TWiXT
TWiXT
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
It's called Decisive Strike and Survivors do it all day long.
While you beat me to it, I'm still gonna have my say:
Yeah, DS, its the biggest FU that survivors have had for years when it comes to wanting physical retaliation on the killers. Nothings more demoralizing than taking down a survivor 30 meters from an open gate only to either let them escape via taking the DS, or slowly follow them as they crawl out because there's nothing the killer can do about it. If that's not comparable to punching the killer in the face... I don't know what is.
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@Chchchcheryl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840068#Comment_1840068
That's a good point actually!
Imagine all the Myers scratched mirror jumpscares with that perk!
Are you able to tell when the dolls swap? Do they all have a red stain or only the active one? Thinking because if they didn't then setting up three dolls at a vital gen/a door would be certain death for a lone survivor there!
Would undetectable effects work on them? (The jumpscare is real)
The dolls gain their red stain and TR pretty quickly when you transfer to them, but maintain it for 6 seconds after you transfer to another doll, that way if say the team of survivors thought the way to beat them was to all pile on a gen and keep all angles covered, you could surround them with 3-5 dolls, keep switching between em, and inch forward with the one they take their eyes off of. Basically rendering that tactic a death trap because once a doll is touching a survivor, Transfixed or not, they can strike. I really had to think that one through because it seemed like it was the most troublesome counter to them, but as long as they maintain the red stain and TR while surrounding the survivors, they will have the advantage since the survivors won't know which one is the real possessed doll. Their Red Light, Green Light mechanic is also why I made them move at 6m/s (same default speed Victor has), because anything slower and they'd never move in fast enough to get hits before someone transfixes them.
As for the Stealth perks... Those would be a nightmare on these little devils. They're already tiny, like Victor, and move fast, but also having no TR or Red Stain will make them merciless ambushers in most maps, but even worse in the Indoor maps Like Lery's where it'll be hard enough just spotting them due to all the objects and walls, but give em Stealth too, and its gonna be one hell of a scary match. Now take my example above for survivors trying to counter these little guys, and put Insidious in the Mix... Suddenly you get an actual mindgame that insidious enables wherein the survivors are gonna keep their eyes on the dolls who still have a TR and Red Stain, but ignore the one that doesn't, and with insidious activating in 2 seconds... to me, that just sounds like fun, and actually makes insidious a useful tool instead of a campers modus operandi.
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@Chchchcheryl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1568879#Comment_1568879
This is one of the best chapter concepts I've read! The survivor perks particularly blow me away!!
My only thought is on perhaps how strong the killer's zoning would be, with everyone avoiding the dolls! And a game against a dolls killer trying to get their adept would be a nightmare because of the split punishment between looking at/for any advancing dolls, or looking at the gen to repair it more efficiently!
I Came up with this multi-killer swapping concept long before the devs released the twins, and considering how the Twins work vs the Dolls, I thought for a bit about whether or not the Dolls would have a major Hook Camping advantage... but then I remembered that
A. When a Doll knocks down a survivor the doll remains behind while the Spirit of Agnes controlling it picks up and hooks survivors before returning back to the last doll used
B. The dolls get stopped in place by a survivors gaze, so leaving a doll nearby a hook is kinda pointless since the moment you transfer to it, the rescuer and the unhooked survivor will just look at it and run away.
Otherwise, they are built for Zoning and Ambush setups, so using them to control an area of the map is pretty much how they work, but it shouldn't be broken due to their weakness. As for the Adept achievement Using Painful Neglect, I can see survivors habitually just focusing on the gen until they hear a heartbeat, then look around to see if a doll is near and try to freeze em in place before they attack. It should make things fun and intense, but again, not broken. TBH though, It's the Stealth killers who will benefit most from that perk, as refusing to look around while working a gen against a Ghost Face or Shape is just begging to get gen grabbed.
I'm really glad you liked the concept, I was beginning to think no one ever reads it anymore no matter how many times I link it in discussions like this one. 😊
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@Yamaoka said:
What's his reasoning behind that idea ?
One of the Primary issues with DS is that it presents killers with a No-Win Scenario:
Gates are Powered, Survivor with DS is unhooked and then downed again within 30 meters of an open gate, leaving the killer with 2 choices - Either let the survivor crawl out the gate, or take the DS, get stunned for 5 seconds and the survivor runs out the gate anyways.
If the survivor also brought in Unbreakable, Deliverance, and Soul Guard... it's a hands down No-Win scenario no matter what the killer does, unless of course they brought in a Mori, and the survivor with DS is on their final hook. DS alone has been presenting killers with this kind of No-Win scenario ever since it's release, and even after its 60 second timer rework, but still remains a thorn in killers sides because of how hopeless it feels trying to net a kill in the end game against it, especially with sweaty SWF teams.
By disabling DS once the gates are powered, the No-Win scenario safety net that DS presents would be gone, and rescuing hooked allies would require more strategy and teamwork. Regardless of whether or not DS gets changed this way, survivors still have a plethora of other 2nd chance perks and items that can turn the endgame into a no win scenario for killers, but the majority of them require teamwork to pull off effectively, unlike DS, which typically gives a lone survivor a free escape in the endgame if the killer doesn't have a Mori.
This is likely Otz's reasoning behind the idea, and in all honesty, it's not a bad idea when you know what it would do for balancing the endgame.
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
######### is wrong with people?
I know right? Complaining about a killers PoV when it clearly lets us appreciate what matters most to the killer... those sweet buns!
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@TheButcher6641 said:
I did not expect this but it's better than what I expected. And where's Kate on that list?
Here ya go:
Kate's Ravishing rump repeatedly taunts to the point that I can't wait to pick her up for a night of raucous ravaging!
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@Almo said:
Blight's FOV (field of view) is the same as everyone else's. It's the camera's position that's different.
Corrected it, sorry, had PoV in the post, but was tired when I originally posted it at around 1 am and wrote FoV in the header.
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@Greatamygdala said:
I wish I can bounce of clown's stomach
Perhaps he'll get a rush style attack that bounces survivors six to 8 meters away in the direction he pushes them? idk, but would be fun!
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@ChurchofPig said:
After all that time it took to get them out of being the weakest killer in the game you want to nerf The Twins? No.
They're STILL weak IMO, since they have to rely so heavily on either Slugging or Camping strategies in order to get the job done.
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He's consuming the cold dirt soaked in the blood of his prey in order to psyche himself up for the hunt! Either that or He suffers from Pica/geophagia (dirt eating disorder)... It's a complex issue, and you shouldn't make fun of him for something he needs psychological help for.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
How do players fall for this? You can hear him.
A Funny trick with Victor currently:
When you down and hook a survivor you have to travel about 20-30 meters away from the hook before you can unload Victor and start switching between him and Charlotte. This is an obvious attempt to prevent camping the hook by the devs, but there is a fatal flaw. While Charlotte can't switch to Victor while she's in range of a hooked survivor, She can switch to Victor and back anytime if He's within that range of a hooked survivor. So some have taken this into account, and after downing a survivor, they briefly switch to Victor, place him near the hook they intend for the downed survivor, switch back, hook the survivor, and leave Victor literally right next to the hook as both an early warning of rescue, and a switchable deterrent to would be rescuers since Charlotte can switch to Victor in only 0.25 seconds, but switching back to Charlotte from Victor takes about 3 seconds.
Eventually the devs will likely make it so that you can't switch at all between Victor and Charlotte if there is a hooked survivor near to either of them, but until then, this is highly exploitable, but given the twins currently underpowered limitations, and encouraged "Slug Based" mechanics... actually not a bad strategy... Just really frustrating to Survivors.
Also to answer OP's Question... No. As long as you aren't controlling Victor while he is next to a hooked survivor, your Chaser Emblem points don't go down. They only go down when you are actively controlling Victor within 16 meters of a hooked survivor.
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Survivors Unanimous NOED posts for all these years: "NOED'S OP AND HAS NO COUNTER, PLZ NERF!"
NOED Killers: "DO BONES!"
Survivors: "AIN'T NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT!"
Morgan Freeman Nature Documentary style Narration:
"And so the story goes... No matter how many incentives the Killers give survivors to do a secondary objective, nor how many tools the devs provide to aid them, the survivors overall laziness will always trump basic logic. Some, more evolved specimens may speak from time to time in an effort help them change their self destructive nature, and eventually make Hex perks worthless to the Killers, but as long as they refuse to listen to reason over their desire to do gens swiftly and efficiently, teams will suffer for it, and the Killers will continue to thrive off of their ignorance."
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Killers immune or partially immune to this strategy:
Doc (anti-action Shocks, anti-Healing at madness 3),
Leather Face (multi-down Power),
Pyramid Head (multi-down Power),
Oni (multi-down Power),
Plague (lesser extent and situational multi-down power with corrupt purge),
Trapper (trap interrupt and holding),
Hag and Pig (lesser extent Trap interrupting),
Clown (lesser extent Bottle interrupt).
Killer Perks that help against this strategy:
Save the Best for Last (Shorter timing between swings)
Sloppy Butcher (slower Healing/Recovery)
Forced Penance (broken Status applied to Protectors, Can't use Healing Items or make it back to healthy)
Franklin's Demise (dropped items can both be a distraction to the survivors and item pickup animations can interrupt their attempts to heal a downed ally)
Infectious Fright (Screams interrupt actions)
Agitation, Fire Up, Mad Grit (faster transport to hooks, faster Pickup and hooking animations, Anti Body Block)
While this survivor strategy is frustrating, it's not immune to many things. OP was unfortunate in this situation, and also neglected in picking up one of the survivors when they had 2 down. Still... This is all just Hindsight conjecture, and in no way a criticism to OP's killer or perk choices as this could've happened to any killer player and made them feel powerless in that situation. The game could use a few balance changes to prevent this kind of abuse from happening, Such as Survivors no longer being immune from pickup while getting healed, A small recovery delay after a survivor is knocked down that prevents immediate healing attempts, a 20-40 second Cooldown on Soul Guard, or Shortening the DW timer to 10 seconds.
Overall, this only highlights how creative players are when it comes to perk and game mechanics interactions in that: If something can be abused, players will find a way to exploit it every time. It sucks, but in general, whenever something gets abused or exploited and brought to attention by the community, the devs end up doing something about it eventually. So, Here's hoping that, while this is a highly situational and coordinated strategy that abuses the game mechanics... the devs will take this post into consideration, and make one of the suggested changes to prevent this kind of abuse in the future.
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@Eleghost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1827520#Comment_1827520
i've literally tried most of these at red ranks and still safety pipped consistently. i don't know if i'm just getting super bad survivors or not but 90% of the survivors i go against as killer in red ranks aren't exactly hard to kill.
Damn man... you even win with "Stereotypical Gamer Blight" and "Burger King Myers"...? Wow... you belong in red ranks then. Those builds are meant to hinder the killer to the point that they are practically easy mode for survivors. If you are winning with them, then only 2 conclusions can be made: Either you are a crazy good killer, or the Survivors you face on the regular, at the most competitive rank, are total ######### at playing this game. I'm actually betting the former here, because no matter how good you are at killer, against the top brass ranks, you simply can't win against them with that many nerfs to yourself.
To explain:
Burger King Myers-
Judith's Tombstone + Scratched Mirror. Basically you move much slower than the survivors, and Habe to rely entirely on Scratched Mirror's aura reading in order to get hits.
Stereotypical Gamer Blight-
Adrenaline Vile + Placebo Tablet. Think about the media's concept of the stereotypical gamer... they are Overweight, eating junk food, likely neck-bearded, and hooked on energy drinks... That's what these 2 add-ons do! They give Blight a boost in token regeneration, but give him almost no control over his turn rate, and half his movement speed while using his power.
If you can successfully win/safety pip, at the red ranks, on the regular, with builds like this... IMO... you belong there.
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@Clevite said:
Just some depipping coward too afraid to face their own ranks.
Don't worry, he will run into the same kinds of people doing their smurfing swf thing when he gets where he wants to be.
Used to be, I could De-pip/De-rank to the more comfortable ranks playing killer as long as I had my Mori's. I could 3k the survivors after 1 hook each, and let the 4th get the hatch, and at red ranks that was frowned upon and rewarded with a de-pip. Say what you want, but at least by playing this way I earned decent BP and by de-pipping, gained what i was truly after: the fun ranks of DbD. I'm not talking "fun" as in "easy", I'm talking "fun" in that its no longer a sweaty slog-fest against team after team of DbD's most competitive players and SWF groups. Alas... those days are over now that mori's always guarantee a black pip at the minimum.
So, unlike the Pussy tactics described by OP, and without resorting to truly Pathetic and Cowardly DC'ing, I've taken it upon myself to embrace the losing/meme builds and have fun with trying to beat survivors with them, until I de-pip to where I want to be. I'm talking "Burger King Myers", "3 Iri-Hatchet Limit Huntress", "1 Blink Nurse". "No insta down Bubba/Billy", "Scrapped Tape/Sniper Doc" and my favorite so far "Stereotypical Gamer Blight". These builds up the ante on the difficulty for the killers, and are fun as hell to play. They reward decent BP while have little success, and every game actually won with them feels well earned.
I take umbrage to your comment that killers like me are "depipping Cowards too afraid to face their own ranks." and ask you... If you play at the top ranks of this game, do you actually never feel frustrated or burned out by it?
As for Killer mains Like myself, Use these builds, have fun, and only get serious when you feel comfortable. This is a game, and you still have control over how and when you rank up.
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@HealsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1823410#Comment_1823410
I got you bro, run builds that aren't really throwing but are destined to fail. Burger King Myers, Bamboozle Nurse, using meme addons and perks.
Placebo tablet (slower rush) + Adrenaline Vial (little to no turn control), Blight it is then (the way I see it he's over weight but hooked on energy drinks. So... "Stereotypical Gamer" Blight?)... seriously, if you manage to down survivors with that combo, you really earned the win.
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Playing killer, I used to use Mori's to purposely De-rank, just 1 hook into mori up to 3 survivors and let the last one get the hatch, but now I can't do that because they changed mori's to work after 2 hooking survivors. So then I WAS using the Twins instead since they had problems gaining rank, but now they've gone and corrected that too with the recent hotfix... Sigh, I'm so sick of being stuck in the sweaty as hell red ranks, and now the only way out of them is to throw the game on purpose, which I think is a bannable offense(?)... just, damn... they removed all my tools for purposely failing to rank up while still playing the game... Guess I should just stop playing killer for a few months if I want to go back to the fun ranks.
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@luvcraft said:
AHA!!!! I was right!!
4.4.2 bugfixes:
- Fixed an issue that caused Victor to always count as being in close hook proximity for Chaser emblem scoring.
- Fixed an issue that caused survivors sacrificed while controlling Victor not to count for Devout emblem scoring.
Dangit... Now I can't reliably de-pip without resorting to going AFK. I used to use Mori's to purposely De-rank, just 1 hook into mori up to 3 survivors and let the last one get the hatch, but now I can't do that because they changed mori's to only work after 2 hooking survivors. So I WAS using the Twins instead since they had problems gaining rank, but now they've gone and corrected that too... Sigh, I'm so sick of being stuck in the sweaty as hell red ranks, and now the only way out of them is to throw the game on purpose, which I think is a bannable offense(?), not sure, just damn... they removed all my tools for purposely failing to rank up while still playing the game... Guess I should just stop playing for a few months if I want to go back to the fun ranks.
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Suggested changes:
Monstrous Shrine:
Buff the perk to - Survivors have 3 less escape attempts, and sacrifice progresses 25% faster when hooked in the basement.
Explanation - 25% of 2 mins is 30 seconds, or subtracting 15 seconds from each hook phase, adding in the fact that unless the survivors bring in Slippery Meat, they'll have to be rescued by their teammates... This makes being hooked in the basement a much more dire situation than current Monstrous Shrine. Sometime after Hag came out the devs doubled the hook time from 1 min to 2 meaning survivors used to only have 30 seconds per hook phase, And current monstrous Shrine was designed with these the old timings in mind. This suggestion is a sort of middle ground between how hooking used to be in the early days of the game, and how it is now, while only applying to the basement hooks, and finally updates Monstrous Shrine for the current 2 minute sacrifice timing.
Spies From the Shadows:
Overhaul the perk to - The Crows no longer respond to your presence, you see the auras of all crows within 36 meters of you, and disturbed crows are 100% louder to you within that range.
Explanation - This proposal gets rid of the confusing/annoying explosion sound notifications and replaces it by making the crows noisier so you can differentiate between them and a gen popping, you get no false signals since crows no longer respond to you, and they basically become little signal flares to tell you where survivors are. If this change were to happen, Spies would become an overall better tracking tool, and really fit the description of the perk which says: "The Crows found in the world can communicate directly with you." Besides, survivors still have 2 perks that defeat this: Calm Spirit, Urban Evasion, so it's not like this would be an un-counterable or broken change for the perk. If they also put some more crows in dead zones, that would be nice for helping this perk gain a better level of consistency and usefulness (Seriously, Rotten fields features no Scarecrows, but the crows completely avoid the corn field... #########?).
Surge:
Remove the cooldown and the Basic Attack requirement.
Explanation - Honestly this has been hotly debated in the forums since Surge came out because the fact remains that in order to activate Surge at all, you have to successfully down a survivor while within range of a gen that has progress on it. Chasing and downing a survivor takes enough time as it is, and the minor 8% damage Surge does if it activates is hardly consequential since it would take 12 survivor downs in order to achieve a stacked 96% damage to 1 or more gens. PGTW does 300% damage to gens in the same amount of hooks, and Ruin Does more damage per second without needing to down or hook a survivor. While this won't improve the overall damage Surge can do, removing the basic attack requirement will at least allow killers with damaging powers to get some use out of it, and removing the cooldown will allow it to become a slightly more consistent annoyance to survivors. It won't make it any more broken than any other existing gen defense perks, but at least it would be more useful.
Oppression:
Remove or significantly lower the cooldown.
Explanation - This perk doesn't even add extra damage to the gens it affects (unless survivors fail the "Difficult" skillcheck), only applies the base regression rate, and can randomly target gens that have 0 progress on them, but for some awful reason the devs decided that it was so powerful that it deserved DOUBLE the cooldown time (80 seconds) of Surge? At least Surge won't activate on gens that have 0 progress... Why does Oppression deserve such an excessive cooldown time? If it's because of the skillcheck, that's a laughable annoyance more than anything that could be considered a threat.
Fire Up:
Buff the perk- Increase it from 4% to 5%.
Explanation - This is a ridiculously underpowered perk because in order to gain any benefit from it, the killer has to sacrifice the objectives they are supposed to protect, in other words "lose the game". It's designed to give killers a slight edge in chases and hooking in order to try and protect the last gens from completing. The overall problem however is that 4% amounts to 12% when 3 gens are completed, and 20% when all 5 are done, meaning that they gain Brutal Strengths advantage on pallet breaking only after the survivors have completed all of the gens, and Bamboozles vault speed advantage when there is only 1 gen remaining. This doesn't help the killers in their desperate attempts to stop the final gens from completion, and by the time it's reached its maximum potential, the survivors are all rushing out the gate. However, if you bump it up just 1%... now we have a perk that gains Bamboozles advantage at 2 gens remaining, and Brutal Strengths at 1 gen remaining, with an added bonus to both if 0 gens remain. This would actually help the killers defend the final gens, and give them enough of a chase advantage if all gens are completed to try and stop the survivors from escaping. Suddenly this goes from an "underpowered" perk to a "Decent" one, and all it takes is a simple 1% boost in strength.
Insidious:
Overhaul the perk to - Reduces your Terror Radius and Red Stains Brightness by 5% for every 4/3/2 seconds you refrain from chasing or injuring survivors, upon reaching 100% reduction, you gain the Undetectable Status. Initiating a chase or injuring a survivor regains your TR and Red stain at a rate of 20% per second, once this has returned Insidious has a 40 second cooldown.
This perk has been a bane on the game since it came out since it seems to have been specifically designed for the sole purpose of camping hooks. With this change however, a killer gains half their TR for spending 10 seconds away from a chase or injuring a survivor, and becomes Undetectable at 20 seconds. This is mostly meant for anti stealth play, or for gaining a slight advantage in the early game wherein the killer is initially searching the map for survivors. Ultimately, it changes the perk from one encouraging camping, to one that rewards the killer with an advantage if the survivors are being too sneaky, and allows them to get the drop on survivors more often. The cooldown is necessary for this one because otherwise it could be abuseable. Aura reading perks such as OoO still see the killer just fine unless they obtain the Undetectable status, and Premonition or Spine chill still procs on stealth killers, so relying solely on the TR reduction is still no guarantee against those kinds of perks.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/213554/oppression-shouldnt-even-have-a-cooldown
Of course it should. It 3 gens without actually having to 3 gen
Please tell me you're being sarcastic @TheClownIsKing ... I like you... and yeah, about a week or 2 ago I admit I messed up on responding to another user in these forums, but I've always respected your opinions regardless, and we've had some decent debates between us. Please tell me you are just being sarcastic with this response, despite all of the evidence to the contrary in this post I and others have vehemently presented. I'm not asking you to stick up for my beliefs, to each his own, I'm just asking that, if you are going to present a contrary opinion, please explain it in better detail for us than this short 1 and a half sentence reply, so that we may argue/debate it in a civilized manner.
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@APoipleTurtle said:
I'm okay with Oppression having a cooldown (though I agree with everyone who's said that it should get a shorter one than it's current 80 seconds of downtime).
I actually think Oppression is otherwise in a pretty good spot and is mostly let down by how impotent base-game regression is.
I think it would be better if we saw some improvements to standard regression instead of lumping a bunch of buffs onto this perk. For example, I'd say a small amount of "instant regression" should occur on any gen kicked by the killer (maybe around 5%, a.k.a. 4 seconds of progress) and the regression speed should be bumped up by 100% (to -0.5 charges/sec up from -0.25 charges/sec).
I honestly don't see how Oppression is in a good spot or even why it needs a cooldown. If it applied a 5% regression to up to 3 generators after kicking 1, and only to generators that had progress on them, on top of giving survivors the Overcharge style skillcheck to deal with, Or if it duplicated the damage or effects of PGTW and Overcharge to every gen it affected, but had a chance of affecting gens that haven't been worked on... THEN I could totally see justifying the 80 second cooldown.
As it is however, it only applies base regression rate to a randomly selected 3 other generators, that includes gens that haven't even been touched/worked on. If any survivors are working on any of the gens selected at random by the perk, Surveillance doesn't trigger, even if the survivors fail the skillcheck, so as far as tracking goes, you are actually more likely to see survivors on gens with Discordance, or even Gear Head vs. the Surveillance + Oppression combo. Worse yet, is that because it only applies basic regression to those gens, it takes double the amount of time to bring a generator down in progress as Ruin does, which honestly feels far from "Oppressing". Against Ruin, if a survivor taps a regressing gen, they don't stop the regression until the totem is destroyed, and you can't say the same for Oppression at all.
Even if a Oppression had no cooldown, and a killer kicked a gen every 10 seconds, that means that a max of 4 possible survivors working on gens would get an annoying skillcheck to contend with every 10 seconds, and while that may be enough to beat the lowest level survivors who haven't mastered nailing skillchecks, for the other 3/4's of survivors ranging from Decent-Pro, it's so laughable, it doesn't even count as a "threat" as much as a "mild annoyance". For the completely new players, I see it less as punishment, and more as practice in order to get decent.
Overall, Much better gen regression perks exist, and they do much more damage while featuring 0 cooldown time. The only benefit Oppression has is the possibility of saving the killer time on kicking multiple gens themselves, which is honestly very similar to Surge, except at least Surge applies extra damage and a range requirement, whereas Oppression has neither, and for some godawful reason, perplexingly has DOUBLE the cooldown time as Surge...
How is this "in a pretty good spot" ?
Honeslty though, I agree with you that the Standard regression rate either needs to be improved, or the act of Kicking a Gen should apply a 10% regression to the affected gen immediately before starting the current standard regression rate. Otherwise, without a dependence on perks Like PGTW and Ruin, most killers can't even try to Compete with the efficiency Survivors currently have when repairing gens. 10 seconds of the current regression speed reduces a generators progress by 2.5 seconds of repair time or around 3%, whereas for a survivor 10 seconds of repair should increase a gens progress by 8%, but for some reason survivors repair that amount alone within 6 seconds, which tells me that it must be slightly higher than 1 charge per second. If the devs increased the base regression speed to where Ruin is at now, OR applied a 10% reduction per kick to a gen (the same damage applied when a survivor fails a skillcheck mind you), then things might be a bit more balanced towards the struggle between gen regression vs gen progress, but unless that happens, Oppression and perks like it will remain amongst the weakest perks in the killers roster... especially with such an excessive and unnecessary cooldown.
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@AggressiveFTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1818758#Comment_1818758
I agree with everything that you just said! Also, you forgot one condition that Surge has and that is that the gen within 32 meters of downing someone has to have progress on.
My bad, and that just makes the argument even more valid for removing the cooldown on Oppression, as until there are only 2 gens left to repair, or 4 total gens available on the map, Oppression, unlike Surge, can still randomly activate on gens that don't have any progress... Seriously, What the hell are the devs thinking? Are they afraid of the situation wherein a survivor kites a killer around a gen, and the killer keeps kicking it, while the survivor keeps tapping it causing all his teammates to suffer those mildly irritating skillchecks every 3-5 seconds while they repair gens? Because If that's all they are worried about... they need to play their game more.
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OP is right. Oppression starts basic regression speed or delivers an Overcharge style skillcheck on 3 more gens at random, which means it also has a tendency to pick gens that haven't even been worked on in the early game, and has the possibility of effecting all gens when there's only 2 gens remaining for the survivors to repair. Honestly, I've paired it with Surveillance and rarely ever see another gen on the map light up, because even if a survivor working on it fails that skillcheck, regression doesn't kick in and activate Surveillance's tracking... Either that, or Oppression keeps hitting gens that haven't been touched. Pairing Oppression with Hex: Huntress Lullaby can be good, but only as long as H:HL remains standing long enough to get 4 tokens, and the survivors aren't a little more than "decent" at nailing skillchecks.
Comparatively we have a hot topic on these forums that people have also asked the devs to remove the cooldown from: Surge
Surge can deliver an instant 8% loss of progress on any generator it hits when activating, but has so many conditions that its mostly useless:
- Must down a survivor
- Must be within 32 meters of a gen
- Surge must not be on cooldown
- Killer must down a survivor with a basic attack only.
Even if you took away the range restriction, Basic attack downing condition, and cooldown of Surge, the best it could do damage wise is 96% to all gens with progress on them... after 12 downs, and if the killer hooks after each down, then the killer has already won the game and doesn't even need the additional damage.
In direct contrast we have Ruin, which can reduce a gen that's been repaired for 40 seconds or is at 50% complete, to 0% in 80 seconds of being left alone. A feat of which the normal regression rate (the one Oppression applies) would take 160 seconds to accomplish. Then, there's also Pop Goes the Weasel, which if used after every hook performed in my Surge comparison, would do a total of 300% regression spread out among generators that the killer chooses to use it on. Both Ruin and PGTW have much fewer requirements for activation and do FAR more damage than Surge and Oppression, and neither of them even feature a cooldown. True, Ruin can be destroyed, but PGTW can't and all it requires is hooking survivors first.
Even if you could argue that the Damage Surge does is somehow even remotely comparable to Ruin or PGTW, the same can't be said at all for Oppression, and yet it has DOUBLE the cooldown time of Surge. Arguably, It's far easier for a killer to Kick gens than down/hook a survivor, (even easier for a survivor to tap a regressing gen though), but without any extra damage applied to the gens it affects, and only a mildly irritating skillcheck for survivors to deal with if they are working on said gens when Oppression activates... the 80 second cooldown is both excessive and pointless.
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"HA! I can see you looting chests practically anywhere on the map now! Sure, I gave you 2 more chests to loot... and with Appraisal, technically 1 of you can search all 5 chests for 8 items... and you have a higher chance of escaping if one or more of those items ends up being a key... but I can counter this by using a VERY RARE OFFERING... that, actually shows up less often than the ultra rare offering I get... man..... ######### Twins? Why would you teach me this?" - Every Other Killer
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@notanoobpat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804760#Comment_1804760
So just to be absolutely sure, this means an individual with the perk has to go through 3 SEPERATE Chests. They cannot use all tokens on one chest.
Yes. They can't use all tokens on 1 chest like they could on the PTB, they can only use 1 rummage token per open chest.
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Lemme do some maths here... Victor can hold a survivor in the locker for 10 seconds, but it takes Charlotte 3 seconds to wake up, so that gives you 7 seconds to reach the trapped survivor. 7 seconds x 4.6 m/s movement speed = 32.2 meters, So Unless you trap a survivor in a locker less than 33 meters away from Charlotte... Victors new ability is mostly useless.
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You can Open a chest for an Item, and rummage through an open chest 1 time for an item, for up to 3 more chests. What this means is that If there are 5 chests, and you are the only one unlocking/searching them, you can acquire a total of 8 items. However if someone else opened all of the chests, you can only rummage 1 time per chest for a maximum of 3 items. All total, if all 4 survivors brought in appraisal, with 5 chests, you get the 5 items from initial chest unlocking + 3 more per survivor x 4 survivors = 17 items. With Hoarder getting a hard nerf now, that means that you and your team will have ample chances of acquiring keys if you also bring in Plunderers, while you can't rummage through the same chest more than once, the overall amount of items your team can get is staggeringly higher... So have fun creating content showcasing this.
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Whispers is Consistent, but vague in survivor detection. Spies is spotty, but gives you direct knowledge of the survivors location. To me, Whispers is a superior of the 2 however, because of its consistency, whereas Spies relies heavily on the survivors disturbing crows, but the crows have a 4 meter activation range, and much fewer spawn points than they should. Whispers works very well on every map, while Spies is either your best friend or completely useless depending on the map you get.
Take Rotten Fields for example: Here's an entire Cornfield without a single scarecrow, and for some reason the crows all hang out on the edges of the map as far away from the corn as possible. In direct contrast to this there's Treatment Theater, an indoor map wherein with Spies you can't help but become overwhelmed with explosions until you start screaming "How'd all these freaking birds get in here?"
When It comes to tracking survivors, I find that consistency is overall much better than accuracy when comparing Whispers to Spies. I also Propose that Spies could use a small but nice overhaul to how it works to make it more appealing, and much less annoying:
Spies from the Shadows: The Crows no longer respond to your presence, you see the auras of all crows within 36 meters of you, and disturbed crows are 100% louder to you within that range.
This proposal gets rid of the confusing/annoying explosion sound notifications, you get no false signals since crows no longer respond to you, and they basically become little signal flares to tell you where survivors are. If this change were to happen, Spies would become a better tracking tool, and really fit the description of the perk which says: "The Crows found in the world can communicate directly with you."
If they also filled more dead zones (corn fields, etc.) with crows, that would also be nice for helping this perk gain a better level of consistency, but until then, Whispers beats Spies every time IMO.
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"HA! I can see you looting chests practically anywhere on the map now! Sure, I gave you 2 more chests to loot... and with Appraisal, technically 1 of you can search all 5 chests for 10 items... and you have a higher chance of escaping if one or more of those items ends up being a key... but I can counter this by using a VERY RARE OFFERING... that, actually shows up less often than the ultra rare offering I get... man..... ######### Twins? Why did you teach me this again?" - Every Other Killer
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795867#Comment_1795867
I've never heard a seasoned survivor player say that Blight needs a nerf...Like, ever. Its more often then not newer players that actually want him nerfed and even then its a very small minority.
well yeah, against a seasoned/veteran survivor player, a seasoned Blight player is a welcomed challenge, but against everyone else from noob - decent, a seasoned Blight is a terror that must be nerfed, because obviously... he's just too powerful! I probably shoudla put in New Survivor and Seasoned survivor perspectives as well...
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795881#Comment_1795881
I've tried turning up my sensitivity. During the lunge and rush it feels great.
But during the regular chase... i can barely tell where I'm aiming. If a survivor moves slightly to the left I might just end up all the way in Ohio
I believe Muscle memory is key when playing killers like Blight and Nurse, even if its just the muscles of your thumbs. I would say "keep practicing" and you'll get the hang of it, but I'd mostly be lying, as I'm not sure if the Thumbs can be as accurate in muscle memory as the wrist... But then again, I think back to when I played Halo 2 online in 2003 On PC, which was probably the first ever FPS that featured corss-play with Xbox players, and recall how while I often had the upper hand, I kept encountering console players that simply made me their ######### every time. So, I believe that with enough practice and muscle memory, no matter the perceived limitations, any player on either console or PC can beat anyone else. That's also how I currently feel about DbD's cross play feature. As a PC gamer, I've encountered many players on the console that are either easy to beat, or just rock me, no matter what role I'm playing.
If its a matter of Frames Per Second and Lag limitations though, I sympathize immensely, but when it comes to the controller vs mouse... I'm neutral in the debate, as I feel that getting a controller to match the speed of reflex the mouse provides PC players is simply a matter of sensitivity and muscle memory. While I can't be sure that 100 sensitivity of the controller can ever match the mouse entirely, it should at least provide enough of an advantage to compete with it for the most part.
So, if FPS is not your problem, then please work hard to get that muscle memory ingrained so you can have a better time playing killer. Yeah you'll suffer many losses as you adapt, but once you do... you will be a step above and beyond your console brethren, and above all, dominate them!
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795867#Comment_1795867
Well I have patience... maybe I too can become a god with Blight
But alas, I'm on console
Turn up the controller sensitivity to 100? Honestly Idk... But I feel for you. Whether it be because of FPS or Controller Issues, I can't help but mourn for my console brethren who don't know the joy of playing Blight without hinderances based on hardware limitations. Forgive me dude, for my previous comment. as it was made in ignorance of your plight. My heart weeps for you and your kind.
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Against Blight:
New Blight Player - "This is fun, exciting and invigorating, can't wait to face him again!"
Seasoned Blight Player - "OMG HE'S SO OP! NERF IT NOW! NERF IT INTO THE GROUND!"
Playing As Blight:
New Blight Player - "This sucks. He's so hard to get used to, and I can't hit anyone! Maybe I just should give up..."
Seasoned Blight Player - "THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK ANYMORE! I AM BLIGHT, THE DESTORYER OF WORLDS, WITNESS ME, WEEP AND DISPAIR!"
Basically... If killers have the patience to "git gud" as Blight, then he'd get nerfed... so lets be thankful that most players aren't that patient, for the sake of all of our fun.
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@Bard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795747#Comment_1795747
In modern times? Yes, absolutely.
Thing is, Adiris is from ancient Babylon.
Medicine at the time was pretty much "go pray at the temple". As far as she knew, doing rituals (for which she went as far as to cut off her own toe) was going to save people.
She never killed anybody; that was all a plague, a natural disaster. There wasn't exactly any such thing as an Epidemiologist (or medicine, or bathing, or regular hand-washing) back then, so even though her actions probably made things worse to an extent, those people were all screwed anyways, and the temple would have still been active regardless of Adiris.
She's not evil by a longshot. At worst, she's uneducated and a bit of a diva.
Uneducated or misguided as she was because of the era she lived in, the fact remains that she was begging her Gods for salvation, and only one actually answered her and gave her a new Devine purpose... The Entity. At which point, she'd have to believe that the deaths of everyone who worshipped her were all part of this "Gods" plan, and that she was doing the Entity's will without realizing it until she was rewarded. She definitely did much wrong by providing her followers false hope, but now she sees it as Devine providence, and is no longer going to try to save anyone.
She may have believed in life that she was doing nothing wrong, and the people who followed her also believed as much, but by remaining naïve, and refusing common sense in favor of following her beliefs despite evidence to the contrary, she doomed them all. If she had any common sense, and even cared enough for her followers over her own pride, she would've just told them all to stay home, while she prayed to the gods for their salvation. Instead she had them come to her to worship, gave them grandiose gestures of her faith in the gods, and lead them to their deaths with no proof that her or their prayers were being answered. If they had more common sense, and if she were less charismatic, they would have cast her out long before she banished herself. Ultimately, she is responsible for all of those deaths, and I believe that she knew it, which is probably why the Entity was drawn to her.
I'm not saying that she was Evil, just that she was too prideful.
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@leatherfav88 said:
If the killers came to a compromisse with the survivors to try and escape the entitys realm who would help? Hears my list of killers that would
Wraith- wraith was an innocent man before all this. Whale he may have killed people, it was not intentional. Deep down wraith has a heart of gold and would want to do the right thing.
Billy- billy my be a bite bitter twords humans, he would soon reliase that the survivors where not to blame for his suffering. Also i think mybe billy and claudette would form a friendship as claudettw is a nice person
Nurse- sally, like wraith is actully a good person who was damaged by the world.
Huntress- anna im sure deep down is very sweet and just had bad sercum stanses in her life.
Spirit- rin would most likley help the surviors for both to get revenge on her father and becuase she is a good person
Deathslinger- caleb most likely doesnt care for the others, he would only help just so he can get his revenge on henry.
I laugh at this list for the most part because there's really only 1 who might let survivors go IMO, and that is Wraith.
Philip Ojomo's Story reminds me of the saying "“We must all fear evil men. But, there is another kind of evil which we must fear most … and that is the indifference of good men.” - Monsignor from Boondock Saints. It's honestly hard to say if he was a good man in life, as he saw evil being done, but purposely turned a blind eye to it until it became known to him that he was an unwitting accomplice in it through his indifference, and took out his rage on the man who made him something so detestable. While his overall faith in humanity may be heavily diminished, he still freed one of his victims to be, before going after his boss. I see him as the most sympathetic killer who might falter if a survivor begged for mercy, and possibly remember his own humanity.
Otherwise the rest of the list is filled with unbridled hatred for humanity.
Billy - Mistreated and scorned by his parents, and if the saying is true "Mother/Father is god in the eyes of a child" then he likely has an extreme hatred for normal people with their normal faces and bodies. He would easily surmise that they would be just as disgusted by his appearance as his parents and god, and therefore have nothing but hatred for them in kind.
Nurse - Sally only worked at the asylum to make ends meet, not because she had faith in what the doctors were doing for the patients, or because she was a good person at heart, she was a desperate woman in mourning for her lost husband in an equally desperate situation. Being verbally, mentally, and physically abused for 20 years by inmates of the asylum and possibly even her employers left her with the disposition that the only real "cure" for all of this madness was death, and she swiftly tested this theory, by strangling over 50 people in the night while they slept. She has no sympathy or even empathy for the rest of humanity... this is possibly why she's attracted to Philip, who reminds her of how she used to be with her husband, because he still retains some of his humanity. (this ship is cannon)
Huntress - HELL NO! She's not "Sweet" deep down, she's a cold blooded predator to the bone! She hunts humans, steals their children, and lets them die because she doesn't know how to properly care for them, Which only frustrates her more as she believes they are the thing she's been missing since her own mothers passing. She's a woman with the mind of a child, needs of a survivor, and the skills of a professional apex predator. To her, the survivors are just the next "game" in a hunt, nothing more.
Spirit - While she is the one who actually did nothing wrong in life... Her view on humanity was completely inverted the moment her father took up the sword and mercilessly murdered her. She's literally holding onto a grudge for how she died, and in an endless loop of unbridled rage over her last moments of terror, loss, and thoughts of vengeance. Anyone who enters her domain are either those who mean to hurt her more, or representative of those who would not help her. While she hates her father the most, this rage cannot be satisfied by his death alone, when there's so many others to blame in her eyes.
Deathslinger - He hates humanity through and through, simple as that. He's only been used and abused by everyone he's ever known, and he's hunted the worst humanity has to offer. To him, all People exist until they eventually become perpetrators against the law which he'll be hired to hunt. This man is Bitter, takes pride in his work, and has been hired by the Entity to do what he does best, and he loves being appreciated for his fine work... every second of it.
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@Bard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795275#Comment_1795275
Plague did absolutely nothing wrong.
On the contrary, she gave her followers false hope. This is akin in the modern day to Parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated because they believe their children will grow stronger by fighting off the diseases naturally, Parents who treat their children with homeopathy because they don't trust modern medicine, Parents who starve their infants to death with a Vegan only diet because they feel its the morally right choice despite their Childs' nutritional needs, or People who refuse treatment for cancer because "God" will either see them through this or it's all part of "Gods Plan".
Misguided as she was, her Charismatic charm as a priestess only lured in more followers, spread the Plague even faster, and offered no real aid or salvation for her flock other than empty promises that they would survive as long as they had faith. True, this was the only life she knew, and by all accounts she truly believed that her gods would spare them, but out of her good intentions, all of them perished. At which point only The Entity actually answered her prayers, but not to save her, to prolong her suffering for the damage she did, and give her a new path which in her mind must've been: "Spread this glorious disease and punish the unworthy, so sayeth the Entity"
On top of this, upon her ascension to the entities Realm, She must have seen this as a reward for the damage she did by giving her previous followers False Hope... She's been gifted with immortality and the Devine purpose to go forth and do her masters will. She basically became the horseman of Pestilence, and because she knows the Entity is very real and has shown her its power, she is actually the LEAST likely to let the survivors escape, because she now sees her efforts to infect and sacrifice them to the entity as a way of HELPING them attain enlightenment, as well as appease her "true" god.
As a society, if a person dies in these kinds of situations, like a child who wasn't given proper medicine, or starved to death because of their parents beliefs, we punish them HARD for their negligence or ignorance, because neither is an excuse for the loss of a life. Adiris's crime against humanity was nothing different, but was made even worse by her willingness to sacrifice anyone and everyone who worshipped with her, no matter the cost, in an effort to prove she was right.
In essence... her Sin was Pride, and it resulted in a reward for her, but only her. Does that sound like someone who "did absolutely nothing wrong"?
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Plague. Sure she has a few hit detection bugs with her vomit, wherein you hit them with the vomit, see and hear the survivor react to it, and they don't actually get infected, but that's a minor enough peeve that's easily corrected compared to the benefits her power presents:
Firstly, Her base power gives her 1 shot downs on survivors who stay infected with a bonus benefit to her tracking since they become easier to hear and see, so chases with her often last half as long as they normally would with any other m1 killer.
Secondly, If they choose to cleanse, then they've just given her the best ranged attack in the game for a minute at a time that can be quickly chained for easy and fast downs against healthy survivors.
Finally, because she's the lowest picked killer in the game, Survivors often underestimate her or don't know how to play against her effectively, which allows any killer player who invests time into learning her to flat out dominate in most matches (even in red ranks).
Sure she could use a few minor tweaks/buffs/bug fixes, but overall she's a much more effective killer than most give her credit for. I get the impression that the majority of people who consider her a bad/low tier killer either don't know how to play her effectively, or have only gone up against players who don't know how to play her effectively.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Thank you so much.
And oh man, how exciting. Clowns getting at least one additional tonic, and by the looks of it, if gas clouds are mixed, it creates a third additional effect.
Ooh, my mind is racing with possibilities.
I personally thought the little "ping" sound and the sudden bottle in hand animation in the video indicating that he auto-reloaded was the more interesting part! I hate reloading when playing clown, it slows him way down, and is heavily time consuming, so being able to auto-reload in a chase without any slowdown would be an amazing benefit for him. Still, the gas changing color and possibly gaining another/different effect was also enticing.
Here's hoping these changes are either improved upon or remain as shown, even if we can only speculate what they are.
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@Pig_Is_Pog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1790446#Comment_1790446
I think it would have to be 1 or the other. imagine that on killers that can get easy downs like nurse. it would be absolutely disgusting.
I don't really see how. Imagine if said nurse hooked every survivor after downing them, the most activations of surge she would get is 12. Now factor in how many generators she is activating it on which will likely be only 1 or 2 at most on average. 8% damage per activation * 12 activations = 96% total initial regression, assuming its only activating on 1 gen at a time. Even if she still manages to hit 2 gens every time she activates Surge, the total damage would amount to 192%, but since its hitting 2 at a time, that's still only a maximum of 96% lost on each gen, and completely assuming that she's hitting the same 2 gens the entire match, in reality however, if she manages to hit 2 gens every time it won't be the same 2 that take the heat all game long.
For example If she was damaging only 1 gen at a time, and the affected gens were spread out between 3 gens each losing 8% per activation, she's achieved the 96% damage but only regressed 32% on each of those 3 gens at the time she achieves the final down in the game.
Now we factor in the time for the downs, and this is important... The average match takes 10 minutes. Getting 12 downs in 10 minutes would mean that she has to down 1 survivor every 50 seconds in order to keep the damage consistent and achieve that 96% damage spread out on a possible 5-7 generators. If she's downing 1 survivor every 50 seconds, that's 50 seconds of progress on 1 or more generators minus the 8% damage or +6 seconds added to repair time per activation on 1 or 2 of the 5-7 gens on average.
Even without cooldown, Basic attack requirement, or even the distance requirement, the fact remains: the killer STILL has to down a survivor to activate it. 12 downs doesn't even equal 100% progress lost on 1 generator, and by that time the nurse has already won the game, otherwise she'd have to do triple the downing without hooking, and in less time in order to achieve in 10 minutes what Ruin accomplishes in only 2.6 minutes without needing for you to down a survivor. Hell, if she were to use Pop goes the Weasel for each of those 12 hooks, she would have done 300% damage to a generator or spread out among any generators of her choice. That's 3 completed gens worth in damage! Yet Surge can't even pull off 1/3rd of that damage with 12 downs.
I could go on with more math over this, but Basically, It all amounts to the fact that no matter how fast she downs the survivors in a row, there's no way the damage done By Surge can compete with the progress gained by survivors. Ultimately, Surge is incredibly underpowered compared to other gen defense perks that are currently available, and would remain underpowered even if they removed all but the "Down a Survivor" requirement to activate it, because it simply can't apply its damage frequently enough to counter the progress survivors make in the same amount of time the killer achieves a down.
I wouldn't call that "Disgusting" I'd call that "Funny" because the killer apparently overvalued Surge and wasted a perk slot.
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I feel that the general consensus of Surge is that while it's a potentially useful perk, especially after the update that made it apply its 8% damage to already regressing gens, it still has too many conditions for activation that hinder it, and make it a poor choice when compared to other Gen defense perks. Currently its conditions are:
- Must down a survivor.
- down a survivor within 32 meters of a generator.
- down a survivor with a basic attack.
- it can only activate once every 40 seconds due to cooldown.
The problem with the First and Second conditions is that healthy survivors against a standard M1 killer will almost always get further than 32 meters from a generator after the first hit, especially on the medium-large maps where gens are spread out more, leaving the only killers who can down a healthy survivor quickly like Ghost Face and Shape as the ideal users.
The problem with the Third condition is that it just outright restricts the killers who can get any utility from it to killers who can down survivors quickly with a "basic attack". The only killers who can currently do this consistently are Ghost Face, Shape, and Plague since they all have a way to either expose the survivor, or put them in the broken state, which leaves them vulnerable to a 1-shot down. Compounding upon the problem with the first and second conditions, these 3 killers seem to be the only ones who can actually get any use out of Surge.
Finally the problem with the Fourth condition is that, while it can take a killer 40 seconds to down a survivor, good killers can start snowballing and down survivors 1 after the other within 20-30 seconds apart from each other. This means that for 2 downs back to back, Surge only activates 1 time, which feels wasteful considering the meager 8% damage it does to generators that would require 3 activations to even come close to equaling the damage Pop Goes the Weasel does in a single activation. Compounding this with with the first condition, that is potentially 3 activations of PGTW totaling to over 75% damage to generators vs. 24% damage spread out over a minimum 120 seconds.
The primary strengths of Surge are:
- it can affect multiple generators at a time per activation.
- it can damage generators that are already regressing.
- it saves the killer time on kicking gens themselves.
- it can pair with Surveillance to give the killer information on which gens are being worked on.
While these strengths are nice and amount to saving the killer precious time in regressing generators or finding survivors when paired with Surveillance, they also don't hold a candle to the sheer power you get from other generator regression perks like Pop Goes the Weasel, and Ruin, Both of which have far fewer conditions/restrictions for activation. This makes most of the community right to believe that Surge is far too underpowered to warrant having so many conditions for activation, because after all: Why would you equip a perk that only does 8% damage to a generator, Once every 40 seconds, only if you are close enough to said generator, on the condition that you down the survivor with a basic attack, Just for the reward of saving you time on kicking said generator, when you can otherwise down a survivor from any distance with any attack, and be rewarded with a 25% chunk of damage to the generator from PGTW?
Sadly we all know the reason why this perk has so many conditions for activation despite its meager damage: 3 gen situations. While designing Surge someone on the dev team must have said "but it can damage multiple gens at once, won't that make it OP in a 3 gen situation?"... I mean, Come on, you all know that's how that discussion HAD TO have gone down, and is definitely why they overcompensated for it with so many "conditions." Originally Surge was going to come out with 12% damage per activation, but apparently upon having this conversation, they overcompensated even further on this as well by knocking it down to 8%, but in all honesty, even with 12% damage per activation, it wouldn't even come close to slowing down survivors enough to stop them from defeating a 3 gen by split rushing when surge's primary condition for activation is: Down a survivor.
Bottom line, If they removed the "Down with Basic attack" requirement, and the Cooldown, Surge still wouldn't be as useful or as powerful as any of the other gen defense perks we currently have... but at least it would be more useful to more killers on the roster than it currently is.
TL;DR:
Surge has too many conditions for activation that restrict its usefulness to only 3 killers on the current roster who can get consistent use from it (Ghost Face, Shape, and Plague). For the meager reward of 8% damage and saving time on kicking gens yourself, there are better alternative perks available that do greater damage and have fewer restrictions which makes Surge "Trash tier" by comparison. I believe the sole reason Surge is so restricted is because the devs feared it's potential power in a 3 gen situation, but considering that its primary condition for activation is that you have to down a survivor, this logic is flawed. Even if they removed 2 of the conditions for activation, basic attack and cooldown, Surge still wouldn't be Overpowered in a 3 gen situation, or any situation honestly, but at least it would be useful to more killers on the roster.
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They are both utter garbage.
The Iridescent Pendant, which is the one that exposes a survivor for 12 seconds after they crush victor while you are controlling Charlotte, is supposed to discourage survivors from crushing him, but 12 seconds is such a short time that you either aren't going to be around when it happens, or aren't going to be able to catch them in time if they do it only 10 meters away from you. It's such a useless add-on, but I guess if you purposely bait them by popping out victor, chase them around or near charlotte and then switch back to her so that the survivor gets cocky and runs up to crush him right in front of her, then you might have a laugh. That's such a Meme Way of playing though, and will only work the first time you do it, especially when against an SWF team, otherwise the add-on isn't really worth the BP.
The Silencing Cloth actually has some potential as it allows you to stealthily switch back to Charlotte and potentially sneak up on survivors for a grab or hit, or at least it would... but the sound made when you switch between characters, and the glowing/shadow animation that shows you have switched or taken over the character completely blows this "surprise" potential. I thought the Devs learned from their previous mistakes with the PTB version of Ghost Face, that if you want to give a killer a Stealth advantage, you don't have them noisily announce it to everyone on the map. Sigh... such a waste.
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We used to have ultra rare Splinter offerings that allowed players to play DLC characters they hadn't bought just to try them out. Unfortunately that was phased out quite a while back despite how useful they could be for players who weren't sure whether or not they wanted to commit to buying or spending shards on a DLC character.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Do what I do, like I posted about a few weeks back: scroll past them.
At some point playing this game you get experienced enough that most of what’s complained about are really non issues. (Yeah, ok, I’ll admit even some of the things I rant about sometimes. It’s usually about venting more than anything).
You can plead all you like, there is always going to be a rotation/resurgence of Spirit OP, NOED broken, DS broken, “I lost therefore game is unbalanced, blah blah.
In fairness, we’ve all been there. We all go through our phase of “this is BS” and “that is BS”.
Now if a post title implies its aboyt any of this ad nauseam crap, i just scroll past.
Its much healthier to ignore it.
That's the problem... I can't. Trust me, I'd love to keep ignoring the asinine posts, the repeats of already discussed opinions, and the posts that are meant to bait or troll us, but I keep clicking none the less. Most I don't respond to, but only because I have nothing nice to say, and in the rare instances where something rubs me wrong, I just want to scream at them! Sadly sometimes I do... and for that, when it happens, I'm very sorry... but can't, in my mind, for even a moment, claim that I'm not justified. This is a toxic side of me that is always on the verge of releasing while browsing these posts, and I hate letting it free. Albeit Rare, I'm certain there are many others who hate to see this side of me as well.
This "Plea" I've made has honestly less to do with improving the forums... which if abided, it would... and is much more about me keeping my vicious side in check.
For example: I was raised in a military family, and Negative re-enforcement was all I ever knew until college, so when I see a whining post, I can't help but initially feel that they need to "Grow up. Stop Bitching!"
This is apparently not an acceptable approach to commenting here, and try as I might, I still find myself utterly perturbed and infuriated by what feels like 80% of the posts here.
Sigh, I KNOW this post won't change anything, but I hope and pray that enough people will understand that making posts that amount to nothing more than asinine comments or complaining, is unhealthy for the community, and really pisses people like me off. I want to be a nice guy and help those who are having issues with this game, but... I can't if all I ever see is posts re-iterating other posts in weak and unapologetically biased ways. I want to stay here and be a supportive member, but c'mon guys... all you're making me want to do is tear into you, which I Sadly know the Mods won't put up with, no matter how much you deserve it!
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@TicTac said:
Most of the guys who are only whining, think they have a valid argument. They will read this post and agree with it because they think its not about them.
There are posts in this forum, where you should be 100% sure its a troll. But im not sure anymore. Either they are commiting to trolling way to much or they are serious.
But for everyone who wants that this forum has a impact. Try reading it with the mindset you are a one of the devs. After doing this i have huge respect for every dev who is active in this forum.
A good overall message, and aside from some minor corrections to your wording, I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Looking forward to the "no more red stain" and "no more Deep Wounds" experiments myself. Those would be fun as hell to play.
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It takes 8 seconds to crush victor while he's riding a survivor. Even if the goal is to make it so that the survivor with victor only reveals the survivors around them... why allow them to keep victor (the killers power) for 45 seconds before revealing his aura and allowing the killer to recall him?
If anything, his aura should be revealed to Charlotte no matter the moment he's holding a locker shut, or riding a survivor. If they want to incentivize survivors to rid themselves of him, he needs to give Charlotte that information from the moment he attaches himself to them on top of restricting the survivor from doing objectives or revealing their teammate's locations. Why the actual F are they delaying this incentive to 45 seconds?
Also, Victor should hold a locker closed indefinitely, but when he does the aura of the locker should be revealed to both the killer and the other survivors on their team in order to create a "Race against time" minigame, wherein either a survivor rescues their ally in the locker, or Charlotte Claims the present Victor just giftwrapped for her. This whole "Victor will be able to interact with lockers and hold a Survivor inside for a short amount of time." idea is pathetic, encourages no teamwork dynamic from the survivors, as well as ensures that the killer will only want to use Victor as long as he remains within a close distance.
I'm likewise concerned about what Victors movement speed will be when he has a pounce charged and ready, because if it's anything less than 4.2 m/s, he'll still be useless against a survivor kiting him around an object.
Overall, I've decided that I'm not getting this killer unless they fix them decently by the mid chapter, otherwise, its a horrible waste of time/money.
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@DarKaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766911#Comment_1766911
Inb4 those people go "TWiXT is unfun and boring in forums! Why should I be expected to provide valid arguments and cite my experience for something when I just want to bully Survivors/Killers?!1?1!!1?!1?1!??1!"
Surely, thou jests.
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@DarKaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766872#Comment_1766872
This is also true, though I do have some sentiment with people who say that X is unfun/boring.
I see like, 18 second chance perks in a match consistently, and I find that unfun and boring simply because it removes any agency on my part when I get DS'd into a pallet stun into a Head-On from some guy behind me that I couldn't even turn to look at.
It's like, "This is fine. I didn't want to play the video games anyway.".
It's the same feeling I get in For Honor a lot of times when enemies can counter everyhing you do because they have split-second reaction times that allow them to counter everything and just hit you constantly without giving you any room to breathe.
I'm not saying that all "x is unfun/boring" posts are bad... just that the majority of them happen to be. If there is a genuine concern that needs to be discussed based upon experience and forethought, then I'll gladly either agree or debate it. Unfortunately, this isn't often the case. Most Posters/commenters would rather ######### and moan about anything that doesn't make things easier for their side, and are by nature heavily biased.
If you make a fair point about something that is affecting the game, then I'll agree/debate it, If not, then I have no qualms with tearing you down over it.
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Meh... While it is slower to heal with than finding another survivor to help or using a medkit, Those aren't always available. While I agree that I have also been infuriated by survivors Self Caring next to a gen I'm working on, or preferring it to getting healed by me, I can't deny that self care has allowed me to rescue teammates or pull off things that would've otherwise been impossible without it. To me its one of those Niche perks that, when used correctly, can mean the difference between winning and losing, but when used incorrectly, is just stupid. I don't begrudge people for bringing it in or using it, but for the love of... if someone is near you and can heal you quicker or if you have an un-depleted medkit, ######### ing use it/them for crying out loud.
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@DarKaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766853#Comment_1766853
This pretty much sums up DBD, really. However, something I will note is that as a Killer, you rely on Survivor mistakes just as much as your own skill.
If a team of Survivors never screw up ONCE, there's nothing you can do about that. Just work with what you got, really.
It's more than likely you'll score a 2k if you're good, unless the Survivors in question are a SWF, in which case you're probably boned.
Another thing I've said repeatedly in these forums: "Survivors never hold back on their builds or tactics, so why should you?"
While What you've said is true that there's very little even a good killer can do against the best survivor teams, that just means that there's literally no reason for a killer player to hold back, no matter who they are up against. "School of Hard Knocks" rings both ways, and I never begrudge any killer or survivor for bringing in anything that gives them an advantage against me, because, If anything, I relish the challenge. Yet often times I come to these forums and find that others simply aren't like me. They complain that killers/perks/items/survivors they face are "Boring" or "Unfun" which I've translated to = "challenging", and they want x to be reworked so that they're "Exciting/Fun" = "Easy" and honestly, I'm sick of it. Against a fully decked out SWF team with all meta perks and items, I'm thrilled to bring my all against them, and win or lose, I take it as a learning experience and proudly give them a "GG" in the endgame chat. It may be too much for me to expect the same respect back from them, but at least I won't walk away from it saying that I didn't give it my all. If they begrudge me for that, then that's just bad sportsmanship in my book.
"School of hard knocks" is my creed, and if you can't put up... then shut up.
Edit: Also I'm a competitive sadist who gets off when other players vomit up insults on their keyboards when I beat them (as it means I've effectively bruised their egos and hurt them emotionally irl)... but that's another discussion entirely.