PiiFree
PiiFree
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@The_Crusader said:
If the killer really wants them to have the hatch what does it matter?They get stunned plus they lose one point in Malicious if they wiggle free. That's not the case if the Killer just drops them on the hatch.
It's not much, but it's annoying if you consider the fact that they're trying to be nice and in exchange they get punished for it.
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@Eveline said:
But it takes forever sometimes...It's still way faster than the average time required for a hatch standoff.
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I do it to prevent hatch standoffs. It's the only way to avoid it without giving out free escapes.
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@The_Crusader said:
ImoLooping isn't toxic, it just isn't very fun. However it is part of the survviors objective to survive so they will do whatever it takes.
Tunneling/camping the area isn't toxic, it just isn't very fun. However it is part of the killers objective to kill so they will do whatever it takes.
Toxic is things that serve no purpose other than to antagonize the other side e.g. tbagging or hitting on the hook. Or survivors forcing the killer to chase them around when they could just leave, or killers slugging the last guy and letting them bleed out rather than hooking, making the other side wait for no good reason basically.
What a surprise, for once we share the same opinion ^^
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Struggle -> Wiggle but yes, if all hope is gone just give up, maybe the Killer has mercy.
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@twistedmonkey said:
You know the saddest part?So many players have started out nice and then over time the toxicty made them start to take it out on the players in the next game and it keeps breeding from there, I wish i could be more positive about it but after 2 years of playing it has gotten worse not better.
I personally still play nice regardless as I refused to lower myself to that point.
I broke after a few hundred hours already
I'm not playing specially scummy or anything, never play Nurse either but my goal is always to get a 4k or to escape and I'll do whatever it takes to get that. A typical sweaty tryhard.I'll never initiate "fun matches". If people play funny, I'm absolutely going to join to have a good time but I'm not the one that's going start it.
Bring me positivity and I'll return it, but it's not coming out of nowhere ^^
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@Raccoon said:
I guess the resolution and/or discussion of this issue has been abandoned by the developers.Color me "surprised."
Pretty sure they are at least aware of it being an actual issue.
If they're able to find a solution quickly is another story...
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Yea, the deranking is a serious issue but the fact that even those promoted "Fog Whisperer" can do it happily in front of their crowd kinda proves that it's not a big deal for the devs, at least to me.
It's difficult to balance the game around high skill and low skill at the same time. We all wish for a balanced playground in all skill brackets but to achieve this, they'd have to finally create a meaningful ranking system and matchmaking. As long as people with 1000+ hours can safely and more or less effortless play in low rank, no matter how much they balance the game it will always stay unbalanced when high rank players meet low rank players.
So, first steps:
- Meaningful Ranking System (also remove rank reset)
- Proper Matchmaking System (especially within SWFs)
- Punish deranking
Then try to balance the game for all skill brackets. Give low rank players more training wheels if that helps. Nothing gamebreaking, just to help them get used to the mechanics and stuff. Point out what they should do, for example if NOED activates, to prevent the same thing from happening again.
Then balance the game around high skill players. That's just my opinon but I believe that's the only way to truly balance the game so that skill becomes the deciding factor when it comes to winning matches.
As long as they didn't take care of those first steps, it seems pointless to try and balance the game. In most cases, the skill differences in each match are way too massive to provide an even playground and balance won't fix that, it will just screw it even more.
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@Poweas said:
Yup, you're correct. I was wrong. But I still can't consider looping scummy. Let's agree to disagree. I'm quite narrowminded.Sure, in the end what we consider scummy is very subjective.
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I mean... Sure, why not?
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@Eveline said:
I'm sad now.We all are, that's why we're here
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@Poweas said:
@PiiFree said:
@Poweas said:
I'm not taking you seriously. You think looping is a scummy playstyle. Even though you have bloodlust and plenty of perks/killer powers to counter it.Then why do you start a conversation with me?
I can twist that argument:
People think tunneling and slugging is scummy even though you have pallets, windows and plenty of perks to counter it.
I agree. We're Billy mains anyways. We're a minority in these forums. We gotta stick together. But stop saying that looping is scummy. It's obviously an intended mechanic.
I'm not saying it's not intended or Survivors are not allowed to loop, but it's not always fun to deal with that's why I consider it scummy. DS, NOED, slugging, camping, tunneling, gen rushing, abusing the semi infinites,... can all be considered scummy imo.
If you don't consider looping scummy then I suppose you also don't consider it scummy to tunnel?
For me, scummy is that part between "normal" stuff and the "toxic" stuff. Stuff that's not exactly fun to deal with but in the end we all have to agree that they're just part of the game and people use them to win.
Teabagging, hitting on hook, nodding, flashlight triggering, insulting in chat / profile ect. have no gameplay purposes and that's why I consider them toxic. They're only used to provoke and taunt.
In the end we all want DbD to become a better game but it's hard to find balance / solutions when everyones experience is to different to the others. That's why discuss, after all :P
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@Eveline said:
If you yourself didn't do anything wrong why ask for forgivness? Playing survivor doesn't make me guilty. Toxic people will always be toxic I think, so they never apologize for misbehaviour.Which is exactly why the toxicity is never going to stop.
Toxic people will always be toxic and they'll continuously create more toxicity.
It's like a traumatized kid, it requires love and trust to get back to the right path. You can't just expect it to happen automatically. You have to lead them to the right path.
So deep atm lul
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@The_Crusader said:
Again, never said survivors weren't toxic. This is well known.However killers who previously - from my experiences - had the moral high ground, now seem to be in a race to the bottom with survivors.
I've had it, my friends have had it, seems Eveline has had it too.
Not sure if it was you who said it but I agree with the comment that this is probsbly from years of built-up toxicity in the game in general .It gets to everyone. To quote Ghandi "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
I guess you are right, but in a perfectly fine world the people would ask for forgiveness while admitting their misbehaviour from the past before expecting people to just forget about it
in other words, it's not a realistic thing to happen in DbD. -
@Poweas said:
I'm not taking you seriously. You think looping is a scummy playstyle. Even though you have bloodlust and plenty of perks/killer powers to counter it.Then why do you start a conversation with me?
I can twist that argument:
People think tunneling and slugging is scummy even though you have pallets, windows and plenty of perks to counter it.
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@Eveline said:
Survivors who flashlight save are trying to win. Ds users also.Absolutely. It's not fun to deal with, but it's not toxic. Not in my opinion.
Fun is relative, not everyone considers the same things fun. That's why it's very difficult to make the match fun for all players in a match.
I have fun when I have an intense match that requires a lot of concentration and dedication. Others consider it fun to farm bloodpoints, something I find utterly boring and a waste of time
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@Eveline said:
Lol your opinion isn't the same as everyones. Just because you say something doesn't mean everyone agrees. Maybe I should keep notes or make videos. First game today already toxic nodding spirit and I bet 7/10 of games will be similar.So should I say that killers are more toxic because yesterday when I played killer I didn't encountered any toxic survivor? Nah and I know what generalisation means, thinking like you.
Never said that. Your PS4 experience is certainly different to our PC experience. I'm simply using logic and basic human mindsets to make conclusions that happens to represent reality, based on my experience.
In case you're interested, I posted my profile in my forum account so feel free to head over and have a look at all the toxicity I go through on a daily base. It can give you some insights on PC experience as Killer.
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@Eveline said:
Piifree take notes. Which side is more toxic lol.Your definition of "toxicity" seems to be a bit off aswell.
People trying to win has nothing to do with them being toxic.
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@Eveline said:
I'm playing on ps4. I understand what you said but I disagree because you are making a generalisation.How is that a generalisation? It's a fact everyone but you will agree to.
Survivors tend to be more toxic than Killers. It's logical because we are humans. You give them the tools to be toxic and you give them a mob mentality and they tend to become way more toxic than when they were alone.
You can keep denying that, it's fine. But please go and check the definition of generalisation again. I'm not saying ALL Survivors are toxic, I'm saying they are naturally more toxic because of the two reasons I already told you several times now.
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@The_Crusader said:
As for only me and Eveline complaining, did you miss the event where pretty much everyone was complaining about killers disconnecting when they lost so survivors couldn't leave with the lanterns? Even Paulie Esther made a video on it.Wow, that's a video showing 3 Killers that disconnect. That certainly must mean every Killer is toxic now!
Do I have to show you my steam profile now with around 600 insulting comments exclusively coming from Survivors while I get insulted as both Survivor and Killer? And not a SINGLE Killer comment there?
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@Eveline said:
But it happens to me and others and no we are not toxic.You are clearly biased ignoring everyones experiences to further your own agenda that killers are the victims. Lots of people here are prone to generalisation like you and it's based on emotions. It is similar to racism and nationalism.
...you're totally out of your mind now and you clearly didn't understand anything I said at all, quite similar to OP. I already told you that both sides can be (and ARE) toxic. My point was that Survivors tend to be (and ARE) more toxic than Killers because it's so much easier to be toxic as that role.
It's quite the opposite, you generalise based on your own experience here. Care to show me your steam profile, I'm curious how much experience you have as Killer?
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@The_Crusader said:
I don't take screenshots of random endgame salt lol why would I?Its like how one sife often only gives a GG if they win.
You consider it toxic when the loser side doesn't give a GG?
@The_Crusader said:
Killers being able to camp and then get a second survivor with noed is an incredibly lame way to play and sucks all fun out of the game.How does that make it toxic? It's a scummy playstyle, just like looping or abusing building semi-infinites but it's not toxic.
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@Eveline said:
Facecamping while noding, hitting a hooked survivor is doing an objective?Mhm.
You never mentioned nodding and hitting the hooked Survivor. I honestly can't remember the last time that has happened to me or anyone else, unless they asked for it by teabagging ect.
BTW: I only see two users here continuously complaining about the raise of the toxic Killers; You and OP.
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@Eveline said:
I was replying to Delfador. Anyway I disagree because evidently lots of people complain about toxic killers too. And isn't it ironic that someone playing a killer in a game would be nicer than a survivor? Lots of killers enjoy being in a power and that's one of the reasons they facecamp and play with their prey like sociopaths when they go from hatch to the hook.Implying that camping (or tunneling) is toxic? Camping is a Killer doing their objective: Getting kills (if we use the logic of Survivors that excuse gen rush and looping with "Survivors doing their objective").
In that case I consider looping and gen rushing toxic aswell and the result is: 90% of the Survivors are toxic, if that's what you want it to be like.
Camping is not compareable with teabagging, flashlight triggering or endgame chat insults. A camper is just a Killer that doesn't give a damn about Survivors fun. It's no different to the majority of the Survivors, they don't give a damn about the Killers fun.
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@The_Crusader said:
I'm not gonna disagree that survivors are more toxic in general.As for killers though, yeah if they lose badly they leave, but if they 4k they'll always stay around for the gloating and the "EZ". If they camped and noed to get 3 kills you can sure as hell bet they'll try to gloat and make fun of survivors too despite playing in a really ######### way.
Basically they only leave if they have nothing to say, otherwise they love to run their mouths and talk trash.
Really? I honestly haven't see anything like that in literally months. Can you provide some evidence for that? Can you show screenshots of latest matches where this has happened to you?
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@Eveline said:
Isn't that tied to the fact that killer is alone so he's less willing to chat after? Toxic survivors are more toxic in a group.That's exactly what I said in my previous post. It's one of the reasons why Survivors tend to be more toxic than Killers.
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@Eveline said:
I dunno, I see many toxic killers in my games. And if they had the means they would be even more toxic. Someone playing a killer doesn't mean that person is automatically nicer.It means that your statement:
@Eveline said:
Humans are humans. One side can't be more or less toxic than other. It's the same.Is nonsese. Especially BECAUSE we're humans, one side can very easily be more toxic than the other.
People prefer to play a role based on their intention. If they want to be toxic, they are more likely to pick the role that allows them to be toxic more easily: Survivors. That doesn't mean all Survivors are toxic or no Killers are toxic, it just means that because it's a lot easier to be toxic as Survivor, toxic people prefer that role.
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@Eveline said:
How? Why would killers be less toxic? Problem is killer mains think survivors are more toxic because they mostly play killer. Survivor mains think killers are more toxic because they mostly play survivor.Victim card is just an excuse for being toxic.
I consider myself Survivor main, I spend 70% of my playtime as solo Survivor since several months now but I started to play this game in 2016 as Killer main. But that's not of relevance, certainly both sides can be toxic.
The thing is, as Killer you have to work for it, you have to achieve something in order to be able to be toxic. You need to win. As Survivor, you can just jump into the match and be toxic, nothing is required. You don't need to be good at the game. You just spam ctrl or m2, that's it.
Considering how easily accessible toxicity is for Survivors, it's also the prefered role to play for people that just want to be toxic. It's simply true. Look at OchiDo, No0b3, Jen and all the others. Add SWF mob mentality to that and you have another boost to toxicity and bully-potential.
How many Killer streamers do you know that make it their goal to annoy and upset Survivors? And how many communities exist that celebrate those streamers / playstyles?
I don't know any.
It's a logical conclusion if you analyze the basic game concept. Toxicity is easily accessible as Survivor. You can bring your friends when playing Survivor. That's the two main factors that lead to toxicity. You get the tools to be toxic (teabagging, flashlight triggering) and you get the mentality (SWF).
Result: Toxic players choose to play Survivor over Killer.
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@Eveline said:
Humans are humans. One side can't be more or less toxic than other. It's the same.Total nonsense.
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@The_Crusader said:
Ruin does slow the game down, otherwise you wouldn't have seemingly 99% of killers at red ranks running it. Even if they msnage to hit every single great skillcheck which isn't going to happen across 4 survivors they still don't get the bonus from it.Why so defensive here? Of course DS and Adrenaline are just as big a problem as NOED. It's not one side vs the other here. It's 3 busted perks that ruin the fun for the other side.
I mean I guess by your logic Adrenaline is fine because survivors had 1 perk slot unused all game? Hell you coulf argue DS is fine because 3 of the survivors might never have a chance to use it.
5 totems for one perk. Sounds balanced. An entire extra gen bssically.
Just admit you love your crutch. You seem to be implying solo survivors need to play absolutely perfectly in order to be allowed to win but a killer is allowed to play poorly then cheese the ending with one perk.
For the record: I never use NOED. NEVER. (just fyi before you continue to make up blatant lies).
Adrenaline would be fine if it just triggered when the last gen popped. What makes it broken is that it pops upon unhooking. That's the only problem I have with Adrenaline. That would be an equivalent to NOED; it heals you for one state and gives you a speed boost the moment the last gen pops. NOED removes an additional health state and gives the Killer a speed boost the moment the last gen pops.
It's not 5 totems for one perk, it's 5 totems for 2 perks: Ruin and NOED. That's the unbalanced scenario you just made up, but according to your logic that actually makes it an unbalanced thing for the Killers.
If 5 totems for 1 perk is balanced then 5 totems for 2 perks is certainly not.
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@The_Crusader said:
Nobody ever ssid the survivors weren't toxic. Of course they are.It's just that before it seemed like killers had the moral high ground however after recent experiences I'm not so sure.
I don't get why both sides can't just do their objective snd get it over with without needing to taunt the other side.
Killers were wondering that since 2016. Now that the game is somewhat balanced, they can finally strike back and return all the BS they had to go through and now the Survivors cry about toxic Killers?
You can't just bully someone over the course of months / years and when the tables slowly turn expect them to forget about it and play the morality card.
Yes, an extreme example but that's how it works. The damage is long done, what you see are just the results: A overall toxic community.
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@The_Crusader said:
You act like there wasn't an entire game before that part?The killer had 5 gens in which to eliminate at least 1-2 survivors. If the survivors play well and all 4 make it to the end then why should the killer whonplayed inferior get a "catch-up" perk?
The game is balanced around a 2k so the killer should if both sides play equal be having 2 escape. If survivors escape what's wrong with that? They are allowed to win too.
The extra totems and time spent running around for them more than makes a new entire generator. Against a good Billy with Ruin on top? Sometimes it's just overkill.
You mention "good Billy", implying that the Survivors are also good? Then how are they affected by Ruin? Good Survivors are not affected by Ruin. If it affects them, they are bad Survivors and therefore deserve to lose against a good Billy. That's how balance works.
According to your logic, Adrenaline shouldn't exist either? I'm not even going to mention DS here.
So yes, the Killer played the entire match before, but they sacrificed one out of four perks to get that advantage in the end of the match. They gave you an entire match of 3 perks only and you still failed to take care of the perk before it activated.
It's pure incompetence. Lack of skill / awareness and bad decision making, that's it. YOU decide when NOED activates (if at all) the Killer just hopes that you time it poorly so they can make use of it. The moment you pop the last gen is the moment you gotta be ready to deal with NOED. If not, don't pop the last gen.
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Congrats @SlickSal for making a suggestion that everyone seems to agree with.
Simple but effective.
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Would that mean that Survivors can indirectly repair generators (collect parts) while looping?
Noice!
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@The_Crusader said:
End of the game...- No pallets left
- Killers balanced for 110ms become 114ms
- Killers balanced for 115ms become 119ms
- Unlimited instadowns on M1
Yeah it's not that strong. At that point any noob can take a 110ms killer and do pretty well.
"Unlimited instadown on M1"
You realize that at that point the Killer has maybe 30 seconds until gates are open and Survivors escaped or are already on the totem. If the Killer manages to down more than one Survivor in that period of time, it's entirely the fault of Survivors. One might get unlucky and get caught while opening the Gate, that's the time frame you have available to open the other gate or cleanse the totem. If the Killers gets more than that, you failed.
E: And not to forget, that is the worst case scenario where you failed to cleanse all totems (5x14s). You can totally prevent that from happening and effectively take away one of the Killers perk (or nullify a whole build) by just getting the dull totems first.
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@MineAntoiya said:
EDIT: This was a serious comment, but I saw the "Killers are OP" part and knew it was a troll lolYour original post was not wrong though...
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One can only dream about such stuff. I'd love something like that I have zero hope for that.
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I love the mindgames against Legion. You loop an undropped pallet, they enter Frenzy mode and you slam the pallet in their face. They slowly become smarter and wait a second before mindlessly running into the pallet, so you wait with dropping the pallet aswell and then drop it when they're about to move forward again.
When you accidentally drop the pallet without stunning them, you act as if you're about to continue the loop but as soon as the legion vaults the pallet, you turn around and vault back. They lose LoS during vaulting and they get that momentum that usually let's them take a few steps forward right after vaulting, that's enough for you to just vault back before getting hit but the timing has to be on point.
Those are some simple mindgames that allow you to prolong the chase for quite a while. Keep in mind that they can't see scratchmarks when in Frenzy and make use of that.
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What's the point of this thread?
Looks like you're just fishing for attention with your latest threads: Useless and biased.No, I did not notice a huge increase in Killer toxicity but I noticed a lot more DS, flashlight triggering and teabagging Survivors recently.
What now?
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@Nickenzie said:
I'm starting to think NOED is fine, but I really don't like how the perk destroys solo survivors while SWF can take it down in a breeze. This needs to be changed, make NOED equally as strong for both groups of survivors.How does this perk destroy solo Survivors? I don't get this conclusion. Are you talking about 4 solos in the same trial and no one but you bothers cleansing the dull totems?
How is that screwing over the solos? 3 are doing gens while you are doing totems. That's the best thing that can happen, as you perfectly well know where you've already been and therefore won't waste time looking for the totem in places someone already had looked before.
If you end up with 3 solos that also cleanse dull totems, it will take a minute or two and ALL totems will be gone while they do gens simmultaneously.
If you end up with a SWF, they will break those totems down in a breeze.
So really, in the end the only thing that might screw you are the 4x solo teams. How often do you get matched with 3 other solo players? One year ago, 70% of the queues included SWFs. It's probably a lot more by now.
In the end it's all about the incompetence of the other Survivors. You HAVE a perfectly fine and simple solution to NOED; cleanse the dull totems. If you or your teammates fail to do this, you'll get punished. Simple. NOED is a punishment for the lazy or the unaware Survivors, that's all.
Good players will expect it and avoid getting hit after gates are powered or they take care of it before it pops. Doesn't matter if it's in a SWF or with Solos.
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The Killer is playing with 3 perks thoughout the whole match until all gens are powered and you fail to cleanse 5 totems in the meantime? Mhm.
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I just uploaded the video:
The fun starts around 4:50! (...and I know that I messed up the start of the match)
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@Vietfox said:
We need to tell the difference between improvement and "not so smart suggestions".
Would you listen to a survivor who claims that noed is op? Because i wouldn't.If they can reasonably argue why they think NOED is OP, yes.
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I didn't read but I can only assume:
TL;DR:
STOP DISCONNECTING, YOU ARE RUINING THE FUN FOR EVERYONE ELSE!
And I 100% agree with this, I'm getting sick & tired of it.
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@PinkEricka said:
Why is this post being taken so seriously? Honestly some of y’all are so triggered that it makes yall look SWEATY.please get a life instead of putting so much effort into paragraphs about how SWF is “overpowered” because you’re struggling to adjust to game mechanics.
People try to improve their favourite game and you call it sweaty?
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Good question. I can't find a reasonable answer to it.
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@BlackReaper said:
DS must be overhaul, but you guys are blind? the real problem here is not DS, is how fast the game end, DS is not a problem if you have time to chase them again, "ok he DS and now i have to caught him again", yeah thats kinda sucks but it's ok unless you get the 5 gens done already, in the process. At least is what i think about this.One good thing in DbD is that the matches are relatively short, we don't need to prolong them unnecessarily. You can have quick matches (decided by the gen repair times) but as a consequence you need to give Killers the ability to end chases quickly aswell.
By prolonging the match, you just increase the time the other Survivors spend repairing gens. It's not time that's thrilling and exciting, it's time they spend holding M1 while pressing space from time to time.
It needs a good balance between intensity and thrill but also not too hectic and stressful. Unfortunately, it's always really stressful for Killers and if you add DS, it's getting way worse.
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@RandomPlayer said:
What does that have to do with anything?
Is there a difference btw 1 post and 1.000.000 posts?
I don't post on the internet cause of too many dumb people and based on your reply and pic you're one of those wannabe smart teabaggers that gets killed first in my games and rage quits because he thinks he's too good to be caught by the killer.That's exactly the type of player I am, you're really good at judging strangers based on a single post. Are you a magician by chance?
Anyway, just like you judged me right now, I did aswell;
1 post, claims to be rank 1 Killer, claims to consistently 4k but doesn't even know that the perk is called "Self Care" and not "Self HEAL".
My reaction: see the picture above.
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@Eveline said:
Don't get caught or play the killer. God forbid devs do something about those evil survivors.You learn quickly xD
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Clown for sure, followed by Huntress.