THE_Crazy_Hyena
THE_Crazy_Hyena
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It's a buff for 40m TR killers, it's a nerf for killers with a small terror radius
It gave a flat +/- 8 meters before.
So, based on the new percentage, the new numbers would look like this (rounded to nearest full number):
32 meter TR (normal) = 24 meters out of chase (unchanged), 37 meters in chase (down 3 meters)
40 meter TR (large) = 30 meters out of chase (2 meter buff), 46 meters in chase (down 2 meters)
24 meter TR (reduced) = 18 meters out of chase (2 meter nerf), 28 meters in chase (down 4 meters)
16 meter TR (small) = 12 meters out of chase (4 meter nerf), 18 meters in chase (down 6 meters) -
I think in general, there needs to be a check in place whether or not the killer interacted directly with the survivor in any way, leading to their death.
As to make it non-abusable by anyone. -
@Nazzzak said:
Sadly I'm a console player. Planning to watch Slate test it out though. He seems to be the only streamer reserving judgement until he actually tries it out
Ahh.. If only consoles and non-Steam platforms had access to the PTB.
Slate is a good guy, I've watched a lot of his videos regarding various topics surrounding DBD as a whole. -
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
They need to make it so scratched mirror guarantees and indoor map if he has it equipped.
I agree on this. Plus Haddonfield, for the thematic experience
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993706#Comment_3993706
If you're taking that long to catch someone, it's time to drop the chase and push the others off the gens.
Very true. Knowing when to drop chase with someone, if it leads to an unfavorable position for you.
That is the smart way of going about anyways.
If you can at least get a hit, there is no shame in going for someone else who is sitting on a gen. -
… patiently waiting for the PTB and patch notes to drop
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@Choaron said:
For 9 years the biggest problem in dbd was not actually addressing the issue of tunneling
Yes, killers kiling survviors truly was the biggest problem of DBD. Why would anybody queue up survivor to do anything but epic skillchecks.
The biggest problem was not killers killing survivors, but how it was executed.
And some killer players decided to go to extreme lengths to target specific survivors, or to just become toxic and play in a very untasteful manner, which is ZERO fun for the receiving end.This is why it needed to be a change!
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993753#Comment_3993753
Sorry but this must be most on yourself. I play survivor with friends and when we are not up to trolling - like when i go with Chest builds, or my friends run tenacity to be a "super slug" build - we get 2 to 3 man in many of our the matches. We've made a couple of killers DCs sometime ago because we were popping 2 to 3 gens on the first chase. And some of my friends just refuse to run meta perks because they think it just kills the fun - what i disagree, but they are free to run whatever they want. See, we are a bunch of casuals and we don't feel oppressed by "bad tunneling and sluggers". We just play the game.
Now when i play solo…. well, its MMR hell. It can be anything: people trying to take hits right in front of a hook with 0% wiggle progress, some forcing DS against strong killers like Blight, Spirit or Kaneki; people hiding because of killer TR; people who just farm you in front of the killer and leave you to your own luck. Or the other way around, like some god tier randoms that hold the killer for 2 to 3 gens (even more if the killer commit to the fullest); organized bodyblocks and etc.
My point here is that survivor relies more on having 4 good and solid survivor players than anything else. If you get a single weak link it will be a hard match. Should the killer be punished for that? I don't think so. I really would like that they give more info tools for SoloQ than just force killers to play worse.
Now when i play solo…. well, its MMR hell.
… people who just farm you in front of the killer and leave you to your own luckI wonder if the anti-tunnel got implemented because of situations like these, where the incentive lies in ignoring you (being the unhooked), and instead going for the "genuis" who unhooked you right in front of the killer's face.
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@TheGoone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/455184/so-what-do-i-do
I think instakill characters like Sadako are just gonna have to be exempt from these Rules cause if your getting condemned early game that's kinda on you
Well, sometimes there is little to nothing you can do against the condemned play, if the killer knows what they are doing.
I have fallen victim to that strategy one too many times, because getting the tapes is impossible if the Sadako is only playing for condemned stacks. -
Yeah, I am definitely not the only one who made complaints about how loud the main menu and lobby ambience has been.
From the super-loud campfire noise in the survivor lobby, to the zombie groans and flies buzzing in the killer lobby.
I am glad to see this main menu and lobby be a thing of the past soon. -
@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993959#Comment_3993959
tbh maps have too many variables atm a simple map can already be a loss for a side. This (imo) shoudnt even be a thing atp
Exactly. Maps definitely needs to be balanced properly, before you can draw conclusions about balancing killers/survivors.
One less factor to consider -
I can also make a counter-argument about Forgotten Ruins, being on the polar opposite side of the spectrum.
But yes, maps do need some tweaks. I might refer to the post I made, ranking the maps on general balance:@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VRQAQV8SB2PG/my-image-287-29.png
So, after watching a map-related video posted on Youtube, I wasn't all that impressed with the rankings, clearly showing a bias towards the more killer-sided maps, ranking them a lot higher than the ones that skews more towards survivors. Therefore I figured I'd make my own tier-list.
An in-depth description, and reasoning for each map's placement (from my own point of view) can be read below. The TL:DR can be summarized from the tier-list image.Pretty balanced for both sides.
MacMillan Estate - Coal Tower. There is a good reason why this map is ranked so high, because it offers just the right amount of loopable tiles for survivors, and is also sized well for the killer to have an impactful prescence. It has a good gameplay-flow as well.
MacMillan Estate - Groaning Storehouse. Also a fairly balanced map. Not too big, and not too small. Has a decently strong main structure, but not overbearingly so, with plenty of ways for the killer to shut down the loops.
Tile-wise, this map has a decent spread of loopable tiles, and good spacing.MacMillan Estate - Ironworks of Misery. Like the ones mentioned above, it is not too big, and not too small. Main building is decently strong, but not overbearing for the killer. Has decent loops for the survivors, with enough pallets, and the spacing is fair.
Autohaven Wreckers - Wretched Shop. Like the MacMillan maps mentioned above, this one has the right size, the right amount of loopable tiles, and decent spreading of tiles. Has a weaker main structure, but it is made up for by having more pallets around it.
Ormond - Ormond Lake Mine. One of the newer maps, and a damn good one at that. Perfect size, decently strong main structure, and a nice little underpass area through the mine. Tiles are well-balanced and spread out decently well. Has a good gameplay flow, and matches can go in either direction.
Withered Isle - Freddy Fazbear's Pizza. One of the better recently added maps. Decently sized, and has a nice main structure. Decent spreading of loopable tiles, and matches can go either way on this map.
Raccoon City - RPD East Wing. Easily the most balanced, and the smaller one out of the two wings. Offers a good amount of loopable tiles, and a decent amount of pallets. The killer has a much easier time patrolling, since the pathways are fairly straight. The gameplay loop is undoubtedly the best out of all the indoor maps.
Decent balance, but could be better.
Autohaven Wreckers - Gas Heaven. This map used to be horrendously suvivor-sided at one point, but the version we have today is a much more balanced one. However, the spacing of tiles, especially in the middle of the map allows a sizeable deadzone to occur, especially once the resources has been exhausted around the main structure.
Autohaven Wreckers - Blood Lodge. Pretty balanced in theory, but there are usually a lot of "dead tiles" situated around the main structure, making it harder for survivors to pressure this part of the map. Pallet spawns are also nearly non-existent around main.
However, the outer "ring" of the map has easily chainable loops, which makes it harder for the killer to keep up.
I remember when this map used to be called "Pallet Town"Autohaven Wreckers - Wreckers Yard. Fairly balanced, but the spacing of tiles are sometimes a little random, which can create deadzones or very chainable loops. Better consistency goes a long way here.
Coldwind Farm - Torment Creek. Arguably the best out of the Coldwind maps, with good spacing of tiles, a decent amount of pallets, and a decent main structure. The only lacking bit is the side that has corn, which is very open, and offers very little for survivors. Denser corn could help a lot here.
Coldwind Farm - The Thompsons House. This map is pretty good, with a decently strong main building, and a good amount of loopable tiles. It does have a wide open field in the front of the house though, which is not the best for survivors to utilize. However, the tile placements around the edges makes up for that. It could have used a couple more pallets, since once those are gone, the map offers little for survivors to utilize.
The map could easily be 10% larger as well.Forsaken Boneyard - Dead Sands. One of the newer maps added recently. Offers a decent balance between open spaces and loopable tiles, however some tiles are questionable, with the small walls and unsafe windows. Overall though, this map is well thought out, and decently sized.
Ormond - Mt. Ormond Resort. Pretty balanced, with a strong main structure, though outside of the main structure, most loops are low to the ground, with little to no protection against ranged attacks. Other than that, the spacing between tiles is good, and the gameplay flow is decent.
Dvarka Deepwood - Toba Landing. Fairly balanced, and offers good spacing between tiles. Has a decently strong main structure as well. It is on the larger end of size, as far as maps go, so slower killers has some problems with patrolling generators.
Withered Isle - Fallen Refuge. Decently sized. It is a bit inconsistent with tiles, but it offers a good balance of open spaces and pallet loops. Generator spawns tends to be a bit dense in some cases. Bit of a letdown in terms of aestethical choices, as there could have been done a lot more in terms of making it a full-blown Walking Dead map.
Red Forest - Temple of Purgation. Offers decent balance, with a large main structure that offers good looping, but at the same time, it is not too dense with outdoor loops. However, pallet spawns tend to be highly inconsistent, and the potential for dead-zones is fairly high.
Gideon Meat Packing Plant - The Game. The most pallet-dense map, but it is balanced out by the fact that windows are almost non-existent. Has a few problems, where breakable walls would sometimes create dead ends, and the middle part of the upper floor is extremely open.
Silent Hill - Midwich Elementary School. Small in size, but the stacked floor configuration makes up for that. Decent pallet density, and offers a few windows.
The middle courtyard area offers very little of interest though, and is very RNG dependant. It did get a lot better when stuff was added to the open hallways, and it was clearly a step in the right direction.Withered Isle - Greenville Square. Decent map, although it is on the larger end of the scale. Interesting placement of the main structure, being more off to the side, and it is fairly strong to loop. It is a bit difficult for survivors at times, if the generator spawns favors the middle area around the shack. There definitely needs to be a spawn point for generators in the parking lot area, as this part of the map is severely under-utilized.
Other than that, it has a good amount of loopable tiles, and a generous amount of the double pallet loops.Slightly balanced, but it needs a lot more TLC.
MacMillan Estate - Suffocation Pit. One of the more problematic maps, where it is essentially split in two parts. This makes it easy for killers to hold a 3-gen. Aside from that, the middle area is densely packed with tall wall loops, that is easily chainable, and offers a lot for the survivors. Other than that, the tile spawns are somewhat inconsistent with two "dead corners".
MacMillan Estate - Shelter Woods. It has improved considerably from its earlier iteration, but it is still quite inconsistent. Some loops are spread too far apart, and others are packed close together. Generator spawns are also very inconsistent. Pallet density is okay though.
Autohaven Wreckers - Azarov's Resting Place. Another one of the "two halves" maps. Like its MacMillan counterpart, it has some issues. Mainly with generator spawns being very inconsistent, where it can sometimes spawn 5 generators on one side. Other than that, it suffers from a couple dead-zones in two of the corners. This design makes it very easy for the killer to lock down and exhaust one side of the map.
Coldwind Farm - Fractured Cowshed. Decently balanced in terms of tiles, but suffers from being a tad too small, where mobility based killers has a very easy time wreaking havoc. Some parts are a bit open though, and could need some fillers. Definitely on the lower end for pallet density.
Crotus Prenn Asylum - Father Campbell's Chapel. Has a strong main structure, where certain killers might struggle. This structure also chains well into certain tiles. It could have used some more space as well, to spread out the tile spawns a little bit. Other than that, it is decent.
Backwater Swamp - Grim Pantry. This map is more a victim of being the last of the original maps, that hasn't really been updated much. It is serviceable, with decent tile spread, but the random edge-spawns is a bit weird at times. The main building is pretty strong for survivors though, but the map is serviceable enough.
Backwater Swamp - The Pale Rose. Similar to Grim Pantry, but with a weaker main structure. Serviceable, but in desperate need of an update.
Forsaken Boneyard - Eyrie of Crows. Has gotten somewhat better after the update, but it is still quite strong for survivors, with easily chainable loops, that wrap around the entire map. It could use a small size increase, that allows for loops to be spread slightly more apart. At least the main structure has gotten a lot weaker, as compared to what it used to be like.
Léry's Memorial Institute - Treatment Theatre. Pretty strong map for survivors, and stealthy killers. Some rooms has very long walls that is impossible to circumvent, and depending on the tile placement, multiple windows can be chained together in a very long loop. Pallet density is fine.
The Decimated Borgo - Shattered Square. Suffers from low pallet density and lots of dead loops. Very cluttered as well, making it hard for certain killers to properly use their powers without bumping into stuff. Size-wise, it is a fine map.
Dvarka Deepwood - Nostromo Wreckage. Pretty balanced in terms of tiles and main structure, but suffers from being way too cluttered, making it hard for certain killers to navigate without bumping into things.
Grave of Glenvale - Dead Dawg Saloon. Decently balanced in terms of tiles, but it has a strong main structure, a lot of dead zones, and very unfavorable generator spawns. Very inconsistent.
Red Forest - Mother's Dwelling. Has a decent main structure, along with a decent second structure, but suffers from bad pallet density and a lot of dead zones in the outskirts.
At least it was made easier for slower killers to traverse, thanks to the reduction in size.Yamaoka Estate - Family Residence. Decently sized, but suffers from low pallet density and lots of dead-zones, especially around the middle. The main structure is also riddled with breakable walls, that can create really bad dead ends. Needs an extra tile with pallets at least.
Yamaoka Estate - Sanctum of Wrath. Another one of the "two parts" maps, where the middle is occupied by the main structure. This map does not suffer as much from inconsistent generator spawns, but the problem with 3-genning is still there. The main structure offers little for survivors to fully utilize, and also serves as an easy lookout spot for the killer in the end-game.
At least it does not suffer from low pallet density, as there are some decent tiles on either side.Hawkins National Laboratory - Underground Complex. Suffers from the same kind of issues that Léry's has, minus the windows, and more pallets. Generator spawns can be wildly inconsistent, from easy to hold 3-gens, to evenly spread out. Inconsistent gameplay loop, that is for sure.
Aesthetically though, the map is true to the source material, and very well recreated.Raccoon City - RPD West Wing. Suffers more from the typical "indoor map syndrome" where it can be very strong for survivors, and stealthy killers. Can be pretty inconsistent in terms of generator spawns as well, where sometimes the westernmost hallways and rooms will not spawn a single generator.
This wing is also on the larger end, making it difficult for certain killers to patrol properly.Very unbalanced (Killer-biased).
Coldwind Farm - Rancid Abbattoir. This map used to be pretty survivor-biased at some point in time, but now it is absolutely horrible for the survivor side, with the least amount of pallets available on any map, huge dead-zones, and filler tiles. Loops are almost non-existent, with the exception of the main structure, the shack and the "cow tree". It desperately needs more loopable tiles to be a decent map again.
Coldwind Farm - Rotten Fields. Need I say more? Map is a huge dead-zone with little to no loopable tiles. The reduction in corn density also didn't help the survivor side. It is a tiny, wide open map, where killers can run rampant.
Haddonfield - Lampkin Lane. This used to be the de-facto Survivor map in the game, but a few updates later, and it flipped completely to become one of the the most killer-sided maps, thanks to the massive size reduction, the huge dead-zones around the Myers house, the useless edge-tiles, and the wide-open street (or rather, the wide-open highway). Where are the trees and fences?
Not to mention the horrible 3-gen that spawns in and around the Myers house.The Decimated Borgo - Forgotten Ruins. Has a few decent loops, but that's it. If the killer decides to lock down one part of the map, either the outside, or the dungeon, the survivors does not stand a chance at all to do anything about it. Very bad map layout overall, and it would have been a lot better as a single-level map. Easily the most killer-sided map in the game.
Very unbalanced (Survivor-biased).
Springwood - Badham Preschool. Strong main building, and strong side buildings, chained together with loopable tiles all over. This map is a nightmare to hold for most killers. Generators are fairly consistent too, with a pretty even spread.
Crotus Prenn Asylum - Disturbed Ward. Strong main structure, with a fairly chainable outside. Has a few dead zones though, but good survivors will always last long in a chase on this map. Pallet density is somewhat fair, but a few too many inside the main structure, that could be moved elsewhere.
Withered Isle - Garden of Joy. Arguably the strongest survivor map in the game, thanks to the main structure, and the long chain of loops around the edge. The middle part, and the street is also inconsistent, thanks to clutter, and raised parts of the road surface, where killers can bump into seemingly nothing.
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@TheGoon224 said:
just curious because if you get a kill before 6 hook stages you are being hit with 2 nerfs and the survivors get a gen speed boost. Doesn’t that make playing Sadako actively detrimental since you aren’t allowed to condemn kill somebody until you hit six hook stages and at that point, someone is already going to be on death hook? So as Sadako the game punishes you for using your power, efficiently and effectively more than not using your power at all. So if this update goes live i’m gonna have to find myself a new main again because y’all already killed off my previous main in October of last year. Thats all, see ya ✌️
I don't think she would be "dead" after the changes go through, but her playstyle would most definitely need to be changed to accommodate for everything.
We'll have to test her on the PTB later on and see how she fares -
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993602#Comment_3993602
That's a good thing. Survivors need actual side objectives and alternate playstyles again. Invocations are trash, boons got nerfed to be pretty bad most of the time, making it so killers need to down the survivor before they get to a safer area would be an interesting change of pace.
That was my thought process around the timed charge. And seeing how close hooks spawn together these days as compared to how it used to be in the past, I don't see any problems with an alternate way for survivors to fight back.
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I am one of those who absolutely LOVE Wesker.
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@cogsturning said:
The timed charge would need adjusting. Imagine if four people disable four hooks in the same area while also running Boil Over. They could just keep running to their manufactured dead zone. It would take planning and wouldn't be common, but it would happen. I would like to see some new functions though. Tbh I would like to see some new things just in general, but we see how well new things go over round here.
I like the idea of a sabo-only toolbox.
The BNP consuming the toolbox is a good idea. It certainly would be a nerf to me, because if I can't Built to Last it, I ain't bringing it.
But you're really gonna take my Commodious Toolbox from me? 😭
Replaced by the Entity box ;)
I did think about your Built to Last -
@rvzrvzrvz said:
Not sure about your values but definitely they should have nerfed toolboxes and some gen perks in the next patch, deal with tunneling/slug and genrush at the same time was the smart move to keep both sides happy, toolbox builds are "secretly" overpowered right now
Like I mentioned in a previous reply to @SoGo
Numbers can definitely be tweaked if they are too strong or too weak. -
@Coffeecrashing said:
How on earth is it "more healthy" to allow toolboxes to permanently remove a hook from the game?
With a hefty downside of course. It's a one-time use action as well, that also consumes the toolbox, so that it cannot be used for further sabotage
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@SoGo said:
Hmm. I'm not 100% sure how weaker/stronger/better it would be over the current toolboxes. I like the new add-on.
I have made a post on the same topic, here:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453793/my-item-revisions-vol-4-toolboxes
A very good idea as well.
I took more inspiration from the map and key reworks and proposed removing a lot of things that rarely see any use, also to de-clutter the bloodweb as a bonus. Making the innate effects of add-ons stronger, but also taking inspiration from the med-kit changes, like reduced efficiency as a trade off for more speed (inspired by the self-healing change), and introducing a brand new item to replace the Commodious box.
And lastly, reducing the innate strength of toolboxes, especially for gen repairs would help combat the problem with gen-rushing. Of course, numbers can be tweaked if they are too weak/strong -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993423#Comment_3993423
The body blocking I hate is when you're chasing someone for the first time, get one hit, and someone just inserts themselves into the chase. There's no reason for that.
Exactly. There is no reason to do that
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@jesterkind said:
While I agree, it is worth mentioning things have been done to partially address these issues already.
Crows were made stricter (though how strict they currently are is a bit up for debate) and specific immersing perks were nerfed to require more interaction with the game, and for genrushing, survivors spawning all grouped up is a pretty significant blow.
I still think toolboxes need adjusting, but that doesn't mean nothing's been done, y'know?
I too would say that toolboxes needs a pass, in a similar fashion to maps and keys, in order to combat gen-rushing. I might make a separate post with my own ideas on how they could be changed to be more healthy.
Other than that, I would say that survivors has been made very weak, as compared to how they were in the past. Just think about all the changes to the perks, and most of all, the maps that survivors used to thrive on.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993299#Comment_3993299
I and many of the people I play with give killers we feel bad for free kills at end game. So yeah, there is a survivor equivalent of mercy. But as said above, killer mercy isn't a loss for the killer like they are for the survivor. You still win as killer and you can be nice. Win win.
I don't know who feels entitled to mercy though. If anything, I'd just like to not be slugged so the hatch can spawn and I can try for it. It's very pleasant to have it given to me and I like giving it as well, but I never expect it when I play survivor.
There are plenty of plays survivors do that are generally disliked, like taunting or body-blocking mid chase, and just general BMing. I'm not a huge fan of hook denials even as surv. If someone wasted a gen ot two worth of time chasing me, they can have the hooking.
The only time you'd see me body-blocking the killer, is to prevent a tunnel, to buy the poor teammate some much needed time.
We might blast mine them, but that is mostly harmless fun. Most of the time, I stand within range, just watching the spectacle unfold.
But we don't teabag, or BM in that manner anyways :) -
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993399#Comment_3993399
I agree about seeing how the trials playing out over several weeks to see how these proposed changes work out.
I do wish the PBT was more impactful and wider used. There's no MMR and like you said super limited in who can participate. Neither Windows or Epic can use it, despite bothe being on PC, plus none of the consoles can either, and they make up the vast majority of the playerbase.
You are right. I wonder why it is limited to Steam only.
Granted, I have the game through Steam, and have done PTB testing in the past, but I too think that more people should get the opportunity to test out the changes -
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993229#Comment_3993229
Reading comprehension at its finest.
Kill rates are where they are because most survivors are garbage at the game and aren't really trying to win. They come in with meme builds and dance around. Instead of doing gens, they're running after the killer trying to get material for a highlight reel or something. They don't predrop and shift w, like you should against 90% of the killer cast. They get greedy on gens instead of pre-running and shift w'ing into the next zip code with SB and Vigil. Instead, they want to be the next Henz getting a 5 gen chase by greeding the same pallet four times before getting the stun. And even when they do, half the time they start bagging and clicking their flashlight so they can try to CJ tech you or something. Or they'll bring a full healing build so they can watch the healing bar fill up in 6 seconds instead of 16, something that's genuinely only useful in the vast minority of heals.
You don't see killers doing that, do you? I bet almost every match you play, the killer is using the same meta perks over and over. They use the optimal strategies and are consistently trying to win every match that they play.
However, when all four survivors bring meta perks and play safely in chase and actually try to win, they usually do. The gens finish in about 4 or 5 minutes, and you get 3 or 4 survivors out. Even when the big bad killer tries to tunnel them. Because they brought meta perks like DS and OTR.
You sir seem to be stuck in a mindset of "meta this, and meta that".
No, I do not see meta builds all the time. Often times there are variations.
And no, you don't have to play meta to do well in a game. This is what some people have a hard time understanding. I can often last a long time in chase, despite not running any exhaustion, vigil, DS, OTR etc. So that argument of yours is pretty hollow.It's all about "getting serious, while having fun". I often run pretty meme-worthy perks, because they are fun to use, but they often have really good effects hiding behind the meme facade, that seems to be overlooked, thanks to the over-usage of meta perks.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993212#Comment_3993212
Lol.
"I'm going to play an elimination game, as the role that gets eliminated, then cry when I'm the first person eliminated."
You know, there is a role that lets you experience the game from start to finish every time. Your offerings are never "wasted." You get to see every match to its conclusion.
Also, the game is survivor sided. I don't know what "power trip" you're talking about, but the game has literally never been killer sided. If both sides bring the best stuff and play optimally, survivors will win most of the time. The ONLY killers that have a slight edge in this situation are Blight and Nurse. Most of the killers in the game get absolutely wrecked by efficient survivors actually trying to win that don't go down in 15 seconds. Kill rates are where they are because a lot of survivors play poorly. Most of the changes that have been made recently just mitigate survivor mistakes, including this one.
Since when was the game survivor sided?
Last I checked, the average was 40% escape rate, and 45% in a best case scenario, while killers enjoy a kill rate of well over 50% on average. If that isn't killer sided, then I don't know what you are on about.
Also, survivors lost most of their "easy cheese" in 6.1.0, while killers still could face camp, hook grab, slug and tunnel to their hearts content.
Like I said, just chill out and let the patch play out on the PTB before you jump to any conclusions here. -
@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993008#Comment_3993008
Hard disagree. Playing as and against a good SM Myers on an indoor map is the most fun I've had playing this game. The closest it can get to being actually scary.
100% agree here. I have had so many super-fun jumpscare matches on indoor maps.
I don't know how many times I have seen in the end-game chat after the game, people giving me praise for making the game scary again. Like re-living their first matches, when the killer was scary. -
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993171#Comment_3993171
I mean… they're not wrong. At this point, BHVR is like your aunt forcing you to play games with your little cousin, then standing over your shoulder telling you, "Why are you killing him so quickly? You should go easy on him. He's just trying to explore the map and have fun. Why are you so mean?"
And, honestly, the fact that survivors are hyped about these changes is kind of sad. I'd be insulted, knowing that I made a mistake, and the only reason that I didn't get punished for it is because some authority figure told the killer that they have to go easy on me like I'm a little kid. The lack of pride I regularly see from survivors is pathetic. "Here's my fwashwight, Mistah Killah! Pweeeease wet me go uwu?"
You should chill out dude. Let it play out on the PTB first before jumping to any conclusions.
But in all honesty, if it does go through, I am not lying when I say that I am glad that the killer "power trip" that has been going on since 6.1.0 is finally about to balance out.I do agree that survivors used to be incredibly overpowered in the past, but you killer mains has had a very easy time since then, with overpowered things on your side too.
I'm not saying this to argue, but to state the facts.As for the survivor HUD, it was made that way for the benefit of those poor souls who play mostly solo queue, which is the closest experience you can come to being in hell when it comes to this game.
At least with the status symbols, soloQ players has the opportunity to see what their teammates are up to. Those were good QoL features that were brought into the game.Also, not wanting to sound like a broken record:
I mean… they're not wrong. At this point, BHVR is like your aunt forcing you to play games with your little cousin, then standing over your shoulder telling you, "Why are you killing him so quickly? You should go easy on him. He's just trying to explore the map and have fun. Why are you so mean?"
Because who enjoys being unable to play and interact with the game for more than a minute before the killer decided to tunnel them out? I don't know a single person who likes getting tunneled out immediately.
Also due to how grindy the game is, would you have liked getting robbed of your hard-earned Bloody Party Streamer, if you got tunneled out at 5 gens remaining, barely earning any points at all, and feeling like you totally wasted a good offering on nothing.
Would you enjoy that?And no, it is not about mistakes or authority figures. It's about offering a better experience for all players. You don't have to play in a rotten way, just because you can.
I can go on for a while, but I am not going to preach for deaf ears here, like @Aven_Fallen tried
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@MagicDragon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992911#Comment_3992911
what killer complaints were fog vials supposed to address
I think that list would take me the rest of the day to write down, but the short of it was the outcry about them being seen as a cheap way for survivors to have another way of losing the killer in a chase.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992908#Comment_3992908
I feel like I'm mid MMR on both roles but I don't know what it matters. They just dump you in any lobby anyway.
You'd think I'm high MMR for killer with the matches I've been getting lately. Every survivor has been sweaty and skilled with meta builds.
I love throwing compliments to killers who had a bad match but played well and fair. At least I can respect them. Had a Michael once who got 0 kills but scared the crap out of me like four times with jump scares. Was more than happy to tell him so. Friendly interactions are the best.
So, like me whenever I play killer, you often see the same perks on rotation. Mostly Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Lithe, Finesse, Windows etc, and the survivors knows how to loop well.
No meme or unconventional perks like we use to run ourselves :D
And yes, friendly interactions are truly the best. Always best to say GG if the game was truly good, or just move on to the next if it wasn'tSpeaking of.. I also see hidden offerings a lot, along with mostly personal offerings. Hardly any anniversary cakes or BPS.
But all in all, I really don't think the MMR matters anyways, since in the grand scheme of things, we do get close to a 45/45/10 split of matches that go either way in the killers or our own favor, and very rarely even matches.
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@MagicDragon said:
every time they've introduced something to "address survivor complaints" i remember them nerfing it to the point where it's completely ineffective. why do people think this will be any different?
Same can be said about the "addressing killer complaints" regarding the fog vials, which are now nerfed into the ground.
Remember, the door swings both ways. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992829#Comment_3992829
Funny thing, every discussion I've had with killer mains in this forum about these changes eventually devolves into "you must be low MMR" and "your stats must be awful" so you're exactly right. The argument gets to the point where there's nothing left for them to do but go "u r a loser" or "do you even play killer??"
I have had a few such discussions too. I know what you mean.
But I know for a fact that we are not low MMR, especially on survivor, considering how often we are actually pitted against killer players who knows how their character works, down to every little minute detail, like that Wesker in our last match on Eyrie.
Even though we got a 3-man out, he was still humble about it, and liked us giving him credit for the amazing hug-techs that he pulled off. He was good, no doubts about that. Just unlucky with the map -
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992511#Comment_3992511
This. Plus it's not super tight as far as I'm aware. It's there but not very noticeable often times.
Yes, that is true. Looping back to the old Choy video, talking about the MMR ranges, the skill range is quite big in some cases, where you are essentially placed in a big pool of players, ranging from average to decent, and from decent to top-10 level.
(this point is mostly applicable to the survivor queue) - At first when you queue for a match, you will normally get matched against someone of approximately the average skill level of your group, so let's make this example:Survivor #1 has 700 hours played, is sitting at around an average of 40% escape rate, and their MMR is around 1100. So an average player.
Survivor #2 has 1500 hours played, is sitting at around an average escape rate of 48%, and their MMR is around the 1400-1500 range.
Survivor #3 has only 150 hours played, is sitting at around an average escape rate of 30%, and their MMR is around 800 points.
And lastly, survivor #4 has 6000 hours played, is escaping over 50% of the time, and has an MMR of 2000+
In this example, the averages of the group is added together, and the optimal range for a killer would be someone with 1500-2000 hours, a kill rate of 60-65% and at an MMR of around 1400 points.
This is all fine and good, until the killer decides to leave the lobby, causing a backfill to happen.
This is where everything can spiral out of control.
1. You get a killer that has around 200 hours played, has a kill-rate of 50% or less, and an MMR of 800 or less.
2. You get another average killer, with 600-800 hours played, a 55-60% kill-rate and an MMR of around 1100-1200 points.
3. You get matched against a comp killer, with 10,000+ hours played, an ungodly kill-rate and an MMR rating of 2100. -
@SpitefulHateful said:
It's not the "4K mindset", it's the "must win to be considered a human being" mindset—and it's the very old issue of the gaming community. Winners are gods, they get all the respect, their opinion matters, their word is hear, they get praise and rewards and expect adoration. Losers are barely people in the gamers' eyes—their only purpose is to be humiliated, ridiculed, and dragged through the dirt, not to mention harassed beyond the game. Their time gets wasted, they don't get to argue, they don't even deserve to use some measures against the abuse—just eat the dirt, leave no crumbs, smile and nod because you lost, so you don't deserve to be treated well.
No matter what anyone says, the "just be chill" excused don't work in multiplayer game, DBD in particular:
New to the game? — not my problem, baby, ur trash, ez, delete the game
Just trying a fun build? — loser, trash, dog, bark for us, lmao
Not trying to win — lmao you're just used to being a loser, hahah, we're so good
The worst part? At the end of the day, everyone blames those who find themselves at the receiving end for reacting instead of acknowledging that BMing options should be taken away. So, until this "winning is everything" mindset goes away, this issue will remain.
It's sad because it is true.
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@CrypticGirl said:
As usual, the first pushback is "It's not wrong to want the 4k." Which is also part of the flawed Killer mindset.
By which I mean, no, it's not wrong to want the 4k or try for it, but it's the refusal to accept that not getting the 4k is not the end of the world. So they relied on these cheap strategies that took too little skill on the Killer side to pull off with massive rewards, while it took MASSIVE skill on the Survivor side to counter, 99% of the time ending in failure on their part.
If Killers can just learn to get their 4k's without tunneling and slugging, then those victories would be much more well-earned.
The harder you work towards your goal, the better you'll feel when you reach it.
The harder you work towards your goal, the better you'll feel when you reach it.This is absolutely true. Going the easy route just feels like a hollow victory. But a hard-earned win is a whole different story.
I always take the more challenging route myself, because it feels so good to get the win if you work hard for it.
Of course, I tend to lose more than I win when I play in my normal manner, but I respect that the other team did better, and played their cards right.I also firmly believe that the finisher mori definitely made the "must go for the 4K" mindset a lot worse.
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I too love to run Scratched Mirror, for the jumpscare factor especially.
I would hate to see those get reworked, and that playstyle phasing into obscurity -
@cogsturning said:
This topic came up in another post so I'm giving it its own.
1. Make the hook states visible to killers.
Many players often ask for this. The argument against it has been that it could encourage specifically targeting people with more states. But with the game now baking-in the need to spread hooks, states need to be visible. Expecting killers to keep track while also constantly trying to find people and engage in chases is too much, and if there's going to be punishments, accidental tunnels need to be mitigated. Killers should also know when teammates allow each other to go second stage.
2. Give survivors unique aura colors that correspond with a border around there HUD image.
When I play survivor, I do my best to be stealthy and avoid the killer, so I'm proposing something that might actually harm me, but I think it would better for the game overall. With basekit aura read on top of aura perks, killers should be able to easily identify who is where so they can better choose who to go for next. If tunneling is to truly be combated (and I really want it to be) then it has to be easier for killers to know what to do next.
Wholeheartedly agreeing on this my friend
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991919#Comment_3991919
The doomsdaying has been wild to behold. Most of this is going to have such a minimal impact, especially once it's all nerfed.
I get hard tunneled all the time and I also bring non meta perks, focus on gens, and don't BM. It's much easier to target the objective-based players than the ones with chase builds. I think they're trying to address that with this. Too many killers are getting easy wins by targeting players weaker at chase but who get the objective done.
They do have problems with those that are objective-focused, and are also decent in chases ;)
You know what I mean -
Do you use Epic?
I have a friend who has the same issue in any mode. 1v4 and 2v8 alike. -
@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991231#Comment_3991231
Yeah all grouped up running at you at shack, 8 hooks with a C tier and still at 5 gens. Definitely a good group. No offense but I can definitely see why people who share your opinion have it if that's what you consider a good team. Will not be responding to anything you say after seeing that
Obviously you didn't read it all, or just skimmed through it, but the match was not just spent running circles around the shack. You painted your own picture, by just looking at the screenshot
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991056#Comment_3991056
DBD players always have a way to twist situations into being fault of the player
Strong SWF will be completely invincible to any M1 killer after these changes but of course it has to be twisted to sound like that's not the case, instead we are simply removing "crutch tools". Suggesting that there is no other nuance to it is either stupid or just choosing ignorance
How often do you actually encounter a full-strack SWF anyways
And no, they won't be completely invincible to M1 killers. You just have to learn how to play around it. Simple as that!
Besides, playing around an SWF group is not hard at all. This example should be a good pointer:
Here, the SWF group completely gave up, because I pressured them too hard (Names has been censored for obvious reasons).
Granted, I was playing Doc, but he is still an M1 killer. Even so, I had 8 hook states (spreading hooks between all before re-hooking even), and they had not done a SINGLE gen in that time. Even the abandon feature triggered for me as a result.I ended up just messing around with them in the end, and let them go, but the point is that you can indeed do well with an M1 killer, without resorting to cheesy tactics. You just have to play around your own character's strengths and weaknesses.
And my best advice is to never get tunnel-vision.
Don't get me wrong, but these players were actually good. They knew well how to chain loops together, and they probably had a lot of combined hours. I just simply played better in my role that game. -
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989074#Comment_3989074
You'd be hardpressed to find anyone here who hasn't asked for an MMR overhaul. But a mismatched MMR goes both ways - youll get your more experienced teams that steamroll you, but on the flipside you also get your less experienced in teams that you steamroll in turn. Neither are fun. OP has said they are consistently having losses, with 4 slowdowns needed for 1 kill, and hard tunnelling, camping, and slugging necessary for 2 kills. That's unusual, even accounting for the shoddy MMR system.
I know I have been an advocate for MMR to be overhauled at a few points in time.
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Scooby in DBD would be amazing
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@vol4r said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XDQP74T01YZL/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Q9KTZ2Z303QO/image.png
This guy didn't know he played against 30k hours swf and lost a match - which he wasnt happy about :(
So I decided to leave him some positive comment.
Our little interaction was wholesome and I just wanted to share some positivity :)
why would anyone downvote this?
This is indeed a wholesome interaction -
@cogsturning said:
Killers are getting buffed. I'm about to have a hasted killer find me with basekit aura reading and get increased damage on my gen just for hooking someone. Both sides are gonna have to change. The shake up will be good to rattle everyone who's let their playstyle get stale and repetitive.
I 100% agree. We need a shake-up of the current state of the game
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I have seen so much negativity around the new change.
To all the naysayers: Let's test it on the PTB first and foremost. -
I think that is a bit overdramatic. If you don't know how to play killer without resorting to cheese tactics, then now is the time to learn the smarter plays.
First off, don't over-extend chases. If someone runs you into an area with a lot of windows and pallets, then see if you can force the survivor to drop some pallets at least, and then call off the chase, and go for someone else.
Pressure generators and keep one area on the map "yours". If done right, then the survivors will have to work hard in order to put any pressure on you.Just learn the way to apply pressure, even if there are 4 opponents
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@EinRaikou said:
Until everyone stops playing killer when they realize that, just like with go next, innocents get caught in the cross-fire. These changes are too extreme and I expect we will see on PTB how much of an impact they will have on Kill rate vs escape rate.
How does the 6 hooks work when someone is left on hook to die?
Are we going to see more slugging to avoid hooking survivors back to back (i bet we will)
We except we are going to see vastly decreased ability from killers to apply pressure to gens.
We are going to see even more gen regression perks than we are already seeing.
You are going to see more aggressive plays from survivors (most likely from SWFs) TRYING to get hooked back to back to negatively affect the killer.
Anyone who thinks these changes are great and going to go over well are likely survivor mains that EXPECT to escape every game. They should NOT have introduced this many changes at once, and gradually rolled them out. When the game state is a mess next patch, they will have a harder time of knowing which of the 25 changes are causing it.
If someone gets left on the hook, then it is obviously the survivor teams' own fault. But like some have stated, these changes needs to be extensively tested before they go live.
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The animation bug is ever persistent I see.
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@Abbzy said:
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
This is super strong sometime you will find the uhooked and you cant spend more time looking for others or down him in bad place so now what you will slug him?
Overall the changes look not that bad but only problem I have is how long it will take so all kilkers can play against experienced survivors with these changes meaning weaker killers like from low b-tier to trapper, skull merchant if I remember corretly it will take one year (if their rework or buff wont be badly done) to get skullmerchant rework,trapper rework, mayers rework and tricster rework which isnt even half of the killers which will struggle a lot and this will only have one effect which is happening right now and will get even worse after this on higher mmr there will be same killers on and on no killer variety which some survivors are complaining about now. This will only force people to change mains from ghostface, legion and simular weak killers to more powerfull ones to have more fluid and chill games with option to go after another survivor without tunneling. What do you think?
This is what I currently do if the recently unhooked one is running back into me, I will down them for someone else to come and pick them up, while searching for the others. That means there are two survivors not working on generators. Or with the anti-slug, the downed survivor will be out for 90 seconds. That's one full gen worth of progress.
There are PLENTY of ways to play around the new mechanics, but the days of slugging someone, just to hump on them while the bleedout timer is going down are gone.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
If this means the mirror addons, tombstone addons, and infinite tier 3 addons are getting deleted, then I’m all for this rework.
Scratched Mirror must never be touched!
NEVER LET JUMPSCARE MYERS DIE!