Prometheus1092
Prometheus1092
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916673#Comment_3916673
I'm actually wondering this exact thing. So if they all DC, even if they're only slugged or on the ground (not dead technically), and then I abandon since they're all gone, it still gives me the "4k"? So technically raising my mmr.
Not sure if it works when killer surrenders when all are bots because technically the killer can still lose and I think the game basically plays out but with bots. But I'm fairly sure killer surrender after 10min of no gens being done does count as 4k as killer can't really lose and it's not a bot match.
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@Malkhrim said:
"Surrender" is not a win for the killer, and doing all gens takes way less than the 10-minutes needed for a surrender, so I really don't think the surrender mechanic makes any difference in this scenario.
I believe surrender option for killer is actually a win for killer as it counts all survivors as dead and can even count towards adept
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915880#Comment_3915880
„They want to focus the game on chases then just people hiding“
So why are they making maps where you can‘t loop and have to hide, because all the loops are either burned after a short time, super bad or don‘t exist at all?!
It doesn‘t make sense to make hiding super bad and making the other playstile super bad as well.
Because people seem to think chase means loop but it's doesn't. It is possible to be chased across the map through multiple locations, lose line of sight. While people think hiding isn't fun some people think circling the same pallet for ages isn't fun either. As both survivor and killer I can honestly say certain loops are incredibly boring, like the shack. Either killer follows through the chase and endures the boring circle or they end chase knowing it's not worth the time which isn't fun for killer or survivor that enjoys chases.
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I would love to see mmr and love to know how they work it out. The only reason I think I might be in high MMR is due to the frequency of swf I get (sometimes the same team repeatedly) but also the amount of wins I get. I literally went on a 50+ match win streak couple months ago with every match getting at least 3k but a lot of 4k. If I'm not in high MMR then it begs the question why so many swf and what does it take to get to high MMR if long win streaks and very few losses don't do it?
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888164#Comment_3888164
Why is it that killers are the only ones who have rules for how they have to play but when killers talk about gen rushing and other things that are a problem, there is almost never any action taken? Im sure you are aware of the constant conversations around SWFs and how much they break the game, but patch after patch we dont ever see them get weaker, in fact its just the opposite. SWFs get even stronger perks to abuse over time.
Exactly this. Swf use coms (which isn't part of the game or solo would have it too). The use of coms in particular can mean the match is over before it's began for stealth killers as survivors use coms as a sort of aura reading so everyone knows where the killer is. This is without the synergy of perks that can be strong in solo but very op with swf.
Killers get buffs to deal with swf and soloq suffer. Killers get nerfed so solo can deal with killers and swf get stronger. Works same with survivor buffs and nerfs. If swf is the baseline for survivor then make solo the same, give coms and full aura reading then buff the killers to be able to handle that without tunneling. If solo is baseline then swf needs to be weakened to bring it in line with solo. Clearly can't really monitor the coms but they can monitor the fact they are party together so that could be used somehow to apply a nerf? i don't know what can be done but swf with coms and perk synergy is crazy, they can be useless skill wise but still use these advantages to get a win but killer gets the "don't tunnel" treatment.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915588#Comment_3915588
Ok, so my main point is that killers have tools that are easy for them to execute and are difficult for survivors to counter. That applies mainly to camping, tunneling, and slugging in this conversation. But since we're talking about boosting MMR, it also applies to metas (gen kick, 3 gen meta), or even bugs or unbalanced effects (merciless storm, or giga thrill).
Here's the thing, and you say it yourself:
After repeatedly losing to swf teams I started tunneling.
Even setting aside this assumption that the "evil SWF" is suddenly in every game, I need to point out:
You are literally saying you switched tactics because you wanted to win more
Winning became more important than having a fun game. Instead of accepting that more casual gameplay and the occasional loss that comes with that, you decided to sweat because winning became the most important thing.
Now your saying I shouldn't be on that MMR bracket and that this MMR bracket shouldn't need tunneling to win.
I'm saying that there is no universe where complaining that you have to tunnel is valid. There are only two options here:
If you don't want to play casually (ie, not competitively), then you can accept losing the occasional game. You can play however you want, accept the occasional loss, and kill about 60% of the survivors you face. This won't inflate your MMR either.
However, if you want to play competitively, then there's no valid reason to complain about your opponent also playing competitively. This is basically just saying that "I want to try as hard as possible to win, but it's not fair that my opponent is also trying". By the way, playing this way will also result in you killing about 60% of the survivors you face.
If I didn't tunnel when I did I would be dropped in MMR bracket.
Yes, that's what "boosting your MMR" means.
So that says tunneling is needed to beat swf.
No.
This is the wrong conclusion for a couple reasons. First is that being in a SWF doesn't mean they're automatically better players. There are casual SWF groups, and there are hyper competitive solo q players. Just because you have a hard game, does not mean they are SWF.
It's an even harder pill for most people to swallow: you aren't the best player in the entire game. There are players, SWF or not, who are simply better at the game than you are.
Struggling does not mean you're at the maximum the game has to offer, it means you're at the maximum you can handle as a player. You've hit the cap of where you can perform without significant improvement, and that's ok. Some people struggle and claim they're "Max MMR" and complain about not understanding literal fundamentals of the game.
You are beating SWF at your skill level, and likely steamrolling them so you don't even consider it.
Firstly I didn't tunnel because I wanted to win more, I tunneled so I could win as I definitely wasn't hitting 60% kill rate, it was more like 10%. No game was winnable for a long time until I tunneled. Casual or comp swf made no difference, the coms give the teams an edge that no solo player gets so it makes sense they are in higher MMR but that's not a reflection of skill that's using things outside the game (coms) to have a major edge over the killer and inflate their mmr. If these swf teams went solo they wouldnt win anywhere near as much so by your logic they shouldn't be in the higher MMR bracket because they can't beat killers in the same bracket solo.
You also say winning became more important than fun, which again is incorrect. Losing the amount I was without tunneling wasn't fun. I tunneled and started winning, that was fun. But you suggest it's a choice of winning or having which isn't the case.
Fact is tunneling isnt fool proof, swf can and have countered it. So by your own argument of raising MMR to a skill level they shouldn't be at, if survivors can't counter tunneling then they shouldn't be in that bracket they have used swf and coms to be in a bracket they can't handle without being in a team. You can't use that argument of using a tactic like tunneling to raise MMR and not apply it to swf teams that can't hack it without coms.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914481#Comment_3914481
There's certainly a possibility of that.
Killers who heavily rely on those strategies have boosted their MMR above their actual skill level. Many of these players say things like "you have to tunnel to win" and "gens fly", and many times the reason for that is because the survivors they face are more efficient than they are. It's just that the killer has massively powerful tools available that tip the scale.
So yes, those players will lose games for a while as their MMR actually balances it to closer to their skill level, when and if those overpowered tools are toned down. Then, once they're playing against opponents closer to their actual skill level, they should be able to maintain the 60% again.
your saying killers that rely heavily on tunneling have artificially raised MMR to ranks where they don't belong but that makes no sense from my experience. I got my MMR to the ranks that I'm constantly getting swf and I didn't tunnel at all. After repeatedly losing to swf teams I started tunneling. Now your saying I shouldn't be on that MMR bracket and that this MMR bracket shouldn't need tunneling to win. Both of which are incorrect. If I didn't tunnel when I did I would be dropped in MMR bracket. So that says tunneling is needed to beat swf.
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It's well known swf is op... Just tunnel and play dirty
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Before the surrender option I was survivor v blight on Hawkins. They stood on hatch and refused to move and I couldn't get through. So I had to go do 4 gens on my own. That was before the surrender option, so I don't think the flaw has anything to do with killer surrender.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
From my experience its several things that could cause them to give up.
- they see the killer has no problem with tunneling right off hooks and they don't want to bother trying when the killer just wants to win at all costs.
- Its myers and he brought an indoor map for a 45 minute poke and hide match and they either don't have time for it or find it extremely annoying.
- A killer theyve seen for the 4th time in a row and theyd rather see who they get for the next round.
- They had a challenge for something, maybe red emblems and since they got found first and downed there goes one of their red emblems so they are alredy fed up with trying for (2 red emblems in 1 match) and decide to get a fresh start on the next round.
- A killer they really don't like or associated them with hard tunneling in every round theyve ever seen them (like wesker)
- Some people even hate specific maps enough to quit sometimes
- They may have been sandbagged by a teammate and their way of getting back at them is throwing the round.
- They don't like the way they got hit, like for example how ghostface often ends up marking you weather you are staring right at him or not and then hits you through a pallet or something.
- They just decided they aren't enjoying the game anymore and leave to go play something else.
- They are being targetted by the killer and don't enjoy being tunneled or harassed so they just leave with what they have.
So pretty much anything they don't like... If they don't get what they want they throw a tantrum and give up. If the anti go next thing works it will be a real game changer, just need to up the DC penalty to make sure people don't repeatedly DC.
Fair enough if people are not having fun but the answer is simply don't play, not repeatedly play match after match and give up match after match.
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I mentioned this a while ago. I find particularly as survivor if my team mates don't bring items they are either doing challenges or will go next instantly or won't really try to escape. It's rarely a good sign when people don't bring anything at all, not even a brown item.
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@xCakeStick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912872#Comment_3912872
I'm sorry but why should the killer have to bring a sac ward all the time to make sure the game decides the map that's chosen? Killers want to be bringing blood point offerings, not sac wards just cause people want to go to a map in favour of them
I agree, as killer I used to bring sac ward (my 1 and only offering slot) to counter the azarovs offering that I was seeing almost every match. Weirdly even with the sac ward it would still throw autohaven at me lol. So much I was starting to question if sac wards even work at all. So I started using my own offerings. When survivors saw my offerings they would DC in loading screen over and over because they didn't bring sac ward, they wanted their map and they are not prepared to leave it to chance.
It's still happening now, mostly in the main mode, not so much in the event. Nearly 10min q time to have survivors DC in loading screen...I wait another 7 or 8 min q....same thing happens. So I went back to the event where I could actually get a match. It's just crazy that these teams do this, synergy in all 4 offerings to give them the edge. (And they wonder why I play dirty and tunnel, camp, slug whatever I need to do to win)
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@justadreampallet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912867#Comment_3912867
I swear Mr. Prometheus you should rename yourself Mr. Tombstone.
also yea the haste perk will be abused by SWF it is unfortunate. It would be cool if perks were nerfed for SWF teams so they don’t nerf great Solo perks to balence itI been doing scratch mirror during the event 😊 big bp bonus and partly because I ran out of tombstones lol. Got about 300 now tho, stocking up on them for after the event.
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His whereabouts is currently unknown...
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912805#Comment_3912805
Oh…so the map variants nerf didn't happen thanks for confirming. Cause when I played last week both killer and survivor was brining maps and getting them 100% so am like ok back to sac wards as it seem they didn't do the nerf lol.
You will know when the map offering update is here because the map offering will be hidden in the loading screen. Looking forward to actually having a match instead of people DC in loading screen because they can't be bothered to bring sac wards.
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@HeroLives said:
while I’m on PlayStation and can’t participate, I was watching some gameplay of the ptb.
The healing perk speed should be boosted a little bit
The haste perk, I would add an upon unhook condition to it because I just see it being way too good against m1’s up against a coordinated 4man. That’s a generous haste boost, but I can see it getting nerfed to the ground without any breaks because of coordinated body blocks being abused mixed with healing.
Idk if other people feel like I do, these are just my thoughts.
While I agree the haste perk is op regarding swf and is likely to be nerfed to prevent abuse of the perk, I don't think we need any more perks to activate through hooks. Doing so would just further push the slugging thing so there would be no end of complaints. The perk definitely makes me happy I mained Myers tho, not much good against a tombstone 😁
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It's impossible to play scratch Myers on that map. Too slow to chase, no where to hide, can't use aura reading ability because it's all flat open terrain. I would imagine it might be good for a speedy killer but any average speed or slow moving killer is going to struggle.
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I always have light born regardless if there are flashlights in the lobby or not as I never know if they have flash bangs. I do enjoy pretending I'm a avoiding the light so they keep trying to save instead of doing gens.
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It's perfect for me, RPD is one of my best maps for tombstone Myers. Couple months ago I blew through over 120 RPD offerings in a few days (had a collection for a while). It's pretty funny when survivors think they are countering a ghoul but actually dooming themselves to a tombstone Myers when they bring RPD.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911041#Comment_3911041
So, tunnelling has a definition and it's not just chasing the same survivor twice. If you're effectively "tunnelling" someone who is our of position, a weak link, or otherwise has made themselves an easier target of chase even if you already hit them (like healing under a hook or making a mistake by doing gens injured), you are not tunnelling them.
Tunnelling is when you focus the same Survivor repeatedly for no reason, to the exclusion of anyone else because you CAN, not because there is a tactical reason to do it. Guarding hooks, pressuring gens, and attacking the weak link are all tactical and effective ways to "tunnel" but they aren't really tunnelling.
The tunneling I think BHVR wants to address is the kind where Killers hard focus someone to grief them out of the game early on, on purpose. Not tactical uses like going back to a hook to check on it (and find Survs), hitting someone out of position they already hit, dropping then continuing a chase as a play, or forcing a Survivor to do nothing but take chase. I do agree this fix, like the AFC, will not address what some people mistake tunnelling to be. Probably because it's not actual tunnelling.Exactly, I'm not sure how they intend to work out the difference if a killer is tunneling the same person because they are the weak link or if it's purely to grief the survivor. I know tunneling will always remain a tactic. They can't give basekit endurance any more than they currently have or basekit DS as these could and definitely would be used aggressively to grief the killer. They can't give penalty to hooking same survivor twice in a row because it could have a detrimental impact on the tactic being used legitimately and again this penalty could be used aggressivly by survivors trying make the killer take a penalty. I think the most likely case is they will bring out a new anti tunnel perk, or possibly buff a current one which survivors won't be happy being "forced" to use a perk to counter it.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911027#Comment_3911027
As long as you're doing this within the boundaries BHVR has put up, you shouldn't have to listen to what anyone has to say.
And here's where the issue lies. As I've been saying, there's a time to tunnel, but most Killers have been pushing beyond those boundaries so much that BHVR has had to step in to tone it down some, with plans to do a bit more in the second phase of the Quality of Life Initiative. What exactly they're planning to do is unknown as of right now.
Honestly can't wait for anti tunnel to come in lol just to prove I can still tunnel and make it effective. This is like the anti camp thing all over again. When they were talking about anti camp all survivors were saying "killers won't be able to camp anymore". All it did was teach killers to camp better, proxi camp instead of face camp. And the anti slug... All it did was make it so survivors can abandon when all slugged. I can almost guarantee anti tunnel will not prevent killers tunneling from the get go. They already know sometimes killers need to tunnel, you said it yourself there is a time to tunnel. If they nerf tunneling that drastically then tunneling later in the game won't be effective at all when it's needed for these times you talk about. if they succeed in doing a successful anti tunnel without breaking the game I will be very impressed.
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@mecca said:
Tunneling is an exploit of game design, it takes no skill, denies agency from survivors. It's easy to do which is why so many killers do it.
Makes no sense as tunneling means the killer has to chase, down and hook that same survivor multiple times. Makes no difference if it's the same survivor or any other survivor, the killer still has to do the same, chase, down, hook which demonstrates the same amount of skill. If killers were doing something that made chasing and downing easier then you might have a point but thats not the case.
If you want to talk about skill then where is the skill in doing gens (the main objective of a survivor)? Assuming 1 player can showcase their amazing looping skills to keep the killer occupied long enough for others to do gens... What skill are the 3 other survivors showing by sitting on a gen? None lol
Dbd is a simple game really, all it boils down to is can the killer kill faster than the survivors are doing gens or can the survivors do gens faster than the killers can kill. Survivors way of slowing the killers down is loop then for as long as possible, there are other ways but that's just 1 way. Killers way to slow survivors down is eliminate them 1 by 1 so less are working on gens. There are other tactics but that's just 1 way to do it. Whoever is faster usually wins. Efficiency from both sides usually means gen rushing v tunneling.
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I'm guessing in regular mode? Really not much point in Mori with the event because blood hooks offer way more BP
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I was playing survivor solely for a while minimal issues really besides the usual team mates, but 2 days after kaneki I went back to killer. I can tolerate awful team mates and go nexters even a nurse, but kaneki I won't. Other people might have additional reasons for not playing survivor but I have 1 reason and 1 reason only. Kaneki.
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@CrypticGirl said:
@Prometheus1092 Amazing how your experience can be so different from mine, as well as others I've seen on Twitch, etc. I've played and seen countless matches where the Survivors would bust three gens within the first minute, and then the Killer would pick up the pressure and eventually win the game. Whether it be by tunneling or other means. I see far fewer instances of Survivors coming back after a bad start. I believe that's the primary reason why we see so many Survivors giving up, because of how early they lose the game, even before they actually die.
Recovering from slugging is way more precarious than being unhooked because we don't have the basekit endurance. Yes, I run Soul Guard, and I hate that I have to have that as a permanent fixture in my perk slot, along with Kindred. I'd love to be able to run different builds, but oh no, it's far too risky to remove either of these perks.
Doing 3 gens isn't near end game that's mid game. 1 or 2 gens remaining is towards end game. You said tunneling near end game... I take that as tunneling when there is 1 or maybe 2 gens remaining, at which point it is usually too late to tunnel. Tunneling start and mid game yes it's very strong.
Another core aspect of survivor you seem to not like.... Survivors are strongest at the start when there are more of them, more gens to complete. They naturally get weaker as the match progresses. Killer is opposite. Killer is weaker at the start and gets stronger as the match goes on. Stronger with each player they eliminate while making survivors weaker. Stronger with gen defence due to less needing to be protected. This is the nature of killer and survivor. thats why killers tunnel so early, effective and helps be in a stronger position at the end because if they don't then they spend all match getting nowhere because survivors will be just as stronger as they were at the start. So if survivors have a bad start then it's usually only down hill from that point. If killers have a bad start they can come back easier through natural progression where they get stronger as the match goes on. Longer they leave it, stronger survivors are and weaker the killer is at the end game. If you want the ability to come back from a bad game then killer is the role for you. Survivor role naturally doesn't work that way.
As for the primary reason so many give up early, strongly disagree. In both my killer matches and survivor matches people will give up at the slightest thing 10 seconds into the match. Killer they don't like? Map they don't like? Killer found them first? More people will give up in the first minute of a match and that's before they have given the match a chance. Truly can't wait for go next prevention, it's insane how many go next before anything actually happens, not tunneled, camp, slug... Simply need to look at some survivors with Myers and they run up to me lol.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910636#Comment_3910636
Slugging is even more annoying than tunneling because it removes player agency. You can't do anything other than crawl around, and there are even fewer defenses against slugging than there are against tunneling.
Oh yeah, stealth is my preferred way to play as well, but as you admitted earlier, it fails sometimes.
Another thing that people fail to notice (and I can see why), is that we do recognize that there's a time and a place to tunnel and/or slug. Towards the endgame, yes, it makes sense to use that as a strategy. But many Killers have pushed those strats beyond the acceptable level, doing so at five gens against the first person they found. Or slugging from the very start and leaving them to bleed out, with no intention of hooking anyone. The last one in particular there is no justification for, ever.
But you say it makes sense to tunnel near end game where in my experience that far into the game makes tunneling far less effective and often a bad strategy as by that point the damage is already done. It makes more sense to tunnel from the get go when it's at its most effective.
It seems the annoying elements for a survivor is removing player agency but that's literally the killers goal. Slugging, tunneling, camping all removes player agency, all stops the survivor from doing anything. That's what killers are supposed to do. any tactic that doesn't remove player agency is a poor tactic for a killer.
Personally for me, being slugged is no different to being hooked. If anything I rather be slugged so I can crawl around, maybe move to a better location like near a pallet or one of the possible hatch spawn locations. (A few times I got hatch that way) that's something I can't do if I'm on the hook. Both hooked and slugged means I'm helpless and require my team to help so it makes no difference but I'm not going to suggest we remove hooks or something because they remove player agency. Especially now the surrender option is available, if all are slugged people can just abandon so there shouldn't be any issues with deliberately waiting out 4min slug time when everyone is slugged.
Stealth does sometimes fail but that's ok, can't expect a strategy to be 100% effective. It needs to fail from time. Especially for a survivor where the Devs want them to fail more than a killer. They aim for 60/40 kill rate, making stealth 100% effective would tip the scales too much.
It definitely seems like a lot of survivors just simply don't like the survivor role because the oppositions goal is to basically remove the player from the game or remove player agency. If the killer succeeds if their goals then survivors don't like it. Another reason why I like killer role, I know I can play a match from start to finish, that's something survivors can't do unless all escape which if that's happening all the time it means there's a major issue with the game.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910613#Comment_3910613
Sure, you could say it's that easy to counter tunneling (but it's not as easy as you claim, sorry to rain on your parade), and doing nothing but looping all game doesn't make it fun. Idk about you, but I'd like to do some other things. Some gens, some altruism, along with some chases.
And if the game is so hard for Killers that they're forced to rely on tunneling to even stand a chance, why are they playing?
I'd prefer players that can't handle tunneling to try a different game.
Maybe you should try a different game if you can't handle not tunneling.
but when killers opt to not tunnel and they slug instead then people don't like that either.
My suggestion is learn stealth, it works for me as survivor. It allows me to do gens, go for saves and if you want a chase you have the choice to go look for it or remain stealthy doing gens and it helps stop tunneling before it even happens. Covers everything you want. I'm not a pro player and I'm sure if I can do it, anyone can. Make shadow boon your best friend. As a scratch mirror Myers that thing is the bane of my existence so I know it works with helping survivors remain stealthy.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910395#Comment_3910395
Exactly - you're so good at finding unintended gameplay it got you a ban from this forum.
The devs said they intended the surrender option as a part of anti-slug efforts.
If The Guy Who Finds Unintended Stuff is telling them that the thing they wanted to be anti-slug is actually pro-slug, that is extremely valuable information to have. I'd trust your feedback more than any other user on this forum when it comes to that particular aspect of the game precisely because of that history
I'll take that as a compliment lol.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910325#Comment_3910325
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910357#Comment_3910357
When did I say you're not allowed to want a 4k? What I'm saying is that Killers will lose their **** at the possibility of anything less. They can't accept the fact that they're not going to 4k every single game. Getting a 3k and then the last Survivor getting hatch is okay, but you think it's not. And @Nomade in particular just proves my point, while also being hypocritical. You're like "What's wrong with wanting a 4k?" while also acting like it's wrong for us to want to escape every once in a while.
Getting 3k and the last survivor is ok, just like tunneling for the 4k is ok. You say killers lose their ######### if they don't get the 4k but survivors also lose their ######### if they don't get the hath, so much that before the surrender option was available survivors would hide for up to an hour waiting for the hatch.
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This is why I occasionally bring corrective action, sometimes it's because people can be surprisingly bad a skill checks but the other reason is to help prevent the random skill check
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910385#Comment_3910385
feel free to carefully reread and consider each word of what I said; I've already explained why your history is relevant to the post
ye I just don't see how it's relevant. But it's nice the Devs introduced the surrender option... That must mean it's bad decision based on previous posts I made apparently? That what your getting at?
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910375#Comment_3910375
I was talking about that time earlier this year when you got banned, very coincidentally just after you said your new strat was "don't chase survivors, just guard gens"
i don't see how that's relevent to what I'm saying about slugging. also I said what I said mainly to highlight a fundamental flaw in the game. Strangely enough, since then that flaw has now been addressed with the surrender option.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910319#Comment_3910319
Dev team need to read this post I think, and then contextualize it within this user's post history.
Player who has a history of being doom-and-gloom that any change will be anti-killer, and for advocating for killer players to the point of being banned for [to public speculation] accidentally taking it too far with encouraging unintended gameplay, seen here citing the so-called "anti-slug part 1" as proof that the devs intend for slugging to stay as a mechanic. What does that mean for your design decisions?
It is intended gameplay, slugging is a legit tactic. Slug em, hook em. Survivors didn't like being forced to wait 4min, now they don't. Devs gave survivors what they asked for
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It's possible they are D dosing. Used to happen to me, last survivor would basically flood the server so it shuts down and killer gets 0 rewards for winning.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910296#Comment_3910296
No, the reason Killers tunnel is because nothing less than a 4k is good enough for them, and tunneling is the easiest way to get it. It's like a drug that Killers are addicted to, and BHVR is once again forced to step in for an intervention.
because it's bad to get 4k? Bhvr should put out a notice "killers are not allowed to get 4k, not allowed to want 4k, if you even think about 4k you will be banned" it really is true survivors don't like anything the killer does, tunnel, slug, camp, perks, add ons, offerings, literally everything that doesn't include mindlessly going in a circle playing to the survivors every whim.
If survivors had the game their way being killer would be so linear and 1 dimensional, no diversity. Chase around pallet 10 times, next pallet....another 10 times. When killer gets a hook they must run to the other side of the map and spin around 5 times "Don't you dare try to improve your chances of getting kills tho, you play this way or not at all"
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910296#Comment_3910296
No, the reason Killers tunnel is because nothing less than a 4k is good enough for them, and tunneling is the easiest way to get it. It's like a drug that Killers are addicted to, and BHVR is once again forced to step in for an intervention.
Like they stepped in with slugging? By not preventing it but allowing killers to do it and giving survivors an option to admit defeat when all are slugged?
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908350#Comment_3908350
Going in circles around a pallet is their only defense. Killers get mad if survivors loop. They get mad if the hold W. What exactly do you want them to do?
Clearly not their only defence because I don't loop around a pallet. I don't do it for many reasons, mainly I think it's boring and repetitive. Other reasons include soloq where my team refuses to do gens so I could loop forever but makes no difference if gens don't get done. My way is to AVOID the killer, not run up to them like most people do. I primarily do gens but when killer is coming I pre run, hide, lose line of sight so I go can go back to doing gens. Even when all that fails I run like a normal person would, around the map, not around a single pallet. This is why so many people are suffering with being tunneled, they run around a pallet and don't bother to try losing line of sight. I don't have half as much issues with being tunneled because of how I play. I know there are aura perks for killers but it's not hard to play around them and there are perks to aid in countering it such as boons.
Point is survivors do have other choices but they like to he chased to showcase their "skill" and they like to run circles around a killer almost like it's mocking them. That's fun for them. Each to their own but I don't find it fun that's why I don't play that way.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909810#Comment_3909810
Give me tunnelers on 2020 pre-60% deadzone maps and you might have an argument. Going down as a survivor in current maps is hardly a measure of the survivors skill.
Going down isn't a measure of skill but when you go down is. Fail at looping a tunneling killer and go down in 20 seconds v looping a tunneling killer long enough for multiple gens to be done or make the killer drop chase. The difference between them is skill.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909810#Comment_3909810
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909900#Comment_3909900
This isn't about whether tunneling can be extended by looping or if gen-splitting causes pressure, it's about how one-sided the effort-to-impact ratio is.
It takes zero killer perks to tunnel and completely gut a survivor’s match. Meanwhile, it takes multiple specific survivor perks just to maybe delay being tunneled out and even then, it often doesn’t work. That’s not balance. That’s disparity.
Comparing that to looping, which is just part of core gameplay, is inappropriate. Tunneling isn't just pressure, it's elimination. There's no upside for the survivor being tunneled, only the killer.
Looping is only part of the core gameplay because survivors made it that way, when I'm survivor I use stealth and lose line of sight and only loop if I have to, even then I don't loop the same pallet over and over I travel the map when in chase. So it's not part of the core gameplay for me. So many people claim looping is the whole point to the game but it's not, it's one of various methods to avoid being killed. No different to a killer tunneling, just one of various methods to kill.
You say there is no upside for the survivor being tunneled but I'm failing to see the upside for the killer being looped. Tunneling only leads to elimination IF they can repeatedly catch the survivor, if they don't they allow gens to be completed which is clearly an upside to being tunnelled for the survivor.
Many times I have loaded into the match with a gen rush build (because I know soloq has issues with team mates doing gens, so I do them). Killer finds me, tunnels me. I have no anti tunnel perks selected, no chase perks even, yet I have still prolonged the chase and tunneling long enough for other to do gens and we all escape. Just 1 example of how perks are not needed to counter tunneling.
If we are just looking at effort to impact ratio, looping round a pallet takes very little effort and the impact on the killers time can be detrimental to them. Losing line of sight and being stealthy takes way more effort in my opinion and it even counters tunneling before it can start. Killer can't tunnel what they can't find.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909354#Comment_3909354
Because it tangentially touches on slugging.
How is making slugging stronger 'anti-slugging'?
It doesn't make it stronger it makes the effectiveness the same. The anti slugging is supposed to make it better for survivors that's my point. Survivors hated being slugged for 4min and being slugged for the 4k. The Devs know they can't stop it so they make it better by giving surrender option. Further improvements are due and they could be tweaks to the surrender option as well as maybe new perks to help give survivors a way to counter it but the fact it will be a continuation means they already started with anti slug.
It literally makes 0 sense to say surrender option | anti slug in the same line if they were separate things being introduced in separate updates.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Takes 0 perks to tunnel someone
Takes all the perks to extend the duration of you being tunneled.Except it takes 0 perks to loop. A good looper can extend the tunneling duration no problem by looping well.
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My solution is scratch mirror Myers on Hawkins. Most survivors are bringing bloodshot eye so there isn't as many sac wards flying around. Getting about 150,000 to 175,000 BP per match. I literally went afk for a bit at the start, came back and found 3 gens were done. Still managed to stop them from doing the 2 remaining gens and got 4k. Just saying there are ways without using super mobile killers.
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It's pretty funny that people down vote the ones that escape 40% or more. It's like they are saying "boooo, you escape more than me so must be my own skill issue that I don't escape 40% of the time" lmao
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Stop farting in my direction? Lmao that's a new one
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They are waiting for sales to slow down, then they will nerf ghoul lol
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@wantednewt192 said:
Can y'all please fix slugging like give us get up if the killer leaves us on the ground for too long I went against a huntress who decided the match should just be target practice and never hooked us to finish the game this is very frustrating and I don't want to be forced to quit a match and get penalized
If all are slugged you can abandon match penalty free. If all are not slugged then it's up to ones standing to either do gens or help you get up.
Just allowing you to get up because you don't like being downed won't work and won't be implemented due to the fact that people could go down by a pallet causing lose/lose situations where killer can't pick up because of the pallet save and can't leave slugged because they will get up. Yes killer could chase the people near the pallet to prevent the save but then the slugged survivor gets up on their own so killer can't get any hooks after they spent time downing a survivor. just won't happen. Best bet would maybe another perk added later on to help counter slugging but I can almost guarantee they won't just let survivors get up willy nilly after a while of being slugged
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40% of all matches? no... Due to teammates avoiding gens and go next. 40% of matches where the team actually plays the game? I would say yes roughly around that escape rate.
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@coldflame said:
survivors get to ff when they're losing, killers get to ff…when theyve won? if all survivors have ragequit the match should autoresolve in favour of the killer, bp included, rather than requiring them to 'lose'.
killer ff criteria would make more sense if the killer could instantly end the game in favour of survs a couple minutes after the gates have powered on, as this is a period in the match where the game state can often mean the killer can no longer realistically get a kill unless survivors blunder whilst the survivors can often extend the game by a decent amount of time
Technically a killer could use surrender when they are losing if the survivors are slowly but surely working on the last gen bit by bit, killer has 8 kick limit on the gen so after that point they just need to work on it slowly. Given enough time the survivors would do the gen and win but not only can the killer surrender after 10min but the killer wins by doing it even though survivors were winning and slowly doing the gen and on their way victory.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909023#Comment_3909023
Because the surrender measure was much wider than slugging. It contained four points, only one of which had to do with slugging. It just tangentially scraped the slugging issue, it's not their anti-slug solution.
Your failing to explain why it say anti slugging | surrender option. You also admit slugging was included in the surrender option but still don't see the connection between anti slug and surrender even when it's right Infront of you. This is like trying to have a logical conversation with trump lmao "global warming doesn't exist because not everywhere is warming up" 🤦♂️
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Screenshot_20250409_103440_Chrome.jpg@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909219#Comment_3909219
I believe both the anti-slugging and anti-tunnel solutions aren't being implemented until phase 2 of the QOL update. I think this means that surrendering when slugged is not planned on being the only solution to it, as they specifically planned for those changes to happen at a later date. I have no idea what solutions or counters they will implement for the anti-tunnel or anti-slugging, so I don't feel comfortable in assuming what it will be. The concept of Chucky ever being in the game, along with the concept of My Little Oni or 2v8 felt impossible at points in time. So, I truly don't know what the anti-measures will look like.
This implies the surrender option is the anti slugging, next phase there will be continued improvements but the fact they allow survivors to give up when slugged highly suggests they have no intention of stopping it happen so the continued improvement may be to tweak the surrender option in some way. Impossible to say for sure at this stage but it makes no sense to allow survivors to surrender under these conditions if they intend to remove slugging entirely.