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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730951#Comment_2730951
It's already a slippery slope, or we wouldn't be here... talking about a literal in game mask that ties in with killer lore being used and abused by certain people, targeting certain players, and likely being openly racist while doing so.
Tell me what slippery slope have I gone down that we havent already seen
The one you just described.
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730497#Comment_2730497
Yeah, they’re giving the racists what they want, the removal of the masks which involve poc.
Ah, so what you're saying is that both sides are on the same page with regards to the removal of the masks. :P
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730933#Comment_2730933
If they were being racist and being reported then they should have already been banned. And if they make new accounts then those accounts will be reported and banned as well.
You're right, removing the problem item is one solution. That's a pretty easy choice to make and an easy mistake to make too. What else can be considered racist now? Sexist? Homophobic? Transphobic?
Do we continue this cycle of removing content from the game? Do we remove people of color from the game so that they aren't targeted for playing people of color?
Where do the easy choices stop?
No slippery slope fallacies, please. :P
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730794#Comment_2730794
You are too, so I don't think you really have one up on me here.
Show me a reason not to assume the default and we can continue this discussion. Otherwise, we're done here.
I never made a claim on the severity on this issue.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730656#Comment_2730656
Common sense? Personal experience? The majority of players not being screamingly racist and instead being here to play the game? What information do you have to prove otherwise? Because if you want to tell me that a significant portion of this playerbase griefs based on race, I think you're the one holding the burden of proof here.
I'm certainly not going to assume anyone who was using the Smartface mask was racist until they did something to corroborate that. Take any of the following.
-Chat abuse
-Facecamping/nodding/hitting a Claudette/Elodie/Tapp/Adam while ignoring all other survivors, and deliberately letting everyone who is white escape. Facecamping/nodding/hitting everyone he catches is kind of just a Bubba thing at this point.
-The above also has to happen devoid of any other context; i.e., if the targeted player was tbagging the Bubba or got a flashlight save on him, the Bubba may just be salty.
If we're going to assume everyone who used Smartface was racist, or even Schrodinger's racist, that is a problem.
So you are making a baseless assumption is what I am reading.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730607#Comment_2730607
I'm not really interested in pursuing this metaphor, as I don't think it reflects the situation at hand. When it was nonstop, it was the acts of a few people at most repeatedly targeting the same player. The number of players who used Smartface to harass are an extremely small portion of the playerbase who had a disproportionate effect because they were not dealt with in a timely manner.
If we are going to keep going with this metaphor, I'd still say arrest the people, because eggs are important foodstuffs and necessary to bake so many things, and I want them as food more than I don't want them as tools of harassment; eggs bring more good to the table than they bring bad. Banning eggs because people have been egged is silly. That said, I consider eggs more important than Bubba cosmetics and this whole thing falls apart really quickly.
Still... I maintain that the issue is the people, not the vehicle. Removing Smartface did nothing to stop the people who want to be racist twats from being racist twats, and they are still going to be racist twats until BHVR addresses the real problem in this room and cobbles together a moderation system that doesn't operate on spit, triplicate, and month-long backlogs.
"The number of players who used Smartface to harass are an extremely small portion of the playerbase who had a disproportionate effect because they were not dealt with in a timely manner."
Based on what information?
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730517#Comment_2730517
I mean, yes, but now nobody gets to have eggs and you still have racist neighbors that have it out for you.
Because this is less about you personally leaving a basket of eggs out on the lawn and more that eggs exist.
I dislike this change because it lets BHVR pretend like they're doing something about their awful community without having to actually deal with their awful community. I truly doubt that removing Smartface is going to reduce instances of racist behavior at all, because it is sidestepping the issue that moderation is really slow and user-unfriendly and players can get away with so much garbage before they finally get the boot because action on BHVR's part takes so. damn. long. The situations where a PoC streamer gets matched with or streamsniped by a racist shitheel - is the outcome actually going to be any different now that the shitheel doesn't have Smartface? I'm not convinced.
Seems to me like the problem here is the racist neighbors not getting evicted, not the basket of eggs.
What do you do when lots of people are throwing eggs from your basket to your house nonstop?
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@BenihimeWrath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730517#Comment_2730517
This is sound reasoning and all, but where does it end? If it continues happening, are you going to go to all the stores in your area and demand they stop selling eggs? Go to all the farmers where the eggs come from and tell them to start raising other animals?
You can't ever stop these things in their entirety and all you do by removing things like this is show them that what they were doing really bothered you. So then they'll KEEP doing it. By any avenues left to them, and likely more vehemently than ever. Nothing infuriates people like this more than your indifference.
No slippery slope fallacies, thank you.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730221#Comment_2730221
Except for epilepsy, straight up removing flashlight strobing resolves their issue and they can be happy.
The same way they were able to remove skins in order to prevent harassment, they should also remove a mechanic that not only is hurtful emotionally, but also physically for some.
I mean, sure. I'm in support of that.
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@Pukenplag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730184#Comment_2730184
Urgh, I knew that would turn up sounding bad lol. By no means do I support racism lol. What I actually meant to say is that telling people to stop playing because of a condition is as absurd as telling people to no longer play because they are getting harassed by racists.
I'd equate the epillepsy thing a little more to telling someone not to eat peanuts because of an allergy.
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@Pukenplag said:
I love how people use the argument of "one is hurting your feelings and one is racism".
Do you know why racist harassment made with the smartface mask cause? Hurt feelings.
Hurting people's feelings and making them feel trash is unacceptable, no matter if it's done through racism or taunting and bullying.
There is also the issue with photosensitive epileptics. Apparently, people don't care about these fellows, that anyway get a huge ton of ######### on life for their condition. They don't care that flashlight spamming is a stimulus for seizures. They just say "don't be gaming if you have this condition". Couldn't I say "don't be gaming if you have this skin color" for the people that unfortunately got bullied by stupid racists? In both cases, people are suffering due to vile people, because they were born in a certain way.
But of course we only care about combating racism, not cyber bullying and straight up intentionally causing others to have seizures.
Maybe we should value combating both, just saying.
"They just say "don't be gaming if you have this condition". Couldn't I say "don't be gaming if you have this skin color" for the people that unfortunately got bullied by stupid racists?"
Do you want to actually support your stance with this argument?
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730003#Comment_2730003
I'd rather someone type it here in a resumed way than having to watch a video 36 minute video ngl.
So I'll just make a simple question:
Is someone using the smartface mask and facecamping a PoC considered racist?
It is if they are intentionally targeting the PoC for being PoC. Of course, it's very easy for them to feign innocence when accused because there's no reliable way to confirm this, allowing them to slip by under the radar undetected (or even detected, tbh).
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@Veinslay said:
I've had LGBTQ and PoC streamers wearing the pride charm call me trash and tell me to kill myself on their stream for camping them during the end game collapse. Can we get rid of that charm too?
Were the people using the Bubba mask to perpetuate racism black?
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@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729260#Comment_2729260
I dont want to take it even more far, but are you guys considering removing the Rainbow-Flag-Charm since people are getting harassed for using it? I personally got often facecamped and insulted as many disgusrting things just because I used this charm.
With that logic I am kinda worried that we could lose it aswell.
They didn't remove the Bubba masks because the people wearing the Bubba masks were being harassed, so you should be fine.
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I think I can vaguely recall maybe one person saying Coup was OP during the PTB.
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@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729599#Comment_2729599
So you are telling me that removing a single mask bad, and removing all good, try to don't think in controversies and only community wise, you are a player, are you happy for having all the masks removed instead of just only one? also in the only killer along with Freddy who has no cosmetic aside the prestige ones. Alligning you with the removal of all masks is like being more catholic than the pope.
Leatherface has cosmetics.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729172#Comment_2729172
So... not better moderation. Not changing the content so that it can no longer be used in a hateful way (there were talks of changing the faces to having survivor keepsakes attached to them, and that would have been delightful.)
Just removing content. And the niftiest way to unlock content, at that.
It's really not hard for people to continue to be racist asshats using other things in the game. Removing the faces is not going to fix this problem. You will still have dipshits going after every Elodie, Claudette, Adam, people with pride charms, etc. The issue is with disgusting people playing the game. They'll always find ways to be disgusting for as long as they're allowed to continue playing.
"Not changing the content so that it can no longer be used in a hateful way (there were talks of changing the faces to having survivor keepsakes attached to them, and that would have been delightful.)"
That would require the IP holders to sign off on it. If it is true that the IP holders were preventing BHVR from removing the cosmetics (until recently, at least), then I doubt they'd approve of your suggestion.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729323#Comment_2729323
There's the DBDLeague Discord which shows the killer pool, the rules, the restrictions, etc.
Many thanks.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729206#Comment_2729206
Some killers have perks that are banned specifically for them, how ever there is a pool of perks that are just banned al together. To name a few:
Haunted Grounds, Deadlock, Blood Favor, Plaything.
And to name a few Survivor perks:
All Boons, Blast Mine, Self Care, MoM, Built to Last, Object, Prove Thyself, Flashbang
There is also a rule for Survivors that they can't stack perks, so if one person runs Sprint Burst no one else can, how ever there can be 2 BT's.
This is going off of DbD League rules, different organizers will have different rulesets
Interesting. I don't suppose that there is a link to something that allows me to read up on this? :o
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@Shroompy said:
Time for another perk to be banned in comp lmao
What's banned in comp, out of curiosity?
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As soon as you find your first gen (assuming no one else is on it), quickly tap it. If Ruin is active, the gen will regress the moment you let go.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727073#Comment_2727073
This is just the first part of the update, I'd wait until part 2 before calling it survivor focused.
Ah, so they're finally going to give Survivors guns. /s
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Heyyy, I pitched that exact idea they're doing with the status icons a long time ago. Neat.
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@Gaala said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727065#Comment_2727065
Yeah. For Special Attack is basically all attack that inflict damage (Hatchet, Legion FF) and maybe yes, they should apply Franklin. But not if the item is dropped on killer feet. I don't use it a lot, so i didn't even know.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727061#Comment_2727061
Yes, but if they change, in this case, Sloppy to activate even on special attack, you can decide to actually use sloppy as a perk, and take other addons, or sacrifice one addons for only the mangled effect (the addons don't give hemorrage) and equip a different perk.
That defeats the point of separating perks and add-ons and, as I said to the other person, it's just lazy.
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Drop the basic attack requirement and cooldown from Jolt/Surge.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727005#Comment_2727005
It would take into effect twice if you hit with a special attack
That does not mean it makes sense to have a perk and an add-on that do the exact same thing. Again, lazy design.
@Gaala said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727005#Comment_2727005
Unfortunately, that lazy design is common on most of the reworked addons. We have hatchet, bear trap and Bubba chainsaw that inflict Mangled. We have Shop Lubrificant (Bubba) that his a low level Knock Out. We have Metal Spoon (Nurse) that's basically Stridor. Black Box (Nightrmare) that is too a low level Blood Warden.
At least the ones that inflict Mangled have some sorta purpose to exist since Sloppy currently only works with basic attacks (which is why I'm not a fan of OP's idea). But yes, I get what you mean.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726988#Comment_2726988
Saves you a perk slot though
That's lazy design that defeats the point of separating add-ons and perks
Also, it most certainly does not if you propose stacking them. Not to mention that if you're only using that version of Sloppy, then all the add-ons that inflict Mangled are just pointless wastes of bloodpoints.
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PSA: Hacking - DC Penalty =/= Less/No Hacking
Hacking - DC Penalty = Hacking + Rampant DCing
Contrary to what some people believe, removing the DC penalty would make the gameplay experience worse, not better.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726979#Comment_2726979
But if they stack and you run both, then double mangled
I don't want add-ons that are essentially functionally identical to perks. That is lazy design.
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@SUGR0B said:
Judging by the answers, the killers left not only the game, but even from this forum.
Your idea does not fix the biggest advantage SWF gets by far, which is the communication.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726970#Comment_2726970
But what if they buffed mangled to stack multiple times
You'd have multiple add-ons that are straight-up just worse Sloppy.
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They'd have to do something to avoid invalidating any and all add-ons that inflict Mangled.
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@brokedownpalace said:
I run Open Handed with Kindred and Bond sometimes. It's a fun build.
I run it with Kindred and Windows of Opportunity. Lets me see the Killer from miles away and gives me a HUGE view of where unused pallets are.
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The chapter was revealed to take place in a virtual reality simulation, and it was very disappointing as a result.
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I wanna see a change where a Survivor can guarantee Kobe off the hook (if you do it within the first 30 seconds of Stage 1) in exchange for automatically being one hook away from being sacrificed. Meanwhile, you can no longer kobe once the Exit Gates are powered, and an active Deliverance would let you self-unhook even when the Gates are powered and replaces the extra hook state penalty with the temporary broken status effect (essentially letting it function as it currently does).
Now self-unhooking is a high stakes commitment rather than RNG.
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@Zachcjjj said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723869#Comment_2723869
eh i do like that idea in general but 2 stacks would be way funnier
As long as it has such a convoluted activation requirement, stacks or no stacks really makes no difference.
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Pebble should just have a normal cooldown. It is for sure not strong enough to have as many conditions to it just to use it once.
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@Clevite said:
But doesn't the stress come from your own expectations and win conditions.?
It's wanting that 4k, every game, then failing to get it that brings on a stress reaction.
If we all could really accept any result and enjoy just playing, wouldn't that make the game less stressful?
IMO, that happens when a PvP game does not bother to establish win conditions. It then falls upon the players to decide upon themselves what their goals are. Because there is no central win condition to focus around, it then becomes impossible to please all the players and their various personal standards that they had to set for themselves, which results in a number of those players becoming frustrated/stressed.
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Killers don't need to 4k, but Survivors don't need to escape. ;)
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@Phasmamain said:
Probably never. Licensed maps are literally all bad and despite any reworks they have received have stayed that way
Body is 1 character too short.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720735#Comment_2720735
it starts with 3 minutes then increases with each dc for a span of I think 24 hours,
I am pretty sure the minimum penalty time is 5 minutes.
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Isn't the minimum DC penalty time longer than the time it takes to fully bleed out (5 minutes vs. 4 minutes)?
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This is a pretty broad and vague thought, but I think what is needed is two-fold: Find out what the most miserable and unfun strategies are and weaken them, and simultaneously find ways to make the more fun strategies actually better. Like, for camping and/or, find a way to weaken the strategy of forcing a single person out of the game while actually finding a meaningful way to make spreading out hooks a more viable and enticing strategy beyond "at least I'm not upsetting the other side as much."
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They've already stated that they'll punish someone for going AFK if enough people report them. Going AFK and clicking repeatedly would not change that.
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Flashlights are weak. Even in a dedicated SWF team.
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@Chordyceps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716086#Comment_2716086
Sure you can, R6S was arguably worse after operation health.
At the risk of going off-topic, I am admittedly curious to hear how.
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Ehhh, not sure Myers should have Tombstone Piece, tbh. Pig absolutely needs improvements, but I don't think the RBTs should be made that much deadlier than they currently are.
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I'd say if people are disincentivized to try and win because the game makes that a frustrating endeavor, that sounds more like an issue with the game than the player.
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@tesla said:
Basement scourgehooks would be awful against a hag or some killer with agitation + iron grasp. I think there could be more scourge hooks instead, but not in basement. Otherwise it would need a long cooldown.
I think Monstrous Shrine should make Basement Hooks Scourge Hooks. That way, there's at least a commitment to want to take advantage of it.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710855#Comment_2710855
Im up for DS stun to 7sec, but it disable the moment 5 Gen done.
I dont tunnel and current DS punishes me more than tunnelers.
- They eat DS? No problems, 5sec doesnt hurt, they will continue to tunnel because survivors no more have DS.
- Me not tunneling and not eating DS, doesnt matter, Im forced to eat DS when Gates are opened.
That doesn't sound like the worst idea, tbh.