Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101056#Comment_3101056
Your numbers are quiete exaggerated. There are no 90% of trash nurses out there. In fact everyone can become a decent nurse if you just spend some dozens hours of playing her. But of course, if you play your first 10 matches with her you might think she is quite weak...
Balancing around top tier full team SWF on comms is nonsense if you destroy the game for 90% of other players.
@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101084#Comment_3101084
So then you are okay with that offering existing then? If so we should put in a request to the devs to get it added. Call it the "Sweet Potato" Offering. Sound good to you?
Also, my numbers are not, let me look for the kill rate data they last released (granted it's a bit old now but it still shows the point)
Here we go. this data comes from 2021-2022
If we balance around the "90% of other players" then based on this data we need to actually buff nurse and nerf pig again.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101056#Comment_3101056
Your numbers are quiete exaggerated. There are no 90% of trash nurses out there. In fact everyone can become a decent nurse if you just spend some dozens hours of playing her. But of course, if you play your first 10 matches with her you might think she is quite weak...
Balancing around top tier full team SWF on comms is nonsense if you destroy the game for 90% of other players.
So then you are okay with that offering existing then? If so we should put in a request to the devs to get it added. Call it the "Sweet Potato" Offering. Sound good to you?
Also, my numbers are not, let me look for the kill rate data they last released (granted it's a bit old now but it still shows the point)
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This argument is terrible and let me explain.
Just because something is rare, doesn't mean it is balanced or shouldn't be fixed. Look at nurse for example, in the hands of an "average 90% of killers" she is terrible, the data that BHVR shows in fact last time they released it showed her as like the lowest kill rate killer. But in the hands of someone very good, she dominates.
Is she balanced?
Let's take an exaggerated example:
Imagine for a second there was a killer offering that did the following:
- The killer moves at 300% movement speed
- The aura of all survivors is permanently revealed
- All survivors are permanently exposed
- All survivors can be immediately mori'd upon being downed.
I think we would all agree that this offering would be overpowered. Now let's say we "nerf" it by making it so it only appears in the bloodweb with a 1% chance. this means you would statistically see this offering once every 100 games. Now it's balanced. right?
Now, i agree that most matches against "normal" survivors aren't great. But that is terrible for those survivors, and therein lies the problem. Don't you think the game would be much better if a "normal" game with "normal" survivors was a little better for the survivors? Don't you think the game would be better if solo queue wasn't a giant crap shoot? We need to close the gap between SWF and solo queue, and then buff killers to compensate. This game should be fun and fair for both sides regardless of the situation.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
Many killer mains claim survivors can't play without old DH, so they just need to learn how to loop properly (especally against Nurses and half the other killers with a build-in anti looping capability).
But to be honest, if you take a look on popular and skilled dbd killer streamers, they never had a problem with achieving a 4 k (or 3k + hatch escpae) in 90% of their matches before this update.
So why is there such a huge skill issue within the killer base, that apperently many killers can't win games without 125% movement speed after 25 seconds, forever-gens-builds and buffed camping and tunneling strategies?
Because the majority of the matches they play are against what we like to call "normal" survivors. The problem is at the absolute highest level of play, this game heavily favors the survivors. Watch just about any tournament and you'll see that every killer who isn't nurse or spirit basically runs end game perks like NOED and face camps the first person they hook. There is a reason for that.
Try watching the matches that tru3ta1ent played against team oracle a while back. Even someone like true who has thousands upon thousands of hours gets completely destroyed by a good survivor team.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Holding W is not about running in a straight line, it's about chaining tiles and playing them in a safe way, aka pre-dropping if it's a loop the killer is able to mindgame. From my experience even with the nerfed speed boost + 8 stacks of STBFL survivors most of the time can still chain tiles rather well on the majority of the maps. MacMillians now are especially nasty with the new tiles, and there's still Badham, Eyrie of Crows, Garden of Joy, Cowshed...
Honestly I'd take reverting all of the killer buffs and survivor nerfs for a flat out 25% size reduction on most maps. Map design is just crazy bad in this game.
Correct. This gameplay is boring for both sides. It literally is, maximize distance by running in the opposite direction. Run to a pallet, and drop the pallet before any mindgame can even take place forcing the killer to break it in order to continue on. When survivors actually do generators, the amount of time it takes to catch up to a survivor after breaking a pallet is insane even with the buffs that you lose so much momentum. The game basically doesn't become tolerable until a survivor is on a hook, in which case now the game is (1 survivor on hook, 1 saving, 1 in chase, and 1 on gen)
This is leading to the response of the killer meta being, camping and tunneling. It is better to just camp someone out and bank on the survivors getting overly altruistic because you are playing in a scummy way and taking advantage of that. if they don't get altruistic at least you can usually secure 2 kills.
Screencap this post, the killer meta will soon be playing a killer that can injure quickly like legion or plague with thana, injure the whole team, down someone, and camp.
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@Deathstroke said:
Your math does not calculate any variables. Almost no-one start to run away from killer until they see him meaning you usually get first hit very quickly and if they run straight and don't loop you down them in 10s roughly. Some of my first chases even last under 10s if the survivor get bit stuck on object front of him.
This is an example of high level play. Watch any tournament where the killer did not play nurse or spirit and you will see that the meta is to maximize distance as soon as possible and play extremely safe and just drop pallets.
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Which leads to boring gameplay on both sides. The fun of the game is in the chase, the looping and the mindgames.
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@Akumakaji said:
I always advocated for a catch up mechanic for the losing side, ie whenever the ratio between hooks and gen done is skewered to one side, like a speed boost to the killer or a repair boost or grund reduction to the survivors, but alas I always got shot down because people apparently don't like the feeling of "getting punished for playing good". I never understood this mindset, as a lot of games of DBD are nowadays decided in the first 2-3min. If the survivors make some big blunders the killer generates so much pressure that they can't possibly finish their gens, and the other way around, if the killer choses the wrong survivor to chase and gets looped for 80s and 3 gens pop in union, then the game is pretty much over, too.
So why is there so much resistance to a mechanic that just makes this totally one sided games more interesting instead of just a stomp fest for one side? Or do people love stomping so much?
Because winning the whole game only to lose because someone used a blue shell on you is not fun.
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@Nicholas said:
I mainly see pallet wasters running it, the kind of people that drop pallets without looking behind even when The Killer isn't on them. These people also like to camp pallets. I sometimes run Any Means Necessary, and it's heartbreaking to see how inefficient some players are. 3-6 pallets gone for a 10s chase is not a good ratio at the start.
That's not even mathematically possible. Even if we assume the chase starts on opposite ends of the pallet and it is immediately dropped, it takes the killer 2.34 seconds to break it. During that time the survivor gets 9.36 meters away. Lunge distance is around 5 meters so it'll take the killer around 7 seconds to catch up to the survivor. Even if they all walked in a straight line through a bunch of pallets you couldn't possible waste more than 2 in a 10s chase.
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@dugman said:
Windows of Opportunity is a pretty solid survivor perk. Knowing exactly where you can run for safety at any given moment is very useful.
Zanshin Tactics isn’t as useful for killers though since the survivors are the ones kind of steering the chase and the killer is following them. It’s not totally useless but it’s definitely one of the weaker killer perks that I’d like to see get a buff. One idea I like for it is to allow the killer to drop or destroy one or maybe two undropped pallets per match. It would have to be limited to at most one or two or it would be overpowered, but imagine if Zanshin let you, for instance, destroy the shack pallet or other super safe pallet preemptively once per game. It would make the perk kind of useful and fun to use but still not (I think) be overpowered.
Zanshin isn't good simply because the killer already knows what pallets and walls are still up. Windows is good for solo queue because who knows what your teammates were doing.
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@SpaghettiYOLO said:
It's a 4k. I've had dead survivors message me that they won when only one survivor escaped and I'm like no, that person won. You most certainly died and lost. Working as a team is the best way to escape, but running through the exit gates or jumping in hatch is very much an individual thing no matter the situation. I count DCs as Kills as well since the same thing happens if they died on hook or were Mori'd.
I do enjoy the petty salt thrown my way most of the time though. The hoops some people jump through to justify why they did something or what they think is downright hilarious at times.
I disagree, the survivors win as a team, a 2k/2e is a draw. So if 2 survivors get out, its a draw, if 3 do, its a win. If 1 does, its a loss. Doesn't matter who gets out, i often die but get more bloodpoints than everyone else because i participate more in other activities.
Individually you "win" if you pip.
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@Ryuhi said:
fix survival category, and fix deviousness/brutality issues on killers who have to sacrifice one to get the other.both sides actually have BP issues at the moment, but on survivor side that survival one is up to 25% of point potential in a match being completely wasted and relying on a single event ti fill half of it.
This, basically they just need to:
For survivors
- Increase the amount of survival points you get or add new ways to get survival
- Get rid of the co-op bonus for a gen and just make that baseline how many points you get for doing a gen
- Increase the time required to be a "safe unhook" to disincentivizes farming, then increase the bonus points for safe unhook.
- Increase the points given for a protection hit, should be like 800-1000
- If you are being chased by the killer you should get a percentage of the objective points from gens your teammates are doing, kind of like how the emblem works, but also for bloodpoints.
- If killer DCs survivors should get maxed out objective and survival points (20k)
- If another survivor DCs all other survivors should get 2.5k bonus points in each category.
For killers:
- On killers like hillbilly/leatherface/myers/oni, make them grant double brutality on insta downs like they do for ghostface
- Same with any addons or perks that give exposed or instadown. If a survivor goes from healthy to downed in any way, the killer should get 2 hits worth of brutality.
- Same with plague, if survivors don't cleanse and she lands a hit, she should get bonus brutality and deviousness.
- If a survivor DCs you should get bonus brutality of hooks remaining * 3 hits worth, and the rest of the hooks worth of points remaining.
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@Lyonic said:
I appreciate that trapper got the ability to carry an extra trap but still feel he is very weak compared to the likes of nurse, blight etc.
How would you bring trapper up to their level?
Would you include any addons as basekit?
They can't give him all his traps because then as soon as he gets a hook he becomes the best camper in the game and that becomes the optimal way to play him.
The best thing i think they should do is:
- Normalize escaping from a trap, no more RNG, just make it take a flat number of seconds and then have it talk 25% that time if another survivor helps you. Like 12 seconds to escape on your own, and 3 seconds if another survivor helps you.
- While a survivor is trapped, trapper gets a massive speed boost. I'm talking like, 150% movement speed like a massive speed boost while running towards the trapped survivor.
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@RodDeWitt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3089851#Comment_3089851
The complaint is that in addition to the buffs to the base actions of the killers, the nerf and change of perks did not affect them at all, according to the devs the patch had to make both sides change their perks, but this change only affected to the survivors: all the killer perks are still useful or strong, and with the status of the survivors they are even worse, the only thing I appreciate is that I don't see so many "ruins" in my games anymore
I mean, i'll agree that what they did was shift the meta to just different slowdown perks, but you are gonna tell me that they didn't destroy pop and ruin?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337187/devs-dont-be-fooled
There ARE changes that need to be made. Gens SHOULD go back to 80 seconds. The chase changes were strong enough. STBFL needs adjusted. DS stun needs to go back to 5 seconds. Or stay at 3 seconds and activate both hook states.
STBFL is percentage based so it's only slightly better now, but sure you can adjust that.
And i'd take DS in it's current state working on both hook states, no problem there.
Gen speeds were never fine and everyone knew it. The big problem before was that the chase to gen speed ratio was off, the first chase would always result in 3 gens getting done before your first hook unless you took 4 slowdown perks. I haven't done the math on the current numbers with all the changes, but once i get a chance i will and see if they even fixed the problem (i don't think they did because SWF sweat squads still dominate)
The main problem now with at least solo queue is that they didn't fix the problem with slowdown perks, they just made the meta perks different now. I think what they need to do for both survivor and killer is the following:
- Increase the perk slots to 5 each, and that 5th slot can only have exhaustion perks or gen slowdown perks.
- I have every perk so i don't know if there is a baseline exhaustion perk, but if there isn't make one so every survivor has an exhaustion perk of some kind. Give killers a baseline gen regression perk that is simple, maybe make call of brine a perk that every killer has access to and give onroyo a new perk.
- Figure out all the perks that we identify as a gen slowdown perk and buff/nerf them all to have the same level of efficiency averaged out over a match:
For example, if ruin on average saves you 100 seconds of time and we decide 100 seconds is good, every gen perk should be balanced around on average saving you 100 seconds of time. Basically, we just decide on what number of gen regression is good and go with that, but now you can't stack gen regression perks because you can only have one because they only go in that 5th slot and not the others.
Alternatively, we can rework all gen regression and slowdown perks to not do that, and never have any perks that affect generators for the killers (or for the survivors, no more prove thyself, or anything) and agree on a time for generators that is good and no perk or anything can interact with them directly. That way we balance the game around not having these perks. I feel this is harder to do though and then limits the creativity we can have of perks.
Additionally, they need to give solo queue survivors more information so they can balance the game better. They need to close the gap between solo and SWF. Personally i think they should make kindred and bond base kit (and then make it so blindness doesn't affect these perks) as it would solve a lot of these problems.
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@acharliet said:
My question is why some survivors still using self-care, they even dont run botany knowledge with it. Just self care.
@AMOGUS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337386/self-care
TBH, Self-Care pre nerf wasn't actually that bad if you could hit your Greats. The healing could be drastically shortened just by hitting them.
I've heard that Self-Care was actually used at high MMR, and I've tried this for myself. The heal felt noticeably faster if I hit all of my Greats, and I don't think I spent as much time on it if I just hit good skill checks.
But back on subject, I assume they either think it's still good if they hit Greats... or they're just new.
People always ragged on self care saying it was a waste of time, and it was if used incorrectly. But if used correctly it was able to save time. It takes 16 seconds to heal a survivor and self care made it take 32 seconds to heal yourself. But this only takes 1 person, it was equally efficient. 2 survivors taking 16 seconds, is the same efficiency as 1 survivor taking 32 seconds. The problem is that it was too easy to just self care in a corner every time you got hit and waste your teams time when there was a teammate nearby that could give you a heal.
This gave you a good heal without needing to bring a medkit, so you could bring another item like a toolbox or something. Additionally medkits are limited while self-care is not.
Personally, i think they should have just left it as is, but make it so healing speed increases (and also decreases) don't affect it, so you would always heal at 32 seconds even with mangled or we'll make it. To give it some effectiveness over status effects while.
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@Bill_I_Am__Overbeck said:
I swear, more times than not I'll be typing regular ordinary (not swear words or the like) in the chat, but the censoring algorithm decides to have a go at it.
Things you can't say
- GG
- Killer
- Any characters name
- Certain perks
- Killed
- May have been
- Might have been
- Youtube
- Died
- Death
- Dying
This you can say
- Racial slurs
- Doxing someone
- Pretty much any insult
The chat filter makes no sense and doesn't work when it should and works when it shouldn't. They really should just let us turn it off and leave it on by default.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092467#Comment_3092467
Wrong. Survivors are skins; they all play the same. You don't have to play a character to level them up.
Let's just pretend the 20k node isn't there. You're getting perks on every other character you have, for free, once you Prestige someone. How is that less than what we had before?
Right, that is my point. Let's say i play a single survivor and have every perk on them. Now, a new survivor comes out.
Old way:
- level the new survivor to level 40 ~1 million bloodpoints
- Go back to my main survivor, and level up 4-5 bloodwebs ~250k bloodpoints
- This cost 1.25 million bloodpoints
New way:
- Level the new survivor to level 50 ~1.5 million bloodpoints
- Prestige the new survivor once 20k bloodpoints
- go back to my main survivor and level up 4-5 bloodwebs ~250k bloodpoints
- This cost 1.8 million bloodpoints.
This is assuming i only ever one to play a single survivor and want all the perks on them.
It makes sense for killers, which in my case when a new killer came out. i always prestiged them to 3, then unlocked all the perks on them, then went back and unlocked the new killer's perks on all the other killers. So in this case, it obviously saves me a ton, because i only need to prestige the new killer 3 times, and then all the other killers get their perks, and they already have all the other killer's perks because they are all prestige 3 as well.
But the point is, if you don't play multiple characters, the grind has actually increased.
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@danielmaster87 said:
There undoubtedly was a lot of grind reduction, but it still doesn't excuse the 20k bp nodes that you have to buy in order to Prestige. It should be free.
There was not though. The grind reduction is only there if you play multiple characters. For example, for killers it is reduced if you play all the killers (like me) but on survivor for example, i used to only have to level one to 40 to get their perks, then jump back to my main survivor and get the new perks. Now i have to at least prestige 1 the survivor, which requires them to be level 50 + 20k BPs for the prestige. So that fact alone is more.
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@VcatoV86 said:
Developers have been listening almost exclusively to killers. For years.
Don't believe me?
1.) "Maps are too dark. I can't find Blendette!" Maps were redesigned and brightened.
2.) "Loops are too hard! They are godloops!" Almost* (all?) godloops were erased. Most decent loops were taken out as well.
3.) "Gens pop too quickly! I can't do anything!" Gen time was increased.
4.) "Hooks are too far apart! Survivors are abusing this!" Hooks were brought closer together.
5.) "Deadhard is too much! They get 2 seconds extra time in a chase/miss my hit (even though they gained exhaustion)!" DH was nerfed.
6.) "Decisive strike is not fair! If they are down, I deserve to get a hook!" DS was nerfed.
7.) "Flaslights are too OP! I can't play against them!" Flashlights were adjusted/overhauled.
8.) "Keys and hatches are not fair! I deserve to kill everyone!" Keys and hatch were nerfed.
Now before you say: "Well, killers were a little underwhelming and SWF was too strong"--I agreed! But gain some perspective on just how much the devs always, for years, have catered to the killers.
Complaining about forever Legion is the least of your concerns.
1) Maps were took dark
2) There are still plenty of god loops, especially in the newer maps where there's just a hallway and a pallet that you must break.
3) Only recently, and against SWF kill squads that has always been true, the kill speed to chase ratio coupled with dead hard meant the survivor could literally hold "w" and you would lose 3 gens even if they didn't use a single loop or pallet.
4) I don't remember this ever being a thing, i think it was more the "hook distance offering" was changed to not stack, which again with SWF kill squads made it literally impossible to hook.
5) Dead hard did not give you 2 extra seconds, it was a 3rd health state when survivors used it for distance.
6) OG DS was super OP, remember when killers had to juggle? I was happy with the version we had previously where it was a 5 second stun but deactivated when doing stuff or in endgame, but to be fair it was only ever made 5 seconds back when enduring worked on it.
7) I don't think flashlights have really been reworked, unless you mean the super old ones like when mcote played as hag against that korean team years ago and they bullied him hard with flashlights. You can't tell me that was fair...
8) Hatch has always been fine, keys were the problem because survivors could basically get free escape and it would shorten the end of the game. I could say the same thing about moris, which were reworked first. But i'll tell you what, you can have keys and hatch back if we get OG moris back.
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@Marc_123 said:
Some bets when we will see them?
From the crazy people here i guess in about two to three month.
I would say it takes more time - what do you need - so 150.000.000 BP? - but again, propbably it will be sooner...
I am still shocked by the guy who had 1000 flans after three days.
I've seen a few already. They are hackers of course.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3089746#Comment_3089746
Edit them to only send the relevant parts.
e.g. Shotcut
For the one i mentioned i did, but many of these have been blatant cheaters that use literally everything, 30 second blind, 60 second head on, infinite ds, etc.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3089786#Comment_3089786
You can block the names out.
I'll have to upload a different version so the unedited one can be used for the report, maybe i'll do that later tonight. If we shed more light on the blatant cheaters maybe something will get done.
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@ArchAbhor said:
I've not seen a hacker in a long time. Last time was a killer hacker. Not that I dont believe you
I can post the videos, but they have the names in them so i think it's against forum rules.
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It's getting ridiculous. Last game i just had and luckily got video evidence of, the first gen was done in literally 10 seconds, so i started recording, the gens seemed to go much faster than they should, then endgame hit and i found the cheater who was able to outrun me, so i hooked someone else, and before i could hook they like, put themselves on the hook, then unhooked themselves as soon as i walked away so i couldn't hook the person.
Then at the end they had the audacity to say i was a "noob" for camping when i started doing it because there was an obvious cheater.
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@JakeCannon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337060/hacking-survivors-have-gone-off-the-charts
Dont know if this is cheating , but someone almost blinded me from behind if I hadn't moved my head . They could also somehow heal eachother really quickly with no med kits, botany, self care, boon, or any other type of healing mechanic .
They usually have insa-heal/global flashlight blind. I have a few videos and have already reported them, but it is getting out of hand. It takes me 40 minutes to upload a video.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084828#Comment_3084828
I'm saying that DS/OTR being disabled in end game creates unwinnable situations for survivor and grants the killer free kills in many situations.
that is on you. The point is that it shouldn't be a free escape in that situation just because you took a perk, you should have to work for it.
What if you can't work for it. what if going for the save just leads to the same end result. there is no point in the survivor attempting to save if there no-end game reward. As you said, your might get 1k and its still loss for killer, but it adds to overall kill-rate which dev use to ** balance killer powers **.
adding unwinnable situations for survivor just inflates killer kill-rates even if the matches for the killer don't feel very fun to play because you had like 3 chases in total(3 hooks) and than randomly camped in end game to get 1-2 kills. the dev will see that as good balance. nothing need changes even if the gameplay for you as killer was not fun in that particular match.
Again, that is my point though. Its a 1v4, so a DRAW is a 2 kill/2 escape. That means if it is endgame and you can't make that save, the survivor team still "won" the match because 3 of them got out.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084715#Comment_3084715
what do you think happens right now with current wraith with your current situation described?
the 3 survivor can rush the hook against wraith. If he hits anyone, his default hit recovery allows survivors to complete an unhook, than its simply a matter of walking in straight line along the exit gate with healthy survivors being in the back and injured survivors being in the front.
the 4 overpowered the 1. The one being wraith in this case. If all 4 survivors are alive, you have clearly failed to play killer successfully throughout the entire match. Your suppose to lose as killer in this situation because survivors are supposed to be in the advantage.
If the 4 survivors are not stronger than the one, i.e unable to save the survivor on hook, than the killer just get free kills and the survivor has incentive to leave their teammates behind.
Not every game is suppose to be a draw. your suppose win some games and lose some games with the average being that two people die and two people escape. for example, if you play 10 games, 5 games you win with 3-4k and 5 games you lose with 3-4 survivors escaping.
with current system, your essentially asking to never lose as killer. your asking for 5 games to be 3-4k's and every game that you would lose to be 2 kills hence you get ~70% kill-rate. with statistic like that, you will give the dev a false impression that killer is over-performing hence most killers that come out end up having lackluster powers as consequence of dev balancing through raw empirical kill-rate instead of killer game-play -i.e the killer feels good to play.
Right, that's my point, if you want, go for the hook save. But saying that DS/OTR shouldn't be disabled in endgame is stupid. The complaint i was responding to is that camping/tunneling complaint in endgame. I ask, what else should the killer do in that situation other than camp and tunnel. There is literally no other reasonable play for them to make in that situation. So complaining about it is stupid and shows your survivor bias.
I'm also not stating that every game should be a draw. What i'm saying is, in that situation, is that if the killer is camping and tunneling in that situation, and you can't get the save, or keep trading, that is on you. The point is that it shouldn't be a free escape in that situation just because you took a perk, you should have to work for it. Especially since even with that 1k, it is still a loss for the killer. That was my point brining up the 1v4.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082868#Comment_3082868
i mean staying next to a hook i.e camp is what happens in end game. Going after the same survivor i.e tunnel vision also happens in end game. I don't understand how anything changes here.
Decisive strike was not really the perk that grants free escapes in the game. DS could be countered by hooking away from exit gate and slugging. the perk that grants free escapes in the end game was borrow time. The main problem is that the killers that have access to an instant down or fast attack recovery can just keep going after the unhooker and just trade endlessly until the killer fulfills a kill from 3 hook kill condition. Vs normal m1 killers like wraith for example, you can just bodyblock wraith and unhook with borrow time to get a free escape with 4 survivors alive.
All DS change encourages is survivors to leave their teammates on the hook in the end game because there is no point in going for the hook save against killers that are overly effective at hooking camp. Pretty much just gives killer free pity kills like Sluzzy and @Aven_Fallen says.
What exactly is a killer supposed to do if 4 survivors are alive, 1 is on hook, and the gates are 99'd. are they just supposed to let all the survivors escape at that point? Its a 1v4 game, if the game is a DRAW it would be expected that 2 of the survivors die.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082873#Comment_3082873
The truth hurts.
You did it to yourself by being a troll for years.
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@Moxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082850#Comment_3082850
Yes so now its a guaranteed tunnel Kill off hook, regardless of anything. All this does is encourage more tunnelling.
As I said, OTR needed a change for end game but disabling the entire perk is lazy.
Right, but it is endgame. Endgame is a different beast. Literally nobody but baby survivor mains think "tunneling and camping" even exist at the end game. That literally is the only pressure a killer is able to exert at the end once the gates have been 99'd.
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@cacao1 said:
Hey guys! I am Killer main! I played survivor a lot cause Qtimes suck for killer. Killers started to camp and tunnel for more since this update then before.
The solution:
Team Hook Stages
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/I8EL6F1OJ39X/grafik.png
As you can see in the graphic above the survivor team has 10 hooks as a resource.
The first 6 hooks highlighted in GREEN are team hooks and are shared between all teammates. This change makes it so that a survivor is only killed after 6 hooks making any survivor untunnelbal and beeing able to sit on a camped hook for 6 hook stages if the killer wants to camp this survivor.
The RED hooks are instant kill hooks, every survivor hooked here is sacrifised instantly and it doesnt matter if this survivor was hooked 4 times before or its his first hook of the game. A survivor team has to manage its resources.
AS you can see the advantage of not losing a survivor after 3 hookstages (camping/tunneling) comes with the price that the survivor have now 2 hookstages less. Potentialy if you (the devs) want you can have 12 Hookstages but doing 6-7 gens instead, but I think everyone would rather have less hookstages then more gens to do.
NEW MECHANICs:
FAIR SLUG PROTECTION
If a person is slugged on the ground everything is normal just as now BUT if the killer downs a second person the slugged survivor gets the opportunity to fill a new recovery meter that is half the size of the original recovery meter that gives him the ability to return from the dying state. This gives the slugged person the chance to recover if the killer slugs them for real (which is why it only activates if an other survivor is slugged) but you need to fill 1,5 bars of normal recovery bar for this which is also a protection for the killer who slugs only a little
TEAM HOOK
If all survivors are hooked at the same time the oldest survivor hooked gets a free unhook and with this a chance for the comeback, BUT only aslong the hookstages are NOT exceeded.
TEAM EYE
Every 25s all survivor auras are shown to all surivors for 5sec beginning with the match start. This gives solo survivor a grip of people around them a information that SWF have in abundance. Kindred effect on every hook (of course kindred perk needs a rework after this). I imagine this effect in a corner of the screen with a visible cooldown (25s till activation and 5s of effect and always on during hooks).
TEAM INFORMATION
All survivor perks and the current STATUS are shown to all other surivors at any time. Also something all SWFs have by default. Current STATUS means what is going on at the moment and includes: gen reparing, doing totem, blessing totem, being chased by killer, healing someone/self, searching a chest, interacting with killer property... (maybe more).
Pros:
- Not losing a survivor to a tunneling killer after 3 hooks or a camping killer on first hook
- More fun chases for the killer! With the recent buff killers should love chases more.
- Less hookstages overall could make the game more spicy
- Weakminded survivors might get a hope to stay longer ingame and not DC instantly
- early DC is not a instant LOSS anymore BECAUSE the hookstages are team shared and even with 3 guys you still have 6 shared hooks (GREEN) until the killing hooks (RED).
- Slugging would be minimized to a healthy and competative amount but is still not free.
- soloQ buff without really buffing SWF by the New mechanic changes.
- Easy balancing! Because the amount of hooks could be "killswitched" to the amount needed.
- EDIT: even if you would die on your first hook at the end, its better then playing 3v1 at 4-5 gens left. just be logical!
TO-DO:
- playing the game and seeing how it goes without DOOM POSTS!
- if killers need a buff after this one could lower the team hooks by one or even two.
- If survivors need a buff one could buff hookstages by one or even two.
- Better map balance
- removing map offerings - If you are proud in every map you made every map should have the same chance to be played. If you think that there are maps that are worse then other this is even a bigger reason to remove the ability to force them on someone.
- YOUR IDEAS
DISCLAIMER: Dear BHVR. Everything said here is free to use for you, I DON'T need any kind of credit, reward or payment. please feel free to use everything you see, please forget your developer pride and accept help from people who play your game. please be better, so in return my favourite game can become better.
This topic is open for discusion.
Please post CONSTRUCTIVE ideas, before you post anything please ask yourself if you are objective in this topic and or if you are now mad because of bad expierences.
OPEN FOR DEBATE - lets make it to visible for BHVR
This only works if they remove the ability to suicide on the hook. Otherwise what is to stop a person from getting hooked and then just going through your team's whole hook states because they got mad they got caught. At least now all they can do is remove themselves.
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@FriendlyKiller said:
I don't post to the forums much, though I read and enjoy them often. I've been playing dbd since around Clowns release, killer mostly. I won't deny getting tilted on occasion and resorting to scummy tactics, especially if the survivors are toxic, but as a graduate of the HybridPanda School for Killers I generally try to play fair, not camp or tunnel(unless heh necessary) and make sure everyone has a fun game.
With that out the way.....
Ok yes dead hard is basically gone. Lots of survivors are frankly pretty bad without it well ok we all expected that. But I'm noticing in my survivor games lots of killers playing quite frankly like they're getting revenge for years of bully squads and unbalanced meta.
Guys please cool your jets a bit
Can you blame them?
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@Moxie said:
Because Killers cried survivor's "get a free escape at the end of the game".
It was literally a free escape when they were saved from the hook at endgame. The killer could do literally nothing to stop them because the speed boost lets you run pretty much to the other end of the map even if you were as far as possible from the exit gate. With the exception of maybe nurse.
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@EternalSinOfCain said:
Been seeing this a lot myself. Their DH doesn't work, they kill themselves on hook.
I was playing Nemesis and literally had a Jake and a Nancy just run up to me. So I downed the Jake, and hooked him. Nancy flashlight clicked at me and I started to chase her... Jake kills himself on hook. I down the Nancy, hook her, she does the same. After the match I asked What the hell was going on, the Jake said "Perks are worthless, can't do ######### anyway. Maybe if we make the game look bad enough, the devs will actually fix this bullshit update."
So yeah... Survivors actually are throwing just to inflate the kill rates. It's kind of pathetic to see really.
The devs can split the data out from when people intentionally throw the game like that so it's a pretty stupid way to protest.
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@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082039#Comment_3082039
Nobody said they’re game breaking. People are not having fun, simple as that.
”But killers haven’t had fun for a while!” And that’s valid. But we don’t need to drastically swing the pendulum.
Solo queue is notoriously bad as is, and it’s just gotten worse. That doesn’t make every complaint a boosted survivor throwing a tantrum.
Solo queue does need to be buffed and the gap between solo and SWF needs to be closed. But i'd still argue this game still heavily favors survivors when a good SWF group is playing together on coms, the pendulum is not drastically swinging. It's only slightly gone back in the direction of the killer.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595990#Comment_2595990
These add-on are worthless for iri. you made them as bad as Pyramid head's iri add-ons. all killers should have strong iri add-ons, they're suppose to be their best add-ons. Matchbox add-on needs a buff. it should not remove 1 blink charge. only make you 4.2.
I just do not find nurse as an interesting killer to go against, lack of counter-play on survivor end.
No, the iridescent addons should not be the "strongest ones" It is unhealthy for game balance to do so. if you make them strong enough to be the "best" then there is no reason to use any other addon. If you don't then they become useless.
In general most addons are boring and they need to move away from the "make x think 10% better" addons which are just pointless and boring. They need to make more addons that fundamentally change how a killer is played.
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@Vizikk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2593449#Comment_2593449
Unironically chasing survivors is slowly becoming a way to LOSE the game. Like I said, I can somewhat get behind Pallet Hit Validation, even though it made it easier to loop pallets safely.
Now they enabled the Healing Boon again, on top of this....I'm going to start letting people bleed out on the floor or basement camp.
I except a HUGE killer rework soon or this game will be a joke. If I'm being honest, give every killer 5% added to their movement speed. It will make the game more interesting instead of Survivors just greeding DH because of Hit Validation, and greeding Pallets because....once again, Hit Validation.
It's not slowly, it's been like that for a really long time. Just watch any tournament that doesn't make special rules/point systems to try to balance the game. You basically have to camp a hook near a 3 gen to stand any chance unless you are nurse.
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@ClumsyTrapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595990#Comment_2595990
As a guy who -insert meaningless prestige-
Nurse is fine, still a gawd killer in dbd but she's been toned down enough
If anything they should get rid of it replace her power recovery addons
She needs to be reworked TBH. But hey, let me know how that works mr. "This is a party game so it shouldn't be balanced"
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As a nurse main i can say they are right. After putting 1k+ hours into nurse you are pretty much unstoppable without perks and addons on like 99% of survivor players. the other 1% you need those perks and addons though. 3 Blinks is insane.
What they really should do is have it be a better Spasmodic where after a blink strike you get a bunch of buffs:
- 115% movement speed
- Faster vault and pallet break speed and lunge distance (think myers tier 3)
- Make it so landing a hit in this mode takes it away so you can go back to blinking.
- Extra fatigue for missing a blink strike.
Then rework spasmodic.
Matchbox should be reworked to:
- Removes 1 blink charge
- 4.2 m/s movement speed
- Increase blink lunge range to be normal lunge range.
- Decrease fatigue on successful blink strike.
So matchbox becomes more, quick, short blinks and bookmark changes her playstyle more.
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@theyenveeshay said:
Some of these responses give "I'm garbage at the game so I camp everyone to avoid learning how to actually play"
Camping is often the survivor's fault because they gave the killer the opportunity and aren't pressuring gens enough.
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@Mr_Critical said:
So Dead Hard is an insanely good perk and is used a lot, (In several games today only one game had a survivor not using it), so if its Nerfed, How would you nerf/change Dead Hard in a way that still makes it a good perk?
My idea would just be to remove one of the two factors of it, The Dash forward / The Invincibility, Though i think the dash is the stronger part so maybe just keep that.
THIS IS NOT A DEBATE ON IF IT SHOULD BE NERFED/CHANGED, JUST HOW YOU WOULD!
The problem right now is it has no downside. It's "Downside" is that you have to be injured, but that isn't really a downside since you are going to get injured in a chase most likely, and if you don't you won the chase anyway. Every exhaustion perk has some sort of downside:
- Lithe: You can't fast vault unless you want to activate it, this means you are going to loop suboptimally if you want to save it
- Sprint Burst: You can't run unless you 99 it. If you do 99 it, then you can't do ANYTHING other than run or you have to walk again. This makes you slower moving around the map.
- Head on: Requires a locker, isn't really usable in chase, often requires setups.
- Smash hit: Requires you to get a pallet stun which can be risky, or it could be a pallet that you don't want to drop like shack and the killer can play around it.
- Balanced Landing: Has very few places that you can actually use it and is highly map dependent. Some maps only get one spot you can use it (the hill)
- Adrenaline: Only works one time and happens at endgame, i also don't really count it as an exhaustion perk since it always works, more a perk that just activates exhaustion.
- Deadhard: You must be injured.
There is no real downside to dead hard when compared to the other perks.
What i would do to fix it, is to create a downside with it and rework the perk entirely. Make it so that, when you lose one health state, you gain a sprint burst. Think what happens when you happen to get hit just as you start a sprint burst, you move like double sprint burst for a few seconds. That is what dead hard should do, either a double speed boots, or maybe it doubles the length of the speed boost you get when getting hit.
This means that, when you get hit, you get a big boost to get away, but now it is out, it's over. You can't use it to unexpectedly extend a chase by "dead harding for distance" What it would do is just get you farther than normal when you get hit. This gives the killer options. If they see it activate, they can choose to chase someone else and they still landed a hit, but it could be less optimal, giving the person time to heal up so they can activate it again. Or, they can continue chasing, but it will take much longer to catch up as a reward though, now they know that there are no more exhaustion perks in play.
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@Zwergz112 said:
Everyone screaming a yelling seem to forget that this isn't live, I know people have to speak to be heard but don't forget that this goes through PTB before going live for a reason so alllllll the worries about Boon Totems will likely be seen too before release.
Calm down people.
BHVR has a history of like the last 7-8 patches of completely ignoring all feedback from PTB (and often bugs too) and just pushing it live with no changes.
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@crixus006 said:
I can't play with different killers if they can't compete in high ranks, these killers just depend on the survivor team to be bad to be able to do something if they are good in 4 minutes This ends.
I also play as a survivor and it's the same really the high must mmr things where you must work. But with buffs like that of the tramper, this is not good
2 after the next patch.
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@Kthool said:
They need to invest time into better solo player perks, be it for solo survivors or anti swf perks.
Perks like Discordance is a great example of anti swf. Maybe aim at killer perks dedicated to forcing people to stay away from one another. Perks that maybe cause Blindness when near other survivors.
No, they need to stop bandaiding things with perks and actually fix the fundamental problems with the game.
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@NardoMontalvo said:
Actually my question was more related to legion's feral frenzy
If they don't hear your terror radius it won't work. It actually states this in the oblivious status effect in the game help.
Oblivious is a negative status effect for survivors which makes whoever is afflicted with it unable to hear the killers Terror Radius and are not susceptible to the effects of Terror Radius related perks.
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@Carth said:
The problem with your argument is you can apply it to literally any game/competitive environment.
"Bro, why are people trying to be so efficient at MOBAS? Who cares if I want to play support mid"
"why even balance shooters, of course there will always be a meta gun and loadout!"
"Why do people try to devise the best strategy in chess?? who even cares, it's just a game"
"Why do teams analyze their opponents plays and strategies and try to come up with counters? It's not even a big deal, let's just play"
People generally don't play bad on purpose in most mediums/games that have any sort of competitive edge to them. Sure, they might not play on the most cutting edge/meta of things but they don't go out of their way to purposefully lose.
The difference is, in those games i have access to those same things. In this game, if i'm playing killer, i can't just start using Dead hard because it is the best perk. The asymmetrical nature of the game means that one side does not have access to things the other side does. So when the game is imbalanced it is much less fair. At least in DotA for example, if Invoker is OP, i could just play Invoker next game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510334#Comment_2510334
Yeah, when i play killer i never get gg's if i get a 4k but if it's three escapes or more they have the audacity to say "gg wp".
You mean "gg ez" seriously i don't think i have played a single game where survivors were not toxic in the end game chat when they were on PC. I seriously mean it, i can't remember the last time people were just nice.
It's always:
- gg ez
- Camper ,you suck
- Tunneling, you suck
- F you N-word
- i can't believe you are rank 1
- You are trash.
Whether i win or lose, they always say some toxic thing.
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@scorpio said:
BBQ is best used for BP, with the auras a nice bonus you get sometimes. Looking at it any other way is a mistake in my opinion because, as you said, it has many counters. The BP are great so I always run it and I usually see at least one survivor, maybe more, but if BHVR got rid of the BP bonus I would drop the perk in a heartbeat because the aura reading isn’t that strong or necessary. If you don’t need the BP you’re better off with a different tracking perk.
And I just saw this thread is old AF but I can’t delete my comment. Idk why it showed up on the main page but okay.
nice necro
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2509024#Comment_2509024
It's only balanced in favour of survivors when they're a SWF and all good. I keep getting this when I get brand new players as teammates, lol. Meanwhile I get legit sweaty SWFs to deal with when I play killer, as a result of SBMM but I'm not a piece of ######### so I don't force a disgusting way of playing on them.
I know well how comp players play, and it's awful for both sides; 9these people genuinely make any game they're in horrendous even if they're losing badly) no skill for either side is required, just instadrop pallets and rely on crutch perks for survivor and as killer abuse NoED and facecamping while being either Spirit or Nurse. Fun.
I don't disagree. But the point is that it is a multi-faceted problem. They should fix low level/low skill/solo queue survivor gameplay to make the game better for them by closing the gap between them and SWF. They also need to drastically do something to increase killer lethality against high level survivors.
Personally what i think the easiest set of changes would be:
- Make kindred base kit
- Give survivors a temporary debuff to gen repair speeds of 50% for 90 seconds after getting unhooked, this effect lessens as survivors start being killed off.
- Increase the time it takes to die on hook by 30 seconds per phase.
- Create a new status effect for survivors called "Ethereal" or whatever.
- Add to survivor basekit: When a survivor is unhooked they are granted the "Ethereal" status effect. This effect phases them to another dimension (whatever lore thing you want) that makes it so they are unable to be seen or heard by the killer. They are able to see the auras of other survivors. During this time they are unable to repair generators, this effect lasts until they start healing themselves at self-care speed, or another survivor starts healing them. The 90 second repair debuff starts when Ethereal ends. Then you would rework borrowed time to do something else.
- Fix busted loops.
- Fix busted items/addons from survivors (BNP, borrowed time in a bottle, etc.)
- Make basekit kicking a gen do a mini "Pop" for 5% of progress, and when the survivor gets on the gen, in order to start repairing it they need to do an overcharge style skill check, then rework overcharge to do something else.
- Massively buff every gen regression/slowdown perk to be roughly the same power of a ruin that lasts the entire game, but then make it so they can't stack with each other (think like the killer version of exhaustion perks).
Some of these changes seem drastic and other things could be done instead, but basically the gist is to:
- Discourage killers from camping by encouraging them to go after other survivors, by ENCOURAGING them to go after other survivors. If you knew that survivors were useless on gens for a bit, then you are encouraged to go after someone else. Having a little longer to die on hook also discourages camping. Kindred being basekit also does this.
- Killers are discouraged from tunneling. First because survivors basically become immune for a short time after being unhooked. So being recently hooked basically puts you on "time out" until you get to a safe place and heal themselves, then they are relegated to a more support role for a short time and encouraged to look for totems, open chests, or heal survivors since they will be slower on gens.
- Punish survivors who "gen-tap"
- Encourage killers to actually kick generators without needing perks to make it useful.
- Discourage stacking massive amounts of slowdown perks, while also making it so you aren't required to do so. I'd rather just have to pick 1 perk from a category of perks (like exhaustion) then be forced to run 4 slowdown perks.