Yeah, I love the change! Perks like that should be allowed to work all of the time since the effect isn't that strong to begin with. It's also in line with Urban Evasion now, so it makes a lot of sense for consistency.
Off topic, but it does make me wish that Technician had gotten this same simplification - I love the consistent explosion prevention, but why add the penalty? If it's a relatively weak effect to begin with, you may as well simplify the perk and remove downsides from it!
Edit: Same for Visionary!
Because bad players won't get punished for their mistakes, technician is a perk for beginners.
It takes away the explosion at the cost of extra regression, that's a fair trade imo
You're already punished by 10% instant regression, though. I'm just saying there's no need to make it 13% instant regression; removing the loud noise notification really isn't strong enough to justify any sort of downside.
Let's imagine you remove the penalty. It would be almost entirely useless for players who have any amount of experience. And, for beginners, if a player is getting any mileage out of this perk, that means they're missing a ton of skill checks, and that's already extremely punishing to them and their team.
Compare it to Unrelenting. Imagine if we gave Unrelenting a movement speed debuff if you miss a swing, or something; that's sort of what it feels like to me.
I mean yeah but it shouldn't be a crutch for worse players, it's effect isn't the strongest but it removes valuable information from the game
I also think unrelenting has that problem but a speed debuff would probably be too extreme
I don't mean to pry but wasn't Lucky break mentioned some time ago to be getting changes as well ? I really hope you guys have plans for it too.
Dead hard, Blood Echo and Lucky break were the perks that they mentioned but did not receive a change. I really wish they improve one universal killer perk for every perk they gut. : (. I want to see them buff Furtive chase such that each token reduces a killer TR globally by 4 instead only in a chase and the perk stays like STBFL even after Obsession dies. Fixated is super fun perk to use. I like using it to troll Spirit players.
I would buff Unrelenting to like 50% too. Perk slots should be valuable! Would you rather kick a generator and instantly remove 25% of the progress, or recover marginally faster once every five games when you miss a swing lol. For beginners that really need help with that kind of thing, I see no harm in giving them solid tools to help them out!
Especially since these perks are worthless for non-beginners, the devs really don't need to worry about over-buffing them. Might as well make them really good in their niche, Lightborn style!
Honestly red rank players might not always be missing skill checks but it does happen, especially against Doc. Removing the explosion should come with a bigger downside otherwise you're removing the killer's information at the cost of basically nothing.
Also I think unrelenting is good the way it is rn, a lot of green and under ranks whiff lunges and the reduced cool down already nullifies dead hard, 360's, and in some cases could probably remove extra loops at a failed read
As killer, would you rather a survivor run a perk that removes generator explosions with no additional penalty, or DS/UB/Adrenaline/Dead Hard? It's a niche effect that should almost never come into play for skilled players, even against Doctor. You basically need to stack Overcharge/Unnerving Presence to have a good chance at forcing a miss... Technician will do absolutely nothing for decent survivors in like 90% of their matches, and in that other 10% of matches the benefit is small. It does not need a downside.
If that doesn't work, let me ask yet this another way:
Let's imagine we buff Technician such that it removes the 10% penalty entirely. As in, no loud noise notification and no also no regression for missing a skill check. Would it be meta?
The answer, of course, is absolutely not, because survivors should seldom be blowing up generators. If you can substantially buff a perk and it's still not strong enough to get consideration for non-beginners, downsides just don't make sense on it.
I'm not saying it would be a meta perk though
What I'm saying is it should be a trade-off perk; no explosion isn't going to win you a match but it's a decent cover for your mistakes. It straight up removes a form of tracking so it makes sense the penalty would be slightly worse.
And if they removed the penalty it wouldn't be a meta perk but it would still be very strong. Literally having 0 repercussion for that sort of mistake could win games honestly. Perks shouldn't just be "get out of jail free" cards
You're already punished by 10% instant regression, though. I'm just saying there's no need to make it 13% instant regression; removing the loud noise notification really isn't strong enough to justify any sort of downside.
Let's imagine you remove the penalty. It would be almost entirely useless for players who have any amount of experience. And, for beginners, if a player is getting any mileage out of this perk, that means they're missing a ton of skill checks, and that's already extremely punishing to them and their team.
Compare it to Unrelenting. Imagine if we gave Unrelenting a movement speed debuff if you miss a swing, or something; that's sort of what it feels like to me.
What are you talking about?
It means never giving yourself away to the killer ever for flubbing a gen skill check. A core part of the core game experience
Could actually mean lucky break might see some use. Take a hit, sprint burst around a corner, then fixated + iron will + lucky break away to a hiding spot before they catch up
The meta perk hypothetical was meant to show how weak the perk is balance-wise. Downsides are typically added to perks with really strong effects in order to make them not OP. Autodidact, for example, has downsides at first as a tradeoff for the potential for two second full heals later. If the effect is weak, though, it makes no sense to add a downside. That's just nerfing a bad, niche perk for no reason. It feels like wanting to give Monstrous Shrine a downside because it can be helpful in that 1 match in 250 when someone dies in the basement a split second before they get unhooked.
Perks like Iron Will, Calm Spirit, and Quick & Quiet almost entirely counter much more useful forms of tracking and they have no downsides.
Gen explosions also almost never happen with even average players. Assuming no anti-skill check build you're literally about as likely to get Red Herringed or Pebbled at red rank than to get a noise notification from a missed repair skill check. I miss a repair skill check maybe one game in ten? Maybe? And usually when it happens it's caused by game stutters or something unexpected like Overcharge or Oppression.
I like running underused niche perks and would happily run Technician in a niche build if it had no penalty. As is, though, I'm not even sure if the lack of gen explosion is worth the 3% penalty. 3% is almost 4 seconds of repair time, and a killer usually won't be nearby to investigate the loud noise notification even if I somehow miss a skill check... Like I'm borderline better off just running nothing. The repair distance reduction is basically useless too because the gens are loud AF even without the repair noise.
TL;DR Frequent 10% penalties is plenty of punishment for noobs already, explosion or no, and this perk is useless for non-noobs. If the devs want it to have even the most niche of niche value it cannot force you to suffer a ~4 second penalty every time it works as intended. That's just crazy.
I think you're really underestimating how strong the effect could potentially be. There are a lot situations where no gen explosion would be useful and reduced repair noises would be too.
Gen explosions are much more useful information than you'd think, especially with high mobility killers. If you have no where to go while patrolling gens you'll know exactly what gen is being worked on, if you're in a chase you're looking to leave you'll know where to go next, and even if you decide not to leave the chase you'll know where to go immediately after even without bbq. No explosion would mean the killer would lose all this potential information at the cost of it just taking slightly longer to complete.
While most high rank players don't miss many skill checks it does happen, and for many reasons like lag spikes, unexpected overcharge/oppression, harder skill checks, or generally just being boosted, maybe even all of the above. All this just being ignored is obviously not going to be the meta but it's still pretty strong.
Plus, reduced repairs could mean even if the killer is trying to defend the gen by chasing near it, or patrolling the area you could get away with doing the gen without them hearing you or any potential missed skill checks.
It's a perk that does so much to cover your mistakes so it makes sense the penalty would be slightly stronger than usual.
What I'm saying is it should be a trade-off perk; no explosion isn't going to win you a match but it's a decent cover for your mistakes. It straight up removes a form of tracking so it makes sense the penalty would be slightly worse.
And if they removed the penalty it wouldn't be a meta perk but it would still be very strong. Literally having 0 repercussion for that sort of mistake could win games honestly. Perks shouldn't just be "get out of jail free" cards
Guy, don't forget this comment in June/July. You'll have fun reading it again when you get better at the game
As killer, would you rather a survivor run a perk that removes generator explosions with no additional penalty, or DS/UB/Adrenaline/Dead Hard? It's a niche effect that should almost never come into play for skilled players, even against Doctor. You basically need to stack Overcharge/Unnerving Presence to have a good chance at forcing a miss... Technician will do absolutely nothing for decent survivors in like 90% of their matches, and in that other 10% of matches the benefit is small. It does not need a downside.
If that doesn't work, let me ask yet this another way:
Let's imagine we buff Technician such that it removes the 10% penalty entirely. As in, no loud noise notification and no also no regression for missing a skill check. Would it be meta?
The answer, of course, is absolutely not, because survivors should seldom be blowing up generators. If you can substantially buff a perk and it's still not strong enough to get consideration for non-beginners, downsides just don't make sense on it.
As a Killer Main who lately has been primarily playing T1 Myers with Oppression at Rank 4... I would rather see DS and Unbreakable than that buffed version of Technician. I hate Adrenaline with a passion so that one is worse and Dead Hard is crazy dependent on how well the Survivor uses it. Oppression being half regression and half tracking is crucial for what I've been doing and losing the tracking aspect would be horrible.
So you can reply on survivor posts but ignore all the DS changes post - what the hell is going on over there at all
What do you want? Another pointless and empty "we're looking into it"? Because that's all we've gotten for the past years, and that's all we're gonna get until an announcement actually happens.
What do you want? Another pointless and empty "we're looking into it"? Because that's all we've gotten for the past years, and that's all we're gonna get until an announcement actually happens.
I want them to fix DS - simple changes , make it so it deactivates when you heal/do a gen/ go in a locker that’s literally all it needs
I want them to fix DS - simple changes , make it so it deactivates when you heal/do a gen/ go in a locker that’s literally all it needs
They can't fix tunneling, nor does any other perk deactivate for doing the objective, which would be bad game design (punishment for doing the objective)
Feel free to read my other posts on this thread if you want a more detailed argument, but suffice it to say that blocking gen explosions is an absolutely miniscule effect for non-beginners because gens should seldom get blown up in the first place. Technician would be weak and get no use without the additional penalty, but it is trash tier to the point of being borderline detrimental with the additional penalty; if the killer is occupied, or someone is running red herring, or you're trying to stick the last gen, the 4 second penalty is worse for you than preventing the explosion. When the killer is nearby and doesn't know you're there, the reverse is true. How this shakes out depends on the match, but what we can say for sure is that Technician is god awful in its current state and therefore does not need the added penalty. Even if you want to focus on gen explosions for some reason there is absolutely no reason to run it over Red Herring.
Beginners who can't even hit a skill check are the only ones getting any mileage out of this perk, and I really don't see why players that bad/new need additional punishment. ~9-10 seconds of repair time (8 instant regression + maybe a second or two while the gen is sparking and can't be repaired) is already a huge punishment.
I think you’ll find more people run Technician than you think.
BWF? (Boozing With Friends) You can bet that some of them are chucking on Technician.
Explosions can give useful information when they happen, red herrings aside, but they only rarely happen with or without Technician. Technician only does anything if you're a brand new or catastrophically bad player. If you're actually getting use out of it, it means you are gifting the killer massive amounts of free time by repeatedly missing skill checks, made even greater by the 4 seconds wasted every time Technician triggers. Only brand new players will ever run a perk with a major downsides that protects against a situation that is rare outside of rank 20 games. And, let's be honest, the players who would run this perk won't even have Feng unlocked, never mind knowing this perk exists in the first place, until they're competent enough for it to be 100% useless... It would be a trash tier perk even without the added penalty. With the penalty it's borderline detrimental.
As is, there is no reason to run Technician over Red Herring. Both counter the information from gen explosions, but Red Herring 1) doesn't require blowing up the gen to be useful, 2) can waste a lot of the killer's time, 3) protects against your teammates missing skillchecks too since it makes the loud noise notification as a whole untrustworthy, and 4) doesn't add 4 seconds of regression when you do blow up the gen.
Red herring really isn't that useful. It probably works once or twice but the survivor wastes more time trying to activate it than the killer wastes checking it.
Missing skill checks is pretty rare in red ranks but honestly it's fairly common in mid purple and below. You're really underestimating how often they happen and overestimating how much the 4 second penalty is, especially if there's multiple people on the gen.
So you can reply on survivor posts but ignore all the DS changes post - what the hell is going on over there at all
I cannot comment on anything that has yet to be announced. We decide as a team what's to be made public, and there has been no public announcement regarding DS.
I cannot comment on anything that has yet to be announced. We decide as a team what's to be made public, and there has been no public announcement regarding DS.
Can you not drop any kind of hint even a little one if you're even looking at it as you must understand the brokeness of that perk
This needed to happen when it was first released. Like they fixed urban evasion...then made this perk after without learning lessons from it? But glad it finally got changed either way.
Fixated was a top priority on the "to do" list, I'm so glad that you addressed the community's concerns. Idk if it's just me but I feel like in an alternate dimension out there, where there was a perk that released with the Michael Myers back in 2016 and has been an issue that plagued that game since and the Devs chose to ignore the feedback given to them from community members with more than 3k hours in the game and easy solutions. I'm so glad you guys aren't them :D
This needed to happen when it was first released. Like they fixed urban evasion...then made this perk after without learning lessons from it? But glad it finally got changed either way.
Yeah... Back when the PTB for the Stranger Things chapter was first released, I made a big thread about this on the feedback part of the forums. It got a lot of support then and even a couple dev replies, but I guess they thought it was fine in its release state? I was super disappointed, but I'm glad we're finally getting that fixed.
I think you’ll find more people run Technician than you think.
BWF? (Boozing With Friends) You can bet that some of them are chucking on Technician.
How would you feel if they removed the regression penalty from technician and gave it a cooldown instead like if you fail a skillcheck the Gen won’t explode. Then the perk will go on cooldown for 30/25/20 seconds
How would you feel if they removed the regression penalty from technician and gave it a cooldown instead like if you fail a skillcheck the Gen won’t explode. Then the perk will go on cooldown for 30/25/20 seconds
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Comments
Personally one of my favorite updates in this release. I've been playing with the updated Fixated in playtests for a while, and I really like it.
Fixated with Sprint Burst was always such a good combo..now it's even better.
Because bad players won't get punished for their mistakes, technician is a perk for beginners.
It takes away the explosion at the cost of extra regression, that's a fair trade imo
I don't mean to pry but wasn't Lucky break mentioned some time ago to be getting changes as well ? I really hope you guys have plans for it too.
Now let's see if they can fix the game
I always loved using this with sprint burst so I may use it more now instead of DH.
By the time you have enough BP to get Technician you arent a beginner anymore.
maybe not change undying
I mean yeah but it shouldn't be a crutch for worse players, it's effect isn't the strongest but it removes valuable information from the game
I also think unrelenting has that problem but a speed debuff would probably be too extreme
Dead hard, Blood Echo and Lucky break were the perks that they mentioned but did not receive a change. I really wish they improve one universal killer perk for every perk they gut. : (. I want to see them buff Furtive chase such that each token reduces a killer TR globally by 4 instead only in a chase and the perk stays like STBFL even after Obsession dies. Fixated is super fun perk to use. I like using it to troll Spirit players.
Honestly red rank players might not always be missing skill checks but it does happen, especially against Doc. Removing the explosion should come with a bigger downside otherwise you're removing the killer's information at the cost of basically nothing.
Also I think unrelenting is good the way it is rn, a lot of green and under ranks whiff lunges and the reduced cool down already nullifies dead hard, 360's, and in some cases could probably remove extra loops at a failed read
I'm not saying it would be a meta perk though
What I'm saying is it should be a trade-off perk; no explosion isn't going to win you a match but it's a decent cover for your mistakes. It straight up removes a form of tracking so it makes sense the penalty would be slightly worse.
And if they removed the penalty it wouldn't be a meta perk but it would still be very strong. Literally having 0 repercussion for that sort of mistake could win games honestly. Perks shouldn't just be "get out of jail free" cards
What are you talking about?
It means never giving yourself away to the killer ever for flubbing a gen skill check. A core part of the core game experience
Of course there needs to be a drawback.
Could actually mean lucky break might see some use. Take a hit, sprint burst around a corner, then fixated + iron will + lucky break away to a hiding spot before they catch up
One might call the new and improved perk...
FIXated
I think you're really underestimating how strong the effect could potentially be. There are a lot situations where no gen explosion would be useful and reduced repair noises would be too.
Gen explosions are much more useful information than you'd think, especially with high mobility killers. If you have no where to go while patrolling gens you'll know exactly what gen is being worked on, if you're in a chase you're looking to leave you'll know where to go next, and even if you decide not to leave the chase you'll know where to go immediately after even without bbq. No explosion would mean the killer would lose all this potential information at the cost of it just taking slightly longer to complete.
While most high rank players don't miss many skill checks it does happen, and for many reasons like lag spikes, unexpected overcharge/oppression, harder skill checks, or generally just being boosted, maybe even all of the above. All this just being ignored is obviously not going to be the meta but it's still pretty strong.
Plus, reduced repairs could mean even if the killer is trying to defend the gen by chasing near it, or patrolling the area you could get away with doing the gen without them hearing you or any potential missed skill checks.
It's a perk that does so much to cover your mistakes so it makes sense the penalty would be slightly stronger than usual.
Guy, don't forget this comment in June/July. You'll have fun reading it again when you get better at the game
See,i'm glad that they buffed this perk,but on the other hand...
Why did it take them almost 1 and half year to realize that making fixated work in the injured status wouldn't make it OP?
Especially when we had the same exact issue with urban evasion?
As a Killer Main who lately has been primarily playing T1 Myers with Oppression at Rank 4... I would rather see DS and Unbreakable than that buffed version of Technician. I hate Adrenaline with a passion so that one is worse and Dead Hard is crazy dependent on how well the Survivor uses it. Oppression being half regression and half tracking is crucial for what I've been doing and losing the tracking aspect would be horrible.
So you can reply on survivor posts but ignore all the DS changes post - what the hell is going on over there at all
What do you want? Another pointless and empty "we're looking into it"? Because that's all we've gotten for the past years, and that's all we're gonna get until an announcement actually happens.
I want them to fix DS - simple changes , make it so it deactivates when you heal/do a gen/ go in a locker that’s literally all it needs
I can't wait to use the new fixated. I loved the perk, but never used it because I remain injured in most matches. This new change is pretty awesome!
If you have a friend name Theodore you can tell him...
"They fixed Fixated, Ted!"
They can't fix tunneling, nor does any other perk deactivate for doing the objective, which would be bad game design (punishment for doing the objective)
I think you’ll find more people run Technician than you think.
BWF? (Boozing With Friends) You can bet that some of them are chucking on Technician.
I'm literally in red ranks
Red herring really isn't that useful. It probably works once or twice but the survivor wastes more time trying to activate it than the killer wastes checking it.
Missing skill checks is pretty rare in red ranks but honestly it's fairly common in mid purple and below. You're really underestimating how often they happen and overestimating how much the 4 second penalty is, especially if there's multiple people on the gen.
I cannot comment on anything that has yet to be announced. We decide as a team what's to be made public, and there has been no public announcement regarding DS.
Can you not drop any kind of hint even a little one if you're even looking at it as you must understand the brokeness of that perk
This needed to happen when it was first released. Like they fixed urban evasion...then made this perk after without learning lessons from it? But glad it finally got changed either way.
Hell yeah finally <3
I love Fixated. Finally it's getting a buff. I also hope Lucky Break gets buffed soon.
Fixated was a top priority on the "to do" list, I'm so glad that you addressed the community's concerns. Idk if it's just me but I feel like in an alternate dimension out there, where there was a perk that released with the Michael Myers back in 2016 and has been an issue that plagued that game since and the Devs chose to ignore the feedback given to them from community members with more than 3k hours in the game and easy solutions. I'm so glad you guys aren't them :D
You get a Gold Star
Yeah... Back when the PTB for the Stranger Things chapter was first released, I made a big thread about this on the feedback part of the forums. It got a lot of support then and even a couple dev replies, but I guess they thought it was fine in its release state? I was super disappointed, but I'm glad we're finally getting that fixed.
How would you feel if they removed the regression penalty from technician and gave it a cooldown instead like if you fail a skillcheck the Gen won’t explode. Then the perk will go on cooldown for 30/25/20 seconds
That’s the unfriendly to newbies.
what are they changing to fixated? i read the patch notes and it says
Fixated: Now works while healthy
is it still only works while healthy or does it now work while injured?
Works while injured.