RSB
RSB
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Sugar, spice, everything nice and chemical "X"?
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@Vietfox said:
RSB said:What part of "Soon™" don't you understand? Be patient!
Can't believe i agree with you.
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We need to wait 25 minutes, or 2 hours and 25 minutes I think.
Is this "soon"?
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@Vietfox said:
RSB said:God, love how bunch of survbois from the @Vietfox stable are running around every of my posts on this forum, and spamming "LOL" on them XD Are you really that sad? I've earned ~100 lols in 10 minutes thanks to it XD Viet, please, tell them to boost something more, I don't know, Awesomes or Vote Ups xD
"Vietfox stable" i'm dying xDDD
Yeah, noticed it too. I swear i had nothing to do with that.Of course you did not, friend ;> Just give me 330 awesomes, for the achievement on forum, I know your guys can do it in a fast way.
And it stopped. I'm disappointed in you.
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God, love how bunch of survbois from the @Vietfox stable are running around every of my posts on this forum, and spamming "LOL" on them XD Are you really that sad? I've earned ~100 lols in 10 minutes thanks to it XD Viet, please, tell them to boost something more, I don't know, Awesomes or Vote Ups xD
PS. @Orion @Master I think they are trying to kill you with that "LOLs" too xD
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@Utna said:
I have a question about Hauted Ground: can the killer see the decoy totems from a distance, like he does with normal hexes totem ?I mean it could be confusing if he played this and Ruin, because he might end up defending a decoy totem. And if the killler decides to not defend his totems, survivors could be lucky to find Ruin first and waste 2 killer perks in one little cleanse.
He sees them as normal hexes.
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@Orion said:
@RSB said:
@Master said:
@Orion said:
@Master said:
Killing floor is a perfect example because a team of survivors (with guns) are trying to survive several zombie waves. When all survivors die within one wave, the game is lost.The killer can only blackpip even with 4 kills, just fyi, that much about the "win" for the killer

I never understood why the last survivor is entitled an escape if the survivors screwed up, but the killer only is supposed to get a 3k if he did very well
Now you're making me wanna play KF2 to torch some zeds.
At least there the dead zombies wont insult you and threaten your life for doing your objective

And won't escape through the hatch.
Quite the opposite - they come out of hatches.
At least they have balls lol
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@Master said:
@Orion said:
@Master said:
Killing floor is a perfect example because a team of survivors (with guns) are trying to survive several zombie waves. When all survivors die within one wave, the game is lost.The killer can only blackpip even with 4 kills, just fyi, that much about the "win" for the killer

I never understood why the last survivor is entitled an escape if the survivors screwed up, but the killer only is supposed to get a 3k if he did very well
Now you're making me wanna play KF2 to torch some zeds.
At least there the dead zombies wont insult you and threaten your life for doing your objective

And won't escape through the hatch.
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@Vietfox said:
RSB said:@Vietfox said:
@RSB said:
Tense match is a thing as long as the killer is able to kill. Maybe not when standing at the gate but this is a hatch thread after all.
Nice dodge. The dc trick is rarely done, they need to be swfs, be in comms and find the hatch first so they can secure the escape. Rarely? These days, when 70% of survivors are in SWF, in 100% of my matches the third surv DCs, when I slug him. As i said once, you'd be surprised how often i play as a killer. Mainly to not get rusty on "how the killer things", learn from other survivors and stuff, so yeah, i can see killer's side by myself. Playing killer on low ranks is not a good source of informations about current state of balance. The difference between you and me is that you are way more emotional and get upset for things that i don't. Of course, honey ;> Nown I'm literally hitting the keyboard with my head, while you are meditating on your bed, dressed in Shaolin monk's robes. Sure, that's how it is. Is it how you imagine me and you? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not angry, just tired of biased people. That percentage has been proven to be false by several people from this forum with dbd data, you just say it to make is sound more dramatic. As already estated, it's too easy to rank up. So even being a survivor main you can reach red ranks as a killer, 1 month is enough time...
Well, it was funny to see you and @Mycroft yesterday throwing ######### at survivor players and calling them "stupid" and not a single survivor main fell for that bait. That also shows who is the emotional and childish one. Dodging and dodging. Won't answer to you, unless you answer on my questions. And since you are dodging hard, guess I don't need to answer to you at all.
Lol, i actually answered to what you said xDD. I guess you say that every time you run out of ideas. Okay then.
Answered?
So why there is no "tense match", when killer gets his ass kicked? Hm? Why there should be a "tense match" ONLY when killer wins?
""just brick di ballet" - yeah, sure. How about I slug the third surv, and he DCs, to give his teammate a free win?
Why do you, survivor mains, DEMAND a free wins and second chances in this game? While us, 50/50 players and killer mains need to tryhard, because survs and the game throws everything at us? Map design, pallet design, perks design and this hatch - there is no such things for the killers, as second chances etc. Even their greatest perks are destroyable, while you can use SC, BT and SB many times, and no one will take it from you.
When I play Survivor with my SWF buddies we are totally goofing around and still winning. We can play on a map like in a sandbox, play with the killer, and still 3-4 of us escape. Got hit? "Yeah, I've got SC, will massage my ass and everything will be okay". I even refuse to use DS, because the couple of times I did, I felt like a dirty [BAD WORD]. When you play as a killer sometimes, you know how frustrating it is, and how unfair. Something you clearly do not understand. When biased survs dare to try killer for the first time in their lives, and go with him on mid-high ranks, they drastically change their opinon on how "killer is ez". Wonder why there are no killers who say "You know what? I've tried that surv, it is really hard, harder than playing killer".
If you do not see this, then I do not see an incentive to discuss with you either."
Where are your "answers" to this post? If you want to lie, at least try to look serious.
Thought u were leaving

Ok, read what you just posted and read what i answered. If you read properly you'll see how your posts and mine are related to the same topics. Just read mate!
PS: i foresee another "dodge and dodge reply of yours" xD but i'm not gonna bother on writing the same stuff again because:
1 - i'm using the cellphone
2 - it's already written- You can even send me a pigeon.
- It is not.
- Love you, my chubby sweetroll.
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Killer = the best easthetics in the game, current raith tier killer, sadly. Perks are okayish.
Survivor = his look is meh, perks sounds okayish too.
Map is very well made (not mentioning bugs and fat-shame spots).
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Tense match is a thing as long as the killer is able to kill. Maybe not when standing at the gate but this is a hatch thread after all.
Nice dodge. The dc trick is rarely done, they need to be swfs, be in comms and find the hatch first so they can secure the escape. Rarely? These days, when 70% of survivors are in SWF, in 100% of my matches the third surv DCs, when I slug him. As i said once, you'd be surprised how often i play as a killer. Mainly to not get rusty on "how the killer things", learn from other survivors and stuff, so yeah, i can see killer's side by myself. Playing killer on low ranks is not a good source of informations about current state of balance. The difference between you and me is that you are way more emotional and get upset for things that i don't. Of course, honey ;> Nown I'm literally hitting the keyboard with my head, while you are meditating on your bed, dressed in Shaolin monk's robes. Sure, that's how it is. Is it how you imagine me and you? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not angry, just tired of biased people. That percentage has been proven to be false by several people from this forum with dbd data, you just say it to make is sound more dramatic. As already estated, it's too easy to rank up. So even being a survivor main you can reach red ranks as a killer, 1 month is enough time...
Well, it was funny to see you and @Mycroft yesterday throwing ######### at survivor players and calling them "stupid" and not a single survivor main fell for that bait. That also shows who is the emotional and childish one.
Dodging and dodging. Won't answer to you, unless you answer on my questions. And since you are dodging hard, guess I don't need to answer to you at all.
Lol, i actually answered to what you said xDD. I guess you say that every time you run out of ideas. Okay then.
Answered?
So why there is no "tense match", when killer gets his ass kicked? Hm? Why there should be a "tense match" ONLY when killer wins?
""just brick di ballet" - yeah, sure. How about I slug the third surv, and he DCs, to give his teammate a free win?
Why do you, survivor mains, DEMAND a free wins and second chances in this game? While us, 50/50 players and killer mains need to tryhard, because survs and the game throws everything at us? Map design, pallet design, perks design and this hatch - there is no such things for the killers, as second chances etc. Even their greatest perks are destroyable, while you can use SC, BT and SB many times, and no one will take it from you.When I play Survivor with my SWF buddies we are totally goofing around and still winning. We can play on a map like in a sandbox, play with the killer, and still 3-4 of us escape. Got hit? "Yeah, I've got SC, will massage my ass and everything will be okay". I even refuse to use DS, because the couple of times I did, I felt like a dirty [BAD WORD]. When you play as a killer sometimes, you know how frustrating it is, and how unfair. Something you clearly do not understand. When biased survs dare to try killer for the first time in their lives, and go with him on mid-high ranks, they drastically change their opinon on how "killer is ez". Wonder why there are no killers who say "You know what? I've tried that surv, it is really hard, harder than playing killer".
If you do not see this, then I do not see an incentive to discuss with you either."
Where are your "answers" to this post? If you want to lie, at least try to look serious.
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@Vietfox said:
RSB said:@Vietfox said:
RSB said:
@Vietfox said: RSB said:
@Vietfox said: RSB said:
@Vietfox said: Master said:
@ThatOneGuy said: Sorry but killers should NOT be able to grab someone who has already started to “escape” through the hatch. It is total B.S. and unfair that something like that is even allowed to happen especially when the killer is camping the hatch. It is the last players last resort to escaping and you mean to tell me that the killer can stop them from even doing that! Sorry but that’s just another reason why this game sucks hard core and is in heavier favor of the killer than it is the survivor. Who ever thought that was a good idea can be fired plz and thank you. Don’t care what anyone else has to say I’m venting so leave me alone. Want to know what is unfair? When killer ######### earns his 4k, but the game decided to give a free win to the survivor, who did nothing but hiding all the game, or doing mere 2 gens. Thats shows how often you play as a survivor. If you played more as a survivor you'll know that there are many cases where the last survivor managed to do well, not hiding all the time or just doing 2 gens.
You want 4K? Slug the 3rd one and go kill the 4th one. Your complaints are as valid as OP's ones Usually in teamgames, the whole team loses when it does bad. Imgine for example in killing floor if the last guy alive could press a nuke button and magically win the game, that would be weird AF, do you agree?
Never played that game so i can't really tell, but doesnt sound as the same situation because i understand that you meant there are 2 teams and last one from the losing team get to kill the other team by pressing that nuke button.In dbd you get 3k even if the last survivor escapes, you don't die and 3K it's still a win for the killer. So, by your logic, killers should have one free kill at the end. What? 3 escaped, what's the problem? Unfair? Oh, how sweet.
That's why you got end-game perks like noed or rancor. Especially this last one, which gives you a free kill for not doing your job. Kek, you've destroyed yourself. You have perks to do gens, so why are you relying on hatch? Said perks gives you advantage for not doing your job. Use this - https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Left_Behind easy fix. That's why you got end-game perks, as you said. Oh, what? Only killers should use perks to help them on endgame, while survivors should be handed a free escapes, so they can keep their DS, BT, SC and SB? Sad. Oh, you mean that? I've explained it several times and yet you seem to ignore it.
Hatch is meant to provide a tense match till the very end. If there are 2 or 3 gens left and you are alone then you'll end up dead, even if you have LB. I'll say it again, you can counter the hatch by slugging second last survivor, problem solved. So why there is no "tense match", when killer gets his ass kicked? Hm? Why there should be a "tense match" ONLY when killer wins? "just brick di ballet" - yeah, sure. How about I slug the third surv, and he DCs, to give his teammate a free win? Why do you, survivor mains, DEMAND a free wins and second chances in this game? While us, 50/50 players and killer mains need to tryhard, because survs and the game throws everything at us? Map design, pallet design, perks design and this hatch - there is no such things for the killers, as second chances etc. Even their greatest perks are destroyable, while you can use SC, BT and SB many times, and no one will take it from you. When I play Survivor with my SWF buddies we are totally goofing around and still winning. We can play on a map like in a sandbox, play with the killer, and still 3-4 of us escape. Got hit? "Yeah, I've got SC, will massage my ass and everything will be okay". I even refuse to use DS, because the couple of times I did, I felt like a dirty [BAD WORD]. When you play as a killer sometimes, you know how frustrating it is, and how unfair. Something you clearly do not understand. When biased survs dare to try killer for the first time in their lives, and go with him on mid-high ranks, they drastically change their opinon on how "killer is ez". Wonder why there are no killers who say "You know what? I've tried that surv, it is really hard, harder than playing killer". If you do not see this, then I do not see an incentive to discuss with you either.
Tense match is a thing as long as the killer is able to kill. Maybe not when standing at the gate but this is a hatch thread after all.
Nice dodge.
The dc trick is rarely done, they need to be swfs, be in comms and find the hatch first so they can secure the escape.
Rarely? These days, when 70% of survivors are in SWF, in 100% of my matches the third surv DCs, when I slug him.
As i said once, you'd be surprised how often i play as a killer. Mainly to not get rusty on "how the killer things", learn from other survivors and stuff, so yeah, i can see killer's side by myself.
Playing killer on low ranks is not a good source of informations about current state of balance.
The difference between you and me is that you are way more emotional and get upset for things that i don't.
Of course, honey ;> Nown I'm literally hitting the keyboard with my head, while you are meditating on your bed, dressed in Shaolin monk's robes. Sure, that's how it is. Is it how you imagine me and you? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not angry, just tired of biased people.
That percentage has been proven to be false by several people from this forum with dbd data, you just say it to make is sound more dramatic.
As already estated, it's too easy to rank up. So even being a survivor main you can reach red ranks as a killer, 1 month is enough time...
Well, it was funny to see you and @Mycroft yesterday throwing ######### at survivor players and calling them "stupid" and not a single survivor main fell for that bait. That also shows who is the emotional and childish one.
Dodging and dodging. Won't answer to you, unless you answer on my questions. And since you are dodging hard, guess I don't need to answer to you at all.
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@Vietfox said:
RSB said:@Vietfox said:
RSB said:
@Vietfox said: RSB said:
@Vietfox said: Master said:
@Vietfox said: @RSB ;said:
@ThatOneGuy said: Sorry but killers should NOT be able to grab someone who has already started to “escape” through the hatch. It is total B.S. and unfair that something like that is even allowed to happen especially when the killer is camping the hatch. It is the last players last resort to escaping and you mean to tell me that the killer can stop them from even doing that! Sorry but that’s just another reason why this game sucks hard core and is in heavier favor of the killer than it is the survivor. Who ever thought that was a good idea can be fired plz and thank you. Don’t care what anyone else has to say I’m venting so leave me alone. Want to know what is unfair? When killer ######### earns his 4k, but the game decided to give a free win to the survivor, who did nothing but hiding all the game, or doing mere 2 gens. Thats shows how often you play as a survivor. If you played more as a survivor you'll know that there are many cases where the last survivor managed to do well, not hiding all the time or just doing 2 gens.
You want 4K? Slug the 3rd one and go kill the 4th one. Your complaints are as valid as OP's ones Usually in teamgames, the whole team loses when it does bad. Imgine for example in killing floor if the last guy alive could press a nuke button and magically win the game, that would be weird AF, do you agree? :wink: Never played that game so i can't really tell, but doesnt sound as the same situation because i understand that you meant there are 2 teams and last one from the losing team get to kill the other team by pressing that nuke button.
In dbd you get 3k even if the last survivor escapes, you don't die and 3K it's still a win for the killer. So, by your logic, killers should have one free kill at the end. What? 3 escaped, what's the problem? Unfair? Oh, how sweet.
That's why you got end-game perks like noed or rancor. Especially this last one, which gives you a free kill for not doing your job. Kek, you've destroyed yourself. You have perks to do gens, so why are you relying on hatch? Said perks gives you advantage for not doing your job. Use this - https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Left_Behind easy fix. That's why you got end-game perks, as you said. Oh, what? Only killers should use perks to help them on endgame, while survivors should be handed a free escapes, so they can keep their DS, BT, SC and SB? Sad. Oh, you mean that? I've explained it several times and yet you seem to ignore it.
Hatch is meant to provide a tense match till the very end. If there are 2 or 3 gens left and you are alone then you'll end up dead, even if you have LB.
I'll say it again, you can counter the hatch by slugging second last survivor, problem solved.
So why there is no "tense match", when killer gets his ass kicked? Hm? Why there should be a "tense match" ONLY when killer wins?
"just brick di ballet" - yeah, sure. How about I slug the third surv, and he DCs, to give his teammate a free win?
Why do you, survivor mains, DEMAND a free wins and second chances in this game? While us, 50/50 players and killer mains need to tryhard, because survs and the game throws everything at us? Map design, pallet design, perks design and this hatch - there is no such things for the killers, as second chances etc. Even their greatest perks are destroyable, while you can use SC, BT and SB many times, and no one will take it from you.
When I play Survivor with my SWF buddies we are totally goofing around and still winning. We can play on a map like in a sandbox, play with the killer, and still 3-4 of us escape. Got hit? "Yeah, I've got SC, will massage my ass and everything will be okay". I even refuse to use DS, because the couple of times I did, I felt like a dirty [BAD WORD]. When you play as a killer sometimes, you know how frustrating it is, and how unfair. Something you clearly do not understand. When biased survs dare to try killer for the first time in their lives, and go with him on mid-high ranks, they drastically change their opinon on how "killer is ez". Wonder why there are no killers who say "You know what? I've tried that surv, it is really hard, harder than playing killer".
If you do not see this, then I do not see an incentive to discuss with you either.
Tense match is a thing as long as the killer is able to kill. Maybe not when standing at the gate but this is a hatch thread after all.
Nice dodge.
The dc trick is rarely done, they need to be swfs, be in comms and find the hatch first so they can secure the escape.
Rarely? These days, when 70% of survivors are in SWF, in 100% of my matches the third surv DCs, when I slug him.
As i said once, you'd be surprised how often i play as a killer. Mainly to not get rusty on "how the killer things", learn from other survivors and stuff, so yeah, i can see killer's side by myself.
Playing killer on low ranks is not a good source of informations about current state of balance.
The difference between you and me is that you are way more emotional and get upset for things that i don't.
Of course, honey ;> Nown I'm literally hitting the keyboard with my head, while you are meditating on your bed, dressed in Shaolin monk's robes. Sure, that's how it is. Is it how you imagine me and you? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not angry, just tired of biased people.
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@jiminie said:
@BigBlackMori said:
@Amelia said:
@jiminie said:
@Delfador said:
@jiminie said:
'Camping and tunneling...strategies' oh my godWhy do you moan? According to devs they are strategies as well.
I was the one who wanted something that will decrease camping and tunneling in the game. I said that killers had no benefits if they let survivors escape and try to choose other targets. Here is what I have said.
I generally play survivor and tunneling is very frustrating for me. So when I play as a killer, I deliberately try to avoid tunneling but hooking different survivors rather than focusing on a single survivor and eliminating him from the match doesn't feel rewarding. Do you have any plan to reward killers who do not camp and tunnel?
Here is the link. 5th post is mine.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/15235/question-for-the-youtube-q-a/p1
You can go and watch what devs think about camping or tunneling. They think we should not force people to do something.
You have this clear evil killers who try to drain survivors' fun. Nope killers are generally not like that. They try to win and even though camping is not a great strategy, tunneling is the most efficient way for the killer to eliminate his targets. At the end of the day, every single player will try to play optimally.
You sure require massive amount of skill and you doing nuclear theory in your head to be efficient while straight up looking at the Survivor on the hook, i'll say it again, camping=no skill required or 'strategy', tunneling=again, it's really hard and resourceful action to do, following the just unhooked Survivor like a mindless sheep until you catch up to him, which is most likely instantly because camping/tunneling go hand in hand
Preach baby, preach !

But as long as it works, Killers are still gonna do it. And you know why it works?
Because Survivors allow it to by making bad plays. In no competitive scene in the history of ever has anyone who actually wanted to win not capitalize don their opponents' mistakes. So...too bad, so sad. Go reviewbomb the game til the devs give survivors invulnerability after being hooked or something. That always works.
Too bad i don't do that unlike you, and too bad this Hook invulnerability is goin' live, nice try
Living in a dream is a marvelous experience.
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@Vietfox said:
RSB said:@Vietfox said:
RSB said:
@Vietfox said: Master said:
@ThatOneGuy said: Sorry but killers should NOT be able to grab someone who has already started to “escape” through the hatch. It is total B.S. and unfair that something like that is even allowed to happen especially when the killer is camping the hatch. It is the last players last resort to escaping and you mean to tell me that the killer can stop them from even doing that! Sorry but that’s just another reason why this game sucks hard core and is in heavier favor of the killer than it is the survivor. Who ever thought that was a good idea can be fired plz and thank you. Don’t care what anyone else has to say I’m venting so leave me alone. Want to know what is unfair? When killer ######### earns his 4k, but the game decided to give a free win to the survivor, who did nothing but hiding all the game, or doing mere 2 gens. Thats shows how often you play as a survivor. If you played more as a survivor you'll know that there are many cases where the last survivor managed to do well, not hiding all the time or just doing 2 gens.
You want 4K? Slug the 3rd one and go kill the 4th one. Your complaints are as valid as OP's ones Usually in teamgames, the whole team loses when it does bad. Imgine for example in killing floor if the last guy alive could press a nuke button and magically win the game, that would be weird AF, do you agree?
Never played that game so i can't really tell, but doesnt sound as the same situation because i understand that you meant there are 2 teams and last one from the losing team get to kill the other team by pressing that nuke button.In dbd you get 3k even if the last survivor escapes, you don't die and 3K it's still a win for the killer. So, by your logic, killers should have one free kill at the end. What? 3 escaped, what's the problem? Unfair? Oh, how sweet.
That's why you got end-game perks like noed or rancor. Especially this last one, which gives you a free kill for not doing your job.
Kek, you've destroyed yourself.
You have perks to do gens, so why are you relying on hatch? Said perks gives you advantage for not doing your job. Use this - https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Left_Behind easy fix. That's why you got end-game perks, as you said.
Oh, what? Only killers should use perks to help them on endgame, while survivors should be handed a free escapes, so they can keep their DS, BT, SC and SB? Sad.
Oh, you mean that? I've explained it several times and yet you seem to ignore it.
Hatch is meant to provide a tense match till the very end. If there are 2 or 3 gens left and you are alone then you'll end up dead, even if you have LB.
I'll say it again, you can counter the hatch by slugging second last survivor, problem solved.So why there is no "tense match", when killer gets his ass kicked? Hm? Why there should be a "tense match" ONLY when killer wins?
"just brick di ballet" - yeah, sure. How about I slug the third surv, and he DCs, to give his teammate a free win?
Why do you, survivor mains, DEMAND a free wins and second chances in this game? While us, 50/50 players and killer mains need to tryhard, because survs and the game throws everything at us? Map design, pallet design, perks design and this hatch - there is no such things for the killers, as second chances etc. Even their greatest perks are destroyable, while you can use SC, BT and SB many times, and no one will take it from you.When I play Survivor with my SWF buddies we are totally goofing around and still winning. We can play on a map like in a sandbox, play with the killer, and still 3-4 of us escape. Got hit? "Yeah, I've got SC, will massage my ass and everything will be okay". I even refuse to use DS, because the couple of times I did, I felt like a dirty #########. When you play as a killer sometimes, you know how frustrating it is, and how unfair. Something you clearly do not understand. When biased survs dare to try killer for the first time in their lives, and go with him on mid-high ranks, they drastically change their opinon on how "killer is ez". Wonder why there are no killers who say "You know what? I've tried that surv, it is really hard, harder than playing killer".
If you do not see this, then I do not see an incentive to discuss with you either.
-
@Vietfox said:
RSB said:@Vietfox said:
Master said:
@Vietfox said: @RSB said:
@ThatOneGuy said: Sorry but killers should NOT be able to grab someone who has already started to “escape” through the hatch. It is total B.S. and unfair that something like that is even allowed to happen especially when the killer is camping the hatch. It is the last players last resort to escaping and you mean to tell me that the killer can stop them from even doing that! Sorry but that’s just another reason why this game sucks hard core and is in heavier favor of the killer than it is the survivor. Who ever thought that was a good idea can be fired plz and thank you. Don’t care what anyone else has to say I’m venting so leave me alone. Want to know what is unfair? When killer ######### earns his 4k, but the game decided to give a free win to the survivor, who did nothing but hiding all the game, or doing mere 2 gens. Thats shows how often you play as a survivor. If you played more as a survivor you'll know that there are many cases where the last survivor managed to do well, not hiding all the time or just doing 2 gens.
You want 4K? Slug the 3rd one and go kill the 4th one. Your complaints are as valid as OP's ones Usually in teamgames, the whole team loses when it does bad. Imgine for example in killing floor if the last guy alive could press a nuke button and magically win the game, that would be weird AF, do you agree? :wink: Never played that game so i can't really tell, but doesnt sound as the same situation because i understand that you meant there are 2 teams and last one from the losing team get to kill the other team by pressing that nuke button.
In dbd you get 3k even if the last survivor escapes, you don't die and 3K it's still a win for the killer.
So, by your logic, killers should have one free kill at the end. What? 3 escaped, what's the problem? Unfair? Oh, how sweet.
That's why you got end-game perks like noed or rancor. Especially this last one, which gives you a free kill for not doing your job.
Kek, you've destroyed yourself.
You have perks to do gens, so why are you relying on hatch? Said perks gives you advantage for not doing your job. Use this - https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Left_Behind easy fix. That's why you got end-game perks, as you said.
Oh, what? Only killers should use perks to help them on endgame, while survivors should be handed a free escapes, so they can keep their DS, BT, SC and SB? Sad.
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@Vietfox said:
Master said:@Vietfox said:
@ThatOneGuy said: Sorry but killers should NOT be able to grab someone who has already started to “escape” through the hatch. It is total B.S. and unfair that something like that is even allowed to happen especially when the killer is camping the hatch. It is the last players last resort to escaping and you mean to tell me that the killer can stop them from even doing that! Sorry but that’s just another reason why this game sucks hard core and is in heavier favor of the killer than it is the survivor. Who ever thought that was a good idea can be fired plz and thank you. Don’t care what anyone else has to say I’m venting so leave me alone. Want to know what is unfair? When killer ######### earns his 4k, but the game decided to give a free win to the survivor, who did nothing but hiding all the game, or doing mere 2 gens. Thats shows how often you play as a survivor. If you played more as a survivor you'll know that there are many cases where the last survivor managed to do well, not hiding all the time or just doing 2 gens.
You want 4K? Slug the 3rd one and go kill the 4th one.
Your complaints are as valid as OP's ones
Usually in teamgames, the whole team loses when it does bad.
Imgine for example in killing floor if the last guy alive could press a nuke button and magically win the game, that would be weird AF, do you agree?

Never played that game so i can't really tell, but doesnt sound as the same situation because i understand that you meant there are 2 teams and last one from the losing team get to kill the other team by pressing that nuke button.
In dbd you get 3k even if the last survivor escapes, you don't die and 3K it's still a win for the killer.So, by your logic, killers should have one free kill at the end. What? 3 escaped, what's the problem? Unfair? Oh, how sweet.
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@Rattman said:
You can attach video here, y'know?But he is talking about that one quote, not the whole video.
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@Soren said:
@jamesdon18 said:
You can also get hardware banned for being good in this game and looping people for whole games remember that lol.That's actually not true at all. Looping is not bannable.
If you're talking about Ochido, he was banned for:
- exploit (several times) and showing how to use these exploits,
- griefing (sandbag on purpose other survivors, ruining their game experience by coop with the killer),
- witch hunting (asking his community to mass-report a killer he played against),
- trying to avoid ban with several accounts,
- hacking his progress (as an example, he had a P3-50 Clown at rank 1 the day after the release of Clown, which was rank reset, and with XP still at level 1... literally impossible without hack).
And for being a damn pedophile degenerate.
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@ThatOneGuy said:
Sorry but killers should NOT be able to grab someone who has already started to “escape” through the hatch. It is total B.S. and unfair that something like that is even allowed to happen especially when the killer is camping the hatch. It is the last players last resort to escaping and you mean to tell me that the killer can stop them from even doing that! Sorry but that’s just another reason why this game sucks hard core and is in heavier favor of the killer than it is the survivor. Who ever thought that was a good idea can be fired plz and thank you. Don’t care what anyone else has to say I’m venting so leave me alone.Want to know what is unfair? When killer ######### earns his 4k, but the game decided to give a free win to the survivor, who did nothing but hiding all the game, or doing mere 2 gens.
I don't see a "free kill" button, when 4 survivors are about to escape.
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@powerbats said:
You're obviously not worth debating over this, Marth went in with a predetermined outcome in mind. I could post my documentation yet you'd still deny it and say I made it up.Also nice Straw Man there saying I'm asking the devs to remove a skin from the game.Since others in this thread have commented on Laurie having issues more than others I guess that means they also want Laurie or her skin but not all her skins removed from the game. Now do you realize the foolishness of your statement?
Oh and I didn't realize that videos weighed tons, or that now that you agree with something eh says his words mean something. Yet when a streamer evena popular one says something you don't like it's oh they're just a streamer or that's just 1 persons opinions etc.
So the question becomes do a steamers words matter or not, just so from this point onward there's no saying something different.
And I'm not worth debating over this? Look at your post.
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@SovererignKing said:
RSB said:@SovererignKing said:
RSB said:
@KiraElijah said: RSB said:
"Just break the pallet", and my favourite "Killers can pallet loop too".
XD how can killers pallet loop Ask the guy, who was claiming it on Steam forum. He was a big survivor main, and a wannabe streamer. That's okay, good, but he was biased as hell. Defending exploits, always irrational. He even said "that killers can pallet loop too", and then that "it is so ez to be a killer, only survivor is hard in this game" (he did not even reach R10 with the killer). Someone challanged him to reach R1 with the killer, then maybe someone will treat his "opinions" more serious. He accepted. A week later, a month, a couple of months... He just disappeared XD PS. He, of course, claimed to be R1 killer, but before he closed his Steam account to publicity, I've managed to take a couple of SSs of him not having even R10 on the killer, and pointed out his lies. And there were many lies from his mouth. Then, ashamed, he accepted the challange.
PaladinGoo? Yeah, he changed his tune after he actually started playing a lot of Killer. He’s pretty chill now after he got a dose of reality. Even subbed to Tru3Ta1ent and everything.
I did not see any posts from him - on Steam forums nor here. What happend to him?
PS. it is amusing how die-hard survivor mains start playing killer, and have their opinion turned by 180 degrees.
He dropped off the map after he got a reality check. He doesn’t post or anything anymore. Think he moved on to a different game.
Oh, glad to hear that, one less person of his kind.
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@powerbats said:
@Orion said:
@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
As the title says people that play ehr seem to have this need to either quit the lobby at 6 seconds thereby locking 3 people into getting screwed. They also seem to at an abnormally high rate rage quit the instant they get downed or find out the killer. There's also certain players who seem to do this with regularity and if I know them in my lobby I warn everyone else and dodge."That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
That which can be asserted by documented evidence may not be dismissed a being without evidence. As you'd know if you'd read the earlier posts before yours. I had a running log just to track dc's that happened the moment the killer downed someone.
Which is why i said Laurie's had a 10x higher rate of dcing compared to other toons. That was just over 100 games tracked. I'm tracking all my games both sides now with screenshots for better data collection.
Through 15 games survivor side it's 1 Laurie and 1 Jake. i'm also tracking maps and killers for a breakdown to see if there's correlation by map/killer/other survivor choices. This is at ranks 1-3 currently.
I wish this logic applied to marth's experiment, or any player's experiences that you always dismiss in favor of what you already believe.
Documentation versus a person going for a predetermined outcome and using controls to ferret out personal bias. Since I had documentation of 100+ games and not any personal bias used. When you or someone else on here claims most or all your games are 4 man swf games with 4 dds/fl/sc/sb you're own biases are there.
No, you have only words. "Hey guys, I have proofs, I swear! Got documentation! But I won't show it, because... Uhhh... REASONS". How can we believe you? Your favourite sentence - "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." applies to you.
While you have only words, Marth has tons of footage, tons of evidence, tons of other things to prove his, and our, points, and still you reject his IRREFUTABLE evidences. Hypocrisy, sorry to tell you that, but you are a hypocrite.
PS. Asking the devs to remove a skin from the game is just... Bizzare.
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@SovererignKing said:
RSB said:@KiraElijah said:
RSB said:
"Just break the pallet", and my favourite "Killers can pallet loop too".
XD how can killers pallet loop
Ask the guy, who was claiming it on Steam forum.
He was a big survivor main, and a wannabe streamer. That's okay, good, but he was biased as hell. Defending exploits, always irrational. He even said "that killers can pallet loop too", and then that "it is so ez to be a killer, only survivor is hard in this game" (he did not even reach R10 with the killer).
Someone challanged him to reach R1 with the killer, then maybe someone will treat his "opinions" more serious. He accepted.
A week later, a month, a couple of months... He just disappeared XD
PS. He, of course, claimed to be R1 killer, but before he closed his Steam account to publicity, I've managed to take a couple of SSs of him not having even R10 on the killer, and pointed out his lies. And there were many lies from his mouth. Then, ashamed, he accepted the challange.
PaladinGoo? Yeah, he changed his tune after he actually started playing a lot of Killer. He’s pretty chill now after he got a dose of reality. Even subbed to Tru3Ta1ent and everything.
I did not see any posts from him - on Steam forums nor here. What happend to him?
PS. it is amusing how die-hard survivor mains start playing killer, and have their opinion turned by 180 degrees. -
@Orion said:
@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
As the title says people that play ehr seem to have this need to either quit the lobby at 6 seconds thereby locking 3 people into getting screwed. They also seem to at an abnormally high rate rage quit the instant they get downed or find out the killer. There's also certain players who seem to do this with regularity and if I know them in my lobby I warn everyone else and dodge."That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
That which can be asserted by documented evidence may not be dismissed a being without evidence. As you'd know if you'd read the earlier posts before yours. I had a running log just to track dc's that happened the moment the killer downed someone.
Which is why i said Laurie's had a 10x higher rate of dcing compared to other toons. That was just over 100 games tracked. I'm tracking all my games both sides now with screenshots for better data collection.
Through 15 games survivor side it's 1 Laurie and 1 Jake. i'm also tracking maps and killers for a breakdown to see if there's correlation by map/killer/other survivor choices. This is at ranks 1-3 currently.
I wish this logic applied to marth's experiment, or any player's experiences that you always dismiss in favor of what you already believe.
"B-b-but no one plays like Marth... >ERROR< >ERROR<" - yep, no one is playing like Marth - perkless. Survivors play like Marth, but with perks.
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@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
@powerbats said:
As the title says people that play ehr seem to have this need to either quit the lobby at 6 seconds thereby locking 3 people into getting screwed. They also seem to at an abnormally high rate rage quit the instant they get downed or find out the killer. There's also certain players who seem to do this with regularity and if I know them in my lobby I warn everyone else and dodge."That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
That which can be asserted by documented evidence may not be dismissed a being without evidence. As you'd know if you'd read the earlier posts before yours. I had a running log just to track dc's that happened the moment the killer downed someone.
Which is why i said Laurie's had a 10x higher rate of dcing compared to other toons. That was just over 100 games tracked. I'm tracking all my games both sides now with screenshots for better data collection.
Through 15 games survivor side it's 1 Laurie and 1 Jake. i'm also tracking maps and killers for a breakdown to see if there's correlation by map/killer/other survivor choices. This is at ranks 1-3 currently.
"I saw it. I swear" is not a great evidence. Give us statistics.
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Missing maps? Also please, no more swamp...
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We need a Russian Dovakhiin, I feel empty without him.
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Hi, everyone ;>
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Oh yeah. From the left - Trapper, Billy, Doctor and Freddy.
WE NEED IT DEVS
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@powerbats said:
As the title says people that play ehr seem to have this need to either quit the lobby at 6 seconds thereby locking 3 people into getting screwed. They also seem to at an abnormally high rate rage quit the instant they get downed or find out the killer. There's also certain players who seem to do this with regularity and if I know them in my lobby I warn everyone else and dodge."That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
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Did you have NC before buying it from the shrine? also how much BP you had before buying said perk?
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@KiraElijah said:
RSB said:@KiraElijah said:
RSB said:
"Just break the pallet", and my favourite "Killers can pallet loop too".
XD how can killers pallet loop
Ask the guy, who was claiming it on Steam forum.
He was a big survivor main, and a wannabe streamer. That's okay, good, but he was biased as hell. Defending exploits, always irrational. He even said "that killers can pallet loop too", and then that "it is so ez to be a killer, only survivor is hard in this game" (he did not even reach R10 with the killer).
Someone challanged him to reach R1 with the killer, then maybe someone will treat his "opinions" more serious. He accepted.
A week later, a month, a couple of months... He just disappeared XD
But if we could drop pallets we could achieve balance XD
Poor survivors getting pallet looped by killers ;<
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@KiraElijah said:
RSB said:"Just break the pallet", and my favourite "Killers can pallet loop too".
XD how can killers pallet loop
Ask the guy, who was claiming it on Steam forum.
He was a big survivor main, and a wannabe streamer. That's okay, good, but he was biased as hell. Defending exploits, always irrational. He even said "that killers can pallet loop too", and then that "it is so ez to be a killer, only survivor is hard in this game" (he did not even reach R10 with the killer).Someone challanged him to reach R1 with the killer, then maybe someone will treat his "opinions" more serious. He accepted.
A week later, a month, a couple of months... He just disappeared XD
PS. He, of course, claimed to be R1 killer, but before he closed his Steam account to publicity, I've managed to take a couple of SSs of him not having even R10 on the killer, and pointed out his lies. And there were many lies from his mouth. Then, ashamed, he accepted the challange.
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"Just break the pallet", and my favourite "Killers can pallet loop too".
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@Global said:
stealth = a nurses calling, bbq, bitter murmurNC - do not be stupid and heal near the killer
BBQ - really? I'v been playing stealthy versus a Doc with BBQ, done last 2 gens and escaped via hatch... Survivors claiming Stealth is not working are just unskilled.
Bitter Murmur - don't do gens lol. Jokes aside - same with BBQ. And when the killer is in chase Bitter Murmur is useless for him.toxic = actually surviving
If BM'ing, insulting, sandbagging etc. are the way to "survive", then I'm really sorry.
Stealth isnt a good option in this game

As to the @MoodyFoodie - play stealthy, you will be in the minority of skilled survivors in this game, and you will earn some respect from the killers. Remember, even if the killer finds you, there are big chances he will just let you escape, as the last person, because you were good, or at least do not camp, because you didn't act like a spoiled child.
PS. "NO STEALTH BUILDZ, NOT WURGINK IN DIS GAIM" - UE, DwM, Lithe, IW/SC - and you have a very strong juke/stealth build. It will just rekt the new killer.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@meshugganah said:
Mycroft said:@Vankruze said:
Fake news, it gets released for every pc user at the same time. Australia may be 16 hours ahead in most cases but that doesn't change when devs decide to go live.
Didn't the pig get released on console first?
yes, by a day or two. the pc users were turning themselves inside out. how quickly they forgot such when us console users agonized over the clown.Nobody was turning themselves inside out over it, lmao.
This is something console players made up to make PC Users seem awful.I've seen this being said for a few months now and not one person has been able to show a single screenshot, clip or thread of PC users being angry over it, continue to perpetuate your lies, I'm sure it'll make you feel better one day.
I agree on this. Nobody (maybe except for some individuals) were crying over this. This is just a lie... We should not spread the community even more - on PC users and console users.
Is it fair to release content first for the PC, and then for consoles? Nope, as well as releasing this first on consoles, then on PC. This is a thing we can't change, because platform as Steam, Sony and Xbox have different policies due to releasing content, so when on Steam, let's say, you just upload an update on the servers, then Steam checks: "Hm, looks okay. Accepted", on consoles it may take days, months more and vice versa.
We should not blame the devs, nor other users for it, because it will take us nowhere.
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@Mycroft said:
@RSB said:
@Mycroft said:
@RSB said:
@Mycroft said:
This is what we point to when we talk about survivors and their toxicity. Anyone can look at this incident where people realizing who was in their game PREMEDITATED,LY decided to screw with him and go yeah that's kinda messed up but not survivor mains. Nothing is too far for them. They will excuse anything.Perfect example of this filthy ass 'community'
BuT BOtH SideS ARE eQuaLly TOXiC
Exactly, both sides do it.
Then the hashtag brigade can scamper out here and go #NotAllSurvivors
They should lead a campaign promoting a view of a non-toxic survivor. Then blame killers for everything. #SurvivorsLivesMatters #MeNot
lol
Too many letters in a row for the average survivor. They'd get lost and need a rainbow map that far into vocabulary.
Probably this.
Their brains barely can handle such complicated sentences like "git gut noob ", "#########", "######### yuo killah" and "KILLAZ WUNTZ 4K EVRITIM". And every update - "nurf killaz, we wuz nerfed".
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@Mycroft said:
@RSB said:
@Mycroft said:
This is what we point to when we talk about survivors and their toxicity. Anyone can look at this incident where people realizing who was in their game PREMEDITATED,LY decided to screw with him and go yeah that's kinda messed up but not survivor mains. Nothing is too far for them. They will excuse anything.Perfect example of this filthy ass 'community'
BuT BOtH SideS ARE eQuaLly TOXiC
Exactly, both sides do it.
Then the hashtag brigade can scamper out here and go #NotAllSurvivors
They should lead a campaign promoting a view of a non-toxic survivor. Then blame killers for everything. #SurvivorsLivesMatters #MeNot
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@Mycroft said:
This is what we point to when we talk about survivors and their toxicity. Anyone can look at this incident where people realizing who was in their game PREMEDITATED,LY decided to screw with him and go yeah that's kinda messed up but not survivor mains. Nothing is too far for them. They will excuse anything.Perfect example of this filthy ass 'community'
BuT BOtH SideS ARE eQuaLly TOXiC
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@Kenshin said:
tru3 started a disgusting witch hunt with that only because his big ego got hurt. this ppl are getting harassed and insulted like crazy now, hell i even saw death threats against them. this guys did a terrible thing and should be punished for it (but tru3 didnt report them ingame what was a mistake) and tru3 also needs to get a punishment for making this guys a public target and even making a video about it. at this point he isnt better than ochido.They earned it. He did not started a "witch hunt", he pointed out a serious issue among the survivors - the toxicity.
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Today I had the same thing. One game survs were running around my first hook like a bunch of #########, baiting me and BMing, so I killed them all, when they were trying to rescue the first guy. At the post game chat I got called a "#########", "camper" and they bothered to insult me on my Steam profile as well.
After a couple of matches later, I got parred with them in the match (I was a survivor too). Let's say it was not a pleasant game.
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@Vankruze said:
Keep in mind Australia is about 16 hours ahead of some parts of USA and Europe.It is only 8 hours ahead of the central Europe. Patches, if I remember correctly, come out between 7 - 9PM at +2 timezone. So if they, in Australia, have the new DLC for 1-2 hours, it would be correct to say, that today, at 7-9 PM we will have the new DLC released (at +2 timezone).
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@foxofthestars said:
RSB said:Better not. Dbd itself may not ban you, but Steam actually can, because it is changing region to gain access to lower prices/more products, and this is violating EULA.
Thank you for the reply! My a** will be waiting like everyone else then! Lol
No problem ;> Hm, if they have the DLC no, maybe the killer will come out even today?
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Better not. Dbd itself may not ban you, but Steam actually can, because it is changing region to gain access to lower prices/more products, and this is violating EULA.
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Yeah, that's how I've remembered it. So, logically thinking, the DLC MAY come out tomorrow, and the consoles MAY have the update delayed.
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@Orion said:
@RSB said:
@Orion said:
@RSB said:
@Orion said:
@RSB said:
@CoolAKn said:
@RSB said:
@Unit said:
RSB said:@Unit said:
RSB said:
@Unit said: RSB said:
@Unit said: RSB said:
But, uh... Doc isn't black, I guess? CoolAKn said: @RSB said: @CoolAKn said: @RSB said: But, uh... Doc isn't black, I guess? Yeah, he doesn't really look black, maybe he could be bi-racial? Maybe, but he looks more like a white/asian not white/black nor asian/black. True, a lot of the Doctor's in-game files point to the fact the Doctor was originally going to be Chinese (to coincide with Min), not sure why they changed that.
Check out the official wiki I was shocked when I found out too Nah, someone made a mistake, obviously. Even his WIP name is Chinese.
Why are you hellbent on him not being African American Because I'm racist. Is it what you would like to hear? Seriously, because he is not. With same logic you could argue, that Spirit is not Japanese, but black. WHAT. ARE YOU RACIST?
You are forgetting something sir, the words Work In Progress. They probably planned for him to be more Chinese based but changed it last minute for some unknown reason. Maybe the felt the acknowledgment on his teeth would be seen as a racist stereotype for Asians so he black now.
Where do you see he is black?
There doesn't have to be evidence, hell you can barely tell the Wraith was African. A character can have inspiration but that doesn't make the character.
That is not an answer.
Wraith can be black (although at frist I thought he is Mexican), but Ojomo is a popular African surname. Also his tribal skin with candle on the head is quite African, and you can see that his skin is black.
If we are speaking about the Doc, he is based on a Chinese urban legend, or something familiar, and his WIP name is Chinese. His face looks somehow Chinese too. We have more proofs, that he is Chinese-American, instead of black. Why are you so hellbent on him being an African-American?
It's just a matter of "the official wiki said..." which can be changed, you know. The Doctor's "official" bio (in-game) mentions nothing of his race, so for all we know, the wiki could be lying.
Yep, that's what I'm trying to say. Wiki can be at fault, no info in game, we can only speculate. However, there are more proofs that he is Chinese-American, though, do not why some people are trying hard to make him black.
His facial features - the wide, flat nose with large nostrils, for example - scream "African". Furthermore, while the devs did intend for him to be Chinese, they were worried China would ban the game, since he's based on a real Chinese murderer who, I believe, is still alive, and China has censorship laws that would prohibit that.
There are no proofs for him being Chinese-American, at all. None of the Killers match the Survivors that came with them. That's just your faulty premise.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/euJHz-PcK5s/maxresdefault.jpg
This nose? Look at the nose of the Doc, and the woman above. See?
Where did I say, that killers match the survivors? Do not put the words into my mouth, really.His is much wider.
She is a woman, so she has a smaller nose as well. If you want I can search for a wider, Chinese male nose.
You didn't, but you seemed to agree with someone who did. I will say that only one Killer in all of DbD has matched the Survivor, and that was the Shape - because he's a licensed character. Original Killers never match the Survivors, so to make him Chinese would be unprecedented.
Nurse and Nea quite match. She did burned the asylum, where Nurse used to work, I believe.
Did you read what I said about the devs changing his ethnicity to skirt around Chinese censorship laws?
Yes, I did. Was it proven by the devs, or was it just a gossip? Also - did they said, they are making him black, instead of yellow? Or maybe he is white?
Go ahead and search.
https://media.allure.com/photos/5a13252594953253aa194624/master/pass/jesa-nose-job-before-after.jpg - female
http://susers.thatsmyface.com/v/vipbignose/Vip_Big_Nose_front_HBmIn2bhqJ.facecrop_d5398580.jpg - maleNea is Swedish or something, right? She and the Nurse don't come from the same place. That's what I was going for when I said they "didn't match".
Nea moved to USa from Sweden. Also - "She may have gone too far when her friends, not thinking well, dared her to tag the old asylum. " - she tagged (not burned, my bad) Nurse's asylum.
It was speculation
"speculation" - the key word
by the Chinese players who begged the devs not to make the new Killer (now the Doctor) Chinese because the game would be banned in China. This was back when the Doctor was a WIP, as you pointed out. I hope that a Chinese person's knowledge of Chinese censorship laws is enough to dissuade your bizarre belief that the Doctor is Chinese.
He still can be Chinese. And I've claimed that he is not black, but can be white/yellow, not only "Chinese". I said "Maybe, but he looks more like a white/asian not white/black nor asian/black." - there are less proofs, that he is black, as you said, than he is Chinese - American.
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I would like it to be tomorrow, though, but I don't have much hope for it - date is not proven. As to the Sony updates - wasn't Clown released looong after the PC got him?
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@powerbats said:
@RSB said:
With that logic killer should not lose his items, when he wins, it would be fair (survivors don't lose them, when they win) but oh, it does not works that way.
They should be able to keep offerings but there needs to be a restriction on what they can keep but also based upon performance. If they do nothing but afk camp then no or camp 1st hooked person like some. So no saving Ultra raes like Mori's or the super ultra rares like hatchets, carters etc.
So if say they bring in a purple quality addon and a green quality addon and get 4k plus good performance say gold across board. They keep both addons but offering is still consumed. Now lets say they get 4k but damage no gens and get nothing in the other 3 categories. Well they keep only the green addon then.
Both sides should get something based upon performance but they need to rework the emblem system to figure in the changes for both sides.
I can agree with it. Made a thread about similar thing - https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/18747/addons-and-items#latest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcddAJXoa4