Power_Guy
Power_Guy
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2340675#Comment_2340675
Well then if you don't think it's good you can not run it. But the killers who continue to be rewarded for losing the game will keep using it. The meta doesn't revolve around what you think is or isn't useful.
Killers have not 'lost the game' until the Survivors escape. And at that point, NoED can't hurt you.
Any earlier than 'Remaining Survivors left' and the game is not over, because the Killer can still kill you.
All this 'rewards failure' and 'already lost' tripe is just propaganda to pretend NoED is better than it is.
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I love this 'free kills' BS Survivors spew to pretend some perks are unfair. Newsflash: If the Killer hit you, downed, you, picked you up, and no one saved you before he hooked you; it was not a 'free kill'.
NoED needs one totem to go uncleansed for an entire match, THEN not get cleansed in the end game. That's not a 'free kill'. That's risk vs reward. And his risk was rewarded by Survivors being lazy.
But I know, I know. Killers never do anything right; our kills are either 'free' or 'toxic'. No Killer has ever gotten a legit kill, according to these forums. 😂🤣😂
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Are we really seeing a flood of these threads?
'Please change the game so I lose less to tactics I don't like' is kind of wild to see from so many people.
Do the folks who make these threads also complain ab out snipers in FPS games? Not trying to be mean, but what is with people demanding the devs remove tactics just because they don't like them? Can Killers ask for gens to be removed? 😁
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339991#Comment_2339991
I would definitly run it, if they decide to make that change. It would be the best slowdown perk in the game.
The reason why noed is so beloved by killers (and hated by survivors) is because it slows down the game anyway (usually a few totems will get cleansed in the process somehow) but eventually, 1-2 remain and the perk activates regardless of the survivors effort.
How would it be the best? You would be running a perk that screams 'Come cleanse me before you finish the last gen so I don't do anything for the entire match!'
Do you know why some perks are 'invisible' (IE: You can see their effect right away. I know DH has a lit totem) until they activate? (NoED, Devour Hope). It's because their power is in their surprise. If Devour Hope started the match and went 'HE HAS DEVOUR HOPE!' Survivors would 100% cleanse it before doing anything else, and it would become useless to run.
The same goes for NoED; If the match started and there was a symbol screaming 'KILLER HAS NOED!' then Survivors would drop everything to totem hunt. Sure, it buys some time, but the perk would, in most matches, never live to see the end of the match.
And since it does nothing until the end of the match; what would be the point in picking a perk that does nothing and never procs?
The threat of NoED maybe existing is what makes Survivors do totems. Just look at the complaints in this thread; 'It makes me waste time'. Survivors don't want to waste time doing anything but escaping (gens & doors). This is not an insult; they want to do what makes them win, as efficiently as possible. This makes sense.
So if they knew, concretely, that NoED was not in a match, barring other perks (like Ruin); they would ignore totems & slam gens. Don't don't tell me they won't; Survivors don't want to do totems when NoED is an unknown threat, so why would they do totems for funsies if they knew NoED was not around?
(Working with using bolds and italics for emphasis instead of caps)
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@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339908#Comment_2339908
Oh I know how to play around it, just telling you that it’s bs that when you activate a trap you are forced to look at it.
Have you EVER played survivor?
Yes, I have. Frequently. Stop acting like this is some clear-cut case of an OP perk, because it's not.
Hag is fine.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339936#Comment_2339936
Writing everything in big letters wont make your argument more valid, Captain Caps-Lock.
If the survivors know that the killer runs noed, it will actually encourage them to do totems and in the process it will slow down the game instead of rushing the gens, or they will suffer the consequences.
I dont mind Noed as survivor and i never use it as a killer, but i can understand the complains about it. Noed somehow feels as cheap as the very old DS we had like 3 years ago. Outdated perk.
I don't use caps to shout. Think of it more as stressing/emphasizing those words. Text can only do so much.
And you're ignoring the other two-thirds of knowing if NoED exists:
- Survivors will know it exists, and waste time doing totems, sure. You are right.
- Survivors will know it DOES NOT (again, emphases, not yelling) exist, and ignore totems to speedrun gens without worry.
- Survivors will know it exists, and do bones, and thus it will NEVER make it to end game.
So, in 2 out of 3 results, knowing NoED is in a match completely negates its effectiveness. In fact, it downright nerfs it into uselessness.
It either never activates, because Survivors knew to do bones before popping the 5th gen, or Survivors know it's not a current threat, and never risk doing bones.
It's like Survivors just can't understand that the thread of NoED is exactly how it is to make them do bones no matter what. It was BHVR's fix for gen speeds. Changing it would undo that fix and nerf NoED into the dirt.
No Killer would use a perk that does nothing all match, tells the Survivors it exists before it has any use, and thus never sees end game.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339893#Comment_2339893
Thats the problem here.
Risk and reward is not ballanced at all.
50% of the time, survivors do dull totems even the killer does not have it.
The other 50% he might have it, but they cant find the last totem or are slaughtered in the process. It is underrated how much time it takes to cleanse 5 totems. This is basicly a full survivor doing nothing for 3 minutes at least, even with totem finding perks. Survivors can not afford playing 3v1 for a big part of the round just to neutralize a single perk that might not even be used by the killer.
My suggestion for noed: Give the survivor a notification, that the killer runs Noed, then they can decide what to do by themselve.
No. This would make NoED garbage.
Survivors would not have to cleanse, if they knew NoED did not exist in a match. And thus they would just genrush.
How many times do I have to say it; NoED being an unknown threat IS ITS PURPOSE. It exists like this to SLOW DOWN GEN SPEEDS.
If Survivors knew they could ignore totems, then NoED may as well not exist anymore.
Either do bones or don't; That's YOUR call. And you get punished or not if you make the right call or not. This is not rocket science.
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I've noticed the mindset behind threads like this:
'I died to <thing>. But I am too good to die. This must mean my skill was not the factor. This means <thing> is OP. Devs; please nerf or remove <thing>.'
Replace <thing> with: Camping, slugging, tunneling, Killer power, or Killer perk. Just look at the other thread claiming Hag needs the camera-screw from her power removed.
(Apparently I'm a biased Killer main for DARING to disagree with such a clearly needed nerf!)
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@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339357#Comment_2339357
Classic killer main, would love to see you play survivor against a hag and you might realize why it’s so damn annoying
Classing Survivor main; screaming that any resistance to an unneeded nerf is bias. The problem is, Survivors scream for EVERY power to be nerfed, at one point or another. Usually without merit. Like here.
Sorry; Hag is fine. Her power does not need a nerf. Learn to play around it.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339678#Comment_2339678
But as survivor, pathing is the key to actually surviving. Running towards a window just for a trap beside you to turn you around and make you start running towards the killer doesn't feel fun or interactive on the survivor side.
So you don't like it because Survivors can't promptly counter it? Why does everything need an 'interaction' from Survivors or it's 'unfair'?
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@DoomedMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339574#Comment_2339574
Man stop xD current DS isn't meta at all, it has none usefulness now, it just barely prevents tunnelling. You can't do anything that will develop the game, it is not a problem anymore, saying the opposite is nonsense
Imagine FIVE second-chance perks (4 perks + Basekit DS) per Survivor, for 4 Survivors.
That's TWENTY second chances, per match. In matches that rarely go over 6-7 minutes.
If you can't see why that's OP, then I am going to call 'fibbage' on you being a rank 1 Nurse. Anyone looking at the whole picture can see why 4 perks plus DS would be OP, nevermind somehow adding a longer stun for each Survivor to screw a Killer with.
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No, DS should never be basekit. Imagine a new 4 perk meta with basekit DS. That would be beyond OP.
And increasing the stun, when it's already multiplied by 4 Survivors?
Camping and tunneling are tactics. Same as genrushing, hiding, flashlight saves, and t-bagging to get the Killer's attention. You don't get to decide how Killers play simply because you dislike losing. 🤷♂️
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339482#Comment_2339482
But hag still gets the hit so I’m struggling to see how they are wasted
If they don't camera snap, Hag has to chase longer, because Survivors are not interface screwed.
All you're seeing is the end result; Survivor hit. You're not seeing the 60 second chase turned into a 30-40 second chase. In a match where every second counts.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339462#Comment_2339462
So let’s say a survivor triggers a trap. Even if the camera doesn’t move hag can get the hit so long as she’s fast on the button. This camera snap has no effect other than to give newer hags more time to teleport and to ######### over survivors very occasionally.
Hag is already an S/A tier killer so a small nerf like this really wouldn’t change that
I'm talking more about chases. If the camera snap did not happen, then traps triggering in a chase, barring those in a choke point (Like Trapper traps) would be wasted. Survivors would ignore them and keep running.
Just because you don't like it, does not mean it's outdated or needs nerfing.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339425#Comment_2339425
What if they don't want to give the survivors a chance to recover (e.g no Kobe off hooks) is that not a valid reason? Again, there's other reasons, these are the only ones that came to mind. Also, without video evidence, it's never reportable. This is the rules for reporting to behaviour fyi.
Again, I'm condescending because I'd rather you remember this conversation as me being the bad guy but know what's reportable than otherwise. Not just because I think I'm right , but because I hear " I don't like this so I'll report this" so often that it's sickening with, again, the future prospect of an auto an system.
I've also never bled some teams out (around 3-3.5k hours myself) but if someone doesn't have BBQ (new players) or deerstalker ect then again another reason.
If we are talking experienced players with it equipped then sure, but if they don't have either of these equipped that's another excuse they could make.
I still remember a game where Survivors screamed I 'tunneled' because I downed someone, and their friend was 3 feet away with a flashlight.
They would run away, then run back, making it obvious I could not pick up their SWF buddy. So I had to chase and down them.
Having done so, I went back to the first guy...who had crawled away, and I could not hear any grunts of pain. So I gave up when a third guy got the Flashlight Survivor up.
End of the match; I was accused of 'slugging' like a 'baby scrub'. It's like...If you wanted to be picked up; why did you crawl away!?
But some Survivors can play Ring Around The Hooked Survivor, and claim the Killer camped. They will blame the Killer for everything.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339438#Comment_2339438
Her traps give her a free hit in 90% of circumstances when triggered. She doesn’t need it
Anyway you didn’t answer the question. How much worse would she be if it were removed?
Fake statistic. Plus, I just said it's SUPPOSED to help her if a trap is triggered in a chase.
And that was also the answer to your question; it would cut her trap's effectiveness by half. Survivors would just trigger traps and keep running. This would remove their use via chasing Survivors towards traps, and even allow them to get further away before a Hag teleports.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2339386#Comment_2339386
Hag is fine without it and all it does is frustrate people.
It’s outdated because the mechanic was intended as a “jump scare” but since DBD is barely a horror game anymore I’d say it’s safe to assume it’s not needed
Better question how much worse would Hag actually be if it was gone? Most hags have teleport bound to mouse wheel so will immediately hit you anyway
I disagree. The only people 'frustrated' are those claiming it 'gives a free hit'. IE: People unhappy they got hit by a Killer's power at all. That argument could be used for literally every power in the game.
And it was not only meant as a jumpscare. The interface screw is to help the hag in a chase. Remove it, and suddenly you get a 'boo' that does nothing; a waste of a triggered trap.
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@Zokenay said:
For me its coldwind, im sick of corn
But it's such an a-maize-ing map!
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@Phasmamain said:
It’s definitely outdated imo but if you know where the trap is in chase it won’t effect you
Why is it outdated? What made it outdated? What does it better? What could it be replaced with?
And no, simply nerfing Hag by removing it does not count as replacing it. Saying it's 'outdated' means the game has out-grown its use. Not that it needs nerfing.
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If you could ignore the traps as you ran by, they would be half as effective as they are now.
It kind of simulates the Survivor's attention snapping to the fake hag as she appears, and it also messes with the camera, so it can help in chases.
But here we go; claiming a power gives 'free hits'. If she chases you towards a trap; she kind of deserves that hit, so it's not 'free'. It's 'planning ahead'.
I don't get this mentality of '<x> power gives free hits!'. If the Killer used their power, and hit you, what part of it is 'free?'. They clearly used their power to good enough effect to hit you. 🤷♀️
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I'd pass. TWD is nothing but a soap opera with zombies. I watched...6 seasons, I think? With a friend who was obsessed with it, and it was always the same thing; Survivors find eachother, Survivors make a base, Survivors lose base & scatter, Survivors find eachother, Survivors make a base, etc.
After the Prison; I got bored. Right as Neegan showed up; I stopped watching.
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@PsychoTron said:
When a teammate gets hooked, the default isn't for everyone else to go do gens.
Unless the hooked is running Kindred, the 3 people have no idea that the killer is camping unless they go for the save, and this wastes valuable time.
Ya'll can't be this dense.
The point of not having the info is WHY it works. Seriously. It's not that hard to understand that the Killer benefits if Survivors run at the hook like lemmings.
Sneak close; if you see the Killer, go back to gens.
I just don't get Survivors who expect the game to hold their hand for every step. They genrush, then get angry when they have to stop genrushing because they don't know if a Killer is camping.
What? Do you want the game to just flat out tell you 'Keep doing gens.'? Can you not figure it out yourself? Is it so unfair that the Killer benefits from lock of information?
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2337378#Comment_2337378
Personally, I'd just make it so that Survivors can switch hooks and not die until the set amount of hooks for the Killer is reached. To make up for this, all Killers would be buffed to make that gameplay more viable.
Perhaps, once the hook counter is filled, the Killer then Moris them out of the game. Hook swapping can have a cooldown on it as well, so the Survivor must sit on the hook for a bit to give the Killer time to adjust and figure out where all the Survivors are going. This would allow something like Make Your Choice to still be viable.
Map sizes would also need to be reduced, but realistically, that's never happening.
Well, if you want to go the whole 'Don't remake the entire game' route, sure. 😋
Though gen speeds would also have to be increased, since it's nearly impossible for some Killers (via mechanics or player skill) to get 12 hooks in a normal match.
How would you handle Kobe attempts? Since I assume Struggling would be out (or Killers would just camp, like now); would Kobe attempts just fill their hook counter? Maybe 2 attempts = 1 counter?
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2337170#Comment_2337170
Look, you can imagine in your head as much as you want that there is a global conspiracy of survivors trying to take away your agency... But the reality is that not punishing toxic mechanic results is less people playing survivor and the queues will continue getting longer and longer for killers. Either promote non-toxic gameplay or get stuck with long queues. Your choice. I don't care either way because Battlefield 2142 is just a few months away and I'm dumping this toxic community.
"And guess why Kindred is not base kit? Because it would 100% negate Insidious." - It doesn't counter Insidious 100%. You can still use it just not next to the hook.
"No one wants to play a game where the game takes away your choice, then makes you lose for it." - Exactly, Bubba camping hook with Insidious is taking away choice from survivors. All they can do at this point is M1 on gens. And the player being camped is guaranteed to lose. Where is the choice here? Or are you saying it's only okay to take choice from survivors, but not killers?
Ok, fine. Since being hooked or removed from the game is so unacceptable to Survivors, here's my fix:
Remove the hooks. Then do the following:
Killers have to down Survivors 4 or 5 times, then get to mori them. These are the replacement to hook states. (Of course, numbers can be changed for balancing)
If the Killer manages to down everyone at the same time (An All Incap), then everyone's 'Down State' progresses by 1. (IE: If someone was Downed 2 times & is on the ground, but everyone is downed before they are saved, they have now been Downed 3 times).
Perhaps everyone will stay Downed for 10-15 seconds; long enough for a Killer to go kick a gen.
At this time, everyone will get back up to Healthy, since everyone was Downed. If a Killer is near a Downed Survivor as they are healed from an All Incap; they are stunned and blinded.
Survivors leave no scratch marks for 10 seconds after an All Incap. (This is to 'reset' the game state, and prevent a Killer from camping one Survivor)
Either that, or the Killer gets to mori one of the Survivors, and the others get back up to Healthy. But that may encourage more slugging.
BUT! Survivors can no longer crawl; they have to be found by their fellow Survivors. This prevents crawling out a gate, since being 'Downed' is the new Hook State. Also; the Killer cannot carry Survivors anymore.
There is no Bleedout Timer, to avoid new camping. The Killer is expected to Down people and move on until he can Mori.
Adjust Gen speeds for this new gameplay.
That's the only way I can think of to remove camping & slugging while still keeping the match going and not removing Killer or Survivor agency. Plus; now moris have a more common use as the End State instead of being fluff.
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@tester said:
I get the same in almost every game in purple ranks. Camping and tunneling non stop. I stopped bringing cakes because it's just a waste at this point. Long killer queues are a good indicator where this game is headed. If camping as a minimum is not addressed killer queues are going to go into half an hour territory. There is no reason DS and Kindred shouldn't be base kit. And I'm saying it as killer main who switched to survivor due to wanting to play instead of waiting for lobby.
And if you take away Killer player's choice in how they play, or force mechanics on them that could cost them a full kill or the game; you can see Survivor queue times start to climb as Killers quit.
No one wants to play a game where the game takes away your choice, then makes you lose for it. Hence why there are no 'punishments' or 'fixes' for camping/tunneling/slugging; anything put in place would either be abused (See; old anti-camping mechanic), or remove player agency.
And no; DS should not be base kit. Hell freaking no do I want a new 4 perk meta plus DS in every match. That would be so broken it's not funny.
And guess why Kindred is not base kit? Because it would 100% negate Insidious. You can't make a perk basekit that hard counters another perk.
Just because Survivors have this idea in their head that they get to choose how Killers play, does not mean they actually get to choose how Killers play. They don't pick Killer perks, Killers, or tactics. Any more than Killers pick Survivor perks or tactics.
This is the only game, in my nearly 40 years of gaming, where I've ever seen one side so utterly convinced that they can dictate the actions of their opponent, and demanded it from the devs.
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This has to be bait.
'If the Killer camps for 15 seconds; let Survivors unhook for free AND stun the Killer'.
There's no way someone thinks this would be balanced. And on top of that the old 'Freeze the struggle timer' suggestion that was already abused in game (a slowdown, not a freeze, but still).
This has to be a bait post.
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Guys! THINK OF THE PUNS!
If they ever nerf Spirit, then we Killers would be able to FINALLY say 'Welp, BHVR finally crushed our Spirit!' And this just CANNOT happen, for the sanity of everyone!
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2336583#Comment_2336583
For all they scream about 'fair play' and 'toxic jerks'; I have NEVER seen a Survivor say 'If we are about to get a 4E, I let the Killer kill me'.
I've done that :D
If I feel like I've bullied a Killer too hard and I'm not aching for a win, I'll throw myself into the jaws of death at the end as an apology. Unless they bring NoED. No remorse for NoED.
That is nice of you. :)
In my 200 hours as Killer, I have never had it happen.
@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2336583#Comment_2336583
Survivors can’t do anything for a fair game, Jesus man. We aren’t taking you hostage and camping you, preventing you from playing the game or anything else.
You keep taking the worst examples of survivors, you don’t run into a 4 man god squad every game. It’s called ######### matchmaking and that’s why bad killers feel like they have to tunnel or camp.
If you got survivors your skill you would know that it’s not needed, but nowadays trash killers reach rank 1 in a few hours and complain about everything survivors do because they don’t know enough about the game.
And you don't run into campers every game. Glad we got that sorted.
Here's the thing: On these very forums, I have NEVER seen a Killer say 'Do you NEED that 4E?! Stop being a sweat and give a Killer a kill!'
Guess what I have seen? 'Do you NEED that 4K!? Stop being a tryhard! Just give final Survivor the hatch!'
I have repeatedly seen Survivors on these forums try to shame Killers for being 'sweats' and 'expecting a 4K'.
It's almost like, to use your words 'nowadays trash Survivors reach rank 1 in a few hours and complain about everything Killers do because they don’t know enough about the game.'
Then, they come to the forums and demand the Devs alter the game to make it so 'cheap tactics' (IE: Anything used to make them lose) are no longer useable.
And...I don't know if you have realized this, given the game is only 5 years old, but the Killer's goal is to remove you from the game.
If you can't handle being removed from a game before you feel you have filled some sort of anomalous fun quota; maybe a PvP game is not for you. There's no checkbox or questionnaire asking you if you had enough fun before letting the Killer kill you.
So I don't get why Survivors keep saying 'The Killer can remove me from the game EARLY!' like this is flawed design. It's a PvP game; someone always dies early in every PvP game ever made. Most people can accept it as part of the PvP experience.
I have yet to see a PvP game that gives people timed immunity to fill a 'fun quota' for both sides.
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@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2336226#Comment_2336226
You seem boring to play against, pretty sure you are the type to camp someone for looping you.
Should I care about your opinion on how I may or may not play?
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2336522#Comment_2336522
Oh for sure they exaggerate things that happen and hozw often they do. Of all the things that people claim happen to them
I've NEVER seen someone slug an entire team out and let them bleed out. And if that did happen..That's the teams fault for letting 4 people be in the position to get slugged at once. That takes a massive ######### up.
Sure tunneling and camping happens. But again....In the last 30 games(yes I've been keeping track) Camping and tunneling has happened once.
Stridor spirit happened 3 times. So cool out of 30 games. 28 it didnt happen and 25 of them were enjoyable.
Yet people act like it happens every match.
They act like it happens every map because they want to convince the devs that it happens every match.
They hope to force the Killers to play in a set way that makes it easier for them to win:
If camping is punished or somehow removed; they will have easier unhooks, which means a better chance at escaping. Or get abuseable rewards (Look at the old 'fix' for camping that was removed when Survivors abused the hell out of it)
If Killer's cannot slug; then either they will have an easier time getting people up, or better chances at saves.
And if tunneling is somehow punished; then they can bodyblock Killers who have to avoid 'tunneling' them (Look at Borrowed Time).
All of it is, at its core, ways to tie the Killer's hands, take away player agency, and make the game easier for Survivors.
For all they scream about 'fair play' and 'toxic jerks'; I have NEVER seen a Survivor say 'If we are about to get a 4E, I let the Killer kill me'.
Yet Killers are 'toxic' 'sweats' and 'tryhards' for getting a 4K. Survivors just expect to be given the hatch because they want it. But Killers don't expect a free kill when the gates are open.
Survivers don't let the Killer hook them if they run the Killer for 3-4 gens. Yet Killers are expected to 'stop playing like an ass' if gens have not popped by the time someone is hooked.
It's double-standard hypocritical BS. Killers are expected to cater to Survivor's wants and expectations for a 'fair game' but it never goes the other way.
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@BrokenSouI said:
It's hilarious that people keep saying this happens SO much. Like EVERY game. Yet I've been playing survivor a good bit more lately. And I've gotten tunneled ONCE in the last 30 games. And had ONE camper in that same time frame.
Now I did have a run where we got 3 stridor spirits in a row. And that's a whole other story.
I'm mostly convinced that some Survivors are so determined to remove camping/slugging/tunneling simply because they don't like it, even if they rarely see it, so they invent stories in an attempt to convince the devs that it's more of a problem than it is.
These people just want Killers to have a harder time winning, as I've pointed out is the motive behind most 'punish <x> Killer tactic' threads.
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@Sypherpathic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2336226#Comment_2336226
Sure. At some point, enough survivor players will decide something else is more fun and leave. Your queue times will go up and at some point, the game loses more viability.
Sure, it's baked in for killers to send survivors out of the match (I'm feeling literal today so calling it 'killing' doesn't really fit the game's story since the survivors just go back to the campfire in lore), but when players feel punished by other players, they will leave the game. How is that good for anyone?
I think killers should be looking at how to make the match fun for everyone playing. Sure, you should still 'do what you're there for', but for myself, I will sometimes avoid death-hooking someone and look elsewhere and similar. To me, if you're playing just to 1-2-3 kill survivors, you're missing the point of the game.
So, what your post boils down to is 'Killers CAN try winning, but if Survivors aren't happy because of it, Killers should not try as hard'.
Ok, let me apply that to literally every other PvP game out there; I won't try winning in PubG because it may make those who lose to me sad.
I won't try winning in Overwatch, because people might quit when they lose.
I should stop trying in Fortnite because people who can't stand losing might just quit the game, and that's bad for business!
There goes trying to win PvP or World Vs World in Guild Wars 2; I might make people quit if they lose!
This, this is what I point out in every anti-camp/tunnel/slug thread. This exact mentality of 'Killers should stop trying, because it makes Survivors sad'.
And it's funny how those same Survivors telling Killers to 'stop trying' don't stop running meta, don't stop SWF, don't stop genrushing, and don't give Killers free kills.
I mean, Killers might quit if Survivors run them for 5 minutes, slam all five gens in under 5 minutes, and get 4-man escapes! Right?
...No? It only works in Survivor's favor?
I mean, that's all I see when words are put to actions; Killers are expected to make Survivors happy. But if Killers apply the same logic, the answer is 'git gud' and 'earn that 4K' while Survivors demand Killers give final Survivor the hatch, or demand changes to 'camping' so they get free unhooks.
It's 'Camping is ruining the game' and 'Gen speeds are fine; git gid'
It's 'Killers should stop playing sweaty' and 'Stop being an ass' when Killers don't give Survivors a free hatch, while also saying 'Earn your 4K'.
It's 'Don't use good perks (See; complaints about NoED)' while telling Killers to 'deal with it' for SWF.
The level of entitled hypocrisy from Survivors in a general way is staggering.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2336191#Comment_2336191
How? A survior is not forcibly taking the killer out of the game without any kind of a chance because they wanted to face camp. A surviors can’t force a killer to be on the ground until they bleed out
Why do Survivors keep using 'The Killer can remove us from the game!' as some sort of argument for anything at all?
That is his job. He wins by removing people from the game. This should not be shocking information 5 years into the game's life.
HOW and WHEN it happens means nothing; you don't get to decide the Killer can't remove you yet because you did not get some sort of fun quota.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Definitely an underrated RE. Not the best, but it had its moments. Just hate how this game entire development is making Chris trusting in his teammates again but RE6 throws him into depression again...
RE5 was not about trusting his teammate. It was about him not wanting a teammate because of his last one. (trying to stay spoiler free) He wanted to be solo so nothing bad happened to anyone else.
RE6 Chris's Story was about him having PTSD so bad that he blocked out the memories of what happened.
A slight difference, but a large one.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335584#Comment_2335584
Yes. Just prepare yourself though. After having played RE2 remake & RE3 remake, I found going back to RE6, RE5, and RE4 rather clunky.
But yeah. Chris is 🔥🔥🔥. I just want to be squeezed in a tight vice bearhug with those massive arms and boulder shoulders.
I'm still not convinced that Chris's arms in RE5 aren't some sort of T-Virus mutation. 😋
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Just a reminder of a few things:
The opponent is not responsible for what you consider 'fun'.
I don't like getting smashed in fighting games. Does that mean I can tell my opponent to stop fighting as hard, aka 'stop playing like an ass'?
The opponent should not be expected to farm, or give you free unhooks/hits/kills/escapes/gens or 'last hatch'.
I see this all the time when I play; Survivors who get angry because I went for the 4K like 'sweaty killer'. Where did this sense of 'I lived longest, so I get a free escape' come from? And why does it never work in reverse? In 5 years of playing, a 4 man escape has NEVER given me a free kill.
You don't get to make up rules on what you consider 'toxic'.
Survivors don't get to tell Killers that they can't tunnel/camp/slug. I don't care how much it hurts your feelings when it happens. Likewise; Killer's can't tell Survivors that they can't genrush, twerk, and flashlight-clicky.
If we extended this to other games, I'd have people raging at me in Overwatch because I used a voice line or taunt when I killed them.
And you also realize YOU are making the game toxic for yourself? That Killer who tunneled you? Probably did it because you were wounded, not to 'ruin your game'. That Survivor who twerked after dropping a pallet? He's trying to make you chase him longer, NOT to 'be an ass'.
It's less common that someone is trying to 'ruin your day', because most people are not the toxic trolls people think they are. But everyone wants to be the tragic hero in their own story, so that Killer just going for kills is a 'Toxic jerk who camped everyone' and that Survivor who twerked at 2 pallets turns into 'The jerk who twerked all the way out of the game'.
Then they can 'fight to change the rules' and be the hero.
Likewise; you don't get to decide what your opponent can and cannot do to win.
I see it all the time on this forum. Mostly from Survivors demanding tunneling/camping/slugging be changed/removed/punished. Sorry, but that's the truth. You know why most games have set rules, and the players can't alter those rules?
Because most players will try to find a way to use the rules against their opponent to make it easier to win.
It DOES NOT MATTER how camping/slugging/tunneling/genrushing etc. make you feel; they are tools your opponent uses to win. The problem is not that you dislike the method; the problem is that you dislike losing.
If tunneling did not work; would you still hate it? No.
If camping never got a Killer a single kill, would you hate it? No.
If slugging did not make you bleed out, would you hate it? No.
If genrushing did not end matches in 5-6 minutes, would you hate it? No.
The problem is not the method, it's the result.
And THAT is why I will always, ALWAYS call out these threads for what they are, as well; thinly-veiled attempts to control the opponent & take away their tools for winning. IE: To give yourself an easier game.
Does that mean that things should not be changed? No. Things can always be improved.
In the vein of 'genrushing': If you were to add 20 seconds to each gen; that's an extra 1:40 to the match, which might make Killers camp less, as they would feel less pressured from the first second a game starts.
I do remember, when DBD started, before gens were done at hyper speed; Killers did not camp because camping is boring, and they had the time to hunt for Survivors, and could give up unhooks while trusting their skill to get a new hook.
Now; every chase is 2-3 gens done, and every hook is 'If they get free, I don't have the time to find someone new for 2 chases, so back up the wounded guy goes!'.
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I love that, in RE Village, Heisenberg called Chris 'That bolder punching <censored>' 😂
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'Stop whining about OP Survivors are now because they were more OP in the past!'
Being more OP back then does not mean they aren't OP now. 😂
This post has major 'Back in my day!' vibes. What's next? 'Get off my lawn'?
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@HaunterofShadows said:
No they're not. the two scrapped names are a reference to another game
Little Nightmares 2 😀
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'EA' and 'Gearbox', because those companies are dead to me. Also in there is 'Activision' sometimes, when a zombie is staring at a wall and drooling. 😁
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@Khar said:
I heard a pretty good argument about this from a youtuber. That if it's fair for Survivors to have exhaustion perks throughout the entirety of the match, why is it not fair for killers to have NOED at the end of the match, if it even activates at all.
Because Survivors have invented a false narrative where 5 gens popping is a Killer 'failing' to win (even though he can still Kill people at that point). Using this false narrative, they can claim NoED 'rewards failure' because that sounds better for their argument than 'The Killer planned for the long game'.
They also sometimes believe that, if they popped 5 gens, they deserve to escape, and the gate is a mere formality. Thus, NoED is openly crushing their view of how the game works. Since they 'already won' in their minds, NoED is clearly 'punishing Survivors unfairly' by taking away their 'win' before they leave the match.
They cannot comprehend that a Killer bringing NoED is giving up 1 perk slot for the entire match, because they can never remove ANYTHING non-meta. And they also don't want to admit that the Killer out-played them or planned ahead; that would be admitting they made a mistake.
But they don't make mistakes, so clearly the fault is in NoED's design.
They also refuse to do anything but gens as fast as possible. Then NoED slaps them in the face.
But instead of changing their tactics, or their perks (remember; they won't play anything non-meta), they stubbornly refuse to do bones because they don't want to waste time on anything except gens; gens is how they win ASAP. And since they can't admit to themselves that non-meta perks exist, or that they made a mistake; it must be NoED's design that's at fault.
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
In my opinion, it's just common decency to at least try and let everyone have fun.
Yes but what's 'fun'?
I let Survivors do gens; they pop open the exit gates, twerk on the way out, and insult me in endgame chat. Because they can't comprehend that I LET them win; it MUST have been their innate skill, and I'm a little baby bad killer scrub. 🙄
I kill Survivors; I'm a tryhard sweaty Killer main. 😏
So I play Killer the way I want; Survivors can try to win while I try to win. Anything else is a gift to the other team & not to be expected in normal play. If Survivors can't cope with Killer's trying to win, then they should not be playing a PvP game.
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I enjoyed Old Freddy but let's be honest; watching people unhook or finish gens or open the gate in your face because they were immune to damage until they fell asleep was stupidly frustrating.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334486#Comment_2334486
So, using Discord for voice chat playing any other game is cheating now?
Do you define joining a party on console also cheating even though that isn't a third party program?
Do you even understand how incredibly stupid this sounds?
Joining a party is integrated into the game, but I was being snarky.
I'm aware voice comms are here to stay. I just wish the devs would admit it and start balancing around that fact. Just give the game VoIP so solo-Q's stop suffering.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334464#Comment_2334464
Next time, before you make any kind of remark, just -READ. MY. POST.-
No, giving it a time limit won't fix it. But making it dependent on the amount of totems left as opposed to this 'all or nothing' thing WOULD be an improvement. Currently, clearing 4 out of 5 does NOTHING to counter NOED. This is why doing bones is such a craptastic argument against NOED: You're not going to do all five solo without screwing over your team, and you're not going to be able to coordinate a clean 5-totem clear in solo play. This means that any individual effort you put in to get the 5-totem cleanse NOED block is far, FAR more likely to set your team back and STILL not stop NOED.
You take it's effect, which ANYONE can see works the way I said it works, and reply with 'See? That means no one will cleanse! Ha!' with absolutely 0 evidence to back up your claim other than you said so.
So does it not still retain its full function when you cleanse 4 out of 5 totems? Does it not cost a ton of time to get all five totems done? Does it not waste your time tremendously if you do all five and the killer -doesn't- have NOED?
I keep explaining in what ways it is disadvantageous to do bones against NOED and you just refuse to argue against any of that in lieu of just going 'dumb survivors just want ez escape, don't want to do bones!'
I RAN your strategy. Detective's Hunch, dropping everything to get totems done and guess what? I blocked NOED -once-. In ALL other cases, either I couldn't clear all five totems which meant NOED fired anyway and I just wasted my team's time, or the killer didn't have NOED and I just wasted my team's time.
Yes, it -can- be deactivated. But that doesn't mean that that is an effective or tenable strategy.
You have HOW MANY perks and items and addons that speed up totem cleansing or show you where bones are?! USE THEM.
Sure, if you want to make the game into rochambeau. But we also need to take BT against camping, DS against tunnelling, UB against slugging, IW against Spirit, DH against Nurse and Spine Chill against stealth killers. So where exactly do you want us to fit DetHunch or SG?
Your fix is a nerf, plain and simple. Anyone can see it.
Oh yes, making it baseline is a real harsh nerf. And getting two-and-a-half extra minutes to track and kill survivors is a really raw deal, huh?
At least I'm trying to think of a solution instead of just bull-headedly repeating the same tired old trope that I already explained doesn't work.
Doing. Bones. Isn't. NOED's. Counter.
That once-in-a-blue-moon NOED block does not outweigh the thousands of times survivors cleanse fewer than 5 and get punished hard for it.
But I get it; those perks aren't META. You guys want to ignore bones and keep your META perks; hence this thread. it's nothing more than 'We COULD do bones, but we don't WANT to do bones. So please change NoED so we never have to worry. K thx!'
And you call -me- whiny?
Also, I am literally saying NOED would be better designed if it was baseline and you somehow misinterpret it so thoroughly that you caricature it as 'please change NOED so we never have to worry'. Are you drunk?
I will say it again; You point to NoED 'wasting time' without any payout as a flaw. It is NOT. The point of NoED is to make you do totems, even if it is not in the match.
Your argument towards why NoED is bad is why NoED works in the first place! It's an unknown threat. You don't know if a Killer has it, so you take the time to do bones. Either it pays off and your team clears all 5 bones, or it does not.
You're not meant to do all 5 on your own, so if YOU could not get all 5 bones, then your team also failed. Or the Killer succeeded in protecting a totem.
But you act like Survivors should ALWAYS get rewarded via Killer debuffs for cleansing totems, and anything less is bad design. This is wrong.
NoED is a damn all-or-nothing perk:
- Either it survives until endgame, or the Killer wasted a perk slot
- Either YOUR TEAM OF FOUR cleanses FIVE TOTEMS, or NoED procs.
It's all-or-nothing for Survivors AND Killers.
But keep pointing to how it makes you 'waste time'; This. Is. What. it. Does. It makes you risk doing totems on the chance a Killer has it.
Just like a Killer works with 3 perks all match on the chance it does not get cleansed.
If YOU decide that doing 5 totems is 'too hard', then you eat NoED. This is not bad design. This is not a game problem. This is a YOU problem.
YOU are deciding not to try for 5 bones. YOU are risking the punishment for it. The devs don't have to bend over backwards to change a perk simply because YOU are too lazy to use the counters that exist.
That's like getting angry that healing exists because you can't just naturally heal over time.
'Man, it sucks that I get injured I should just heal back to Healthy after 30 seconds!'
'But you have med kits, Self Care, and teammates to rely on.'
'Yeah but that takes time I don't have! That's bad design! I should just heal because I want too! Using a medkit just takes too long, and teammates might fail skillchecks! Devs; change how healing works, because I don't want to stop doing gens!'
For the final damn time; NoED is SUPPOSED to make you waste time. NoED is SUPPOSED to be an unknown threat. NoED is all-or-nothing FOR BOTH SURVIVORS AND KILLERS.
But instead of using what you have to counter it, you want the perk to do nothing all game, then have a time limit in the end game.
I don't care what you try to call it; that is a nerf for killers. Survivors will just immerse for two minutes and then be safe. Plus, slower Killers won't be able to cross bigger maps, or search effectively, in that time limit.
That would be garbage for a Killer to waste a perk slot on. it would go from 'I got to the end game; time to benefit from NoED' to 'I got to the end game, everyone hid, and I got no use out of NoED'.
Do you now understand why NoED is fine as-is? Or are you going to ignore everything I said, AGAIN, and pretend 'It makes me waste time, and I don't wanna' is a valid critique?
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@Venzhas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334282#Comment_2334282
Learn to read before ( trying to ) troll, we all use DS and BT here. We all sacrifice two perks slots for unfun perks because 90% of killer mains plays like jerks. So the entitled guy here is only you, ( the one that cant insert real emojis and making mistakes last line of his speech. ) you better say nothing when adults speaks
Ah yes, the 'We use meta because Killers are jerks' defense.
Man, Survivor mains really will blame Killers for every single thing they don't like, huh?
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2332165#Comment_2332165
Then the killer kills 2 and gets a 3rd while in chase with NOED because there is no time to do it all. Probably a 4th if he's/she's fast.
You keep making up scenarios where the Killer somehow gets everyone while skipping over HOW, because, from a numbers/time standpoint; it's impossible.
You seem to be dead set to invalidate arguments against changing NoED by saying 'It won't work because reasons' and think that invalidates people giving you actual, real, concrete numbers & evidence as to why a Killer camping with NoED would get 1, maybe 2, kills.
But your counter-argument is simply 'The Killer would get 4 kills, seriously' without anything to back up that claim other than 'Because he would'. Or, more accurately, because if he does not, your argument falls apart.
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@Mileena_Kahn said:
And I as a survivor am not here to give you a pleasant game or a free win. I will abuse loops, throw on perks to annoy you, hold M1 and rush the gens, hell I might even make it harder for you and squad up with a SWF with mic’s. Goes both ways boo. 😊
One difference; using a mic is 'using a third party program to gain an advantage' IE: the description of cheating in almost every online game out there.
The rest; I agree with. Try your hardest. Group with friends. Use META perks. Slam those pallets, use those loops, use blockers on ranged Killers. Rush those gens. Your goal is to escape. Mine is to kill you. Anything that's not cheating or exploits is fair game.
In short; Try your best, within the confines of the game (and without using cheats or exploits) to win.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334278#Comment_2334278
I mean, Power_Guy's argument is that it already is.
And honestly, with the right rework, NOED turning basekit is actually a good way to make totems into a pressing matter for the survivors. As it currently is, it does the opposite.
Imagine NOED being baseline, but instead of its current effect, it becomes 'When the exit gates are powered, a random surviving dull totem becomes a hex totem. While the hex is active, all survivors are exposed, and the killer gains 4% haste. This effect lasts 30 seconds per dull totem remaining at the time of activation.'
-THAT- would make survivors do bones.
Youre change is 'Let's give NoED a time limit'. You have changed NOTHING except giving NoED a controllable time limit and act like this would encourage Survivors to do bones.
If they won't do bones to permanently turn it off (You, yourself keep claiming that NoED somehow encourages people to NOT do bones...for some unknown reason that you think is fact), why would they do bones to reduce it's time limit?
Your whole claim is that cleansing 5 totems is just too hard, so no Survivor does it, and it's all NoEDs fault because it is a binary setting; countered or not.
But...Giving it some garbage time limit would make it 'better'? Really? Really?
Come on; you're just fishing to nerf NoED into the dust. No Killer would touch it, if they had to play an entire match with 3 perks, and then it proced for a whopping 30 seconds at the end (if all bones but 1 were cleansed).
You seem incapable, or just flat-out are ignoring, that Survivors can prevent it from activating with 'Yeah, well, what if they don't?' or 'We don't want too, and that means NoED is broken!'
You take it's effect, which ANYONE can see works the way I said it works, and reply with 'See? That means no one will cleanse! Ha!' with absolutely 0 evidence to back up your claim other than you said so.
If Survivors don't want to do bones to TURN IT OFF PERMANENTLY, why would giving it a timer change that?
It won't; it's just a pure nerf. Survivors still won't do bones, but now they can HIDE for a time limit to wait out NoED!
That's your 'fix'; just slap a time limit on it to allow Survivors to keep genrushing, then immerse 2 minutes 30 seconds to avoid NoED being a threat at all.
Your fix is a nerf, plain and simple. Anyone can see it.
NoED. Is. Fine. Just. Cleanse. Bones.
You have HOW MANY perks and items and addons that speed up totem cleansing or show you where bones are?! USE THEM.
But I get it; those perks aren't META. You guys want to ignore bones and keep your META perks; hence this thread. it's nothing more than 'We COULD do bones, but we don't WANT to do bones. So please change NoED so we never have to worry. K thx!' 🤦♂️
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Most would say 'Before any gens are done' which, to be fair, is a valid point (here comes the 'but') but... (told you!)
But, if Survivors just leave the Killer where he stands, they can pop 3 of 5 gens before that one Survivor dies. Of course, that relies on the Survivor dragging out his Hook States as long as possible.
Which is why I'm 10000000% in favor of Survivors getting BP when the Killer 'camps'; they are 'distracting the Killer by being wriggling meat'. And it would take ALLOT of the sting out of being camped.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334150#Comment_2334150
No, but they can certainly fix the issues at hand. Maps being broken? The tunneling issue? Spirit as a whole? The entire console experience? But mainly switch being practically unplayable? The hit detection system? The rank issues? Solo Q vs SWF?
I agree with all that but 'the tunneling issue'. But that's not an argument for this thread.