SmarulKusia
SmarulKusia
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@Laluzi said:
A modern city map would be phenomenal. I'd love a Seoul nights kind of map for Yun-Jin and Trickster, though their studio is more likely to get chosen if they ever get a map. Seriously, though, dark alleyways and neon lights would make for such an aesthetic - you could create a few traversible buildings as loops, streets and parking lots for dead zones, create jungle gym tiles out of alleys or crumbling/ruined buildings, add a fire escape or two for a second floor area, and fence it in with a wall of high-rises, two of which can be entered as exit gates. That chapter's menu background remains my favorite to this day and it's a crying shame they didn't drop with a map.
It absolutely would, It would be amazing to run through alleyways, running through broken fences, or having to hop over a wall or two.
Navigate yourself through a ran-sacked ground floor shop, that is the bottom of a 5-story building and etc. Night lights shining onto a middle road.. God.. It would be amazing.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206861#Comment_3206861
tbh all non-licensed chapters should at least have one map. really not an excuse especially after they finish the realm beyond
I agree, I feel like there is so much potential. Their rule-of-thumb tends to be the fact that maps are the killer's world, something that is important or sacred to them, but I don't see why it ALWAYS has to be a killer. It'd be cool, for once, to see a survivor map of a haunting memory.
Create a studio map, with a stage, where Trickster was killing all his staff, and Yun-Jin was about to be next. Create a Night-Street map where a majority of Survivors got taken. Anything.
@WipeIncGamingYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207092#Comment_3207092
My dictionary says that a city is the center of a town. Please explain to me why the Dead Dawg Saloon is not the center of the town.
That is.. not a city. A city is the next thing up FROM a town, just how a town is the next best thing after a village. Calling DDS a town in of itself is generous, as it seems like a passerby village more than anything. If anything a City is a coalition of several Towns that turn into 'neighbourhoods' of the city. A centre of a town is usually just called Town Centre.. lol
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@WipeIncGamingYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/348406/can-we-get-a-city-map
Another city map, like, let's say, "Dead dawg saloon"?
How is that a city map?
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
we need more modern looking maps for sure.
I am just so disappointed, they hint those themes or that kinda map so heavily and then either don't release a chapter map, or do it for something so miniature. There is nothing interesting in the Temple map we got for Oni, I dislike that map out of the two, and there was quite literally no hint in the teaser for it.. Not even when Yui 'enters' the realm. :/
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203092#Comment_3203092
The survivor failed in the chase causing them to be downed, survivors ready to try for the save and you down them failed at getting the save there is many ways a killer or survivor can fail in the match not just the basic kill or escape.
Killers slug for pressure and the fact that sometimes you can steamroll if the survivors are hanging around for the save and you can 1 shot them i.e Myers tier 3, why would a killer pick up the first one when they can down the survivors close by ready to try and get the save and ending up with 2-3 on the ground because of the choice the survivors made to hang around for the save.
Slugging is far from a crutch as there is times when you need to slug, forced to slug i.e survivor goes to a dead zone and with boil over they know you won't be able to hook them the counter to that is to slug them and let them bleed out.
The changes do nothing more then making it more easy for survivors and forcing killers into a lose/lose spot, how would survivors act if they made PGtW base kit to help putting pressure on gens and to stay away from the hook?
No.
A chase is either an opportunity for the team to rush generators, or for the killer to cut the generator repair time.
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@FinestFantasyVI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200429#Comment_3200429
You wouldnt understand that as a survivor main. But when a toxic bully swf gets in your head, you dont think rationally and usually the next squad takes the heat for your sweat. It is what it is.
It literally doesn't matter, if someone is being toxic to you and you decide to bully someone who had nothing to do with it, then you're a child and weak-minded. Know when to take a break or know to not force out anger on people that weren't involved in upsetting you.
Despite the times that I get frustrated in games, I am never going to take it out on a random stranger.
@Entitled_survivor said:
So basically killer face camped every hook but you still couldn't finish your gens and get a 2 man out? Sounds interesting
We were on RPD, with the killer running Starstruck whilst also playing with teammates that were far too altruistic for a save. We had two gens (I think? It's been a few days now and don't remember the game exactly).
@Yankus said:
I think a lot of killers are made salty by BMing survivors. Every single game has at least 1 who BMs all match and then they'll sit at the exit gates tbagging until there is 1 second left. Every. Single. Game.
That is not true, neither you or me can prove that statistically, so don't make that claim. Also, if a random stranger is toxic to you, take it out on them or grow up. Don't be toxic to others that had nothing to do with the situation.
@WesCravenFan said:
Killers are not being toxic.
You just think camping and tunneling are toxic. They aren't.
Who said they aren't?
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@Edilibs said:
Artist, Dredge, Oni, Hag, Spirit, Freddy
Freddy, Pig, Ghostface, Twins, Pyramid Head and Spirit
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203977#Comment_3203977
If you have perks that are solutions to your problems and then don't use them then that's on you and you shouldn't complain. Survivors have much more flexibility in what they can bring now so it is very easy to free up a perk slot to counter tunneling or camping if they are so common.
I am stating that no side should have 'MUST RUN' perks. A playstyle that demands a perk to counter, when you won't know if you are going to deal with it or not, shouldn't be a thing, and that's for either side.
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@INoLuv said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202853#Comment_3202853
Every multiplayer game has to have a meta perk, it is natural, kindred fits perfectly as a meta perk. Why strong perks even exist if the devs just make them basekit? Some perks should be stronger and picked more, others less, is natural.
Just because something is meta, doesn't mean that someone should HAVE to bring it.
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@Jago said:
For people doing 4K or 4 streaks. They'll still do it.
If the killer can't find the survivors in the window of 45 sec, that will just be an endless trial until survivors give up or mess up. Overall increasing the average length of a trial.
Or am I missing something ?
No. We are not, it’s a prevention for killers to be greeding
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@SuzuKR said:
An infinitely usable unconditional self-pickup with no actual downsides is fundamentally a terrible idea. Know what is the counter balance for an infinitely usable pickup? Being permanently Broken all game, or the killer having a Hex and it having to stay alive which is its own barrel of risks.
It can also put the killer into a lose-lose where either they make the smart call and slug because others nearby or limited time effects and thus are punished by losing the down despite literally making the smart decision. Or they end their power early and/or lose a ton of time remaining or give the other survivors time to run away just so they can hook.
The counter to the feature is to do your job, pick up the survivor and hook them.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202852#Comment_3202852
But it's not a last resort your pretty much saying if 3 survivors are in the same spot and you have Myers at tier 3 that slugging those 3 before you hook someone is a last resort and somehow the killer failed, not that the survivors made any mistakes that allowed the Myers to do that, why should a killer be punished for outplaying the survivors or them making a mistake and be forced now to hook someone and giving 2 people a free chance to get away.
There is a lot of ways that slugging can be used as a good strategy and yes some are bad slugging everyone with 5 gens left, slugging just to get the 4k. in your own words not to be a ######### but if a survivor is in the dying state then they failed at things they were meant to do in the trial , if a killer slugs 2 people within 10-20 sec then once again the survivors failed.
This change to add UB to basekit will punish killers when they slugged at the right time of the match, if they only made it that you can use it when down to 2 people that's fair and will help survivors when a killer is slugging to get the 4k. but it also now going to punish killers that slug at the right time or to make a great amount of pressure because the survivors made a big mistake.
Being slugged is not the survivor failing. They fail when they die because their objective is to escape. Killers that tend to resort to slugging are failing because they are not getting rid of players, they are still keeping them in the game, at times, keeping them hostage.
slugging is a crutch for killers when they can’t keep up with the survivors, the same way that DH was, the same way that a 4-man hatch escape was.
the changes punish being too greedy as your main objective is hooks/kills.
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Im not sure what the numbers would be. Every day, I play at varying levels as a survivor, yesterday I had solo matches, a duo match then a few trios, and then a full squad.
I reckon it'd be very difficult for them to get an actual statistic.
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@Tobe said:
Almost all balance problems in this game arise from the gap between SWF and Solo Queue.
This mori patch will serve as a huge buff for SWF. The killer has literally no countermeasures against Sabotage, who communicates via Discord when a survivor was downed under the palette.
I think the maximum number of SWF should be reduced to two, or additional benefits or compensation should be given to Killers who deal with SWF.
Why is it the fault of the players that the devs refuse to implement the easiest methods of reducing SWFs?
You should be looking at the devs, and their incompetence to eliminate long-standing problems in the game.
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@EvieSimpsForCrowLady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3183766#Comment_3183766
in front of you is NOT well hidden
If they are directly in front of you and you can't see them that seems more of a you issue?
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@AetherBytes said:
Obviously, it probably wont appear unless something was already being done and made, but I want to say this anyway.
Killers need something out of this. I know at least 3/5ths of you all are going to go "No they dont blah blah" but plain and simple is that this is a direct nerf to the killers ability to manage survivors more than it is slugging. Sure, slugging happened, but most of the time slugs are used as management of the survivors power. If I down a survivor, and I know a gen nearby is about to pop, I am going to leave them there because I know either i can come back later and hook them, or motivate a survivor off a gen to save them (A lot more appealing than letting them get hooked then saving them). Hell, with the new system, a team with unbreakables meaning if I down 3 people in rapid succession, and actually want to hook you all and not slug you, i might only have time to hook one, maybe two before the others get away. And I know you'll say "Hur Dur they could do that before." they could, I'm not denying that, but they could only do it once, and they were often used up beforehand.
45s revive time base. AKA, the average time a chase takes. This here means that you will almost never see the "Last One Standing" phase unless you're literally versing a god, decide to give bubba a hug, or the killer has already just outright sacrificed everyone, which means the point of it is moot. And do remember, this timer is ticking the second the first survivor is downed, and may not even be that long, and if you manage to get to that point, you most likely only have seconds left of the last survivor standing before someone gets up.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O5WS62BBM1SW/image.png
Credit: Otzdarva | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP3UrGmok2c
This also shows how little control the killer even has over any of this. At most, at most we can increase it by 5 seconds. Thats... that's just abysmal. Irs worthless, theres no point, especially since the other perks effect which helped with hiding a survivor means nothing now they can self pickup. Meanwhile Survivors, with a single perk thats already run anyway can drop it by 22.5 seconds. A single survivor, 1, has 4 times the effect on this than a killer does, and all 4 survivors could, and already do, run this.
Killers are completely losing their ability to manage survivors, and with it are losing their ability to reduce gen times by enticing other survivors to leave the gen and save their friend. Since they'll pick themselves up anyway, theres no point to saving them on the ground, meaning a killer gets no pressure out of a down, loses pressure carrying, and only gets any semblance of pressure once they're already on the hook. For killers who rely on this pressure (Most of them really) this is a death sentence. Prepare to see kill rates drop so fast we could probably call it the "Great DBD Depression"
In short, Killer needs something to make up for this lost pressure, otherwise at this point survivor queues will die because no one will play killer, which is already an issue.
The only thing it literally counteracts is slugging. Slugging is an active choice that you make as a killer.
Just pick the survivor up?
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199925#Comment_3199925
Once more, in case it might sink in, this is just *your opinion* of what is necessary or not - you assume that everyone agrees with you and that's clearly not the case, judging by the responses to this thread.
So okay, you can delude yourself that you're right and everybody who disagrees with you is wrong or you can accept that you're not the sole arbitrator of what is necessary or not and therefore what is toxic or not (by your personal definition). Entirely up to you.
It is my opinion, just like you will have your opinion, and another user will have theirs. You say about agreeing but I've also had people that commented in the thread not disagree with me, or like my post because they agree with me. Maybe you should take your high ground and realise that the world is constructed of multiple opinions, that could potentially differ from yours and that it is okay for the world to be that way.
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@INoLuv said:
Nothing scummy about tunneling, esoecially after unbreakable becoming basekit and before too. Tunneling is a strat with a lot of counterplay, which is bad for the killer if the tunneled survivor is good at chases and other teammates do gens (if they dont do this is a problem with survs, not the killer). Also, survs should bring kindred. Problem solved, nothing toxic about tunneling
No player, killer or survivor, should have to bring any perk into the game. Bad take.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202792#Comment_3202792
Sometimes you need to slug be it to put pressure on survivors, type of killer your playing i.e hag, other survivors are close ready for save. Slugging at 5 gens yer that's just wrong but at times you need to slug and now having UB as basekit it will kill a lot times you need to slugh.
Not to be an #########, but slugging is a last-resort type of strategy - that most of the time, a player will resort to because every other thing that they were meant to do in trial, they failed.
Whether it be map pressure, gen pressure, or successful chases. In the same vein that Hatch was a 'last resort', that skipped out a portion of game-play for killers by prematurely finishing the game for the killer, slugging is the same. Killers don't need to be getting clean 4Ks, especially in a 2k, two more to go situation. If one person gets out, and it's via hatch, that doesn't affect you, as the killer negatively in anyway as it counts as a draw. The only loser in that situation is the survivor because they lost out on a win.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202574#Comment_3202574
Then they shouldnt bother at all. No one cares this much about moris to want them to completely revamp the game and make it worse for some killers and players. They are making a problem then solving the problem by nuking it.
This is literally only a problem if you actively choose to slug survivors.
in worst case scenario, you have 22 seconds to pick a survivor up, in best case scenario, you have 45. Both are enough to pick a survivor up.
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@FinestFantasyVI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198324#Comment_3198324
"How is killers being toxic a result of Survivors being toxic?"
Simple. Survivors go in to form a bully squad, they dont do gens and bully the killer. The killer attempts to facecamp one of the bully members. Bullies click and eventually get away. And then mock you in post game chat. Next game the killer takes out that toxic anger and frustration on innocent survivors, especially if one is playing the same character from the previous match.
From my games, survivors are more toxic. And yes I do play survivor too, I have seen killers who face camp at first hook at 5 gens and do nothing (Looking at you Huntress), only to pop off a NOED play. Honestly, I dont know if I count that as toxic... its a strategy, an unpleasant one, but it is one. In that particular game I did smell a NOED and I cleansed totems, but I stopped to pop a nearby gen. Suddenly all gens popped and I was left with 2 more totems I didnt cleanse. Before I did, it was NOED. And the Huntress got a 2k. Me and the first person she camped. It sucks, but eh. Im usually more confused by the killer if the camp and hit me. More like "What did I do to you?", because I see killers toxicity being more reactive than proactive. Unlike survivors.
Okay the same way that I can start my day, not being toxic and run into a killer from the first game, being toxic?
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@Kirahie said:
You don't close hatch when you find it because a LOT of survivors in that situation are camping exit gates.
You don't get a free escape because you are last man.
I get that and I should’ve explained a bit more, that when I entered the room, he didn’t close it, it was only when I got up to his face that he slammed it.
I hovered in the room for a bit to see what he was gonna do, but he wasn’t doing anything until I got face to face, when he slammed it
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@Katzengott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198324#Comment_3198324
You never now what caliber of survs you get at the start, most of the time. So especially tunneling 1 early out is the best strat a killer can do. It's like doing the middle gen first against most killers. If a killer starts to camp/tunnel/slugg too late, they get nothin than a 2K. The gen number ingame says nothing. Even it's says still "5", 3 gens could be almost done.
Also tunneling/camping/slugging can backfire very hard, you need to know WHEN to do it.
Finding the weak link in the team is the key. And if they don't have any, good luck!
Again, I am saying face camping when the match starts, or tunnelling to the point that you are running past body blocking survivors - or worse yet, hitting them and still continuing the tunnel.
I don’t think that’s necessary, and find it toxic.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198360#Comment_3198360
"It is toxic because it is not being done when it's necessary."
Who are you to determine what the killer does is necessary or not? Sorry, you don't get to dictate how others play the game just because you consider yourself the arbitrator of the "rules". Tunnelling out a player from the start is a very effective strategy especially if the killer finds themselves matched against more experienced survivors - if he plays by your rulebook then he's lost from the beginning.
You do you, but you have no right to tell others how to play the game. Get over yourself.
Or what? Lol
there is clearly a distinction of what is necessary and what isn’t.
face-camping someone from the minute the match starts when no gens pop, and no survivors are around the hook to justify a face-camp is unnecessary and toxic.
where did I say how others should play? I’m not forcing anyone to play in anyway, but I will certainly complain and advocate against unnecessary toxicity! x)
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If you ask me, for the last two or so years, they've been trying to balance around killers, whilst trying to bridge the gap between SWFs and Solos by buffing Solos, whether it has been working is a separate subject matter though. I
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198986#Comment_3198986
Harassment and community toxicity was a huger issue back when the game started in comparison to now. DbD's community was smaller, but as a result you could basically be kicked out of the community for not following the rules at the time, it was made even worse when DbD on PC started to develop blacklist programs and such to prevent people from finding matches with people, since dedicated servers did not exist at the time. I had friends in the early days that struggled to find lobbies because of blacklist programs combined with the matchmaking not really being that good at the time, basically making the game unplayable.
Modern DbD is just a former shell of what it was, BHVR removed those resources or found ways to make them not work, so no one could enforce the rules anymore. The community just became more verbally abusive as a result of this, which as a result made the issues within the community a lot more apparent. Another thing is because it was older DbD, you have the community traditions and ideals passed onto new players over the years, which just furthers the issues and divide within the community. While not pleasant, I would argue that it's at least playable, which is a hell of a lot better than it use to be.
Toxicity was worser? People are being doxxed, swatted and etc, and it's gone out of control. Lol
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198360#Comment_3198360
I think you missed my point.
It is not toxic at all yet you are grasping at straws for an excuse to call things toxic. There is a lot of nuance within a match of DbD, we can go on and on about "taking advantage and being excessive when not needed or necessary".
The killer only got 1 hook and first 3 generators are done, were that many generators needed to be done? It does not matter all, because it's just a game, but I'm guessing you never considered the "unnecessary" or "excessive" nature of such, because it does not come at your expense, but whenever it does come at your expense it suddenly becomes toxic. Notice how things do not line up, how they start to not make sense. Because again, there is a lot of nuance in a DbD match, where are we to judge what is necessary and what isn't.
Killer 4Ks at 5 generators remaining, well what if they had an Archive to kill survivors? Again, nuance, nuance, and more nuance. There are so many factors going on behind the scenes that occur without your knowledge, yet you never bother to even strike a thought about it. Challenges, Archives, personal goals, etc; it's almost like they don't exist to you, but they are there, and very much present at that.
Assuming the nature of someone based off of the event occurring with a match is a silly thing to do, especially when there is too much nuance, especially when there are factors beyond your knowledge and out of your control, especially when it's just a game, especially when you can just as easily get into another match and completely forget what happened in less than a minute.
But frankly at this point saying all of this is like arguing to a brick wall. You wont listen, you wont care, you made that evident from the start.
It's not a nuance, nor grasping at straws. Toxicity is defined by behaviour. If you are being excessive, with anything, for no reason - something that doesn't change the outcome, other than to worsen the experience of others, then that's toxic. Majority of these behaviours attribute to that. It's only people like yourself, that try to play with 'what could be toxic??' and make it a discussion about what ifs, or whatever.
I stated what I consider toxic, i stated that I have issue with it and I'm not planning on changing my mind.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198360#Comment_3198360
So people playing to win, even if what they are doing is unnecessary, is toxic?
I don't think you understand how silly that sounds. People can play how they want, bring anything they want, because it is literally just a game, and you are quite literally judging the contents of one's character based on their actions within a game, it's an awful things to do.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RFPF4GEFTZMX/toxicity-png.png
^ This is an old post I made, but I feel as if it still holds relevancy to something like this.
Also, if you do not like the state of the game, if you are tired of facing people that camp and tunnel, you are better playing something else. Recently, I have been playing other games (such as Warframe) to try and prevent burnout but also because cheaters have become too much of an issue atm for me to play the game, I would recommend taking a break from DbD every now and then to avoid frustration similar to I have, doing the same thing over and over knowing that it will cause frustration is not healthy to do.
Yes, being excessive and unnecessary is a player simply being toxic.
in the same vein, that I would call chain stunning a killer is toxic because it is excessive and unnecessary and doesn’t actually attribute much to the situation or it’s outcome.
Face-Camping in itself is toxic, but especially at the start of the game as it doesn’t change the fact that the survivor is hooked, nor that to rescue the survivor, another will potentially have to trade their hook or just their health-state - the same way if you had proxied in the very least would’ve done. It is just excessive and unnecessary thus toxic.
Tunnelling through other survivors, who are either trying to body block or even taking hits is also excessive and toxic, because you are going out of your way to get that one specific survivor even if you have an injured one within your reach. It’s toxic.
Toxicity isn’t about winning or losing, you can be losing and STILL be toxic to the other party. I don’t care if the killer (or survivor) is losing or at a disadvantage for what they are doing, it is STILL toxic.
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@Crowman said:
There's no ingame definition of facecamping so there's nothing here to implement
They can easily implement a system. Proximity checks already exist, they’d just have to make a system that takes proximity checks and POV/Cone checks together to determine what is going on in the match for a duration of time
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I'm sorry, but everything you just listed is not toxicity.
- "My teammates were weaker in chase than me, and unfortunately ended up all being sacrificed, at the expense of him pretty much face-camping to hook" ~ You mentioned that they were not good in chase, perhaps they were trying to build back the pressure they lost from chasing you. Camping is an annoying strategy, but it is not toxic at all.
- "The killer camped on-top of the hatch and when I ran into the room, he slammed it in my face" ~ Killers do this to guarantee the 4K, again, this is not toxic, this another strategy, albeit annoying.
- "Games after game, I am running into killers that are simply boosted. They can't chase, they can't pressure gens. They are aware of it, and resort to camping the hook of whoever the poor soul is that got caught" ~ Okay and? That is not an issue with the players, that is an issue with the game. Players should be lead down the pathway towards success, or at least what you perceive as successful, yet you fault the killers for playing this way.
Would it be toxic for me to sit here and do generators, or even complete a generator right in front of the killer's face? I mean think about it, we are doing our objective. How is it any different from the killer doing their objective? I get that camping and tunneling can be unfun to deal with, especially in SoloQ, but you cant expect killers not play efficiently when most survivors are also going to play efficiently, it would be silly to assume otherwise. We are not living in 2016-2017 when the community followed a fictional rulebook of dos and don'ts.
You missed my point.
it is toxic because it is not being done when it’s necessary, it is being done because these killers are boosted and can’t compete otherwise - with BHVR giving these killers even more crutches to execute these behaviours.
players are no longer trying to even learn the powers of the killer because they are still effective as M1 killers when they camp/tunnel from the nerfs survivors received in chase.
I shouldn’t be running into nurse or blight players that are playing them without using their powers at all because it works on their matches prior. Or when they do use it they go flying past me because they SUCK at that killer!!
taking advantage and being excessive when not needed or necessary is toxic, and you’re not going to change my mind tbh
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@[Deleted User] said:
Something dosnt add up
How long do it take to die on a hook ??
If the killer was facecamping, that means that you have 3 players free to do gens.
How long does it take to solo a gen?
Facecamping killers do the survivors a favor, use that advantage.
120 seconds it takes for a survivor to die, 90 seconds for a generator to pop.
but realistically, 3 survivors are not likely to all be sat on separate generators without a care in the world to rescue or try to attempt a rescue on the survivor.
it’s only a 30 second difference, and that’s not accounting travel time to the hook, and how long it takes to rescue the survivor.
again, most of the time that these players are camping from the beginning, they have gen reduction perks that work when they HOOK. Increasing the time that it takes to finish a gen. no games plays purely from the base.
Also, you hugely missed my point because on average, I’ve been escaping more as the killers are hugely boosted and just don’t compare. I ran a blight last game like a puppy on a singular loop.
but my experience doesn’t take away from the fact that killers ARE boosted and having to resort to being scummy and toxic to “stay” in the game.
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@Katzengott said:
Toxicity comes with toxic intenstions. Just camping, tunneling, slugging or builds alone aren't toxic. That AND hitting ppl on the hook, nodding, etc. would be toxic. But without, these are just needed strats / clusterfixes to bad game game balance in higher MMR. I see no difference in survs tunneling gens and killer tunnel survs. MMR did this, it's just both sides playing their objectives as sweaty as possible. Also it's a result of survs acting toxic when they win after killers actually played fair. I'm looking at you, tbagging survs in the exit gates.
Camping, slugging and tunnelling when not necessary is toxic.
I’ve witnessed camping and tunnelling from the beginning of the game, no attempt at pressuring or participating in proper game-play. Straight denial of game-play.
How is killers being toxic a result of Survivors being toxic? A player is toxic because THEY are CHOOSING to be toxic. Being face-camped on hook is more toxic than smacking or tbagging will ever be because it outright denies the player a chance at the game again. You are disengaging from all possible factors of the match, just to eliminate a player even at the beginning of the match.
Tunnelling or slugging/camping when it is necessary to secure in end game is a different matter to early game.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197221#Comment_3197221
Do a few kinks in a game's patch changes really amount to a betrayal of you as a gamer?
Are you sure the "genuine feeling" you are having isn't just I get grumpy over some killer tactics?
This is a real introspection moment.
I don't care if you change your view on the game or not, your fun is meaningless to me... but you have the power to change your view on the game and increase your own fun as a result.
Or stay feeling betrayed, which is completely ridiculous.
I feel the same way and have felt this way since i read the patch - putting my experience aside. I feel as if the intention or what they said the intention
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196562#Comment_3196562
Exactly this.
If you get a lot of toxic killers then you must be getting a lot of cheating, griefing, rage quits, post game abuse, threats, harassment via DM's... you know things that are actually toxic behavior.
Toxic does not = gameplay I don't like.
When there are statements like "feel lied to" and "betrayed" by BHVR in the comment, its a pretty big red flag that the point is driven by anger over rational thought.
Its only a game for crying out loud, don't take it so seriously that you feel betrayed over some mechanics changes.
Take a chill pill or you are gonna keep having a very toxic mindset about the game and be angry at your team mates and opponents thus ruining your own fun.
I do feel betrayed by BHVR, and I stand by that point. It is not a sign of anger, it is my genuine feeling.
The things we were promised in the big patch, have been opposite of what we got. They said their aim was to counter tunnelling, camping and to reward engagement. But we got the exact opposite with the buffs and nerfs that they made.
Prior to the Patch, you could camp or tunnel but it always came at an expense of something, the gens would fly (is the typical scenario). They increased gen repair time, they lowered stun duration by ANY means, reduced the BT effects to fit it as basekit, and made tunnelling easier with the Bloodlust.
I don't care what people say, being excessive with camping or tunnelling, refusing to actually participate in chase or engage in the match - is scummy and toxic. That is what I label as that, and you can honestly argue with the wall if you choose to disagree.
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@Nyxsie said:
Why should he shut it as soon as he finds it? His objective was not shutting the hatch, it was to kill you.
If he shut it immediately:
-You could have been waiting at an exit gate, maybe even with Sole Survivor.
-You could be hiding nearby with a key, waiting for him to shut it and walk away.
-You could hide the rest of the end game collapse just so he had to patrol exit gates for nothing.
Being the last person standing doesn't mean you did or should win. If you know the killer is camping hatch, do gens. If you don't want to do gens, then I guess escaping isn't that important.
"Are you trying to make the killer role braindead?"
To me it sounds like you expected an easy escape, which resulted in him effortlessly killing you.
I expect a match where the skill of all players involved is reflected and results in the way it should. I am not saying that I was entitled to the escape. I just have issue with the fact the killer refused to shut it until i was face to face to him, as he wasn't shutting it otherwise.
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@Murgleïs said:
The only toxic thing in what you described is you calling the killer bad for getting 4k or thinking you are the only good player in your team. If you are not happy with randoms, play with your friends and stop trashtalking.
Also bodyblocking (the hatch) is not toxic.
Where did I say they were bad for getting a 4K? My point is that most killers are having to resort to camping or tunnelling, early on before the game is 'over' because they CANNOT keep up. It's not trashtalk, I am just better at chase than you, simple.
I didn't say they were toxic for bodyblocking the hatch, they were toxic for waiting it out specifically until i entered the room. They didn't close it until I got up in their face, just to slam it in my face. So yes, what they did is toxic, because I was within chase distance and they refused to close until I got super close.
@Xernoton said:
You do realize that camping hatch is not scummy but rather the way a killer ensures a 4k, don't you? If the killer closes the hatch immediately when they find it there is a very real chance the survivor will escape anyway because the killer can't possibly defend both exit gates like on Mother's Dwelling. The funny part is that the survivor in this scenario would even be counted as the winner because they escaped through the gate and not the hatch.
Also sometimes it looks like the killer is tunneling or camping when they are actually not. Killing someone at 3 hooks does not mean the killer tunneled that person. It could just be that this survivor wanted the killers attention and then got downed and hooked. Maybe the killer couldn't find anyone else. I was accused of camping for coming back to the hook when the survivor was short of hitting second stage before.
Don't get me wrong tunneling and camping do exist and certainly aren't fun to go against. But a killer that camps because they can apply the most pressure this way is only acting rational. How do you pressure gens as a killer? Simple answer, you don't. Gens don't care. The only real pressure comes from hook stages and deaths. That being said I am all for adressing and fixing this problem. The killer can and should be punished for resorting to these strategies and rewarded for playing normally. Right now I don't see anything that incentivises the killer to not tunnel though. Especially with the way OTR is used it shows that Endurance is not the way to go.
Again, the killer waited for me to get in HIS FACE before he closed it, I was in the room, and he refused until I got within melee distance. He was holding me essentially hostage.
@WipeIncGamingYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196545#Comment_3196545
Here we are again. Survivor demanding free escapes.
I literally said that I am finding the game easier because I am going against killers worse than me? On average, I am escaping more than I did before this update. But that doesn't mean that other players are having the same experience, such as the teammates in my games that are getting face-camped and tunnelled. Stop being so obnoxious. I just want to go against killers that ACTUALLY CHASE, ACTUALLY PRESSURE, ACTUALLY ENGAGE.
@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196631#Comment_3196631
I would say it's not your personal fault but the fault of the whole olayerbase and online anonymity.
Back in the beginning when people learned how to play more efficient in the years 2-4, survivor were at a distinct advantage with infinites, insta heals, BNP and the whole jazz.
On the other side were nurse, insta billy and Mori. If you didn't use any of those you pretty much felt at the mercy of survivors and they made sure to make you feel it. Same with nurses, billies and Mori users.
Not all of them of course but enough to make the other side fight fire with fire.
The toxicity spiraled put of control.
And now we have killer with the advantage (however true that notion might be or not, i can't decide since i don't play anymore) and now the killer rub it in more obviously while some survivor still do it on their side.
The intensity just shifted from one side to the other over the years.
And let's not pretend that it's "every killer/survivor". That's just over exaggerating and hyperbole and doesn't help in effective discussions.
Well, obviously it's not every, but in my experience, it has significantly increased.
My biggest issue is the fact that the big patch, the devs stated they were trying to tackle the issue of tunnelling and camping with the changes they have made, but they just made it all the easier because the positive changes to counteract camping and tunnelling are directly counter-counteracted by their changes to stun durations as killers recover from any stun, whether an attack, a stun or whatever, faster than before. Meaning that they can catch up to the survivor very quickly even if the survivor plays it right in the chase.
@Grigerbest said:
I'm really sorry, but I feel like you just opened this "survivor rule-book" and just judjing the killers that you were against.=)
There is no such thing in a match as "toxic" as long as you're not braking basic rules of the game, like:
- Holding someone hostage.
- Using real exploits.
- Helping the killer to expose your teammates. (as a survivor)
- insults person in the end-game chat, in consequence of the way they played.
Any tactic or gameplay you should not consider as "toxic or scummy".
Besides, if you're saying that they can't chase, can't pressure gens, can't do that and this... Are you losing to such killers?
If yes, imo there is some skill issue.=)
Generally, no. I tend to escape.
It's not a survivor rule book. I have been witnessing face-camping from the beginning of the match, tunnelling through survivor bodyblocks and etc. It's clear toxic behaviour because it is deliberately obnoxious and I don't like it because it is boring to play against.
I hardly ever get the feeling of having to work hard, and escaping with satisfaction, or working hard but losing to a fairly equal skilled opponent. That feeling is gone.
@Grigerbest said:
"The killer camped on-top of the hatch and when I ran into the room, he slammed it in my face. Why? Just slam it when you find it?"
Just read this: Survivors "camped" the opened exit gates waiting for a killer to T-bag and flashy click the hell out. Why? Just leave and don't wait for a killer?
What is your point? I dont agree with it either.
@Nirgendwohin said:
What about the slugging Killer that let you bleedout, or the teabagging Ghostface?
Dont really run into either.
@SuzuKR said:
Not shutting hatch is the smartest possible play if generators are left and the gates are far apart or the switch is obscured (so you can’t easily see if someone is on it from a distance). If you can lure survivor towards the hatch, then you can slam it shut and start chase now knowing for sure where they are and that they are nearby. Or they do a generator and immediately give themselves away.
Camping is not toxic inherently. It’s a strategy. It can be used by toxic players to aggravate people on purpose, but that’s toxic players being toxic, not camping-specific.
I mean, the killer didn't shut it immediately upon seeing me, he waited until i was face to face with him to shut it lol
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195577#Comment_3195577
Just to clarify I’m pretty sure it’s players in Asia driving the Self Care number, for whatever reason it’s apparently really popular there.
Thats alright, just found it odd to automatically assume its ppl everywhere but US
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194280#Comment_3194280
They have already stated on other threads that regions OUTSIDE of the US use Self Care, like all the time. That is why the pick % for Self Care is so high.
It is so comedic you say US, as if everyone on the forums is from the US. I'm from Europe, I play in European regions, I hardly see self-care.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194280#Comment_3194280
I still think most challenges are self-sandbagging in general, especially the "within one trial" ones. People are more likely to throw to accomplish them and then just give up because they got it, and the ones that add requiring an escape somehow make that even worse. I like the idea of challenges, but a lot of them are hurting your teammates as much (if not more) than you personally.
Spot on! If you pay attention to the difference in challenges between killers and survivors, you will notice that most survivor challenges are self/team-sabotaging.
Fall from a great height whilst in chase, get hit whilst vaulting a window, hide in killer radius for 100+ seconds, stun the killer..
It's all self-sabotaging because most players won't play seriously
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@Audiophile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192092#Comment_3192092
The fact that self care is being run a lot seems to suggest the data is filled with inexperienced players. Yet, back in the day when we had ‘good’ data we learned red rank players were running self care more often that the average player would think. So… what does this data really mean? Who tf knows.
The fact that their data since the patch shows people are running self-care, shows that putting on a challenge that REQUIRES a single perk for you to escape with, will inflate that perk's usage lmfao
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@renciasama said:
Its been like this all the time since mmr kicked in. I bought 3 killers since then and everytime 1st 5 games are just me getting tottaly bullied by survivors that i dont even encounter aganist my main killers. I understand that giving me baby survivor as medium mmr player isnt the play but with killers like pleague or blight where u have to learn their power 1st its very unfair.
I spent my 1st game as blight in "the game" map and I spent 5 mins trying to destory one door cuz I didnt know how. Survivors came to me and started to point at me with "######### are u doing man" on their face.
In the nicest way possible, it may be that your general MMR on your mains is a bit lower than the 'average', so when you try killers where you have no MMR statistics, you're facing more difficult games because you are currently out of your comfort zone
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094953#Comment_3094953
The Thanat buff is also pretty insignificant once you work it out. The breaking speeds are probably a bigger deal than stbfl and thanat, tbh. They also nerfed all the best slowdown perks, and I don't really feel like gens are taking that much longer. It feels longer because the base speed is slower, but I also feel like I get interrupted less. CoB + Overcharge is the new flavor of the month, but the killer has to come to you to use it.
They pretty much murdered the best passive slowdown perk (Ruin), and the best slowdown combo in recent memory.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337514/this-game-is-way-too-killer-sided-by-far
I am still just flabbergasted that people are still shocked and indignant that DS, IW, SC, etc. are not that good now. BHVR wants us to run different perks, they plainly said disrupting the meta was the intent behind the patch.
So they made the perks we ran the most a lot worse. The want their use rates to go way down. That's the point.
Step one to getting past this is letting go of your old meta build, and finding new builds. Sticking with the same perks is going to be the way of pain.
Let. Your. Old. Build. Go.
I suspect at some point some of the stuff (like the DS stun duration) will be walked back, but not until a new meta takes shape.
Personally, I'm having fun trying new stuff out.
The intent was also to reduce gen rushing, camping and tunnelling, but guess what?
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@ArchAbhor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3089799#Comment_3089799
I wasnt talking about devs intentions with the kill rate.
Killer needed to be brought up to handle higher end swfs its just a fact. This patch was good.
I would agree that base survivor should be looked at next so that soloq can be elevated like killer. See how that works? balance
No it didn't.
Because high-end SWFs were facing high-end killers.
The MMR and skill rating was better prior to this patch.
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@ArchAbhor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3089744#Comment_3089744
I completely disagree with this. For the grand majority of killers with the majority of builds they would not be able to handle high level swfs. Now with all the buffs and nerfs I feel its closer to balanced.
How can you disagree with stats? LOL
This came directly from the Devs. They wanted the average kill-rate to be higher than it is, based on their statics.
It's not closer to balanced, killers are boosted. This patch pushed it over the line - after the continual indirect buffs to killers such as map reworks that turned maps favourably in their favour.
Killer has become brain-dead easy, with several crutch perks and new base game buffs, and you think that's balanced? I've been going against terrible killers that can't do chases, and only resort to camping because they are absolutely dog at the game but because killer has been so disproportionately buffed, that they get away with it.
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@LittleBigSunset said:
I personally think survivor needs some QoL basekit updates to improve the survivor experience much as killer got some much welcomed changes to improve theirs. For example, a basekit Kindred and an ability to view each other's loadouts before the match begins to improve coordination and strategy amongst survivors that cannot communicate.
I also think that the Thana change should be reverted to pre-update percentages (the increase in gen time is already a strong buff for this perk). I think the DS stun time should be reverted to five seconds (an anti-tunnel perk should adequately punish the killer for tunnelling. I think the endgame change was justified. But for a perk that only activates providing the killer decides to single you out and is otherwise a wasted perk slot it should be a little stronger. Maybe four seconds as a compromise?)
I think Pop can remain as is for now but Ruin should be reverted to at least the old percentage gen regression if it is now going to deactivate after a kill. As of the moment it is worse than all other gen regression available. I was a fan of Ruin because it encouraged killers to keep up gen pressure rather than camping/tunnelling. Now I fear it will never be seen again.
That's my thoughts. You're welcome to say that no changes are needed if that's how you feel. Please don't lynch me in the comments.
(Laurie skins are also a much needed addition to the game. I will reinstall immediately if she gets outfits :D)
The one change that I've been advocating for this entire time.
Add voice chat.
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@ArchAbhor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3089112#Comment_3089112
The tunneling and camping has been an issue since before this patch. They are outliers and are being talked about extensively already. Enough that I think the devs will address it eventually. However the amount of rage quits has skyrocketed in my experience.
The game is more balanced then where it was. Soloq is still left behind. Those 2 aren't mutually exclusive. Now killers can compete more with good teams. Bad teams or teams that arnt coordinated enough are still left behind. Where as it was killers rarely can compete with good teams, and bad teams can compete with killers. All of that obviously has many factors including who the kilers are and if either side is using busted stuff.
Killers before the patch were competing fairly with SWF.
The devs have stated that the changes were to further boost killer kill-rates not because they were below average, but because they wanted it to be higher.
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@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085504#Comment_3085504
See, and that's what I'd agree with, but not what I've meant with term proper balancement.
Some maps do still favour a lot of survivor sided tiles and vice-versa. Examples are Badham Preschool, Léry's Memorial Institute, Shelter Woods, etcetera.
Pretty sure this update has introduced new tiles tho?
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085505#Comment_3085505
BT basekit, OTR mega buff, 10sec plus on generators.
What do you want ? Invincibility ?
10s doesnt mean that gens cant be rushed, and you can also still tunnel someone w BT...
please, stop
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085180#Comment_3085180
You are wrong, genrushing and tunneling dont exist anymore.
There is just camping left.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL ok dude
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@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084932#Comment_3084932
Bloodlust removal, however, would be requiring a proper map balancement.. Something, that'd force devs to hire one of the best players or to play the game on themselves, which ain't gonna happen anytime soon. You can't balance the game around newbies, afterall..
? The maps have continuously been reworked in favour of killer, it doesn't seem like you were here for that. They were made smaller, infinites were removed, and pallet/window spawns were reduced in MOST maps.