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Predated
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@luka2211 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1168872#Comment_1168872
There's no point because each survivor would just make a perk build perfect for that certain killer and it would ruin the balance even more,i honestly don't know how you don't see that
Guess you misunderstood my post. I dont mean showing which killer it is, but being able to click on the name and see their steam profile.
If those players happen to main a single killer and have tons of images of that killer on their profile, then yeah, it might be a disadvantage, but they should be skilled enough with that single killer to compensate for that disadvantage
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@luka2211 said:
Just no dude,just no.
I honestly dont really see an issue you can have with this unless you're actively ruining games for people.
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@ThisGuuy83 said:
This must be a PC problem, because I can't see that on ps4, unless I'm missing something...
Kinda, basically, on pc you can click on the name of a survivor and see if they are playing dbd with someone else in the lobby or not and see what type of player they generally are by all the +rep/-reps in their comments. So as a killer, you have the option to bail out based on items and steam profiles, where as a survivor, you wont know anything about the killer at all untill you're in the match. Which can be a good thing if the killers were genuinely scary, but it ends up being a lot more frustrating.
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@Mandy said:
I'd actually prefer to argue for removing all profiles in the lobby so that nobody can see anything about the person they are playing with. That way I believe it's equal for everyone.
Yeah, but I honestly see a lot more issues with that. You might aswell remove the fact for the killer to see what items survivors are carrying, or what player character the opposition has chosen, let alone being able to see if the players are in fact a full team or seperate players. Then you remove all the pre-planning that a killer needs to counterplay. Perhaps when the game is in a state where skill and mindgames are more important than perks and items.
Personally, I think the only other way, is to actually give a rating system on players and show who are playing together. What these ratings are about, I dont know, especially because some ratings dont matter, but personally, I want to be able to have some kind of indication what type of killer im facing, because I rather enter a 20 minute queue than having another hillbilly rev his chainsaw over a slugged body of a friend that I cannot possibly save unless I want to be his replacement slug. The current ratings dont matter, because even if I rate those type of killers as a 1/5, I still end up in another match with them.
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@MiniPixels said:
Unfortunately even more people would start lobby dodging for that, there are some streamers out there, who I wont name any names, but they act really scummy and have a client that tells them what killer their playing against, and will dodge if they even suspect that they could be sniping their 50 viewer stream.
yeah, lobby dodging is an issue, but honestly, I rather be able to not face the same type of killer 5 games in a row. I've been checking post game killers who literally tried their best ruining the fun, and they all have the same type of profiles: Anime girl, russian profile but country placed in europe, very limited amount of comments due to deletion. They somehow have 5000 ebony mori's as they always use them and slug camp people for no reason. They are simply no fun to play against and there is no way around them. They consist about 30% of all killers I faced, so roughly 1/3rd of the bad games I have had in the past 2 weeks, could have simply been non-existant if I was able to see who I was dealing with.
I dont care about the type of killer, I dont need that. All I want is to be able to click on their name and see their steam profile.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167487#Comment_1167487
Yeah sure! We'll stop when the devs actually fix the #########. It's like saying that your gonna do something but never do it. Like Peantis said "It's on our to do list", but here's a list of bugs that have existed at least 6+ months and they haven't done nothing about
1. Entity blocker when activated on windows survivors can still jump through
2. Nurse bugs and can't chain blink sometimes or interact with pallets, not to mention sometimes not do anything after a blink. Not including the unblinkable places she always has to deal with
3. Sounds "always broken every patch one way or another"
4. Myers and Ghostface stalk been broken since dedicated servers and still not been fixed.
5. Billy still has ghost hits with chainsaw
6. Flashlights stun wraith in cloak and keep him cloaked instead of bringin him out of cloak. Which can lead to multiple free stuns
7. Auto Aim on all killers, so many times you get gimped into objects a survivor is looping and you cant turn it off... oh btw MOBILE has that option
8. Grabs animation fails. You get the animation of grabbing a survivor and they run off
9. Freddy is unplayable on Hawkins if using dream pallets. There are 0 pallets you can place till you actually break some because all pallets are prespawned on the map
10. Killer getting stuck in an endless grab animation of survivor that is lagging out... you cant get free till fully dc'd
But they can fix DS and basement bug within 7 days because survivors aren't happy. But killers are suppose to be alright and not get salty with waiting almost a year for some bugs to get fixed
Oh really? Surivor bugs get fixed in 7 days?
- When you go fully around a corner, the huntress can still get a hit, even though you're obviously not in range.
- When you go through a window, its basically RNG if you're in range of a hit, because sometimes I end up being able to reach the pallet in the killer shack, drop it(in case of a trap when chased by trapper) AND STILL GET DOWNED FROM A WINDOW HIT. So lets break the action down: I fast vault through a window, the killer initiates a lunge, I reach a pallet that's on the opposite side of the building, see a trap placed on the floor, drop the pallet, killer lunge finishes and hits me, even though I am nowhere near and the game did register me dropping the pallet. How is this even just an issue with latency?
- If you do a full 360 on a killer and start running when they have their backs turned at you, they are sometimes still able to hit you due to latency(there are a LOT of latency issues that are favorable for killers).
- When you go for a protection hit on the hook, sometimes it goes through you and hits the player thats being unhooked, instantly downing them even though you're still fully healthy.
- Mending sometimes glitches out to the point where the game overrides the mending, causing legion to have a permanent haunted grounds effect(so far, all legions I faced have been good sports, because obviously being able to instadown people at all times while in a frenzy is a bit OP, only happened about 3 times). But this also basically reduces the effect of BT, Styptic Agent and Mettle of Man to 0.
- Often when injured with a medkit in hand, you cannot heal the other injured survivor with the medkit and instead heal yourself, due to latency issues. Because even though on your screen you're standing still, and on the screen of the injured survivor you both are standing still, on Bill's, Nea's or Ghostface's screen, one of you is still moving.
All in all, dedicated servers have solved "some" issues that were massively dormant, but those issues were laughable considering to how much latency affects normal gameplay.
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@AlightBULLDOG said:
So I was just in a match had a key that I was running around with escape through the hatch as I was the last survivor. I earned a silver a gold a silver and a bronze which earns me 8000 7013 2600 and 2638... Yet I didn't even pick up or retain my rank I actually went down... I've earned 13000 blood points in a match and have still retained my pip level how TF does that work???
Simplest explanation:
You gain a pip after getting a certain score.
No emblem is 0 points, bronze is 1 point, silver is 2 points, gold is 3 points and iridescent is 4 points.
Depending on you rank, you require a different amount of points. Seeing as you gained 8 points and lost a pip, that should mean you're around rank 4-1. At which point I do kinda have to point out that you sound like you've been boosted by others if you havent figured out how the pipping system works, or at the very least you sound like an old player returning to the game considering it used to work on bloodpoints.
Here is a more in-depth explanation on how you rank up these days: https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Rank
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@emptyCups said:
This text wall is absolutely awful to try and read on mobile.
But I see you made a grand effort to express yourself so I'll support and congratulate that.
thanks for that, if you ever end up having some spare time and are on pc, please take some time reading it through. Its just to give dev's some incentive to change the game in a way where killers are absolutely terrifying to face again.
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@Dr_doom_j2 said:
This is amazing that you went this in depth and I intend to read most of it.. but honestly, you should post this somewhere where it would look more appealing to read through, or post a YouTube style rant with this being your script.... It is just soooo long that many people, including I'm sure the devs and mod's, wouldn't even bother looking at it too long. Just a friendly opinion.
I understand it, which is why I started off with a long post. Personally, I think that killers mains alone would like to see that even survivors are sick and tired of the state of the game. This is essentially just to see if anyone who does interact with it agrees with it and raises attention. If it raises enough attention, I'd formulate it somewhere else too and perhaps mods and devs alone would want to see it through the attention it raises. I could have posted this on Reddit too, but lets be honest, Reddit probably gets ignored a lot more by the development team than here.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1156239#Comment_1156239
I don't think you should get points for what basically amounts pseudo disconnecting.
If you want to ######### off slugged that's fine but you gain no reward for it.
Your denying an element of strategy on the Killers part. (Do some Killers abuse it yeah doesn't mean you should gimp it)
Exactly this. I do not want to impact the overal strategies of killers, however, if you happen to slug 3 people and find the 4th one, leaving the slugged people behind should add a tiny risk. Having unbreakable as a perk isnt exactly a risk, as you're pretty much forcing the usage of unbreakable, which would end up in every single survivor running it instead and having essentially a survivor Ruin. It locks in the meta to specific playstyles and simply isnt fun to play for both sides. That's why I want to add in a little side mechanic and give it as much punishment as possible, even if succeeded.
All in all, I want a lot of things to change. Buffing both killers and survivors will add in a lot more playstyle possibilities.
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@AlsendDrake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153195#Comment_1153195
No, EGC was added because the survivors could, if they saw fit, hang around for as long as they wanted, just hiding in corners to waste the killer's time.
Slugging has an absolute maximum time.
Old gates open did not.
I agree to that, but that doesnt mean that giving anyone the inability to play isnt an issue. It's still a waste of time. It might not be as severe, but severity is not an implication of issues existing.
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@cipherbay_ said:
I swear Killers just shouldnt be allowed to apply any pressure towards survivors because you have entitled babies like this complaining about one of the very very few methods killers have to counter broken gen speed
Nah, if you think im entitled, read up the new post. My whole point is that the inability to play the game without having an option out should not be a position that exists. Just because I see one issue doesnt mean I dont see the other issues.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1158068#Comment_1158068
You're comparing having to wait 2 minutes to play another game, a video game, to being shot.
I'm done here.
So? Analogies exist to point out why its wrong. The ability of being forced to wait shouldnt even exist. If your argument doesnt hold up in one way that has the same logic to it, it doesnt hold up in the other way either. The logic being that an issue exists, and even though the severity of the issue is considerably smaller than it used to be, doesnt mean that issue shouldnt be fixed.
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@Steve0333 said:
Until devs do something about gen times or find a way to give survivors another objective I say moris are exactly where they should be.
Problem with the game right now is that survivors dont have to play well to win. They just have to go to gens and hold down a button. They can fail at looping and fail at avoiding the killer as long as the other survivors are doing gens. It's too easy for survivor right now.
Killers bring a mori into the game and suddenly survivors have to play good. Suddenly survivors have to prove they deserve to be in red ranks because as we all know majority of them dont.
Honestly, I feel like most Mori's currently are outdated and need to be removed from the game to be implemented in a different way.
NOED should be an Ebony Mori at the end of the game and be revoked of a hex status. Perhaps turning the exposed timer back to 2 minutes like it used to be while having a permanent haste status. I mean, back in the day NOED really held up to its name because being hooked after the gates were powered pretty much meant you were dead. But nowadays? NOED should give the option to straight up murder someone once the gates are powered.
Rancor is basically an Ivory Mori already, but should apply on gates being powered rather than all gens being done.
Leaving only Cypress Mori, which could simply be removed if the final survivor turns into the obsession if the killer closes the hatch, making Rancor take it's place.
It's perhaps a crude fix, not very well thought out considering potential consequences, but currently Mori's, especially Ebony Mori, are ruining the pipsystem and simply ruin the mood of a game.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155690#Comment_1155690
A great skillcheck is pretty much free. Hence why people also say DS is a free escape.
DS isnt a great skillcheck tho, its nearly twice its size. That's why its a practical free escape.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153195#Comment_1153195
Hostage For a few minutes? Oh honey... people would hold the game hostage for up to AN HOUR. So yes, the EGC was needed.
Now you're just really stretching and grasping at straws.
@Spirez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155615#Comment_1155615
Moris and BNPs have nothing to do with slugging and EGC.
Again, if you are going to keep crying about 120 seconds... go play a different game. No one ever wants to hear an entitled survivor or killer on here.
Again, if it happens multiple times a week, let alone twice a day, its very much an issue that needs to be taken care of. Sure, its not at the degree of the old times(Because, again, the people who had the time and energy to keep a game hostage for a whole hour was rare AF).
What you people are saying is basically the following: "people being shot nowadays isnt an issue we should look into anymore, because it's much rarer these days and the medical field has grown enough that the vast majority of cases end up fully healing, those people who complain about being shot are really entitled nowadays to wanting to reduce gun violence even further".
2 minutes of not being able to play, adding the matchmaking done for that match too, which is definitely at least 5 minutes on average, which makes it 7 minutes being completely wasted not playing the game. Have that happen to you at least twice a week, and you have 14 minutes adding up weekly where you're wasting time in matchmaking because you're gonna join a game with a killer who has a specific slug build on people who figure it out a bit too late because there is no way of telling that someone has a slug build untill 2 people are already floored. That's almost 1 hour per month. Consistently. Those matches where people held the game hostage for up to an hour? Happened at best 3-4 times a year.
I am acknowledging an issue and trying to find a way to fix it without affecting normal gameplay.
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@CaptainCastle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155714#Comment_1155714
Are you being serious right now kid? I can't expect a developer who comments on a thread to, you know, actually respond to the thread?
Aren't there overpriced cosmetics you should be simping over lol
Yes, you CANNOT EXPECT A SINGLE EMPLOYEE TO REPRESENT THE DECISIONS OF AN ENTIRE TEAM.
The dev said that it is something they will work on. That is what they are qualified to publicly state. Want more examples to why you cannot?
What you're asking, is a McDonalds burgerflipper to give commentary on which cows are selected for the beef and why.
What you're asking, is a retail employee why your store sells an item for a higher price than other stores.
What you're asking, is asking your police officer on why certain laws are being made.
Why not? Because its on a public forum, and any comment they make that disagrees with the rest of their team could cost them their job, because its not their job to leave public commentary, because they are not representatives. THAT is why you cannot expect a single developer to answer a question that could be taken as the statement of the entire development team.
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@toxcitynacl said:
Slugging is pretty much a low rent tactic, but allowing a survivor to go from dying to injured without some perk would be way OP--aside from perks like No Mither and Unbroken, plus having other survivors who can (and should) come and heal you...yeah way OP.
I dont understand why people still think its even comparable to no mither or unbreakable. What I am describing is far from that. If there are other survivors who can and should heal you, its in your best interest not to do it yourself. Its something you should only be really wanting to do as a last resort. Unbreakable and No Mither can be done pretty willy nilly.
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@Zaitsev said:
It should be an ability exclusively for the last survivor. If you are the last surv, AND your comrades are dead, not escaped, you can pick yourself up like No Mither
That would be way to easily abused though. You could have a friend DC while on hook, just in case you're close to the hatch but too far to reach it, giving someone a free hatch which they otherwise would not have reached. Which is much less of a rare situation than being slugged and left alone for prolonged times.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Your discussion should be a DC issue.
If the DC penalties weren't implemented, survivors could DC any time.
But that's also really bad.
People are just jerks sometimes. =/
Yeah, im trying to find a very balanced way of actually fixing that specific issue without making it something people can use willy nilly. It's not perfect as it is now, but its slowly getting there. Now here's to hoping that something like that actually gets implemented, or that BHaviour actually start taking reports of unfun killers/survivors seriously. Things would be so much better if extreme genrushers would only be facing the extreme slug campers.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155689#Comment_1155689
You're correct, except if the killer slugs you instead of immediately hooking you again. He understands it's not your fault and is giving you a second chance to escape before he/she may come back for you. Which again, you have a few perks at your disposal to use while you're slugged to either escape or crawl away quickly. You also have 2 other people to help you out (assuming the third is being chased). I don't understand why having the ability to play longer in the trial instead of getting immediately hooked 2-3 times and die because you can't outrun a killer is a problem.
Which would be true in one case, but in 99% of the cases, they will chase the other person because they are the only other survivor left. If slugging happened every single game, everyone would be using unbreakable, causing killers to stop slugging at all, causing people to stop using unbreakable. If 1 perk is linked to a specific meta, then there simply is a problem. The whole reason hook mechanics were changed, was because there was a survivor meta that would 99 all the hooks, forcing killers to run hangmans trick if they wanted to counter it, with survivors not 99ing hooks anymore due to hangmans trick being constantly used. A perk was linked to a certain meta, and they changed that meta to no longer require a perk. So really, what is the difference here?
I'm all for buffing both killers and survivors to a point where there is more freedom in playstyles on both sides, which is currently being worked on(personally, I want the walls to be instabreakable and not be just vertical killer pallets, adds a lot more interesting gameplay than just making some loops shorter). But with the current meta? This can happen, is extremely unenjoyable when it happens and breeds toxicity. All im trying is to find a way of giving a way out of a very specific case(2 players left, 1 person slugged so the killer can hunt the other person without opening the hatch first, or 4 people slugged for 2 minutes due to a certain type of russian killer being basically an #########), without having to rely on perks, while also not affecting normal gameplay. Because in normal gameplay, I dont need to rely on unbreakable to have fun, even if I lose. In normal gameplay, if someone happens to run unbreakable, they rarely are able to use it, and if they do use it, its because their teammates are incapable of picking him up otherwise for one reason or another. In normal gameplay, Adrenaline, Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time are actually extremely unreliable perks to use and are often a waste of perk space. Making things like Spine Chill or Iron Will much more preferable.
And again, I am very open as to making that ability as unpreferable as possible. Perhaps making an activated Adrenaline, DS, BT and Unbreakable affect that mechanic to being unusable, as they already have used something to get out of a sticky situation.
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@CaptainCastle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152733#Comment_1152733
No word on the actual topic of the thread, though? Come on, buddy.
You cant really expect 1 dev to give word to a topic, representing the entire company. Thats like expecting someone working at domino's having to give a word on the topic of logo design. They simply arent representatives of the company.
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@Huff said:
Just make bleeding out the same as being hooked. Once the bar is halfway gone, allow survivors to bleed out/let go. If they allow people to let themselves go on the hook, I don't see the huge problem with allowing people who are halfway bled out and just crawling around to end their games early too and move on.
I only say this because as I said before, they already have a similar option available when a survivor is hooked, and because any time I find myself playing survivor and get to bleed out that much, it's usually because my team mates don't plan on helping me any time soon. Even recently I've died of purely bleeding out because my team mates wouldn't come over and pick me up, without even being hooked.
See, I thought of something like that before, but its not really different than just a disconnect. It can be abused against killers too, because if you're downed more than once, odds are very likely that the bar reaches halfway in normal gameplay. Allowing survivors to yeet out at that point doesnt grant the killer any emblem points. Sure, the killing factor grants 2 points regardless, but you could literally bait a killer to come pick you up, and bleed out before he is able to pick you up, which wastes killer time. The whole reason I made it as complex as it is, is because its meant to be a last resort, not something to be used in regular gameplay.
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@Kebek said:
Yet another extremely ridiculous request for incredibly, I mean INCREDIBLY huge survivor buff to make gen rushing even more prevalent. I honestly don't know how can someone even come up with ideas as ridiculous as this, especially as main argument beiing that beiing slugged is not fun and "hold the game hostage" which it clearly does not.
While we're at it let's make gens repair themselfs since that's boring too. Ohh and don't forget that losing is not fun as well let's remove that too so that survivors can have their much desired "fun".
Another person who simply read the title and not the rest of the argument. Its not a buff. Its not even enabling genrushing. Having a 4 man slug and the killer not picking up anyone, is in fact a form of holding the game hostage, and the ability of that even being able to be used should be fixed.
Let me make it clear for you again:
- its a skillcheck comparable to BNP, even tinier in my view, which is not a guaranteed hit. Tons of people go through BNP without even hitting one single skillcheck.
- if failed, it REGRESSES your recovery, maybe even fully resetting it, meaning it will take another 40-ish seconds before you can even try again.
- Again, if failed, it notifies the killer, giving information that the survivor is trying to pick themselves up, giving the killer 40 seconds to go back and pick that survivor up and hooking him before allowing a second chance at picking themselves up. Because
- You need to be OUTSIDE of the killer terror radius to pick yourself up, meaning that if the killer is nearby, you cannot even perform it.
- If succeeded, you recieve the broken status for at least 1 full minute, and the killer has the option to do a 180 and go back and chase you again.
NONE of this is realistically usable in a normal game.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155674#Comment_1155674
A free pickup is simply too strong, and no one with extensive knowledge of the game takes pips seriously.
It is not free, though.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1155619#Comment_1155619
They totally should. It's 4v1. A team trying to survive the trials together versus one lone killer. Obviously there are perks for those who do the lone wolf route but obviously they don't make it very far since most don't use it. And those that do can easily survive and out-chase most killers. The minute someone dies, it makes the game more difficult for the rest of the survivors.
And again, if you don't want to rely on others because you "don't want to be punished for the actions of others", there are perks such as unbreakable and no mither to help you along with that.
So? it being a 4 v 1 should not make the decisions of 1 person affect the experience of the other in such a significant way.
If someone continues to fail skillchecks, then your decision to stay with that person fixing the gen, which obviously will draw the killer, is a mistake on your behalf. Hearing the music increase when the killer is obviously chasing someone, with you not going to hide in a locker or somewhere else a chased survivor would literally never go, would be a mistake on your part. Being unhooked and downed instantly while the killer continues to chase the person who unhooked you, is not your mistake. Hell, I'd even say that if someone was not using borrowed time, they should be taking the hit regardless of who the killer actually attacks, because its not your mistake. If it is not you taking a risk, its not you who should be taking the punishment.
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@Exerlin said:
I think that would be fine if they dramatically increased the time it takes to recover (I'm talking to at least a minute). But that does get rid of a lot of pressure slugging can put on the survivor team, and that's not something that the game needs to lose right now.
Its why I am trying to make the option as uninteresting to use as possible. It should literally be a last resort and not guaranteed to happen, and in the case if tried and failed should punish someone harshly, perhaps even resetting the entire recovery bar(personally, I was thinking about 50-75% regression). And if succeeded, should still punish that person using it. Making waiting for survivors to pick you up even after a minute be more endearing than trying it yourself.
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@Rey_512 said:
How about this? Make it so when you’re fully (Max) recovered on the ground - and you don’t have Unbreakable unused - you have a 4% chance to “kobe”/pick yourself off the ground.
You get 3 default chances. If you fail all 3, you die. That way you don’t give survivors a free Unbreakable but you can take yourself out of the game against a slugging killer that drags out a match.
No different than killing yourself on hook.
Kinda, but the difference is that if you die on the ground, it doesnt count towards killer emblems. ######### survivors could abuse that to basically force a killer to depip. Which is not my intention. My intention is purely that using it would, under normal circumstances, be something that aides the killer, having someone regress their recovery when on the ground while also notifying the killer would only help the killer, if they pick themselves up and recieve a broken status for one or multiple minutes would aid the killer.
People think its basically unbreakable with a skillcheck, but its not. The brand new part skillcheck is basically just the great skillcheck. Hitting it consistently is tough, even for experienced survivors. Let alone that things like Lullaby and Doctor's shock therapy would affect it too(which actually would buff a slugging doc even more, but then at least if someone makes a slug build and it's a doc, you're prepared to face a slugbuild).
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@MiniPixels said:
Interesting concept, but no thanks way too strong. With unbreakable and no mither your sacrificing something, unbreakable a whole perk slot that you can use once per match, with no mither, your sacrificing a health state to use it infinitely. One of the many problems this game currently has is how many second chance options survivors have, I'm not saying killers don't have them either, but the amount of second chances survivors get is INSANE. Get unhooked anywhere close to the killer? Borrowed time. Get picked up even after the killer hooks 2 survivors before grabbing you? Decisive Strike. Get steamrolled and the killer is carrying everyone to a hook? Unbreakable, whole team is up now. Have a couple gens left and it looks like your gonna lose? Key, everyone escapes for free. Last one alive, boom, hatch you escaped even though you didn't deserve it all. Things like hatch and perks to prevent tunneling are fine, but on top of the list of second chances survivors get sometimes your just untouchable, Dead hard imo is the biggest offender of this, not because you can bait a swing, or you get invulnerability, but that small amount of distance you get, in high ranks that's enough to start another chain of loops that can double a killers chase time, you can't bait DH for distance, and it's basically a free health state. That's why I don't agree with it, good concept though because I totally agree being slugged for too long sucks.
Second chances are a myth. The whole reason those perks were implemented was because certain strategies were simply too strong on their own. Tunneling an unhooked survivor after camping brought Borrowed Time into life. Tunneling a survivor for prolonged time brough Decisive Strike into light(besides, if you hook 2 people and STILL get striked, you're obviously rushing too much. It's a mistake on your part) Slugging and lack of communication in general brought No Mither into life, but since No Mither was too obvious to ever really work(seriously, how often do you see someone use No Mither and it actually working? I have only seen that happen in custom games), so Unbreakable was made. Adrenaline+Hope in combination was literally the counter to NOED, 2 perks being required to counter 1 killer perk. So really, you cannot really call them second chance, as in the current meta, often 1 person having 1 of those perks is required to even have a generally competitive game, let alone if you have ######### killers who try to ruin the game for 1 specific survivor.
By the way, key? REALLY? You're gonna call a key a second chance? So, how about all the mori's? How about Discordance giving you info whenever 2 people are on a gen regardless of where you are on the map, regardless of what you did? Key's are not second chance. Its not a free escape. The generator formula has the following results to spawn in the hatch: 4 survivors fixed 5 gens, 3 survivors 4 gens, 2 survivors 3 gens. If survivors can fix enough gens to have a hatch spawned and they have a key(which you can see in the lobby, if you didnt look at items in the lobby, thats on you), then they literally earned the requirement to be able to open the hatch. If you happen to know the hatch is spawned in and know they have a key, you literally need to add the hatch to your patrol. Survivors cannot escape at the same time and killers have a higher priority to closing the hatch than survivors escaping.
As for the hatch, well, like I said, often killers get a mori because someone unhooked you without using borrowed time and the killer kills you, also unearned. Hatch is based on memory and speed. If both of you know where the hatch is, 99% of the time the killer will be able to find it before it even opens(unless you mori, but you shouldnt mori the second last survivor if you know the hatch is visible to survivors).
Then I can open up the can of worms on killer perks: you can do terribly as a killer and still get instadowns with NOED or Haunted Grounds. You can be awful in micromanagement on gens and have Ruin do the job for you instead. You can be awful at predicting where survivors would go and have BBQ or Rancor give that information straight to you, let alone that you could be terrible at patrolling and having Discordance hold your hand as where to go next. Let alone all the instadowns that are in the game: You can have Honing Stone on Trapper that instadowns a survivor, regardless of how good the killer actually placed the trap, it could have been in a very non-strategic point and it's a free dying state for the killer. You have Myers who can get perma Tier 3 relatively easily with the right addons, which is just a matter of copypasting a build and you have a build that always works as long as you walk around the map. You have a huntress with iridescent head that is basically just a long range perma noed, see someone charge for a window? Free instadown regardless of skill. Iridescent Coin on Deathslinger gives an instadown, which can be done regardless of how good you are at the game(not including the fact that if he spears you, you cannot strafe sideways, which makes it practically impossible to get an object inbetween you if there are some potential objects in the way). Let alone the fact that 5 of the killers already have an instadown as a base ability. Those all grant rookie killers the ability to do much better than they normally otherwise could, and they grant good killers quite a strong ability. Obviously, some combinations are really strong, but in the context of the whole game, you cannot judge the strength of perks based on those strong combinations. This game simply has some safety nets for bad players that can be abused by great players. The thing that I offered, is comparable to being able to unhooking yourself as a survivor. Which isnt strong at all, but in the case where all 4 survivors are on the hook at the same time, at least gives the chance of one of them being able to make a change to the outcome. If then, they are capable of unhooking all 4 and win the game without the killer killing anyone, that would be on the killer. Because if you have the skill to hook 4 survivors at once but then continue to never hook any of them again, you were relying on something external. What I described, should fit in that catagory. If someone has both the time and thinks it worth risking to pick themselves up, at the cost of being broken while also having the risk of regressing that recovery bar and notifying the killer(which is much more negative side than a survivor unhooking themselves), is able to pick everyone up and still win the game, then the killer who slugged everyone relied on something else, be it something like haunted grounds, or the altruism of the opposing team. Regardless, I do not see a single way, where it is a smart move to risk picking yourself up under those circumstances unless the killer already downed everyone else.
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@Desh said:
Left to bleed out? They bleed out because survivors crawl away, doing it out of spite so they don't get hooked. If your teammate hasn't gotten you by the time you bled out, blame your mates.
But that is the thing, not a single person should be punished for the actions of the other.
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@Spirez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153195#Comment_1153195
That’s where you are wrong. If you’re slugged you WILL bleed out in 2 minutes. Before EGC there was no timer at the end. Survivors could just hide in lockers and start a totem and stop and go back into a locker so they’ll never get crows for as long as they wanted. Now there is a timer just like slugging. If you’re saying you don’t want EGC to be a thing then might as well also say that the timer for slugging will now be infinite and the only way to die is to be hooked.
Like I said, if you don’t have time for 120 seconds you obviously don’t have time for this game and it is not for you so go play something else.
Nah, im saying that in the old EGC, the rarity of encountering players like that was practically 0%. It wasnt exactly 0, but it might as well have been. I only encountered 1 survivor doing that to me after hundreds of games as a killer and only 1 survivor after thousands of games as survivor in the old EGC. Besides that, back then, you could still hear breathing in lockers too. Essentially, as a killer you can actually still play the game. You cannot play the game when everyone is slugged. Sure, its "just" 2 minutes, but its 2 minutes of not being able to do ANYTHING. That's the difference there.
Besides that point, does it really matter if something is rare? It happened enough times to be annoying AF. All im trying to add is a solution to help fix that rare event that doesnt affect normal gameplay much. I mean, remember old brand new part? It was just a 2 minute game and having a 4 man squad carrying one each was rare enough that it didnt happen every single game(because it actually was an extremely rare thing to be in the blood web, looking at you ebony mori). Yet it was big enough of an issue to be changed. So why be so biased as to care for one game mechanic being abused, even though its "just 2 minutes" but its survivor sided, yet not care to "just 2 minutes" when its survivor sided. Especially if said fix does NOT AFFECT NORMAL GAMEPLAY.
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@NullEXE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1149276#Comment_1149276
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1149279#Comment_1149279
Just because you are the last survivor in the game does not mean you are entitled to escaping. There is no reason why the last of the gens should be automatically completed for you, nor does it mean you should be granted not one but 3 optional escape routes in which 2 you have to simply just wait furthest from the free win mechanic to also get to exploit for free.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1149361#Comment_1149361
You still failed to keep the other alive, the same ones you NEEDED to survivor yourself, and failed to complete your objective. You are not entitled to a free win mechanic when you failed at all of your objectives.
Oh, so according to you, using a mori doesnt entitle killers to killing people after 1 hook? Because regardless of how ######### you are, mori is relatively easy to pull off.
"You still failed to keep the other alive, the same ones you NEEDED to survivor yourself, and failed to complete your objective."
No, that is not how the game works. You have 4 people trying to work together to help as many people escape as possible. If you are able to escape, you literally achieved that objective. You dont NEED other survivors to be alive to escape. You cannot blame the deaths of others to the ones surviving(well, sometimes, but you cant save someone from their third hook across the map). The option to escape should always be there, with the only exception being bloodwarden(but really, if you can open a gate and get someone hooked half way through, you deserve being stuck in game).
Considering exit gates can spawn practically right next to each other, and the only way to get out is to use very specific mindgames as a survivor, if a survivor can escape, they deserved it.
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@DrownedFish said:
If there is only one survivor and killer closed the hatch before survivor finds it, killer earned that kill tbh...
Nope, the whole reason the hatch was closable was to prevent a hatch face down. Finding the hatch is random and you cant "earn" things on randomness. Thats like saying survivors earn the hatch escape because they found the hatch, regardless of how ######### they were.
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@johnmwarner said:
Here’s what solo survivors need to reach basic SWF comm level... base kit Bond, kindred and better together.
And then they balance killers towards that. Which honestly, wouldnt be a bad thing. You cant first buff killer and then balance survivors around that, because then you'd get more perks to counter act #########. People are already saying that some perks are second chance perks, while NOED isnt, even though NOED is a better perk than Adrenaline to the point that it fully counters Adrenaline(unless Adrenaline gets a buff where it will inflict deep wound status). Once people stop looking at those perks and looking at the difference between optimal 4 man SWF and base game mechanics. Then start changing base game mechanics to fit that, making the optimal 4 man SWF build essentially inexistent. Then change the base killer mechanics to fit those new mechanics.
For example, if we buff solo queue to the point of SWF, then it would make a lot more sense for Insidious to be a perk that allows a killer to sneak around, being fully invisible to all aura readings, no footsteps and no terror radius, than to camp a hook, it would make a lot more sense for bloodhound to actually leave a visible trail thats more accurate than scratchmarks after you just hit a survivor, it would make a lot more sense for Territorial Imperative to make the killer walk faster towards the basement when someone else is in the basement, which can be used while in a chase aswell. It would make sense to buff a lot of currently terrible killer perks because there would be room to do so. Right now, both survivors and killers have been nerfed to the ground, there is still room for nerfing, obviously, but there is no room to buffing weak and terrible perks. Dejavu, even after getting buffed, is still terrible. But if they buff it slightly more, it would suddenly be too strong. Sole Survivor, practically useless, but give it a buff and you suddenly have a perk that is too strong. Just like Mori, right now, its just slightly too strong for the average match. Especially when you have a camping tunneler too. Yet nerf it, even in the way that I suggested, and it would simply be slightly too weak. Still strong enough to actually make a difference, but it simply wont do. Up The Ante is a very niche perk, and way too weak. There are only 2 uses for it: gain 3% extra for a self unhook and gain 3% extra in freeing yourself. It simply is too low, even if you have a 4 stack with 4 vigo salty lips. You might aswell simply use Deliverance. Not a single survivor perk can be truly considered S tier. And not a single one can be made S tier without ruining games of killers consistently.
Then you have killer perks like beast of prey, which, if you make the redstain disappear at the start of a chase, its simply too strong of an indication and killers might aswell simply turn around. It would make a lot more sense for Beast of Prey to allow for bloodlust to start slightly earlier, but even that can be gamebreaking. Predator could be altered, but it would be too strong in the current meta. It could be similar to my previous description of Bloodhound, where it would leave a very visible scratchmark trail, even when a survivor is walking(which would also buff Fixated) after you hit them or lost them in a chase. All of those changes are possible in game if you buff survivors and killers quite a bit.
One of the biggest changes they should make, however, is when a killer forces out 1 survivor early in game. That survivor should get a compensation for that sacrifice too. That way, a killer is free to simply tunnel a single survivor without forcing a survivor to lose a pip, which currently is the biggest issue I have with things like Mori in the first place. The whole thing of forcing survivors to lose a pip without it really being their fault is disgusting. Losing a pip due to mistakes made, sure, fine, losing one because the killer happened to find you early, tunnel you after an unhook and mori you within 3 minutes of the game? Not fine.
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@BabyCameron10 said:
They should just make flip flop part of the base kit but a bit weaker, that way the killer prevents slugging.
Weaker flip flop and boil over should be part of the base kit, with the actual perks making quite a difference. Right now the perks are too weak to use effectively unless used in combination with each other while slugged.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
Just give survivors another recover bar after the first one to get healed to injured.
Well, thats too easy and simple and doesnt give any risk. I'm intending it to be on par with unhooking yourself. That way Unbreakable would be comparable to Deliverance.
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@Polychrome_Baku said:
No. People like you should keep their opinions to themselves. This suggestion stinks of bias and you should be ashamed back into the basement for even thinking of this. Killers used to use Ruin is pressure, devs removed that. Now killers slug to force survivors off gens and you want that removed. Go ######### yourself.
Ah, a pot calling the kettle black eh? At least im trying to make it as killer friendly as possible, making me not biased at all. Where you seem to be the type of guy who only really enjoys a game when a 4K can be pulled off.
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1153187#Comment_1153187
Um, where did you get this notion that slugging only starts with 2 people down and one injured? There are situations where a killer may slug with only one person down and three people healthy, it's all dependent on generators left up, location of other survivors, and game circumstances. You don't acknowledge this at all in your post, you seem to think slugging only happens in very specific circumstances which is why myself and other posters are trying to educate you and explain that slugging is a tactic used in a variety of situations, which again, you would understand if you played killer at a high level or at least watched some people who played at a high level.
And again, you don't understand the mechanic at all, you just think the killer is slugging with no rhyme or reason. Don't get me wrong, slug builds exist, but you'll know very quickly when it happens as the killer will be running specific perks for the situation (third seal, knockout, deerstalker). And yes, what you are proposing is a free unbreakable, even worse because in your post you make no mention whether this would be one-time use or not.
You seem fixated on actual slug builds, which again have their own inherent risks. Slug builds rely on actually catching all four survivors before slugs can be picked up by other survivors, it requires all unbreakables to be exhausted, it completely gets destroyed by stealth builds as it includes no detection perks, and it often still deals with gen rush, even worse because they don't usually hook and now they have nothing to show for the slugging when everyone pops up with adrenaline on the last generator popping.
But clearly you're too convinced your idea is the smartest thing ever so I'm not going to keep explaining slugging to you.
And as for your ridiculous defense of OOO, again you miss the mark completely. You clearly don't understand nemesis, the only time the obsession changes is when you are pallet stunned, the obsession will just instead gravitate to jungle gyms and window loops if chased, and stick to call outs if not chased. This is not a fix to the situation.
Again, a "tiny" skill check is not a risk to getting picked up, because if you fail so what? You just try again, and to pretend survivors have trouble hitting skill checks is just laughable if you're above rank 10.
Sorry man, you clearly are relatively new to the game and a survivor main, you dealt with a guy slugging for a 4k so now you think we need to "fix" this problem, we don't, certainly not with a free unbreakable for every survivor as a fifth perk.
Eh, dont watch too many streamers, and people only really complain about it when 2 people get downed. The streamers I happen to watch only really call it slugging when they down 2 people and want to go for more.
"yes, what you are proposing is a free unbreakable, even worse because in your post you make no mention whether this would be one-time use or not."
Again, no. Thats like saying devour hope is a free mori. Or that kicking generators is a free surge or ruin. Or that wiggling is a free decisive strike. Or that a kobe is a free deliverance. Hell, both wiggling and self-unhooking could be compared to it. Wiggling requires a ton for it to be able to work, once every 100 times or so. A self-unhook only works, statistically, once every 25 times. The whole point to the list of requirements I added was to NOT make it a meta gamemechanic. Self-unhooking only really is useful when 2-3 people are hooked, and it punishes you for everytime you fail, let alone that there is no garantuee of it working. That is the same type of downside im intending for this mechanic. That doesnt make it a free unbreakable. And sure, perhaps it should affect the bleedout timer aswell, as unhooking does progress the hook stage quite a lot. But the reason I didnt include the bleed out timer is because it affects the killer a lot more than the survivor.
Besides, nowhere am I stating my idea is the smartest. Nowhere am I implying that too. All I am saying is that there is a very specific gameplay that can theoretically be done with any build, that is extremely boring, extremely disrespectful and a massive waste of time(im including the matchmaking time here, because averagely, it takes 7 minutes to find a match, with that type of slugging, if they pull it off, is at least another 5 minutes wasted and adding another 7 minutes to that before you actually enter a match).
The game is meant to be at the very least fun for both sides, frustrations aside. I have played enough killer to know a lot of frustrations, and I do tend to be chill against 99% of the killers. Perhaps you might think that giving attention to that 1% that is extremely ######### to experience might be a bit of an overreaction, which is fine. But personally, I am trying to help find a way to keep the games enjoyable for both sides, even those 1% of games. Which is why I was asking a bit more input on making this specific thing more discouragable. I dont want wiggling to be too reliable, I dont want unhooking yourself being reliable and I dont want this thing to be too reliable to use. It should be something that should only really work against those specific cases, discouraging slugging like that, because you're actively ruining the game for 4 people.
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@ChainsawCharlie said:
Killers slug for a reason. Many reasons actually. Play killer for a month straight and get to Red ranks, and see the other side, before you immediately call for changes like these. If teammates are slugged to the point of bleeding out, that means they had bad teammates that were too afraid to get that person up.
"Slugging, however, fails to fit any of these catagories. The only risk is the possibility for someone having a certain perk and them crawling away"
See this is where you're absolutely wrong. There's a major risk you'll be facing a team that's actually good at the game, and they'll get that slug up really quick. The risk there is you lose out on hooking somebody, which means you'll have to chase them one more time than needed, had you just hooked them before, which could potentially extend the game. Slugging isn't some easy game easy life tactic. It can easily backfire. Deciding when to slug and when not to is very situational and tactical and depends on many different circumstances. This is why I know you don't play killer much (that and complaining about queue times because killer queues are instant.) If you played tons of killer matches at high ranks you would know slugging is sometime absolutely necessary in certain situations.
Here's an example. There's 3 survivors alive. I'm chasing one and I'm about to down them. Then Discordance goes off. Hmmm so that means all survivors are accounted for. One in chase, two stacked on a gen. I down the survivor I'm chasing. Do I just blindly pick him up and place him on the hook and THEN go to get them off that gen? No. I know that generators take 80 seconds to complete when 1 person is working on it, and it's much quicker when people are stacked. Taking the time to pick this survivor up, and then carry them while they wiggle, and then hook them and THEN going after the gen could likely lose me that generator. What I'll do instead is IMMEDIATELY go to that gen. What this effectively does is gets those 2 survivors off that gen, places one of them in chase, and forces the other to get their teammate up. That means ALL 3 are occupied and unable to work on generators. Excuse me but this is extremely good strategy and you can complain all day, but this is the most effective way to play given the circumstances I've just explained. This is just one example, out of many completely valid reasons for slugging. Again, if you frequently played killer you would know how stupid and detrimental it would be to allow survivors to just get back up.
Again, perhaps I should have been more accurate, as the only times I really have used or have other people seen use the term slugging was in the case where 2 people were downed with a 3rd or even 4th person being on the other side of the map, one or both injured and instead of hooking those 2 people, going to down the other survivors. AKA trying to down everyone. Which really doesnt have that much of a risk, if they dont have unbreakable. The risk of "not hooking someone" isnt really a risk, as you actively choose to not hook someone to down someone else. Thats like saying going to the casino itself is a risk because you might end up spending and losing money. You decide yourself to go to the casino, there never is a risk to accidentally appear in the casino.
Besides, the exact thing you described, wouldnt be something I really consider slugging. Here is more of a case:
2 people are injured, 1 is hooked. 2 people are working on gens while one person(happens to be one of the injured) is going for the unhook. The killer hits the unhooked person(which already makes them a bit of an ass due to the lack of choice there), then they chase the injured person who due to some bad choices ends up downed too. Which alone already slows down the entire game a lot. Then the killer goes to practically camp the people who are downed untill they see someone close and try to hit them, if they run too far then the killer runs back. Still not hooking anyone, even though hooking at this point would realistically be optimal as you would add 2 hook stages and have 2 people hooked relatively close. Then the second injured guy makes a mistake and gets downed, and right before you can fully heal the other person, the killer goes back, hits the person you just healed up and starts tunneling you. There is not a single game mechanic other than perks to even realistically get out of this situation.
Which is why the mechanic I described requires:
The killer having left the premise, being very risky to pull off at the point of even notifying the killer(which would give information that at least 1 person doesnt have unbreakable and that it takes about another 20 seconds for that person to try again), even giving a debuff after it happens to succeed.
Under those circumstances, the mechanic would be pretty much useless in normal gameplay, often even being a killer-sided option. But in that one specific case, it would help. It might be a very rare circumstance, but just because its rare doesnt mean its an excuse for it happening in the first place. Back in the day, it used to be rare for survivors to keep a game hostage, it was about 1 in 50 games that it would happen, yet it was no excuse that killers had no way of forcing survivors to either leave or die, which they now do. It used to be rare for people to use dying light with mori and instantly track down the obsession and kill them(which didnt require a hook at the time), yet it happened so it needed some change. In my opinion, this form of slugging is the next thing that should change. Its not meant to nerf casual slugging, its even meant to discourage people using it in normal gameplay. But in the case of ######### who only care about getting a 4k(coughrussiankillerscough), it would be a last resort.
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@shalo said:
which should be bannable for keeping the game hostage, even though its "just 2 minutes"
Awesome! Now we can ban all those survivors that stay in the exit gates "keeping the game hostage".
Well, you can literally do something about that and force them to leave the premise. Nothing is preventing you from going after someone and even getting a hook out of it. Survivors have no way to prevent you from doing anything about it. Hell, you could even have your fun with it too, gain some extra points from pallets, find the hatch and close it. No insta heals really exist anymore, so they cant heal each other up. And if they fail to escape, you get even more points for it.
Slugging doesnt even get close to comparison to that. There is nothing you can really do against it, you wont even get points for it either.
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@Spirez said:
If you don’t have time to wait 120 seconds every few instances this happens; then you shouldn’t be playing this game.
So according to you, the EGC shouldnt be neccesary because those few times survivors took their sweet time to leave the premise to try and make killers dc was fine? Remember? The whole game mechanic that was added to remove the ability for people to basically keep someone hostage for a few minutes? Realistically, it wasnt that much longer either, at most 5 minutes before survivors finally left the premise, which is only 300 seconds. Great to know you dont mind that then, ill ask the devs to reinstate the old ways.
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@Kwikwitted said:
So first off, you are aware that when slugged another survivor can pick you up right? That's the risk killers take when slugging. When you say something like this:
"Slugging, however, fails to fit any of these catagories. The only risk is the possibility for someone having a certain perk and them crawling away, but any human with ears should be able to easily locate them again as Iron Will doesnt have an effect on the dying state(and Stridor, even though it should be like Iron Will, DOES apply to the dying state), but its another perk that would otherwise be required to make slugging risky"
it pretty much destroys your argument as it looks like you don't understand how the game works.
Second, you seem to have very little clue why killers slug, it's not a "massive reward" as no killer camps a slug, we slug to find someone else to down to usually hook at that point. Killers don't slug because they're trying to be jerks, at least most of the time, it's designed to slow down generator progression as it requires another survivor to get off a generator to come pick you up, now I've occupied 50% of the survivor team doing something other than generators, which gives me some breathing room if generators are going to fast.
Giving survivors essentially a fifth perk as a free unbreakable means killers lose once again, one of the few things they have to slow down generators. Without slugging in any appreciable aspect (as no killer is going to camp you as a slug, so by definition you would be leaving the terror radius and could do a free pick up each time) what you would see is even more killer attrition than you see already.
The OOO discussion is not even remotely close to this. The problem with OOO is not the perk in and of itself, it's that the perk can be combined with SWF and outside communication (not supported in game) to provide information to an entire team as if they all ran OOO, but just one player is.
Bottom line, I'd recommend playing killer or watch some high rank killer streams and you will see more clearly why slugging is a critical part of all killers arsenals, particularly with how generator speeds are currently.
And you are aware, that slugging often really starts with 2 people already downed and at least 1 more person injured? You cant really call it slugging when you down 2 people at the same time with 2 fully healthy survivors unless you have all survivors exposed(in which case, you earned the slug). If you read on, you would have seen me acknowledge that.
Next to that, this mechanic would be practically useless if someone else was there to pick you up, as, like I said, the downsides of being able to pull it off would NOT be a free unbreakable. It's not a 5th perk by any means, its meant to be the slightest chance for a survivor to pick themselves up when a killer leaves them alone on the ground when otherwise having no reason to, other than wanting a 4k. It's easy as a killer to say that slugging sometimes is neccesary, which I acknowledge, while also ignoring that in quite a lot of games, its very easy to slug 2 people with a 3rd one being close enough to not leave the slugged people and possibly having slugged all 3, and instead of hooking those 3 people actually going to look for the 4th person. THAT is where I suggest this "mechanic" being possible and actually worth taking the risk for.
As for the OoO discussion, yes, its annoying, I agree, but there are addons and a perk that would effectively counter that. Yet people demand more. You cannot counter teamspeak. You simply cant. Even without OoO, a full team of SWF can fairly easily communicate where the killer is, what he is up to etc. OoO might give a more accurate description, but even then, a survivor across the map cannot see exactly what the surroundings are. Its a bit more effective to say the killer is moving left or right, but in those cases you have all the reasons to tunnel the person with OoO. Personally, the only real change to OoO that I would give, is remove the ability to see the killer when not the obsession, making Nemesis a pretty strong counter to it. Not even talking about addons or perks that give blindness to the survivor. My whole point about that, was that killers found it ridiculous to require addons or perks to counter 1 perk. Just like I find it ridiculous 1 perk is required to counter a basic game mechanic. Perks should make it a lot easier to counter or they should be able to counter other perks. Which is why I want to add a TON of risks to being able to pick yourself up, like the tiny skill check, the regression and notification if failed(which lets the killer know that they have 20 more seconds before they could try it again), the potential broken status that would be applied if done alone etc. Just to add a teeny tiny chance that survivors can pick themselves up if left alone too long. Because ######### teammates exist.
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@tactic said:
I don’t know man, it kinda sounds like a skill-based kobe..
This would probably make the game miserable for killers at high-ranks imo, it could work for low ranks though, since slugging isn’t really an issue there.
I think the game just needs to move out of this meta and into something new and fresh, not just slugging vs decisive strike
definitely, and yes, it is a skill based kobe, but requires the killer to be slugging in the first place. I dont see it actually making the game too miserable for high-rank killers, as they might as well simply hook the downed survivor instead because there is more pressure from hooking a survivor. It's just the fact that I had a game, where I was hooked, a teammate was injured and another was being chased while injured. Then the killer injured that survivor and decided to walk all the way across the map to go back to me and slug both me and the other team mate. The killer would have very likely won the game anyway regardless if they picked up that survivor and hooked them in the basement(where he was downed), then walk back and probably still be able to hit both of us and be garantueed to hit someone. At least that way, it feels earned. Slugging only feels earned with Haunted Grounds or NOED as survivors actively had to ######### up to be slugged(which, honestly could be taken into consideration, that when you're exposed you cannot pick yourself up). Or ofcourse the extremely competitive 4-man SWF, they also deserve being slugged if the killer can pull it off. But outside that? It never feels earned or deserved.
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Just a post-postage note: feel free to add in anything that would be low risk - high reward. Be it survivor or killer. The only real low risk thing survivor side I can think of right now is entering a locker as you dont leave any sound. Which I think is kinda ridiculous, the realistic reaction should be that a survivor should be ever so slightly audible from outside. And slugging was the only real low risk normal mechanic(ebony mori is also a bit too low of a risk, but I already posted about that before).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1149580#Comment_1149580
No, this is an unfair speculation. I’m also going against 4 man squads that either force constant chase abandonment, or force committing to long chases because the survivors have every tile expertly memorised, and make even just 1 hook exceedingly difficult because they’re untouchable 99.9% of the time.
If you dont have every tile memorised as a killer, then you're basically facing the wrong survivors.
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@XRuecian said:
I actually am really confused about the benevolent emblem. I had a game yesterday where in the end-game screen, i only got 800 BPs for altruism. This would basically mean i did very little altruistic actions, right? But somehow i still got an iridescent benevolent emblem in that game. How come there is a huge discrepency between the emblem and BP reward? I obviously did SOMETHING to achieve iridescent emblem, but whatever those actions were, gave garbage BPs?
as far as I have noticed: its a bit based on oppertunity. You can get iridescent lightbringer from fixing 1 generator in 1 game(if you have been the only one fixing the generator), while other games you can fix 2,5 gens and only get a gold lightbringer. So emblems are at least slightly relative to the situation, which is kinda a good thing, because it means someone who got tunneled most of the game and got mori'd early game still has a chance to get a safety pip if the rest of his team is awful. I never understood why the survivors share their emblem points equally tho. If you're chased 5 minutes in a row, odds are that you cant finish more than 2 generators, meaning you'd probably get silver-gold lightbringer, even though you did take all the oppertunities you got to fix generators.
To be fair, to imply such a relative system, you would need to create a ton of scripts that just keep track of in-game activities. Which can end up creating even more bugs and more likely even lag. So its not feasable, but personally, they should base it on time spend in game, which is not that hard to track. If there are 3 gens left when you're hooked and you fixed 1,5 gens? You should get at least gold lightbringer.
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@Marcavecunc said:
5 afk killers a day? I hardly ever see one a month..
But overexagerations aside, yeah, evader should start at iridescent, makes no sense for you to evade the killer all game and get no points towards that. It should be for both getting chased and not getting found. But then it would be too much to the Unbroken emblem. They just need to pick a different name for that emblem, not sure why they felt the need to change them all.
As for altruism.. not much to do about that one, if you don't heal or unhook, why should you get points towards that? But I guess working co-op actions on a generator could work towards that maybe?
But yeah either way, if they change how evader works, and leave altruism as it is, at least you wouldn't automatically depip anymore. You wouldn't pip, but a safety pip is better than depipping.
Guess you got lucky, past 4 days I ended up having 4-5 killers daily, guessing it was because its in the middle of the ranking season, which means that a lot of boosted toxic survivors reign around in the red ranks, so ofcourse killers who just want to enjoy playing the game will be afk, its understandable. But considering the damage they end up dealing in their deranking streak. I mean, if killers face 4 survivors being afk(which is practically impossible), at least they can force a chase to start by hitting someone and keeping them in your red light, still gaining tons of hunting points. Sure, you probably wont get the iridescent devout, because it requires 9 people being hooked, not 9 hook stages(which is to discourage face camping ofcourse), but you'd still have iridescent gatekeeper, gold devout, gold malicious and chaser which would range from bronze-silver depending if I got my calculations correct or not. Meaning you would never be able to lose a pip as a killer if the entire opposing team is afk. You could even gain one in purple ranks if chaser gets to silver. Which honestly is kinda ridiculous if you think about it.
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Otzdarva tends to be a really chill guy on stream. And when he laughs, he always reminds me of Tommy Wiseau. Sorry if I ruined Otz' laugh for people who watch him regularly.
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1125731#Comment_1125731
I don't FEEL like it shouldn't have an addon or Perk requirement to counter.
It just SHOULDN'T.
Perks are meant, as stated by @Peanits, to exhibit a particular playstyle.
If running a perk to counter another broken mechanic is our idea of counters, then it runs directly contrary to what was stated the intention of perks are. If a killer or survivor for that matter had to account for every mechanic and issue they MIGHT come across, then perks are no longer there to express a particular playstyle. Instead they're there to act as a pretend fix.
OoO is not a basic mechanic of the game. It isn't standard aura reading that I can play around or that I can bite the bullet of in favor of, say, anti-healing, or actually making a build based on what I want to play around. OoO has constant aura reading feedback no downside or requirements. The implied downside is that the Killer can see you, but there isn't a team of killers who gets relayed that information.
Fixing the OoO breaking stealth killers was only part of the problem. Pretending like it actually fixed anything is hilarious to me; the only way its fixed is if its removed from the game or completely reworked.
"If running a perk to counter another broken mechanic is our idea of counters, then it runs directly contrary to what was stated the intention of perks are. If a killer or survivor for that matter had to account for every mechanic and issue they MIGHT come across, then perks are no longer there to express a particular playstyle. Instead they're there to act as a pretend fix."
While I do agree with this conceptually, I also heavily disagree with it practically. Why?
Slugging is currently only countered by no mither and unbreakable. Its a broken killer mechanic and the only way to counter it, is to run a perk. If we apply this to ingame matters, then survivors should be able to pick themselves up regardless of perks.
(semi-)Camping and survivor tunneling is only really countered by Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike(wiggling included on DS, since wiggling is a fairly useless mechanic for survivors). Those are 2 perks that are used against a relatively broken killer mechanic, because there is no other way to counter it. So should survivors gain a moment of immunity when unhooked in the killer's radius regardless of Borrowed Time? Should they get a free decisive strike if they are downed within 1 minute after being unhooked regardless? I mean, if you fully agree to this being basic game mechanics, then sure, im all up for nerfing OoO.
Killers are already complaining on how "broken" unbreakable, borrowed time and decisive strike are. Yet they are literally perks used to counter game mechanics. So if you shouldnt need a perk or addon to counter OoO, then survivors shouldnt need those perks to counter killer mechanics.
But im fairly certain you're gonna disagree with me there.