Raccoon
Raccoon
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- Raccoon
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@[Deleted User] said:
People are fed up with getting tunneled/slugged (or rather fed up with perceiving that they're getting tunneled/slugged, I'm not going to presume that everyone is rational while actively playing, I'm certainly not) and were ready for anything, even a completely flawed system that does more than just address hard tunneling/slugging, to alleviate these issues in the short term. Some killer players were also ready for the basekit fresh hook incentives because in their mind, the flaws of the system weren't going to be that big of a deal for them and their playstyle. I think they would've ended up complaining anyway, because someone like Scott Jund who held that opinion would've inevitably ran into a bullshit scenario and made a video about it, and if Scott Jund has a problem then clearly other likeminded people would have a problem because tribalism, but I digress (and poison the well with that thought). Then you have people that are just genuinely afraid that the entire plan might be scrapped or pushed waaaaaaaaay too the future, which is a rational fear all in all.
The thing about the first two of these is that like…people can just stop playing the game if they're that fed up, right? Wait a while longer and hope for a better outcome next time. But maybe they're still attached to FOMO and have a battlepass to complete. Or maybe people just really like complaining. Who knows.
The forums are the REAL game
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999198#Comment_3999198
Have people really avoided Twitch/Reddit/YouTube/these very forums during the PTB?
If they're all of equal quality, you've got jack. The forums mostly consisted of stuff like
'Survivors can just hard throw the match for a speed boost!'
'Why don't killers get [thing]? They do? Well in that case, it's useless!'
and
'If I do everything wrong, am I supposed to just lose?'
I'd suggest putting your biases aside and starting here:
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@tjt85 said:
Do you mean concrete evidence like this?
https://youtu.be/O8WNAwhqA7M?si=bNXF8wuio0JD-g7n
So here we have, a close fought battle between two evenly matched sides (2K for the Wesker). Was a fun watch and the result was what you might expect when there isn't much between two competitors. Anti-tunnel did trigger very near the end of the trial but the Killer still got a 2K. This is how my games go when I face Survivors that are as good (or as bad) as I am.
A Blight that could have picked up a slug and had two on the hook, but for some reason they didn't? Maybe there's a reason why they didn't pick but I'm not smart enough to figure it out.
A Clown that I thought would go all in on tunnelling (because that's what he's very good at) but… didn't? Also refused to kick a pallet that I would have kicked a hundred years ago because me see pallet, me kick pallet. Ending was quite exciting with the last second EGC escape.
And a Dracula that won his game handily, but for some reason they didn't want to play it out to the end. Weird.
I get that at a high level, small margins can make a big difference to the end result of a game. But I can promise you, every single one of these Killers would absolutely demolish every lobby I've ever been in. They could 12 hook most public lobbies if they wanted to. So I'm not sure what this video is meant to prove, because it has absolutely nothing to do with what the game is like for a majority of players. The funny thing is, the system can be fully deactivated for custom games like this!
I don't have time to critique every video. Point being, you can always edit a video to push a narrative. Even if they're not consciously doing it, people who play this game for a living are more likely to push a narrative that benefits their own interests.
Or how about this gem of a video, a regular Legion doing Legion things 12 hooking a team that features some of the same players in this showcase. Spoilers: they end a 201 game escape streak:
https://youtu.be/9_Pn_ockZY4?si=QwbsBxO1zaE9Ku6A&t=955
Proof that Legion is in urgent need of a nerf? Maybe Joey's Mixtape is too strong? Yes, I know this map is very Killer sided and they had the buffed Unbound equipped, but still... This game is just not that serious. Most people are playing for fun and tunnelling is not that. I could be totally wrong, but I find it hard to believe it would have been doomsday like many Killers were saying if this update had come to live.
P.s. If the random Legion ever reads this - Respect, you are a hero for all Legion kind <3.
He slugged to play around Deliverance.
That was under comp rules with survivor perks being extremely limited on a map that usually results in something between 4k2-4k0 for Blight, who in this instance, is arguably the best comp Blight on Earth. He struggled to get a 2K.
I dunno about the 2nd video - I stopped watching when I saw it wasn't PTB related.
Here's the Reddit thread on that video:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1n98hui/during_hens_ptb_pro_showcase_obii_team_elysium/ -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999198#Comment_3999198
There are issues, but they were fixable issues. That's sort of my argument. Yes, there were obvious flaws and honestly this PTB had way too much stuff in it, but the flaws were workable. The design is good, but the execution needs work.
The reason people are worried is because BHVR didn't try to address those issues, they just listened to the loudest cries (who usually claimed that it would kill the game if anything like it went live) and folded.
Historically, this usually results in stuff being neutered to the point of not really being worth the time. Will it be different this time? Time will tell, but I wouldn't bet on it.
As I've posted before, they could have used the PTB to tweak numbers/test alternate stuff.
It's a bit weird for them to be running the new killer/map changes with this system, now, as the feedback is going to be obfuscated by the system.
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Have people really avoided Twitch/Reddit/YouTube/these very forums during the PTB?
Sincerely asking as it's not very hard to find various instances of issues with the PTB.
Burying your head in the sand and farming updoots doesn't distort reality, I'm afraid.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999095#Comment_3999095
I love it. Kinda cute actually. Let's negate what someone says by claiming they are "some sort of name" brilliant really.
I've read the threads and see the videos all the issues people had could have been tweaked to solve. Behavior even them selves mentioned that these numbers would be altered to find a good balance. Somthing they didn't even get a chance to do because of the outcry and doom posting 3 days is how long it lasted.
People just want consistency why do they need to be patient and understanding for balance changes on ghoul and clown? But fog files got a week. Where was the posts from behavior telling the player base that they need to learn to adapt to changes on this one?
It's easy to wrap up and put a bow one some one like "lol they are crashing out" when you wish to dismiss their points and views. But I'm sure eventually one of your streamers will give you this insight (hopefully).
No one's negating anything.
You're simply hand waving away a mountain of evidence by saying 'killer mains.'
It's not a good way to engage or argue a point.
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@BbQz said:
So 2027? If we are lucky? Your well documented issues were killer mains doom posting to to get there way. Did you not see the state of the forums before the details even went live? Just the announcement had people all over demanding it be cancelled you think these people had unbiased discussions when the details got released? You think streamers who have their lively hoods at stake to be good and strong killers didn't have motivation to Poopoo this?
Like it or not I can say one positive thing about players that enjoy the role of killer they sure as hell know how to gate keep and protect their investment the survivor side of the game just log in and play for the most part it's why you see such a "game is survivor sided" echo chamber no matter what forums you go to even from people with 90% + kill rates. They keep their positions strong by fighting for it tooth and nail to the detriment of the survivor side every time which is why it takes weeks many times less time to fix a bug or over tuned issue with survivors but months or years for killers
I believe the well documented issues were actual videos from the PTB, but as the title suggests, you're crashing out.
Any commentary on the video evidence supplied by hundreds?
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@littlehoot said:
Well firstly you have to consider that a lot of people did not get to test these changes for themselves, and are unlikely to believe the opinion of others on what is kind of a subjective experience—because some people, according to posts and such, did in fact enjoy the changes.
Second of all, because the changes were incredibly long awaited promised relief for problems that have been frustrating a lot of players for a very long time. It's like…you're incredibly hungry, starving, and someone says 'at this time, you can have your favourite food'. And then that time arrives and they tell you, "well actually you can't have it yet. But at some undetermined point in the future you can!"
You're still pretty goddamn hungry, likely hangry, and now incredibly frustrated because you had something you wanted dangled in front of you and then snatched away at the last possible moment.
That's why people are crashing out. Because the issues that those changes were supposed to resolve—tunnelling and slugging—have been around for such a long time, and are so frustrating and game ruining for a lot of players, that when a solution was promised and then snatched away/delayed, it's really upsetting.
This is not to say I think that the changes should have gone live in their current state, or that BHVR was inherently wrong for making this decision. But when what was supposed to be a huge quality of life boon for survivor players got delayed indefinitely, especially very soon after some killers received questionable buffs (turbo Clown) and the first new survivor item in years was nerfed into oblivion within days of release, understandably, it has created some resentment and ill will towards the whole thing.
I was surprised the clown changes went through.
I made a bunch of posts about it stating it would just flip the script on the bottles and, what a surprise, it did.
The new clown changes are also not sufficient but I don't want to go off topic.
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You ok?
It's just a game.
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There's a Dramaturgy bug for infinite duration, but I don't know the one you're talking about.
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@Deadman7600 said:
ive not seen any, probably because theres not much positive to say. Except the Krasue, Puffalope and multiple youtubers have made positive videos about her.
Yeah - she seems fun.
Just seems weird to see so much backlash against BHVR's post here when it doesn't seem like there was much positive sentiment in the real world.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998014#Comment_3998014
I think we're going to be getting a direct quote from the devs from the OP soon!
Maybe that will clear things up!
Just finished lunch - where's the quote?!
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@Sava18 said:
I mean I never kill someone before 6 hooks myself but hooking 1 survivor, hooking another, back to first, hook another survivor and back to first again is most definitely not tunneling. That would be a very broad way to look define tunneling even if I think going back to hook often is boring.
I think we're going to be getting a direct quote from the devs from the OP soon!
Maybe that will clear things up!
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997860#Comment_3997860
What is the purpose of this comment other than fanning the flames of the “us vs them” toxicity? It’s really getting old.
This is going to be the norm for a while until the crashing out is over.
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@BoopsPlease said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997957#Comment_3997957
No, tunneling does not require intent. The same garbage killer just happening to find the person 15 seconds after unhooking and downing them until they die on hook IS TUNNELING no matter what. It doesn't matter if one other person got hooked during this time. A survivor was forced out of the game significantly earlier than what should be the case and now the killer has an incredibly easy time in a 3v1. This is exactly why tunneling existing in the game in the first place was a goddamn mistake. People are now trying to spin this into a "I am holier than thou" because they tunnel in a slightly different way than the 3k hour blight main leaving chase to go kill someone immediately. 99% of killers on these forums would have triggered the anti-tunnel every single game if they actually played with the changes instead of just insulting and threatening BHVR over and over again. Because they are tunneling. BHVR THEMSELVES HAVE NOW DEFINED WHAT TUNNELING IS ACCEPT IT
Just like they defined that their system is not very good at its desired goals and is not going live?
AcCePt It!!!
You seem to be crashing out and stereotyping people - it's just a game.
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@BoopsPlease said:
They already have, killing someone before 6 hooks is tunneling. The outrage just proves that even though something was DIRECTLY stated as being toxic and in need of punishing, there will always be people trying to move the goalposts. There is never a single instance in this game where killing someone before 6 hooks is a viable strat.
And before I have people trying to go off on me for being a "survivor main":https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OB091IMPICPN/image.png
My official stats from BHVR, from what it tracked at least.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/E15MKXKLL6Q5/image.png
And since I will get accused of being awful here are my ABOVE AVERAGE stats, where I average over 8 hooks per match.
Now. Give me an actual valid reason why tunneling someone before 6 hooks is necessary, and if your answer is "because SWF" then I am ignoring you, because a "solution" against 10% of games is not required for 90% of them.Where was the post stating tunneling is toxic and in need of punishing?
I think I may have missed it, but if the devs DIRECTLY said it, I'd like a link!
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.
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I hope the floor is ok from all this foot stomping.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997879#Comment_3997879
I love how you’re getting downloaded just because you looked at my post. 🤣
God forbid.
Most people aren't here for honest discourse / actually don't know what they're talking about, so it is to be suspected that there's a lot of reactionary nonsense.
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@Mayhem_Mo_YT said:
If I'm playing as Pig and a survivor dies to a Reverse Beartrap, will that trigger the second anti-tunnel effect?
You know it!
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@cogsturning said:
No one saw that coming, no sir.
I am sure I am at least 100x more shocked than you are.
100x zero is still zero, though ;3
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996900#Comment_3996900
Oh im sure. Theres just alot of people who are parroting "well just dont tunnel, duh" making it sound like thats the only thing really being affected.
There's a lot of people popping off that are completely detached from reality.
I'm looking forward to the incoming ban wave once the love notes are revealed and reality crashes down.
Happens every time @_@
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996878#Comment_3996878
I posted 2 examples with video. Neither involves hard tunneling.
There are tons of videos like those, now.
It's good that it's being showcased while in the PTB - that's what it's for, finding/exploiting stuff like this.
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Bear in mind, these are pros / this will probably not apply to normal people - Perk Restrictions apply.
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@sorenareagle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996200#Comment_3996200
Reference. There are also regional differences. In Japan, over 90% of players, regardless of platform or killer/survivor main, are upset with this update.
To begin with, the complexity of the game system has made it tougher for beginners, killers are finding it harder and harder to win matches even with advanced players, solo players are being intentionally abandoned, and some survivors are abusing the system and using themselves as bait and provocation because they are intentionally ignored by killers even when a hung survivor is spinning a generator in front of them. Some survivors exploit the system to repeatedly provoke the killer by taking the bait themselves.
The game has already collapsed.
Many people have declared that they will quit DBD if this content is implemented in the game as it is. Negative opinions from beginners to advanced players are in the majority.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Thanks for providing a new/regional perspective.
I appreciate you taking the time to translate your thoughts to share them with me :3
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https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1n8j6rb/the_worst_part_about_otzs_showcase/
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1n87152/this_update_does_not_spark_joy/
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1n7qxtv/i_dont_think_he_likes_the_new_changes/
It is interesting to see the posts on Reddit regarding the PTB vs the posts on the Official Forums.
With such a divide in commentary and perception across various platforms, I am genuinely excited to see what the final decisions are!
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THE JUICE FLOWS!
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steals your popcorn
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@Brimp said:
I just hope the anti tunnel thing is moved down to 3 hooks to give a repair speed bonus because that is what actual tunneling is and was conceptualized as.
I suspect they will adjust hooks and percentages if needed as they are all simple number changes.
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@cogsturning said:
Looking forward to implosion #2 in the forums.
The main thing is that we survive.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I'm more worried about my crow perk being touched i hear it was on the radar again
Which perk O_O;;
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
I for one will be waiting with a bowl of popcorn and laughing, the fallout will make for excellent Schadenfreude
How big is this bowl?
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@BbQz said:
It will take a few days for the streamers to tell everyone what they should think about it. I my self and really looking forward to knowing if I will be excited or outranged.
Hopefully you get an M1 killer so you will never be outranged, no matter what the streamers say!
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/455246/tomorrow-will-be-the-juiciest-of-days
Who will be 'right?'Who will 'eat Crow?'I think we're just getting started. Highly doubt there will be a consensus coming out of the announcement.
That's not even getting into the joy that will be the entire PTB as people argue about what they will nerf/buff.
Will the new killer be fun?It's so weird so much is coming at the same time. People will start talking about their hopes/fears for the patch and sometimes I'm like 'oh, yeah, there's the whole thing with Myers too'.
I'm a bit worried about his basekit Mori...I cannot lie!
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@Astel said:
I hope the numbers for this anti-tunneling to be properly tuned
It would be fun to watch people arguing each other for who's being right for at least 5 pages.
For sure.
It's really hard to take any sort of stance without complete information.
I wonder how many people are gonna time into the stream....these are the BIGGEST GAMEPLAY CHANGES EVERRRErrrrrrrr (echo fades)
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looks at BBQ grill and salt shaker
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@NovaliumTS said:
Honestly reading everything about his patch seems great
It might actually revive the survivor players by making it so not every game is a confirmed loss
Killer players will now get into matches much faster because of it aswell they get basekit bbq!
Literally all killer players need to do is not tunnel and theyre given really decent basekit buffs
Survivor players will be able to live for more than 5 minutes :D
As i see this patch going is tweaking it a lil finally bringing survivors back, then once the game is in a better position FINALLY working on survivor gen issue, because honestly people just saying gens should just take longer please just NO, give survivors a new objective to do heck i wouldnt even mind if it took longer to do then gens if its not just sat on a gen for 100 seconds like i loved the idea of the blood gens (though they definitely couldve taken longer to fill and reward all survivors who worked on it and not just the one to complete it) but 100% you cannot nerf gens until you get rid of the 1v3 meta without completely eradicating what remains of the survivor player base.
I'd hold off until you see what ACTUALLY makes it into the game.
We'll know pretty early into the PTB whether this bad boy is gonna go live or not >:3
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@CLHL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991189#Comment_3991189
Are you a wizard?
Sim Sim Salabim!
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I'm legitimately pumped to see how well some of these comments will age come next week.
It's gonna be a very fun time!
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@sinkra said:
Think about it, it means as soon as it gets to 2 survivors it means auto 4k. As soon as killer hooks one they see aura of remaining survivor, so no chance of a save or getting hatch. It means stealth is dead.
gets in locker after pick up
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Reddit seems to be taking it well:
https://tinyurl.com/rrggeherhwer
Also, without Floods of Rage or proxy camping, healing under hook seems like it will be free real estate.
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Boil Over is fine.
Furthermore, a nerf or change on one side does not necessitate such an action on the other.
This just seems like an Us vs Them post.
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Same old song,
Just a drop of water in an endless sea.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982716#Comment_3982716
I don't think you have to be in a party to have fun. I actually prefer solo most of the time and go on at odd times when I want to be alone. But a lot of people talk about solo like it's an unavoidable nightmare.
I like to play alone, most times, too.
It's fun to see how well I'll do with random teammates, their unknown perks, etc.It's also fun when we 'synch up' and get stuff like saves/gens/etc done just through game sense.
I guess I just like each game being different/being a little mysterious and surprising.
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Is the argument here that there are not any scenarios where picking up the survivor will result in a loss of pressure for the killer (ie obvious pallet/sabo/flashlight/bang saves, previously broken hooks due to early sabo/previous sacrifice, etc)?
These things all exist, objectively, and are a part of most games outside of low/low-mid gameplay.
I also don't understand why you would argue that you're being punished if you go down by a pallet or near someone with the ability to save and the killer tries to prevent this....these are all normal aspects of game play that should not be altered or discouraged. It's literally healthy/altruistic gameplay on the survivor end and also forces interaction/decision on the killer end.
It's straight up bizarre to see this being argued.
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Still no updates on anti-camp/tunnel as of this post.
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Community/veteran feedback ignored twice(watching that Walking Dead guy get cut off when he's just trying to help/have a good time was wild) leading to two apologies and damage control.
I wonder what the common trait is?!
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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980865#Comment_3980865
hens is literally in this video doing and saying the exact same thing as otz
Friendship with Hens ended!
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I sometimes forget that this game is rated 'M' for 'Mature.'