Power_Guy
Power_Guy
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Because wriggling is not supposed to be a solo escape. It's only in the game to prevent the Killer from carrying you while he chases your friends for the rest of the match, or to stop him from dragging you to the basement every time he picks you up.
Wriggling has never, and should never be, a way to escape without help.
Plus, with the breaking of ONE hook, wriggling is 95% guaranteed to let you escape; going any faster would make it impossible to hook people. Whatever perk did this would be a must-use.
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I actually made a suggestion here:
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@SMitchell8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154152#Comment_2154152
Killer may walk to close hatch. Atleast get another small chase and a few points. Appreciate its not an easy thing to implement
If the final Survivor could save himself, Killers would not walk away. We would wait until they hit Struggle Phase.
We walk away because we know the Survivor can't get away.
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@SMitchell8 said:
My last 3 games as survivor have seen me become the last survivor to be found and caught, yet without a single hook state lost, I think its pretty unfair that you get auto sacraficed without any kind of chance to reverse the result or earn any struggle points. You litterally keep safe from the killer all game yet if you get hooked last, you've lost 2 lives in 1. The killer inevitability stands there spamming his/her power as if he's owned you.
I do believe you should get the usual hook escape attempts and atleast a few seconds to struggle to make the killer wait, or you can just not struggle and accept defeat.
Your thoughts
What would be the point?
You jump off the hook; Killer is 2 feet away, hits you, and re-hooks you. He has nowhere to be, since you're the last one hooked. D. Strike? Ok, the Killer lets you bleed out for 60 seconds, THEN picks you back up & hooks you again. Now you're in the Struggle Phase for no reason.
To waste the Killer's time? Why? To spite them because they killed you? That's a new level of petty. Why does the Killer deserve to have his time wasted just because he hooked you? That's literally his goal.
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@Harold_Shipman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152339#Comment_2152339
Nah, just all this nonsense about "Oh its a bug that benefits survivors so the dev's don't care" when clearly that's not the case if they still haven't fixed the pallet stun bug.
You mean the Pallet Stun bug, which is 100% random, and hard to replicate, and thus hard to figure out WHAT, exactly, is breaking? The bug that, because it's hard to replicate in a controlled environment, means it's harder to fix?
As opposed to the Breakdown bug, which happens every time, and can be repeated by sticking a person on a hook, and is clearly the result of error in a single perk's code?
Ah yes; totally the same things, they are!
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2153562#Comment_2153562
Appealing to dev actions are a fallacy, since the devs also aren't fixing Huntress' obviously broken hatchet hitboxes, nor are they doing anything about camping, which is absolutely terrible for everyone involved.
Just because she hasn't been nerfed yet doesn't mean she's fine.
And just because people claim she wins all her matches does not mean she does.
Seriously, whenever a Killer has a power that denies loops, Survivors promptly claim said Killer is OP and 'wins all their matches', because all those Survivors want is 10 minute loops and their safe meta. They don't want to learn new tactics, pick new perks, or have to do something other than loop.
They want to log in, do gens, loop, twerk, and leave. Anything that breaks that chain is 'OP', 'Anti-fun', or 'Broken'.
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@Kumakx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2153481#Comment_2153481
If player is good, he is (USUALLY) facing other good players. Yet the spirit players is always winning, no matter what SWF group he is against.
Also fact, that you cant pull this crap on killers like wraith, trapper, legion, clown, demogorgon, myers and actually majority of killers does show something is up with spirit. Given those players sometimes completelly lose with other killers full geared up, but cant really lose as spirit.
If Spirit was half as strong as Survivors like to pretend, she would have been nerfed already. She does not 'always win'. Not by a long shot.
And yes, people can win as any other Killer, perkless. And even Spirits lose with full perks. You have nothing but hyperbole; if Spirit had a 100% win rate (you said she was 'always winning'), then she would have been nerfed long before now.
This is just more 'I can't EZ loop her, nerf!' couched in hyperbole.
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@Kumakx said:
Y'all who think spirit is fine - there are streamers, who run her with literally 1 random perk like shadowborn or perkless, no addons, and can get consistent 3-4k (depending on hatch luck). Now imagine if they played with actual build. STRIDOR and some ruin, devour, tinkerer, etc.
Also how fun is it to just flip a coin every time spirit stops moving, to guess if she is phasing or not? It's just boring af. Oh, i guess i missed 50/50, guess im going down, haha, such a fun game.
Ok? And there are some people who can run ANY Killer perkless & win. That does not mean the Killer is OP, it means the player is good.
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@swager21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2153429#Comment_2153429
i dont know how to put this. breakdown is a perk and if someone used it without knowing it's bannable (for example, they were trying to get adept jeff) then banning them would be unfair. sure the breakdown bug was an accident but you cant really blame anyone except for bhvr. im sure breakdown will get fixed in the next patch though
That's why I said abusing a bug is cheating. If you abuse it, then it's clear you know what it does & are using it to grief or get an unfair advantage.
If someone uses it repeatedly, they should be tamp-banned until the bug in question is fixed. Be it the Breakdown bug or any other bug. That is, of course, assume the bug can be replicated, and is not just wildly random.
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@swager21 said:
its technically not cheating. they manually programmed it into the game and its their fault. sure youre a scumbag if you abuse breakdown but nothing says that its bannable
Abusing a bug is cheating. If I abused a bug to insta-complete every generator, I'd be cheating.
And no, they did not manually program it; it's the result of a conflict in the code, or a typo. They did not mean to put it in.
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#1: No, and no.
Survivors do not get to decide who the Killer plays, nor do they get to decide if the Killer even gets a match. Just look at what happened before DC penalties/when it was removed for awhile; Survivors left matches for any little reason. The same thing would happen with a throw system.
And banning a Killer? No. If I buy the Clown, I want to play the Clown. Why should my opponents get to tell me who I can or cannot play?
The rest of your ideas are pretty neat, though.
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Hot Take: I want Wesker, but he HAS to be voiced by DC Douglas.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
It's a very nuanced and subtle method, and it looks like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HQ77ZUALJH3F/image.png
You can thank me later.
...It looks like Rank 1 NoED? (Kidding! :) )
I tend to get under my skin more than any opponent. I have an over-inflated sense of my own skill, a large competitive streak, and I get down on my self very easily. :(
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152575#Comment_2152575
When you get no benefit for facecamping them to death? If you want a personal victory, go right ahead and facecamp them. But you get more of both bloodpoints and pip points by finding and chasing other people.
That finding and chasing would end in 30 seconds, what with the exit gates powered up and all. I'm pretty sure the sacrifice would give more BP.
@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152575#Comment_2152575
Your argument is that the killer's right to enjoyment should take precedence over the survivor's. Either argument is selfish.
All players should be able to play in a way that they enjoy as long as it's not breaking the rules. The point is that if you feel like the only way you can have any fun after all 4 gens are done is to hook and camp a survivor then sure, that's fine, but don't act surprised or self-righteous when that survivor hates it.
I'm not saying that at all, and also I am. I am aware that one side or the other will hate it; no side likes to lose.
But I don't see Killers demanding Survivors jump onto meat hooks during the EGC because losing sucks. I DO, however, see Survivors demanding camping be changed. They are trying to demand Killers play a certain way that benefits them, and their enjoyment of the game, over the Killer's.
So that's the difference, when it comes to camping; one side is using 'anti-fun' as an excuse to try handicapping the other side. One side is trying to say 'My enjoyment takes precedence over yours' or 'You can only win if I approve of it', and since no one likes losing, that 'approval' would be pretty scanty.
Again, this is only about camping. I'm well aware both sides scream bloody murder over nerfs, buffs, and perks.
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@Unifall said:
Wow your post name made me laugh lmao. Yeah its worse tbh. But what if the blight isn't covered in pestula serum but grease and butter. They need to patch this immediately but seeing how long it takes them to fix the breakdown bug itll take till next year. So in the mean time enjoy your blight with a side of butter.
For April 1st next year, The Blight should get an outfit that covers him in pancakes, butter, and maple syrup. :D
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@MadLordJack said:
Honestly, there's no point facecamping someone to death. I know a lot of people do it because they want a kill, but a single kill almost literally means nothing in either bloodpoints or pips and you're making someone's trial miserable. So I just leave and go find people to chase so I can farm bloodpoints.
So...The Killer should let the Survivor go, simply because they will be sad they died? Nevermind the lost BP (regardless of how much). The Survivors enjoyment should take precedent over the Killer's enjoyment (that camped kill can mean the difference between a miserable 0 kills or maybe 1 or 2, which can change their enjoyment), and over the Killer's stats at the end of the game (BP and pips)?
That's basically what you're saying. The Killer should just give up and leave so the Survivor is not sad.
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@LegendaryLee said:
You can try and validate it as a valid strategy for a killer but on the flip side, one player literally just gets cancelled out of a game without playing at that point, its anti fun. I think rather than try to preserve camping strategies we can buff other ways for killers to be strong if we have to but one hook killing someone isn't really skillful or fun.
While you're not wrong, it's also part of the game.
Look at any FPS without respawns, like CS:GO. If you're the first one shot, do you claim it's 'anti fun' and ask for changes so it does not happen again? I mean, the first one shot is just cancelled out of the match without playing, but it's accepted as part of the game.
Why is it different here? Someone has to die first; why does it matter how it happens? Or when? When matches are 5-7 minutes long, how fair is it to ask for mechanics to prevent the Killer from killing for <x> amount of time, simply because it's 'anti-fun'?
What about the Killer's fun? What about the times where he needs to camp to slow down gen momentum? That first kill can mean the difference between 0 kills and a 4K, sometimes. It's TWO less people doing gens; one on the hook, and one trying to save them. Why should the Killer be forced (as some suggestions are nothing more than forcing the Killer to stop camping) to let the hooked person go? Then you go from 50% working on gens to 100% working on gens again.
Just because no one likes to be the first to go down does not mean you change it, or NO ONE would get killed.
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@Soulpaw said:
so heres the best tip that i can give you for playing blight, (disclaimer, i am not a blight main nor do i J-flick but i've been picking him up and learning him for the past 4 months now.) use your power to patrol or to catch up to the survivor. not at loops unless your confident that you can get the hit.
Theres too much room for big errors to use his power at a loop so take advantage of his size and mind game instead until they flee the loop or drop the pallet then charge at em for a quick hit when they are in the open.
Thanks, yeah. I've learned that alert survivors will just jack-knife 180 degrees and avoid a Lethal Rush. Same as dodging a Billy, really.
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It's just frustrating to go into a match with 1 or 2 perk slots unlocked, level 1 perks, and the game goes 'Here's 4 survivors with full-meta level 3 perks!' and on top of that, the utter horrible MM goes 'And you're rank 15? Here's rank 4's!'
At that point, you're not only losing by skill level due to the matchmaking (More like unmatchmaking) but just the sheer difference in perks. You could be a rank 5 going against rank 18's; if you had 2 level 1 perks, and they had full-meta kits and a passing knowledge of how to use them; you lose.
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And my second match was more meta perks. And a rank 9. I'm rank 15, using a level 5 Killer.
Really great way to try learning a hard killer; by going up again 4 survivors running full meta every time AND being matched with people 6+ ranks better than me.
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@LegendaryLee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2151289#Comment_2151289
I'm glad we agree on the points for the hooked player, I think that would alleviate some unnecessary grief experienced in the game. It is a consolation reward essentially which are kinda lame but its certainly better than losing pips instead.
I wasn't aware that they tried something similar to the first idea but I don't think that the idea is bad simply because a version of the idea has been tried already. I think there's a middle ground that can be made to improve the game for all parties. And no, I do not wish to punish killers for doing their job of killing but seriously name me a game where camping was seen as a fun strategy to play against. There's none that come to mind for me. Every tension point in any game should be fielded with the question "is it fun?", and for the hooked survivor dying to one hook, that answer is 99% of the time no. Perhaps that's the key part to fix, trying to make it harder to one hook kill someone through camping- what are your thoughts on that?
I think it would work out fine if the range was like 8m or 10m, the killer can stay close by without slowing the sacrifice but not close enough to block off all options of approach to get to the unhook. Again, the distance for how far the killer should be to not slow the sacrifice is debatable but if the amount of slow is a buildup to a cap based on how long he sits there then it becomes a game of territory control between the non hooked survivors and the killer- which is way more interactive. The survivors are rewarded for pressuring the killer into a tighter circle and the killer should be trying to not be contained to a small area regardless. I feel that dynamic can be healthy if done right.
Camping may be a strategy but it should have more interactive counterplay than a team abandoning a teammate to do gens across the map while the killer sits next to a player who can't do anything at that point. It's lame no matter how you slice it. All aspects of the game should be highly interactive.
The perk idea was a toss up, just shooting ideas but it certainly isn't free, it would require the killer to be within a small, specific range of the hooked player for however many seconds and like deliverance would only be available on first hook state. It's no more annoying to a killer than DS and probably less so since the killer has direct control over this.
One of the problems comes about when you look at WHY a Killer might be hook camping.
Sure, to be a jerk. That's one reason.
But what about because 3 gens popped, and this is their first hook? They feel pressured to make sure this Survivor does not get away, lets they don't get ANY kills.
Or how about when I hook someone, and all 3 remaining Survivors hide nearby? Why would I walk away, and why should I, as the Killer, be punished or otherwise have mechanics work against me, just because Survivors are trying to get a 4K escape? I mean, I have all I want right there; someone on the hook, and 3 people not doing gens because they all want to rescue their friend.
When you start throwing in punishments or forced counterplay against those two categories, you're actively punishing the Killer for doing his objective. Or punishing the Killer because the Survivors are playing badly (IE: Hiding near the hook instead of doing gens). And those two reasons are why the devs won't punish or deter camping; because there is no way to code a game to know 'This camper is being a jerk' or 'This one is doing it because it's working'.
It hate to say it, but the best counter play is to just do generators. No Survivor deserves a free unhook, or mechanics or perks to force an unhook or punish camping, simply because they don't like to lose. And that's one of the things behind the whole 'punish camping' movement; people believing that they deserve more 'fun' in the match, or more time to play. Even at the detriment of the Killer doing his objective. Because they don't find it fun to lose, so clearly the Killer should not be allowed to make them lose until they have had some arbitrary amount of fun, or they want to determine when it's okay for themselves to be removed from the game.
Someone is always going to be the first hooked, and sometimes they won't be saved. It's not up to the game, or the Survivors, to decide when the Killer can and cannot kill.
Imagine if that happened in an FPS; you're on a killing streak. You must have gotten 15 kills on the other team...and now your gun jams, or your powers stop working, or your accuracy starts to drift. And the devs claim it's a mechanic so the other team does not get defeated too quickly. Because that would not be fun for them. Well, it would not be fun for you to have your hands arbitrarily get tied for playing your objective (Be that objective killing the enemy team, capping a point, or sacrificing a Survivor), would it?
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152107#Comment_2152107
ah, I remember those days!
Don't forget that you can permanently destroy bear traps!
My boi Trapper is still weak, but at least that has changed.
*Holds up sad, ripped little 'Trapper' pennant* Someday, they will buff you proper, my boy. Some day.😪
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@n0suchluck said:
You capitalize the words "do not" but follow it by saying "kind of". Which is it? Kind of or do not?
As for your rant, this point has been made plenty of times and universally agreed upon. So yeah man, I feel ya!
It was a valid statement. I kind of do not want to play him now that I have him, because I know I'll get steamrolled and not even learn his mechanics that well before the match ends.
Maybe if I can convince myself that being an eldritch pinball is fun...Maybe BHVR should give him a skin that makes pinball noises when you bounce off walls, and flashes 'TILT' when you down a Survivor from a Lethal Rush.
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No. There was already an attempt to make the Struggle meter go slower if the Killer way nearby, and Survivors abused it.
Gen Survivor would work on gens.
Bait Survivors #1 & #2 would stand far enough away from the hook that the Killer could not chase them easily. Thus, the timer was slowed.
If the Killer went after #1, #2 would go for a save, forcing the Killer to back up, and thus keeping the Struggle meter slowed.
Flip it if he went after #2. Again; the Survivors were visible, but far enough away that the Killer would have to work for the chase.
This meant, either the Killer had to camp hook (thus slowing the meter, thus giving Gen Survivor ample time to solo gens), or he had to give up and let Survivors unhook their friend.
As for the third idea; really? No. Why should the Survivor get a free unhook just because they got caught? This is, like the first idea, just a way to punish Killers for attempting to confirm a kill. Do you see any perks that shove Survivors off generators & lock them if they hit too many great skill checks in a row?
Why do you want to punish Killers for doing their job, which is to kill you? Sorry, but your ideas are, in order; an idea that was already abused, and an idea that just gives a free unhook for no reason.
I do agree that Survivors should get points if the Killer stays nearby, however. To take the sting out of being camped. Something about being distracting, or keeping the Killer's attention while on the hook.
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Honestly, Trapper should start carrying all his traps, then have a limit on how many he can pick back up. Basically, he can place each one, but until he goes under his limit (as determined by his addons), he cannot pick any back up.
This change is for 2 reasons:
It cuts out the time spent finding & picking up traps (Something other trap-based Killers like Hag, Freddy, and Demogorg (for his portals) never have to do)
Forces him to think about trap placement, since he cannot move them until he's placed them all.
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Hey now, I'm a streamer Cough 2 viewers Cough :P Not DBD, though.
I firmly believe that being a toxic person poisons your soul, so to speak. You fall into a habit of getting angry & making excuses, which means you can't learn from your mistakes, which leads to making those same mistakes over and over again, then getting angry & making excuses, then not learning, etc.
Soon, the game stops being fun because 'everyone cheats' or 'The mechanics hold me back', and then what's the point of playing? Just to get more angry?
And if you have a viewer base, you then spreading the poison. They'll mimic what they saw their favorite twitch streamers do or say. (Which is why I stopped watching Ohmwrecker's DBD videos; if the Killer does ANYTHING intelligent, he squawks 'He's tunneling!'. Youtubers/streamers need to learn that their actions will be parroted by their fans, and act accordingly).
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Lol. I once had a 2 man SWF literally throw away the 2 pubs, then 1 of the SWF killed himself on first hook, so his friend could jump into the hatch.
And said hatch escaper acted like it took mad skills to sit on top of the hatch & wait for it to open. He was belittling my skills & insulting me, since it was clear I sucked since ONE person got away on the graces of his teammate giving up. Made me laugh so hard.
I got a 3K but because he hatch-humped, he was clearly the next TRUtalent. Rofl.
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I was playing Clown last night (I'm a bad clown). I had 1 dead and 1 exit gate was opened, and I managed to hook another Survivor 5 feet from the open gate
Through guts, quick thinking, and a flashlight, the Survivors unhook her, but trade a different Survivor in her place. The Survivors leave, because they are now both injured.
The one PC Survivor (the other 3 were console and could not use end game chat) starts with 'Camper!' and I say 'I have meat & and open gate; why would I move?'
Survivor: ...That's true.
Me: Plus; look at this stomach; I did not get this fat chasing Survivors!
Survivor: Lol! gg :)
I'm kind of proud I turned even a little salt into a laugh. And kudos to that survivor for taking it in stride! Because I did camp! But if I left, that Survivor would have been unhooked & out the gate in 3 seconds. It was the only smart Killer play I had left.
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@Grimzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2149700#Comment_2149700
Dont like those at all. That is basically limiting survivor gameplay extremely.
I would rather they give somewhat alternative ways of escaping.
Yeah. The problem with extra objectives is apparent with Totems, though:
If Survivors ignore them to get sub-5 minute matches; they complain the perks tied to them are OP.
If Survivors clear them; Killers complain the perks are useless because they get turned off.
It's danged if you do/danged if you don't. Survivors want faster matches, Killers want slower matches. I, personally, do think the matches are a little too fast, which means Killers are pressured to slug, tunnel, and camp, since they HAVE to remove a player ASAP in order to slow things down and get more breathing room.
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Honestly?
I'd balance it so only 2 generators can be worked on at the start, though all are on the map. When Survivors near a generator, they are given a notification if it can be worked on or not. Killers do not get this notification; they have to guess (unless they see Survivors working on a gen, of course).
When a generator is completed, it's rendered 'inactive' and an inactive generator goes active.
If a generator has progress, but has not been touched in awhile, it will go inactive, and a new generator will go active (to prevent Killers from camping). An inactive generator cannot be kicked, and it keeps any progress it has. A generator cannot go inactive if it is being worked on, or has been kicked.
In the event of a 3 gen (IE: The remaining generators cycle through 'active status a few times without being progressed or regressed); an already completed generator will drop back to 0% and be made active. This does not reset Survivor's generator counts! If they only needed 1 more generator, they still only need 1 more generator!