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@Thatgurl_again said:
Ds itself is fine, no need to change it
The wrong thing is how people use it. People abuse it, dont nerf the perk because it doesnt get rid of the problem. It's SWF who abuse it and make the perk a problem
Its not necessarily a direct nerf tho. Its a nerf based on it's abuse only, while still keeping its current intended use. If you dont get to use DS early game because the killer respected your unhook, the killer probably gets punished for it during the EGC. Giving survivors a healthstate after first unhook would also fix issues that arise when you're on the hook for 2 hookstages. Originally, a killer could slug you, wait out 60 seconds and remove you from the game quite early, with this change, this is much harder to do, especially considering you wouldnt need to dedicate 3 perks to counter that situation anymore. You just need 2.
I only see this as an improvement to the quality game. It no longer punishes killers who respect and make it more punishing on killers who dont respect.
Obviously there are some killer perks that need a change like that, Pop already has been altered slightly, but its extremely punishing to non-sweaty survivors, causing them to play a lot sweatier even though you just started to enjoy the game. Perhaps it should be 50% of current progression instead of 25% of total progression. It punishes people who were rushing a gen while you were hooking someone, while rewarding people who didnt rush gens while you were hooking someone.
But DS needs a change. If it can be abused, it needs addressing. If it was fine, it couldnt be abused so badly.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1746667#Comment_1746667
I made the same point about chasing the person with DS being a waste of time in my comment - we're agreed on that. If you're just accepting the one survivor is getting away no matter what before deciding to eat the DS, though, why not slug them instead? If they have Unbreakable, they might get up, yeah. Worst case, though, this is the same logic you're using for DS; just get it out of the way so they can't use it letter. This way, though, you maintain pressure because the survivor is still incapacitated while slugged, even if they do have UB. Additionally, outside of a SWF, teammates might come to rescue the slug without knowing they have UB, which is just going to waste even more of the team's time. If they don't have Unbreakable, all the better. now they require a teammate to come help them, so you're getting just as much pressure from that slug as you would from a hook.
Intentionally eating a DS is almost never the right play, especially early in the match. One big exception I can think of is a survivor jumps into a locker (especially while healthy, but that's more rare), you don't see any of their teammates in the immediate area, and you know the DS timer isn't close to expiring. In that case, sure, eat the DS, because the alternatives are waiting for the DS timer to run out (which would probably waste as much time as just eating the DS in the first place) or walking away with nothing to show for it. Plus, they could always be bluffing, or if you're really lucky they could miss the skill check.
If a killer does not chase after a survivor who hits them with DS, the survivor will get right on a gen (or potentially start healing depending on the killer, but regardless, that time is not wasted). The only chance a survivor would be occupied for more than 10 seconds if the killer isn't pursuing them is if the killer has stealth and they're forced to be more cautious... At any rate, throughout the entire time after eating that DS, roughly 3 survivors are doing gens; by the time you find and start chasing another survivor after eating the DS, the person who DS'd you is likely either already on a gen, or most of the way healed and about to go get on a gen. There is no reason for a third survivor to rotate if you don't slug or hook a survivor, so eating the DS right away instead of leaving the slug allows the other survivors to keep doing gens.
Think about it this way: If after 30 seconds you went from one survivor down to two survivors injured, that is still the same amount of health states, and now no one requires a teammate to help them as opposed to the one slug you had before. Roughly three people are doing gens throughout these 30 seconds too, as I called out above, unless if you get lucky and you find like three survivors on the same gen or something after eating the DS. Roughly three people on gens over 30 seconds means you're still going to lose a gen because you ate that DS.
If you slug that survivor and go chase someone else, though, best case there's one survivor doing gens (no UB or no SWF means one survivor rotates to help the slug and you chase one survivor) and worst case there are two survivors doing gens (UB & SWF means no survivor needs to rotate, but the slug is still incapacitated for a while you chase one survivor). For this reason, slugging is usually the right play when you suspect someone has DS, even if it turns out they have UB. There are exceptions, but that's basically it.
This is also why I would support nerfing DS; eating a DS punishes the killer massively, and often when they're not even tunneling. It also encourages slugging, which isn't particularly exciting gameplay, and which in turn encourages the DS/UB meta, which is not fun to deal with as killer.
Eh, Ill just make a quick list to address the primary points rather than addressing all the secondary points
"If you're just accepting the one survivor is getting away no matter what before deciding to eat the DS, though, why not slug them instead?" 1. Because I dont want DS to be in the EGC. DS is pretty much a free escape during the EGC, I rather not have any survivor be given an free escape. 2. Because the results are practically the same, except with 1 DS less. The only scenario's I can think off where it makes a difference requires you to be facing an optimal SWF for the results to be different, in which case, you're probably underprepared anyway, or you're aware and brought an ebony mori to avoid any DS in the first place.
"Additionally, outside of a SWF, teammates might come to rescue the slug without knowing they have UB" This is true, but often there will be 1 or multiple survivors coming towards the slugged body in the first place because they know he might get hooked, then decide to switch places in the chase while I'm already chasing the survivor who unhooked them. Then they notice im not tunneling and search the other survivor to heal them up. Except in this case, there is no DS. Unbreakable is pretty much balanced, there is no punishment on killers unless killers try to go for a game-ending multi-slug. Considering I caught that survivor earlier too, they are obviously relatively easy to catch and I can freely slug them the remainder of the game after I hooked them a second time as a means to get other survivors off generators. More often than not, the fellow survivors will try to do ANYTHING to prevent me from hooking that survivor to a point where they practically throw themselves at me for a free hit, which reduces total chase times with harder to catch survivors by a significant amount. Again, you'd have to be facing at (near)optimal SWF teams before you encounter a situation that it leads into a more negative situation than having a DS survive untill the EGC is.
"the survivor will get right on a gen" Only after they have confirmed you're not chasing them anymore. Ofcourse you shouldnt eat a DS out in the open where a survivor can run straight and look behind them to confirm you're chasing them or not. Location, placement and environment does matter. Just as you wouldnt Pop the nearest generator, you'd prefer to keep Pop untill you find a generator that has progressed far enough to get optimal results from it. But there is plenty of situations where you can eat a DS for practically free and remove 1 free escape-out-of-the-realm card. Let alone that it allows you to tunnel that survivor later if it's needed. Because lets be honest, there is a point in the game where you need to remove a survivor from the equation no matter what. But the vast majority of games, at least 80% of the games I play, survivors dont play that tryhard where they instantly go on gens unless they happen to run towards a gen after using DS. And this isnt simply purple or low red rank players either. This is rank 1 survivors vs rank 1 killer gameplay. Ofcourse you adapt your playstyle to counterplay the opposing team, however, there have been at least 20 different scenario's where I could eat a free DS. Some scenarios that are more common than you expect: you see survivors around you ready for a flashlight save, its essentially free to waste their DS because DS gets triggered the moment you pick them up, even if the flashlight save is faster. Meaning you dont get the 5 second stun.
"throughout the entire time after eating that DS, roughly 3 survivors are doing gens; by the time you find and start chasing another survivor after eating the DS, the person who DS'd you is likely either already on a gen, or most of the way healed and about to go get on a gen. There is no reason for a third survivor to rotate if you don't slug or hook a survivor, so eating the DS right away instead of leaving the slug allows the other survivors to keep doing gens." I did address this mostly, but I guess I have to include that you're not focussing your chase towards someone off a hook to eat the DS, you just eat the DS of someone who was freshly unhooked, knowing where their teammate is off to. Meaning at most, 2 survivors are on a generator, with the unhooker possibly on a generator if one was close, but off the generator before they even left any significant impact, while the survivor who DS'd will very likely meet halfway with another survivor, especially considering they are of the belief that I am tunneling them. For 3 people to be doing gens, it would require me to be tunneling. Which isnt part of any set up for an intentional DS. The intentional DS comes to mind when you simply happen to be able to down someone fairly close after coming off the hook while you're on your way and you realize you have the time to do so. It's not like we're just eating a DS willy nilly not thinking of anything else. But the odds of being able to eat a DS because you have the time to do so is much more common than you'd initially think. A lot of people(especially those with a bias towards killers) have the notion that Killers need optimal time management to win games, which is false. There have been plenty of times where I just screw around just for the sake of having some fun and survivors tend to respect it because they get to enjoy the game more. I'm not giving them free wins, I tend to end my games with a 3k, but I dont get serious untill the opposing team gives me a reason to be serious, and in that non-serious time, I get rid of a DS or 2 if the oppertunity rises. Assuming every game will be a sweaty game is simply a bad assumption. Killer is harder to play than survivor, but its easier to win as a killer than as a survivor too. Survivors dont tend to play sweaty early game unless you do.
I'm not saying you're wrong in that slugging is more effective the more sweatier survivors are early game. The thing is that slugging itself is a broken mechanic that should be avoided untill its absolutely necessary. In most games you encounter, there is practically no difference to your winning condition by eating a DS or slugging. Which is also why my design of DS also counters slugging while removing it from the game afterwards. It's not just any idea I had and posted online without thought, I spend quite some time thinking of how to limit its lategame use while keeping survivors inside the game long enough, fully purposing DS' use as an anti-removal perk rather than the botched version it currently is which promotes slugging and camping a slugged body, dropping the quality of the average game. This is currently the best version I could think of that could benefit the quality of game, would reduce early game tunneling to essentially 0(why tunnel when it's guaranteed to work?), punishes people who tunnel someone off a hook for an early game Mori by healing the survivor 1 health state after 60 seconds while they are chased. It fixes a lot of issues DS has against "fair" killers while keeping its strengths against "unfair" killers.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
At this point I don't think its subject to change. Which is a shame because if they made it truly anti tunnel in the way a lot of people recommended it would punish tunneling way harder than the current one and not punish good killers for snowballing too quick.
Well, if it were to be an anti tunnel perk, it should punish killers who tunnel much longer than DS currently does. I'm talking a 35(-10*amount of survivors sacrificed(not mori'd or bled out)) second timeframe in which if a chase starts, the timer gets paused and if the survivor is picked up, stun the killer for 10 full seconds.
That would punish tunneling early game extremely harsh to a point where tunneling is impossible to be a legitimate strategy, while it barely has any effect the more survivors are sacrificed and when the word tunneling loses meaning due to the lack of survivors.
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@Moundshroud said:
I want to start out by saying that this is not bait. This is an assessment. Both as Killer and Survivor, I've noticed an annoying tendency for people to kill themselves on their very first Hook. While I consider this a vast improvement over disconnecting, it is still the path of the coward. I wish there was a nicer way to say it. When I'm playing Killer it isn't too troubling. I know it will cut down on my Emblem potential but beyond that, some idiot has just taken the game from a 4v1 to a 3v1. What is worse, they don't even let their fellow Survivors milk that Hook for a Generator. These are the people you are hurting:
- Yourself. Every time you take yourself out early from a game that has angered you or seems too hard you have robbed yourself of a golden opportunity to learn and get better. If you think that game is lost, you can play it without stress. Try new things out, play it without anything hanging over your head. Why give up a free tutorial. Some lessons are hard, but those are generally the ones you get the most out of. And believe it or not, what you have already decided is a lost or "not fun" game might turn out to be a win and a blast. To put it simply, "you are leaving money on the table."
- You are screwing over the other Survivors in a horrible way. One less person, even someone who was on the hook, takes tremendous pressure off the Killer and puts it squarely on the backs of the others. When you do it early, you might as well be kicking them in the groin on our way out the door. Why would you do this? What kind of low life do you have to be to look at three other people on your team and say, "screw them" with a shrug? You aren't punishing the Killer in any meaningful way if that is your intent. You are hurting them.
- You are hurting the community. The more often this happens, the more it affects the Meta itself. How hard are your teammates going to work to try and get to someone they don't know is even going to wait for them. I just played a game where I watched an OUTRAGED David tea-bag at the Jake who literally sacrificed himself out just as the David fought through hell to get there. It wasn't that the David didn't get there in time. The Jake just shrugged and said, "see ya" and took himself out. There are going to be games where you want that rescue but people just aren't that into risking it all when they don't trust that you are going to do the right thing and wait. I expect, although I have not tested the theory yet, that the rise in people being left to hit the second stage on the Hook is probably in correlation to the people who sacrifice them on themselves on the Hook. Why is Self Care coming back like a Storm? Survivors, who are not in a SWF, have no trust in each other.
There are only three rules that I follow, and think all of you should too:
- Don't cheat either with hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory, and gracious in defeat.
I will defer the point that sacrificing yourself on the Hook "is" finishing the game to the letter of the law. It is a valid choice. However, it is a violation of rule #2 in spirit. You are taking the coward's way out. And if you walk the path of the coward, it can only mean one thing right?
"2. if you start a game, finish it" Suiciding on hook is finishing the game. Just as a Mori does, or as tunneling and camping does.
If you know for a fact you're gonna depip anyway because of the way the killer aggro's you specifically, there is not going to be any reason to remain in the game. It's all a waste of time. The end of the game doesnt affect you if you're sacrificed anyway. It doesnt matter. THAT is the problem. Suicide on hook or DC'ing is the solution to a lot of issues that need to be addressed before people stop suiciding or dc'ing.
Dont blame the players who suicide, blame the devs who refuse to address issues that survivors have been shouting out for months, if not years.
As for the things you mention would hurt people:
- no, I know enough about the game to know what survivors can and cannot do. Unless its a new map and a new killer, there is no reason to stay and "learn" things you cant learn in the tutorial level(yes, there is a tutorial level where you could train moonwalking as a survivor)
- If I suicide on hook, there is a danm good reason I did so and other survivors should find out quickly why I suicided in the first place and if they are smart, they would suicide on hook themselves too.
- No, you're really not hurting the community. The killers who gave the reason for a suicide on hook did. I wouldnt suicide on hook if I didnt have to face boosted brown ranks who reached red ranks thanks to undying and ruin. They are extremely boring, the only reason the matches last longer than 5 minutes is because Ruin cant be cleansed untill Undying is cleansed, but since its essentially a 50/50 coinflip from a solo survivor perspective, odds are fairly big that Undying survives the first cleanse, meaning you have to do 1 generator worth of totems just to get rid of Ruin. If I face a PH who can be looped for 1 minute before they can down me and them being able to keep 3+ gens for 3 minutes, im sorry, but I'm out. The killer isnt fun to loop, the game isnt going to be fun because everytime you get close to finishing a generator the killer will come and chase you off while Ruin regresses it quickly, Ruin or Undying ends up spawning on the hardest to find totem and the worst of all is that the killer can spot you doing the totem before you even started working on it, meaning the killer can get you off the totem before you can cleanse it. Those games simply are not worth my time. That killer is obviously overachieving thanks to an essentially broken combination and its simply not entertaining enough to expect me to spend 10+ minutes on such a dull game.
Yes, there are survivors who suicide on hook for other reasons, but that percentage is so tiny that its laughably small. You're here basically telling survivors to endure 10+ extremely boring minutes that are so boring that even paint is more fun to watch dry because suiciding on hook can hurt other players. Well excuse me, the game doesnt have an option to surrender. So suicide it is.
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@herrik666 said:
I completely agree. I don't think it's ever going to happen but I'd love the devs to remove the option to suicide on hook.
So, force survivors to disconnect, got it.
Face it, sometimes there are simply games not worth playing. Its not worth wasting 10 minutes on a match you're not gonna enjoy. There is no competitive system at play here. As killer you dont lose a pip even if you lose. As survivor you can lose a pip even if survivors end up winning.
As long as toxic killers get free reign in toxic playstyles, people leaving the game early will happen. I rather have played 6 decent games in 1 hour where I dodged 1 bad game, than to play 5 decent games and 1 game so boring, dull and toxic that it makes me quit playing for the day.
AKA, fix all the bad ######### before you remove suiciding on hook, otherwise people will just keep DC'ing instead.
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@DevilSad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1746248#Comment_1746248
I don't think I have a bias for addressing something that is unfair. I can't force Bloodwarden or haunted grounds, but I CAN body block with DS, forcing a lose/lose situation. You shouldn't have to just eat it early because its unfair at any stage of the game.
DS on its own isnt unfair. It's lategame potential is unfair, which I am trying to address, but thats it. You cant force a DS, you require the killer to interact with you to force a DS to work. Just in the same way you cant force a Pop goes the Weasel, that requires a generator with progression and a hooked survivor. Just like DS requires you to be hooked and picked up to work. Any killer refusing to hit a survivor with DS is simply an idiot.
It is 100% bias, because you consider it to be unfair. You have 0 grounds to call it unfair. You know what is unfair? Killers are practically GUARANTEED to have a pip. Meaning its practically impossible to lose a pip. Survivors dont have that luxury, once they get removed, what their team does is irrelevant. Even if all 3 other survivors do all the gens and escape, you still lose a pip. Yet as killer? Even if you lose, you still have a black pip. Let alone the amount of bloodpoints you recieve. DS is far from being unfair. Lets take the maths of someone else and lets assume you chase the survivor you just got DS'd by and assume the survivors are doing a 1/1/1 gensplit. You take about 30 seconds before you down that survivor, meaning you have 90 seconds total of survivors being spread over 3 generators. That is the absolute worst case scenario you can face. But guess what? You hooked that survivor earlier, so you took away 20 seconds of gen progression and now have a second one to remove gen progression. Even in that worst case scenario, you only lost 50 seconds of gen progression at best. Including perks like Thrilling Tremors, Surge, Thana, Dying Light and you lost even less gen progression. This means you have 2 generators with 10 second progression and 1 generator with 30 second progression at most. That is the worst case scenario. Im sorry, but that is laughable to call that unfair.
The best case scenario is them all rushing 1 generator, causing them to not even finish that generator before you downed the same person and hook them again. Meaning 1 gen is finished if they get lucky, but they have 1 survivor that is either dead or dead on hook without having DS to save them, meaning they would have to decide to sacrifice that survivor or tank hookstages for that survivor. Both are in your favor.
DS is not unfair. Pop alone fully counters the effects that DS could have. If you still think differently, you would need to represent your case on why DS is unfair without contradicting yourself. I claim that Pop alone was more than powerful enough to counter a full team of DS, why do you think it got reduced with 15 seconds otherwise?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1746234#Comment_1746234
The stun isn't where the waste of time comes in. It's 5 seconds for the stun. If the survivor just holds W they're going to be about 16m away from the killer (not 20m, but close, since there is a little delay before the survivor gets to start running). If the killer instantly sees the survivor and beelines towards them here's how long it takes to catch up:
4.6m/s*15s - 4m/s*15s = 9m made up by the time bloodlust kicks in, 15 seconds later
4.8m/s*xs - 4m/s*xs = 7m
x = 8.75s
So, it will take the killer 23.75s to catch the survivor that DS'd them. Let's just call it 20 seconds since the lunge means the killer doesn't need to make up the full distance and I'm also not sure exactly how long it takes the survivor to start running after using DS.
So, if the survivor literally just holds W and doesn't loop you, that's 5 seconds of stun + ~20 seconds of chase + ~5 seconds of M1 cooldown & pickup time = ~30 seconds before you're in the exact same position you were when you ate the DS.
You're advocating for eating the DS early, just to get it out of the way. That means that the other three survivors are all probably alive when you're eating the DS. That means that you can expect ~90 seconds of gen progress from the other three survivors while you chase the person who DS'd you. That's more than one full generator. And again, this is if the survivor just holds W and doesn't try to loop you after! A 20 second chase after using DS is really the bare minimum unless the survivor is a potato or you're playing a highly mobile killer like Blight. For this reason, if you eat a DS, it often isn't even worth chasing the person who just DS'd you (unless if you want to tunnel them out of the match - in that case, maybe).
Ironically, if you eat a 5 second DS in the late game, you might have already killed some of the other survivors, so it actually wouldn't be quite as impactful in terms of the gen progress you give up. Even in the late game, though, it's pretty much never a good thing to eat a DS.
That math is assuming there is a straight path AND assuming you chase after that survivor instantly. The intentional DS stun is about getting rid of DS, not about chasing that survivor. Let me include some factors you forgot about:
- the survivor will run away as far as possible from the killer and spend time to confirm wether or not the killer actually kept chasing him or her.
- Other survivors see DS being used and assume that you will be chasing the survivor instead.
- Survivors rarely split gens 1/1/1 to get the full 90 second bonus, odds are more likely its just a 70 second bonus due to a 2/1 gen split.
- All remaining survivors are indeed on gens, instead of doing totems, chests or trying to lure you away.
Intentionally triggering DS isnt about getting the person who has DS on the hook. Intentionally triggering DS is about getting rid of DS on that survivor for later in the game, while focussing on another survivor afterwards. Heck, I've dropped survivors who were in the DS timeframe and either missed or didnt have DS after they were unhooked, because they are confirmed without DS AND are useless untill they are picked up.
So lets redo the maths here:
Depending on which direction the survivor is running and the direction you're chasing. The survivor in question will first run directly to the first loopable tile they can reach, often without looking back because they only have 5 seconds and they need to make the most of it. After those 5 seconds, they will listen for the TR to get louder or softer before doing anything at all. If it gets louder, they will search from which angle you're coming from, if it gets softer, they will start looking for a generator or for a teammate to heal them up. Depending on which direction you went, this can keep a single survivor occupied for 10-30 seconds. Which is 10-30 seconds less of them working on gens. Within 30 seconds, most of the time, you already cleared a hit on another survivor. Meaning you have 2 survivors at least injured possibly 3 survivors occupied if the other one went for a heal and only 1 survivor on a generator.
Triggering DS and chasing the same survivor is a waste of time, which is why almost nobody who intentionally triggers DS chases the same survivor.
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@DevilSad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1746248#Comment_1746248
I don't think I have a bias for addressing something that is unfair. I can't force Bloodwarden or haunted grounds, but I CAN body block with DS, forcing a lose/lose situation. You shouldn't have to just eat it early because its unfair at any stage of the game.
You can bodyblock without DS too. Sure, its riskier without DS if I am injured, but if I have been hooked once and the survivor he is chasing has been hooked twice, its still better to bodyblock. And I agree its unfair in later stages of the game, but early game? Works perfectly as intended. DS early game has the same effect that NOED has lategame. DS prevents survivors from being removed easily in the early game while NOED prevents survivors from removing themselves too early in the EGC.
Considering survivors cant have hex totems without significantly impacting killer gameplay, there are 2 "easy" but fair solutions:
- add in a timer for early game that lasts 3 minutes and gets reduced with 1 minute everytime a generator has been fixed, during this time, DS has free reign, giving killers no reason to tunnel survivors at all.
- Give DS a secondary use that is guaranteed to trigger no matter what with both being a positive impact for survivors while also removing any RNG for killers.
I rather have the second one, because it is a counter to a slug mori, meaning the killer cant leave you slugged to come back and mori you while downing his second target in the meantime.
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@noctis129 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1746182#Comment_1746182
I understand what ur saying and agree w ur points.
But that OP'ness u mentioned is what makes the game fun.
Undying and Ruin games are the most boring matches I have faced. Good killers dont need it, so you're stuck with a bad and/or toxic killer for a very long time. Just like DS and Unbreakable isnt really used by good survivors other than just a deterrant to toxic killers, but mostly used by survivors who simply arent good enough and have to rely on that power to reach higher ranks. Both are extremely boring. There are awful perks that lead to much more fun than the overly overpowered Undying/Ruin and DS/Unbreakable combo's.
At least, as long as those combo's allow terrible players to get good results, that is.
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@DevilSad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1746169#Comment_1746169
Also, locker's aren't technically chase objects, as you'd never run into one in the killers face. The fact that there are so many ways to us this defensive perk offensively should be enough to warrant a Nerf.
Actually, that is exactly how lockers are used. You run into one to avoid a hit, then run into another one to avoid another hit. If you time things well inside the killer shack, you can actually have enough time to vault out of the window. Besides, the Dev's also consider lockers to be part of a chase. Just look at the design of Dance With Me. Dance With Me was released before Head On and Inner Strength were even a thing. There is not a single reason to design Dance With Me to include lockers.
And the best offense is a good defense. Bloodwarden can be used to get a 4k, even though its a defensive perk. Haunted Grounds has massive offensive potential for a perk that is designed to protect your hex totems. Hag's defensive trap placement on a hook is used offensively all the time. Saying its being used offensively is no reason to cause a nerf. Otherwise Bloodwarden needs nerfing too, and we all know Bloodwarden doesnt need a nerf.
So again, your massive killer bias showing here.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1744610#Comment_1744610
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1745794#Comment_1745794
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1745965#Comment_1745965
If you intentionally eat DS, regardless of whether it's early or late, you're probably going to lose the match. You get no hook state, you gift the survivor a free health state, and you lose the pressure you would get by hooking or slugging a survivor. Even eating one DS can be enough to turn the tide of a match, let alone four.
Thats false. I am more likely to win matches where I intentionally eat DS, I am more likely to lose matches where I get DS'd unintentionally. Having information is powerful. Its only a 20 second stun total. Pop Goes The Weasel alone reduces generators with 20 seconds per use. All DS's together are equal to 1 Pop. You get 1 Pop use per DS. Meaning you have access to 80 seconds reduction in survivor objective where survivors only have 20 seconds.
So you're wrong. If you lose because you intentionally ate DS, you didnt use the action of intentionally eating DS in your favour. And it pretty much has to be done early game. 5 seconds early game is extremely short. 5 seconds late game is extremely long. You do not want any DS to survive in the EGC or you lose. If you allow survivors to have any DS in the EGC, you have a guaranteed loss. If you eat all the DS early game, while there are still potential 3-gens in the game, you practically win the game.
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@nea_the_entity said:
I just want to say this but swfs that run ds, unbreakable,soul guard, and dead hard or bt Im gonna have to tunnel and camp cuz I mean wut am I supposed to do.
:(
I'm a rank 9 killer that gets red ranks.
Hit people after they get unhooked and then chase their unhooker, if they have endurance from BT, they are forced to mend, meaning they cannot do gens untill they have mended. If they dont, you can leave them slugged while chasing the person who unhooked them or pick them up to get rid of DS early in game.
The first 2 actions gives people at most 2 people working on gens, because one is mending/slugged while another is being chased. The 3rd option allows you to have a guaranteed person that no longer has DS. The first 2 options slow down the game significantly, but temporarily, the 3rd option allows you to have a survivor you can remove from the game as soon as you need 1 removed, slowing down the game not as significant, but permanently.
I suggest running Thanatophobia with the first 2 actions, because that also slows down survivors who are on generators. Its not the best perk in the game, but it definitely gets value out of every single game where some stronger perks dont always get an equal value out of games.
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@valvarez4 said:
Agree, if they remove the aura reading from B&C
BBQ is fine as it is tho. It's aura reading isnt even close to being the best. Rancor, Bitter Murmurs, Nurses Calling, I'm All Ears all have stronger aura readings than BBQ does, especially considering they cannot be avoided by hiding in a locker. The biggest reason BBQ is being used is free bloodpoints for hooking unique survivors.
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@noctis129 said:
I think DS should be left alone.
Nah, DS is too powerful in late game. It needs the mechanic it has, but currently it negatively impacts killer gameplay. Sometimes you simply have survivors that you need to sacrifice ASAP and having to play around DS with those kind of survivors is simply impossible. If you think DS is fine as it is, go play killer and you'll see how much your gameplay exists around DS alone. It's the exact same reason why Undying and Ruin is too strong as a combination currently, because it forces you to play around Ruin the entire match rather than choosing to play around Ruin. I've even made the hardest killer achievement easily thanks to Ruin and Undying. That alone proves its too strong as a combination. But DS also has that effect on survivors. Survivors have reached originally hard achievements thanks to DS alone.
DS needs to be alterated, no matter how you spin it. The question simply becomes how. I am just one of many people suggesting something that could be a solution, and even though I am 100% biased to my own suggestion, I really think it could work the more I think of the effects it could have in the match.
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@DevilSad said:
Why should I have to "eat DS". That's like saying just run into insidious letherface. It's unfair, so let's fix it. Let's just make DS last 30s, and let it deactivate if you interact with something that isn't a window or pallet.
That is a really bad suggestion tho. Chases last 30 seconds at the very least. 30 seconds is waaaaay too short, and deactivating it when entering a locker is just BS because lockers are chase objects. As for touching a gen, no, it shouldnt deactivate on that too. DS is meant to protect survivors from being sacrificed in the early game. If DS should deactivate after 30 seconds, then Corrupt Intervention should only last 30 seconds aswell, allowing survivors to finish the game in 120 seconds. But you would disagree with that, you probably think Corrupt Intervention should last longer.
So why should killers be protected from an early game even if its really easy to black pip as a killer while survivors are denied such protection even though its pretty much guaranteed a pip loss if you die early? Seems like a massive killer bias if you ask me.
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@prodigy1337 said:
DS is fine. Eat it early, or slug them until it's deactivated. It's not that hard to do either option and this is something you all should be doing as killers anyways. Works for all ranks as well. Prepare for it, anticipate if and plan ahead for it. Use that noodle.
Slugging shouldnt be a solution to a perk tho. Slugging is meant to be used to slow down the game. Slugging being the "solution" to DS is what created the DS Unbreakable combo in the first place, and that combo allows a survivor to essentially be untouchable after their hook. If they use Unbreakable, you still have another moment where you would need to slug to avoid DS. DS is a problem and has a massive impact on the way a lot of killers work. Having to assume every survivor has DS massively impacts the game in often a negative way because you cannot confirm it untill you pick them up. Meaning you have to find out all 16 perks survivors are running to exclude DS, and considering there are a ton of perks you cannot confirm either way, that means its practically impossible to find out if a survivor is running DS. It's essentially RNG in a game where RNG can already be the difference between a win and a loss, that is far too powerful to be essentially RNG.
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@timbologna said:
Just eat the ds early. I've always tried to get it out of the game early because of the all too often egc ds
That is the current strat, but not all games allow this. Sometimes you're in chase with someone else while someone with DS enters a locker nearby. You cant simply exit that chase to eat the DS, because having 2 hooks is better than having 1 hook and 1 DS. Let alone that it pretty much forces you to tunnel early on if you dont want to have any DS at the end of the game, meaning if you dont tunnel, you have potentially 4 free escapes because of a single perk. And that, no matter how you try to spin it, is too powerful for a single perk slot.
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@JPLongstreet said:
I wonder if a killer concerned with this version would just camp a hook until second stage to "play around ds" even to the point of throwing the match.
Well, they would have to camp someone untill they are dead to "play around DS", because it would activate upon the first unhook, not deactivate upon second hookstage. And there are already killers who camp someone to death this way to "play around DS". This change doesnt really change the games of toxic killers, but it does massively improve the game of more casual killers. It allows them to slug someone after unhook for essentially free without the unhooked survivor going on a generator. The problem I see with DS is not on how it works, its on when it can work. DS in EGC is essentially a free escape for survivors(especially if they have Tenacity and/or Hope). Free escapes should not be guaranteed. The only way that DS could trigger in this version is if that survivor hasnt been hooked all game, which is an incentive to hook all survivors once ASAP, meaning the killer aggro is less focused on 1 individual, overall reducing the amount of survivors that get sacrificed before they have had the oppertunity to earn a black pip.
TL;DR: You cant change the way toxic play, you can improve the quality of gameplay for people who have to face against toxic players.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/205540/possible-balancing-for-ds
This version will make tunneling on second hook way too easy.
It sounds like a weird mix between DS and Second Wind
Tunneling on second hook is indeed easier, but if you are such a tunneler, you would tunnel on first hook anyway. Since it guarantees a free heal, it saves time, doesnt force a killer to slug and means the survivor doesnt need to match it up with Unbreakable to counter it.
Essentially DS is to protect survivors from being removed from the match early on. Currently, it can be used as a weapon at the end of the game and it far too strong at doing so. And it is a weird mix between DS and Second Wind, but lets be honest, slugging isnt the solution to DS.
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@ProfoundEnding said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1744526#Comment_1744526
Nurse, Frank, Julie, David, and Felix have already been confirmed to be heterosexual through their lore. The OP is just asking when we'll get an LGBT one.
They've had some in the past, which once again raises the analogous question? Can one believe in the same god when religion is a spectrum? All their past has done is confirm what sexualities it cannot be. Having relationships with the opposite sex excludes homosexuality for example, but that doesnt make them heterosexual. This is easily comparable to talk about the abrahamic god and claiming they are christian, even though they can be jewish, muslim, babist, rastafari, samaritan. They could be protestant or catholic. Its not A=B here. I know its easy to claim you're going to be right because in the majority of cases you would be right, but yet you dont claim someone to be christian without knowing their beliefs yet unless you're an agnostic christian yourself.
There aren't any inclusions in a heterosexual relationship, only exclusions. It's only untill they exclaim they only want to be with the opposite sex that they themselves are confirmed heterosexual. It can still swing multiple ways, encourage those ways, show them why certain characters would be something more than just a person having relationships with the opposite sex, show them how a lore-existing relation that isnt hetero nor sexual can naturally explores sexuality as a spectrum rather than a wall between heterosexuality and anything else. If you want to do that, you yourself have to actually treat it as such too. You adding in a split between heterosexuality and anything else is adding on to the problem of there being a split between them.
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@Kagari_Leha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1744166#Comment_1744166
because i read the lore and there's nothing in it yet, neither in the archives, neither in the ptb, neither in the descriptions of the characters
"there is nothing in it yet"
So? How does that mean there is 0. Do LGBTQ+ people NEED to exclaim their sexuality publically to be LGBTQ+? Like you said, there is nothing in it where they exclaim they aren't LGBTQ+ either. Meaning they arent of any sexuality yet. They are all asexual characters. Sexuality is a spectrum, asexuality is the default for people who dont have their sexuality expressed. Just like atheism is the default for people who dont have their religion expressed. Claiming they have to be heterosexual is like claiming they have to be christian. Why is it then that you think their religious beliefs or lack their off are diverse but they aren't diverse in sexuality? Is it perhaps that you are biased and assume everyone is against you because you've experienced a few times before who were against you?
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@AhoyWolf said:
It's funny, but why that bait title?
Its new, its meta, its done by survivors. How is it a bait?
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I dont see an issue with this
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@JesterClown said:
Pretty self explanatory title. We talk alot about how dbd should add a casual mode. Entirely agree with the idea. But do you guys think survivors will stop playing sweaty builds. Cause from all ranks there are sweaty/ trying too hard survivors that run the usual suspects, ya know, ds, dh, adrenaline etc, in ranks that they would have no reason to run those builds in. I wanna believe survs will run something like detectives hunch or healing builds but from my experience I lack faith in survivors creativity.
Assuming killer sweat builds dont exist at all, even though half the games I face are sweaty killers
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@Adeloo said:
I mean like Trapper she suffers from RNG.
Her traps can be deadly or removed on the first try. so the unfairness is kinda balancing between the survivor side and the pig side ;)
Its not really RNG tho. Its predetermined and cannot be changed. The keys for each beartrap are already placed in a cage and linked to the beartrap in the exact order they are placed on survivors. Essentially its the Monty Hall problem in game. Except you dont get to see the second goat, ever.
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@AnnoyingNarrator said:
It is a known fact that some maps in dead by daylight favors one side or the other. That being said, I hold the opinion that survivor-sided maps are worse than Killer-sided maps. I believe this because Survivor-Sided maps tend have loops or aspects that are really unfun and limit the options that both killers and survivors can do it be successful. Some killer-sided maps have this problem too, but they tend to have it to a lesser extent. To prove my point, lets go through some maps
Haddonfield
This map is bad, really bad. If you were to ask me off the top of the head what the biggest problem with it was, I would say it is the fact that there is only one way into each houses second floor, the stairs. Why is this a problem? For starters, it means that as a survivor, there is only one path I need to watch out for against the majority of killers. Stealth killers really struggle on this map. On top of that, even if you do get up there as a killer, the survivor can usually just jump out of a window and loop you around the house. Every time I play this map, I always gravitate to the exact same general strategy each time because the map limits what some killers can do. That is bad for both sides, as half the fun playing against a ghost face and killers like him is trying to find out where he is.
Ormond
This map is also very bad, but for different reasons. What is the problem with it? Well as many will tell you, it is too heckin big. The killer shed is so disjointed for the main map and the gens so far apart, that it is almost impossible to hold gens unless you are playing a high mobility character. That is already bad enough, but to make matters even worse is that surrounding the main building there is a dead zone, that makes it very easy to track people, both killer and survivor, who are leaving the building. Combine this with some pretty nasty tiles, and you have a map that makes me want to DC. But why is this a bad thing for survivors? The reason is that, once again, many killer powers do not work effectually on this map. The fun of playing survivor (in my opinion) comes from outsmarting killers and overcoming their powers. So being able to just be able to run away, knowing that if the killer chases me, by the time they are done multiple gens could be popped even if I get downed 15 seconds, kind of ruins the fun for me.
The Game
This map is interesting. The map favors killers due to its small size and multiple drops that allow a killer to navigate quickly and come from unexpected angles. As a survivor, the way that each room is a box limits your options going from loop to loop and makes it easier for killers to track and mind game you. There is also the fact that one of the gens is a literal death trap that if you get stuck in there against a killer like bubba or a blood fury oni, you are going straight to the basement. But, even though map favors killers, I find that as a survivor, there are ways to adapt to it. I can turn myself into a bull matador and send some poor Billy to the lower level, I can bait a killer into thinking that I went further in a loop before sneaking past him through the door, and so on and so on.
Conclusion
The reason why killer sided maps are more fun is because the force the survivors to have to adapt and try new tactics, while maps like Haddonfield allow a survivor to do the exact thing each time without facing much of a threat unless they are facing a killer like spirt and nurse. I don't think any map should blatantly favor a side, but they should focus fixing maps that are survivor sided because they tend to be rather boring to play for both sides.
As many people pointed out, your conclusion is very biased. There are a lot of ways to play around survivor sided maps. The biggest thing Haddonfield has, is that it can have up to 3 generators that can only be fixed by 1 person. There is maybe 1 4 man gen, and that generator spawns in the corner of a map where you dont want to be as killer anyway. The problem with haddonfield is long fences. You can mindgame a survivor out of a building, but you cant mindgame a fence. A fence is literally W simulator and that means for every 10 seconds in chase, you're only gaining 4 meters. While in a building, you can force a survivor to jump out early, cutting them off with a substantial amount. Claiming survivor maps need change the most is kinda showing a lack of game knowledge there. They are more boring to play on, just as killer sided maps are more boring to play on. That doesnt mean one is a priority over the other. Killer average kills is still higher than 2 on all maps. Considering a killer "loss" is 0-1k and 2k being a draw, that means averagely, killers win on every map more than survivors do.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/202353/survivor-sided-maps-vs-killer-sided-maps
I disagree.Killer sided maps are pretty much just as boring.
Look at the amount and size of deadzones maps like wretched shop and shelter woods can spawn.Survivors can't adapt to those kind of deadzones.They make it way easier for the killer just like survivor sided maps with a lot of safe loops make it way easier for survivors.
Both needs to be adressed
Killer sided maps are really fun if pallet rng is survivor sided. Survivor sided maps are fun if the pallet rng is killer sided. However, 2/3rds of the time, pallets are neutral or killer sided on killer sided maps while also 2/3rds neutral or survivor sided on survivor sided maps. Making 2/3rds of the games on those maps just awful. Killer sided maps need at least 1.5 times the amount of pallets they averagely spawn(without creating infinites, but that can be easily be prevented by replacing some windows with pallets instead) while survivor sided maps need averagely about 1.25 less pallets(otherwise you create too many deadzones, which is equally bad)
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@Hex_Stalk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1717131#Comment_1717131
Popping nearly two gens in the first couple minutes. What I get from that is "We wAnT oUt Of dA MaTcH NoW" Like seriously how is it any fun. I can handle rushers relatively well but it's the most boring brain dead game I could imagine. Chase this person, down them, gen pops. Chase next person, down them just as quickly as the first, 2 gens pop. Rinse and repeat. I don't see how it is fun having little to no interaction aside from sticking to gens like a fly on a cow pie. It isn't a tournament.
Popping 2 gens in the first couple minutes is normal though. You cant exert pressure over an entire map(unless you're one of those boring undying+ruin players who think that combo is fine). Its NORMAL to lose 2 generators early on. If you have so much map pressure that no generators can pop within the first couple of minutes, then it will be a really boring game for survivors too. The game doesnt really start untill your gen patrol area is limited and you can exert pressure while chasing. Odds are even quite large that the gens that did get popped are in an area you do not want to patrol as a killer anyway. I dont consider anything a genrush untill 4 gens are popped within 5 minutes time, and if they are capable of doing 4 gens within 5 minutes, I am the one who has terrible map awareness.
Or in short: YOU can control which gens get popped early on to make it harder on the survivors. You can punish survivors who dont strategically do their gens very harshly with a 3 gen.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705098#Comment_1705098
The killer addon is a seasonal addon, meaning after the event, you cant use it. Unlike the survivor addons.
That was my point. The survivors dont really gain that much advantage with their addons, they never did. The killer being able to burst a large distance is extremely advantageous. Therefor, the killer addon IS the event mechanic, where the survivor addon is simply just an addon.
I mean, even the speed boost addon requires you be injured in the first place and consumes the entire item(even though it doesnt say it will consume the item) while leaving a clear trail behind to where they are running, even if they are walking. Making it easier to track for killers. The killer addon allows you to cut off a significant distance with minor drawback. Cutting off survivors is the strongest killer mechanic in a chase, being able to cut off survivors even harder for essentially free reduces the chase massively.
Normally survivors gained a secondary objective for the event to slow down games for survivors, now there is an addon that speeds up games for killers. Essentially having a similar effect on how those games go. Having that addon available all year would require the devs to overhaul survivor basic abilities, while the survivor addons literally dont do anything significant that perks cannot already do.
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@CheeseAnton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705294#Comment_1705294
None of those, this is a serious suggestion (the second one).
Oh, you mean like, prestige 1 automatically has the second perk slot opened from level 1? I dont see how that would help as you wont have many perks available to use.
Or adding a 5th perk slot? Additional slots would completely break the game tho.
I mean, my interpretation was like "only give players like 15 perks on p0 and 30 perks on p1", which is a terrible troll suggestion if you were serious with that.
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Got the same, 1st match 5k points in deviousness, got the full 5k, 1 day later after an update, 3 games, totalling 20k bp, only gained about 2k points.
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@CheeseAnton said:
Now, you know how they lock perks by levels (for survivor and killer you unlock perk slots like this: 1 perk default, 2 perks at level 5, 3 perks at level 10, and 4 perks at level 15)
But what if they made the number of perks you have related to prestige? boom now everyone wants to prestige their characters.
I see nothing wrong with this.
Is this critique on me or just a troll addition? Because with modern day internet users, thats actually hard to tell.
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Have you ever seen how the community deals with the DBD characters? There is no need for the devs to force in anything upon their characters. The only thing the DBD devs confirm, is ethnicity. Thats all they need to do. Forcing any sexuality on their characters makes this game objectively worse.
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@AGM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704937#Comment_1704937
If a hook bombing survivor becomes broken, and you down them 5 seconds later (as you usually will), did you really get any value out of the perk? Brokenness aside, it's not like they would've been able to complete a heal in that time, as you're still chasing them, so at that point, why use the perk?
This perk is structurally flawed; not only are protection hits fairly infrequent, but even less frequent are protection hits that result in the killer gaining anything of value while using this perk. One other benefit of my proposal is that since unhooked survivors become broken (if the killer is more than 32m away), they can't be healed, encouraging the unhooker to take a protection hit for the unhookee if the killer returns, thus feeding the primary effect, as opposed to "herp-a-derp I sure hope these survivors play hyper-altruistically."
I mean, if survivors stay on gens, do you get value out of ruin? If survivors spot noed and take it down before you were able to hit, did you get value out of it? if survivors split gens efficiently(thus never being a 2 man on a gen) do you get value out of discordance? The broken status is to prevent them healing up, and a lot of skilled survivors heal up during the chase if they can. Its literally one of the only reasons why Self-Care is almost as common as DS is in high ranked games. Forced Penance is a good perk, that you dont happen to encounter games where it could be useful doesnt really impact that.
I rarely use DS myself because I never got any value out of it(I ran it last week for 50 games just to prove why I dont run it, only got to use it once on a tunneling camper). Does that mean DS needs get another benefit? I mean, just like you, I get into games where it doesnt seem to have any value at all.
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@bjorksnas said:
he has a skill ceiling of nurse but is only A tier, which is fine but what makes up for the fact is that he is fun to play
Only A tier? Man, he can do things even a Nurse cannot: forcing hits practically anywhere. Blight has a higher skill cap than Nurse, and I am genuinely scared for players who will reach that kind of skill with Blight because other than using Dead Hard, I cant think of a way how I can counter that. I tend to learn killers quite quickly and get the hang of their ability tho the point of being able to get 4k's, even with the worst killers. With Blight, I havent been able to learn his skill to the point of even getting a single 4k without having to rely on NOEDs or Mori's. But the times where I was able to guess right and be lucky with my bounces a few times in a row, there was nothing the survivors could do to prevent being hit. Even with a Nurse, they could fake out twice in a row to gain distance, but with Blight? They could have faked out but I would have been next to them within less than a second.
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@BillyMain77 said:
They should just add the feature that you can sell your unwanted items for a lower amount of BPs once your p3.
Would give people a real reason to want to get to p3 besides the bloody clothes.
I actually rather see a sacrificial-like mechanic, where you offer 3x brown addons for 1 yellow, 3 yellows for 1 green, 3 greens for 1 purple and 3 purple for 1 iridescent. You get more than enough brown addons to essentially never run out of them if you rely on them, but there are some higher tiered addons(trapper bags for example) that are almost neccesary to a killer's kit while there are tons of brown addons that are simply worse versions of yellow and green addons and never get used anyway.
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@JesterClown said:
There are now basically 0 things survivors can say about counterplay to 4 survivors absolutely destroying a gen. Pop is hit, discordance is likely a dead perk because of that stupid nerf. Now when a sweatsquad swf with prove thyself and brand new part pounds a gen in under a minute, I dont wanna hear every survivor come and say “shouldve been running discordance”. The most infamous counterplay to actual gen rushing is now dead.
Discordance is a circle with a diameter of 194 meters, unless you're on the complete opposite side of the map of the biggest maps, you're not gonna notice a difference. And if you're on the complete opposite side anyway, you wouldnt be able to reach a generator on the opposite side of the map before its finished anyway, even giving survivors enough time to walk away to safety before you get close, wasting your time.
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@lowiq said:
Mechanically easier killers have higher win rates. Which is also why you see Freddy / Doc / Bubba at the top. It means people that don't main these killers can easily play a few games and win without learning a ton of mechanics.
Another way to look at it is, if you have someone who doesn't main huntress and plays her for one game, that player will probably get a 0K, which significantly drives down the huntress average. Whereas, someone who only plays Freddy once probably still gets a 3/4K.
Also pig is very good at slowing down gens, which can be devastating in solo queue. Probably also why Freddy and Doc are at the top.
I wouldnt say pig is mechanically easier, I think she's one of the harder killers to use to gain hits. Best you got is her undetectability, but even that is far from good compared to other killers with undetectability because she gives away she's uncrouching decades before she can actually hit you. Besides, mechanically seen, nurse is also much easier. Its literally just hold m2 longer to go further.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
Seriously, have you all never played the previous events? Before, you have alternate objectives such as gathering serum which could then be spent on cosmetics. Now, you have 3x Rift challenges that allow to get a measly 4k BP, and that's it aside from pumpkin gens and hooks. Replacing a fun, engaging event currency with a credit card is disgusting, and BHVR knew full-well what they were doing when they made it. This "apology" is just a response to attempt to appease people when their shot at skimming players for more money didn't fully pan out.
This is the same thing with Sets, they started out slow and continued to ramp them up when they saw they were profitable, if people happily accept a few shards and BP as compensation for the gutting of a previously enjoyable time, then the game will continue to deteriorate into a MTX hellscape.
This is a horror-esque game, yet COD and WoW have better Halloween events than it.
btw this is a company that rakes in money off of skins and the rift already, they aren't some 4 man dev team that deserves to be treated like Jesus Christ himself.
Lets be fair, the killer addon is the new mechanic this event. Which honestly is fine. But they should have given an event unlockable that they gave away for free next year.
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@Dead_By_Devs said:
How will you explain your way out of this? Not only is the blight serum bad on many of the killers, its also not usable after the event, while the survivor items are kept until used.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GR9A3MFKD61F/image.png
The killer serum is actually effective and changes the gameplay. The survivor items are simply either reskinned existing items or they give the killer an advantage(its much easier to trace a survivor with the blighted trail behind them than one without).
People claim that the stun on the dash is worse than not dashing at all, but those people havent been dashing in straight lines, let alone that the killer can hit during the dash, negating the stun.
Essentially, the answer is that the killer addon is much, much stronger than the survivor addons and make a lot of killers a bit scarier to face during the blighted event because the rest of the event is 0 effort.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
Im honestly done playing this game for survivors to have fun. Hits continuosly misregister and survivors continually talk alot of smack. Im just on ehooking everyone until this is fixed
Honestly agree with you, it seems like killer autoaim has been changed with the last update. Its almost neccesary to kill a survivor early with the amount of missed hits because of autoaim pushing you into a wall that you aimed to curve around.
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@RizeAki said:
No just stop quitting. Play the game end of discussion. If not then quit entirely if you don’t like the game that’s what a lot of us did.
Thing is, in a lot of games, you have the option to know whether a game is going to be casual or hardcore before you start the game. DBD doesnt have that. DC'ing is literally the only available mechanic to leave an unfun matchmaking. This isnt a ranked game, this isnt a super competitive game, its classified as a party game. Meaning that the game is intended with fun above competition.
As long as there is no mechanic to surrender early without ######### over your team or ruining the fun for the opponent, dc's and suicides on hook are all we have. A dc is actually the more "respectable" way to quit for your teammates, because at least you kept the killer distracted and bought you some time while a suicide on hook gives the killer a reading to where you are.
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I think m1's in general is the most skillful part of being killer. It requires a ton of mindgames and prediction skill that isnt always required with m2's. Which, IMO, technically makes Myers the hardest as he starts out slower. But including all perks and addons, I'd say any 110% killer(excluding Spirit) have the hardest time getting m1's
But talking about m2's, I think Blight is the hardest one to get a hold on for getting hits overal.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1681982#Comment_1681982
You said average. That's peak.
The peak was 77k, if you look at the graph, the line tends to stay around 50k. Sometimes above, sometimes below, but its been a solid 50k average. The 15k drop has literally been last month when Undying+Ruin became killer meta.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1681978#Comment_1681978
Funny how my friend and I manage to cleanse both Ruin and Undying and escape quite regularly. Hell, sometimes we don't even bother, we just rush gens and GTFO, because Ruin literally does nothing until you let go of a gen.
Which is why I stated 1v1 killers specifically. A trapper isnt gonna get much use out of Ruin, but a Doc or PH definitely will
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1681970#Comment_1681970
I just checked and not only was the average player count not 50k before Blight, the average player count has never been 50k in all of DbD's history. Also, for these past few months DbD was still riding the "high" of the Silent Hill chapter.
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.Pretty sure this states that the all time high was 77k
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@[Deleted User] said:
How are people on this thread justifying DCing? A tip for these people: if you find yourself frustrated and DCing frequently during matches for whatever ######### reason, GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME and stop ruining the trial for the other 4 players.
as long as killers who run undying and ruin together, dc's are justified. Survivors cant progress in those games. Strong 1v1 killers had one weakness: map pressure. Ruin alone helped spread the pressure into a fair match as 1v1 killers can easily scare people off generators and force survivors to spend time in finding the totem.
Undying and ruin literally removed that weakness completely. That is a gamebreaking issue no matter how you look at it. We play games for fun too. Its not fun if 80% of the matches play out the exact same unless you happen to get lucky and find undying first. Its removing all the skill required from killers to a point where green rank killers can play against red rank survivors and get 4k's because the undying was impossible to find.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1681341#Comment_1681341
And that means, that killers should also start to dc if they see something they dislike?
Ok, then prepear yourself for a killer dc then:
-He sees the wrong survivor perks in the game.
-The wrong survivor. (I know they are just hulls, but that David? No sir!)
-A loop takes to long, to catch up to a survivor.
-He guess to have run into a swf, or at least a good coordinated team.
-If gens firing up too fast.
-If he gets not enough survivors on a hook in a time he thinks that they need to be.
-The wrong map.
-Keys.
-And many totally acceptable reasons (for him at least...).
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I have years deal in the internet with toxic people as moderator and admin and the first thing I have learn is:
If someone starts doing something new toxic in a community - what hasen't done by someone before - you need to shut him down. Fast. Very fast.
Before he becomes a role model for other people.
If you do it on this way, the community will thank you and you have just a small circle of people that are mad about you.
If you do it not... Then the first becoming a role model for other people and this toxic behavior spreads like a disease. You are then in a battle that you can only win if you kick or ban more people as you would have need before, if you just had act right in time.
Behavior had not act right in time. Instead they had done what the first toxic guys wanted. Step by step. Letter by letter.
As would have someone placed a gun on their heads.
Now they are in a situation where they have to kick and ban many people. They could have avoid that, if they had listen to this time to the calmer part of the community, but as you can see... They haven't.
TL:DR I am happy that they finally throw the trash in the trash bin, where it belongs.
That is my sight to it as a former long time admin (around 10 years) and moderator (around 1 year) of different smaller to bigger communitys (one even bigger as those forums seem to be [don't know the numbers and can only go after what I see here]).
I know that my words are hard, but that is it, what you have to be in such situations.
Thing is tho, killers are pretty much guaranteed to gain BP and at least a black pip every single match even if it was a bad match. Survivors dont have that luxury. All survivors really have is the fun a match can be, and if a match looks like its going to be a super boring one(aka undying/ruin) or a super quick one(mori's/tunnelers), what else is there to play for?
Aka, killers will end up progressing quite a lot even if its a bad game. Survivors only end up progressing if its a good game, the only other reason is fun.
I mean, there is a HUGE reason as to why the average players online is 35k now when prior to Blight it was 50k averagely. Either Ruin or Undying will need a quick fix, and personally, im up for reworking Ruin as pretty much all other hex totems need Undying. DS and Unbreakable is a relatively boring combo sometimes, but its needed for previously mentioned reason: survivors dont progress. Killers dont need undying and ruin together to have a decent match most games. If there isnt a ds in the match, odds are that killers will tunnel are increased by 1000%.
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@Jill10230 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662619#Comment_1662619
Tss lol
1: The survivor has a third person view, which gives him the best view of his environment! He also has skills (which * the game), they are 4 survivors (3 execution phases).
2: Predicting... the Spirit is based on the surprise effect, how can we make this style of play predictable?
3: You can see the direction of the nurse for sure, and that's why it's totally predictable, for ranks 1, right? Show me a video of 3 games where you win with the nurse and we'll talk about it then! Nurse is not a surprise killer.
4 : Gorgon ? Gorgon is a weak killer who doesn't stand a chance against a good loop, his portals are easily destroyed and he can't even set his traps the way he wants. Gorgon is not a surprise killer.
5: What would be the right thing to do? We're in a "horror game" but the killer has to overcome 50k obstacles to catch a survivor... there's nothing fair, nothing logical, in fact !
6 : Stay still and pretend, Spine chill (yes you know the perk that kills sneaky killers), it's a perk accessible to everyone who can counter the Spirit for its "false phases" ... I do it, why not you?
7 : You mix all the killers with the Spirit... are you going to mix Gorgon and Pig, or Hag and Nurse, Trapper and Freddy ? Better to take another killer if it is to be visible.
8 : No, you can't easily turn back, because the power ends quickly and some loop prevents you from passing... the hut for example, all those loops of * that ruin the game !
9: The comments I make?LOL, I was Ghostface before, but the rush gen made me pass on Hag, Hag is contrabable to the higher rank, I passed Nurse, then I passed on Spirit Friday! 4 k ?I need BP like everyone else does... But the difference between me and the others is that when I don't need BP I don't kill anybody.
10 : You waited for his last nerve (1 year or more ago) to come and cry on the Spirit, after Billy and Nurse... I admit, it's strange how people can be !
11 : I can't hear the survivors, sound problems...................
Ps: About Billy.. a little one shoot, super fast, well smoked perks... the nerve will have been useless he remains the best killer of the game. But we wouldn't know what to say, because he is already "nervous". I'm not worried about the Spirit, if they nerve the Spirit they'll have to give him something in exchange and it will probably be in the same kind as Bubba... better, since the Spirit is a strong basic killer.
I give up.
- Yes, it gives the largest view, but that makes it also much more likely to miss detailed movement. The skills during chases are mindgames only, interactibles are essentially RNG and having a killer that can be fast enough to bypass structures so that mindgames can essentially be useless, the only thing that's left is lucky coinflips. As for the 3 stages, thats only true if survivors dont make mistakes. Its very easy as a survivor to be spotted running towards a hook, which a Spirit can use to be there faster and chase someone near the hook, guaranteeing 2 hookstages for 1 hook. If you only got 1 hookstage per hook, you would have a good point. But there also is a timer, and that timer can run out. The only counter to that is Kindred. But I've been excluding Stridor so I am excluding Kindred too.
- "the Spirit is based on the surprise effect, how can we make this style of play predictable" Wraith is based on the surprise effect, Pig is based on the surprise effect, Ghostface is based on the surprise effect, yet all of them can easily get hits in chase by using their power properly. The only reason those killers arent the strongest, is because they have some secondary power issues that do need to be fixed, but none of those fixes include "make them invisible to guarantee a hit". They need some slight speed buffs or some slight sound delays and they would be able to utterly destroy, any soundbug on Pig already makes her a monster. Spirit is on the opposite side of that spectrum. She is too surprising. Moving grass is fine, it can even be used to mislead survivors.
- Nurse is a surprise killer tho, she can blink to a location outside her terror radius. Thing is, if you have slight vision of her, you can predict her coming. As for the more reasons I included Nurse. She literally is the strongest killer in the game right now, and she has more counterplay than a Spirit has. And it actually would be fine, if there was a killer that could guarantee hits, but it would need to be weak in all other aspects. Spirit is far from the weakest mappressure in the game. People claim she doesnt have pressure, but her ability exists, she can move 1.5 times faster than most other killers that allow easy gen pressure.
- Again, that was to point out that killers MUST be predictable in some way. Spirit is not. That is the issue.
- So? There is a difference between giving survivors less obstacles/loops to work with, as with Nurse, Freddy and Hag. And giving them not a single obstacle to relyable use against a killer. PH also had the issue where he could make pretty much any obstacle useless against him, and guess what they did? They changed him. There is alternative against Freddy, Nurse and Hag, there is no alternative to Spirit.
- Oh yes, include a perk to counter a killer. Sure, I'll add in Stridor, an easy to access perk. Or NOED, that makes killers like Spirit even worse to face. Or let me put in Undying and Ruin. Perks should not be the answer to any killer. Perks are meant to aid, not to fix.
- I dont mix killers with the Spirit, I am comparing Spirit to other killers. If you have an issue with that, then I dont know what the ######### you are trying to argue.
- I played Spirit a couple of times, you have more than enough time to turn back. EASILY more than enough time. As for the killer shack, loops like that are neccesary to the game. Remove loops like that, and you need to reduce the gens from 5 generators to 4 generators or give survivors an additional health state. And yes, some maps its easier to get hits while other maps make it harder, but guess what? This isnt a game where survivor deaths are the only outcome. If 4k's are possible, 4 man escapes need to be possible too. You're waaaaay to focussed on the killer side of the game. But here is the thing: Either spirit needs a nerf, or survivors need a buff, and if survivors need a buff, all other killers need a buff accordingly. If Spirit is the only anomaly, that simply means she is the one who needs a nerf. I have never seen a 4 man escape against a Spirit unless the Spirit was throwing, which would be fine if I never saw a 4k on Spirit either. 4 man escapes are literally impossible against a Spirit, that is a problem whether you agree with it or not. 4 man escapes need to be practically possible against a Spirit, or 4k's need to be much harder for Spirit.
- You dont need a 4k for good BP tho. Heck, you dont even need a 4k to get max BP. So that excuse is BS. As for Hag and Nurse, they are hard to counter if you're decent with them. You claiming that red ranks counter them easily is basically saying that you're not good enough with them to face red ranks. Which is fine. Nurse needs a lot of practice and Hag needs a smart brain for her traps. Hag also needs a bit of a nerf. But that is a whole other discussion. Nurse already got the nerf she needed and is actually my personal standard when looking at a Killer's power to see if its healthy in the current meta. Spirit and Hag definitely are not. Freddy barely not, needs some slight adjustments to be better for the game(a slight slowdown when placing down traps or pallets would actually be enough).
- Spirit got nerfed, but not enough. Billy needed a nerf, even though they overnerfed him at first. Bubba's rework actually needs a slight nerf since they buffed both options at once(faster speed up AND longer chainsaw phase) when he only needed a buff in one of the 2. He is much more accessible for more people now, but the issue is that he can be too easy to play against people of higher skill.
- That's a you problem, not a problem with the rest.
Billy needed a nerf since he didnt need addons to perform well. Any killer that performs well against red rank players without needing any addons is a killer that needs nerfing. Spirit is one of the only killers that remains that dont need any addons.
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@arcnkd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662639#Comment_1662639
Ebony should be kill all survivors that has been hooked twice in the match.
Green should be kill any two survivors that have been hooked twice.
Yellow should be kill any single Survivor that has been hooked once (no change, because it is not nearly as oppressive as the others).
Mori's should not be 'secret' because it is just pointless when the only other secret offering from killers is shrouds - either no secrets; or all killer offerings should be secret, pick one side or the other instead of 'flagging-without-flagging' the use of a mori.
Use of a mori should automatically refund all bloodpoint-based offerings used by a Survivor due to matches being cut considerably shorter and the offerings usually ending up being 'wasted'.
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On the flip side - Keys should have a chance to break upon attempted use so the Hatch becomes a risk-reward situation instead of a free-escape.
They should only spawn on bloodwebs.
Only exists as the Skeleton Key at iridescent rarity.
Have no means to keep the item after matches.
Destroy themselves when dropped from a sacrificed player
and never spawn in-game from chests so killers can always prepare for a key to be in play instead of someone finding one mid-match and getting a free escape because of RNG.
"Ebony should be kill all survivors that has been hooked twice in the match."
Problem: you can hook a survivor for a 3rd time and be done faster, making ebony absolutely worthless.
As for Ivory and Cypress, they are actually fine as is. Ivory has the possibility to screw 1 survivor over immensely, sure, but viewing the game as it truly is, its balanced. Cypress might need a buff where it can be triggered on anyone during the EGC(giving survivors a reason to run outside), because killing the last survivor standing is heavily RNG.
Issue with your view on keys, is that keys already are quite balanced. Skeleton keys definitely should allow an entire team to escape for essentially free, because if all 5 gens are finished and you havent killed anyone, its on you. Even if you have an endgame build, those are risky AF in the first place. Same applies if 1 person died and they need to finish all 4 gens, the longer you wait to kill someone, the easier it is for them to get a key escape.
The purple key should only open up the hatch for a short time, and have the potential for a 2 man escape at best(opening the hatch with 2 people left literally leaves 1 survivor remaining), but otherwise closing instantly after the user escaped. And I agree that skeleton keys shouldnt be found in chests, but purple keys do have a place. As for destroying themselves, thats a bit of an issue. Mori's are a threat to every single survivor, so keys NEED to be a threat from every single survivor.
As for why purple keys need to be possible to be found in chests(especially under the 1-man escape only rule): there are plenty of times when gates spawn too close to each other where there simply is no escape possible, while if they spawn to far from each other, the killer still has a chance to find you and get a kill. This means that the EGC is simply RNG for the final survivor, when the killer already won, having some RNG for the killer aswell is nothing but fair. Keys are already extremely rare to be found, and if you remove the iri key from the loot pool, that means that other items are also more likely to spawn in.
As for no means to keep the keys, I would agree, if it wasnt for the fact that I have 50 ebony mori's on a killer that I tried my hardest to avoid Mori's on, while only having 20 keys total on my main survivor where I grab every single key that spawned in my bloodweb. And you might be like "well, thats 80 keys across an entire team vs only 50 ebony's", and you would be correct, if I didnt have 150+ Ebony mori's on a killer where I grabbed all the mori's I could. Either keys need to become more common in bloodwebs, or the addons to keep them are neccesary.