Vetrathene
Vetrathene
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888826#Comment_1888826
You could not make a lot of distance while dribbling, though, so the survivor needed to be really close to the hook anyway to do that. It also wasted a massive amount of time for the killer over the match if they wanted to commit to it.
Before, running Enduring to counter DS stuns might have been smart because you basically were going to eat them regardless. Now, you don't need Enduring and you still eat fewer DS stuns.
Not every balance change is made because "survivors complained", and phrasing it that way just minimizes player feedback by portraying it as something unreasonable. Are we also phrasing DS's nerfs as "the devs nerfed DS because killers complained, then killers complained again and so they nerfed DS again, and then killers complained a third time so they nerfed DS a third time"? Of course not, and we also shouldn't.
Having to dribble a survivor to the hook was no fun for either side and was a hilariously dumb thing to have to do just to avoid a perk that you didn't even know for sure was in play. Of course they were going to discourage dribbling and also nerf the perk.
I actually get stunned more these days I think. Thanks to the long duration on any possible unhooked survivors, you can end up getting DSed by a health survivor who is working on a gen.Before it was only guaranteed on one survivor and you knew who that was, the Obsession. It was a still a frustrating perk after the first nerf, but it was at least manegable and you could actually play around it. Now with the new DS, Unbreakable and SWF, there is no realy counter play with a combination of two perks.
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No. Nerf DS and I will be happy to nerf NOED.
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@Almo said:
It can't be much shorter than about 15 sec, or Madness 3 would be really unfair. If you're in M3, you must Snap Out Of It before you can mend.
Yes that's intentional, and yes we plan to keep that.
It seems like running though is such a counterless play. The survivor dosen't have to do anything out of the oridinary to keep deep wounds up, and aside from the doctor, it dosen't really seem to have much affect on the game. 12-8 seconds is and isn't a huge time, and really only is if its spread over multiple survivors, generally at least 3. I just don't understand why you can't allow some builds to take advantage of Deep wounds?
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1887444#Comment_1887444
Then why did they nerf almost all of what survivors had for the past 4 years. They nerfed exhaustion, god loops, insta heals,BNP, old DS balanced land and BT. Also did I mention they nerfed DS 5 times what is it going to take to get it through these thick skulls there not survivor biased they literally announced there changing DS
BT got nerfed yes, and then got buffed. And the logic was...welll "It was a chance to nerf legion and buff BT." Which isn't really logic. And yes, may things for survivors have been nerfed. Its not that they don't do things for killers. Though honestly I feel the new DS is worse then the 2nd iteration of DS for a variety of reasons. But coming back to why they are survivor sided. It took ages to get a true change to DS, and it was more powerful. Survivors had vacuum pallets, and those where buffed to sup[er vacuum pallets, and took forever to finally get rid of. Infinites where quashed relativaly quickly, but then survivor hitboxes where shrunk which created the problem of looping. Then there are things like Mori's getting nerfed twice while keys are still untouched. Hatch standoff was around for nearly 3 years before a fix. Undying was nerfed after 3 months, and the best we get on DS+Unbreakable is "It's being talked about." Freddy came out and was bad, and then got nerfed. It took over a year to get a rework for him. There are just so many of these stories that say to me they are survivor sided. Again, not survivor only minded, they just lean that way when they are looking to change things most often.
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Its because the devs listen to really bad survivors who refuse to get good at the game, and then its abused by the actually good players to make the killer hate their life.
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It's because survivors need thier 60 seconds of invincibilty, because they have been coddled for so long they refuse to 'git gud', but demand that killers just need to get better at the game and deal with the BS.
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Only after they finish nerfing anything threatining killers have. Then we might get a minor nerf to DS.
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DS isn't anti tunnel, its 60 seconds of immunity, while allowing you to still work on gens, get healed, or even hide in a locker.
@UncleStabby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888074#Comment_1888074
I have faced the DS/unbreakable combo many times, never once has it cost me the match. It sounds to me like you're just a salty player.
Sure it hasn't.
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@leviivel said:
i know, DS can be a bull crap perk, there is no disagreement in that, but when I enter discussions and see 3 nerf DS posts, its just baffling that so many people are still complaining about DS.
some people feel like their own “nerf DS” post is special and different then other’s, when it’s the same crap from each and every day. Just please throw the nerf DS posts in suggestions, I’d like to have actual discussion’s instead of same old “nerf DS”.
now, I do want a DS change/nerf, but I’m not going to act like it’s the end of the world, extremely frustrating yes, But I’m not going to make an essay rant that is completely copy and pasted from the other same post’s. (And yes I am aware that I am ranting about rant’s.)
Its like there is a legitimate, frustrating problem that people want changed and the people who can change it refuse to do anything about it. But don't worry, Undying got nerfed because it "promoted unhealthy play"...
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@Boss said:
Enduring's minor buff to stun recovery & the removal of Perk stun recovery.
Yes, please bring back old enduring
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884741#Comment_1884741
Ok I think I can accept what your suggesting.
So if something like this was implemented how would it work? 1 person can only use DS out of 4 and the other survivors (if they have it) have to play with only 3 perks? Dose this only work with DS and Unbreakable or with other second chance perks?
More if all of them where running DS, each of them could use it. But they couldn't use it with unbreakable, or soulguard, or Deliveriance, and things similar to it. Like exhaustion works with Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, and so on. But only once per match instead of every 40/50/60 seconds. So that each survivor per team gets one second chance.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884708#Comment_1884708
I can agree with what you want, and I would like for there to be more of an emphasis on team.
Ideally 4 survivor should equal 1 killer. But you can't always rely on your teammates right? And so for the cases in which you can't really on teammates shouldn't there be some things to help yourself? This is a genuine question.
Yes, which is why I think one second chance per survivor is perfect for that. It allows for a survivor to get away even if thier teammates are not they best or they are having a rough time. But it dosen't allow for multiple free escapes, broken combos and SWF abuse (as much).
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884693#Comment_1884693
No definitely not, I don't want killers to play a certain way, killers should play the way they want. I'm sorry if it comes off as this.
But ultimately what im concerned with is balancing. I know how overpowered survivors and their perks are but I don't want to shift the balance of power completely to the other side.
But I do want to shift some of that balance over to the killer. I want them to be strong and have to make teams work, and for it to be less stressful. I don't want them to be unstoppable murder machines...but I would like them to be closer to that and not feel like they can be bullied. And I feel like one second chance perk per survivor is still plenty of power, without allowing ridiculous builds like DS+Unbreakable+Soulguard+Exhuastion.
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Take Lithe, Dance with Me, and Quick and Quiet. Hop over a window and run away, the spirit will have no idea where you are.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884630#Comment_1884630
This is a genuine question.
But isn't doing that still giving pressure to the killer, and adding on to thier snowball effect?
Getting hit, to a point yes. Getting someone up seems like its taking pressure away from the killer, even if your not on a gen because of it. And the problem I feel with your question is that it makes it seems like the killer should just not get pressure from someone unhooking near them at all. I may be misreading that. Like, are you wanting the killer to play in a certain way?
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I mean if they are that would be great. The problem is a lot of the new maps are too bright and honestly not as scary and creepy as the old maps. They may have cleaner graphics but the actual art style is not as good in my opinion.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884501#Comment_1884501
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884504#Comment_1884504
Actually the reference to exhaustion was not on the original post as far as I am aware, it's completely possible that OP edited it to adjust the suggestion.
It actually was, my edit was to fix some spelling and then a second edit to add the Addendum.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/220047/will-we-have-a-ds-nerf-someday
You mean like these?.. How many times are you guys going to cry for a nerf? Simple solution is "Don't tunnel". DS/Unbreakable isn't even overpowered; it means you tunneled and had 1 player out of the game for 40+ seconds. They still have to recover, they have to heal, they aren't doing gens.
I love when I 'tunnel' a survivor who as at full health, on a gen, that I down, pick them up, and still have DS. What a filthy tunneler am I.
Also that last one is a full on buff.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884496#Comment_1884496
I can agree these perks are gamebreaking, but you have to understand why theses perks were made in the first place. Sure slugging and tunneling are strategies but strategies that have no counter is overpowered. These perks were made to counter these strategies to give both side a fair chance if the killer decides to use these strategies. The devs have overdid it with the counters to the strategies. But ultimately this is why I say that second chance perks can make the game fair.
To your point about camping, I think the real strategy thats the best is proxy camping. And I find perks like borrowed time a counter to those strategy.
The counter is actually work as a team. If the killer slugs, someone else gets that person up. If they are tunneling, take a hit for the teammate getting tunneled. Its the power of survivors is being a TEAM. Perks that allow them to solo deal with a killer are over powered.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1883014#Comment_1883014
Would you say the same thing about killer second chance perks as well?
I would, if I knew or any? I guess NoED? I’m fine with that being nerfed in exchanged or Changed to not be a second chance
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@dspaceman20 said:
I have a few questions and concerns.
If this were to happen wouldn't there need to be a compromise with the killers to minimize the amount of tunneling, slugging and camping they do? I mean thats the reason why Survivors take second chance perks right, as a way to handle these strategies better?
Also I have to ask, when is a second chance perk justified, and when is it ok to use a second chance perk? When is it that using them makes the game fair?
Honestly I would say they are not fair at all personally. But I find once per match per survivor at least somewhat acceptable.
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They probably turned it on by accident, or changed some value somewhere in the code that was somehow tied to matchmaking values. Or you know, they are just cramming whoever they can into matches because there are not enough killers.
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@indieeden7 said:
So completely remove potentially 3 perks from a survivors loadout? If this was made then I would personally also expect one that only allows killers to use 1 slowdown perk.
I would say slowdown perks are not in the same ball park personally, but I see where you are coming from. My argument is they don't work great together already. Theres also the fact aside from corrupt intervention, work has to be put into slowdown perks to get them to work. Thantaphobia requires you to wound survivors. PGTW requires you to hook a survivor and then kick a gen. Ruin requires you to put pressure on gens and can be destroyed and removed from the game. And outside of those there really isn't anything else. While DS, BT, Unbreakable and Soul Guard require little to no work to activate, and can be used multiple times per game. One of the few that require actual work is Deliveriance, and to an even greater degree Second Wind. (Which means I likely need to think of another name for that debuff I realize.)
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@BioX said:
you cant compare it like that
Sure you can.
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@Yords said:
Think about it, how would you balance keys yourself in a way that is strong, but not too strong? I would be willing to bet that the idea you think of is not great.
A popular idea that I hear quite a bit is that we should allow it to only let one person escape per key and have a 3-second animation of opening the hatch. The problem with this idea is that it would still be incredibly powerful as all survivors would just run a key knowing they could easily escape.
I myself don't know any other rework ideas for the keys, but you get the point. The keys are very complex when you stop and think about it. Moris on the other hand were much more unbalanced and much stronger. Keys at least require the survivors to do generators.
The mori change was good for the game itself. Most killers who ran it only used it against survivors holding a key which created very unfun and unhealthy gameplay. Being tunneled off of the first hook only to be moried is worse because it can happen so much faster.
Was it the best change? Probably not. But it is a good change. If you are complaining about the change, you are probably a killer who relied on moris to kill survivor teams using keys.
And yet the mori idea was not that great. Infact it was so simple and lazy its impressive in just how little effort they put into the thought. The simple and lazy solution for keys then is to make them close the hatch after a survivor goes through them. Pink keys will allow the hatch to be opened again with another key. But purple keys permanently close the hatch for the rest of the trial and cannot be reopened.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1880461#Comment_1880461
You’re part of the killers are victims cult aren’t you?
Sure, why not?
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No no, they shadownerf things that make killers stronger. Don't worry, they will let thier precious survivors know when they are about to nerf DS+Unbreakable (If it ever actually happens).
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@[Deleted User] said:
Played yesterday against a rank 3 Freddy with double slowdown addons, Thanatophobia, Dying Light, BBQ and Pop and we got 3 out (last one got facecamped when the gate was open), so yeah. It's very hard though.
Its like hes a strong killer like all of them should be. The survivors should be the ones having a tough time escaping. Horror movies are usually down to one...maybe 2 survivors? And it is a struggle the whole time.
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I just go chill in my killer basement and do some light reading while I wait for them to leave, its honestly quite relaxing. And if they want to waste time just sitting there, works for me.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
Getting a 4k should mean something.
Getting an escape should mean something too.
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They do favor survivors. Eventually its going to get so bad there won't be enough killers, and like before they will finally give killers a buff...and then go back to business as usual once they get enough killers playing the game again. Its a vicious cycle they go through and is usually on the survivors side of things.
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@Axx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1878634#Comment_1878634
Current DS is WAY better than the last version. Before on killer, we could dribble the obsession to a hook. Also, only the obsession got the instant skillcheck. Everyone else had to wiggle to 35%.
Actually no, the new DS is a buff. The first original DS was worse, yes, because it was on all four survivors and would go off on being downed, and could be saved. But then they changed it so really only one person per team was likely to get a DS, and you could at least juggle that survivor and get them too a hook if you where lucky, so some counterplay. The new one is sixty seconds of near immunity, and is only mitigated by slugging. Which isn't much honestly. And if they have unbreakable its complete invincibility. It lasts for 60 seconds, which is a long time, and you can work on gens, heal, and hop in lockers. Its just a perk thats too powerful and promotes bad play instead of rewarding good play.
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I think its not in a great spot in the moment. The devs keep nerfing killers far faster then survivors. When they buff them they are minor and don't do a lot. DS+Unbreakable is a huge issue they refuse to address, but ruin+undying is a "problem." They keep updating the maps and just adding more breakable walls, but not taking away pallets, which makes it worse for killer. SWF is still a problem. Killer reworks are turning into a joke as it ends up invalidating many addons, removing play styles, and not making the killer any stronger. Moris get nerfed with no fanfare but no real word on keys besides "they need to work on animations." And if the quality of animations we are seeing from the PTB are any indication, its going to be bad. Survivor queue times are through the roof because there are too many survivors and not enough killers. And instead of trying to fix that, they are trying to bandaid it with MMR. But you can't fix something like that with a different type of matchmaking.
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No it is not. It has counterplay built into the game with lockers,and has multiple perks that counter it as well. Unlike DS or Unbreakable.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1875922#Comment_1875922
Killers just want an EZ 4K every game. Playing killer is the easiest it's ever been. I main Legion and Pig at rank 1 and I usually get 3-4 kills. The only problem is a SWF team that really knows how to play well. Those aren't all that common though.
And yet you say killer like you aren't one, then claim to play a rank 1 killer? I r confussed.
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@VSchmitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1876556#Comment_1876556
Oh no, we don't say that devs are blatantly favoring survs. We have - BREAKABLE WALLS - good stuff right?
You mean already thrown down pallets to waste the killers time? Would be better for killer...if they replaced some pallets instead of being added on top of them.
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I'm a killer main. I play survivor too, but not as much, it takes forever to get a game; and when I do its usually boring. Either because its too easy to escape, or more rarely, everyone dies immediately.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
The player(s) that have good mechanics and better decision making are the power role. The games are called a trial for a reason.
Sorry OP. It’s not auto win for killer just for existing. You have to play the game and play well.
Knowing how to play agains DS? You mean unable to do anything to counter it? Only mitigate it? Which is ruined if they have Unbreakable and its complete invincibility then?
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Yep, I was playing killer last night and I ended up against a group of poor rank twenty survivors againt my rank four butt. And they waited for that game for quite some time I would guess. It just shows they shove whatever survivors they have into whatever few killers are available at the time because so few people want to play killer because they keep getting gutted. Maps keep getting reworked in favors of survivor. DS+Unbreakable still a problem while Undying gets gutted. Thier bias is showing, thier lack of understanding of the game is showing, and the fact they only work when they want is showing. Its getting ######### awful.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1876495#Comment_1876495
I will admit in a situation like that you are pretty screwed. However, it is not exactly carrying that killer. Being "carried" by something is winning only because of it. A good killer who protects their totems and scares survivors off of gens gets value out of their perks but is not being "carried". If they were carried, this means that they played very poorly and the only reason they won was because of [perk], like NOED.
Or Ds and Unbreakable. People get carried by those alot.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
Well, put it this way. 1 killer = 4 survivors. Which side do you think has more voices to shout louder?
The majority is not how you balance the game though. The only reason they can continue to get away with this behavior is because they have been unchallanged in this genre (at least in any meaningful way), so they can continue to do whatever they want because there is nothing better.
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Yep, they do. Which is an ass backwards approach to how to balance a competitive game. Every other competitive game out there balances around the top 5% of players. This one balances around the lowest 1%. Its just. SO. Bad.
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@eff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1867332#Comment_1867332
Dude, calm down with your accusations of killer mains lol, it's just a joke.
Why so Serious?
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@Bard said:
DS has existed for four years.
It has recieved two reworks in this time, and has been completely overpowered for almost that entire time (with one window of it being almost balanced immediately after its second rework, before they buffed it into absurdity again).
To this day, no sign of nerfs in sight.
Hex: Undying has existed for three months.
- It does nothing on its own, requiring you to dedicate half or more of your build to hex perks to get value out of it.
- While it is very powerful at its peak (when survivors need to cleanse all the totems), there's a 50% chance it gets found first, causing the perk to be basically worthless.
Like lightning (by the standard these devs set for the pace of balance changes) the devs immediately take a shotgun to the perk's knees.
- The ability for the perk to respawn hexes a few times? GONE. What was previously the "bad luck" worst case scenario is now the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY the perk can play out. I could see limiting the number of respawns so it couldn't literally force survivors to cleanse every totem, but come the ######### on.
- The ability to defend your hexes with aura reading? GONE. Now you can only use it for random tracking at dull totems, which might be useful, but is so random and unreliable that there's no reason you should run the perk just for that.
Survivors can have multiple S+ tier perks for years and they won't lift a finger.
Killers have one perk that edges into S tier for three months and they pounce on it like rabid dogs on the corpse of a rotting possum.
CLASSIC.
Yep, sounds about right for the devs. Nerf things quickly if it upsets survivors. If it upsets killers, we might eventually get around to it when we feel like it.
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Don't tell me what to do! I do what a I want! Your not my real parental unit!
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@Dwigtht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/218450/devs-are-u-even-listening
In my opinion, the main thing which makes the people play this game is your anger and hatred. On lower ranks, I remember I played a lot because I just hated killers as the survivors and survivors as a killer.
I've got used to all that ######### and learned how to counter that. Now I am not playing this game that match :(
- DS -- counter with slug
- DS + Unbreakable -- counter with slug, wait for unbreakable and then slug again
- Undying nerf is needed. Ruin + Undying is not healthy and boring. I can 3K/4K with only those two perks.
- Bugs. They are fixing bugs. Some bugs are fun.
- Map offerings: Unless the survivors know the map by heart, it is very satisfying to get 4K on their map. This depends on survivor skill, if this is a tournament swf team... well not sure I can do anything here. Also, how would I play scratched mirror Myers without map offering? Or drifting Billy?
- Keys I agree -- those are BS, which morally let's me just hard tunnel, slug and give them the worst gamming experience. For instance, this is very satisfying to let the last surv with the key to bleed in the dying for the last 4 minutes. Then I pick up and hook it. If it DCs -- this is even better, cuz I know it will lose the key and the points. If one brings the key -- all team needs to be punished equally.
Those aren't counters. Some of them are only mitigation. Most of them aren't even that.
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Its always fun to hunt someone down, hook them, run into the person you thought got unhooked hours go, down them or grab them off a gen, and then get DSed after they where at full health
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I've seen this exact same thread 7 times today and like, damn, can we get more creative? Please?
no. Obviously people are upset about this and want to complain. Complaining leads to change if enough people do it.
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@Exerlin said:
IT'S ABOUT TIME, IM SUPER HAPPY
This needed to happen when it was first released. Like they fixed urban evasion...then made this perk after without learning lessons from it? But glad it finally got changed either way.
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Don't worry though, unskilled survivors will still be carried by DS+Unbreakable. Fair and balanced, with no bias towards one side at all.