Power_Guy
Power_Guy
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158913#Comment_2158913
People don’t like losing by default.
Where the Killer didn’t actually play a very good game but won by abusing mechanics. Whether it be slugging, hard camping, no ed or even a three gen.
A better Killer could have won by playing normally, but instead the Survivors got someone who was compensating for their lack of skill.
It’s literally possible to “win” this game by hard tunneling a player out of the game by camping and winning the bet that the Survivor didn’t bring DS to get them out ASAP.
I see, 'abusing mechanics' that are in the game, including tactics, a perk, or survivors putting themselves in a 3 gen.
So all that is the Killer 'abusing mechanics', and one of them is the Survivors actively screwing up, but the Killer's fault he acted on it, huh? How dare that Killer not give away generators in a 3 gen situation! A BETTER Killer would have!
Your bias is showing.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158788#Comment_2158788
How did they abuse it?
Ok, so the Killer is near the hooked Survivor.
1 Survivor does gens.
Survivors 2 & 3 stand 50 yards away, in the open. They are far enough away that the game does not register a chase. Thus, Hooked Survivor has a slowed (or stopped, as some people suggest) Struggle Meter.
They are ALSO so far away that they can run away if the Killer walks towards them, thus delaying a chase from activating for a good 5-9 seconds.
If Killer goes after #2, then #3 walks towards the hook. If the Killer turns around; #3 backs up, #2 resets. A chase never started (due to the distance), so Hooked Survivor still has a slowed Struggle Meter. #1 is still doing gens with all the time in the world.
In order to start a chase, given the distances involved, the Killer would have to move so far away that one of the free Survivors gets an unhook. This meant that the Killer has 2 choices:
- Camp with a slowed (or stopped, as some people suggest) Struggle meter, giving #1 more than enough times to solo every gen.
- Commit to a chase, giving one of the 2 Survivors a free unhook, because he can't do anything else to stop them.
It was actively forcing the Killer to allow unhooks, because it gave Survivors more time to do gens and just stand around. This was why it was never moved past the PTB. Twice.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158886#Comment_2158886
not exactly. They do the opposite of what you do, like how your right hand is on the left side of a mirror.
Ahhh. So if you go left, it goes right, and runs away from you. That does make more sense.
@Ferrari334 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/247078/perk-idea-juke-them
The problem with ultra strong perks is that 4 survivors can run them, which makes it a little too strong; just like the old DS.
The effect is simply too strong in a game where seconds matter. Id have no issue with perks that enable clean getaways if games weren't over so fast against competent teams.
Also true, but we need some new perks to shake up the meta. :)
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158801#Comment_2158801
You really don’t get it at all.
A camped Survivor is at their absolute weakest with little to no options at all. Everything is up to their team to give them their best chance.
Even in a 1v4 game. The four should still have some degree of autonomy and not be screwed over for reasons completely out of their control.
Except getting 'screwed over outside their control' is how they lose. It's literally how the Killer wins; he sticks people on hooks, where they can't do anything without help.
Then, he tries his best to prevent that help from happening, or he has to waste more time re-hooking. Time he does not have as more and more gens pop.
That's why I hate 'nerf/punish camping!' threads. It's just people saying 'I don't like losing.'
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158859#Comment_2158859
Well basically, let's say the perk activates and then you turn left. So the scratch marks created by this perk would make a turn to the right, as if a player was making them.
Ahh. I thought so. Hmm...Maybe? I feel like that could be annoying to code, or even give away the user...I mean, if you send it out, then turn left, aren't the new scratch marks just 3 feet to your side & running parallel to you? Since they turned left instead of continuing to run away from your point of origin.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158840#Comment_2158840
They both serve the same purpose, produce scratch marks, with the exact same use case.
But anyway, I'd probably tweak this perk a bit so that on top of the original effect, you get no scratch marks for a certain amount of time and your movements are reflected by those fake scratch marks.
I actually did not know that Diversion made scratch marks. I apologize. I thought it only did the noise, so I figured a scratch mark perk would be unique.
What what do you mean by your movements being reflected by the scratch marks? That sounds like it could be a headache, unless I'm misunderstanding. The way I picture my skill is that it basically makes an invisible Survivor sprint for 4 seconds in the direction you point, while you stop leaving scratch marks.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158820#Comment_2158820
I keep telling you and you keep conveniently ignoring the fact that I never said I don’t want killers to kill. Also your csgo analogy make 0 sense because as somone who has played cs for years if I get instantly killed early on in that game I know and understand that they other player in 90% of cases out aimed me and he was the better and more skillful player meanwhile in dbd there is nothing skillful at all about a bubba sitting at your hook staring and you until you die. As I said multiple times: I want there to be more skillful ways of getting players out early that are fair for BOTH sides. There is a reason my favorite matches of this game are when I’m against a deathslinger that is not tunneling or camping: he is a very skill based killer and it flat out comes down to who is the better player in the end
Oh, so it's only unfair if you don't consider the Killer skilled. So it comes down to what you, personally, approve of.
I'm the Killer, if I kill and hook you and want you dead; that is my goal. I'm in no way obligated to ask you if you've played enough before I kill you. And if the game forced me to give away unhooks simply to make my OPPONENT happy, I'd quit.
Just like I'd expect Survivors to get angry if the game threw them off the generators to give the Killer more time (you know; so he has fun).
You're literally asking that the devs cater to what YOU think is 'fair' instead of accepting the way the game works. I'd get laughed off the forums if I made a post stating I want Survivors to get blocked by generators if they do them too fast, because it's unfair that I lose so quickly.
Because that's the flip side to the 'camping' coin. Both are just complaints of 'I lost too fast/unfairly!'
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158826#Comment_2158826
I can't because this is literally the exact same thing as Diversion, except for the method by which it gets activated and the fact that Diversion produces a noise notification.
So it's exactly like Diversion, except for how it activates...and how it works...and how it distracts the Killer.
I see.
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@DoritoHead said:
Just use Diversion
Ok, I guess we'll never make new perks?
Why not just judge the perk on its own merit?
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158779#Comment_2158779
Never said the killer shouldn’t kill. Gen rushing doesn’t force the killer to sit afk for the whole match and makes the unable to play, camping forces the survivor getting camped to sit afk doing nothing the whole match and ######### his rank over for it. Stop trying to twist things to fit your agenda of wanting killers or be op and before you said I want survivors to be op go back and read what I said, I specifically pointed out that buffing killers to compensate should happen.
That's part of the game. Whining that you got knocked out fast is 'unfair' is like whining that you died first in CS:GO; both events knock you out of the game.
Why should the Killer be penalized for DOING HIS GOAL OF KILLING YOU just because you did not like dying first? Or fast? Where's the time limit preventing the Killer from hooking people so they get some sort of 'fun quota' per match?
If you can't hand that sometimes you die first, and/or fast, and get knocked out of the game...then maybe that game ain't for you. Asking for an overhaul of the mechanics to cater to you & let you play longer because 'losing not fun' is insanely entitled.
Moreso when you realize you're asking for ANOTHER PLAYER to have his hands tied just so you can play longer. Because losing is not fun.
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JFC.
The Devs already worked with the whole 'Survivor struggles slower if the Killer camps'. Survivors abused it.
People need to stop asking for ways to prevent the Killer from winning. That's literally what people are saying when they ask for 'camping' punishments. 'It's not fun that I lost, please punish the Killer for doing something I dislike'.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
Camping and tunneling should be removed from the game though. They are toxic unfun strategies to face and they shouldn’t exist. Now if removing them would weaken a lot of killers then that’s as simple as buffing those weakened killers to make up for it. Toxic and unfun strategies should be replaced with strategies that offer more to play around for both sides and more gameplay to enjoy.
Genrushing should be removed from the game, though. It's a toxic and unfun strat that should not exist. It ends the match before the Killer gets to play.
See how silly it sounds? You're whining that the Killer should not be able to kill you because it's not fun to lose.
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Complaining about camping/slugging/tunneling is basically just saying 'I'm angry I lost, and I'm going to shift the blame off of myself, because I expect Killers to play in a way I deem acceptable. Please, devs, add my rules to the game so I can have easier matches.'
It's funny that people claim killers can't:
- Slug
- Camp
- Tunnel
- Use 'crutch' perks
- Use 'crutch' Killers
What CAN Killers do? According to allot of people here; anything except win. Winning is unfair. Playing optimally is unfair (except for Survivors; Survivors get 4 meta perks, genrush, and play in SWF groups with voice comms).
But Killers can't play optimally, or it needs changing. Survivors can genrush (IE: Play their objective fast), but killers can't camp (IE: Ensure a kill, and thus slow down the Survivor's momentum). If they do this; The Killer should actively lose BP! Or be removed from the hook zone! Or be unable to grab Survivors!
ANYTHING to give Survivors an EZ game! Anything where they lose is cheap! Stop being cheap and let Survivors win! Rofl.
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Oh yes, let's give the Survivors weapons.
Let's turn it into an FPS while we're at it. Because that won't ruin everything about the game.
/s
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No, because neither is a problem.
'Hook rushing' is a misplay, and people should be punished for bad plays. Not have the game hold their hand & prevent it. (Which, if you think about it, is a Killer nerf; the Survivors can no longer mess up with a hook rush, so the Killer gets less downs)
'Camping' is a valid tactic to remove one Survivor from the game. Which is the Killer's goal. Why can no one understand that the KILLER'S goal is TO KILL YOU. Not to ask you if it's okay if he hooks you, but he will totally still let you go later.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2157931#Comment_2157931
you can punish camping with out survivors abusing it the devs just don’t want to because they are killer mains. It’s as simple as making the hook timer either go extremely slow or stop completely if the killer is within a certain radius of the hook unless he is in a chase. Survivors cant abuse this because the killer will chase them and the hook timer will still go down and the radius can be small enough so the hook saves are not safe and the killer can still prevent them.
That idea was actually tried on the PTB, twice.
Survivors abused it, twice.
They would stands 50 meters out; it would take the Killer leaving the hook to start a chase (and thus, the struggle meter was slowed). The killer either had to keep camping, seeing 2 people standing around, ready to unhook if he left (and leaving 1 to do gens while the hooked person had a slow meter).
Or he had to chase one, and let the other unhook. Because the Survivors would move away if the Killer started to move (thus making it take longer to start a chase)
So your idea was abused.
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Lol. How do you even fix 'camping' and 'slugging' without giving Survivors free, safe unhooks they don't deserve? Or without ending up punishing Killers when camping is a viable strat to win?
Ohhhh, riiight; 99% of 'punish camping!' threads are one of two things:
- Survivors wanting free, safe unhooks they don't deserve. Because it's easier than learning when to unhook and when not too. They just want all the unhooks NOW.
- Survivors wanting Killers punished for breaking their personal rules. These are the types of people who go onto an FPS forum and scream 'Snipers are cheap! The devs should ban all sniper users, because I hate them!' And actually think the devs will agree.
The bottom line is that camping is valid, and camping is needed. You can't 'make camping less valid' without giving Survivors something they can abuse to high hell, or otherwise punish Killers for playing their objective.
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@Saltjar34 said:
The problem with this idea is that SWF can use it far better than solo can and the killer won't be able to do anything about the perk due to them lacking their own totem destruction mechanic. Also each survivor can have 4 perks. There are only 5 totems in the map. How would that work?
One totem can have multiple hexes. So Survivors will not know which totem has their hex, or a teammates hex, or a Killer's hex.
So if Survivors bring their own hex perks, they have to decide if cleansing is worth it; will they cleanse Hex: Ruin, or will it be one of their hexes? Or will it be both in one hex?
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He should start carrying all his traps, but he can't pick any up that he places until he goes under his carry limit (Base being 1, or 2 or 3 with add-ons.)
This would allow him to set up quicker.
His traps should also be invisible over 25 meters away (numbers can be changed for balancing sake).
This would counter SWFs who have one person on lookout, and make it more likely that a Survivor will run into one during a chase. But a survivor creeping around and looking for traps slowly will see it long before they step in it.
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I think it would be OP. Key & map, like you said. Or a flashlight & medkit. Or two if the same item...Basically, the game is not balanced for it, and imagine if every surprise did it! 8 medkits is 8 more health states. Say goodbye to winning. Or just hello to a LONG match.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156483#Comment_2156483
People don't play killer for the bp, so why would you care to lose bp? Especially when you play killer as a noob when you face camp hook?
Man up as survivor? How about you man up as a killer? OH NO it's a small asian woman wearing a pink bunny hoodie going clicky clicky!!!!
Dude come on. Have you ever been hook camped before? I'm not advocating its banning but a bp penalty increase. That's all. What's the point in playing a game if the killer can choose one person and say ok, your not getting any points this game. Then proceed to camp/tunnel the person to death? Then when YOU proceed to m1 attack a person already on a hook, why not give them distraction points.
You then cant complain about gen rushing either if that's the only other viable option for the team
I never complain about gen rushing. it's survivors playing their objective.
And I've been camped, back when I played Survivor; I once had a guy chase me down, hook me, and just stare in my face. My friend was poking him with the 'point' command. When I WAS unhooked, he chased me down again and hooked me again. Then stood there once more.
I was laughing so hard at how absurd it was. This guy HATED me, for some reason. Or hated Dwight.
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You can infinitely break hooks if I can infinitely carry you. Fair is fair; one infinite for another.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156452#Comment_2156452
Yes those perks have that speed but I don’t run any of those perks since I don’t like those perks. You shouldnt have to run a perk to counter a killer you potentially come across. You should run perks to create a play style that you enjoy. Also I never complained about pre buff wraith as he was actually fun to go against and even when I died to him I wasn’t too upset because it was actually an enjoyable game. Unlike right now where I go against him every game and all he does it run at Mach 50 to get ahead of me, force me to turn around while he uncloaks, and then still get to hit me for free because of the stupid movement speed burst he gets. He needs to be changed.
'You should not need perks to counter a Killer' = 'I want every Killer to be base movement & loopable'.
So every Killer should be easy to counter, and perks should just be 'for fun', while Killers have to work for every kill. And let's not forget the people demanding 'Camping' be punishable. 'Slugging' as well. And 'Tunneling' needs to go, too...
So, basically, Killers should not be allowed to kill Survivors, is what I get from this place. They should be BP farms and punching bags before Survivors pop all 5 gens with their 4 meta perks and twerk out the gates.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155975#Comment_2155975
Dude I played trapper last night. I got 90k+ BP and 2 people escaped hatch.
Surviors make like 10-20+ bp a game, less if they get tunneled and camped.
So if you, the killer, are gonna sit at the hook, why not increase the already existing penalty, to discourage poor behaviors. AND give those points to the hooked survivor you are camping. Because as you know, distracting the killer while dangling on a hook is pure strategy on the survivors part clearly and should be rewarded. How else are surviors supposed to gen rush and make you cry. We put ourselves on a hook for you to stare and and M1.
this change wont affect many killers, unless you admit to hook camping which only very few people even admit too.
Just give the hanging Survivor BP for being camped.
The only reason to punish Killers for what is sometimes a valid play style is pure spite. All these suggestions are just 'Punish Killers for doing something I don't like'.
I've been here 3 days and all I see are posts of people demanding Killers be 'punished' for a play style BHVR themselves have said is valid. A play style that, while I don't do it often, happens frequently enough that I'd flip my blip if I got punished for it.
Sometimes camping is how you get that kill needed to slow stuff down. if I lost BP, or the Survivor COULD NOT DIE (it was suggested elsewhere), thus denying me that momentum-swing I needed to win; there'd be 0 point to playing Killer.
It would become a Survivor bully simulator, where the Killer is only allowed a hook when the Survivors say so and how they say so.
Camping is fine. Man up and accept that it sometimes happens and is sometimes valid, instead of screaming for bad mechanics and massive BP punishments just because you're salty.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
The wraith buff was a mistake and should be reverted ASAP. Yes he was too weak before but now he is borderline op and on certain maps he has almost no counterplay. Undo his recent buff and buff and give him a different buff to work with.
And then Survivors will claim THAT buff is OP and to undo it and try something else.
And then they will claim THAT buff is op and...
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Actually, the lore states, when someone is killed, the Entity revives them and wipes the death from their mind. This is so they don't lose hope too fast (or otherwise get used to dying).
So the people running with you at the end are healed/revived, unaware of what happened, so they will continue to hope that they can escape when they open the gates next time.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156158#Comment_2156158
OK so just to be clear the abuse your talking about is that the killer will not win while camping?
If I'm missing something Is there anything I apologize so just to make sure is there anythung the survivors can do that would be worse for the killer than say doing nothing in a corner. Becuase if not then it's not a matter of abuse it's a matter of the killer will simply not be able to camp anymore. Which again is the entire point.
If your point is that this is unfair becuade it will stop camping than it sounds to me like the proposal works exactly as intended with no way to abuse it. But if there is a way I would like to know to tweak the rules proposed.
And again don't bother saying camping is legitimate play or stopping it is bad becuase survivors shouldn't complain. 1 becuase no one says camping is not legal/legit it is permitted and definitely a good way to win. 2. Becuase the whole point is to propose a change just like with the keys. Or do you think the keys are working great and shouldn't be changed?
I'm saying it's a bad mechanic because it does one of two things:
- Gives Survivors infinite time to do gens while forcing the Killer to camp.
- Forces the Killer to walk away so Survivors get a free unhook.
The reason you can't see it as being abused is because you can't look past 'Camping bad!'. If I'm at the hook, and a Survivor's near the hook; Why should I be punished with a slow/stopped Struggle Meter for my meat?
But if the Survivors are VISIBLY NEARBY BUT OUTSIDE THE CHASE, that's exactly what happens; I know the Survivors are there, but I'm not in a chase. Now I, as the Killer, have to walk away from the hook, because the hooked Survivor will never (or more slowly) die.
If I commit to one chase, another Survivor unhooks. And that should be MY CHOICE as the Killer. Not forced on me buy a BS mechanic forcing me to leave because I can't win otherwise.
If you can't see that, then you have no objectivity. All you see is 'camping = bad' and think any wild idea WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN TRIED AND ABUSED should be added back in, because you don't like camping.
I'm done. I've told you, multiple times, how it was abused, because IT WAS ABUSED, and you sit there and go 'I don't see how it can be abused!'. IT ALREADY WAS. What you 'don't see' does not matter.
All you see is a massive middle finger to Killers that you like because it removes a mechanic you, personally, don't like. That's not balance. That's bias.
Peace.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156024#Comment_2156024
I'm not sure on one thing though.
so I'd like to compare this to the example if the two survivors didn't just hang out in view of the killer and say stuck in a corner or on a gen or something.
I think you'll agree there is no abuse in this case.
Now to compare ti your exampleIn your example the 2 try and bait away the killer the killer,
Is the result not the same for the killer? He's hanging around and nothings happening. The only difference is in your example he atleast has the option to go chase another survivor without looking for them. Arguably this puts him in a better passion than if the survivors never show up and he just stays there by the hook. Especially if the two bait survivors hung around a gen to work somewhere.
So to be clear I'm looking for an explanation as to either how my example is an abuse, or how your example is not worse for the killer than mine.
Oh I just thought you may be referring to the killer being able to stay by the hooked survivor to prevent his escape, but he can do the same in your example by ignoring the survivors I mean if they sit 30 feet from him doing nothing that's better for him than if the are anywhere else doing a gen like my example
Yes but with your punishment, if the Survivors 'hang nearby', then the Killer is sitting on a hook, giving the 3rd Survivor infinite time to do generators (remember; the Struggle Meter is slowed or stopped if the Killer is nearby & not in a chase. That's the idea that was offered.).
So, at that point, it does not matter if 2 Survivors are standing around; they still eventually win, or the Killer has to give up a free unhook.
And again; no mechanic should force the killer to play badly just because Survivors don't like a playstyle that the Devs already said was valid.
So no, camping should not be punishable just because it makes a handful of people salty. And doubly no to it being punished in such a blatantly abuseable way. Why is it blatantly abuseable? Because it already was abused.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155968#Comment_2155968
OK so just to be clear you don't want to change keys becuase Survivors whoild never be forced to give up on a chance to escape right?
As for survivor abuse you mentioned I would like to hear how it worked, provided the abuse doesn't just involve the killer being forced to stop camping the hook becuase if thats the stated goal, so if you could explain how the survivors could abuse the timer stop bearing in mind if the are leading the killer to the hook in a chase the timer will start up agaim
Ok. I will try to describe how it worked.
1 Survivor Worked on generators (Gen Survivor)
Bait Survivors #1 & #2 (BSs) would stand 50+ meters out, clearly visible to the hook.
There would be no chase, so the Struggle Meter was slowed.
If the Killer moved towards BS1, BS1 would run away, thereby increasing the length of time before the game would say 'This is a chase'. And BS2 would move towards the hook.
Flip it if he went after BS2.
This meant the Killer had to commit to a chase to make the chase music happen. At that point, he would be too far away from the hook to stop an unhooking.
If he did not commit, the chase never started, and the Struggle Meter stayed slowed.
This meant, he would either camp for the kill (which took 50% longer than it does now, due to that horrible mechanic) or be forced to walk away & allow a free unhook, because BS 1 and BS 2 would ALWAYS be just outside his range, while GS (Gen Survivor) worked on Gens.
Now do you understand how it was abused, twice?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/246764/hook-grabs-should-be-removed
I agree. Remove it for unhooks. It has nothing to do with unsafe hooks. Its an attempt to prevent killers from facecamping hook, because you're removing a benefit to face camping hook.
Otherwise I like my suggestion in another thread. Increase BP penalties to killers that camp hook. Then give bp to the survivor that's hooked for distracting the killer.
And up next on horrible, spiteful ideas that will never be in the game...'Let's remove BP from the Killer for doing something I don't like.'
Ok; if you do generators too fast, I get your BP. I mean, since you're punishing me for doing my objective...Oh wait; it only works one way, right? Only Killers can play unfairly?
I mean, it's not like they have to counter 16 meta perks in one match that goes by in under 6 minutes...
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155931#Comment_2155931
You seem surprised that I'm talking about getting rid of camping considering hiw up front I was about it. This whole thing was about addressing two things players hate. Survivors hate campers and killers hate the keys. It's perfectly valid to abuse camping its in the game. It's perfectly valid to abuse keys there in the game.
The whole point was to remove both these things because they are terribly unfun to play against. I won't speak for killer mains but the consus seems to be key abuse KS aweful and should be addressed. Are you saying it shouldn't be addressed because it's already in the game?
The problem is that you can't punish 'camping' without actually implementing something that Survivors can abuse.
This is not a hypothetical; it was tried. Survivors abused it. The Killer was forked to either stay near the hook (thus giving free time for 1 Survivor to do gens, since the Struggle Meter was slowed down), or forced to give away an unhook.
The Killer should NEVER be forced to give away an unhook. No more than Survivors should be forced away from generators for doing them 'too fast'. Their objective is to kill you. And you don't get to decide how.
I don't see how I can be any clearer; this whole 'punish' idea was tried. It happened. This is not a thought experiment. SURVIVORS ABUSED IT. And now you want it back because...you think Killers should give away free unhooks. That's not biased at all.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155917#Comment_2155917
Right and were working on a decent definition of it. Most have a fair consistent def of camping/tunneling ie chasing one survivor to the exclusion of all others. Don't really have thay with gen rushing
Except I've been called a 'tunneler' because I hit the unhooked Survivor...while he was cleansing a totem.
And I've been called a 'camper' because Survivors #2 was 3 feet behind me while I hooked her friend, and actually expected me to walk away. She actually thought Killers would have to give free unhooks, or they were 'camping'.
So your definitions are bupkis. The terms just exist to shift the blame for losing.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155901#Comment_2155901
Camping is always a good strategy to win. I'm not saying it isn't. The point is to make it so that it isn't a good stratrgybso that killers STOP CAMPING.
If your looking for a method to not stop camping your in the wrong place. That's the compromise part. The killers lose easy camping wins the survivors the easy key wins
So you just admitted that you want to remove camping as a strategy. Why? Because bad survivors don't like it? You just said it can be valid, then also state you want to remove it. Because...You don't approve? It's not your place to decide how the other side wins.
That would be like Killers wanting a punishment for 'gen rushing'; all it is is one side or the other whining about the opposite side doing their objective in a way they don't like.
That's all these threads ever are, be it 'camping' or 'gen rushing', it's just people wanting to remove play styles they, personally, don't like. They use flimsy excuses like 'anti-fun' (losing is never as fun as winning), and try to shame people with phrases like 'noob' and 'bad players use/do that!'.
How about you worry about doing generators, and I'll worry about how I hook people? Because it's pretty clear that either side just wants to shut down ways the other side wins.
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Gen rushing is like 'tunneling' and 'camping'; salty buzzwords bad players invented to blame the other side for 'playing unfairly'.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155887#Comment_2155887
The whole point is to make the killer leave and not camp you realize right? If the killer insists on staying near the hook the survivors don't even have to taunt the killer to lure him away because the hook timer will not progress if he's camping.
Except sometimes camping is valid. Why should the Killer have to leave when 2 people are standing right there? Why should the Killer be punished for 2 people loitering nearby, waiting for your free unhook?
Your idea rests on the idea that ALL hook camping is invalid and unfair. If I have 2 Survivors twerking 50 meters away form the hook, I should not be punished for standing there. THEY are not doing gens. THEY are keeping the Killer near the hooked player.
Why should they get a free unhook? Just because low skill Survivors have this idea that unhooks should be free? That Killers should be punished for not following a made-up rule against 'camping'? No.
Hence why this very same idea was scrapped after being abused. TWICE. Because it was abused and punished legitimate camping, and forced free unhooks.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155639#Comment_2155639
I'm sorry I don't follow how do the survivors prevent a chase? If the killer chases them either they run and are chased or get hit and go down I suppose?
They stay far enough away that, for a chase to start, the Killer will be too far away from the hook to stop a save from happening.
Basically, if the Killer commits; he gives up the hook.
If he does NOT commit, the chase never starts, and thus the struggle meter is slowed (or stopped, as per the suggestion here).
That has been abused, twice, on the PTB. It's not coming back.
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@wxnickxw said:
I have an interesting proposal. Now the idea would be that we would need to all agree to compromise.
Many survivor mains myself included want to address camping. Many killer mains want to address keys.
Here's my proposal, first we agree on a solution to both issues.
Then we constantly post about it. (Not spamong the forums but a thread that's constantly being bumped and maybe including a link to it in all other posts)
Thirdnand most important though is we have to agree to accept both solutions. If one of us starts arguing against one solution then someone else will argue against the other and it will devolve into what it already is instead of a united front the devs may actually listen too.
Here's my proposed fix for both issues but it will need to be tweaked I'm sure.
1 camping. The hook timer does not progress if the killer remains withing x feet of the hook unless the killer is in a chase.
2. Keys rather than lower spawn rates in chests (because this wouldn't Address bringing them in with you) I see other posts about treating opening the hatch the same as cleaning a totem with the time required being effected by perks as cleansing possibly as opening the gate.
Thoughts, both on the overall idea and on the two solutions? Remember we have to be prepared to compromise guys
#1 was tried, albeit with slowdown.
Survivors stood 30 meters away, preventing chases, but keeping the Killer at the hook.
The Killer either had to keep camping forever, or give up the hooked Survivor.
So no; punishments don't work.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155576#Comment_2155576
There is no reason to facecamp (unless it's after the gens are done). Smart survivors will just do gens while the killer camps. All this does is just makes the game miserable for the person getting camped. It absolutely needs addressed.
There are many reasons to facecamp:
- It removes someone from generators, thereby reducing gen speeds by 25%.
- It also removes the altruistic player who's now crouching nearby, thereby reducing gen speeds by 50%.
- It brings our targets to us, instead of making us look for them, thereby reducing the time between hook #1 and hook #2.
So no, it does not need to be addressed. Every cry for 'punish camping' is actually saying 'Conform to our demands & make the game easier for us'.
The 👏 Killer's 👏 Goal 👏 Is 👏 To 👏 Remove 👏 You 👏 From 👏 The 👏 Game! 👏
You don't get to decide how or when the Killer does this. And that's all it is; Survivors wanting to decide when it's okay, and/or HOW it's okay, to beat them.
It would be like logging into an FPS and saying 'I don't think it's fair that the enemy team can shoot at me. I keep being the first one shot & that removes me from the game before I can play'. Their goal is to remove you from the game. You accept that you might be removed from the game when you log in, because that is the opponents win state.
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@Pulsar said:
At this point, it wouldn't affect my games at all since ALL OF MY ######### GRABS GET CANCELED.
I had that happen 2 days ago. I actually started the grab animation, touched their shoulder, and then it snapped out of the animation while they ran away.
I was more than somewhat angry that I had gotten cheated out of a grab. 😣
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155431#Comment_2155431
Genrushing doesn't stop the killer from playing the game (he can still chase and down survivors), facecamping stops the survivor from being able to play. I'm hoping it gets addressed, but I doubt it will.
The Killer's goal is to remove players from the game. He does not tickle them, or pat them on the head, give them candy, and tell them 'Go do those gens, champ!'.
His goal is to delete Survivors. His goal is to stop Survivors from playing the match. HE. KILLS. So why do people keep wanting to force him to not do that, or only do that in pre-approved ways? Or only if they decide 'I've played enough. NOW the Killer can hook me'?
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If you're silly enough to do an unsafe unhook, you deserved to be grabbed.
Asking for anything otherwise is asking for free unhooks.
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@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155229#Comment_2155229
Okay but what about making hook timer go slow af if u camp hooked survivor wouldn't that solve the problem pretty much instead making it bannable
No. This was tried, twice. Survivors would force the Killer to wither camp (giving 1 Survivor the leisure to do gens), or have to walk away & allow a free unhook.
Any sort of 'punishment' for the Killer being near the hook would be abused by Survivors. Because they already were.
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And people continue to claim Killers doing their objective (Killing) is 'toxic' because they do not approve of how they did their objective (which is, again, killing).
Can Killers ask for bans for genrushing? It's the same thing; one side doing their objective in what they consider the most optimal way possible. Oh, what's that? It's only toxic if Killers are playing a certain way? I thought so.
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They, personally, survived so they, personally, won. Just like I still win if I get even 1 kill. I just win more if I get more kills. And the Survivors win more the more people escape. As it means they played altruistically.
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@alaenyia said:
I think this is a solid, equitable idea.
Thank you :)
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@miketheratguy said:
This game, like many games, are a microcosm of society. We live in a profoundly entitled, instant gratification age.
Trust me, I used to moderate the WWE game forums at THQ. The players there were just as entitled as anyone you see here. It's not unique to DBD.
Oh god, now I'm imagining DBDers in WWE games.
'Nerf The Rock!'
'Rick Flair is a crutch wrestler!'
'Nerf cage matches!'
Eeeww...
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@deckyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154415#Comment_2154415
they're not balanced by being consumed, the game you bring these things to is going to be absolutely stomped. these things aren't okay just because they're a one-game-per-use kind of thing. if anything i would love to play around with different addons without having to actually spend them, and we can bring all the standout awful stuff into line under the assumption it will actually see regular use instead of just being "i want to win this match thank you".
They ARE okay because they're one-time-per-use. That's the point of the rares being, well, rares; some are so powerful that you would not want to see them every match.
Some are MUST-HAVEs that would show up in 100% of matches of that Killer/Item. The only thing preventing that is rarity.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/246455/the-blatant-key-abuse-needs-to-stop
Why should we stop abusing keys when killers refuse to stop abusing tunneling, camping, and NOED. If one side gets to abuse stuff the other side should too
Ever notice, when people talk about key nerfs, some Survivors come screaming in to say 'Well, Killers EXIST on the same map as us, so we should get to abuse keys!'
@fr0sty1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152860#Comment_2152860
- it is abuse when camping and tunneling are the only strategies used by killers along with the fact that every killer runs NOED
- killers are not nearly as weak as everyone thinks they are it is just swfs that make killer seem weak
- DS, borrowed time, and god loops don’t allow the survivor to escape when they don’t deserve unlike NOED which will give bad killers free kills when they didn’t earn it. Keys do give survivors unearned escapes but if NOED exists in its current form the keys should stay the same too since they are the survivor counterpart of NOED
- killers aren’t meant to win every game either
- NOED gives free undeserved kills to bad killers so keys should do the same for survivors. As I said you don’t give one side something unfair and leave the other side helpless
Ah yes, the buzzwords 'bad Killers' and 'undeserved kills'. What about the Survivor's 'Second Chance (Four Times Each) Meta?' Oh right; it's fine for Survivors to abuse MULTIPLE second-chance perks, which each can be abused by four different people in a single match, plus have keys, and maps, and a free out, but 'tunneling', 'camping' and 'NoED' are 'unfair' and 'crutch'.
Double-standard harder. Rofl.
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That would be so abused. Just trap someone and chase them, stop to check a gen, then chase them again. You could basically prevent them from ever removing the trap while still keeping up decent gen pressure, since it takes a long skillcheck (and finding the RIGHT box) to remove it.
No way; OP.
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This is a terrible idea. It's basically like BNP 2: The Return Of Brand New Part (In 3-D!)