TicTac
TicTac
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But then survivor couldnt do the vault-into-you-with-lithe-tech anymore.
A failed grab should really count as a hit.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2176606#Comment_2176606
If survivors hide in lockers all game to deny The Shape any stalk, then he should be allowed to pull them out of the locker, drop them on the ground, and then stalk them??
The Shape's wasting a lot of time by doing this. He just needs to complete his daily for stalking survivors. This must be fair and not an exploit by your logic then.
I think you dont understand it. They get only tormented when you wiggle free, so the killer gets stunned (like ds) and they can run away. A myers could do that, too. They could let you wiggle free and then stalk you. Its just a really dumb strategy.
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@zestros said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2174545#Comment_2174545
I shot from early 5 to early 3 and still climbing when I switched from Trickster to Wraith so I wonder what rank the author is basing the post on.
The best 10% survivor at rank 1, i guess. But thats what i mean with good survivor, idk what op means.
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Hide near a good loop and look for the wraith. When he finds you, loop him. Its ok if you dont sit on a gen in the open when you are exposed.
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@dbd4life said:
since maps are smaller(got more dead zones etc.) i doubt u need to increase the difficulties for survivors, i could understand in 2017 maps, but now the game is killed sided and u could look not just at statistically which is true that killers are the favorite in winning games, but also on the high level of players, u have killers like nurse and spirit who can beat any team out there if the player behind them is good enough to do so. so no need to make gens slower. i think hooktime should be longer so campers would get punished for camping instead(camaredirie is a waste).
You have two, maybe four killer, which are viable against good survivor. So it would be better to nerf them to a-tier and buffing the base game, so that you can play against more killer if the MMR-sytem releases.
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Wraith is decent. But you feel it when you play against good survivor. I play him without addons for a winstreak and i can clearly see the difference. I have many matches where i absolutely destroy but then i have some survivor who make it really hard. If i would get a match with 4 of them and they would do gens i would lose. But there are many killer who wouldnt have a chance against that.
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@beached said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2173490#Comment_2173490
I will agree that as long as tunneling is seen as a strategy then DS is meta but personally I see tunneling as an liability rather than an asset against SWF’s.
Tunneling or better to focus a survivor is the strongest strategy. Most lose with it bc they wait for the unhook to tunnel. But while the survivor is hooked you need to pressure the other 3 survivor. In the best case you focus two survivor. While the one is hooked you chase the other. This is better bc you avoid ds and bt. But without this perks tunneling after unhook would be the best strategy. For Killer like nurse or spirit that dont care that you gain distance or reach a loop with this perks immediately tunneling is also the best strategy.
Another thing why tunneling seems weak is bc most survivor normally dont play it safe. They are to greedy and you get hits. But the same survivor will play it absolutely safe if he gets tunneled and this makes chasing him a lot harder.
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I played 5 matches with new object and nobody tunneled me. A nurse camped me on the second hook and nodded, but the last gen got done while she was hooking me and i think she just wanted to secure her second kill.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2173077#Comment_2173077
PH loses vs good survivors. I also don't think most survivors find PH fun to play against either for similar reasons to why they hate DS.
Pyramid is almost always a threat in a chase. But he needs too much time to down, travel the map etc. So i think there need to be more ways to slow down gens, but only so much that a chase over a minute still hurts the killer a lot. So while Pyramid right now would lose the match against good survivor they still need to outplay him in a chase and are not safe. How fun such a killer is and whether he has counterplay or not are other problems. And frankly speaking idk how some killer abilities can be fun for survivor and still viable. (Deathslinger, Pyramid etc)
I could say a chase should only last around 40sec to be viable. But its not so easy bc how good a chase was depends on what did you interrupt, where did you chase, how many ressources did the survivor use etc.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2173029#Comment_2173029
"I want slower gens created with killer lethality. Not slower gens by default. What that means is that if a killer get hooks gen slows down. So it isnt a waste to hook a person midmatch for the first time instead of tunneling. But i still want a mechanic which slows gens down at the start, so the killer has a chance to build up pressure. So the killer should get more time if he does good and shouldnt have more time by default. And for the increased lethality its more like a buff for the weaker killer. The majority of pallets shouldnt be so strong that you need a power to ignore pallets to get survivor quick enough. I shouldnt be able to loop at shack then hold w to a short wall long wall and hold w back to shack while the myers in T3 can only break the pallets and follow me."
Oh well you're talking about something completely different now. You're not talking about killer lethality your talking about an entirely new mechanic. Btw the lethality you're talking about is something akin to Spirit levels and the lethality she has is completely hated by lots of the community. You can say what they hate is the counter play component but then you lower lethality if you gave her more counter play than she already has.
I agree with your other points about loops. Most the loops in the game are way too safe and not balanced 50/50 to where the better mind game wins. Most loops are essentially so safe that as you mentioned, in order to meet the time standards for winning you have to have a power that ignores them.
I think Pyramid would be closer to the amount of lethality then spirit.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172985#Comment_2172985
"But like with trapper against old object sometimes you need to change your tactic. If you have a part of the map trapped you can chase a survivor, trap every loop, so that he needs to leave and herd him to your traps."
Well first Trapper is a bad example. You can actually chase somewhat with Trapper as he's a 115%, Hag is a 110%, not the same. You aren't gonna be herding with Hag like that unless the survivors are rank 15's or something.
"Or you can stay close to your web and if one gets disarmed you chase the survivor into the next trap. It helps to change your trap placement or to set a backup trap at the same loop."
That's not a chaser Hag, that's playing defensively in your web.
"If the survivor are on tournament level and destroy your traps all at the same time you will lose, but that never happens. Even the sweaty russian rank 1 swf with object and every meta perk couldnt do it and they were really good survivor. They got all gens done and almost escaped but i never felt like a killer without a power. So i know that there are teams which will destroy you, but i never met them. Everytime i lose with hag its bc i messed up."
Hag is a pub stomper. She destroys bad players more so than the average killer and the average survivor is pretty bad. She loses quite hard with actually good survivors.
"Franklin is not that bad against flashlights. I did see it even in a tournament on a hag. Trapping items can cost survivor a lot of time or they lose it."
Tournaments run by different rules and most the tournaments are literally just face camping each person to death on a hook. A lot of the tournaments have had really bad players as well. You should never be wasting a perk slot on Franklin's if your actual intention is winning. The scenario you're describing will work on the average survivor because as we've talking about, they're bad.
If you want to mainly reference average games which are against bad players then yeah that's fine, you can run whatever you want as nothing really matters if the survivors are bad. You can run zero perks, zero addons and still slaughter most average matches even at rank 1. My responses are if you are actually facing decent survivors that are at least as good as yourself.
https://youtu.be/br871ZPS5R8 at 54:25 you see Otzdarva with hag against agony. Agony is clearly a strong tournament team and Otzdarva chooses Franklins. They could only bring one flashlight but it shows that Franklin is not a useless perk in general.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172942#Comment_2172942
"How long is a long chase for you?"
In order for you to have a chance at winning against good survivors chases need to be <20 seconds tops. Hit or pallet in that time and then you rotate pressure. Longer than that and you're losing the game. Even then, you can still lose through objective time even when you're at sub 20 seconds if they're really efficient.
"Imo long chases are boring. Chases are interesting if you need to outplay the killer every few seconds. Like on unsafer pallets where you need to fake a vault or you need to stun the killer to get away."
The average community disagrees with this. Most players enjoy long chases. Long being greater than 20 seconds.
"But currently a bad killer can get a easy hit with bloodlust in this structures."
Bringing this up is completely irrelevant. The time it takes to gain bloodlust is losing you the game, so if they are actually bloodlusting you for hits they're throwing the game away for it. Bloodlusting is not a viable strat. IE not worth mentioning.
"Safe loops should be rare and you would need to think when to use them in a match."
I agree, they're currently way too prevalent.
"So i want to create slower matches with more killer lethality which slow gens down."
You're wanting to double dip.
Our options are either increasing killer lethality to keep up with gen speeds or slowing the game down so they don't need to be as lethal to compete. You're wanting both?
"Another problem with long chases are that 3 survivor need to wait and hold m1. So while i have no problem with doing gens, i dont like matches right now where i need to do 3 gens (240sec). And personally i prefer matches which take 10-15min."
That's understandable. That's part of why I think the "slowing the game down" should be with extra objectives that make "doing gens" more interesting and fun than it currently is.
Long chases are for the majority of the community only possible if they are that safe that the killer needs to absolutely outplay the survivor. (Example: a hit at a shack with pallet.) That would mean loops which are so strong that the killer should focus on forcing the pallet drop. But then its only a ressource management simulator like its currently on some maps with only strong pallets. Or you let the loops like they are now, but then bad survivor would absolutely destroyed bc they would need to go on long chases bc they need more time for gens but they just cant do it.
I brought bloodlust up bc a killer who depends on it makes for a boring chase. He will lose the game, but they will not care. Camping shows that. So my idea with weaker pallets would make the game boring if bloodlust stays and before someone comes again and say my idea is stupid bc bloodlust, i will say it myself.
I want slower gens created with killer lethality. Not slower gens by default. What that means is that if a killer get hooks gen slows down. So it isnt a waste to hook a person midmatch for the first time instead of tunneling. But i still want a mechanic which slows gens down at the start, so the killer has a chance to build up pressure. So the killer should get more time if he does good and shouldnt have more time by default. And for the increased lethality its more like a buff for the weaker killer. The majority of pallets shouldnt be so strong that you need a power to ignore pallets to get survivor quick enough. I shouldnt be able to loop at shack then hold w to a short wall long wall and hold w back to shack while the myers in T3 can only break the pallets and follow me.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172767#Comment_2172767
Hard games are fun, unfair games are not. There's a difference.
Franklin's is a meme perk and a waste of a perk lot.
There is no such thing as "chaser" Hag, that's just simply playing Hag badly.
I wont deny that a hag who is chasing is a weaker hag. But like with trapper against old object sometimes you need to change your tactic. If you have a part of the map trapped you can chase a survivor, trap every loop, so that he needs to leave and herd him to your traps.
Or you can stay close to your web and if one gets disarmed you chase the survivor into the next trap. It helps to change your trap placement or to set a backup trap at the same loop.
If the survivor are on tournament level and destroy your traps all at the same time you will lose, but that never happens. Even the sweaty russian rank 1 swf with object and every meta perk couldnt do it and they were really good survivor. They got all gens done and almost escaped but i never felt like a killer without a power. So i know that there are teams which will destroy you, but i never met them. Everytime i lose with hag its bc i messed up.
Franklin is not that bad against flashlights. I did see it even in a tournament on a hag. Trapping items can cost survivor a lot of time or they lose it.
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They need to fix the hit registration. But im not sure whether i like the corrupt purge activation over a distance. Right now cleansing far away is a good counter, so without that i think less people would cleanse.
My problem with plague is that i dont know how lethal her corrupt purge against good survivor is, bc there are not many survivor which are experienced against plague. Additionally her lethality depends on the structures a lot. Strong short wall loops are useless against her and make some maps really strong for her. So bc of that i dont know how much you should buff her corrupt purge without making it broken.
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@Blueberry said:
Here's a general change that would make the game more fun for both sides.
Killers in order to be "viable" currently have to have extremely strong chase potential in order to keep up with how fast gens are right now. This leads to "un-fun" 1v1 interactions for survivors (short chases).
Instead of making killers strong enough to keep up with objective speeds, lets instead slow objective speeds down.
In other words lets make it so killers and survivors can enjoy those long chases without it costing them the entire game. This leads to much more fun interactions.
People hate some of the stronger killers because they can down you so fast and with little interaction but currently the game goes so fast that those downing speeds are required if they want a chance at winning. Let's just make those speeds not required.
IE instead of strengthening killers to the "unfun" levels required to be competitive, just slow the game down instead.
For context I'm using "viable" as against "good" survivors, not average rank 1 matches.
How long is a long chase for you? Imo long chases are boring. Chases are interesting if you need to outplay the killer every few seconds. Like on unsafer pallets where you need to fake a vault or you need to stun the killer to get away. But currently a bad killer can get a easy hit with bloodlust in this structures. Safe loops should be rare and you would need to think when to use them in a match. So i want to create slower matches with more killer lethality which slow gens down.
Another problem with long chases are that 3 survivor need to wait and hold m1. So while i have no problem with doing gens, i dont like matches right now where i need to do 3 gens (240sec). And personally i prefer matches which take 10-15min.
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I personally dont mind going against rank 1. But maybe many people say that bc they can only see the rank after the game and if they are rank 1 after the game that means they did good enough to not depip. So if you destroy a rank 1 you only see him as rank 2.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
I still never understand nerf BBQ people.
They are angry bc it doesnt allow them to selfcare in a corner against sloppy.
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@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172592#Comment_2172592
Killers who runs blindness Add Ons or Perks want to say hello
They can come. I have time to meet 3 people.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2171517#Comment_2171517
Stronger against bad survivors, worse against good survivors. That's the complete opposite of what we want.
You mention a game of 4 flashlights but that's kind of irrelevant as you'd be dodging that lobby as Hag anyway.
I never dodge lobbies. I would probably bring franklins, but a hard game is more interesting. Against a flashlight you need to set up less and play more of a chaser hag.
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Ruin and Pop was always the meta in competitive. With undying more players saw the worth of using two slots for one active perk and after the nerf they switched it out against pop.
Pop is stronger in the late game as ruin if your totem doesnt spawn near your 3 gen and ruin helps with the early game pressure.
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If you see every gen as equal value, skipping one gen doesnt seem that strong. But in a match where all players are good, the last gen is more than 1/5 of the objective.
The first two gens are free. If it ends with 3 gens left, it means the killer destroyed the survivors. If the survivor all escape, the key is also useless. So keys seem not strong bc they are useless in onesided matches.
So if the survivor are decent, they will almost always get to 2 gens, even if the killer is better. And if it is a balanced match, survivor will get min. three escapes.
Finding the hatch is not hard. You can use a offering or search for it while the killer protects the gens. But to be fair it can be hard to get it done with random teammates.
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Thats a hard question. Balanced around the best players? Average players? All players?
When you take the best player, then nurse, spirit and other S-tier killer are the most balanced. But i think an average spirit is op against an average survivor team.
Against bad players every 115% killer is balanced, bc bad killers dont really use their power. Or maybe all killer are op when only rank 20 play.
For average player is maybe Billy balanced. But i dont know whether its easier to learn to hit or to evade a chainsaw.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154443#Comment_2154443
Because then you also need to crouchwalk out of the hook, giving hag approximately two and a half minutes to come back to it and get you back on the hook.
Unless you run Urban Evasion.
If PH's trail isn't allowed to be put near hooks, Hag traps definitely shouldn't be.
The problem is that many loops like jungle gyms have hooks. So you couldnt trap this loops. I think a better change would be that every trap around a hook gets destroyed if someone gets unhooked.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2170960#Comment_2170960
A feature like that in her base kit would make her extremely weak.
It wouldnt really make her extremely weak. Only good survivor can spot hag traps consistently and with this change you could make the traps less visible. She would still be stronger then against 4 flashlights right now.
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@ChunWooHan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2171439#Comment_2171439
3 years playing... the same matchmaking... the problem isnt the match making... but well that is your pov and its ok. but here my post is from another thing not talking about match making.
1. YOU said you get teammates which are so bad they cost you the game. That means YOU said the problem is bad matchmaking.
2. If the matchmaking was always bad, its no counterargument.
3. You are really egocentric when you think you should win when you know your team is worse than the killer
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@ChunWooHan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2171343#Comment_2171343
so finally the solution here is make friends rank's 1 to play in premade and gen rush, thanks for the advice.
No the advice is to lower your expectations. Everyone knows that the matchmaking isnt good, so they deal with it. If you cant deal with it, then you need to play with good survivor in a swf or wait until the MMR-system.
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Then you need something to counter bodyblocking. It would maybe be fair if a survivor with bt has no collision and killer get a bonus for not tunneling.
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@Aimant said:
Hello, everyone. As expected, I will share my opinion here:
For all of you here saying wonderful things about the new Coldwind rework, "super strong loops", "not nerfed at all" and that sort of stuff... I assume you're main killers, right? Because there's no way a main survivor or someone who plays both sides would agree that nonsense argument. Just to make it clear, I'm the second tipe of person who plays both sides, as survivor and killer.
The obvious reduction of pallets? The machine (harvester-tech) nerfed? The dead zones (which are "covered" with useless huge objects as boxes or hay blocks) around the map? There's no need to have 7000+ hours to understand such a simple situation that happened here: the rework of Coldwind map is absolutely a pro-killer one right now. If you want to accept it or not, is your choice. But you can't change the evident fact that it is.
I've been telling it from a time ago: The main (and worrying) problem of Dead by Daylight and its toxicity is lack of empathy. And the comments here are the living proof of that.
Really easy to say "If you waste 8 pallets in 2 minutes, then you're such a bad player"... With the corresponding respect, THERE'RE 4 SURVIVORS playing the game, you can't be so selfish as main killer. If I play alone and some of the randoms throw pallets as there's no tomorrow, why would it be my fault? Is it really my fault that my teammates are as bad as a rotten potato?
If your answer is "yes", then there's no discussion to keep going on. Hope you can change your mentality soon and realize it's not everybody's fault. Playing without friends has turned into something impossible right now, and it's a pity for those good players.
Beauty aapart (which it really may be, personally too bright and sunny for me), Coldwind rework is a shame for survivors, a complete disappointment. Hope Behaviour can reconsider it and fix the disguisting loops, pallets and structures they designed.
I'll keep forward this post. Have a nice day!
Its not your fault that your teammates are potatoes. But you cant expect to win with a team of potatoes.
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Pc or console? Crossplay?
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I still have problems with the corn. I only played as survivor but i think as killer it will be worse.
Rotten fields had enough pallets for me. The problem with farm maps is that almost every pallet is really strong. So before the rework it was too easy to loop for me, so i hope there are less pallets, it would be fair. But bad survivor who dont use the full potential and waste this pallets will struggle. Bc of that i think many unsafe pallets are better than only a few good ones.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
All they need to do is make the overheat mechanic like Leatherfaces tantrum mechanic where if you rev the chainsaw to much you overheat.
@Phasmamain said:
All they need to do is make his overheat less punishing. I’d make it so that chainsaw sprinting stalls your overheat as opposed to gaining heat
There are certainly some killer who dont play billy bc of the overheat mechanic. But what really gutted him were his addon nerfs. The skill cap of billy was his curving and without his addons there are less tiles where it works. Instasaw and crack billy needed a nerf, but the nerf was too much.
So even without overheat billy wouldnt be much better then now.
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Trapper. If your traps work, its so much fun.
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When you get 4 iridescent emblems its 100% a double pip. So it is a bug.
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Post this in feedback.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2169252#Comment_2169252
Don't get me wrong, Since I main him and Plague (of all things), to me personally he is in the A-B tiers when I play him due on the incredible diversity/freedom he has in all the possible builds you can make for him, all of which completely change his gameplay, and make the Doc the most unpredictable killer in the game. However, the reason I'm ranking him in the C-D Tiers is simply because not many other players realize this, and just play builds that enhance his M1 killer gameplay, just like they do any other standard M1 killer.
His power has a hell of a lot of utility that most people don't realize. When I saw a vid of a team of survivors doing heal tech at the gate against a doc, and watched the doc player lose miserably because he kept hitting the healing teammates, or When I saw another Wherein a Doc was chasing a survivor with a key to a closed Hatch, and he went for a swing, I just wanted to scream "Shock them you Idiot!" as it would have prevented both escapes. Only a seasoned Doctor player realizes this, but for the majority of Doc players out there, all they care about is his Anti-Stealth, and M1. My position for him on the Tier list was never about how I play him, and how fun I find him... It was simply about his limitations that are advertised in almost every video of his gameplay out there, and how so many players are playing him wrong.
When he first came out, I was probably one of the only players that realized his potential for total map control, and I made my build around that in order to dominate survivors: Old Calm 3 and Order 3 (massive TR and 25% faster madness gain rate within his static field), Old Tinkerer (Used to make his Static Field drive madness up 10% faster), Distressing, Unnerving Presence, and Overcharge.
With this build, Survivors gained a madness level literally every 10-15 seconds on Avg in his static field depending upon his proximity to the survivors, and gave Doc so much control over the map and gen progress. All of that has changed now though, but mostly for the better, and yet, people still don't take advantage of any of this. They call all of his Versatile and unique builds "Meme Builds" and choose to ignore them. That's Why I put him so low on the Tier list. Not because of how I play him, but because of how the majority of players do.
I think that are two different things. For example i play a pretty basic doctor. Corrupt, Pop, Thrilling, Stbfl without addons. But i know many things like old doctors 100% hook rescue grab.
I would say even basic doc with good addons is B-tier. But you are right i never verse good docs online.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2168754#Comment_2168754
You are semi-right. What makes Nurse S tier is the fact that once you put in the time to learn her, she's practically a force of nature/act of god/broken as hell killer. Sure she takes much longer than any other killer to get even "decent" with, and getting "good" takes even longer, but she outplays Doctor by such a large amount using her power, that he's no where near her level.
Unlike Nurse however, Doc has much more Diversity in his builds, and that is where he shines the most, but unfortunately the avg player just ignores this aspect, and don't realize how much he "breaks the game" with said builds. Because of That, I've come across and beaten so many Doctor players who either haven't built him properly, have gone with a default build, or don't know how to use him effectively with the build they've chosen.
A good Nurse can down a survivor in less than 12 seconds while using her power. A good Doc on the other hand is Lucky if he downs one in less than 20. It's simple math. The faster the killer downs a survivor using whatever means they have, the stronger the killer. Freddy, while being a primary M1 killer can either slow survivors or TP to a gen anytime during the match, which gives him the mobility and anti-loop advantage. While Doc has Anti-loop, Its at a significantly lower advantage, and His mobility is completely restricted to the average killers M/S.
Overall, Doc only has 1 trump card against all other killers according to the masses, and that is his Anti stealth... which unfortunately is being phased out by the devs, so its practically useless at this point. The Argument that he's C-D tier still stands... Unless you can present a Compelling argument as to why his ability is akin to any other killer in the upper tiers.
The problem i have with comparing doctor to the other killer is that i disagree with your tierlist heavily.
Imo opinion this killer are weaker then doctor and i put them in C/D-tier: Legion, Wraith, Clown, Pig, Myers, Trickster, Trapper (i dont count tombstone, tampered timer or other addons which give a insane buff to the basekit)
From this killer you disagree on trapper, myers, pig and clown.
First some words about doctor: antistealth isnt really the strongest ability against good survivor but it is not useless like you said. Calm spirit is not that common and im 90% sure you still see the notification. But i dont know bc i dont remember when i played against calm spirit with doctor. Lockers are a good counter but it wastes time and depends on guessing when doc will use his blast. And you forget the gamedelaying advantage thus ability has. Snapping out buys you 12 seconds. And they cant finish a gen in your face, finish a heal or heal someone slugged. Sometimes its worth to use a static blast against three survivor you can see bc of the madness increase. In M3 you can use the doctor illusions to find survivor. And then we have all the effects with addons.
Clown: he and doctor have no problem getting hits on unsafe pallets. On some other tiles clown has a slight advantage but he needs to reload for his power. Yellow bottles as map traversal are proven to be a waste. So madness gives doctor more map pressure. Doctor almost never needs to search for survivor, so he loses less time. Doctor starts the first chase faster. So while clown is a slightly better chaser, doctor has a time advantage.
Myers, Pig, (Wraith): i think you overestimate stealth killer against good survivor
Myers: T1 means a bad early game (faster stalk addons are good for this) and T3 is not threatening enough. A better lunge and faster vaulting speed make you not unloopable. The stalk limit on survivor is a problem if you only find a almost fully stalked survivor which makes you a killer without a power.
Pig: her stealth can give you a hit, but its costs you time bc of the reduced movement speed. So you need to know when its worth to use it. Her traps are completely rng, if you are lucky the survivor waste a lot of time or they just remove them in seconds. For the traps you need to down them. But here comes the problem with her chase power: if a survivor drops the pallet her ambush is useless almost every time. A survivor can leave the tile when you start crouching, too. This is mindgameable with a crouch fake, but a dropped pallet is not. So if you struggle with your downs and gens get done, your traps get weaker.
Trapper: he has so many problems. Indoor maps or all reworked maps where grass gets thinner and thinner and you cant hide traps (Low settings make it really easy to spot many traps) Then he needs a bag, so he has only one free addon slot. The traps on the map spawn in really dumb places (on hills, in corners etc) and you waste too much time. Maps (the item) still let you see traps. You can use dead hard against traps. One player can harrass your traps while other do gens. Good players will avoid stepping on grass. Its a power which costs a lot of time and it not always pays of.
I stopped comparing this killers with doctor directly bc it would get repetitive. But i can get more into detail for a specific killer if you want.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2168220#Comment_2168220
"According to the masses" The Doc only has 2 gimmicks:
Anti-stealth
Possible anti-loop... if you're good at timing his shocks.
Otherwise, he's entirely an M1 killer. If the Doc you are against can't time their shocks, then the only advantage they have against you is knowing where you are, but not where you'll be. Add in the fact that Lockers, and Calm Spirit completely counter his anti-stealth power, and you've got a killer that, at best, can't compete with the likes of
Spirit, Nurse, or Freddy (yes even after the "nerf").
Those 3 are cream of the crop S Tier.
A Tier for me is Blight, Hillbilly, LF, Huntress, Hag, and Trapper.
B Tier Starts at Oni, Executioner, Shape, Ghost Face, Pig
C is Plague, Demogorgon, Deathslinger, Clown, Doctor-
D tier is -Doctor, Wraith, Twins,
and F is Legion, Trickster.
The bottom line for how I rate them is how their power/ability helps them in a chase. The faster they can down a survivor, the better, and unfortunately Doc just can't compete against a plethora of other killers that not only can down survivors faster, but can do so with their power/ability.
Doc is an M1 killer with a slight advantage in Anti-Stealth which can be defeated with 1 perk, and anti loop, which takes a LOT of experience to master. IF everyone put as much time into Doc as I have, and realized His potential as the single most versatile killer in the game as far as builds go... then I would gladly put him up in the A-B territory. Honestly it's really a shame because his add-ons, and perk combinations can completely change his playstyle in ways survivors never expect! Last Night alone I played Ninja Doc x2, World Wide Doc 1x, Impossible Skillchecks Doc 1x, Sniper Doc x1, and Bully Doc 1x! All of which changed his TR, the way you play him, and the way survivors try to adapt!
Seriously, no OTHER KILLER gives you this many options for changing your gameplay with the add-on and build combo's! Sadly though, most people don't care about that, and treat him like they do every other killer: "What build is a good middle ground that equals the most wins on Average"
IMO, They are just too chicken to really have fun with him/his build potential, and simply don't realize that no matter the build you choose, you CAN win with him as long as you know how to play it!
Sigh... Sadly that's not the case, and he has his limitations, so... C-D tier... As much as I hate to admit it.
Wouldnt nurse be F-tier with this reasoning? Imo its easier to learn docs shocks then nurse blinks. With good shocks he is not a chase monster, but he is decent.
A bad doctor doesnt matter. If he would play against survivor on the same skill level he wouldnt need to use his power anyway. It sounds like you base the strength of a killer with the scenario "bad killer vs decent survivor". Correct me if im wrong.
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He is good in chase, but you need two hits and you need to reload. If survivor spread out and do gens you are not stopping them fast enough.
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@TWiXT said:
He feels like the same ol' silly C-D tier killer-with-an-annoying-mechanic to me, and this is coming from someone who mains him, and played as him and against him a few times today, so... *Shrugs*
He got a new skin, and a visual update to his character model, but apart from that nothing really seems to have changed.
If he is C/D-tier which of the killer are worse than him? I would say doctor is B-tier.
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You can finally play him without addons. Other than that nothing changed really.
The best addons together are strong, but you dont need them against average teams. A good team which will send you to a bad map will still give you a hard time. He cant deal with pallets well and callouts hurt him.
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@Northener1907 said:
Play as survivor then. Problem solved.
You should have read the entire post. I dont blame you i wanted to skip the rest after the third sentence, too. I mean every day there is someone with the same rant, it gets boring.
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I play for kills. I still "respect" ds even if it is not there and tunnel only if i would otherwise lose the game.
I dont play for 12 hooks anymore bc survivor who let this happen are so bad in chase its more like a chore and no fun. If a team is bad i just want it to end quickly or i try stupid things like sniping with huntress, dumb bear traps etc.
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@Zixology said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166871#Comment_2166871
If you think it takes a long time to get out of tier 1, I refuse to believe that you've ever played Myers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2167009#Comment_2167009
He only takes a long time if you're using high tier addons... Which literally tell you that it will take longer.
I think you are the one who never played against good players. Its normal bc you dont see good players in red rank often and some of them even give you free stalk bc they dont take myers seriously but i played long enough to know what a good survivor can do if hes serious.
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@Zixology said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166832#Comment_2166832
He takes less than 10 seconds...
Have... Have you even played Myers?
Yes probably more than you. I thought it was easy stomping noobs left and right. So after a year i tried a winstreak with no addons. I was maybe at the eight game where i got for the first time good players. They spread out on gens and they made it hard to stalk with the T1-movememt speed. I dont know whether they were on comms or had spinechill, but they knew when i stalked them. When i reached T2 the game was almost over.
So just bc in 90% of the games noob survivor give you your early stalk for free, makes it not a good mechanic.
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@Zixology said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166801#Comment_2166801
Myers is honestly quite balanced... He's a well designed killer.
I'd say that Billy was the same and didn't need a change.
Myers needs too long to get out of T1. He has a really bad early game. His T3 is not threatening enough and theres a limit how long you can stalk someone. Compare that with Oni.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166152#Comment_2166152
I'm assuming by "According to you, discounting licensed killers, who would be the best killer for new players to get?" OP means "According to you, not including licensed killers, who would be the best killer for new players to get?". And you listed two licensed ones.
Ah now i understand. Otzdarva has a video.
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@RustyMcBeefy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166158#Comment_2166158
But it would've been my first time to rank 3 :'(
Rank reset will only reset to rank 5. You will get to rank 1 in no time. Good luck.
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Just stop caring about pips. Nobody cares about it.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166054#Comment_2166054
didn't op specifically say "discounting licensed killers"?
Which one are discounted?
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Just play tombstone myers and when you get: "entity displeased" and 4k, you dont care about it and you get used to it.