor changes are good.
If this is possible if you do changes to killers (positive or not) try to put them with survivors changes at the same time or close to. Just an idea to prevent more "Devs been survivor sided" arguments or vice versa which the devs aren't in my opinion.
I saw and I know the mori are easier to fix before keys, but that's not the point. The point is timing and it would be better if it was both released at the same time rather than separately. Cause of this, it's created a big divide in the community and shows an big false narrative of "Survivor biased" to the devs. Seen streamers/fog whisperers mentioning this today also.
Comments
Yeah. Does this change make the game objectively healthier? Absolutely. Does it seem like the devs, in doing so, furthered the divide in the conception of their differing treatments of each side? That seems to be the case.
Like I have said on other posts, it is so much better than what we have now and to keep in mind that we are dealing with BHVR here. They aren't exactly the best when it comes to things like these, but they are capable of making good changes.
I think that they should focus on making the game better whenever they can rather than waste effort on trying to convince conspiracy crackpots that they're wrong. Idiots cry that their side is being victimized whenever something is nerfed regardless of what other changes get shipped together. It's best to just ignore people who have nothing constructive to offer.
Or if you look at it the other way, the Developers are neither survivor or killer sided and make the changes purely based on game health - same when putting in mechanics that affected survivors, like the toolbox changes, adding in exhaustion, healing changes. With keys being infinitely more complicated to change, rather than the simple condition change for Mori, and it improving the health of the game it does seem completely logical to put that change into place as quickly as possible rather than wait until the key change was ready to be released.
So, if something is unbalanced it, they should just balance it when everything else is balanced? That doesn't make much sense. I'd rather them pushing patches with something reworked than with nothing at all, just to wait months until everything else is reworked as well.
One of these days I am just imagining if the mechanics were rolled back to 2016 for a week just so it becomes clear how much the unfairness of survivors has been eliminated.
Yes absolutely on the first question, on the second yes, but not intentional.
The thing also by doing this now make things unfair on the killers side cause they have to wait on the changes for survivors side to balance out the process. Not intentional cause the changes improves the health of the game.
For example imagine libra scales and the best for it is to create equal balance. Then imagine adding one side out weighting the other and the reason for it is very good reason. The thing is It's out weights the other side and the problem is both sides need to be equal to create balance.
Imo this change was too heavy handed to come all alone when a counterbalance (keys) is not likely to come any time soon, if at all.
It removed a huge amount of killer lethality, and for some, an actual equalizer/insurance against what may be a group of survivors packing overwhelming force. Especially with matchmaking being a joke.
Even with running any Mori now survivors have gained a lot of room to make mistakes now when killers already walk a tightrope. Again, especially with bad matchmaking.
It does not feel like killers got anything in return for the added difficulty.
This will likely be pretty unhealthy before the health benefits actually kick in as far as game health goes.
technically they weren't infinitly more difficult to change because when moris were first changed in patch 1.5.3 to include the stipulation of you have to hook a survivor it was probably harder than this current change because not only did they set up the framework to make that possible they also set up the framework to make that modifiable, so like probably only 2-3 times harder because a few addons and animations
Except he change makes Moris mechanically worthless. (There are niche uses for them possibly, but in terms of worth, they have none). It was released after the Moris has been nerfed once before. When that happend key changes where promised but STILL haven’t materialized. Why couldn’t they wait a bit longer, or figure out a change that wasn’t so drastic and from what it sounds like, lazy. As it was “easier” to do.
I think it does make sense changing both at the same time if they will do so, but I can't help but think this was rather necessary, thus it shouldn't have been so divisive as you mentioned.
Before, and I say this as one that played most as killer, we had lot's of changes from maps and those, so far as I see, only benefited killers for the most part. Saying they can't realease something that acts only for one side because of timing I don't think it makes much sense in regards to that.
Some changes benefit killers, others, survivors. That's how ballance should look like. I hope now they are more focused on bugs and then: buff to clown, demogorgon, correct legion, nerf Freddy, and change some OP loops that remain (several windows and pallets contiguous) along with massive dead zones that are unfair for survivors.
I don't see the point of waiting. If you know what sort of change you want to make, why wait? It's not like moris are the one thing keeping keys from destroying the game.
It depends it's not just the timing, but for how long one side has to wait to get the equal balance too. Like for keys now and how long until the changes comes out? Weeks, months? We just don't know, but in the meantime one side suffers because of this even if it's a good improvement to one thing. That's why you are seeing people complaining and also showing a false narrative of people saying they are survivor sided.
As a killer main with almost 5k hours I just disagree with you. The only ones dividing the community are people like you making these posts. You are the one pushing this narrative. Thank God they finally changed moris. Frankly the majority of streamers and fog whisperers do nothing but ######### and complain. I wouldn't actually listen to them.
I waited four years for them to change moris, I can wait a little longer for keys. It's not a big deal.
it does seem completely logical to put that change into place as quickly as possible rather than wait until the key change was ready to be released.
The change was added to a hotfix for a patch that was so broken that the developer's have publicly acknowledged that fact:
It seems very unlikely that a developer would prioritize moris over the numerous issues that were introduced in patch 4.4.0. Instead what most likely happened is that this change has been ready for a while, but it was held back due to the outrage it would cause. As there were / are a large number of complaints about the 4.4.0 patch the change was pushed in so it can be included in this "period" of outrage. If it had been released before or after then there would be two "periods" of outrage - one for the moris, and one for the patch. By bundling the mori change with the 4.4.0 patch you can reduce the number of "outrage periods" from two to one.
So no, I don't believe this change was added for game health reasons, at least not solely, but rather because that way another outrage on the forums can be prevented in the future or was prevented in the past.
Premise: I'm happy Mori are substantially gone, I would have preferred the "hook every survivor at least once before you can use the mori", but this one is fine as well. Mori were objectively unhealthy.
To me the negative feedback you are receiving is absolutely obvious: if you don't want to seem biased, you give and take at the same time.
For example, you talk about "toolbox changes", but you forget to say that before that, Ruin got nerfed to the ground. At the time you (BHVR) said that the change for toolboxes/gen speed couldn't come at the same time because you needed data. Now it's because it takes more time to change key.
But Mori are in the game since when? 2 years? 3 years? The very beginning? And now they become something that needs to change without further delay? You understand that this obviously doesn't make sense.
Again, I really don't care if Mori are gone before keys, what I do care about is this constant "we know better" narrative that transpires from BHVR.
"Mori needed to change ASAP" just won't stand in any debate, because even if true, you decided to not change them for years - you could have waited the time to release the key change concomitantly, and avoid the backlash.
As it hasn't come out in over the three years since the first mori, we probably have another 3 years. Animations take time after all. (Even though they got out new animations for the generators and graphics overall on maps recently). Just be patient. *wink wink nudge nudge*