Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Lemonwolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125922#Comment_3125922
So you admit that you want to use the perk for griefplay?
Nice.
No, i'm using it to prevent griefing. I personally think they should remove the hook suicide mechanic entirely and keep it perk based to prevent people like you from ragequitting.
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@DeleteSWF said:
I am the only person in solo queue who fixes generators. Stop teabagging next to me when I'm fixing because you're too stupid to use a healing perk. I have better things to do than bail out needy survivors.
Sounds good, i'll make sure to fail a skill check then go run off somewhere.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
If? This perk is a dead lock to become meta.
Probably not with SWF groups, because they already can finish gens to deal with camping. But in solo queue this will be meta. Less for the camping though, and more to prevent your teammates from suiciding on hook. I absolutely will be running it to prevent those losers from leaving the game, hiding next to them and making them wait the full 4-5 minutes to die.
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@RichardCarter said:
Since we're on the mood of Resident Evil with the new chapter, we shouldn't forget about Nemesis. Nemesis is a great killer and I personally like him, but one thing that's almost unanimously agreed on is that his add ons have a lot of really, really bad ones.
The only good add ons are ones that increase mutation rate (and those were nerfed). It's argued if making zombies move faster or have better FOV are good add ons (personally they can be if you combine them).
But the majority of them are just almost largely useless. I've been making fun of Licker's Tongue ever since I first saw it. Increases time of being Hindered after being Contaminated for an additional 0.2 seconds. ...they gain a speed boost.
I hope that BHVR, maybe during the next mid-chapter, does something to make his add ons more impactful than they are right now.
I think his main problem is that once wesker comes out, he's literally a worse wesker. His tentacle should either do damage even when not infected, or they need to make the zombies actually useful.
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@MaldingInSoCal said:
Long queus. What were once less then a minute queu times would now be 3+.
At an almost 70% win rate of 3 kills or more, killer life was easy before the path.
Now it's a joke. The games are no challenge whatsoever.
Prepatch, mercy was a common and normal thing.
HOWEVER
The devs have admitted that they use "statistical analysis, social media, and in house testing."
This is how they rationalized, justified, and concluded with the recent changes.
Variables like:
-percentage of survivors who are not killed or sacrificed. Thus, farming, giving hatch, allowing escapes, or being any type of nice actually skews the statistics. It actually hurts the game to give people a chance. Okay. Time to play for real.
-streams, and videos as the prime example of what is actually happening in the world. Because if some youtuber is posting videos of bullying the killer, then that HAS to be what happens everwhere! Screw the casuals. They don't deserve to play. We'll use unicorn squads where everyone is comms and change the game based on a worst case scenario for the killer.
-developers who play that game, and playing what is essentially a company wide killer your friends is a solid reflection of what happens when it's the internet and people are anonymous.
Thanks for changing the game to being about playing a killer and just rolling everyone. Survivor mains are playing more and more killer because survivor life is AWFUL.
And as a killer main. The guilt is real!
Pictures below are 4k games with 3 different killers. Dc's happened just before a survivor died. I.e. not early game.
Never face camped to secure the kill. Never went out of my way to tunnel a survivor. Never ran noed, or thano.
Prepatch. 7 out of 10 games, I'd get 3 or more kills.
Postpatch. It's literally a joke. 9 out of 10 games, I'd get 3 or more kills if that. The only time the game was ever any type of challenge was when I'd run into a unicorn squad of all red rank players. 1 game out of 10. ONE. It would be 2 kills or less.
I'm a killer main. Others may blame the survivor. Others may say it would be different if this, that or something. But this is real world. Not theoretical.
Thanks for longer queu times for a boring game.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XXQWM9VSW84V/8-09-2022b.png
Welcome to a world of Dbd where you HAVE to be pro to even stand a chance against a killer.
I have no less then 40 dbd twitch streamers that I follow. EVERY SINGLE ONE has played less dbd since the patch. Way to kill the game, devs.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DeliciousRepletePlumageKappaClaus-QVYTz42Hca-qcbWI
https://clips.twitch.tv/SincereHonestJuiceDogFace-sQfjl8KbNSZBUeA0
You were probably fine with just nerfing Dead Hard. You knee jerked into a killer buff while nerfing several survivor perks to the ground. Decisive strike was annoying before but part of the fun was guessing if they actually have it. Not that it mattered. 5 seconds wasn't enough to save them. You could still chase after them and finish them anyway. Now. Even if they run it. 3 seconds is basically enough to shake my head and down them anyway.
Survivors HAVE to play meta perks (because experimentation, trying things out, well, that's for people who WANT to die). They HAVE to be in comms (it doesn't even matter that much if they are. But hey, in this environment anything that improves the chances of escaping). And players need to be pro to even stand a chance (I have seen streamers, and played with, and against players with MULTIPLE thousands of hours, and.
They. ALL. Get ROLLED!
Okay. For that kind of skill level and playtime. They will have some good games. But gone are the days of a group of 4 friends stringing together a streak of 4 outs.
Thanks for nothing.
Guess you are low MMR then. Almost all of my games are crazy efficient SWF kill squads. If i don't play nurse i'm lucky to get a 2k.
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@SgtMittens said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124875#Comment_3124875
The biggest problem with DBD is SWF. Always has been and always will be. It's a problem in other games too but they have built in voice chat. DBD's entire premise was to see if 4 STRANGERS could work together with limited communication and escape. It was never intended to be anything else. I wish there was an option to play either without perks for everyone or ensure all 4 survivors aren't connected. All of these changes do help killers but none of it is helpful to solo players.
The game's just balanced around survivors doing other things. Being scared of the killer, hiding, looking in chests, doing dull totems. The problem is, once survivors don't do that, the game goes way too quick in their favor.
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@JacobiusWick said:
Sure I don't do it alot. But when I get matched with solo q mates who are self-caring, crouching in the corner, or otherwise not doing gens (especially when I've had killer in chase for at least 2-3 to pop), then yeah I'm out. Killer can have the 4k, they deserve it. 🤣😭
Because it's the same as dcing.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123407#Comment_3123407
This. The issue is Nurse. Just rework her already!
Let's nerf SWF too and survivors at high level where you lose 2-3 gens in the first chase.
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@NemmyMan3000 said:
What are some nice gen slowdown perks for Clown?
Im curious because thats what I honestly struggle with most playing Clown.
My build is STBFL, Pop, Corrupt, Brutal
Any tips would be nice from any fellow Clown mains out there
Clown has no map pressure, but pretty good chase power. You want to have slowdown perks that you don't need to do anything to activate. So things like:
- Deadlock
- Lethal Pursuer (is the best slowdown perk in the game on a good chase killer, because you can immediately start the pressure)
- Pain Resonance
- Floods of Rage (pairs nice with lethal)
- STBFL (great chase perk on clown)
- Corrupt Intervention (don't run this with lethal)
- No way out (if you want endgame)
- NOED (Pairs nicely with NWO)
- Jolt
- Sloppy Butcher (if you go for injures instead of downs/hooks)
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@RpTheHotrod said:
I keep seeing comments that using overcharge is bad for the killer if they tap the gen before 12 seconds to get to 100, but I see others say it starts at 75 on top of the standard regression rate of 100 for a starting value of 175, and somehow overcharge + call of brine = 300%
Doss overcharge actually hurt the killer if the gen is tapped before 12 seconds, or is it additive to the base regression?
@sizzlingmario4 said:
It starts at 75 normally and climbs to 200.
It starts at 175 and climbs to 300 if paired with call of brine.
It is this, generally anything in the game that stacks, stacks additively. So if you have a +20% increase in something and another +30% increase in something. You have 50% increase in that thing.
So it would be: 100 * (1.20 + 1.30) = 150
Not: 100 * 1.20 * 1.30 = 156
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121727#Comment_3121727
That bug was fixed last patch.
that's good. Didn't catch that in the notes.
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@NemmyMan3000 said:
Man it is depressing trying to use your power at loops and since Pyramid is slow winding it up its almost never connects.
Dont even get me started on the add ons, why does Obsidian Goblet exist? It honestly has no value.
Tbh his nerf was still unnecessary to this day and he needs to be tuned up to actually be useful sometimes.
He used to be decent, but people didn't like that he was anti-loop so they nerfed that. Problem is he has no map control so he has to be anti-loop.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
I keep seeing comments that using overcharge is bad for the killer if they tap the gen before 12 seconds to get to 100, but I see others say it starts at 75 on top of the standard regression rate of 100 for a starting value of 175, and somehow overcharge + call of brine = 300%
Doss overcharge actually hurt the killer if the gen is tapped before 12 seconds, or is it additive to the base regression?
It's hard to confirm for sure without direct testing. But the tooltip implies that i works at 75% regression. Regression is .25 charges per second. so 75% regression would be .1875 charges per second steadily increasing.
The thing will call of brine is that it is bugged right now, so it like stacks more, and also if you SUCCEED the skill check for overcharge, then call of brine just permanently regresses the gen (even while you are working on it)
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Can we stop with the "Can we stop with the "Can we stop with" threads" threads"?
Can we stop with the "Can we stop with the "Can we stope with the "can we stop with the" threads" threads"?
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@JaviiMii said:
FIRST OF ALL: I have pretty(?) graphs instead of a TL;DR! Just keep on scrolling😄
There are so many statements and claims floating around and subjective perception is sometimes really far from reality, so I figured: why not keep track of 100 SoloQ matches? --- In the mean time some other people have done similar things so I guess I'm a little late to the party - but hey, maybe there's something new in here.
CONTEXT (feel free to skip)
Some info on me for context may also be useful since it has quite the impact on results. Or so I've heard. So here goes: I play dbd since December 2021 and started this experiment just shy of 1k hours of which one half is survivor and one half is everything else. My, safe for BT meta-free, build pre-update was BT + Leader + Botany/We'll make it + some perk I felt like. No clue where my MMR is at but pre-Update my SoloQ escape rate was probably somewhere around 40%. SWF escape rate for me personally was somewhere between 50% and 60%. I'm not a particularly good survivor but I'm not a complete potato either. I play for fun and pretty much refuse to sweat - though I won't throw just because I don't like a killer or a map or loadout or whatever either.
The matches were between the 23rd of July and 4th of August. Most games were played between afternoon and late night (~15:00-02:00). I'm on Frankfurt servers [EU servers]. My build wasn't the same throughout the whole thing but always a combination of the following (number of matches played with the perk in brackets): Sprint Burst (91), Lithe (9), Botany Knowledge (26), Leader (41), Tenacity (9), Wake Up! (51), Vigil (23), Windows of Opportunity (39), Borrowed Time (3), Self-Aware/Fixated (20), Kindred (40), Distortion (40) and Alert (8). I brought neither items nor offerings.
MATCHES AND OUTCOMES
My Escapes / Deaths and Overall Escapes
I escaped 37 matches which translates to a 37% escape rate. It certainly didn't feel that way. 5 times I escaped through the hatch, on three of those occasions the killer gave hatch on purpose. One time the killer DCd. Out of my 31 escapes through the gates it was 7x1E (four times the killer wanted me to open the exit gates and escape), 3x2E, 10x3E and 12x4E. The longest escape streak was four (this happened two times. I also escaped three times in a row two times).
I died 63 times which translates to a 63% death rate. Two times I was the only one who died. The longest "death streak" was eight deaths in a row. Except for one given hatch and one match with multiple DCs they were all 4K with two or more gens left. Definitely one of the more frustrating and discouraging experiences.
In total 12 matches were a 4E (one 3E+H included). 13 matches were a 3E (one 2E+H included). 5 matches were 2E. In total 16 survivors escaped through the hatch, in 14 matches they were the only survivor to escape. 12 matches were 1E through gates. In 42 matches no one escaped (=4K). There was also one match where three survivors DCd and one killer DCd, I count those matches as null.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9CULF4YQH9XN/keh.png
DCs/Suicides
There were 2 suicides on hook (though a number of players tried but got taken off the hook before they could actually kill themselves but since it's hard to tell if it's a genuine kobe attempt or someone actually trying to kill themselves I didn't count any of that). There were a total of 12 DCs in a total of ten matches. One DC was a killer, one match had three survivors DC. Looking at complaints of all kinds of people that was fewer DCs than expected.
Generators
A total of 364 gens got completed which means 3.64 gens got completed on average. To my surprise there were only five matches that ended with zero gens completed. Even more surprising was that in 41 matches all gens got somehow completed. It certainly didn't feel that way. That being said, there were a number of occasions where completing the last gen was the last thing the (next to) last survivor did before dying moments later. It may be an act of defiance at this point 😂
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VO92434SAL30/grafik.png
I was also curious what the final match results were when all five gens got done - since they they did all get done quite often.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PUPRXEHGGAKA/grafik.png
And while I was at it I also looked at how many gens got done when the final result was a 4K. In total 127 gens got done in matches that turned out to be a 4K, which means on average 3.02 gens got done in these matches. Some may go "hold on a sec, there were five matches that had zero gen progress!" - which is true. One is the triple DC which was not counted as a 4K but null. And on the other occasion someone actually managed to open the gate and escape after the killer had closed hatch.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8B95YCPVHBZN/grafik.png
Match Duration
Playing those 100 SoloQ matches took 1295 minutes - that's a little over 21hrs 30min - of pure match time. On average a complete match was 12 minutes and 57 seconds. The shortest match was 5 minutes (against Nurse. Who would've guessed...) and the longest was a whopping 28 minutes (against a Nemo. Iirc it was a three gen followed by the last two survs crouching around edge map for over five minutes). Most matches were pretty spot on the average and lasted 13 minutes, give or take.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NR1TU46ZYG9D/duration.png
Pipping & Match Points
I pipped in 49 matches and depipped in 13. Overall I gained 41 pips. (During the first ten or so matches I was still Gold Grade.) The depips felt like a punch to the gut though; e.g. when the three others DCd, there was some serious camping/tunneling going on or that 4K-in-five-min Nurse match. On pretty much all the occasions I depipped it was out of my control.
On average I got ~18.5k points in the match result screen. The lowest score was 3900 in that 4K-in-five-min Nurse match. The highest score I got was 31037. 13 matches were below 10k points. 13 matches were above 10k and below 15k points. 32 matches were above 15k and below 20k points. 22 matches were above 20k points and below 25k points. 18 matches were above 25k points and below 30k points. Two matches were above 30k points.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8K3VWOTNGTAH/pips-points.png
Killers
The top most frequently faced killers were Nurse, Huntress, Blight, Legion and Wraith. I didn't face a single Twins or Hag and I only faced a single Plague, Billy and Slinger. Also just a single Clown but that might be due to Clown being disabled during almost all days I played.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TF7WYDSVH91C/killers.png
MY CONCLUSIONS SO FAR
My escape rate was higher than I thought it was - although it certainly didn't feel that way. Same goes for the average number of gens being completed being surprisingly high. And I also got more points on average than I would have guessed (I'd have said about 15k which is 3k less than it actually is). So, how come that matches still feel so, so, so much worse/unfun/frustrating/you name it than the numbers alone would suggest?
I don't have a definite answer but I have two guesses:
a) After losing a lot you eventually go up against killers that are way below you level and you escape for a couple of matches - but even though these matches are escapes they don't feel good. Because it feels a little like going up against the Trapper-bot in the Tutorial. When you're at a point where you're stuck with 1-2 team mates per match that crouch around, not touching anything or anyone until they know the killer is on the other side of the map and still manage to escape that says all anyone needs to know about the killer you go against and about how rewarding it feels to "win" an interaction (be that looping, escaping chase, throwing them off your trail, mind games or whatever).
b) The all-or-nothing nature in terms of outcomes. If I were to exclude the occasions where a killer made it a point to let the last survivor escape the 4K rate would be way over 50%. I alone have been given hatch or gate seven times - and while I didn't keep track of it for the others there were other survivors who did get hatch/gate because the killer wanted them to (literally carrying them there). The pretty much non-existent 2k also speaks volumes about how all-or-nothing matches are. Not to mention the massive snow-balling potential in SoloQ due to lack of basic communication. --- And considering the times where it was a 4E and then a last-second NOED-hit happened, or one unlucky one got basement camped at the end, the same is true for the survivor side. It's very stomp or be stomped - and as SoloQ you get stomped way more often than you stomp. And to me, personally, neither stomping nor getting stomped is fun.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
If anyone is curious about anything feel free to comment. - Also if there's something you wonder about, feel free to ask - maybe I have the numbers you're looking for.
There's also a part two coming at some point that's all about which loadouts my fellow survivors and the killers brought - but that would make this post explode and will also take some time so that's gonna be a while. Spoiler: Self Care is still a thing. And yes, Killers do stack slowdown a lot.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Change-Log:
08.08.22 - Corrected two mistakes I found; I missed to record one DC and one generator (2E at 4 gens seems quite impossible), so I corrected those two bits. I also added the "4K gen progress" bit and "5 gen outcomes" bit to this overview post.
You are looking at it from just your perspective, but what was the escape/kill rate for each game looking at your whole team? Like, you might have died, but did 2 of your teammates get out?
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@toxik_survivor said:
Mixed opinions is telling the devs that this game is balanced. The only way you guys will make a dent in changing this game is if you are all on board with the same thing. This game is obviously balanced because everyone is being biased to there own side and I would say there is an even amount on both sides. There's nothing much else to say.
Its definitely skill based.
The reality is solo queue is pretty miserable right now. But at the highest levels of play, this game heavily favors survivors without a doubt. Unless you are nurse, you probably end the game with 2-3 hooks. While at lower skill levels, this game favors killer where you are lucky if more than 1 or 2 gens get done. In the mid-range, it probably is balanced but sways heavily with RNG related to map RNG, as well as what each side decides to bring.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121233#Comment_3121233
Huntress and her splash damage hatchets are balanced? Last time I played against her, it was a twitch streamer on one of the Swamp map. I was repairing the second-level generator on the boat. The Huntress was below us, about 15 metres away. She threw three hatchets way over our head, she wasn't even close. But she was able to snowball and down us when we couldn't get to a tile and she was 10 metres away? Yes. He hatchets are splash damage, they are not balanced.
There's a Fortnite creative mode where you only get credit for damaging the opponent when the shotgun is a perfectly placed headshot. There is still building involved, editing, and more dynamic movement, such as jumping, etc. Compared to Huntress, it's two different worlds. She's not balanced, she's easy. All ranged killers in DBD are easy.
We aren't talking about huntress right now. This is about nurse and SWF, please stay on topic.
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@Zexbunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121174#Comment_3121174
No, you're arguing kill rates matter. They don't. Whether it's average players or top tier players. Kill rates are a meaningless statistic. And it's time we stop pretending otherwise
Kill rates do matter to the devs. It is literally listed as the reason they made the most recent changes.
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@Zexbunny said:
If you think kill rates are important, then you must want pinhead, Leatherface, plague and pig nerfed... Right?
Oh right, kill rates only mean anything when they fit your argument
Actually that's my point. These kill rates are averaged across all ranks. So these are "the average player" the argument we always hear about why survivors can't be nerfed is because "SWF kill squads are rare and aren't the majority of players" or "we can't balance around top players"
Thus my argument is simple. If we can't balance around top level players, and instead balance around the average ones, then we need to nerf leatherface, pinhead, pig, plague and buff nurse, trickster and twins. However, if we decide that leatherface, pinhead, pig, and plague are fine and nurse needs nerfs, then we need to also nerf survivors more.
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@Regulus47 said:
Lol. Nice try, nurse profile picture.
Nurse is broken and people are tired of her, and survivors just got nerfed. Nerfing survivors again will kill this game. Maybe after nurse/blight/artist/trickster/slowdowns are nerfed, then we can consider weakening the role at top level a bit. But it's not about survivor nerfs right now.
trickster
I think everything you post on this subject is probably invalid.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121029#Comment_3121029
Nerfing survivors is also a bad idea. The highest level Nurse, Blight, and SWF counter each other. There's no issue with any of them because of this.
So then both are fine, and we shouldn't nerf them?
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
The killrate argument is to prove that most Nurses are bad, nothing more.
The proof that Nurse is balanced is tournaments.
Correct, just as the kill rate is an excuse for bad survivors. We should nerf survivors because in the hands of the highest level SWF kill squads survivors are obviously far too powerful.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
She is strong in the hands of somebody who is experienced with her. If not, she is a weak killer prone to be bullied. Hence why people play her for a couple games then quit.
Excellent, we agree then. Sounds like we need to nerf survivors then. Since in the hands of a SWF kill squad, survivors are too strong.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117642#Comment_3117642
I have a name too. Honey is a nickname, not meant to be taken seriously. Deadnaming is calling someone by their old name that they don't use anymore for whatever reason. But again, whatever. If you don't want me to call you something, I won't call you it.
Solo is weak because of bad players, nothing more. Balancing around bad survivors and good killers is stupid. If you aren't running SWF, don't complain about Nurse or Blight. Because at the end of the day, they're both meta, and if you aren't running one you forfeit the right to complain about the other. This applies to BOTH sides.
Correct, it's because of bad players. You never balance games around bad players. No other game does that. What you do, is you balance around the top level players, while simultaneously doing things to improve the lower level play.
For example, let's say there was a character, who is extremely overpowered against average players, but at the highest level play, this character is terrible and loses every game. What you do, is identify the reasons why that is in both cases, and make changes that make the character less powerful in the hands of the average players, or less oppressively to them, while also buffing the aspect that makes them weak in high level play.
You can't just buff and nerf things in a vacuum. You need to take into account all levels of play.
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Just because something is rare, doesn't mean it is balanced:
Let's say there was a killer offering that did the following:
- All survivors are permanently exposed
- The aura of all survivors is permanently revealed to the killer
- The killer's movement speed is increased to 300%
- The killer can mori every survivor without hooking them.
Now let's make the rarity of that offering be .1%. This means you only see if one out of every thousand games. Is that balanced because it is rare?
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@LeeONE said:
For each uniquely hooked survivor afflicts Survivors with a stack-able 2 % Action Speed penalty, if 4 different survivors are hooked at least once, increases the Action Speed penalty by a further 8 %
Additionaly each injured, dying, or hooked Survivor afflicts Survivors with a stack-able 1% action speed penalty
With such rework thana is viable on any killer, not only legion and plague, but they are still having some benefits for injuring everyone, also it promotes to not tunnel to gain that bonus
Ofc numbers are just to keep current 20% penalty, you can change them however you want to
Thoughts?
I think then it just becomes another slowdown perk.
Thana should work by slowing down the game because survivors want to spend time healing. I'd say instead of it effecting the whole team. It should be something like this. When injured by the killer, you receive the "pain" status effect. While in pain:
- Your generator repair speeds are reduced by 50% (yes 180 seconds on a gen)
- You unlock the ability to self-heal at 100% healing speed (does not stack)
- You are not able to be inflicted with the "Mangled or Hemorrhage" status effects
- Other survivors will heal you at 200% healing speed (does not stack)
- You mend at 100% bonus speed
- You are able to heal yourself from the "broken" status effect"
This basically encourages the survivor while injured to not work on gens and get a heal, either from a teammate or themselves. Additionally the mending speed increase and healing from broken deal with this being completely OP on legion and plague.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117253#Comment_3117253
What on earth are the survivors doing if they're going down in under 20-30 seconds? I know it happens, but that's so hard to do unless you're simply not running away from the killer at the start of the chase.
You haven't played against a nurse with 1k hours have you? A good nurse will land a hit every time she blinks in a chase.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
That NOED nerf didn't really do much at all. I still see people run it and it this results in same issues like before: People will not try to find to totem for many reasons and it still feels cheap. SoloQ vs NOED is unchaged pretty much.
So because people still run it, it's a problem>??
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117245#Comment_3117245
It’s not that simple lol. Please explain how nurse’s base kit is overpowered.
Its about the chase to gen speed ratio a normal killer typically can end a chase (when the survivor plays well) in about 50-60 seconds (which is too slow TBH) But nurse can do it in about 15 seconds (which is too fast)
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117227#Comment_3117227
Overpowered perhaps because YOU put the hours in, as I said in the OP. This case can be made about literally any killer. Look at D3ad Plays for example, one of the nastiest killers on the game. He 4k’s the sweatiest SWFs with a trapper, because he’s put the hours in to learn the game to the extent he has. Same with nurse. You HAVE to put time in to learn her to an extent to compete with skilled survivors. And again, a nurse with no addons is quite easy to counter.
Doesn't matter how many hours it is. If something is overpowered, it's overpowered. It doesn't matter how rare or difficult it is.
Let's say there was a killer offering that did the following:
- All survivors are permanently exposed
- The aura of all survivors is permanently revealed to the killer
- The killer's movement speed is increased to 300%
- The killer can mori every survivor without hooking them.
Now let's make the rarity of that offering be .1%. This means you only see if one out of every thousand games. Is that balanced because it is rare?
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@RatbasterdJr said:
We’ve all seen the countless threads on “nurse is so broken and overpowered”.
Truth is, she’s not. While yes, going against somebody who has mastered nurse is quite annoying, I believe it is her addons that need a change, particularly the range addons and the recharge addons.
I see a lot of comments claiming anybody can hop on nurse and dominate, and that simply isn’t true. I’ve put a lot of hours into killer, and my first couple days of trying nurse were miserable. A nurse that doesn’t know how to play nurse is by far the EASIEST killer to bully, and that’s a fact. People play nurse for the first time, and don’t play her again, leaving the remainder of the nurse population as the players that have put the time in to get good at her power. Combine this with dual range or recharge and it’s nasty. This is why I believe the addons are the issue, not the base kit.
Nurse among all killers, has the lowest kill rate for a reason. Just something to think about. My honest opinion, welcome to debate! (Also many survivors have no idea how to counter nurse)
I am a nurse main with 2k hours. She is overpowered, but a nerf will not fix her. She need a complete rework.
HOWEVER. She should not be "dealt with" until the power of SWF is dealt with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=4sStuff like this should not be allowed. We need to buff solo queue so that they have more information. SWF like this get dozens of perks for free and many other abilities that aren't perks. Then we need to buff killers as a whole.
We need to close the gap between solo and SWF or flat out remove SWF or make them a different queue that killers can queue into and get bigger rewards. Maybe make it a new game mode entirely that has different balance than solo queue by having different numbers for things/objectives.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116390#Comment_3116390
why do killers constantly need to be incentivized to leave the hook and play a decent game?
BBQ incentivized leaving the hook
POP incentivized leaving the hook
Thana incentivized injuring more people
etc etc, it's so funny to me that killers needs little treats and rewards to play a normal, fun match, and when they aren't getting those they just think standing still in front of the first person they find and tunneling them relentlessly is all they have left, I'm so bored of "I'm not incentivized to do this" as an excuse.
That's what is called optimal play. If you play to win, and camping and tunneling is at that moment the most effective strategy to win the game, then you can only blame the devs for not making NOT camping and tunneling the incentive, they need to do more to encourage killers to not camp or tunnel by changing fundamental parts of the game to make it less effective by slowing the game down more and pressuring survivors more when you don't camp, not by bandaiding everything with a perk.
There are tons of ways to do this
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Fog Whisperers are probably targeted the most by those Hackers. The other person I have seen targeted a lot is an ex-Fog Whisperer (not tru3), who is pretty unbearable to watch. And with this person, I think it is pretty funny that Hackers are annoying them.
That being said, I dont encounter Hackers in my games, so disabling the DC-penalty would be wrong for the general player (which makes at least 99% of the playerbase).
So I can just guess that Fog Whisperers are targeted way more often than others so they can DC. And it is not as if they can DC whenever they like, if they are doing it in regular matches without Hackers involved, they will probably lose their Fog Whisperer-Status pretty fast.
I'd say in the past week or 2 probably about 5% of my games have a hacker, many of which held the game hostage. 1 Was subtle hacking (had endurance every time i hit them even though they had no perks and no items that gave endurance and wasn't off of hook or anything.) And another where they just finished all the gens and immediately escaped in 5 seconds. It's happening to regular people too.
The problem is that they target you. For example, let's say i don't play by the survivor rulebook one game and they get mad. Now they can target me by joining my lobby over and over again and having a different name.
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@ICrowzI said:
Why though? It was a great perk for survivors and killers had to actually be good to get around it..
Dead hard was not though. In the hands of good survivors, it became a third health state. Nobody had a problem with the idea of using dead hard to dodge a hit. Because that has counterplay. Using what we called "dead hard for distance" where you just dash forward a bit so you can reach a pallet or window sooner effectively made it another health state and had absolutely 0 counterplay from the killer. You basically looped around something more than you should have been able to, and then you reset the loop creating effectively a 3rd health state.
The biggest problem too was, unlike the other exhaustion perks, it had no downside. It could always be used in every chase, even if you were already injured. Every other exhaustion perk had some kind of downside.
Now, it is in a much healthier state. The duration is short enough that you can't "dead hard for distance" nearly as effectively anymore. Additionally, it has downsides, in that it doesn't have any effect when you already have endurance.
Now with decisive strike. The main problem was using it in endgame. Where effectively, it became a free escape, 5 second stun was enough where you could make it to the exit gate from pretty much anywhere, especially with your teammates body blocking. This meant that if you still had it in the endgame, your team basically gets out guaranteed. Now, since it deactivates in end-game, it no longer can be exploited this way.
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@BigboiLevi said:
Right now my build is: NOED, bloodwarden, Discordance and franklins demise. Any tips?
So in general, when playing any killer i like to look at what they are weak at, and take perks to improve that. Pyramid head has a pretty decent chase power and a decent time saver in hooking. The main way to play him is to basically loop, right click, if they vault, you use your power, if they don't, you cancel. And there is some mindgame where you both try and play around that and see what each survivor is doing.
On the other hand though, he has absolutely terrible map pressure because he can only walk to the other side of the map and his power doesn't help him on gens at all. Because of that, i would take slowdown perks that don't require much action from you. Stuff like:
- Corrupt Intervention
- Deadlock
- Discordance (to help find survivors)
- Monitor and Abuse (helps you get closer to survivors before they can spot you)
- I'm all Ears (works great with his power)
- Lethal Pursuer (to help find survivors quickly in the beginning and pairs well with "I'm all ears"
I'd avoid hook perks, like dead man's switch, or scourge hook because sometimes you won't be able to hook them.
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@Pepsidot said:
Well then, you make a good point and a good suggestion of setting a max cap on Merciless Storm, but nevertheless the devs will probably just buff it next patch so that survivors scream when it is activated. Unfortunately.
A better suggestion would be not caring because merciless storm is a terrible perk.
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@JoByDaylight said:
No thank you. The idea is interesting but whenever a killer gets a down and first hook, progress on gens basically stops. 1 unhooking/healing, 1 in chase and 1 doing gen. And this is in a perfect swf style. In solo there would likely be no gen progression, at least in my experience. This would kill us solos even more than what has already been done.
So you are saying when playing well this system works fine but when playing poorly it doesn't? Sounds like they need to either remove SWF, or buff solo queue to have more information/communication with each other.
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@adam1233467 said:
While nurse exist this system cannot exist, sorry
Whataboutism.
While SWF of this level exist, we can't buff survivors in any way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s -
@PyroDude said:
I wanna do a Killer meme build that only focuses on maxing out your bp categories.
Since BBQ is no longer giving bonus points at the end of the match I am looking for a perk that helps you maxing out Brutality (if there is one).
We got perks that give you extra Deviousness and Hunting points and Sacrifice is earned by hooking so something that helps with Brutality would be great.
Legion or doctor are the best killers for farming. Legion is probably a bit better as frenzy gives deviousness and brutality. Often you get a ruthless killer and get no kills just because you do so many "chases"
Doctor might be better though as i find legion makes people ragequit or DC so you end up getting less points overall.
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@Mekochi said:
So during the course of Dead by Daylight, there has to be at least one match where you have been mistaken for hacking despite you just using the mechanics at your roster or just a weird de-sync issue that happened on the other players end.
So the Doctor himself didn't accuse me, but I feel it may have seemed pretty fishy from his end cuz he wasn't on Xbox. Despite me being in his shock range, there were plenty of times his shock shoulda got me since I was standing in/on the edge of it. I don't know how it looked on his end, but I'm assuming it looked pretty suspicious that none of his shocks were touching me except on a rare occasion.
Many times, usually from people who hide in a locker and didn't realize i saw them go in it on bbq, or some other detection. So i just walk over to the locker and grab them.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113574#Comment_3113574
To be fair 99% of swf can not play with that kind of coordination what they have. Most play just casually.
That is not the point. It doesn't matter how rare it is. It still is overpowered and is why this game can never be balanced properly. Until you fix this, you can't ever buff survivors enough to make solo queue not terrible. They have to bridge the gap.
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Especially since survivors will just hook suicide if they can't dc and it happens all the time. Additionally killers can just go face a wall and the game will end after a few minutes.
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@JPLongstreet said:
While I agree the hacking cheating players are a problem, turning off the dc penalties is not the solution. Every time they have to disable it the amount of petty dc's for the slightest thing in either role increases very badly, making the game almost unbearable.
Better to have a game end quickly because someone ragequit then to be held hostage for over an hour because a hacker won't let the game end or force you to take a long dc penalty, especially since they are targeting people and doing it multiple times in a row.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111261#Comment_3111261
This was before the patch and the nurse was not using range add ons. Probably was playing more casually whereas survivors were playing like it was championship on stage.
It's not the point that the nurse lost here, that's not what matters here. What matters is the level of coordination these people have when working together. No solo queue team would ever be able to do this without voice chat. Their communication here gives them dozens of perks for free, and many other "abilities" that we could only ever dream of being a perk.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112436#Comment_3112436
It doesn't make much of a difference to an experienced player. I am not saying Solo Q shouldn't get some form of "This person is doing x" "That person is doing y" "That other person is doing z"... but to the level that you are describing when not even in a common swf group this isn't happening? Nah. The guy talking sounds like he is in panic mode the whole match.
If you are familiar with maps, totem spawns, perks on the killer side (if you play killer), how a killer is playing (example: they slug a lot) you'll be better prepared for the match. A lot of those pieces aren't going to fall into place even if the teammate is handing out information about killer whereabouts and whether you should be on a gen or not.
From my experience a lot of Solo Q players lack a lot of that... so my main frustration is them not getting on a gen even when it is something obvious like me being the obsession and the damn bones are rattling the whole time only for me to finally go down and see people crouching around the map because they somehow think the gen is going to bite them.
In the new meta it has made those frustrations more potent because the pace of the game has slowed down even more at default now.
I do agree with one thing you said... the devs design perks to act as band-aids while overlooking the problem this creates... like when you can stack on passives of the same exact effect, and not giving the proper PRE-LOBBY information tools such as being able to see perks prior to entering a match... seeing what everyone is bringing to the table. An icon indicating your location per entering the match. Etc etc.
The game has evolved way too much with perks literally giving survivor location almost for free. You run by a totem? Yep killer saw you with Undying... You are meters from a locker? Yup killer saw you with Darkness Revealed... It's like there is no longer a sense of the killer using their senses and skills to find you. If there is it is very minimal, and even with that too easy on killers with high mobility.
No, solo queue problems are purely communication. If a SWF group has 2k MMR and a solo queue player has 2k MMR, in theory they should be equally skilled. If anything i'd argue the solo player is probably the better player in terms of mechanical skill due to not having coms. Yet still that solo queue player will lose a significant amount of their games simply due to their team being unable to communicate with each other.
You also aren't acknowledging how many perks SWF truly get for free simply by being on coms. In fact, they get many other things that you can't even get via perks.
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@BenOfMilam said:
When is the Nurse rework coming?
No, not a "we gave her two more meme add-ons and doubled her cooldown", a real bottom-up rework that allows Nurse to co-exist with the rest of the Dead By Daylight killers and knock her off of the unhealthy platform of the only killer where your best counterplay is dying somewhere inconvenient.
I'm not going to get into add-ons or perks, because I exclusively play perkless and add-onless as Nurse and I still stomp every game as long as I least look at the screen while I'm playing.
Nurse is piss easy. No, I'm not joking or exaggerating, nor am I trying to stir the pot. "Nurse is the hardest killer in DbD" is a lie we've told ourselves for far too long. Play one or two matches with her (and maybe bring Plaid Flannel) and seriously try to tell me she's any kind of difficult when she ignores pretty much every rule in the game.
Dead By Daylight is game where you live or die (or kill) based on minute positioning details. It's all about making the other player hesitate for even just a moment so you can get a half meter of distance and safely drop a pallet or vault a window (or hit them when you trick them into being out of position). This is more or less the entirety of chase in DbD. Fighting tooth and nail just to get a few feet away.
Nurse ignores all of this. She goes straight through the windows, the pallets, the walls, even the floor and the ceiling, and she gets right on top of you and hits you while you can do literally nothing. Then she does it again in mere seconds, and you're on the hook. There is no more game. No more choices to make, no more split second decisions and reads. It might as well be "Bubble Popper Clicking Simulator" for the Nurse and "How long can you hold Shift+W?" for the survivor. (yes there is counterplay to Nurse, it's just all really dependent on the Nurse player being bad... which is not what counterplay means).
So, teleporting on command to the extent that Nurse does is bad, but costly and conditional teleports like Freddy, Sadako, and Dredge are fine. But this begs the question, what the hell can we do to fix Nurse? Should she be completely reworked from the ground up for the sake of the health of game? No more teleporting for Nurse? Should she be nerfed significantly? Maybe just not teleport through walls at least?
I don't know. If this was my mess to fix, I would opt to completely change her from the ground up. Even if it meant upsetting fans of the killer. They did it to classic Freddy back in the day and turned one of the most unique and interesting killers (but also one of the worst) into a fairly boring but effective killer. Boring is at least better than broken in my opinion, and having a character that is an undisputed S+ tier for over half a decade is probably not a good thing.
She can get fixed when SWF gets fixed. As it stands she is the only killer that is capable of going against a SWF of this level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zwEven with that, it is an extremely uphill battle for her.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111261#Comment_3111261
Why do you need someone to tell you the killer is on them to work on a gen?
Expecting THAT is actually the problem. Any competent experienced player knows they need to be on a gen, not wait until someone is being chased.
Meanwhile my team and I are talking about a job promotion someone just got and what I had for lunch.
I was merely using that as a point. Something as simple as "i'm working a gen" is impossible to communicate out without perks.
The problem is the devs designed this game such that information is a limited resource in the form of "perks" but SWF get literally dozens of these "perks" for free, given that they are simply on coms with each other.
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@AcelynnBen said:
SoloQ is sure as hell extremely weak and needs help
but survivor is far from weak, if survivor was weak as everyone says
wouldn't bully squads and clicky clickies poof away?, i still meet a lot of them, i mean most of them tend to turn off their brains so basically a free game if u play any killer that isn't M1 and play with certain perks
SWF would also feel weak if survivor was week, yet they still give so much pressure, not as much but still almost the same
some perks didn't need to get butchered or even touched like MoM
but again the devs are keeping their eyes on every perk that is being overused or being a bit broken and literally killing them
-here lies Thana and Ruin, may they rest in peace and never be used again thanks to EVERY DAMN LEGION
and survivors could help the devs understand the game better if stopped dc or afking after getting hooked once
Welcome to the party. This is the core problem with the balance of this game. SWF like this exist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zwThey have made maps that have areas that have designated numbers and call out to each other.
Meanwhile people in solo queue can't even say they are working a gen. Until this problem is fixed, this game will never be balanced.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
As we've seen in the most recent patch, in the custom match, the RPD map now says the East Wing which I'm sure is a mistake but is probably what we will see with the map rework. It seems they took the idea I and others had. It didn't have to have a complete rework of it's layout. That would've been a very annoying change and would've ruined the map. The best change was to just have multiple versions which has certain points blocked off depending on the one you get to make the map smaller which I'll admit is a good thing. Now this is obviously assuming this is simply what it is but it probably is. Maybe they might've made the loops lightly different or something but that remains to be seen. If this is how you changed it though, thanks for not butchering one of the coolest maps in the game.
I dunno if you played RE, but there are many other areas that exist outside of the actual building. There are outdoor areas, a parking garage, etc, that could be incorporated to increase the size of the map, while cutting the indoor part in half.
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@Dead_Harder said:
This is proof that Nurse has no counter play and must be reworked. Please rework her power to be more counterable, she should be able to set her teleports before hand. Where those teleports are set should be visible to survivors so there is counter play and if Nurse manages to lure survivors to those set teleport points she should be able to ''activate'' her teleport via another button to teleport there. Please make it so.
Here is the actual video. Even though they get 4ked in the first 2 minutes its still very enjoyable, please watch it.
TBH this is the type of gameplay that makes the game stupid. This needs to be dealt with. I don't care that it is rare. These people literally have marked out specific spots on the map to call out numbers. The game is not balanced for these types of people and it should be dealt with. We need to allow solo queue players to have more information and more communication with each other so that the gap between these can at least be somewhat closed. Then we can buff the killers such that this kind of thing is more fair even when they play against a top killer.
Either that, or we need to get these types of players out of the general queue and give them their own queue to play competitive matches. Maybe a new game mode where the game has different rules to maintain better balance.
As it stands, these types of people could go against the best nurse player in the world and the result would probably be the same.