Seanzu
Seanzu
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Lore wise the entity feeds on hope, if there is no hope (the hatch) for the last survivor it is pointless for the entity, as you are someone representing the entity (a killer) you should appreciate the hatch.
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Honestly one of the strongest survivor perks after it got buffed in Patch 2.3.0 to remove the stand still condition.
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@snozer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/986469#Comment_986469
Lol! you think ds is used to make the killer whiff, how naive of you...
DS is used to fix a looping mistake and stop the killer being able to hit you, or to get to unreachable loops from their previous spot.
It is a second chance because it literally erases mistakes that should go punished, Do i need to bring up what this perk does to nurse?
Every survivor becomes 3 hits to down, that is 3 random guesses you must make after a survivor finds cover, 3 chances for a survivor to waste a very large amount of the nurses time just because of a perk, it essentially makes her unplayable.
Don't go telling me that nurse players just need to be more precise either, cover hits are literally a game of eenie meenie miney mo did they go left, did they go right or straight? i don't know.
Not naive, just tired of all the "perfect situations" people build when looking at nerfing/buffing something.
e.g
"What if this happens, or this happens, or this happens".
There is no reason you can't bait out dead hard, there is no reason for you to not remember which survivors have used it and wait out the dead hard.
It is not an uncounterable perk by any means, I have 4300 hours in this game, I'm very well aware of what dead hard can and can't do and whether it is beatable, and it definitely is.
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*Selfish Care.
But no, I do not, biggest waste of time I think, I see why some choose to use it, and I only TRULY accept it when it's used along side a medkit.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/986469#Comment_986469
Because it generally isn't just one second chance perk, it's typically multiple. DBD breaks down into this at the lobby screen. 16 perks/4 per survivor. 25% of that will be self care typically, a second chance perk that has infinite uses and 0 counterplay other than "lol just tunnel bro". another 25% of that will be a variant of a move speed perk, in the form of dead hard (can quite easily reset an entire loop chain adding another 30-90 seconds, or another 2-3 gens). with the third 25% typically being a teamplay perk, (Borrowed Time, oh look another second chance perk with unlimited uses). with the fourth quarter typically being a fill slot for the players choice. This setup has been hailed for years as "The Holy Trinity" and has yet to be gutted on the level of any killer meta, which has a paltry 4 perks compared to 16, of which 25% can be disabled before you even get to it if you run a hex perk. Meaning that Hex perk better have a damn good payoff to make it worth the risk, which it just lost in this PTB, meaning it's effectively deleted from Killer play along with the killer characters who relied upon it to stand any semblance of a chance against survivors.
Math Breakdown:
4 survivors x 3 downs = 12
BT= +4 (total 16 downs)
Now suppose that each of that last 25% I mentioned as fill is yet another second chance perk, that number goes up to 20.
Add in flashlight saves, which aren't difficult in the slightest, and that's another 4 minimum, putting the total up to 24
Add in pallet saves, and that's potentially 14 extra saves, bumping it up to 38.
So while I miscalculated, the point remains, at absolute optimum efficiency of use, you have a minimum of 20 downs, or 3 extra gens on the survivor side.
TIme Breakdown:
Factoring in that a chase can easily last 90 seconds before your first down, that's 3 gens done, totaling 60% of their objectives completed. Throw in a dead hard in that first chase, and there's quite literally enough time there to go by for a single survivor to efficiently chain loop you for the entirety of a match while people hold M1. The reason Dead Hard get's considered a second chance, is because if both sides are playing optimally, it resets the chain loop. You can of course continue handwaving, but people with enough experience in the game on killers will attest that it's entirely possible to be looped for the entire game.
The common answer to what I just suggested is "just go find another survivor", at which point you've wasted 3 gens, and that person is free to heal up or do a gen while you go find someone else, negating any pressure you're about to apply.
Ruin's role:
Before this absolute smooth brained nerf of Ruin, it allowed you to be able to make *mistakes* in those chases without losing an extreme amount of ground. Where you AND the devs fail to understand the most critical time of the game is. The perk isn't used to get Iri gatekeeper, or to farm up more points, it's exclusively used to get more time and mitigate error, something survivors in the game get to do willy nilly.
Ruin's Role on non meta killers;
Running ruin on Clown, Hag, Trapper, Wraith, Doctor and other less seen killers was a gamble. It either gave you enough time to set up your traps or select your gens for the late game standoff, or it got busted in the first 15 seconds crippling your entire choice of killer putting an insane amount of pressure on you, the supposed power role.
Fundamentally not understanding what I've listed above is what clearly lead to this nerf, and what will ultimately result in this game following the same trend as Evolve did.
Is that simple enough for you?
I'm sorry but this entirely warped, any killer letting 14 pallet saves happen, and 4 flashlight saves happen, while tunneling borrowed time when they're at the hook when they could hit the saviour twice and save time fundamentally belongs in rank 20.
We're (from what I keep hearing from killers) supposed to be balancing around high ranked play, this story you've put together does not sound like high ranked play.
Edit: And in addition, you've set your sights on "Second Chance" perks but the majority of your "second chances" come from pallets & flashlights.
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@DonZwiebel said:
I think Ruin is fine as a Hex if the reward equals the risk of it being cleansed early.
Ruin should by any means NOT encourage survivors to get stick on gens, Its absolutely counterproductive. And as early slowdown perk maybe it should be like:
- No more great skillchecks
- Increased penalty when multiple survivors are working on a generator
- Increased Toolbox consumption when working on a gen
Just annoying enough to make them search for it, but not as stressfull for new players.
What do you think?
No more greats, totally agree
Increased penalty. agree to a certain extent, having survivors on multiple gens is often worse than having 2/3 on one because then multiple gens get half way rather than just one being done
and the increased toolbox consumption is a great idea that I've not seen! I've added it to the list.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/986492#Comment_986492
What your describing though is the effect of 2 separate perks. Im just suggesting something that wouldnt have it getting in the way of other perks like the PTB version currently does. A survivor could still come tap the gen to prevent fast regression from ruin with this idea.
As far as feeling punishing when theres only 2 survivors left... I feel like ANYTHING would feel rough when theres only 2 survivors left and still gens to do.
Unfortunately we do have to look at the way it works with every perk, I don't think it would be fair to anyone to just set the perk up, say this is good, but ignore the way it would bolster other already very strong perks.
Absolutely it does feel punishing but if there's only one gen left it's at least plausible to juggle a gen but in conjuction with other perks I feel like removing the hex does make it too strong.
a lot of people have been saying "Too strong to be a normal perk, too weak to be a hex" and I agree.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/984540#Comment_984540
What if they removed the hex part, while also removing the automatic regression part. Youd be able to have gens regressing faster, but would have to start the regression yourself. This could allow it to be used with Pop and such, whereas PTB version cannot. I feel like it would have nice synergy with Surge if done like this.
I feel like it becomes even stronger then, 25% instantly off the gen, then it's regressing at that speed, if there's only 2 people in the match I fear this makes it incredibly unwinnable even if only two are dead.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/986441#Comment_986441
Couple things here:
1) Without any second chance perks or saves, you have a minimum down count of 12 if you're playing as the devs intend you to play. If each person gets a second chance perk, that doubles to 24, if that team has 2 second chance perks, it goes to 36, and if they incorporate pallet saves and optimal flashes, it jumps at the least up to 48. While you are correct that most matches don't have that many downs, most matches are also finished within 3 minutes, with an overwhelming decisive victory by either side, usually carried by a specific set of perks, which we call a meta. The reason you balance your game around optimal play, is because as the depip squad from ages ago showed, you can walk in as a survivor without any items, communications, or perks, and still cause a killer to depip by simply knowing how to use pallet saves and time management.
2) If I wanted revenge, I'd immediately demand total gen count be increased rather than asking for a core overhaul as the design philosophy behind the title so desperately needs. If you want to be petty about it here, and I mean truly petty, absolutely zero of these "balance" patches would be pushed out by a professional team, as they lack a basic understanding of why the perk was ran so often in the first place, (it wasn't about score, but about time management as any experienced killer will explain to you).
How does one second chance perk mean everyone else in the match needs to be downed more?
If I somehow tunnel the entire team and they have DS each of them, I only have to down them all one more time, not 12 more times.
3 (Normal) + DS = (4) x 4 = 16 Your maths is very miscalculated.
Dead Hard, also seen as a "second chance" perk, you don't even down them more times than normal, you just miss a hit, which happens multiple times, so are we counting the killer missing hits as a second chance?
Deliverance, another "second chance" perk, requires you to be hooked, there is no extra downing involved.
Unbreakable, very easy to counter, you hook them, isn't always guaranteed, and if you left them on the floor there is no guarantee they wouldn't have been healed anyway and thats the killers choice to leave.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/986420#Comment_986420
That's not entirely true. When survivor perks have been reworked, they still accomplish the same major goals. DS still gives you an extra hit, especially if the killer is targeting you. Balanced Landing is still an immensely powerful chase perk. I even ran Mettle of Man for the Bodyguard achievement since its buff, and had it working most matches.
Ruin's entire point and reason people ran it was to stall the early game which it blatantly no longer does. Ruin was not reworked, it was deleted and replaced with an entirely different perk with completely different uses.
and to address this we should just entirely remove several perks from the survivor side? This sounds more like "I want revenge and en eye for an eye" rather than a "this helps things"
I've also just read @EZ5k previous post where he thinks second chance perks means you have to down survivors a "minimum" of 48 times if they run second chance perks. This is a little far fetched as I don't think any match in the history of DBD has had 48 downs.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/986392#Comment_986392
Ruin was also extremely counterable, by your logic here, it shouldn't have been touched. If you read my expanded explanation, it makes more sense as to why they need to go. Imagine if killers had a perk that required the overall gen completion to be a minimum of 20. It'd be utterly ridiculous. That's the pressure put on killers on the timeline, as now you either play 100% efficient or you quit the game, there's no inbetween.
Except you're asking for perks to be removed, ruin was reworked, not removed.
and you're asking for multiple perks to be removed which is kind of ridiculous.
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@EZ5k said:
If they aren't going to touch gen times, then they need to remove every second chance perk. Short of an extreme total overhaul of the Survivor's core objective, there's nothing they can do now to actually stop the exodus of killers. Having played since Q4 2016, I've seen plenty of generations of killers just stop playing, and it's clear they haven't learned their lesson as a dev team.
Removing perk isn't the way to go, this shouldn't be an "Eye for an eye". Second chance perks can be countered, and are countered very often, they aren't a huge reason as to why killers don't get kills.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm okay with the change, but personally think the regression speed should be increased to warrant the risk of a totem.
I'd also just like to see more early game perks for killers in general.
Agreed, I have no issue with the regression being more, but there's where I sort of draw the line, a lot of people want it a normal perk but I think it's just too strong that way, thoughts?
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@Simply_Ghostface said:
Make ruin a regular perk. That's all I ask
I honestly think permanent regression on gens that aren't being worked on is just too strong.
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@Elegant said:
The changes are fine. The only thing that needs to be done along with it in the near future is map reworks. That's the only glaring issue the game has. Sure, other perks should get looked at and nerfed, but it's nothing too insane. People are just exploding about the ruin changes because they don't understand logic.
@RaSavage42 said:
@Elegant I agree with you... and do want to say that we as a community should wait for the opportunity to play the new patch before making out minds up on "if x change is good or bad"
I do want to see maps get looked at more throughly in the future
I agree, a lot of people are saying "We need it for early game for slower killers" Smaller maps = more pressure all around and setup can be done while also pressuring near key gens & loops.
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@Mringasa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/984922#Comment_984922
This is why I suggest they all be unlit. They were supposed to be another Survivor objective, but as they stand now, it's too easy to just cleanse the one that's bothering you and call it a day. Good Survivors will cleanse them all throughout the match, just to prevent NOED, but if you don't know which one is the Hex, this slows the game down a bit without changing anything else.
I don't want to see gens take more time to complete, that gets boring AF. But giving a Killer more time in the early game, Survivors looking for totems to cleanse instead of just searching for that one that shines like a neon billboard, will make the game more balanced than any tweaking of a single Perk.
The reason so many use Ruin, at high ranks at least, is to get the little extra pressure it affords them. No great skillcheck bonuses, potential regression for failed greats, and it's also a bit of a placebo. I know I have issues if I'm tag-teaming a gen and Ruin is up, I will fail skillchecks looking to hit that great. But put me solo on a gen, and I can power through it without an issue, maybe adding 10-15 seconds or so to it from goods.
I'd even go so far as to add another 1 or 2 totems to the match itself. 5 is pretty shallow for a totem pool on some of the larger maps. Make it 6 or 7, make them unlit, and then you might have a good balance with the new Ruin.
I honestly don't think killers want to go into the route of adding more totems, it just increases the need exponentially for team play without calling it something negative.
Expecting a team of 4 people who "shouldn't" talk to each other coordinate 7-8 totems to prevent a perk that may or may not be there would be a huge feat, on top of combating gens slow down perks & killer pressure, it would have to be accompanied by a totem counter, and I can bet the last gen never gets popped if there's one still up.
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@MasterTater said:
I Feel like they should add a switch or something that is across the map that you have to interact with to be able to work on the gens. The issue is that Survivors have immediate access to there objective whereas killers have to go across the maps to get at theirs and with big maps like Mother's Dwelling and Temple of Purgation it takes like half a gen to cross the map. Things like Ruin and Corrupt achieve that but now that Ruin is gone there is only Corrupt but it should be a game mechanic.. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
You'd have to have multiple switches, because the killer could just camp, I like the out of the box idea but it would certainly need certain changs, I think.
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@Mringasa said:
Make Hex totems unlit. That solves a large part of the issue quickly. Either by forcing Survivors to cleanse every totem (it's another objective right?) or else deal with the Hex throughout the game's entirety, which would give you your endgame strength.This will also teach new players why leaving a potential NOED totem untouched is a bad thing.
That and take away the stupid handholding notifications for anything and everything in the game. Back when you had to pay attention to the statuses of your teammates, the game was a LOT more tense. You didn't know if that insta-down was DH or that you were mangled and couldn't repair gens as fast. You had to pay attention instead of running on auto-pilot. That's part of the learning experience of the game, and it's taken away a lot of the surprise factor when playing as a Survivor.
As much as I like the idea of unlit totems all-around I feel like it's a debuff, I ignore the heck out of totems depending on how close I am to a gen, I am 100% more likely to cleanse every & any totem I see if it may clear a hex.
Alternatively, I'd like totems to be made shorter, darker & less lit.
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@LustForBP said:
I’m not sure if someone has said it already (didn’t read the entire thread).
What about decreasing gen speed per gen completed?
Early Game (5-4) Current Repair Speed
Mid Game (3) -5% Gen Repair Speed
Late Game (2-1) -10% Gen Repair Speed
- % used is just an example
I feel like as a whole, this would make the game less enjoyable (I know survivor enjoyment meme etc) but this is honestly just punishing survivors for doing their objective, while giving killers more time to kill because the survivors are succeeding.
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@Esheon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/984837#Comment_984837
Pop doesnt work with Ruin anymore. You can't kick a regressing gen.
It's not 300% slowdown. A survivor who stays on the gen still finishes it in 80 seconds. If you chase them away and it's 20 seconds before someone goes back on the gen, they make up for that regression in 15 seconds.
This doesn't even fix the map problem. I had another match yesterday where a gen was finished before I even reached it. I was still a tile away when the gen popped and I saw 3 survivors scatter like cockroaches.
you're right, it doesn't, my bad. This is what I get for creating threads when I've not slept.
Still - a flat 300% progress debuff just because no one is dead is extreme. Again, I completely misunderstood, I need to sleep I thought you meant gens were just 300% slower until someone died, to 200%.
I'm going to sleep and hopefully come back to this thread, sorry for the misunderstanding.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
- Nerf toolboxes + their addons
- Balance maps (much quicker than they're currently doing, don't do the visual rework if it means each map takes half a year to do)
I'm already fine with Ruin being removed (as it currently functions), I just think these things need to happen also.
Agreed - I have no issue with gen speed and I don't use ruin, the maps are the largest issue and with smaller maps it helps a lot of the less maneuverable killers
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@Esheon said:
I posted an idea in another thread, so I'll bring it back here.
Ruin starts with three tokens. Every time a Survivor is sacrificed, remove one token. 3 tokens equals 300% regression. 2 tokens is 200% regression , 1 is 100%, and at 0 tokens the perk deactivates.
I know 300% sounds like a lot, but with 4 survivors alive at least one of is them going to stay on a generator until it's completed. If they never leave the generator, ruin doesn't affect them.
This would make using any other perk pointless, there would never be any reason not to run if because the game would never speed up until you killed someone, you could if you were a good killer, just toy with survivors, you also have to look at this with pop, 300% gen slow down, you get a hook, and get to regress a generator by 25%
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@Jesya said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/984712#Comment_984712
I never understood why the totem closest to the killer's spawn isn't designated the hex. At least it wouldn't be broken literally 20 seconds after the game starts.
Because it's very easy to determine where a killer comes from, so if you know there is a hex you know exactly where to look first.
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@Tarvesh said:
If they want it to say a Hex, it needs to ruin literally everything. it should auto regress generators, slow down healing, cleansing, sabotaging, and searching speeds. Make its strength be worthy of a Hex totem.
You could take away the Hex part and instead have it automatically regress generators at a speed based on how many totems (dull or Hex) are still up. Perhaps .5% per totem. This would increase its initial power, but still make so that cleansing totems will still effect it so that survivors can eventually be rid of it, and it can keep its traditional ability of effecting the game for a longer period of time.
I think this would still honor the perk's ability to slow down the start of the game and give more power to survivors to make it weaker over time.
I feel having all these debuffs would almost certainly make it survivors first mission to get rid of and would just make it weaker by increasing the need to remove it.
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@Aneurysm said:
Map size reduction mostly. Probably a toolbox nerf. Increased gen times is an unpopular idea bc it's not that interesting but as a temporary band-aid measure it might be the easiest route.
Agreed, I'd love a general rework of the maps (which I personally think is the biggest problem, not gen speeds) some of the maps with only basement buildings are far too empty & boring, far from enjoyable.
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@BeanieBoyBob said:
Toolboxes removed from the game, Prove Thyself hard nerf, Gen speed completion increase in time needed to complete. Fair game then.
I feel like reworking Toolboxes is the way to go instead of flat out removing them.
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@GrootDude said:
I like your toolbox idea, I’d like to keep the part of ruin that removes the great skill check bonus.
I agree with the ruin & great skill check debuff.
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@Stinde said:
Middle ground for ruin, in my opinion, would be:
-Great skill checks grants no bonus progression
-Good skill checks cause 1 % regression in all tiers
-Missing a skill check completely causes 3/4/5 % regression
-Increase the chances to get skill checks slightly/moderately/considerably
That would be a REASONABLE nerf to ruin and not as much punishing for new players than old ruin. I also like your idea for the toolboxes.
I agree that the great skill check bonus should be removed during the time Ruin is up, with the addition of making them on the whole, smaller, so you have to pay more attention.
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@chase131119 said:
Honestly, increasing skillchecks would DECREASE gen times. A survivor like me can consistantly hit great skillchecks, thus increasing gen speed. You'd be helping me out by equipping ruin if it affected how many skillchecks you got.
Making skillchecks smaller helps with great skill checks as well. I find when unnerving presence is run, it helps me instead of hurting me.
thats why i said make skill checks overall smaller, and making greats even smaller.
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and what I'm saying is with the standard thrill + 20 seconds totems it would be impossible, not buffed thrill + 20 second totems.
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@Xerge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/984546#Comment_984546
In my opinion the great skill checks are already small enough. I wouldn't be against making the good skill checks smaller tho. And maybe nerfing the amount of progression bonus you get from great skill checks would be good too.
I feel like any thing they add this late into the game is going to be "hold M1" whether you're holding M1 at a generator or holding M1 somewhere else, you're just doing a generator with extended time.
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@Dwight_Confusion said:
Its very simple. Incrrase cleansing time on hex totems.
Go from 14 seconds to 20.
Or... Buff thrill. Easy
20 seconds + Thrill would make it almost impossible for you to cleanse the totem before they got back to you.
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@Xerge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/984546#Comment_984546
In my opinion the great skill checks are already small enough. I wouldn't be against making the good skill checks smaller tho. And maybe nerfing the amount of progression bonus you get from great skill checks would be good too.
That I can agree on, but you're just doing gens and hitting mostly the same skill checks over and over, survivors are pretty well trained and even with small checks they're going to hit them even more consistently eventually, at least it would be harder.
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@Zephinism said:
Fine with the Ruin change. Add 20 seconds for gen completion.
Your toolbox change would just gut them entirely. Doesn't take very long to clean a dull totem and there's only a maximum of 5 of them anyway.
Yet people still ignore totems and get hit with noed.
and if you increase gen times you will just see an increase of toolboxes if they aren't changed.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/984540#Comment_984540
Still half of a survivor fixing it... and won't do anything if the survivor holds m1.
It's too weak to be a hex.
I don't think people look at it from every angle.
Take this, you're half way on a generator, someone is possibly going to go into struggle, you either have to come off the gen, and it regresses, which may fall even further if you stay and heal, the killer chases you etc, OR you let them go into struggle to finish the gen, removing an entire chase to kill that person as they're dead on hook.
I think if it's just permanently regresses gens all the time it becomes a nightmare for survivors trying to juggle gens against nurses/billys/spirits/huntress who can get people off gens fast and far away.
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@Xerge said:
Skillchecks are actually helpful for experienced survivors who can hit great skill checks. The good thing about ruin was that it denied the bonus progression; I would at least keep this feature of the perk, I don't think it would affect or frustrate new players because I assume the frustrating part was being punished by the regression, I can't imagine the devs telling us new players felt frustrated because they hit the hex skill checks and didn't get the bonus progression. That would be insane.
I mean, in general without ruin, even just making skill checks smaller and the greats smaller too, just an overall nerf to greats is part of the proposal, not just with ruin.
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The hex is far too powerful to just have all generators that aren't being worked on regress at 2x speed, sorry.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
I've been fine with the ruin changes since they came out all I thought was wow they had the balls to change ruin lmao
I'm the same, but I'm just trying to find a middle ground. I'd rather players didn't leave, and while ruin is something I've never used as a killer unless requested or levelling someone new, it wouldn't hurt to make ruin a tad more powerful, and gens not work so well with tool boxes.
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I suspect next years road map will have a lot more Map Reworks on it than the two we've had this year, they're liked mostly across the board by all players and it would make sense to put more time and staff into those.
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80% of players use it because they're too lazy to actually learn how to play.
Every DLC a new killer perk comes out that becomes part of their ever growing list of useable perks, the last meta perk that was added to DBD for survivors was dead hard with david.
Quinten had nothing
Tapp had nothing
Kate had nothing
Adam had nothing
Jeff had nothing
Jane had nothing
Ash had nothing because it got nerfed ( rightly so )
Nancy had nothing
Steve had nothing
Yui has MAYBE Breakout.
Killers get a new perk EVERY dlc that combines really well with their other perks to slowdown game
Bubba - BBQ
Freddy - Bloodwarden
Pig - MYC
Clown - Pop/Bamboozle
Spirit - Spirit Fury
Legion - Discordance
Plague - Corrupt Intervention/Infectious Fright
Ghostface - Nothing but more and more huntress' are running I'm All Ears
Demo - Nothing really tbh
Oni - Nemsis is being used a lot
Ruin is FAR from needed but people always fall back on it because it's effortless to use, coupled with the "Ruin is always broken within 10 seconds" I've never understood why every killer bangs on about how needed it is.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983288#Comment_983288
I never said that, and I never would say that.
Look, when Ghostface came out, I didn't run around using OoO to ruin the fun of every GF I came across. I considered that to be a dick move. You can play the game and try to win without being a dick. Knowing what killer you're going up against and specifically trying to neuter them... if the game were meant to be played that way, survivors would be able to see killers in the lobby.
It's a PTB for testing things against the Doctor, who knew people would try using things against the doctor. and anyone that is taking PTB games seriously enough to be discouraged from playing any more needs a reality check.
again, trying to prevent people that work at bhvr using what they want is ridiculous.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983275#Comment_983275
No, my friend didn't say that. He basically said, "That's not cool."
I'm not upset about this, and neither was he. It left a bad taste in my mouth, that's all. I'm not emotional about it or anything. I'm saying that from a business standpoint employees are always representatives, and they should think about the message they send with the things they do. That's all I'm saying.
Edit: Or maybe he said "That's not okay." I don't remember exactly. He's in business, he looks at everything from that point of view.
So bhvr employees should just run 0 perks, items & offerings so they don't accidentally win and make someone look bad?
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983168#Comment_983168
Eh, it's the targeted nature of the loadout. If it had just been the normal meta or meme builds or anything else, then it wouldn't have caught my eye.
Still, it's not like I can prove anything, and I'm not here calling for them to be fired or anything ridiculous like that. But appearances are everything, and my friend's first reaction when he saw the Monto video was disgust at the survivors' loadouts. He doesn't play that much, he's not on the forums, he's just a casual player who can't remember what half the perks do (so, basically, the kind of player DbD is trying to cater to).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983182#Comment_983182
I wasn't referring to one map offering or to one perk; I was referring to all of it together. It's the combination that raises an eyebrow.
Like I say in my above reply to ggallinftw, my friend who's a casual player's gut reaction to the video wasn't even about them losing, it was about the builds they ran. Appearances are everything. You have a community that's divided with many very vocally upset about a much-used perk getting nerfed, and then you see employees with toolboxes and a BNP. It appears to some like rubbing salt in the wound. Considering how the reason for nerfing Ruin is "the survivors' fun," and killers are saying it appears the devs don't care about the killer's fun, this is the exact opposite of the message you want to send. That's just how it is.
In the live game, most SWF groups aren't going to go into a match with a build targeted to neuter one specific killer. A lot of players consider it bad form to run something like that on the PTB. Yes, some still do it, but it's still widely regarded as not a cool thing to do.
This has to be some of the embarrassing conversation about DBD I've ever had.
you're essentially saying BHVR employees can't play what they want because it may "look bad"? That is actually the most ridiculous thing I've ever had to read, they want to have fun, they are RANK TWENTY why is this even a conversation I'm partaking in.
Yea I'm sure your friend went "OMG THEY RAN PERKS THAT THEY LIKED? OOOOOOH MY GOSSH AND A 25% BNP? HOW DARE THEYYYYYYY! OMG THEY PICKED A MAP TOO? REEEEEEEE THEYRE BULLIES".
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983243#Comment_983243
With how ######### and out of touch a change it is, I'd prefer it if they came out and said it was the art team that tested the ruin nerf. The mere idea that the actual developers in charge of balance did it is frightening. I'm desperately reaching for a reason to think they're not total morons.
Ruin really doesn't bother me, never used it, always been red rank on both sides, I guess it's the mentality that comes with actually being good at the game I guess.
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@bigbeefynacho said:
There was no confirmation in that particular video from Monto that the survivors he played against were actual behaviour employees. Though, if they were? YOWZER! SMH
Monto played against some of the art team, of course we should instead pretend that the art team decided to rework ruin.
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acting like your post is heresy? lmao, ok buddy.
It's not being "done dirty" if it's intentional.
and my point still stands, it doesn't work 95% of the time, so complaining about it on any level right now is ridiculous.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMmJU4IuKKg
And this video is from a survivor main, by the way.
A survivor that is running toolboxes & BNPs every game with his friends, which 95% of the rest of the people playing aren't.
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@StarMoral said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983182#Comment_983182
You would think they'd use better perks if they wanted to properly compete. I mean they JUST changed Doc and 2 of them ran Calm Spirit, 3 of them had Dead Hard, a shroud, two rotten oaks, a map offering to the largest map in the game, as well as two toolboxes (one with BNP) and two flashlights.
Not sayin they were tryin to "bully" (because if you're a rank 19 trying to bully killers, you need to get a life) but dirty tactics could be at play. It's a shame their own system did them dirty with a rank 1 killer.
They didn't get done dirty, the ranking system is ignored on PTB, like it always has, they knew exactly what was going to happen, they're a bunch of people who don't play and just stacked everything that had.
And please, don't ever come to me acting like dead hard is even remotely good, if you're a terrible killer that can't remember who has it then you deserve to have it used against you, alternatively, go watch any streamer who runs dead hard and you'll see how often it fails and ends with you exhausted on the floor without even going off.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983145#Comment_983145
They don't have to play nice, but it looks like an attempt at bullying some random player of the game that they help create. It really is different when you're employees of the company. There are different expectations. If they had bullied some rank 20 Doctor, it would've reflected badly on BHVR. Being employees means they're not normal players, no matter how skilled or unskilled they are. They are always representatives of the company.
And obviously unskilled players running a loadout like that against a killer player of unknown rank/skill proves nothing either way.
Do you REALLY think they expected to get a killer anywhere close to rank 20? lmfao
They knew exactly what would happen, they'd probably get a high ranked killer (because PTB ignores ranking) and they know new players are very unlikely to just go into ptb to try out a killer they're bad with.
The fact is, this community is soft, someone runs a map offering "BULLYING" Someone runs a counter perk "BULLYING". You guys are so incredibly soft it's insane.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983108#Comment_983108
Ragging on them just 'cause they lost is unnecessary. I don't think everyone working at BHVR should be expected to be gods at the game. However, their loadout shows intent to make some poor Doctor player testing out the rework on the PTB miserable; they just happened to get Monto.
Seeing employees eager to ruin the fun of one of their customers makes me uncomfortable and worried about the general attitude of everyone else who works on the game.
Literally everyone on the ptb is running that kind of stuff, to assume the art devs should "play nice" because someone is testing the doctor is ridiculous, if no one ran these set ups no one would know if they make him criminally underpowered or something.
Do you think killer devs should let the last survivor go because if they kill everyone it'll be a miserable game for the survivors? No, you don't because killers aren't supposed to make the survivors life bliss, and the same goes for survivors, they aren't supposed to make it easy for killers.