Seraphor
Seraphor
About
- Username
- Seraphor
- Joined
- Visits
- 9,011
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226087#Comment_3226087
Eruption is not the problem, solo q is.
Eruption is a problem for solo queue. It's a non-problem for SWF. Eruption is one of the things that makes SWF more powerful than solo queue, therefore in order to balance solo queue, you need to change Eruption.
-
It should just block the gen for 20s instead of inflicting incapacitated for 25s.
-
@AJStyIez said:
I'm gonna be honest, I wasn't aware that it was listed in the bugs section. I legit thought that was intended
It is intended. Read between the lines.
As long as you grab them before they escape and directly into the exit gate, it still works as it did before.
-
P1 > P3
P0(lv50) > P2
P3 > P9
P2(lv50) > P6
That's why. For the sake of hitting one extra button, you gained an entire additional prestige level, for each you already had.
If you had enough perk tiers unlocked to gain you additional prestige levels that way, it was already known that it wouldn't be worth it to prestige. This was common knowledge.
The idea was to count your perk tiers on each character, and if they had over 170 perk tiers, it wasn't worth prestiging them because they would already go straight to P3. With 120 being a sort of 'soft cap' that would get them the equivalent of a P2 lv50.
-
I don't mind playing against Nurse.
I had a Nurse game today. It was very close, duped her several times, all gens done.
It's just tgey sweaty Nurses at max MMR you don't want to play against.
-
@Johnny_XMan said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but DCs and giving up on hook aren’t what make 6.1.0 a bad patch.
Dcing and quitting a match were ALREADY a problem before 6.1.0 so I don’t know where you are getting that it was any different before.
The incidence rate has definitely increased.
Before 6.1 I saw it in maybe 20% of games, now its around or maybe more than 50%.
-
I've actually had a really good day on DBD today, which I haven't had in a long time.
I put it all down to the event of course. Decent games as both solo survivor and killer, a lot of Ghostfaces, but not a single killer tunnelled/camped.
-
Candyman
Base on both the original and the latest movie too. Survivor is Anthony McCoy, killer is 'The Candyman' who is also Anthony McCoy, same character in both roles. Legendary skins for Tony Todd's version of Candyman and Helen Lyle. Cabrini-Green could make a good map but realistically I wouldn't expect this chapter to have a map.
The Shining
But I think it would work better being based on Doctor Sleep. Survivor is adult Danny Torrance, killer is 'The Hat', both can have powers/perks revolving around the shining and physic powers. In this case, you couldn't not have The Overlook as a new map. (I'm sorry, I just don't see Jack Torrance working as a killer)
Alien
What more needs to be said? My version would be Ellen Ripley with Amanda Ripley and Arthur Dallas as a legendary skin. 'The Xenomorph' as killer obviously.
-
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3228067#Comment_3228067
That's not what the numbers say. SWF had...what was it? 15% higher rates of escape?
BHVR wanted higher kill rates. Buff SWF again, kill rates go down and we're right back here in 6 months.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3228127#Comment_3228127
Voicecoms aren't telepathy.
I'm all for status icons, but anything beyond that is going to be a buff to SWF, particularly what seems to be the most popular request - baseline Kindred.
As for perk design, that's a sword that cuts both ways. PTS, for instance, isn't that bad when it's in a random group. With SWFs, stacking perks, items and map offerings, the gens fly.
I said not baseline Kindred. Read what I said. There's so much middle ground between "no info" and "all the info".
Killer instinct only gives you a rough direction of the survivors, forcing you to stop and move around to try and triangulate a more precise position. This given to survivors upon a hook, or other circumstances, or even on demand, wouldn't be more powerful than voice comms. And just to reveal other survivor locations, no info on the killer is needed.
I've said every time someone advocates for baseline Kindred that it would be too powerful and would still benefit SWF.
-
@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3227599#Comment_3227599
The 61% kill rate makes no sense. And before people come in denying the 61% kill rate quoted by the devs, I definitely notice it in my survivor games and killer games. Solo-queue for me is loss after loss while Killer is just easier (No I don't get 4ks over and over again, but I win way more than I lose and I do get a lot more 3ks and 4ks).
People don't play competitive games so they can curb-stomp one side, they play competitive games for a challenge.
People need to stop parroting this "61% kill rate". It's meaningless numbers, it's simply bad statistics to try and glean anything out of that number. It is an average among all killers, across all MMR brackets, it's meaningless, and everyone who tries to use that "61% kill rate" argument looks stupid.
For example, the lowest MMR bracket, the newbies and the worst players, is always going to be very killer sided. This is due to the shear immutable fact that survivors reap the benefits of experience more than killers. Newbie killers can just walk in a straight line up to a newbie survivor and down them, but a survivor has to know how to loop, know how to time pallets, etc. No amount of 'balancing' will ever make the lowest MMR bracket any less killer sided. So we accept that the 'lowest 7%' is going to be something like a 90% kill rate. Hold that thought.
Next, where do you balance the game? Do you balance around the top skill levels? or the Middle?
If you balance so the middle range is roughly 50%, then the highest levels will inevitably be around 30-40%, because the highest MMR brackets are saturated with SWF.
So let's assume that the highest 7% of players are predominantly SWFs who experience a 30% kill rate, the lowest 7% has a 90% kill rate. If you extrapolate that trend and make a straight gradient of kill rates across all skill brackets, starting at 90% and ending at 30% If you add that all together and average, you get a global kill rate of about 58%.
So let's say our magical number is "a 58% kill rate". That sounds killer sided. But the reality is that even with a 58% global kill rate, the top 35% of players are experiencing a survivor sided state of the game with a kill rate of <50%, as low as 30% at the very top.
Not least, a 61% kill rate applied to any single game, is still representative of a 2K, you can't have a 2.2k game.
Furthermore, the state of the game is just not great, and not conductive to producing a meaningful kill rate. Killers are tunnelling and camping more, inflating kill rates. Survivors are giving up on hook more, inflating kill rates. The kill rates aren't indicative of how strong or weak killers or survivors are, they're merely an indication of how often survivors are being, or allowing themselves to be, killed.
Just as survivor MMR being based purely on escapes is a poor judge of skill, so too is this 61% kill rate a poor judge of the state of the game.
-
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3227809#Comment_3227809
How do you buff solo queue in a way that:
- Won't also be a buff for SWF
- Won't require abilities and perks to work differently in solo versus SWF (which the devs have emphatically said they will never do)
?
- You provide information that is superfluous to voice comms. This could be showing each survivors perk loadouts in the loading screen or just in game info after the game has loaded. Or it could be action icons next to portraits showing what other survivors are doing at any given time. Or it could even go as far as something like basekit Kindred, maybe not exactly basekit Kindred, perhaps something more like 'Killer Instinct' but for other survivors. SWF can't be buffed by these things, because it's information a SWF will already know.
- Put thought into perk design and perk buffs/nerfs. For example, Eruption was buffed and is now a meta perk. Eruption disproportionately punishes solo survivors, because they can't get a warning 2 seconds before a survivor get's downed on the opposite side of that map. Pentimento is also more effective against solo survivors than SWF because as a solo survivor you can't keep track of which totems have been cleansed by yourself. I mentioned killer park meta on the first page, why this is an issue and how it can be fixed. Meanwhile Selfcare was nerfed, it was nerfed because it was used a lot, but it was used a lot by solo survivors as a crutch perk, which helped survivors in the lower MMR brackets (because they're solo) climb out of them. Old Selfcare wasn't meta, because a SWF can coordinate heals much more effectively without it or using other healing perks. All of this can be designed in a way that benefits solo survivors more while SWF aren't impacted.
-
As someone who plays both sides, but considered themselves a killer main (at least before 6.1), the game is just less fun now.
The 6.1 base game changes were more or less ok. Faster cooldowns to killer actions makes the game feel smoother, while offering little real advantage, gen times are a bit of a non-event given that regression perks were generally nerfed*, basekit BT and haste on unhook is fine.
DH change was brilliant, its still a strong perk in the right hands but it's no longer obnoxious. DS was probably over nerfed, it should be disabled in endgame, but the duration didn't need to change. Selfcare was nerfed unnecessarily.
But it's not as simple as whether or not killers or survivors benefitted the most, because overall the changes were quite balanced. It's what exactly those changes were and how they affected the game. The main issue is the killer perk changes:
In an effort to 'break up the meta' they nerfed the top used perks to the ground, which not only made them non-meta, but non-viable. For a little while this did the job, until the new meta was established. All we did was trade one meta for another, and that's the problem, the new meta is boring, unearned and in some cases downright toxic. It's what makes playing against killer very 'unfun' and playing as killer too, because you want to use the 'optimal' perks.
Ruin, Pop, BBQ, Pain Res, old meta perks, but they all did something that encouraged or facilitated healthy killer behaviour, mostly leaving the hook to pressure other survivors.
Instead our new established meta includes Pentimento, Eruption, Overcharge and Call of Brine. None of these perks require any specific behaviour to 'earn' their effects, and disproportionately target solo survivors as they are easily countered by a coordinated team, but incredibly oppressive against uninformed survivors. Pentimento specifically, is too strong for what it can do, when survivors lose track of totems. When a killer is running a full anti-boon/regression build based around Pentimento, solo survivors don't stand a chance. What's more is that these perks, while still being meta, also compliment a tunnelling/camping playstyle just fine. There is no urgency to leave a hook, you can ignite your totems and kick the gens at any advantageous opportunity you have, and can then defend the relevant zones with a hooked survivor nearby, all the while making survivors incapable of completing gens, as they're 30% slower or incapacitated, purely because they don't have voice comms.
In my comment linked below, I've listed the perks that should be meta, in order to facilitate a healthy gameplay loop.
If these perks were sufficiently buffed, not necessarily by a lot, but in comparison we had Pentimentio/Eruption/Overcharge/CallofBrine nerfed out of the meta. Then killers would need to earn their value by not camping and not tunnelling.
@Seraphor said:
We need to stop thinking about these things as actions that need to be 'prevented' via punishment. They're choices the killer makes, and there are reasons for those choices.
We've seen what anti tunnelling and camping mechanisms look like, Off The Record and Reassurance are the pinnacle, and even those don't 'prevent' camping and tunnelling, they simply make it harder to do. And why should a survivor be forced to run a specific perk to prevent certain toxic behaviours from the killer?
What's next? Make OTR basekit? Make OTR basekit but indefinite until the killer hooks someone else? Make an unhooked survivors invincible until another survivor is hooked? That's just removing player agency. It's a ridiculous arms race that just makes the game more restrictive, more sweaty and more toxic. It's this arms race that has led us to where we are today.
The reason killers camp and tunnel is because it's an efficient strategy. If there were other more efficient strategies, then those would be employed instead of camping and tunnelling. The reason we have so much camping and tunnelling is because power creep has eliminated all of those alternative strategies. For example, the power creep in healing perks, especially Boon: CoH, has eliminated hit and run as an effective strategy for most killers other than the two most mobile.
The only way to 'correct killer behaviour', which is what you're really talking about here, is with a carrot, not a stick.
Don't give me "they tried that with 6.1 and it failed, because it just made camping and tunnelling easier", because I'm not talking about general killer buffs. 6.1 was all the wrong decisions. They nerfed healthy anti-camping and anti-tunnelling perks in the name of 'shaking up the meta', and gave us a more toxic meta with Pentimento, Eruption and Call of Brine.
The only correct choice is buffing and creating more perks that incentivise not camping and not tunnelling:
Hex: Ruin - Required killers to leave a hook and pressure gens to get value out of it.
Pop Goes The Weasel - Forces killers to leave the hook to pressure gens to get value out of it.
Scourge: Pain Resonance - Gave killers an objective to go to after a hook.
BBQ & Chilli - Gave killers an objective to go to after a hook, and encouraged to spread hooks out between survivors.
Hex: Devour Hope - Requires killers to allow a hook rescue to take place.
Make Your Choice - Forces killers to go after the unhooker instead of the unhookee.
Scourge: Gift of Pain - Encourages killer to leave the unhooked survivor alone to get value out of it.
Grim Embrace - Encourages the killer to spread out hooks between different survivors.
This is the sort of meta we need, but 6.1 nerfed 4 of those perks and Devour is set to be nerfed next, and the rest just aren't as good as they should be.
Sometimes meta perks are meta for a reason, and trying to make them not meta just for the sake of changing statistics is not necessarily a good thing.
If they could turn all of the perks I've listed into perks worthy of being meta, then we'd have much less camping and tunnelling.
-
I think there's something inherently 'othering' about an asymmetrical PVP game.
You don't see the same sort of toxicity in 'symmetrical' PVP games, because it's overtly obvious that your opponent is in the same boat as you, and a loss is merely a misplay or due to a skill imbalance. You understand that one side has to win and one side has to lose, and so a 50% win rate is acceptable and expected.
'Unsportsmanlike' tactics in symmetrical games are obvious because they apply to you just as much as they apply to your opponent, so it's much easier to agree on things like 'spawn camping', 'sniping', etc.
With an asymmetrical game, it opens up the potential for a myriad of excuses.
"The other side didn't play fair because they can do things I can't."
"The other side has the ability to prevent me from doing things, in a way I can't do to them."
"The other side has it easier than my side because of x!"
What's more, is that 'survivor mains' don't seem to be able to accept escaping 50% of the time as fair, while 'killer mains' don't seem to be able to accept a 50% kill rate as fair.
The best thing we can all do is, when we start to feel aggravated by losing, is to play the other side for a bit, and picture yourself in your opponents shoes. And this is why everyone should endeavour to play both roles, regularly, and to not become a 'survivor/killer main'.
Once you become familiar with and understand all the gripes of each side, you learn that most of the battle is against RNG. Matchmaking and map balance are your main enemies, and some battles are going to be tougher than others.
-
@Carth said:
No way BHVR would want to be linked to straight up gore flicks. A younger audience/people who are just interested in common horror would not like art the clown and its over the top gore and concepts.
And yet we have Saw...
-
It's a good one, but not memey enough.
How about:
- You are unable to mark survivors by stalking.
- Survivors that reveal you become marked.
Should get a few uses out of it per game, you try not to be too obvious but still allow yourself to be seen while in nightshroud, bait the reveal, look at them as they're doing it, and hope they assume that you just managed to mark them a split second earlier than they revealed you. Against solo's you could pull it off on every survivor, twice if they're not too bright.
And another option:
- You gain the ability to climb into lockers.
- You are only able to stalk when inside a locker.
Well we have a killer than can climb into lockers now, let Ghostface do it too, he's good at hiding in cupboards.
-
It does work both ways, and it's much more obvious when it goes wrong than when it actually earns you a hit. So chances are you benefit from it more than you don't.
-
This is one of those perks that massively hurts solo queue, while SWF are able to mitigate it entirely.
A simple "I'm going down" gets your team mates off the gen before it triggers, and as a killer you lose all value. So whether you're a solo survivor or a killer, you should be in favour of changing this.
It's what makes this new meta far more toxic than the old one, Pop didn't affect solo's worse than SWFs and it required the killer to make and leave a hook to gain value from it.
Blocking the gen would be far more preferable to inflicting incapacitated.
-
Survivor isn't so sweaty that you need all four perks to provide value, hell you can play well enough without any perks providing you get good items. Hence I usually throw in Sole Survivor as a fourth perk as an insurance policy. Not with the intent of screwing my team mates over, but if they're potatoes, it gives me a chance to escape.
My soloq loadout tends to be something like: Kindred, Exhaustion Perk, Healing Perk, Sole Survivor
Distortion could easily be contender for the Sole Survivor slot, likewise Windows could take the Kindred slot if I'm feeling particularly confident in my team mates.
-
"and the killer doesn't let up on the people that stay in game because they have to kill everyone or they feel insecure about themselves for whatever reason."
Is this projection? Do you feel insecure about yourself if you don't pip?
Btw, did you know if the killer doesn't get enough hooks and kills they can lose a pip too? Crazy I know.
This is not a survivors vs killer topic, we're all in the same boat.
-
Your best bet here is to try and bait a pallet drop in the middle of the 'chain', break it up with a weak loop in the middle.
-
There is something you need to learn to accept if you hope to have any fun in this game at all.
You are not entitled to all of your perks all of the time. They are tools, to be utilised in specific situations and specific eventualities, in order to counter or cope with those eventualities. They are not 'powers' that you are free to use at any and every opportunity.
If you bring Unbreakable and don't get slugged, if you bring DS and don't get tunnelled, if you bring Deliverance and get hooked first. You deal with it, and accept that you didn't get the opportunity to use your tool.
Don't be the survivor who DC's when they get hooked first with Deliverance, or the survivor who harasses the killer with their DS active baiting a pick up.
-
DS being disabled at endgame is honestly all that was needed. It didn't need to be nerfed from 5s to 3s, and in fact it could stand to gain a second use, so that it can be used with each unhook, and therefore potential be a true tunnelling deterrent, as the killer could already know you have DS from the first unhook.
Ruin isn't even the start of it, 6.1 nerfed all of the healthy killer perks that incentivised not camping and tunnelling, and buffed perks that don't have that effect.
-
- Just because some people are complaining about a map, doesn't mean everyone hates it.
- There are achievements tied to escaping on RPD.
Just play the damn game. It's not that bad that it's not possible to escape from it.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222568#Comment_3222568
That's because stats are objective, not anecdotal. I can say "I like doing such and such" or "This or that happened in my game" but it doesn't mean much of anything since it's just my subjective experience. Stats are objective and come from a much wider pool of players or from the game data itself, so if the numbers are indicating something it's stronger evidence of a real effect than what I personally do in my own games. So I'm a lot more interested in analyzing the numbers than debating what "feels" better.
Care to point to the data that states how many times a survivor scrawls to a deadzone in the corner where the killer can't hook them? Or the data that shows how effective bodyblocking is at denying hooks? How about how many times a hook sabotage has actually prevented a hook, rather than being in vain because the killer wouldn't have made it to the hook anyway?
Not everything is captured by data, not everything can be captured by data, because not everything can be measured or quantified. That's why we have feedback, that's why we have anecdotes. If we only needed the data, the devs wouldn't need to know what we think, they could just look up their spreadsheet and draw their own conclusions, like you seem to like doing so much.
-
Walk up to the locker and take a look at your options. When you power is off cooldown you get a prompt to enter the locker.
-
@Eelanos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3223070#Comment_3223070
4 escapes being the "outcome of least interaction" is kind of a lie, and that has been the basis for a lot of arguments against camping. You can get 6 hook states (2 kills, not spread out) and enter a tie with very minimal interaction, yet you can lose a match where you've tried to apply pressure and managed to spread all 8 hook states.
Killers having less information than survivors isn't meant to make killers work harder, but it's actually a side effect of being the power role. It's the entire reason why survivors play on third person while killers play on first person. For the sake of fairness, you cannot ask to be the power role and expect the same treatment as the team at a disadvantage.
4Ks and 4Es should be around equally as uncommon. An average killer should be able to get around 2 kills per match, and an average survivor should have roughly a 50% escape rate. Lowest and highest ranks should never go much further than a 45%~55% kill or escape rate. They will naturally have an imbalance in the extremes, but that should be what needs to be rebalanced to be kept in line to the 50%. Every single game does this, where the balancing adresses both ends of the player skill spectrum.
This is also the reason why some people advocate for things like base kit kindred. To push up the win rate of the lower end. In theory, giving the lower end (mostly solo-q) the same tools SWFs have should close the gap and make balancing easier. If doing this decreases the kill rate, follow-up buffs for killer should come into play.
Asking, like some people in previous comments (this part is mostly for those), to not balance for the 50% because "well, but what if high level killer is like 30% kill rate??? do you want to nerf them???" is like saying Sadako doesn't need any changes because Nurse and Blight exist. If there are outliers, you rebalance them to be put back in line. Saying "No, because what about high/low rank" is the lazy way out.
This is a bit too much idealism though. The game simply can't be balanced quite so perfectly that the range between the extremes at the highest and lowest skill levels are merely 5% apart.
Newbie survivors will always be at a disadvantage against newer killers, because the strength of a good survivor team is coordination, which comes from information and experience. These are not things you can account for via mechanical game balancing, they are player factors, not game factors. The lower end of the skill spectrum will always favour the killer, quite heavily, because inexperience simply hurts survivors more.
Which poses the question, at which point do you aim for balance? A median level? If you aimed for 50% average across all skills levels, you are accepting a killer-favoured skew at the lowest end, which means there must be a survivor-favoured skew at the higher end.
Should the highest skill level be survivors sided? Should the highest level killers resign themselves to a permanent disadvantage?
Its not an inevitability that the highest skill bracket should be survivor sided, not in the same way that the lowest skill bracket must be killer-sided simply due to the basic format of the game. Surely you would want to discount the fact that newbies will have tougher survivor games, and then balance the rest of the game around that conclusion. So lets say you discount the lowest 10%, aiming to balance the 'top' 90% of players to some sort of average. If the 'top 90%' have an average kill rate of 50%, then that same balance state, when factoring in the 10% you originally discounted, will skew to 55%.
If you discount the bottom 20%, then the 'balanced state' of the 'top 80%' of players will look like a 60% kill rate when applied to the entire playerbase.
TLDR: The top skill bracket shouldn't have to be survivor sided, but the bottom skill bracket will inevitably be killer sided. This means in a balanced state, when averaging the entire playerbase into one single figure average, it will look like a killer-favoured state.
This is merely a symptom of trying to boil game balance down into one single figure. Having one single 'average kill rate' for the entire game, is simply bad statistics. But when you don't have any defined ranking system or even a decent way of measuring skill, that's all you have to go on. You need to play mathematical 'tricks' to account for all these variables that you know will skew the data, and then you eventually end up with a figure that, while it does represent a fair state for the game, doesn't look all that pretty, and that's how we get to "a 60% kill rate is balanced".
-
@WestManTooth210 said:
I used shards to buy solidarity, jane's perk, to level 2 in shrine. But when I prestige jane, it went back to level 1 being shared among all survivors.
Have you checked the other survivors to confirm that, or are you just looking at the icons above Jane's bloodweb?
Those icons will display whatever you've unlocked only via prestiging Jane.
-
How can the killer not be the power role? It's one killer versus four survivors.
Killer = power role, can dominate against multiple survivors.
Survivors = can beat the power role via teamwork due to superior numbers.
That's the fundamental basis of any asymmetrical game.
If the killer wasn't the power role, if a survivor stood as much chance against the killer in a 1v1 scenario, then the game would be wildly imbalanced in the survivors favour, and it simply wouldn't work.
-
@KayTeeBee said:
Don't give survs any basekit perks. Just take the unhooked surv out of the game by completely deactivating their hitbox for the killer so that they can't take any hits. As soon as they get fully healed by a teammate or they do a conspicious action, their hitbox is active again. In this way the survivor remains completely useless while the hitbox is not active and is thus no problem for the killer. Thereby tunneling gets useless without buffing the survivors.
Of course the unhooked surv needs to be marked, like with a white aura or something, so that the killer knows which surv is not worth to be chased.
This doesn't make the survivor completely useless, as they can still move and reposition themselves around the map, and they can still receive healing.
The only way this would work is if an unhooked survivor had no hitbox for killer or other survivors, and they became 'fair game' for either side after they moved.
This would allow the unhooked survivor to stand still, and allow the killer the opportunity to go after the rescuer instead. But if the killer decided to 'camp' the untouchable, unhooked survivor waiting for them to move so they could strike, they'd be at a stalemate, while the other three survivors hammered gens.
-
We need to stop thinking about these things as actions that need to be 'prevented' via punishment. They're choices the killer makes, and there are reasons for those choices.
We've seen what anti tunnelling and camping mechanisms look like, Off The Record and Reassurance are the pinnacle, and even those don't 'prevent' camping and tunnelling, they simply make it harder to do. And why should a survivor be forced to run a specific perk to prevent certain toxic behaviours from the killer?
What's next? Make OTR basekit? Make OTR basekit but indefinite until the killer hooks someone else? Make an unhooked survivors invincible until another survivor is hooked? That's just removing player agency. It's a ridiculous arms race that just makes the game more restrictive, more sweaty and more toxic. It's this arms race that has led us to where we are today.
The reason killers camp and tunnel is because it's an efficient strategy. If there were other more efficient strategies, then those would be employed instead of camping and tunnelling. The reason we have so much camping and tunnelling is because power creep has eliminated all of those alternative strategies. For example, the power creep in healing perks, especially Boon: CoH, has eliminated hit and run as an effective strategy for most killers other than the two most mobile.
The only way to 'correct killer behaviour', which is what you're really talking about here, is with a carrot, not a stick.
Don't give me "they tried that with 6.1 and it failed, because it just made camping and tunnelling easier", because I'm not talking about general killer buffs. 6.1 was all the wrong decisions. They nerfed healthy anti-camping and anti-tunnelling perks in the name of 'shaking up the meta', and gave us a more toxic meta with Pentimento, Eruption and Call of Brine.
The only correct choice is buffing and creating more perks that incentivise not camping and not tunnelling:
Hex: Ruin - Required killers to leave a hook and pressure gens to get value out of it.
Pop Goes The Weasel - Forces killers to leave the hook to pressure gens to get value out of it.
Scourge: Pain Resonance - Gave killers an objective to go to after a hook.
BBQ & Chilli - Gave killers an objective to go to after a hook, and encouraged to spread hooks out between survivors.
Hex: Devour Hope - Requires killers to allow a hook rescue to take place.
Make Your Choice - Forces killers to go after the unhooker instead of the unhookee.
Scourge: Gift of Pain - Encourages killer to leave the unhooked survivor alone to get value out of it.
Grim Embrace - Encourages the killer to spread out hooks between different survivors.
This is the sort of meta we need, but 6.1 nerfed 4 of those perks and Devour is set to be nerfed next, and the rest just aren't as good as they should be.
Sometimes meta perks are meta for a reason, and trying to make them not meta just for the sake of changing statistics is not necessarily a good thing.
If they could turn all of the perks I've listed into perks worthy of being meta, then we'd have much less camping and tunnelling.
-
Who cares about how many people play a given survivor? They're literally just cosmetics.
It is 100% down to visual appeal and a bit of their vocals. Back story, perks, chapter, etc. mean absolutely nothing.
There's also the positive feedback loop of new cosmetics. Popular survivors get more cosmetic options, which makes them even more popular. There's no solution to this, because cosmetics make money. Why release more Haddie cosmetics if only 2 people will buy them?
-
I don't think the game is in that bad a state, but the latest PTB certainly has me worried. I don't think I would want to play if those changes go live, but the fact that this rift has new Ghostface cosmetics is basically holding me ransom.
-
I'm sure it will. I can't think of a single patch that hasn't accidentally reverted Ghostface's music.
-
You want to launch it right on top of them, so that you spend as little time in the 'aiming' state as possible. Doing it this way not only slows you down the least, but makes it harder to dodge too. You can gain a significant lead on them this way.
-
Isn't it free on EPS? What are BHVR even getting out of the deal?
-
Oh gee, just wait until you see the new mori system, everyone will be doing it then, not just tombstone Myers.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220996#Comment_3220996
Actually making the yellow mori offering which lets you kill the last survivor in the game be base kit was a common request. This new system is just taking that further.
I'm actually looking forward to the new system, it'll speed up the cleanup portion of the game when nobody is standing, the survivors have for all practical purposes lost the match, and all that's left to do is hook the last dying survivors and maybe get a lone straggler if they stand back up. I have yet to see a game from the PTB where the killer hadn't obviously won the match when the Last Standing mori triggered.
And making yellow Mori basekit would be far, far preferable to the proposed system, and wouldn't necessitate an overhaul to the way the dying state works and all the perks associated with it.
Arguing about how effective the basekit Unbreakable is, is a moot point. I don't give a damn whether it's a net buff or nerf to survivors, the mori system is still garbage.
-
@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/349866/any-good-dredge-builds
Make Your Choice(MYC) is one of his best perks.
Devour Hope is one of his strongest perks because once you reach 3 stacks, Dredge gains massive momentum from this, but sadly it's a hex.
Dredge is mostly good with Tracking perks imo because he's one of the only killers that can "Be here and over there at the same time"
I usually run
MYC (Pig)
Scourage Floods of Rage (Sadako)
Discordance(Legion)
Surge/Jolt (Demo)
MYC and FoR is my go to combo as well.
Jolt is great too, but I tend to stack Scourge perks when I run them, to make the most out of them, so Pain Res and DMS are a great addition too.
I wish Pain Res still gave the notification of the gen it hit, would gladly take that in exchange for less regression value.
-
I don't want a Scooby Doo chapter, but I do want a Scooby Doo collection of cosmetics, just so we can dress up as Mystery Inc.
-
I guess there's degrees of acceptable 'suspension of disbelief'. Sure most people wouldn't be able to fix a broken generator, but if they're from the 20th century onwards they'd at least know what one was and what it's purpose is.
Not a hard and fast rule, a survivor from the past could absolutely work, but it may be why they haven't considered it yet.
I'd prefer a survivor from the future personally, but that's because I have Ellen Ripley in mind specifically.
-
The Hecate
Three ancient Grecian statues possessed by malevolent spirits.
Upon spawning, two other statues will spawn 12 meters either side of you.
Primary power: Liminal Gaze
Hold the power button and see phantom images from the perspectives of the other two statues, enabling you to see three different parts ofthe map at once. Press the attack button while the power button is held to switch control to another Hecate statue. Statues can be repositioned around the map to set up traps, cut off loops, lock down doorways, etc. and can be switched to with a short cooldown of 6 seconds. You do not slow down when holding the power button, but the action is telegraphed via animation.
Secondary power: Union of the Goddess
When 2 or more statues are closer than 8m, the secondary power gauge slowly fills with a minimum of 40 seconds, but 50% faster if all three statues are together. Once complete, and when all three statues are brought to the same location the secondary power can be activated. All three combine into one statue, with a movement speed of 5m/s and 50% increased lunge distance, and you see killer instinct on all survivors. This lasts for 10 seconds, at which point one statue is 'left behind', killer instinct ends, and movement speed drops to 4.8m/s with a 25% increased lunge for a further 10 seconds.
This would be a 'multi-killer' like the Twins, except any of three can function as the 'main' killer at any given time with full function and power, and the strategy of placing the statues is more similar to say Hag's traps or Demo's portals.
While the secondary power is very strong, similar to Legions Frenzy with without the limitation of deepwounds, it takes significant set up that takes away from your primary power, and which survivors can easily anticipate. But this power can itself be used to strategically place statues if you time when you 'leave them behind'.
Perks
Scourge: Key to Tartarus
When a survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, as long as you are further than 24 meters from the hook, all generators automatically regress at 200% regression speed. This effect continues for 6/8/10 seconds after the survivor is unhooked or sacrificed.
(A nice, healthy, anti-camping perk, yet could still be a contender for a meta regression perk)
Hex: Light of the Moon
When a survivor blesses a dull totem, they scream revealing their location. The survivor who cleanses or blesses this totem has their aura revealed for 16/18/20 seconds, this time increases to 32/36/40 seconds if the totem was blessed.
(A counter to Boons, and a cool combo Hex to pair up with some others)
Fortunes Crossroads
While the Obsession is injured, all other survivors within 10/12/14m of them suffer from Blindness. While the Obsession is hooked or in the dying state, all survivors within 10/12/14m of them suffer from Blindness and Oblivious. While the Obsession is healthy, their aura cannot be seen.
(Every killer has to have a duff perk or two, so no chance of this being meta, but it's a novel way of using the Obsession)
-
Do we know that these 'limited time event items' will be auric cells?
Limited time event items so far have been free.
-
Ah yeah that's definitely not possible.
-
@Bot_Salvo88 said:
All gens got done in around 6 or 7 mins, but I confirm there was a cheater in the game, I just checked. 3 of my team were downed, one of them gets up and nobody had unbreakable except me xD
And you checked for other perks like Soul Guard, Boon Exponential, etc?
-
All gens got completed at the same time or very quickly?
Or they all got completed at a reasonable pace and one of the completed gens is showing the animations for 15% progress?
If it's the latter, it could just be a visual bug. Even if it was a cheat I would guess at it also having a visual bug, because these cheats don't typically result in partial progress animations like that.
-
Honestly, it makes sense to give killers a lower penalty for DCIng than survivors, for the reason you mention. A killer DCing isn't sabotaging a game, it's ending the game, and allowing everyone to just straight back into a new one.
Alternatively, just make it so one survivor DCing ends the game as well. There's literally no good scenario where a survivor DCs.
-
I absolutely love Dredge and they would be my main.
Unfortunately I'm stuck on their bloodweb at level 1 where I'm forced to claim Tier 3 Make Your Choice if I want to progress, and Make Your Choice is an outlier perk that is better at lower tiers.
I absolutely decimate survivors with my 40s MYC build.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219439#Comment_3219439
I think killer should be around C-B tier if the killer is bad at using their power but should be A-tier if the killer is good at using their power. Dredge falls in category of being cookiecutter dbd killer where survivor skill matters more then killer gameplay. In other words, underwhelming killer. @FrostySeal post details dredge perfectly.
Since when are killers rated based on using their power badly? If a killer played well is A tier, then the killer is A tier.
Is Nurse F tier because I suck at her?
-
The killer does not have a 'correct' choice in this scenario. They can either:
- Go easy on the survivors and throw the game, losing out on kills and BP in the name of "being nice" something that survivors will never, EVER do.
- Farm. Not every survivor wants to farm, some players HATE farming and will regard this as 'holding them hostage'.
- Try to end the game as fast as possible so everyone can get to the next one sooner, by killing them as efficiently as possible. But this is 'unfun gameplay'.
(personally I think #3 is the 'fairest', but that's the one you're here complaining about so...)
The only 'fair' solution to this is if any DC results in the game instantly ending.
It does this if the killer DCs for obvious reasons, so it should do it when a survivor DCs too.
If you find that too boring, then don't complain when the killer plays the game they loaded in to.
-
Things like 'map portals' and even 'reverse bloodlust' are too extreme, plus how do you decide which killers get and and which don't when it comes to those in the middling range like Spirit, Hag, Freddy, Sadako, etc.
A much better way would be an add-on pass for the struggling killers, and give them a couple of add ons that help with movement. Such as Trapper getting an add on that increases his movement speed by 4% outside of chase while not carrying bear traps.
-
@Ayodam said:
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a survivor DC or give up on hook when the survivors are winning. It makes no sense why they would. If it happens, maybe they have to quit/leave because something is happening offline.
I have, on many many occasions, had team mates DC when the state of the game is very much salvagable.
I'd had team mates DC at 4 gens lefts, only for the three of us remaining to get to 4.5 gens completed. That fourth survivor could have easily made it all 5.
As a more extreme example, I've once had two survivors give up early on at around 2 gens done, and then the two of us remaining still managed to repair all the gens AND escape by juking the killer and tag teaming chases and gens.
Unfortunately, for many DBD players, they simply cannot handle losing. A 50% escape rate is not acceptable for survivors and a 50% kill rate is not acceptable for killers. You all need to learn how to lose.