TragicSolitude
TragicSolitude
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Tier 1 Myers with Hex: Face the Darkness, Hex: Undying, Sloppy Butcher, and whatever fourth perk you want, I used Bloodhound, and the Boyfriend's Memo add-on.
Tier 1 Myers has no terror radius, so every survivor who's not the hexed one will scream. Hit one survivor, then chase them around. Sloppy means they can't heal bit by bit mid-chase. Do not put them in the dying state, that will disable the hex. If they realize you're not going to hit them again, stand on top of them and let them heal all the way and then hit them or the person who healed them. That's all. I did that for an entire match just because I thought it was hilarious to have 3 survivors screaming every 25 seconds.
Having no terror radius is really the most important thing about the build. If you haven't unlocked Hex: Face the Darkness for other killers, then my best suggestion is using Insidious and/or Beast of Prey on Knight. Getting rid of your TR and making sure someone is always injured are the two key things.
(Edit: Tier 1 Myers is a favorite of mine just because I enjoy him being Undetectable. HugTechLover is right, though, you could also use tier 2 Myers with Monitor & Abuse plus possibly Beast of Prey to get rid of your TR.)
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Things usually quiet down as we get further from the last chapter release. They usually pick up again once the PTB comes out, then again when the new chapter is released. However, it seems that people are so uninterested in this new chapter that they're not bothering to come to the forums to discuss it.
That's actually a really bad sign. Apathy is worse than loud complaints. Complaints would show the playerbase gives a damn and thinks the chapter is salvageable.
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@KyneticFlux said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350967#Comment_3350967
I mean yes, the item's name is pretty evident of course but for some reason my friend and I never thought it wasn't meant to open the hatch, or simply missed out the very obvious idea.
Thanks a lot for explaining, since the item description never included any hint aside of the wiki fandom, I feel kind of stupid now :P shall we remove this thread?
Yeah, the game doesn't mention that the Broken Key can't open the hatch. Instead, in the descriptions of the Skeleton Key and Dull Key it states that they "can be consumed to open the Hatch." BHVR doesn't consider the fact that people expect keys to open the hatch and it should be clearly indicated when that isn't the case.
BHVR is not good at clearly expressing things. Some of their Tome challenges are notoriously poorly written.
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I don't run add-ons, so for me personally any killer that requires add-ons can't be considered good.
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It's called a broken key because it doesn't work to open the hatch. It's only useful for running key add-ons to see auras and what not.
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You're mixing up complicated with interesting. Good design is about taking different elements and combining them into a cohesive whole. Trapper and Nurse having simple designs doesn't make them bad. The Skull Merchant having a bunch of elements piecemealed onto one character doesn't make her good.
Legion is a group of edgy teens. Their design allows BHVR to sell the nostalgia that is '90s fashion. I'm not a fan of Legion, I find their lore atrocious, but Legion's aesthetic is at least easily recognizable and understandable.
You like The Skull Merchant, fine. But she's not going to resonate with a lot of people. Even BHVR seems to realize this, because a lot of this chapter is being sold on sex appeal. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion, but it's something BHVR has really shied away from until now. While they've sold some shirtless male cosmetics, they haven't sold girls in skimpy bikinis.
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The mori really doesn't make sense as it is. Being "stealthy" doesn't cover it. The mori only works if the killer is invisible when they walk up behind the survivor.
All the other things about The Skull Merchant could be "inspired by" Predator, but the mori really suggests she didn't start as an original character.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350111#Comment_3350111
Tbf it would help if they stopped nerfing them because of some 0.01% twins player was doing well while most other players weren't... like they legit nerfed a killer for the smallest group of players which is stupid.
That mixed with the extra nerfs that made them feel clunky to play is going to push alot of people off them, theres plenty of little changes they can do without a full rework to make twins more fun to play but I cant say that for the new chapter, only people at a low level or people that play for thirst will enjoy her tbh.
It's a shame, I was hyped to have a female mad scientist/cyborg then seen the base cosmetic and power, new cosmetics will be dope I'm sure but I cant get over the basically pointless power unless you can a 3gen with is boring af to do as killer especially from the get go
the basically pointless power unless you can a 3gen with is boring af to do as killer especially from the get go
Absolutely. I've seen survivors give up and beg for the hook rather than deal with a 3-gen situation. I've also seen killers give up defending a 3-gen and go AFK because they just got so damn bored with it. Both of those are bad, you don't want either side bored out of their skull in your game. And you certainly don't want to design killers that are built for pretty much that exact playstyle and not much else.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350077#Comment_3350077
My point is being in the majority does not automatically make you right. The majority of people thought Twins was terrible on PTB but then they turned out to be A tier and got nerfed several times.
You directly haven't said we're not allowed to like the chapter that's I've seen but don't pretend there haven't been dozens of posts and threads calling for the chapter to be delayed or just not come out at all. Just because you can 3 gen with the killer doesn't mean that's the only thing you can do with her, every killer can 3 gen so that doesn't say much. Like everything you said can be applied to Artist for example when you can drop a crow and make them hold W and you can then crows and gens and force a 3 gen does that make Artist and SM the same killer?
But more to the point you can be very very aggressive with SM's power if you go to the survivors and setup where they are instead of trying to setup a 3 gen you can create a ton of pressure and between chasing and keeping drones up you're always doing something. Watch OnePumpWillie on Twitch or Bazazell on YouTube and you can see the potential of the killer, that right there shows there is a ton of things to learn about the killer that isn't obvious. There's a difference between a killer being not requiring skill and having and requiring skills you're not interested in learning.
BHVR is a business. They want to release something the majority of people like so they make money. It doesn't matter how strong The Twins are, I've hardly seen them at all from day one of their release. They're not popular to play as, which means BHVR probably hasn't made a lot of money off of them between both buying the chapter and cosmetics. Notice how few cosmetics The Twins have ever gotten.
The "earth is flat" analogy doesn't apply here. If the majority of people believed the earth is flat, and a company was trying to sell a product that shows a picture of the earth, they'd show a picture of a flat earth to sell more product. This isn't really about the majority being right or wrong, it's about the majority being the ones determining BHVR's profits.
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On the survivor side you have solo queue, which can be the most miserable damn experience in any game ever. The HUD is lovely but it hasn't necessarily improved matches. The HUD lets me know that while I've been chased for the last few minutes not a single one of my three teammates has touched a gen and so I've wasted my time in this match and this chase and landed myself a guaranteed de-pip because somehow stealthing around the outskirts of the map is still a thing.
There is nothing killers endure that is as bad as solo queue. I infinitely prefer playing killer to playing in solo queue. For the most part, pallet stuns and blinds are avoidable: you can't avoid a pallet stun if you're casually strolling around and have no idea the pallet or survivor is there, but even then it's not like you actually got bonked on the head in real life, you just had a mini heart attack and you'll be fine in a few minutes.
Looking beyond solo queue, a lot of survivor gameplay isn't really fun. Doing generators isn't fun. Very few people start up any game in the hopes of holding down a button for 90 seconds, then walking a little bit to hold down a button for 90 seconds again, etc. But if you don't sit your butt on a gen then you'll suffer in emblem points and BP, and if you get interrupted on the gen it's frustrating because that means more time sitting holding down a button and goddamn, never mind, I'm not doing this gen again, put me on the hook and I'm out, thanks.
Healing is also holding down a button. Mending, too. Bones feel a little more interesting because you have to hunt for them, but it's still just holding down a button while you crouch in one spot for a bit. Then when you're on the hook you're just stuck in one spot unable to participate, woo, what fun.
Killers do need a hook counter that shows the hook states of each survivor. That should've been added to the HUD instead of the ridiculous circle that fills up. The lack of info annoys me, but it's the survivors who accidentally die in my matches who actually feel the brunt of BHVR's poor choice.
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I have enough problems fighting the wiggle on console. If the survivors mess with the hooks or bring Boil Over, they should expect to bleed out. They don't want to be hooked, I'm not hooking them. I'm bored by it, but I have to assume it's what they want, so at least someone's enjoying themselves.
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Her mori is so goddamn boring.
Also, as I've pointed out elsewhere: I don't understand how the Skull Merchant is supposed to track or even see survivors within an active drone area. The amount of visual noise from the laser light show is ridiculous. Beyond not being able to see within the drone area, something about the brightness and color of all those lights aggravates my eyes
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I don't understand how the Skull Merchant is supposed to track or even see survivors within an active drone area. The amount of visual noise from the laser light show is ridiculous.
If I end up with her, I'll probably just walk around the map looking hot and let survivors poke at her. Beyond not being able to see within the drone area, all those bright lights hurt my eyes. At least she's normal speed; I can't use Trickster as a pure M1 killer because of his slow walk.
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The PTB only lasts like a week or less. Pitting a killer against SWFs is part of the testing process. If the killer does poorly against SWF groups but stomps solo survivors, then that's a potential problem with the killer's design.
In terms of getting run around by a single survivor for 5 gens, this killer doesn't really have anything to help her with chases. She's designed to surveil an area and hold a 3-gen.
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As much as I want something like this, it might not make any difference. I've had multiple matches recently where I was playing survivor and there were one or two other survivors with AFK crows. The killer ignored them because they weren't a threat. One of those matches caused me to turn the game off last night, I didn't enjoy being tunneled out when there were two survivors with crows. One pip away from the next grade, so of course I got a miserable match and a de-pip. It's those kinds of matches that cause me to stop playing DbD for weeks.
The game itself has to do something to punish idle players. Killers have no incentive to target players who aren't participating.
Edit: That was a bit of griping there, sorry. I've seen a lot of nonparticipatory survivors lately. A lot. I don't know why it's gotten so common, you think they'd feel some sort of shame given the HUD info.
I should add that as killer I really want to see something implemented so that survivors can't stealth around the map and avoid getting crows to hold the game hostage.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330965#Comment_3330965
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330695#Comment_3330695
Wait, you're not supposed to? Then what the ######### do you game on?
You're supposed to use a wired connection when gaming. Both of my consoles are hardwired to the modem.
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I wouldn't say it's a "huge" issue, but it does use negative psychological manipulation to get people to make purchases now rather than later, even if it'd be better financially for the person to wait. Most things use psychological manipulation of some sort, like gamification and dopamine, but the difference between feeling good by doing something vs feeling bad if you don't do something is what makes me say FOMO is an unhealthy, unwanted, anti-consumer tactic.
(Physical products are different from digital products. Digital products have no overhead, don't take up shelf space, don't require materials to make each item, don't expire, etc. Digital items can be sold year round forever and ever: it costs the company nothing to do so, it gives the customer more options, and it doesn't prey on creating negative feelings in their loyal, paying playerbase.)
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There isn't even a HUD icon to show other survivors that a teammate is Incapacitated, which has led to a lot of griefing in matches because survivors get pissy you're just standing around a gen and 'refusing' to heal them, then you spend the rest of the match getting sandbagged.
It's a terrible status effect on Eruption in general, though. I'm just extra annoyed at the problems it causes in solo queue.
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I have experienced this, too. The frame drops are much worse and more frequent than they were before the patch.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330148#Comment_3330148
That wouldn't happen to have been a Dredge on Dead Dawg Saloon, would it?
Sorry, no, it was a Myers on Thompson House.
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Yes, I love the archive HUD. It was sooo helpful with doing the Knight challenge. Without it, I wouldn't have realized that when the guard hit the survivor a millisecond before I did that it caused my hit not to count for the challenge. Plus, it's great to know how much distance I've carried survivors or how much time I've spent in chase, things I couldn't possibly know on my own. It also means I don't kick gens twenty more times than is necessary because I forgot to keep track.
I would love to have this for Daily Rituals as well. Demo's ritual in particular drives me nuts because so often it does not count Shreds that I could swear were fully charged.
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@LordSturm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329716#Comment_3329716
I haven't experienced this in my survivor matches. Mostly I just see that I'm the only person working on gens, which if I then become the only person taking aggro and still no one is touching gens then I know to just get myself hooked and move on to a new match.
I mean... Technically that means you're playing way more efficiently, if you think about it 😋
haha you're not wrong. I've felt that I'm getting more value for my time spent in matches the past few days, but I'm sure that's also because of the extra BP from the event. We'll see if it still feels better in a couple weeks.
On a related note, the new icons are nice, but we're missing one icon for sure: a crow icon. When I pull some AFKer out of a locker, their teammates deserve to know it's because there were three birds cawing at me. (It would help survivors for real, too: that teammate who's not on a gen isn't going for the save, they're AFK. I had this get me and my friend killed just yesterday in a match and I could tell the killer was pissed at the AFKer and the guy who let us die on our first hooks.)
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De-pipping should be removed altogether for both killers and survivors. The devs have said repeatedly that grades are an indicator of time played during that month. Your time played can't go backwards. Grades are not ranks, they're not used for matchmaking. You can't gain a pip unless you participate in the match. Losing pips just makes bad matches so much more miserable, like the match itself wasn't miserable enough on its own.
Pipping up is something that players should feel encouraged to do, but after a couple months of going to the trouble to reach iri I said "screw this." It's not fun, and it's not rewarding enough to be worth the absolute frustration of it. De-pipping has actually de-incentivized me from playing at all sometimes because I'll be one pip away from the next grade and so two weeks later I'll still have not touched the game because the apprehension of losing pips outweighs the fun factor of DbD. Even though I try to ignore pips as much as possible now, they can still cause me to stop playing DbD for long stretches because I'd rather be one pip away from the next grade but not reach it than risk losing all the pips. It's a weird psychological thing, I guess.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329844#Comment_3329844
-"my games as killer since the update haven't been appreciably harder"
From everything you said it sounds like you mostly play survivor. The only people I know who actually get sweaty games are my friends who log into DBD to play killer solo and only play SWF if with friends.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329840#Comment_3329840
MM is in need of a complete rework. So if you want to talk rework not compensation for ruining the stealth mechanic - sure.
- His power needs to work like Oni where the meter fills then he taps it to activate
- Either remove the T1 speed penalty of -5% or give him +5% for the rest of the game when he gets to T2.
- Since GF's stalk is one minute MM almost certainly needs to stalk faster (longer duration would just be cheese). Toward this end they could restore the "multistalk" feature that was taken away less than a week after his release. He should probably lose the "less stalking from far away" since that's what he did in the movies.
if you want to talk rework
Not really, no. BHVR will do what they're going to do. I have my own wishlist of things I want for the game, and I'll be forever sad that they won't be implemented; no reason to set myself up for more disappointment coming up with new never-gonna-happen features for my wishlist.
I was throwing quick ideas at the wall in my previous post because you asked, but the main reason I answered is I wanted to make sure you understood that I don't work on DbD myself. I could get in trouble if the mods think I'm pretending to be a developer when I'm just a player.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/362620/make-the-game-more-fair-for-survivors
Do you mean the Blue Fire on the totem because if not Killers can't see the Aura or the Dome that a Boon creates only the sound. It takes Survivors longer because Boons in a game sense Boons shouldn't exist in the Entity's world sense they bring something beneficial in.
But survivors have a easier time finding Hex totems because they can look 360° around them allowing them to spot totems over walls behind bushes etc while Killer is a first person perspective so without the tone they could easily walk by the Boon
The stupid sound occlusion had me looking in all the wrong spots for literally a couple minutes yesterday in a match. Just like you said, killers can't see the blue aura or the dome, and the sound occlusion in this game can make the audio clue more confusing than helpful for finding the damn boon.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329716#Comment_3329716
-Stealth killers are usually much less stealthy while in chase. SWF are already able to share the knowledge that a teammate is in chase with a stealth killer. Why withhold that info from solo survivors when SWF already have it? Not giving that info to solo survivors just leaves an unfair gap between solo and SWF and it makes all killers, including stealth killers, more difficult to balance.
Ok so what buff are you planning to give Stealth killers then if everyone always knows what they are doing?
None, because I don't work for BHVR. As for what BHVR might do, I have no idea. Maybe they'll finally fix Ghostface's stalk and breaking him out of stealth. Maybe they'll make it so Myers can't run out of stalk or they'll let him move faster and have a lunge while in tier 1. Maybe BHVR will let Myers and Ghostface walk faster while they stalk or do an add-on rework. I'm just as curious as you what they'll come up with to buff their killers.
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Killer bonus is 100% every time I log in.
That changes for everyone depending on MMR, time of day, and region. Queue incentives are the same as always for me, going back and forth between killer and survivor depending on time of day.
What is a stealth killer supposed to do now? The entire premise is ruined because you know Ghost Face is in a chase.
Stealth killers are stealthy outside of chase, they get the drop on survivors who are busy with gens or healing or whatever. Stealth killers are usually much less stealthy while in chase. SWF are already able to share the knowledge that a teammate is in chase with a stealth killer. Why withhold that info from solo survivors when SWF already have it? Not giving that info to solo survivors just leaves an unfair gap between solo and SWF and it makes all killers, including stealth killers, more difficult to balance.
My games are much closer and everyone is way more efficient.
I haven't experienced this in my survivor matches. Mostly I just see that I'm the only person working on gens, which if I then become the only person taking aggro and still no one is touching gens then I know to just get myself hooked and move on to a new match. My killer matches don't feel any different, either.
So, everyone is having different experiences and all any of us have to offer is anecdotal evidence. If there's an increase in survivor efficiency and escape rates, then hopefully BHVR won't drag their feet and they'll buff killers as necessary.
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I miss it. The visual design was great, and it's one of the few maps where I consistently got value out of Nemesis's zombies.
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@coldestwinter123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329037#Comment_3329037
I think the devs addressed this: a chat wheel was considered, but having to localize the text for every language is a lot more work than using universal icons in the HUD.right so a lesser worse solution is applied in order to save expenses, that somehow is a reasonable excuse? doesn't that just indicate clear mind set and how is that problematic(i 100% know they would never say that, but to take that as somehow a valid excuse is a meme)
I can't think of any changes that could be made to make a killer stronger against SWF but weaker against solo queue. However, the devs have talked about how they make design decisions that try to keep killers from being a lot stronger against solo than SWF, like giving killers map-wide audio queues so SWF don't have information about what the killer's doing (like telling each other over comms "Hey, I just saw the killer teleport, watch out!") that solo players don't.Well neither of us are getting paid to solve the problems, and neither of us do that full time. I'd imagine that me and you could come up with something if we did think about it 8 hours a day. I highly doubt if i sat down and thought about it diligently for 8 hours that i couldn't come up with a solution, now you might not want to implement it for other reasons but if this was such a core problem you for sure could.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why the devs would choose to do that, balance one side against two different groups at the same time. It seems easier to balance the two groups so it's more like one group, and then balance killers against that.Quite simple honestly, the discrepancy between not even the worst killer of the bottom maybe 8 killers and the top 3 is so massive. It might be as big as the gap between a soloq player and a SWF. the comparison of soloQ vs SWF implies that there is a massive gap and there is a gap, but that gap is 100% comparable to the worst killers vs the strongest killers. If you buff or even give any power to Survivors, it drowns out already some of the bottom end killers even more then they are now.
Because the big things SWF players have that solo players don't is access to information and the ability to coordinate. There's only so much info the devs can give survivors about the killer's actions and keep the game interesting. It's difficult to change a killer and have it not affect both solo and SWF equally, which is why solo and SWF survivors need to be closer to equal themselves.Verbal information vs showing you Accurate information is two different things. A survivor screaming vs a survivor having his aura shown are too different things. If a player is on the ground and you can see his recovery progress, that is information that a SWF could communicate to his team, VS they can LITERALLY see the progress bar. When someone says "im at 50%" that is not the same as actually seeing the bar at 50% . You still have to parse verbal information. Maybe someone is trying to communicate something else at the same time that clutters comms, and its not as easy to keep track of it . The other part of this is, Not every SWF is just sweating balls and trys to mimic a comp team. Most of my friends comms are like "oh i think he is coming, oh im gonna grief you, youre stupid" even in those cases my SWF right now is stronger. Average or even bad SWF's now are stronger and i would strongly argue that bad players in soloQ can't use the information REGARDLESS if its shown on screen or not. This mostly affect a small group of solo players that are probably at higher MMR's Red ranks or w/e. So even the characterization of "this helps SoloQ players" is wrong, it helps strong soloQ players who CAN utilize that information. So when you say "breaching the gap" you do realize this pushed more good players forward and a bunch of low level swfs forward. The lowly and opressed soloQ player who gets destroyed every game by all types of killers isn't benefiting from this. And this is not even taking in the account that people actually get MORE depressed seeing their teammates doing sub optimal sht. The premise of breaching the gap sounds great and im all aboard, but this is not it. Atleast this is not it in this sequence. Maybe 12 patches later this might play a big role in to why things have gotten better, but in the near foreseeable future this is just a straight up bad decision.
Your framing is very Survivor biased re-reading several times ur response to that claim i don't see how you disproved that in any way. Even the notion that somehow Nurse has anything in common with something like trapper or Myers is already a sign of lack of acknowledgement of the massive discrepancy between the 2 ends.Myer sucks equally against SWF and a solo Team, Trapper Sucks against solo's but suffers more against SWF's , and now even the soloQ players have more power to dunk on trapper.
Everytime someone advocates for more power for survivors its always choosing the champions of the killer side, Nurse/Blight/Spirit/Artist all lined up as pretending that this is the entire killer community. I don't particularly enjoy ANY of those killers, and to act like that is even the majority of killer mains is also laughable.
Like i said before, im not against buffing soloQ players they should get more power, the current HUD system benefits all survivor types and all the survivor subgroups. This is why the change isin't good. It could be as i stated before 10 patches down the line that it Could be that it plays a major role in the overall health of balance, as it stands today the change is ass. I even said before a chat wheel system would be more annoying and some people might not even participate, but even THAT is a better way of doing it when strictly talking about balance. Why would i give a granular fk about them saying "well we need to translate to several languages" as if that somehow makes the chatwheel a lesser option, thats on them. "killers will get something too" what is the trackrecord of this happening? there were no promises of anything for the killers. blind assumptions.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329116#Comment_3329116
It would make so much more sense to just nerf SWF.agreed. 100% . however there is an issue of how people perceive buffs vs nerfs. I think optically people wouldn't like getting penalized especially some of the lesser SWF's that aren't going as hard. Optically this would be a tough call, as a rhetorical solution this is the best one. No idea about in practice.
-"Myers Ghostface, trapper,Clown, all of these killers were Destroying the solo players and the reason they recieved no changes is because they would destroy the soloQ experience?"
Are you trying to say that Trapper was ruining the game for solo players more than Blight/Nurse? I think not.The named killers there are Killers who struggle against non SWF players. it was to show and demonstrate how there are killers already that are nowhere near being "strong enough" and haven't received any changes lately. The whole idea that soloQ players are getting rammed and is the weakest role in non sense when it comes to bottom of the barrel killers. Myers is equally garbage against swfs and solo's id imagine Ghostface is exactly the same against SWF'S and solo's same with clown. I really don't think these characters would NEED or suffer anymore against stronger opponents. they already struggle with fairly weak opponents.
All of these survivor felatio artists always talk about the 3 same killers. When in reality, most killers aren't the top end destroyers that just run over soloQ players. there are killers who just get ran on period. And these are not some recent soon to be changed killers. These are killers that been around for a minute.
If a player is on the ground and you can see his recovery progress, that is information that a SWF could communicate to his team, VS they can LITERALLY see the progress bar. When someone says "im at 50%" that is not the same as actually seeing the bar at 50% . You still have to parse verbal information. Maybe someone is trying to communicate something else at the same time that clutters comms, and its not as easy to keep track of it
I am able to see my friend's progress bars. We glance at each other's screens all the time when we play together. Glancing at his screen and seeing the bar at 50% does not feel different from hearing him say it's at 50%. Sometimes having the visual info is actually less helpful than sharing the information vocally: when one of us is being chased, looking at the other person's screen is a distraction and the vocal communication of how close the exit gate is to being open is much more helpful than me flicking my eyes for a moment to glance at his screen to see the progress bar. Hell, since the update, I've failed more than a couple skill checks because I glanced at the HUD icons to see what the other survivors were up to.
I play solo survivor more than I play in a 2-man SWF, though, and the HUD icons have been really nice in solo queue: they tell me to stop running from the killer and let myself get hooked so I can move on to a new match, because no one else has touched a gen. It's a huge time saver and I for one am really happy to know for certain when my teammates are useless rather than having to guess. In the past, I have really hated being stuck in 30+ minute games where I discovered very late that my teammates were all crouching around the edges of the map. Those were the most boring and frustrating matches and one of the big reasons I avoid playing survivor so much. The HUD icons aren't going to suddenly make me more interested in playing survivor, but so far survivor has felt less awful while I've been doing the new tome challenges because I can avoid wasting time and energy on non-participating teammates.
Anyway, I feel like we're having two different conversations. I wasn't talking about weak vs strong killers or anything like that in my previous post. I was simply talking numbers, just numbers: 30 killers with unique powers each balanced against either 2 different strengths of survivors or against one similarly matched group of survivors. If I were in charge of a project like that, I'd look at the numbers and I'd prioritize it the way I already stated. You are looking at this a different way and you prioritize it differently, and reading your response it feels like we're having two different discussions. Our viewpoints apparently clash.
My original response which you replied to wasn't anything more than trying to clarify what the developer stated in his post because OP didn't seem to have a clear understanding. (If I was wrong about that, then I apologize to the OP, but to me it seemed like the OP was saying things that didn't line up with what the developer said and arguing for things that the roadmap said are already coming.)
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@coldestwinter123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328772#Comment_3328772
You make it sound like the devs are only bridging the gap between solo and SWF and stopping there. What Peanits said about bridging the gap is "it gives us a much tighter range to balance around," which means the balance part comes after bridging the gap; bridging the gap is not itself the balance.Just as a quick exmaple. Myers Ghostface, trapper,Clown, all of these killers were Destroying the solo players and the reason they recieved no changes is because they would destroy the soloQ experience? Is the track record of these killers fairly grim in the games lifespan? They don't receive significant buffs because the gap between soloq and swf is too large? Massive cap. Not to mention you could have used a chat wheel for people to use to pre determined lines that you can signal to your teammates. That would ONLY improve the experience of SoloQ players and not players across the board. Even their implementation is questionable and arguable.(if i was a survivor i would prefer a HUD display over chathweel for convenience. But in terms of strict balancing a chat wheel is more healthy)
Killers can't be balanced around two different strengths of opponents.just to not be cantankerous and argue for sake of arguing i can grant this, even tho this is not as set in stone as you representing it to be.
Solo survivors and SWF will always be two different strengths, but the gap has historically been so large between the two that it's been impossible to properly balance killers.Cap. The gap between swf and soloq play has nothing to do with how killers have been handled to this day. This statement is a non squitter. The gap historically has been large therfor impossible to properly balance killers? Killers have both been too strong or too weak regardless of the state of soloQ vs SWF. There is no changes that have been made to killers to Strictly make them stronger against SWF and weaker against soloq players. Changes made to killers largely affect both soloq and swf players equally.
The smaller the gap between solo and SWF, the better the game can be balanced.true.
If you want killers to be able to be made stronger, first they need a more stable strength of opponent to be balanced against.As an entire thing i would agree. but you can breach that gap with out buffing Swf's and strong players already.
i re-wrote several times and deleted harry potter book levels of text to trim down the criticism to not be as adversarial as i want to be. But do you not really acknowledge that there is a slew of killers that are just straight up bad against SWF's and soloQ? How have these killers limped through the existence of this game and have not gotten the appropriate changes?
Is there really no acknowledgement of the problem that this DOESN'T JUST HELP SOLOQ PLAYERS BUT SURVIVORS IN GENERAL?
is powercreep not a real concern in anyones eyes? (trapper legit on his design can't compete and requires a full rework just to get him in a decent state)
the OP that you criticize i dont even fully agree with him, but your way of criticizing him is loaded and one sided framed. first they "need a more stable strength of opponent to be balanced against." really? why not start at the killer why start from the survivors? maybe balance the killers first and then go with survivors. this is what im talking about . You favor survivors sooo hard and load and frame sentences from strictly survivors perspective and favor. That it just really sounds like biased non sense.
The hud is here to stay, and i dont think they should remove it or try to screw with it. It did make the soloQ player stronger, it also made every other survivor stronger. It didn't make bad players better, it made good players even stronger. I personally think there are bunch of killers that need nerfs, but there are a bunch of bottom of the barrel killers that really deserves love that they haven't gotten for years. The gap indeed needs to be shrunk, but this was a bad way to do it .
Not to mention you could have used a chat wheel for people to use to pre determined lines that you can signal to your teammates.
I think the devs addressed this: a chat wheel was considered, but having to localize the text for every language is a lot more work than using universal icons in the HUD.
There is no changes that have been made to killers to Strictly make them stronger against SWF and weaker against soloq players.
I can't think of any changes that could be made to make a killer stronger against SWF but weaker against solo queue. However, the devs have talked about how they make design decisions that try to keep killers from being a lot stronger against solo than SWF, like giving killers map-wide audio queues so SWF don't have information about what the killer's doing (like telling each other over comms "Hey, I just saw the killer teleport, watch out!") that solo players don't.
Changes made to killers largely affect both soloq and swf players equally.
Because the big things SWF players have that solo players don't is access to information and the ability to coordinate. There's only so much info the devs can give survivors about the killer's actions and keep the game interesting. It's difficult to change a killer and have it not affect both solo and SWF equally, which is why solo and SWF survivors need to be closer to equal themselves.
why not start at the killer why start from the survivors?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why the devs would choose to do that, balance one side against two different groups at the same time. It seems easier to balance the two groups so it's more like one group, and then balance killers against that.
You favor survivors sooo hard and load and frame sentences from strictly survivors perspective and favor. That it just really sounds like biased non sense.
Not really. All I really said is that there are three groups: killers, solo survivors, and SWF. It's killers vs solo and SWF. Between each other, solo and SWF are not balanced. Trying to balance one thing against a group of things that are themselves imbalanced is an illogical way to go about updating a game. Bringing solo queue up while minimizing the effect on SWF before doing large updates to strengthen killers is a logical way to prioritize the order in which things are changed to minimize frustration and waste.
There are currently 30 killers in DbD, each with their own unique power, some of them with different walking speeds. If I'm correct, there are 106 different killer perks. As far as I can tell, what you and OP are suggesting is that you'd prefer the devs to look at 30 different killers and 106 different perks and balance those against 2 different groups of players, solo and SWF, instead of bridging the gap between solo and SWF so that the 30 killers and 106 perks only have to be balanced against survivors as one group.
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My queue incentives are going back and forth depending on time of day just like always.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328282#Comment_3328282
Respectfully I do not agree with your approach to balance! You say the best way to balance this game is to balance it revolved around bridging the gap between swf and this new hud but this will not balance the game at all imo and only make things worse.
If you ask me personally the game will be balanced much better if you do another perk shake up/rework and buff weak and weaker killers. SWF will destroy every killer that's not Nurse (good) or maybe Blight. Coordinated survivors (new hud ui) makes the weak killers struggle even more.
Luck needs to be reworked as well, why are none of the devs addressing luck anymore? I understand these things are not easy and you guys are doing the best you can but this is not the way you get proper balance! You are essentially holding survivors hands so they won't complain while sh*** on competitive killer players! You "do" realize that killers have a hard time map wise right? Your so called random maps actually goes on the randomly disadvantage maps for killer in what will be I guess you guys attempt at balance. I would be ok with this until this ui hud totally is killing the killer experience. You guys are taking away from what made or makes DBD unique, why? Why fix something that's not broken! DBD was not broken up until this point. Just my opinions and criticism I hope you don't mind!
You say the best way to balance this game is to balance it revolved around bridging the gap between swf and this new hud but this will not balance the game at all imo and only make things worse.
You make it sound like the devs are only bridging the gap between solo and SWF and stopping there. What Peanits said about bridging the gap is "it gives us a much tighter range to balance around," which means the balance part comes after bridging the gap; bridging the gap is not itself the balance.
this is not the way you get proper balance
Killers can't be balanced around two different strengths of opponents. Solo survivors and SWF will always be two different strengths, but the gap has historically been so large between the two that it's been impossible to properly balance killers. The smaller the gap between solo and SWF, the better the game can be balanced. If you want killers to be able to be made stronger, first they need a more stable strength of opponent to be balanced against.
the game will be balanced much better if you do another perk shake up/rework
The devs already said they're doing that. The roadmap posted earlier specifically talked about this.
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@Zokenay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3327151#Comment_3327151
Yeah, but not everyone is constantly saying their progress 24/7.
This update basically tells you that for free.
Those HUD icons are small and they're on the side of the screen. They're not like the health bars in most shooters, easily readable within peripheral vision. This new survivor information is there, yes, but it's easily missed. It will still be preferable for my friend to say what percentage his gen is at. Hell, I still prefer glancing at his screen to see how far he's recovered: it's faster to read his own large recovery bar than the small circle in my HUD.
When he's working on the last gen or opening an exit gate and the info is relevant, he is calling out the progress the entire time.
tells you that for free.
When people talk about SWF, one of the common complaints is all the info they get "for free." I've seen that phrase used constantly when discussing comms. But now that there are HUD icons, it's "SWF have to call it out" while the HUD info is "for free." It makes no sense. Is it only okay for this info to be shared vocally? Do we really need to require survivors to hit a button to have an automated voice tell them the gen progress?
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Last year, people made a sport of running around the map grabbing people's envelopes before they could be revealed. It was very troll-ish and nasty, especially the ones who would do that and then immediately suicide, leaving the match with 50k+ points. I'm not BHVR, but I assume this Lunar Event's envelopes were changed in response to that. If you get to your own envelope first, you reveal it and make it easier for others to find, but you don't need to do it; if someone else finds it before it's revealed the person who burned the offering in the first place doesn't lose out on any points. The envelope rewards points to the person who burned the offering and the person who claims it at the same time, everyone wins.
I like it better this way.
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@Edilibs said:
They made it so that solo survivors can be just as coordinated as swf? Why would they do this?
There's no surprise or real life element now because survivor can "always" know what another survivor is doing because of the icons.
Why does the survivor experience need it's hand to be held I don't understand! That's the problem with these new games today they're dumbed down!
Geeze DBD was fine until this happened? It's really too bad the game has gotten like this..
They made it so that solo survivors can be just as coordinated as swf
Not even. Bad survivors are still bad, solo survivors just have access to a lot of the same info that SWF get. You can still have multiple survivors running to the same hook or no survivors running to the hook. Survivors accidentally or purposefully sandbagging. Survivors suiciding on the hook because they don't want to face the killer.
Why would they do this?
Because when solo and SWF are on wildly different footing with the amount of info they have access to, then it's impossible to balance the game: if they balance around solo survivors, then SWF stomps killers, but if they balance around SWF, then killers absolutely slaughter solo survivors.
I don't see how making it so that both groups of survivors (solo and SWF) are more on the same footing dumbs the game down when SWF already had that info.
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@bm33 said:
I can tell it's a console killer with the new wiggle because without running BO the killers for the most part have no trouble getting me to the hook - it almost feels like wiggling does nothing except when it's console and they have trouble getting through a doorway. If BO wiggle is that bad for players on mouse and keyboard it must be a nightmare for the killers on console.
It's not surprising it's terrible, plenty of us said this was a bad idea and they should do something else. I said just make the skill checks give extra BP for greats but leave wiggle normal.
Yup, I started a whole thread about this issue. As a console killer, the new wiggle system (even without Boil Over) is knocking me around a lot worse than before the patch. Boil Over is an absolute nightmare, it stops me moving forward at all and even crab walking isn't helping me maneuver through the environment to a hook. Boil Over = four minutes on the ground bleeding out. What fun perk design.
Meanwhile, I hit great skill checks as a survivor and the killer doesn't even sway, PC killers don't seem affected by wiggle at all, now. This patch made a real mess of things.
The devs know the controls are bad on console and they made it worse.
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Taking cosmetics out of the store is the dumbest thing. No one should be like, "It's fine." This change does not improve the game for us customers. BHVR changed something for the worse. Justifying it for any reason makes no sense.
My friend unlocked the Lunar cosmetics today, and after he got Yun-Jin's pants he wanted to check out her PJ set in the store. He was quite confused as to why it wasn't there. "Dude, those PJs got removed with the other ones. They're all considered winter cosmetics." "... Really??" So, congrats BHVR. You never know what might trigger a customer to be interested in digital cosmetics. You want customers making impulse buys, but instead a crapload of items were removed from the shop and by the time the items return those potential customers will have forgotten about them.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
Its pretty much always been this way and I dont get it. I was super impressed with myself earlier tonight got someone with boil over on the upstairs balcony of eyrie of crows and actually managed to crab walk to the upstairs hook without falling off.
Yeah, wiggle has always affected console killers more than PC, but that gap seems worse now. The patch notes make it sound like the opposite was supposed to happen with this update.
That's quite impressive about besting Boil Over on Eyrie of Crows, congrats. My crab-walking skills need practice: they can help me reach a hook out in the open when the game refuses to let me walk forward, but I lack the precision control needed for balconies and the narrower doorways.
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Ever since survivors gained the ability to see hook stages, I and a lot of other people have said that killers should get that info, too. And every time it comes up someone argues "but tunneling," which makes absolutely no sense with how tunneling works. A hook stage counter would be helpful for killers who want to spread the love and it would have absolutely no effect whatsoever with a killer who focuses on one survivor and never takes their eyes off them until they're dead.
As killer, it's so easy to lose track of hooks, or for a survivor to reach second state on their first hook without you noticing. I try to pay attention, but I've missed that plenty of times. (When I play survivor, a ridiculous number of teammates save me the millisecond I reach second state. How is a killer even supposed to know that? If a killer is off busy chasing a different survivor the way so many players want, then they're not going to notice the second hook state score event.)
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We console players don't get to hide our names. The devs gave some reason about it breaking built-in console functionality, and despite the fact that console really needs it more than PC, BHVR went ahead and just gave anonymous mode to PC players and excluded the rest of us.
There's no way to hide prestige levels. I've requested this option since BHVR previewed showing off prestige. I do not like other people seeing my prestige level. No matter how irrelevant it is, other players do judge you and it creates problems.
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DbD wasn't developed by the teams who did Dying Light or Elden Ring or Breath of the Wild. Those games can have big maps and weather effects and run without issue on console, but consoles struggle like all hell with DbD's small maps and current level of SFX. Even good PCs can struggle with DbD. I don't want any of my consoles catching fire just so I can experience a hurricane and corn blindness at the same time.
I wouldn't mind if the devs worked on the fog a bit, though. It's so weird and ugly. If they're going to keep this nonsense that turns my PS4 fans into a jet engine, they could at least make the visual experience worth it drowning out all game audio. Eh, maybe I should just plug in my old PS1 and play Silent Hill. Now that was fog, and the graphics are about the same as DbD on the Switch, anyway.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324590#Comment_3324590
I have heard arguements along this line so many times, there are plenty of solo queue purists I have heard that from that it shouldnt be that hard to set up a SWF that doesn't use comms to replicate the solo queue experience. If your playing with 3 randoms in solo queue you are still playing with strangers regardless.
It goes beyond just not liking comms or having to not use audio. I know it really inconvenienced the people I tried playing with having to wait around between matches or having to find a new person because I had to leave after a single match. My reasons don't really matter though, even if I had a group of people to play with they wouldn't always be available to play when I am and vice versa, most people will play solo queue matches at some point, and when they do it sucks to be the random person stuck with a 3-man.
But it's all personal experience. Maybe other solo players usually get really nice altruistic 3-man SWF as teammates, so not necessarily every solo survivor would opt out of being teamed up with SWF.
Doesn't matter, this will never be implemented. Players aren't going to be given any matchmaking options other than cross-play on or off. Can't even get console-only and PC-only cross-play, for god's sake, we certainly won't get anything that filters out SWF. I'm sending my wishes and complaints out into the void to vent, not as a serious request or with any sort of expectation.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324476#Comment_3324476
You realize you can justbsolve your own issue by finding your own group right.
I don't like playing games with strangers. I've done that and it's not enjoyable, especially because most want to talk over comms. I'd rather not play at all. I have one other person I play with, and we play in the same room together, but we don't play together all the time or anything.
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I personally dislike Huntress, and I can't play as her worth a damn on console, but even I'm disappointed she didn't get anything for year of the freaking rabbit. What the absolute hell, BHVR.
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I want to block SWF as survivor. I hate being the random with a 3-man. In my years of playing, I can count on one hand the number of times a 3-man has treated me like a teammate.
As killer, I don't give a crap.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324427#Comment_3324427
That's why BHVR created more than one load out for each character. I don't use it because I don't see a usage for know, but if survivors could ban my perks I would have already prepared other loadouts so I don't have to re-do my build all over again in case 4 of my perks get banned.
Even if none of the loadouts share perks, since there are four survivors each loadout could contain a different perk that a survivor banned. Unless all four survivors have to agree on the same perk, which would either have to be done in-lobby as a poll (and no one ever agrees on anything in this game) or if the players choose it before queueing up then it would make matchmaking a horrible nightmare as there a very, very large number of perks in the game for it to have to find four survivors who all chose the same perk to ban.
Personally, I only have one perk loadout I use as both killer and survivor. For killer three of those perks are non-negotiable, I just wouldn't play at all if I couldn't use one of them. I assume there are other players who are like that, too.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
No. However, if both sides could ban 4 perks it would make the game healthier imo.
That would either break the system due to people who queue up and walk away, not paying attention to lobbies (how long before someone who doesn't fix their perks gets kicked? how many players will a lobby have to go through to get someone who won't get kicked or outright leave, meaning the other players are just sitting there in the lobby waiting? what happens when the fifth player shows up and they have acceptable perks equipped but the other players break the new player's bans?), or it'd break matchmaking because it would have to filter out players using those perks and every individual would have their own set of rules which could conflict with other players who match the first player's criteria and... oof, as nice as it'd be to just say no to four exhaustion perks when I want to play tier-1-no-add-ons Myers, I don't want to sit in a queue for two hours for a meme. Quicker to just let four Sprint Bursters do gens and leave, even if it happens three matches in a row.
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According to BHVR, no.
XBOX SERIES X|S I’m an XB1 user, am I eligible for an upgrade? We recommend you refer to some of Microsoft’s own documentation, such as https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/15/what-is-smart-delivery-xbox-series-x/ Will my progress be carried over from XB1 to Next Gen? Yes! So long as you are using the same account that you…Relevant quote (at the very bottom of the page):
For users who have purchased the physical Nightmare Edition of the game, you may be eligible for a voucher to claim the content of the Nightmare Edition on PS5 by reaching out to our Support Team for a free voucher which you can use to reclaim the content of the Nightmare Edition on PS5. *THIS HAS NOW ENDED*
Vouchers will be valid until March 1st 2022 - so make sure to redeem them before then!
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If it was a survivor, possibly a lot of bad matches that day and they see the BPS as bad luck. BPS matches are often pretty suck as a survivor.
If it was the killer, then maybe they went in with a specific goal, like playing Tombstone Myers, and they didn't want to ruin a 3 BPS match. Or they went in to do a killer daily ritual, and it's not a killer they're good at, so they can't play aggressively to earn points but they don't want to try to farm, either. Or they just want to quickly get their daily finished and be done with the match, and whether the survivors gen rush and don't give you a chance to get your daily done or they want to drag the match out and farm, neither is an attractive prospect.
(These days I mostly play killer to do dailies, if you couldn't tell by my bias. I often prefer Myers, Dredge, and Nemesis dailies because I can do them with minimal to no survivor interaction, and you don't want me as killer in a BPS match if I'm in that mindset. I apologize to every survivor who's gotten me as their killer in a BPS match because I wasn't paying attention to the lobby/offerings. My bad, sorry your stuff was wasted.)
Or maybe it was a genuine not-on-purpose disconnect. Those do happen.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I’m glad the bonus BP from BBQ & WGLF are gone, I am no longer a slave to these perks. I could never play either role without running these perks due to the huge amount of BP I would miss out on for not running them. I still see BBQ used all the time without lethal pursuer.
Too many people had this romanticisation with BBQ and the Devs made the right call removing these perks away from the ‘grind reduction’ category. The whole anti-camping/tunneling incentive property of BBQ was a joke. It might have incentivized some people, but many who used it just camped and tunneled anyway.
Sucks to play killer and feel no motivation to hook. I'll hook for challenges, but otherwise I just play kind of aimlessly until I feel like I'm done, maybe that includes hitting or maybe I stick to chase only, and then I'll let the survivors do gens in peace. (If I start hooking/killing it's usually because the survivors refuse to do gens or are AFK.) The only motivation to play that's not challenge-related since the stacks were removed was the snowmen, dancing around in those was the best. If I got two or three survivors in snowmen giving me high-fives, that was a total win.
Personally, I don't want the BBQ or WGLF stacks back, I just want them made basekit. I miss having them for a win condition, something satisfying to aim for. If other people don't feel incentivized by the stacks, cool, whatever, everyone has their own reasons for playing.
As an aside: When it comes to the queue incentives, if the side I want to play doesn't have a queue incentive, then I just don't play at all. Ironically, I don't play at all quite a lot since the incentives were added.
It's funny, I don't even need Bloodpoints, it's just that more Bloodpoints = bigger win, even if the reason for all the points is five flans. If BHVR doesn't want to make stacks basekit, they need to come up with a new way to make playing their game feel rewarding, because neither pips nor BP seem to be what they want to use. Right now I make my own fun by memeing, but whether as killer or survivor memeing (while fun for me) is usually considered to be detrimental to the match as a whole.