TWiXT
TWiXT
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766786#Comment_1766786
Well, imagine if you had someone who was bullied, or who was anxious and depressed, and you came up to them and started calling them weak, and to shut up or whatever else- that's not going to have any positive effect on like 99% of people.
(That is NOT a comment on this scenario, only on that idea of thinking I want to stress that part. It's merely an ideation for the sake of explanation and is NOT me trying to draw parallels. )
Anyways, while I don't agree with a lot of that, let's just focus on the last parts of what you said cause I feel it's a lot easier for us to get along then. I'm appreciative of the support and I'll try and update this thread tomorrow after some matches!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766796#Comment_1766796
Yeah, I do something similar with Demogorgon sometimes; especially with deer lung. I'll give it a try if I ever get them unlocked for him. I have almost a mil BP, I'll dump them in and give it a try tomorrow if all goes well with the blood web.
If you check my profile and previous comments, especially concerning players asking for help, you'll likely find I'm a pretty nice guy. However, I don't put up with posters/players who just complain about perceived wrongs with DbD based upon inexperience or misunderstandings of the games mechanics. I Hate when someone comes in posting about how unfair the DC penalty is, how "x killer has no counter-play, plz nerf", or "x is unplayable because..." Those all rub me the wrong way, and I admit, I'm quick to berate someone over it.
The way I see it though, if you can't put up with some negative criticism in a multiplayer environment, then why are you even playing? I don't mean to be toxic, but if you're not strong enough to put up, you're better off shutting up and leaving these forums for players with more pressing concerns. Nothing in your initial post showed any signs of you being bullied, that you were anxious, or depressed, and just came across to me as another post among the plethora of others that I hate: "x is unplayable because..."
I may be an old time jaded player with a short fuse, but that doesn't make my stance against others who only come to these forums to whine/complain out of inexperience or entitlement any less relevant. To quote a previous comment I've made in another post, DbD is a:
"School of hard knocks"... this is the creed of all multiplayer games. It's not pleasant, and often infuriating, but as long as you stick to it and do your best to adapt and power through all the BS until you get decent, you'll have fun again. Killers are difficult to get used to, but also highly rewarding, and the survivors know how vicious decent/pro players are with them, so when they encounter an inexperienced Killer and have an Easy time for once against them, they tend to kick your ass and gloat about it. Again, this is infuriating, but it's all part of the multiplayer experience, so try not to take any of their bullying or insults too seriously, because if you just persevere, you're gonna get good with the killers you play, and they're gonna fear going up against you.
Up until then it's as I've said... "school of hard knocks" just take each loss as a learning experience, and adapt as best you can. Once you get decent, it'll feel well earned and you'll forget about posting this on the forums as it won't even matter anymore."
Perhaps I should have led with that statement, but damn... your posts wording just rubbed me the wrong way, and I apologize for misunderstanding it as a complaint vs. what it actually is: a cry for support/help.
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Plague:
I used to think she was the weakest killer because, like a "one-track minded ignoramus", I didn't like the idea that the survivors were "completely in control of her power". I kept thinking the only thing good about her was when she gets Corrupt Purge, which is the strongest ranged damage in the game IMO, but of course she was frequently denied that power if the survivors refused to cleanse, which felt stupid to me at the time.
However, after deciding to bite the bullet and play her for a while I came to realize how wrong I had been. While I was partially correct about Corrupt Purge and its limitations, I had been completely ignoring the power of her Vile Purge. People often refer to it as having a game long NOED effect, or perma-EW3 Myers, but I find it to be much better than those things. Not only does it put all the survivors in a 1 hit down state, It also makes them easier to see, and easier to hear while simultaneously defeating Iron Will + all Healing perks and items. This results in chases that take half as long as any other M1 killer would, and gives you great audio and visual tracking! On top of that, If the survivors do choose to cleanse instead of Toughing it out while broken and easier to track, I get the best ranged damage in the game and can make them suffer even more with it.
Overall, I ended up making a favorite build that puts survivors between a "Rock and a Hard Place" and have been dominating with her consistently even at the red ranks. She's become my go-to girl to main because she's actually very powerful if you know how to use her, and constantly underestimated by survivors because of how infrequently they encounter her. I regret that I totally misunderstood her (feel like such an idiot for not noticing these things about her sooner), and have become a ruthless and proud Plague main ever since. 😁🤮
****
For those wondering, here's my "Rock and Hard Place" build:
Dying Light, Thanatophobia, Surge + Surveillance/Pop Goes the Weasel/BBQ/Ruin.
Don't cleanse = suffer massive gen slowdown, Cleanse = Best ranged damage in the game. The trick to getting it to work well is to only hook the obsession twice, and keep them slugged as frequently as possible for the remainder of the game because They're the only survivor immune to the DL debuff, so keep them slugged and don't kill them until you've already killed at least 1 other survivor. At full Thanatophobia debuff + 4 stacks of DL, survivors suffer a whopping 32% slowdown in gen repair speed! On top of slowing repair progress to a crawl, This makes repairing the 8% damage caused by Surge to go up from 6 seconds to around 10.5 seconds, and it gets worse with each stack of DL you gain; I think the max slowdown I've achieved with all 4 still alive has been around 6 stacks, which made Surge damage take around 14 seconds for a survivor to repair. Typically survivors realize they are getting nowhere fast when there are 3-2 gens left and panic cleanse in order to try and defeat the slowdown, at which point you gain the best ranged damage in the game and mop the floor with them. A nice bonus is that because Vile Purge breaks the survivors, the obsession doesn't get to use the 33% healing benefit from DL, which actually makes it a worthwhile perk on the Plague.
Here's a sample or "Proof" of its viability, survivors in the chat didn't like the build (I took this screenshot a week ago):
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766722#Comment_1766722
I mean, I fail to see how just coming in and making assumptions, putting me down, and insulting my character because I had a hard time is far from motivating in any way shape or form. All it does is associate that type of thing with the character or even the game; which is basically what this topic was actually about.
I already mentioned a couple times I was probably going to play him a few more times. Well I was, but I ended up having to spend all my time defending myself here to you; when I should have just ignored it and played some more- now it will have to wait until tomorrow evening.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766723#Comment_1766723
Tbh it was mostly the survivor bullying and post game insults for not doing well I think that left such a sour taste in my mouth. I used to play a lot but I took a break for a bout the past few character release and I've only been back for about a few weeks again. However it's been a pretty slippery slope of reminding me why I stopped playing in the first place. I don't mind difficult characters, it's why I love Nurse so much, high risk high reward is actually the least stressful for me genuinely, I don't feel as bad about failure then tbh.
He definitely seems like he could be really good, and we definitely needed more characters that had high skill ceilings for performance potential, they tend to be my favorite killers so it probably will be worth it to keep at it with him.
Word your post more carefully next time then. If you had come in and posted: "wow, my first game as Blight sucked, why do you guys like him?... Any advice?" I would've gladly jumped on with everyone else to give you advice and motivate you in a more pleasant way. Instead you put in: "SO I TRIED TO PLAY BLIGHT ONE TIME ...and honestly now I am terrified to even bother trying again. That was just a nightmare of a time dear god. People seem to really like him, not saying anything about his balance, just that was not an enjoyable experience at all."
How can I not see that as anything other than a complaint about the character, and an unwillingness to persevere because it translated to "it's too hard" in my brain? I'm a Long time Multiplayer gamer, and killer main in DbD, and that just made me want to tell you to "to stop whining, and man/woman up!" While that was undoubtedly a negative way to motivate someone, it still gets results: They either shut up, or put up. Belittling you, and attacking your character, was totally intentional because you would either fight back, or give up... and being that you have previously mentioned that you're decent with killers, I put my bets on you fighting back, as any true killer main would.
Was it unpleasant of me? Yes. Did I hurt your feelings? Probably. Are you now determined to take on the challenge and prove you aren't what I claimed? That's up to you!
Now get out there, Persevere, and start kicking ass as Blight. We're all rooting for you, whether it seems like it or not.
I come from a military family, and negative reinforcement is all I've ever known, so I'm sorry if what I said was hurtful, but in my experience... it gets results. I honestly can't understand how anyone plays a multiplayer game without it.
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"School of hard knocks" this is the creed of all multiplayer games. It's not pleasant, and often infuriating, but as long as you stick to it and do your best to adapt and power through all the BS until you get decent, you'll have fun again. Killers are difficult to get used to, but also highly rewarding, and the survivors know how vicious decent/pro players are with them, so when they encounter an inexperienced Killer and have an Easy time for once against them, they tend to gloat. Again, this is infuriating, but it's all part of the multiplayer experience, so try not to take any of their bullying or insults too seriously, because if you just persevere, you're gonna get good with the killers you play, and they're gonna fear going up against you.
Up until then it's as I've said... "school of hard knocks" just take each loss as a learning experience, and adapt as best you can. Once you get decent, it'll feel well earned and you'll forget about posting this on the forums as it won't even matter anymore.
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@Ghoste said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766531#Comment_1766531
Just to clear up some math here, the standard failed skill check regression is 8 seconds of a gen. Technician adds 2.4 seconds.
Ok, still, Hardly noticeable in my book.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766687#Comment_1766687
I never whined about Blight himself dude, please just stop already.
Your initial post comes across as a complaint/whining about the character. Sigh... I haven't met a single killer player out there that outright Dominates in their first game learning one of the killer characters, and you being "Terrified to to even bother trying again" is a statement that just sounds like pathetic whining.
Honestly, the moment I read it I thought "wow... really?" and then thought of all of those overentitled brats that complained when Demons Souls came out because "Its too HARD" and wouldn't admit that they had been coddled up until that point by games that reward them immediately for much less effort, and were just bitching about actually having a challenge for once. AKA: the "Reward me NOW" kid gamers.
That Rubbed me wrong, because anyone who plays killer in DbD will tell you that Perseverance is the key to getting good with any killer, and your unwillingness to persevere, or even attempt another match with Blight because of 1 bad match, just sounded like good ol' entitled whining to me.
Part of me wanted to Shout at you "DEAL WITH IT!" but the more somber side of me decided simply berating you for not trying and comparing you to weaker willed players might actually encourage you to do better. So tell me... Are you going to give him another try, or stand by your post and just "give up"?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766672#Comment_1766672
This is funny, because this is about the kind of comment I expected. Why it's funny though, is because Nurse is second to my main (DemoGorgon) and I have at least a couple hundred hours as her alone.
So you DO have the patience to learn a killer that takes 20+ hours to get good with... but still whine about Blight?
Sigh... I'm just having a hard time comprehending the complaint even more now. Blight takes way less time to learn than Nurse or even Demogorgon... 1 Match with Blight is likely to fail, obviously, but if you just put in 15 matches with him, I promise you'll change your mind.
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766672#Comment_1766672
They're just a first time player of blight man... jesus you need to calm down.
edited my comment... sorry, the initial complaint against Blight really rubbed me the wrong way.
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The problem with being impatient is that, Once you DO get good with Nurse, you become nigh unstoppable. Same can be said for Blight, except unlike Nurse, I got Decent with him after only 5 matches, and Good with him after about 15, which all totaled to about 3 hours of playtime.
Seriously? 1 Match as Blight and you're just gonna give up? sigh...
Sorry for not being supportive, but damn... the post really rubbed me the wrong way.
Seriously... 1 match isn't enough to learn much less judge a killer. Try a few more rounds, and you'll likely find out why we love Blight.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
Last I checked, Technician isn't working properly just like Prove Thyself. Technician should be reducing the noise made by your repairs as well as their hearing distance, but the new animations caused this to not work.
Also, for those wondering about Prove Thyself, it doesn't return the full 15% lost in CO-OP actions. Since the change, it has only been returning 12.75%.
This is sad... I'm sad now... this means that technician wasn't making me a "gen ninja" after all, and the killers that shot by me were either just idiots or didn't have headphones.😥
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Has Anyone else also Iterated Knowledge Negating Empathy's Worthy Inclusion in good builds Today? i think it would be a CAPITOL offense of them to not include it in the list of perks like technician that shouldn't be overlooked, and instead deserve praise for being so well designed. 😘
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HagBubba: Rev up your chainsaw and teleport to a triggered trap to unleash Multi-hit insta-down hell upon the survivors right after they unhooked their teammate!
GOOD... GOD... THAT'S EVIL!
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766531#Comment_1766531
A perfect example happened in the very last match I just got out of minutes ago.
Spawned in Haddonfield, in that basement that has the double staircase and gen. I tapped the gen to test if Ruin was in play. Technician immediately prevents a noise notification because a skill check had come up immediately upon tapping the gen. I also shortly afterward hear the TR as well.
I calmly walk to the back where the lockers are, and the TR fades away, presumably because they couldn’t hear any repair activity on the gen.
That would have otherwise been a terrible way to start the match. Technician gave me a HUGE sigh of relief in that instance.
y'know @TheClownIsKing , I like you. You remind me of someone else who sadly left these forums named DudeDelicious, who I used to agree with pretty regularly, and was also this forums resident Clown expert. With him gone, you'll probably take that mantle.
As for Technician, even before it's change, it was a huge help to me when I decided to start playing survivor, and while I now feel pretty decent at the survivor role, I still think the changes they've made to Technician make it worth the perk slot in every way for both new and seasoned survivor players. Even if you are a seasoned player who nails their skillchecks every time in regular play, there come times where something unexpected happens and you're going to miss one, but New Technician is there for you like "hey man, it's all good, I got you covered." It's just a damn useful perk! Meta worthy? probably not, but still you can't go wrong picking it, which I feel is how the majority of perks should be designed.
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@Bootlegmoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766479#Comment_1766479
So instead of 50/50 is it now 100% no check but extra regression?
TBH, the "extra regression" amounts to about 0.5 second added on to the time it normally takes to make up for a standard failed skill check, which is normally around 7.5 seconds, so its barely even noticeable. Whereas the lack of gen explosion and audio notification to the killer for failing the skill check is Hella Noticeable. If I'm playing survivor on a friday or saturday night with my friends and we're just goofing off while innebriated, Technician saves our asses every time, Otherwise if playing sober, its still very handy in the situations OP mentioned, as well as against Overcharge, Unnerving Presence, Lullaby, etc, and a FANTASTIC tool for new survivors who need to get used to nailing skillchecks. Overall, the perk is a win/win in any build, with a downside that is barely even worth mentioning.
Oh yeah, and it still quiets the sounds you make when repairing a gen by making them audible in only 8 meters of it instead of the normal 16... I've had so many killers completely overshoot me while repairing a gen because they didn't know I was there and repairing it. So, "Gen ninja" became an endearing term among my friends.
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Cosmetic
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@HellDescent said:
Remember how legion used to chase you when he was released? The same thing will happen with bloodlust
Again, I feel I should re-iterate why there's no comparison between this change and "Old Legions" mechanics:
Old legion could strike a survivor twice with DW, and shorten the timer to 10 seconds, of which still ticked down while a survivor was moving and not in a chase. Basically, Old legion could ensure the survivor would be downed in 10 seconds while moonwalk-chasing a survivor whether they struck them down or let DW do it.
With this change to bloodlust, For a killer to try and abuse it in a chase, the killer would have to avoid looking at a survivor for 15 seconds while chasing them for the meager reward of a 0.2 m/s movement speed boost that goes away as soon as they either see the survivor or attempt an attack. Any killer trying to abuse this in a chase, instead of simply chasing and attacking the survivor in less than 15 seconds, is an idiot.
Unlike with old legion, this doesn't guarantee a down, and trying to abuse it only results in losing sight of your target, leaving yourself open to be pallet stunned, and extending the chase by 15 seconds; a Chase which otherwise could've been won in much less time by simply keeping your eye on the target, and mind-gaming them efficiently.
This in no way compares to Old Legions game mechanics, and won't reward killers in a chase.
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@Yords said:
It doesn't sound too bad, except for the fact that killers could easily abuse this. How you ask? Well, by simply looking down or around as to not start a chase with a survivor while still gaining distance on them.
They still lose it once they start a chase or hit a survivor, and lets be honest, if a killer tries to abuse it in a chase by looking down or away from the survivor to end the chase, they've just extended said chase by 15 seconds if they want to gain that .2 m/s edge, which is a horrible waste of time for killers, since most can down a survivor with a follow up hit in less time than that.
Killers are all about time management. In the case of old legion, the Deep Wounds timer ticking down was a threat because they could shorten the timer per hit, and just wait for the survivor to go down, but this change is the opposite of that. It stops as soon as the killer initiates a chase or attempts an attack, they don't even have to hit the survivor to lose it, After which, if they try to abuse it by taking their eyes off of the target and following scratch marks, they still have to wait 15 seconds to gain the speed boost which is immediately lost the moment they look at the survivor. I honestly don't see how this can be abused, especially if the survivor sees the killer trying to pull this stunt and drops a pallet on them while their back is turned or they're looking at the floor.
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@White_Owl said:
I like the idea. My only doubt is how it should interact with abilities, because if bloodlust could be gained when using them high mobility killers would be even better at that, but if powers deactivated bloodlust some killers (like Pig) would be penalized.
Not necessarily, High mobility killers have a knack for using their mobility to find survivors sooner than the average M1 standard-low mobility killers. Think about it, how many Billy's, Nurses, Spirits, or Blights have a hard time applying early game gen pressure, or initiating a chase? On top of that, Even if they do gain bloodlust, It's gone as soon as they either initiate a chase or attempt an attack, so they don't gain any further benefit from it towards their mobility.
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@TWiXT said:
This is an updated version of a concept I came up with over a year ago as an original killer alternative for those out there wanting to see a doll killer like Chucky in the game. I have Many changes but the most notable are the refined backstory, and reworks to the perks and power for better balance in today's current game environment and meta. I hope you guys like it.
The Dolls
Appearance/Mannerism: Alabaster porcelain Dolls dressed in different era or environment specific outfits of both male and female varieties. The Dolls move at 6m/s, and have a 24 meter Terror radius
Back-story:
Agnes Cartwright was a resident of a small town a few Km outside of Suffolk England from 1896-1923. In her early years she was seen as a peculiar child to others in the schoolhouse, but none could’ve known what torture she endured at her secluded home outside of town under the care of her vicious, and self righteous stepmother. Her father had passed away when she was 4 years old, leaving her at the mercy of her cruel and mentally unstable stepmom who demanded she come home immediately from school with no guests allowed, and regularly abused her verbally, physically and mentally over petty reasons like coming home 20 seconds late, talking out of turn or behaving childishly. Locked in the basement for hours, barely fed, and disallowed contact with others outside of school led Agnes to take comfort in the only fragment of her loving father she had: a large sized porcelain doll named Lucy, whom she regularly whispered to as her only friend. Eventually mercury poisoning from her stepmothers job as a Hatter made her too unpredictable, difficult to understand, and sickly to the point of being bedridden. Those last months of her stepmother’s life were the happiest Agnes had been in a long time. Agnes learned to use the machine in her stepmoms sewing room to make new outfits for Lucy, but the cracks and wear on Lucy were getting too problematic and Agnes could hear Lucy crying out to make her better. Her eye’s had fallen out and broken, and Agnes desperately needed new ones to replace them. At 13 years old Agnes trekked the distance into Suffolk to learn everything she could about doll-making and although a social odd-ball, one shop owner took pity and started her off on a trial basis as an intern, but quickly came to realize that Agnes had a gift for fine details as well as clever innovation with all she was taught. After learning enough about doll repair from the shop’s owner, Agnes slowly restored Lucy while tending to her sick stepmothers gibberish orders and violent outbursts, often Agnes had to calm her down with medicated powder dissolved in boiling water and inhaled through the steam as the doctor ordered. While the medication worked well, it left her stepmother in a confused stupor unable to remember things or accurately process new information, which was fine for Agnes since it ensured a lower chance of interruptions while she worked on Lucy. The biggest problem was always with the eyes, as nothing she tried made Lucy happy. While tending to her bedridden stepmother Lucy spoke out to Agnes about how pretty her stepmothers’ eyes were, and what a shame it would be if she carried them to the grave to rot with her. Agnes felt her blood run cold as the epiphany occurred to her, and she collected her tools for the task ahead.
It was harder than she was ready for, and even though her step mother had to be strapped down to the bed for her own good so she could be medicated without resistance, she still struggled against Agnes’s efforts and all the blood made her slippery and hard to hold down, but after enough bleeding and slipping into shock, her stepmother stopped moving and she extracted the eyes with care. Agnes gently removed the nerve cords, drained them and slipped in marbles to hold their structure, but fearing the eventual decay she ingeniously soaked them in transparent adhesive overnight before letting them dry, lacquered and polished them to a pristine shine, and with that Lucy finally had the eyes she wanted.
As Agnes grew better at doll making and more astute at the finer details, the Doll Shop became much more successful, and everyone wanted one of Agnes’s original designs, earning her the title of “The Doll Lady” from the local children. It was always tough for Agnes, making new friends day in and day out, only to have to let them go home with little boys and girls once they were sold by the store owner, but none of them could ever compare to Lucy. At home Lucy began asking Agnes to make more friends for her to play Stop ‘n Go and Hide n' Seek with while Agnes was away from home (The first game is now called Red light, Green Light). Agnes had always wanted to play those games with her classmates after school but was never allowed to, and she was delighted to take up the task. She worked hard and converted the sewing room into a full blown doll workshop. Sometimes stealing but otherwise buying supplies from her employer at a discount for her home shop; she dedicated herself to the craft of making new friends for hours every evening at home. Again however, Lucy disliked her new friend’s eyes, and eventually got them to beg Agnes for better ones like hers, a request which Agnes resisted.
In her mid 20’s however, upon returning home she found that a local boy had broken into her house and discovered her friends. Startled by Agnes, the boy threw a doll at her and leaped out the window. Agnes’s mind broke as her beloved Lucy’s brief scream for help was silenced when she shattered against the wall. Agnes’s grief over the sudden loss of Lucy was overpowered by her fury as all of her friends cried out for her to punish the interloper in kind for the murder of Lucy. Without hesitation she took up her shears, chased down the boy in the nearby woods, and ended his life. She took boy’s eyes as compensation and used them to give Lucy’s boyfriend the eyes he always wanted. Agnes held a memorial for Lucy, burying her in her favorite spot of the meadow on their property overlooking the pond, marked the grave with a single candle and a small photo of her holding Lucy when she was 3, and hid the boy’s body in her basement alongside her stepmothers’ desiccated corpse. With the money she had earned from the doll shop, Agnes had a large, spike tipped, iron rod fence put in around her estate to keep out further transgressors, and from that point on obnoxious children with pretty eyes started disappearing in her home town and Suffolk.
Agnes had mastered preserving the eyes, and giving them to her friends as gifts, sometimes taking a friend into town or Suffolk to pick and choose the eyes they liked best, and Agnes soon became an expert at luring, capturing, and killing the children and young teenagers to extract their eyes for her friends, as well as transporting and hiding the bodies in the woods. However, after a long storm caused mudslides, a few of her victims bodies had been discovered floating down rivers, prompting authorities to search the wooded areas on the outskirts of Suffolk where more were discovered. Everyone was on high alert for suspicious behavior, as any information leading to the arrest of “The Gouger,” now linked to the missing children, had become top priority. Agnes’s peculiarities and shift in personality became more troubling to her boss, and her insistence on walking home without an escort every evening while a killer was on the loose only drew further suspicion her way. She feigned ignorance as best she could until a constable visited her estate, discovered the bodies in her basement and drew his revolver. Panicking about how she would never be allowed to play with her friends again, Agnes attacked the constable, taking a shot in the lower abdomen from his weapon, but managed to cut his jugular artery and send him tumbling down the cellar stairs. Agnes knew she didn’t have much time before more constables would be on her doorstep and had to move fast. After patching herself up haphazardly, all of her friends cried and begged to go with her, but she could only pack up a few with promises to return for the rest later. Tears running down her cheeks, and dragging 2 travel trunks full of her friends while bleeding from her crudely stitched wound, she hastily limped off into the woods as a thick fog rolled in during the twilight hours. Despite the horrific discovery of the dolls she left behind featuring preserved children’s eyes, and an exhaustive manhunt lasting for months, Agnes was never found.
Weapon:
Knives, scissors, ice picks, box cutters etc. Anything small enough for the dolls to wield that could be found in any home or store. (Possibly themed per realm in weapon cosmetic packs) They have a higher than average lunge range but the shortest reach of all killers.
Power: Possession
Passive:
Up to 10-16 dolls appear on the trial grounds based upon map size, and are eager to play a lethal game of “Red light, Green light” with survivors. A possessed doll within 16 meters of a survivor can be transfixed and unable to move or attack (unless touching the survivor) as long as a survivor is looking at it with their inner 30 degree cone of vision, but will be able to move and attack again once the survivor breaks their inner 30 degree line of sight with it or gets more than 16 meters away. Hooked survivors or survivors in the dying state can’t transfix a doll. Similar to how tall reeds and corn affects killers using line of sight abilities (Shape, Ghost Face), vegetation counts as broken line of sight to a survivor looking in a dolls direction restricting the transfixion range to 8 meters. Possessed Dolls make movement sounds and periodic child giggling noises that can be heard within 12 meters, and their Terror Radius, giggling, and red stain persists for 6 seconds for a recently possessed doll after transferring to a new one. The Dolls can’t vault windows, or destroy pallets while transfixed. Breaking, Grabbing, Carrying, Vaulting and Hooking actions are performed by the invisible spirit of Agnes Cartwright who possesses the Dolls and can’t be body blocked, and after it’s hooked a survivor, it possesses the nearest doll.
(Possible balance change if needed due to The Dolls size)
This is the only killer with a 3rd person perspective.
OR,
Fog and Vegetation renders 90% transparent in a 20m radius for the killer when in a dolls perspective. (if going this rout I suggest it also applies to Pig and Ghost Face when they crouch)
Active:
Activating this power transfers your perspective to the nearest Doll, or to the Doll whose aura you target over the span of .3-3 seconds depending upon distance. After possessing another doll if the doll you left behind was transfixed by a survivors gaze, that survivors aura is revealed to you until they get far enough away or break line of sight with it.
Mori:
Four dolls run in and hold the survivors limbs down while the fifth eyeless doll gouges out the survivors eyes with its hands, eats them, and blinks revealing the newly acquired eyes in its sockets, after which the dolls scatter and your perspective returns to the last used doll.
Map: The “Doll Lady’s” House.
In the middle of a large meadow overrun with chest high grass, and on the edge of some woods with a small pond, lies a run down one story home with a living room, bedroom, small bathroom, kitchen and dining area, a doll making workshop room, and a basement accessible from a cellar door outside. Aside from the base of a few mid-sized boulders and trees there is barely a bald spot of earth on the grounds of this map. The entire estate is surrounded by a large, rusty, spike tipped, iron rod fence. Hooks on this map are wood framed and feature stitched together patches of fabric wrapping around them, dangling doll body parts, and a small black and white memorial photo of a of a 3 year old girl holding a doll at the base lit by a single candle.
Unique Perks:
Painful Neglect: Survivors who lose focus on their goals incur hefty penalties. Survivors who take their inner 30 degree cone of vision off of a generator they are repairing experience a 5/10/15% reduced progress speed, increased odds of triggering skill checks, and reduced skill check success zones.
Hide n’ Seek: Innate Control over your terrifying presence conceals your whereabouts from survivors. When within 8/16/24 meters of a survivor, the Terror Radius’s heartbeat sound no longer increases its Rate the closer you are to them.
Mind Numbing Mist: Your intense desire to kill transgressors has saturated the fog of the trial grounds, dulling and suppressing the Survivors sense of situational awareness. Up to 2/3/4 Survivors no longer receive Status Effect, Perk and Teammate condition notifications during the trial. Injured, Dying, Hooked and Exhaustion notifications are exempt from this effect.
Survivor: Wei Ying
A bit malnourished but professional to the core, Wei Ying is a clever man in his 30’s who has over 15 years of experience as an electrical technician. In his youth he always took apart every toy and electronic in his possession; intrigued by how they worked, and as an adult he’s a master of electronics and an artist with his tools and ingenuity having created multiple patented devices that are mass produced today. Cocky, condescending to others, but intense when he commits to a task; having him as an ally ensures objectives will be completed more smoothly than you’re accustomed.
Unique Perks:
Tools of the Trade: When supplies are low you have a keen instinct for finding the right tools for the job. While carrying a Flashlight or Toolbox item of common/uncommon/rare or lower quality during a trial, the first chest you open will be a guaranteed Match or Upgraded rarity item of the same type.
Safety First: Your knowledge of working around electrical devices outmatches others who tend to ignore the basic rules of repairing. When you start repairing a generator it powers down over the span of 8/6/4 seconds and remains powered down while you work on it. Leaving an affected generator for more than 6 seconds, failed skill checks, and damage from the killer will immediately power it back up at its current level of progress.
Delay Resistors: Experience has rewarded you with an advantage against the Killer’s situational awareness. After you completely repair a generator, the generators full power up and notifying alert to the killer is delayed for 3/4/5 seconds or until another survivor begins working on it. The generator can be damaged by the killer within this window of time.
TL;DR Version:
The Dolls
Appearance/Mannerism: Alabaster porcelain dolls the size of totems of male and female variety with differing outfits (possibly in themed outfit packs of 4, e.g. creepy dolls made to look like small versions of the other killers/survivors), they have a 24m terror radius and a 6m\s movement speed.
Weapon: Small weapons such as knives, scissors, screwdrivers, ice picks, claw hammers etc. basically anything small enough for a Doll to wield that can be found anywhere (possibly in themed cosmetic weapon packs of 4, e.g. Realm themed small farm tools, medical tools, metal shop tools, hunting tools…). They have a larger than average lunge range but the shortest reach of all killers.
Power: Possession
Passive: Up to 10-16 dolls appear on the trial grounds based upon map size, and are eager to play a lethal game of “Red light, Green light” with survivors. A possessed doll within 16 meters of a survivor can be transfixed and unable to move or attack (unless touching the survivor) as long as a survivor is looking at it with their inner 30 degree cone of vision, but will be able to move and attack again once the survivor breaks thier inner 30 degree line of sight with it or gets more than 16 meters away. Hooked survivors or survivors in the dying state can’t transfix a doll. Similar to how tall reeds and corn affects killers using line of sight abilities (Shape, Ghost Face), vegetation counts as broken line of sight to a survivor looking in a dolls direction restricting the transfixion range to 8 meters. Possessed Dolls make movement sounds and periodic child giggling noises that can be heard within 12 meters, and Terror Radius, giggling, and red stain persists for 6 seconds for a recently possessed doll after transferring to a new one. The Dolls can’t vault windows, or destroy pallets while transfixed. Breaking, Grabbing, Carrying, Vaulting and Hooking actions are performed by the invisible spirit of Agnes Cartwright who possesses the Dolls and can’t be body blocked, and after it’s hooked a survivor, it possesses the nearest doll.
(Possible balance change if needed due to The Dolls size)
This is the only killer with a 3rd person perspective.
Or,
Fog and Vegetation renders 90% transparent in a 20m radius for the killer when in a dolls perspective. (if going this rout I suggest it also applies to Pig and Ghost Face when they crouch)
Active: Activating this power transfers your perspective to the nearest Doll, or to the Doll whose aura you target over .3-3 seconds depending on distance. After possessing another doll if the doll you left behind was transfixed by a survivors gaze, that survivors aura is revealed to you until they get far enough away or break line of sight with it.
Mori: Four dolls run in and hold the survivors limbs down while the fifth eyeless doll gouges out the survivors eyes with its hands, eats them, and blinks revealing the newly acquired eyes in its sockets, after which the dolls scatter and your perspective returns to the last used doll.
Map: The “Doll Lady’s” House
A small 5 room run down home with a basement accessible by a cellar door on the outside in the middle of a large and very grassy meadow. On the edges of this meadow are young woods, and a small pond. The grounds are surrounded by a spike tipped, rusty, Iron rod fence, and the hooks are wood framed and feature stitched together patches of fabric wrapping around them, dangling doll body parts, and a small black and white memorial photo of a of a 3 year old girl holding a doll at the base lit by a single candle.
Unique Perks:
Painful Neglect: At Max, Survivors who take their inner 30 degree cone of vision off of a generator they are repairing experience a 15% reduced progress speed, increased odds of triggering skill checks, and reduced skill check success zones.
Hide n’ Seek – At Max, When within 24 meters of a survivor, the Terror Radius’s heartbeat sound no longer increases its Rate the closer you are to them.
Mind Numbing Mist – At Max, Up to 4 Survivors no longer receive Status effect, Perk and Teammate condition notifications during the trial. Injured, Down, Hooked and Exhaustion status notifications are exempt from this effect.
Survivor: Wei Ying
A malnourished electrical technician with a cocky attitude, and condescending demeanor towards others. Never the less his expertise at repairing and tinkering with items makes having him as an ally a great benefit to the team when focused on primary objectives.
Unique Perks:
Tools of the Trade: At Max, While carrying a Flashlight or Toolbox item of Rare or lower quality during a trial, the first chest you open will be a guaranteed Match or Upgraded rarity item of the same type.
Safety First – At Max, When you start repairing a generator it powers down over the span of 4 seconds and remains powered down while you work on it. Leaving an affected generator for more than 6 seconds, failed skill checks, and damage from the killer will immediately power it back up at its current level of progress.
Delay Resistors – At Max, After you completely repair a generator, the generators full power up and notifying alert to the killer is delayed by 5 seconds or until another survivor begins working on it. The generator can be damaged by the killer within this window of time.
All creative criticism is welcome.
I can't resist a chance to show off a creation I worked so hard on for others viewing pleasure, especially when they ask for it, and genuinely seem enthusiastic enough to possibly read it (its a long read, which is why included a TL;DR for convenience). Any comments or creative criticism is welcome in the linked post, I'm always up for fine tuning my killer/chapter concepts if need be. 🙂
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@TheClownIsKing said:
I’m so over this crap!!
Match starts.
Take a few steps.
Try to get my bearings.
Hear the TR.
Still trying to get my bearings AND now try and see WHERE the friggin killers is so I KNOW where I can/can’t hide.
Too late, spotted before I have my bearings.
15 to 30 seconds haven’t even passed.
I really don’t care what the majority consensus is, when this happens to me I just take it and hook suicide. Chases will never be my strong suit, so starting matches like this is just not fun. Not one bit. And matches are more frequently starting like this lately, and it’s completely pissing me off.
Killers, look, I get it. It’s not fun for you when you don’t even spot a survivor before 1, 2, or even 3 gens pop.
But THIS: the extreme OPPOSITE kinda crap isn’t fun for survivors either. Quite frankly it’s BS!!!
I understand, and sympathize, so for your sake and the sake of others with this problem, I'll start running more Stealth Killers/Perks so that you don't have to hear the TR after a few steps. 😉
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I forget where I read it, but the devs said they are wanting to reduce the DW timer from 30 seconds to 10, and the only thing stopping them is Doctor, because if the rare circumstance occurs wherein he manages to inflict DW on a survivor and bring them to madness 3, they have to spend 12 seconds to "Snap out of it" before they can mend, and with only 10 seconds on the DW timer, that would be a guaranteed down. Like I said however, that is an extremely rare set of circumstances, because there is nothing in the Docs base kit/add-on's and no perk the in the killers current perk base that inflicts DW. The only time it can happen is if the survivors bring in BT, Soul Guard, MoM, or "Bottled Time" and manage to activate the DW effect. At which point, all that would mean is that Doc is the only killer with a unique advantage in those situations, and honestly, I don't see that as being a big enough problem that they have reservations about going ahead with the timer change to DW.
Plague's base kit gives her an unique advantage against Healing builds and items, Pyramid Head has it for Hook activated perks like DS, hell, even Pig can stall the game better than old Ruin did which gives her the advantage against gen rush, so why not let Doc have that extremely niche advantage against the DW status perks and items brought in by survivors?
Truth be told, I'm not even sure reducing the timer to 10 seconds is going to do anything meaningful, because the only moments the timer is ever allowed to tick down is when a survivor is in a chase and either vaults, pallet drops, or slows down. If it was reduced to 10 seconds, and they lost 1 second on the timer for each pallet drop and vault, that means they would get 10 of those actions before DW downs them, which any killer will tell you is one HELL of a long chase. Still, that's better than the 30 of those actions they currently get, but if a killer has to chase them for 10 of those actions while relying on DW to down the survivor... then that's just a bad killer IMO.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1755297#Comment_1755297
even at 45 seconds, you are given pretty free reign over which gen you want to Pop
that still includes that you waste a lot of time, if you really want to decide which gen to pop. in normal gameplay it is more likely that you are forced to kick a progressed gen that you "by accident" pass by. And giving up a chase is almost never a good option. Having another downed survivor is in most cases the better pressure than having 20 seconds extra on a gen. The lost chase takes you longer than 20 seconds to catch up again.
such a situation to not be terribly common
this is just an example to show what I mean with scenarios, and that this perk can not just be described with "down near gens" as you asked about "more than one scenario". The game is a bit more complex, especially when it comes to "conditions"
something comparable with less effort using Pop
Pop requires hooking. Infectious Fright is best on killers that benefit from slugging. I said that before, having to hook each downed survivor can give the team enough time to pop another gen or to either heal the team or get easy unhooks while you hook the next one. All not necessary with Surge. I can just repeat again: if you add multiple Surge effects on a slugging party, it is way more likely to end the game than with Pop.
Again, I think the bigger problem is the range. There are nearly no complaints about the cooldown on Thrilling Tremors. There were some in the beginning, but the perk is still picked decently often. Surge is too easy to counter by just running into deadzones (gen wise) which is what you do anyway when you have a plan on remaining gens.
We might just disagree, but I'm pretty sure that a removed cooldown would lead to a complete replacement of Pop, at least in higher ranks. Also pretty sure that it would hurt more than Pop if they did so
it wouldn't do more than PGTW... not by a long shot.
Even with no cooldown, you would have to down 3 survivors within the same range of a generator to equal 24% damage, whereas simply hooking one survivor guarantees 25% damage to a generator of your choosing with PGTW. Basically, downing and hooking all 3 survivors, regardless of what range they are from a generator with whatever attack you have available (m1, or power) would grant you 75% damage that could be divided between 3 generators anywhere on the map. Meanwhile Surge does 1% less damage overall as a reward for downing those 3 same survivors. The only way this could ever be considered effective is in a 3 gen situation where all 3 gens get hit with Surge for each of the 3 survivors you down, and you still only do 24% damage to each gen, at which point, you have 3 survivors down and 1 running around, are you seriously going to start hooking survivors in that situation? If that were me, I'd just chase and down the 4th while hoping none of the others have Unbreakable, and couldn't care less about Surge doing any more damage because I'm obviously steamrolling their team.
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I feel that the general consensus of Surge is that while it's a potentially useful perk, especially after the last update that made it apply its 8% damage to already regressing gens, it still has too many conditions for activation that hinder it, and make it a poor choice when compared to other Gen defense perks. Currently its conditions are:
- Must down a survivor.
- down a survivor within 32 meters of a generator.
- down a survivor with a basic attack.
- it can only activate once every 40 seconds due to cooldown.
The problem with the First and Second conditions is that healthy survivors against a standard M1 killer will almost always get further than 32 meters from a generator after the first hit, especially on the medium-large maps where gens are spread out more, leaving the only killers who can down a healthy survivor quickly like Ghost Face and Shape as the ideal users.
The problem with the Third condition is that it just outright restricts the killers who can get any utility from it to killers who can down survivors quickly with a "basic attack". The only killers who can currently do this consistently are Ghost Face, Shape, and Plague since they all have a way to either expose the survivor, or put them in the broken state, which leaves them vulnerable to a 1-shot down. Compounding upon the problem with the first and second conditions, these 3 killers seem to be the only ones who can actually get any use out of Surge.
Finally the problem with the Fourth condition is that, while it can take a killer 40 seconds to down a survivor, good killers can start snowballing and down survivors 1 after the other within 20-30 seconds apart from each other. This means that for 2 downs back to back, Surge only activates 1 time, which feels wasteful considering the meager 8% damage it does to generators that would require 3 activations to even come close to equaling the damage Pop Goes the Weasel does in a single activation. Compounding this with with the first condition, that is potentially 3 activations of PGTW totaling to over 75% damage to generators vs. 24% damage spread out over a minimum 120 seconds.
The primary strengths of Surge are:
- it can affect multiple generators at a time per activation.
- it can damage generators that are already regressing.
- it saves the killer time on kicking gens themselves.
- it can pair with Surveillance to give the killer information on which gens are being worked on.
While these strengths are nice and amount to saving the killer precious time in regressing generators or finding survivors when paired with Surveillance, they also don't hold a candle to the sheer power you get from other generator regression perks like Pop Goes the Weasel, and Ruin, Both of which have far fewer conditions/restrictions for activation. This makes most of the community right to believe that Surge is far too underpowered to warrant having so many conditions for activation, because after all: Why would you equip a perk that only does 8% damage to a generator, Once every 40 seconds, only if you are close enough to said generator, on the condition that you down the survivor with a basic attack, Just for the reward of saving you time on kicking said generator, when you can otherwise down a survivor from any distance with any attack, and be rewarded with a 25% chunk of damage to the generator from PGTW?
Sadly we all know the reason why this perk has so many conditions for activation despite its meager damage: 3 gen situations. While designing Surge someone on the dev team must have said "but it can damage multiple gens at once, won't that make it OP in a 3 gen situation?"... I mean, Come on, you all know that's how that discussion HAD TO have gone down, and is definitely why they overcompensated for it with so many "conditions." Originally Surge was going to come out with 12% damage per activation, but apparently upon having this conversation, they overcompensated even further on this as well by knocking it down to 8%, but in all honesty, even with 12% damage per activation, it wouldn't even come close to slowing down survivors enough to stop them from defeating a 3 gen by split rushing when surge's primary condition for activation is: Down a survivor.
Bottom line, If they removed the "Down with Basic attack" requirement, and the Cooldown, Surge still wouldn't be as useful or as powerful as any of the other gen defense perks we currently have... but at least it would be more useful to more killers on the roster than it currently is.
TL;DR:
Surge has too many conditions for activation that restrict its usefulness to only 3 killers on the current roster (Ghost Face, Shape, and Plague). For the meager reward of 8% damage and saving time on kicking gens yourself, there are better alternative perks available that do greater damage and have fewer restrictions which makes Surge "Trash tier" by comparison. I believe the sole reason Surge is so restricted is because the devs feared it's potential power in a 3 gen situation, but considering that its primary condition for activation is that you have to down a survivor, this logic is flawed. Even if they removed 2 of the conditions for activation, basic attack and cooldown, Surge still wouldn't be Overpowered in a 3 gen situation, or any situation honestly, but at least it would be useful to more killers on the roster.
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@jotaro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1749338#Comment_1749338
humiliate? maybe just stop taking everything in a videogame so personally?
Like I said "killers just wanting to have fun", It's not really "fun" to go into any multiplayer game where your opponents primary goal is to bully you. It's not about taking it personally, its about how they are trying to purposely ruin your chance at having any fun, and the fact that they are live streaming their match against you to all of their followers, bringing in a band of their cronies to aid them, and trash talking you the whole time they do it, amounts to semi-public humiliation. Whether you witness the stream of your match against them or not, the fact remains: it is happening, people are watching it for entertainment, and there's nothing you can do about that.
Against normal "non-streamer" opponents in this game, be they swf or not, at least their goals are to try to win while having fun. Whereas Live Streamers have a different definition of "fun" that involves proving they are "gods" to their followers by utterly destroying the competition while going out of their way to abuse every advantage they have via voice comms, stream sniping against fellow streamers, and using every high powered tool the game gives them, all while bragging about it. These opponents are a very different animal, whose sole goal is to create "good content" for their stream, and whose ego's are stroked by their followers no matter how nasty or toxic they're to those they play with or against.
Be honest with yourself. When faced with this kind of opponent, are you just gonna lie down and take it because "it's just a game" and doesn't matter? Or are you going to at least try to turn their attempt at ruining your fun around by "humbling" their ego a bit?
If you're going into a match where you know for a fact your opponent will purposely try to ruin your fun, and aren't going to hold back while doing so, then why should you?
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@Pepsidot said:
The triple bloodpoint event started on the 13th and lasts until the 15th. The only thing is... it's on DBD mobile! You may have got an email about it from the DBD mobile team - as did I.
The devs showing platform favoritism? scoffs (monocle drops from eye) Well I never...
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Twitch Streamer Survivors typically bring in an SWF group of Cronies, and never hold back on their builds or tactics in order to have fun bullying the killers for "good stream content", or in other words, are more often than not, very toxic opponents. Killers just wanting to have fun find themselves confronted with a choice when facing such an opponent: Let them toxically humiliate me in front of all their followers live on stream, or stop holding back and change my build/offerings to humiliate them instead.
OP, Put yourself in the killers position... Given the circumstances, which of those options are you most likely to take?
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In OP's context, yes... somewhat. Learning any killer takes time and potentially many losses before you get the hang of them and really start getting them kills, but when it comes to Blight vs. Nurse, one of these things is not like the other, one of these things requires much more patience. It all comes down to their learning curves, Playing Nurse it took me a good 20+ hours or so before I could declare I was getting "decent" with her, whereas with Blight, I played maybe a total of 10 matches or around 2-3 hours and could declare the same. Nurses learning curve is heavy, in that it punishes you severely for making mistakes, but rewards you greatly for getting the hang of her Precision. Blight on the other hand has much more Wiggle room to correct for mistakes, and feels much friendlier to new players since learning to play him effectively is less about prediction and more about reaction in the early experiences. Nurse simply doesn't give you that. You either go hard and nail your predictions, or go home, and most people who try Nurse out don't have the patience to get good with her when there are other killers to choose from who have easier learning curve and reward players much sooner for the time they put into them.
So in the context of "you will be stomped game after game in order to get better?" Like all killers, Blight has that, but unlike Nurse, the stomping ceases much sooner since his learning curve is more lenient and easier to pick up on. However, when it comes to the Time you put into learning a killer Vs. the reward for learning them, Nurse still stands proudly over all of the others as the quintessential queen. Yeah, she's without a doubt the hardest and most time consuming to learn/get good with, so expect MANY losses before you do... but once you do, you become a nigh unstoppable force of nature. Seriously, no other killer in this game gives you that feeling of reward that hands down feels, above all else, well earned.
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So wait a minute, you're telling me that the Old dude and the woman who's into wearing tank tops are not actually Dwight No. 2 and Meg No. 2?
SMH, yeah right, Next you'll be telling me that the squeaky girl isn't Rule 63 Jake!
I swear, you survivors all look the same to me.
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My question: What is Victors Terror Radius?
If he's not "undetectable" or at least has a 0 TR, then survivors are going to have too much warning that he's coming and just hop in lockers to avoid him. On top Of this, I don't believe Aura Reading perks or perks like spine chill and premonition should work on Victor, the poor little guy can only down injured survivors if he nails his pounce on them which is currently a difficult task, so if survivors can see him coming with OoO, or know he's heading towards them, there's very little point to use him.
Edit: ok so he has 0 TR, but in my testing he's still detectable with Spine Chill, and OoO which gives survivors using those a significant advantage against him.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739017#Comment_1739017
I think you vastly over value how strong her corrupt is. Even with corrupt she can be looped for quite a while. She will down you slightly faster than without yeah, but when you count in the extra time spent infecting and picking up the fountain you're at more of a negative than a positive a lot of the time. You are misunderstanding the time ratio I gave you. They are not gaining 4 seconds each time you get corrupt purge, they are gaining 4 seconds for each second you spend. So 5 seconds to pick up corrupt purge (this is extremely generous and assuming you're near walking right past it at the moment which is quite rare) is 20 seconds given to the survivors. I think the survivors gain a lot more time from this interaction than you're realizing.
You mention them now not having incentive to cleanse at all but that is entirely the point of my other change where we decrease her TR per survivor fully infected. This is to make it more dangerous if they indeed don't cleanse now. You also say it's bad to give survivors more control over her power but now you are getting instant corrupt without the time cost of picking it up making it actually time cost positive. There's also very few moments where you would not want to get that corrupt instead of your vile. The only time you are honestly being given your corrupt when you really don't want it is the assumption of a hyper organized SWF 4 man. Given this, it would be a net positive.
I think considering Plague low A tier is extremely generous. I can't think of a single high hour/high rank player that would put her there or even close. The general consensus is mid B at best. A killer that when it comes down to it against good survivors is an extremely loopable m1 killer is never even remotely close to A tier or in a general sense "strong". I just feel like you're giving Plague way too much credit. I'm assuming good survivors, not the survivors you will run into on average.
With all due respect concerning your last statement about my tier assessment of Plague, I told you I mained her, what I didn't tell you was for how long, which in my case was over a year as she became my go-to girl to get the job done once I got good with her. Regardless, you can't main any killer for even a month in the red ranks without running into coordinated SWF groups and top brass survivor teams, so when I put her at a low A tier, understand I was including the above average survivors, of whom, even with her bugs/kit as it currently stands, I have still been able to dominate regularly.
I'm not "vastly over valuing" the strength of corrupt purge and if anything I feel you're underestimating it, because while it can be looped and avoided with the right obstacles, just like with huntress and deathslinger, once you get good at aiming and timing your shots with it, there's very little survivors can do to consistently avoid it. On top of that it's a rapid fire ranged attack, and by that I'm talking about how quickly you can chain the attack with separate charges of her power, and not just one charge of it, which makes it the easiest/fastest ranged attack in the game. Downing broken/exposed survivors with M1 attacks shortens chases to half the time it would take to injure and down a healthy survivor, but when it comes to Corrupt purge, It can take even less time to down a survivor from the healthy state and from positions they thought they were safe at. With it, I've downed survivors over obstacles, through holes in walls, through each-other, and in positions that would otherwise be impossible for the average M1 killer to take advantage of or mindgame, and once you realize that Plague has this power over them, you end up chuckling to yourself every time the survivors willingly give it to you.
Now, I get what you're saying regarding time management when it comes to gaining corrupt purge, and while its an idea going in the right direction, it still puts the survivors in too much control over when Corrupt activates. Knowing what I just told you about corrupt purges power, you're going to need much stronger incentive for survivors to cleanse than simply lowering her TR as good survivors will literally put up with anything to avoid giving her that ability. Recently/Ever Since she received the update that starts her with 1 corrupt fountain by default, and due to how few people actually play her, the average survivor teams seem to have forgotten the "Don't Cleanse" strategy against her, which has made playing her at my level even more dangerous for them. Still, I do end up running into teams of good survivors that refuse to cleanse until the gates are powered, no matter how much my build punishes them for it. Giving plague Instant corruption when they cleanse at a fountain allows them to pick and choose when to do it, and if the good survivors aren't cleansing against her now, what makes you think they ever would when granted that much control?
@OniWantsYourMacaroni already suggested a damn decent idea for how she can activate corrupt purge:
"A good idea for her corrupt purge would be that the plague should be able to channel it from any corrupted fontain on the map similiar to freddy when he's teleporting to gens.
She shouldn't be able to cancel it however"
This keeps the activation of corrupt purge in her control, and saves her time on traveling to fountains to do it, which in my book sounds like a win/win buff for her. Would survivors still refuse to cleanse if it were implemented? Yes, but at least they would no longer have direct control over it, and bringing in the Apple Add-ons would give her up to 3 activations she can perform at her leisure from the start of the game. Compared to auto corrupt activation at every cleanse, which can only be performed once every minute of the game with your other suggestion that restricts survivors from cleansing while she has corrupt activated, @OniWantsYourMacaroni 's suggestion gives her more freedom to pick and choose which fountains she gains corrupt from and when she activates it. Any suggestion that keeps her most powerful tool out of the hands of survivors is the direction our collective suggested buffs needs to go in. Take my own suggestions for example, while they are small, they save her time on infecting survivors herself, make her more of a threat to deal with in an M1 chase which encourages survivors to cleanse, and don't do anything to put her power in the survivors control. While I understand where you are coming from and the intentions of your suggested buffs to her, I still don't comprehend how giving survivors that kind of power over her power would end up being any better than how she operates now, since no matter how much time would be saved were it implemented, you're assuming that good survivors would ever activate it for you in the first place.
I don't mean to be combative or straight up shoot your ideas down, I just want to point out the flaw that the idea would have if implemented, and hope to help you iron the kinks out of it. The devs have stated before that when it came to their choices for balancing Plague they had to walk a very fine line regarding how her power works to keep it from becoming too oppressive to the survivors vs. too weak for the killer. They ended up making it more weak than strong, but where they left it strong it's actually bordering on the "over-powered" end of the scale. Plague does need buffs, both to how her power functions, and how her points are gained (she really should gain her "Contagious" scoring event for every thing survivors infect), but like them we have to walk that same fine line when making our suggestions. To others, the auto corrupt idea would make her broken, but to me, it would result in making her underpowered without a harsher incentive for survivors to cleanse. IMO, Plague has always put survivors between a rock and a hard place: Don't cleanse = spend the game in a 1 shot down state that also makes you easier for her to track, Cleanse = Give her the best ranged attack in the game, and good survivors have adapted to this situation by taking advantage over when and where they choose to cleanse. Finding the right balance in our suggestions and predicting how survivors would realistically react to them if they were put into the game is not easy, but we have to consider it from all angles if the devs are ever going to take us seriously.
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Big brain tip:
Franklin's Demise + Mannequin's Food (add-on) + Rights of Judgement Trails =
https://youtu.be/ztrHLO0juEg?t=10Remember, be respectful and Only use this knowledge for g- BWAHAHAHAAAAA! 🤣I couldn't finish that with a straight face... Go nuts my fellow magnificently evil monsters! Just stick to the Killers code: "If survivors never hold back on their builds and tactics, why should you? "😈
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Because both PC and Console survivors have 2 things in common:
- They tend to ignore "doing bones" regardless of how many times they've been burned by NOED.
- They never hold back on their builds or strategies.
If it's a fair mechanic in the game that proves effective against survivors who use every advantage they have without even a thought to how it affects the killers fun... Why not use it? In some aspects, it's one of the few perks that allows killers to level the playing field against survivors and what they bring in, in others, its just a nasty surprise for them that's otherwise avoidable. Either way, there's nothing wrong with using a legal game mechanic to your advantage, no matter what side you play. If you are encountering it 9 times out of 10, there's nothing wrong with you adjusting your own builds and strategies to compensate for it's eventuality or outright counter it. Truth be told, good killers don't actually need it until they are matched with survivors that are equal to or greater in skill than them, at which point the killers miss having it. However despite this, it's far from a "crutch" perk, as a true "crutch" wouldn't be so easily avoidable.
Still people complain about it because of the eternal argument: "Do Bones!" vs. "Ain't nobody got time for that!", So unless survivors actually start "doing bones" on the regular to counter it, Killers will keep using it to punish them "for being lazy". Despite how frustrating it can be, It's as much a legal mechanic of the game as anything the survivors bring in, so I never begrudge a killer for using it if they feel they have to.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738920#Comment_1738920
Even if we assumed a hypothetical situation where vile purge didn't exist and she had corrupt purge all the time, where would you place Plague? I ask this because I think corrupt purge strength is pretty over exaggerated. In this hypothetical world I still think Plague would be only high A tier with a couple other killers still being better. My point being even if we added all these things (which is much, much less than the hypothetical situation I mentioned) she still wouldn't be top tier so I don't see an issue.
Yes the survivors have to go out of their way to cleanse but that's pretty meaningless when you think about how much time you spent infecting them in the first place and the time you give them in picking it up. IE every 1 second you spend is +3 or 4 seconds for them, so you walking over to pick it up is way, way worse than the time they spent cleansing it there.
I think you missed one of my other changes which involved preventing survivors from cleansing if another survivor already cleansed and you currently have Corrupt. "-Infection cannot be cleansed while Plague is corrupted" This means your scenario of them all cleansing at once couldn't happen.
Plague has the most devastating ranged damage attack in the game. Hypothetically, if all she had was corrupt purge, then she mop the floor with survivors in all maps except for a few of the indoor ones like Treatment Theater. As she currently stands, good survivors cleanse very sparingly, as opposed to those who cleanse as often as possible and get punished for it. I know this because I actually mained her up until Blight came out, and I still do very well in red ranks when I play her with my build: DL, Thana, Surge, Surveillance/Pop/BBQ, (I call it the "Rock and Hard Place"). Her power with corrupt Purge is uncontested IMO as it's basically "machine gun hatchets" with a 13m range that can hit multiple survivors better than bubba's chainsaw, can be used more often, and good survivors know it and fear giving it to her. This is why My build punishes them for refusing to cleanse more than it does for when they cleanse, which by design, encourages them to cleanse and give me that power over them. Like I said before, I don't have to go out of my way to get corrupt purge when, sooner or later, a survivor will lead me to a corrupt fountain during a chase, and I'll unleash hell on them for it. If they gain 4 seconds for each time I gain corrupt purge, they are gonna lose 20 seconds per survivor I down with it.
I admit I did miss that because I started responding after reading up to the auto corrupt idea, and while that would stop the scenario wherein they can all cleanse simultaneously, the auto corrupt still gives them no incentive to cleanse at all when they can just deal with being broken all game and gen rush. While My build counters that and encourages them to cleanse, it still falls victim to survivors being efficient with gens in the early game as the main slowdown I gain with my build doesn't occur until all survivors are infected/broken, and I have acquired at least 4 stacks of DL. If I can't get them all broken and 4 stacks of DL by the time there are 3 gens left, It's a real pain in the ass to make up for it. My build and strategies aside however, I still feel that giving them the power to control when corrupt purge activates for Plague vs. being able to choose when you activate it yourself, would be more of a hinderance for her than a blessing.
I'm neutral on your suggestion to lower her TR 2m per fully infected survivor because M&A was my go-to perk with her for a long time since it allowed her to get close enough to start infecting survivors, but with that suggestion it would require her to infect all 4 to gain the benefit of M&A. Still, If paired with M&A it could be quite devastating, as she would have a 16m TR with all infected, and we all know how much survivors hate it when Deathslinger brings in M&A, and he doesn't move as fast as she does. Likewise the regression suggestion is a nice touch that would encourage Plague players to infect every gen they come across as often as possible and use the add-ons that increase infection time on objects, but I promise you'll get nothing but complaints from the survivors over it, and even if it were implemented, their go-to method to defeat it will still be to gen rush while infected instead of cleansing.
As for your last suggestion... I honestly think that is already in the works. The devs are trying to get the tik rates and timings for perks like Dead Hard optimized for the dedicated servers, and I'm certain they're also working on correcting killers projectile timings and tik rates as well, so you may not have needed to suggest that.
IMHO, Plague is a very strong killer once you learn how to use her effectively. Is she S tier? No, but I personally put her at a high B - low A because her 2 part power makes chases last half as long as they would be with most other killers, Gives her excellent tracking, and makes her a nightmare to face at range. Does she need improvements? Absolutely, but not if they are going to give survivors more control over her power than they already have.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738696#Comment_1738696
I like both changes. I worry it isn't enough though.
You think the auto acquiring Corrupt is too much?
Auto corruption would only encourage survivors to avoid cleansing as much as possible, which would bring back the old way of combating her when plague first came out (i.e. never cleanse). My current method of gaining corrupt purge is to simply chase survivors until they lead me to a corrupt fountain, pick it up, finish the chase, and then spend the next 50 seconds punishing the team for cleansing. While survivors primary strategy is to cleanse at fountains as far from the Plague and gens as possible, they also go out of their own way to do it, which wastes their time, and honestly they can't keep it up forever. Why go to the fountains they chose far away, when they will soon be bringing them close to you?
I've honestly never had much trouble with picking up corrupt purge, it's just not my primary focus as much as keeping them sick and in a 1 shot state is, but even that has it's issues, and while auto corrupt would mean that survivors would be less inclined to cleanse and stay broken, it would also mean that the survivors will either never cleanse or choose to all cleanse at the same time so that you only get 60-70 seconds of corruption, vs having 4 fountains ready each providing 60 seconds of it at your leisure. Either way, it puts them in more control of her power than they currently have, and I'm not much of a fan of that concept (this example is best shown in game by using her Iridescent Seal add-on and having 2-3 gens pop at roughly the same time: 2-3 activations of auto corrupt, but only about 50 seconds of usage for it). At least now, you can pick when you want to start doing ranged damage, even if you sometimes have to go out of your way to do it.
It's not that I think it's too much in the way of making her broken, Instead I feel that it would do the opposite, because unless the auto corruption stacks its seconds every time a survivor cleanses, 4 survivors cleansing simultaneously will only give Plague one corrupt activations worth of time, and if it did stack the time, no one would ever cleanse. You can see where I'm going with this right? When plague first came out, everyone complained that her corrupt purge power is too much in the survivors control, and with the auto corrupt idea, that would be 100% true.
I do however agree that the volume of the "prayer whispers" she hears when she gets corrupt purge needs to be turned down. It currently smothers out all survivor noises aside from screaming. Hell you can accidentally walk by a gen being worked on and not even hear the sounds they make while working on it. I don't get why the devs insist on applying certain sounds to killers base kits that hinder our ability to hunt survivors via the noises they make, all while still giving us a hint in the loading screen telling us to "listen for survivor noises". well devs, which is it? Am I supposed to be able to hunt with sound or not?
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A couple alternative small buffs that I believe would help plague gain more map pressure and viability in the mid-high ranks:
- Give survivors the Hindered status whenever they vomit for the duration of the vomiting (roughly 1.5-2 seconds). This is a small and periodic de-buff to survivors that makes the Plague more of a threat in a chase but not so much that she becomes OP or too oppressive.
- Also while a survivor vomits, give them a 6m AoE that infects everything within its radius. This allows the sickness to spread throughout the maps less predictably and reduces the workload on the Plague herself. Currently survivors spread the sickness to each other by rescuing an infected survivor, working on a gen with a fully infected survivor or healing a downed infected survivor, all of which require direct interactions, otherwise the Plague has to infect them and objects herself every time. Adding this will make the sickness spread feel more like an actual Plague, apply more pressure to the map for her, make the add-on's that increase infection time on objects more noticeable, increase the chances of the sickness spreading to other survivors, and help her gain the contagious (25bp) scoring events more often.
I believe this is pretty much all she really needs in order to save time and make her more of a threat without breaking her. I've always thought the biggest problems she has are how much of the work she has to do herself in order to get survivors infected in the first place, and encouraging survivors to use the fountains so that she can gain corrupt purge. Instead of spending the majority of her time infecting and re-infecting survivors, theoretically with these changes, all she would have to do is infect 1 or 2 survivors, and let them spread it to the rest of their team. On top of that, with survivors experiencing small slowdowns during a chase against a 115% movement speed killer, who can one shot them at this point, they'd become much more inclined to cleanse at fountains asap instead of waiting until there's only 1 gen left or the gates are powered. Overall these would allow her to apply better pressure, and save her time so she can focus more on tracking and downing survivors, which is really all she needs in order to become a better and more viable killer IMO.
Is this suggestion too much or too little? What do you guys think?
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I'm still betting it's one of the Ghuls from Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor/Shadow of War. Those pinkish-purple little turds are tiny, cause a ton of damage, but go down in 1 hit, but above all they're relentless.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1727441#Comment_1727441
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1727446#Comment_1727446
Thanks for reminding me. This is actually how I started out in the game so I can't believe I forgot that bit lol.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1727952#Comment_1727952
I've argued on this point before but I've come up with a way to help ease that problem over time. Instead of a permanent avoid feature maybe it's timed for a few months? This would allow those really exceptional players to still find lobbies, albeit at a slower pace than now.
And what happens when the big name DbD Streamer/fog whisperers start getting blocked by every player they face simply because they are "big name" streamers? People troll the hell out of those guys on a daily basis, and even recently hackers were ruining the DC penalty system for everyone by attacking those Streamers with 72 hour bans live on their streams. Not only would the "avoid player" feature single them out as an easy target for the trolls, it would also destroy their revenue, and the fog whisperer agreement they have with BHVR wherein they are providing advertising for DbD by playing the game. No one is going to watch a Streamer like Monto, or Otzdarva if 80% of the stream is just them queueing up for a lobby because they got screwed over by a bunch of trolls spreading the word for everyone to block them. Within 1 week of the block feature being implemented, their queue times would skyrocket, and they'd feel alienated from the game they love and utterly betrayed by the devs. The only way the devs could avoid that would be to exempt Fog whisperers from the feature, but that would only cause the rest of the community to ######### and moan about favoritism, and cause a cluster of headache inducing complaint posts from other good players who are getting screwed by the feature and don't have the luxury of being a fog whisperer.
If my queue times shot up to even 10 mins between matches, and I knew that the reason for it is because I was doing too well in the game, I'd just uninstall the damn thing, because obviously no one wants to take up the challenge of playing against me. "Timed for A few Months"... after a sour experience like that, what is the actual likelihood of me EVER re-installing the game a few months later after people already proved to me that they don't want me playing with them?
Adding an "Avoid Player" feature into the game would be financial suicide for the devs, even if the feature only operates for 1 week, because it's still putting the power of Banning players into the hands of the players, and as we all know, this community is full of unsportsmanlike and toxic players who will use any and every excuse to rig the game in their favor if allowed. This has been most prominently expressed ever single time the DC penalty system has been taken offline, and if the Block player function was available the last time that happened, Many habitual DC'ers would get a heftier community chosen ban from the game, but so would every good player they DC'd against. The devs are trying to expand the player base, not kill it. If that means we have to deal with the occasional toxic turd in the punch bowl vs. not being allowed to play anymore because players can't handle the challenge of playing against us, I'd go with the former, because while frustrating at times, at least it's unbiased.
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@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1727100#Comment_1727100
Did they ever blacklist it? I thought it was just in that "if you get banned, we won't help" greyzone limbo state for a long time and then turned obsolete by the transition to dedicated servers. Which is a good thing, as just like the log-driven "figure out who the killer is" stuff that was going on for a while the only way to stop it was to make it obsolete - people didn't need dedicated software to do any of that, they just streamlined the process.
But yeah, I totally agree with your point though. While I'm sure a lot of people would use a block feature exclusively to block genuinely unpleasant people, it's been proven before in both DBD and other games that a very notable amount of players will use that sort of power to make things easier for themselves instead. Perhaps limited slots would discourage that sorta thing, but it would just reduce the problem and not eliminate it.
They definitely had it Blacklisted in EAC, and if EAC caught you using it and banned you, the devs would basically wash their hands of you and say "that's your problem, you were warned, but you did it anyway and got caught." Then the Dedicated servers came out and made it obsolete, just as you said, however, up until then there were still ways to bypass EAC and still use MLGA, but fortunately not everyone knew how to do that, so MLGA saw a major decrease in usage due to the Blacklisting. Which leads me to my point: BHVR themselves acknowledged the problem MLGA was causing their game and the community due to players blocking other players, and acted against it by having it Blacklisted in EAC. Yet here's a post asking the devs to basically reinstate the function of MLGA that got it Blacklisted, i.e. the ability to Block players, as an integrated part of the core game... Methinks the OP is "barking up the wrong tree."
Even if they did implement a block player feature into DbD with a limit of 10, that would still cause a huge issue for the top % of high ranked players. Can you imagine a good red ranked Killer getting blocked by every survivor they play against on the dedicated server they play on? While its true each player would only have 10 slots to use, that's still 4 players per match blocking that killer, and eventually that would create an ousting environment wherein the best players can no longer play DbD, because every time they get a match, the players use up one of their slots to block them, and eventually that players queue times go way up because nobody will play with them. It's not their fault that players don't want to take up the challenge of playing against them, they worked hard to get as good as they are, but a block player function would reward them with what basically amounts to a "community chosen" ban from the game. That would be like if the top player in an esports game like Overwatch was kicked out "for being too good" which doesn't make any damn sense in any multiplayer platform. "Congratulations, you're one of the top 100 players in our leaderboards, enjoy your ban!" yeah... that sounds fun. /s
While the "Intention" for having a Block player function may be to weed out the toxic, unsportsmanlike, and hacking/cheating players, the reality is that it wouldn't be used that way, and genuinely good players would end up suffering because of it. BHVR knew that when they blacklisted MLGA, so I don't really see the point of asking them to implement an "Avoid Player" function into their game as a feature.
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It turns out that it was the primary cause of most of Mount Ormand's FPS drop issues, so in order to make the map work better/smoother for the average player, they had to remove it (kinda like how the Office tile in the Treatment Theater map caused heavy FPS drops until they reworked it). They may eventually bring it back during the Graphical Update for the map if they can stabilize the problem it caused to players FPS, but until then it's unlikely to return.
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We bullied killers, blew off some steam, had a good laugh, and complained whenever killers got buffed and survivors/loops got nerfed, so... not much differently from now.
I do admire killer mains who stuck to it back then though, even if it was less a testament of their skill and more of a confession of their masochism. Killer mains back then were just made of stronger stuff I guess.
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This discussion is the exact reason why the devs blacklisted MLGA for PC players before the dedicated servers were established:
"MLGA is a mod that shows you the pings of people in your game lobby. The idea is that if the ping is too high you have the chance to dodge that lobby in order to not get stuck in a laggy/ unfair game. It also has a feature that allows you to add players to a list and tag them as either "blocked" or "loved", so you can avoid certain people who play in a way you don't like."
MLGA was being heavily abused by players blocking others and essentially rigging the game so that they would only play against players of lower skill than themselves. BHVR recognized how abusive the ability to block players was being, and rightfully Blacklisted MLGA in Easy Anti Cheat so that no one would be getting blocked anymore. This was back when DbD was still peer to peer connection, and MLGA only worked for that kind of game. However, despite its Blacklisted status in EAC, some players still figured out work arounds and were able to continue abusing it all the way up until the Dedicated servers were set up, which made MLGA useless.
The bottom line: MLGA was a tool that allowed DbD players to do exactly what this post is talking about, and it was such a problem for the PC community that BHVR took measures to Blacklist it, and outright banned players for using it.
OP, what you're asking for is essentially the same thing as MLGA, but integrated into the core of the game, by the developers who already Blacklisted that program because of the damage it was causing to the DbD community, and you think they are going to consider this suggestion? ... Good Luck.
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Unless the killer has an ace up their sleeve, an open gate is a No-win scenario:
- Down an injured survivor past the gate threshold = survivor crawls out while you blade wipe.
- Injure a healthy survivor even 60 meters away from an open gate = survivor uses the speed boost to gun it for the gate threshold and escapes before you can hit them again, or their healthy buddies come out to body block for them and ensure their escape.
Basically, without a 1 shot down tool, activated Blood Warden, Myers with Tombstone Piece/Tombstone, or Deathslingers spear, approaching the gate is pointless, and the survivors waiting at it are just doing so to gloat because they know there's nothing most killers can do to get one of them on a hook or pull off 1 last miraculous kill. Killer mains would much rather the survivors just escape and stop wasting thier time, but Survivors being survivors, won't even do that when they're allowed upwards of 1.9 minutes to t-bag at the threshold. So put yourself in the killers perspective for a moment... you know all of this, and the survivors are hanging out at the exit gate, do you go over there to let them gloat and give them free protection hit points, or do you just wander the map busting up any dropped pallets you may have missed, and possibly close the hatch for your own point benefit without giving them the chance to taunt you with a no-win scenario while they T-bag in your face?
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1717078#Comment_1717078
Caught me before my edit went through. But we are at five pages of perks (maxed out my first killer, Hillbilly, recently). Four more pages is sixty more at twelve a year. That’s five.
hmmm... may have messed up my math... 3 perks per killer and survivor released... current amount is 75 killer perks, and 83 survivor... so 180 - 75 = 105 and 204 - 83 = 121...
105/3 = 35
121/3 = 40 (AHA!!! that's where I think I screwed up...)
yet.... even if 4 killers and survivors were released per year, each bringing 3 perks, to equal 180 perks for killers, and 204 for survivors....
105/4 = 26.25 killers
121/4 = 30.25 survivors
so roughly 7.5 years for survivors, less for killers.... which seems weird considering there are only 20 perks per page, and your math feels correct.... I think i'm overthinking this
BAh, I can't math today! 12 per year per killer and survivor... you're probably right.
Edit: ok I Think I know where my math messed up... I needed to devide 105 by 12, and 121 by 12, giving us 8.75 years for killers and 10.083 years for survivors... wait.... what? Someone please help me, this can't be right. (this coming from a guy who accurately mathed out how much time it takes to finish the tomes and archives here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1527119#Comment_1527119)
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1717067#Comment_1717067
That’s nineteen years from now if anyones curious.
35 more killers and survivors each coming with 3 perks... at 4 per year... we actually get 8.75 years at this point, but yeah, it's a long ass time to wait.
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My theory is that once the amount of perks becomes equal to 3x the amount available when they introduced the change to bloodwebs that enabled 4 perks per blood web after level 50, then, and only then, will they remove tiers from perks.
for an idea of when that will happen... the new system that introduced 4 perks per blood web past lvl 50 was introduced right before the stranger things chapter, so that would mean that the perks have to equal 3 x 60 for killers, and 68 x 3 for survivors, so 180 for killers (9 pages of perks) and 204 for survivors (10.2 pages of perks).
At that point, if they STILL insist upon making everyone purchase the same perk 3x in order to max its level... Pretty sure most of us will just uninstall.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703630#Comment_1703630
exactly. Like, especially when you look at the killers that are commonly declared 'unfun' 'op' etc, it's usually more of 'okay, they do need a tweak here and there, but not a complete rebuild or even removal, people just need to adjust to them,
Don't even get me started...
...
Dangit, Ok gonna just say this: I HATE DEATHSLINGER!
Not for the reasons people on the forums keep whining about either, but because, of all killers, he's literally the most LENIENT. I'm gonna let that sink in for anyone reading this for a moment, because if the Player complaints on these forums are to be believed, he's one of the worst things to happen to DbD because "He has no Counter-play"... (frustrated Groan)
If he actually had no counter-play, I would be right there with them posting comments and ideas for how to balance him, but truth be told, I despise his heavily survivor favored base kit:
He is the only killer in the game that features a whopping 5 separate slowdowns just for using his power to secure a hit on a survivor! At most, other killers only feature 3 slowdowns: The basic attack recovery, power usage, and power cooldown/stun time, but Deathslinger adds to that list Reloading time, AND reeling the damn survivor in, which can take up to 5 seconds. In this game, the killer role is always a battle of efficient Time Management, and the longer you take to down a survivor you're chasing, the more time the other survivors have to complete their objectives, so while other killers can regularly take down a survivor in 15-20 seconds, Deathslinger can take a minimum of 26 and a maximum of 40 to do so. Add in the fact that his Slower than average movement speed already gives him little to no map pressure, and in my opinion, you get the WORST killer in the game.
Yet Here we are, just like with the complaints I've listed against the Pig, players will furiously ######### and moan about how "DeAThSliNGR iz OP, pLz nERf!" in post after post, and I'm tired of it. His only advantages are his TR and performance in a 1v1 scenario, but even then, despite taking so much longer to down a survivor than any other killer on the roster, because of how his power makes survivors feel helpless in the 1v1... He's obviously "OP" and needs to be "Reworked"! (grimace)
I apologize for the off topic rant, I just get so frustrated sometimes when it comes to some players mental gymnastics when they make posts to complain about perceived imbalances. Even here, in this post it'll be no different. I listed those complaints against Pig because, In my past experiences on this forum, it always devolves to them no matter what anyone says, or what counter points anyone argues, so I figured I might as well just get them out of the way before this becomes a cluster ######### of comments and replies all leading to the same inevitable complaints. All because these players simply refuse to accept that they might just have to adapt/change their playstyle a little in order to win against her.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703607#Comment_1703607
Honestly? I think Pig suffers from the same bias as ... a lot of killers... : an unwillingness on surv side to change tactics, thus declaring her OP when the same routine doesn't pan out.
Her base kit changes the game, and if there's one thing I have learned, it's that survivors are lazy and don't like it when their primary strategy for combating killers can no longer be relied on.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703571#Comment_1703571
I thought like Huntress Lullaby they changed Unnerving Presence to only affect gen and healing skill checks?
Nope, Still affects ALL skillchecks, including Overcharge, Madness, Decisive Strike, Jigsaw Boxes, and even Pyramid Head Cages. Sure it requires Terror Radius Proximity to affect them, so maybe that's why they are leaving it alone while nerfing H:HL, either way, I'm as surprised as you are, all things considered.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703571#Comment_1703571
add to that many survivors rushing gen no matter what.
All the matches I escaped against pig usually had a team (swf or not) that knew to 99 gens and get the rtbs off before popping them. (and pig didn't camp anything, of course)
Sorry, Forgot to add the "/s" to mark sarcasm. Honestly, every single time someone posts questions like the OP's, there's always a plethora of survivors that basically state every reason in my list above as the foundation for why she is considered overpowered and must be nerfed into the ground. Less experienced survivors will even claim that her power is "unfair" and "has no counter-play", which of course is ridiculous since you pretty much spelled it all out in your reply that I'm quoting.
So why am I posting the list then? Simple, I'm just trying to beat the rest of them to it so that everyone who sees it will take it into consideration before repeating the points I've already made, which I'm only reiterating based on countless previous posts, in order to speed up the debate. At least this way, whether meant sarcastically or not, people can just get right to debating those complaints instead of drawing it all out for 30 or so comments until they are ultimately stated the way I posted them.
Sigh... I hate how predictable the inevitable comments on these "Pig Related" posts have become, when in reality, the truth is simply that despite all of those listed complaints against Pig, she's far from Over Powered, features lenient counter-play as part of her base kit, and the only reason she is a threat at all is because survivors typically just don't know how to effectively deal with her. It's not surprising though, she does have the 4th lowest pick rate after all, and so she isn't encountered as often as Huntress, Spirit, Doc, or Freddy.
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- Her RBT's ensure that a survivor stops focusing on doing gens and has to run around for up to 2 minutes trying to get it off of their head.
- If they don't get the RBT off of their head before the timer runs out, it kills them.
- Pig can bodyblock the jigsaw boxes to ensure an RBT will kill a survivor.
- Jigsaw boxes skillchecks are affected by Unnerving presence.
- She's stealthy.
- If she has 2 or more survivors with ticking RBT's she can focus on the survivors doing gens instead which stops survivors from doing them efficiently, resulting in slowing the gen progress to a crawl, and hands her an easy win.
- RBT's = same slowdown as "old" Ruin, except it can't be destroyed in the first minute of the match, and it's her base kit so it doesn't take up a perk slot.
"PiG OP, pLZ NeRf!"