PigMainClaudette
PigMainClaudette
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@Kbot22 said:
@PigMainClaudette how do you say he takes no skill? Curving takes a lot of practice and dedication to pull off, if you are getting chainsawed across the map then you're the problem, not the killer. It is unlikely for that to happen at high ranks and even if you do a nice curve then can still dodge it. This is why hillbilly is the games most balanced killer because you can see what he is doing and react accordingly. Nurse is to fast to really react and spirit is just a guessing game. I do agree that some of his add-ons need to be look at but nothing with base kit
I'm not saying that ALL Hillbilly takes no skill, I'm saying that revving a chainsaw at M1 range as your only forms of attack takes no skill. Walking around a rock with a chainsaw above your head is not skilled. Waiting until you are touching me with your body before launching a chainsaw takes no skill. I am not looking at high skill play, I'm looking at someone picking up a killer to learn them. May as well call it the first 5-10 hours.
At a base level, at the skill floor, Hillbilly takes next to no skill. Especially compared to Nurse and Spirit. I would also argue that Freddy and Doc take more management of powers and skill than Hillbilly.
And I would argue that HUNTRESS is the most balanced killer in the game. Not Hillbilly. If we look solely at their base kits, then Huntress is more balanced than Hillbilly.
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@yeet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1082451#Comment_1082451
"if he MUST BE then every other killer besides Freddy, Doctor, Nurse and Spirit all need to be looked at majorly then"
they absolutely do all need buffs, way to miss the forest for the trees
How so? This is literally the problem that I've run into this entire thread, and I would like to say that it is everyone else missing the forest for the trees here.
If you are going to say something like that, you need to have some sort of rebuttal or evidence to back up your claim, or not have me instantly dismiss you. That's how a DISCUSSION works.
If Hillbilly is to be the centre of "good balance" then every other killer needs changes. Simple as that. That is part of the Hillbilly problem.
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@EvilJoshy said:
I disagree with most of this post but the sad truth is we all know he's going to get nerfed. He's simply next on the chopping block. It's very clear the devs prefer survivors over all else. Killer is given bits of food just to prevent them from starving so we don't "play something else"
Thing is that I don't want another strong killer nerf. Insta-saw is a differing matter.
What I want to see is that more killers are reworked to the level of Freddy and Doc, or released as powerful as Nurse or Spirit. That way Hillbilly will be phased out of the meta as a middle of the road killer, with a good ability.
Funny thing is that I praise Oni as being simply put, a balanced Hillbilly. You have his mobility and instant-down, but you have to work for it.
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@DocFabron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1082563#Comment_1082563
Alot of Ghostface players on console must not ne playing optimally then. They think turning off the red stain means "guess they'll never see me coming now!"
You would think, but Spine Chill is kind of a dead giveaway. So is Xbox Party Chat. These idiots play that way, and get gen-rushed because of it.
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Doc is A Tier, not B and Hag should be lower. Don't give camping a credible name.
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I hate one use perks. I hate that Adrenaline relies on me reaching endgame. I don't have BT as a teachable and I generally wait for a same moment anyway.
Not all of my survivors have DH. Not all of them need it.
DS is only as an insurance cost for me, as a true anti-tunnelling perk, but I get tunnelled after hitting it anyway.
My two builds are for stealth or running.
Stealth: Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Bond, Self Care/Botany Knowledge+medkit
Runner: Decisive Strike, Balanced Landing/Dead Hard, Botany Knowledge, Self Care
I can hide, I can run, I can heal.
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Don't.
Serious time though, don't trap hooks. You'll just be a glorified camper then. Set them up in loops or proximity to generators or popular survivor areas is what I'd do.
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@DefaultText said:
ive had yesterday 2 billies and got the same map on a row, fractured cowshed,same insta saw add ons
First billy had infectios fright and knock out (and deerstalker) and slugged everyone for a 4k
Second billy hooked one person then downed my other 2 team mates, one killed on hook and 2 slugged and got chased until their bleed out timer was 1/4th
said ######### it and played dark souls 3 instead.
tldr Billy slug machine, plz make knock out basic attack
Now imagine similar games for 2 months. Every day. Not necessarily Insta-saw, but slugs and an over-reliance on the chainsaw.
That was me.
I picked him up to see the hype. I had an immediate issue. I made this post.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1082451#Comment_1082451
I like how you say you didnt call for a nerf, not saying actually yelinng and the next sentence starts with the only nerf i want... lmao.
Insta-saw is a different story to wanting a full-on character nerfing. Insta-saw is a broken, abusive combination of add-ons that literally ruins games.
If you read the initial post, and used empathy, then you'd understand that I'm not calling for a nerf for a strong killer, I'm asking that weaker killers be brought up to a level so that Hillbilly is literally the middle of the road killer, or that someone with so much utility in one button have something more to show for it. If that means nerfing him, then that's the dev's idea.
Insta-saw needs to go in the sense that matchmaking needs to be fixed. It's simply for the health of the game.
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Ghostface himself is fine.
It's the people who play him that are the problem*.
*not all Ghostface players, just those who feel it's necessary to endlessly camp/tunnel with their broken stealth ability. Broken as in detection, btdubbz.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1082395#Comment_1082395
How bad do you have to be to get sniped by a billy? Pls developers, change billy so i can play with music on and being blind is fine too.
I have done it. And we must have a differing definition of "sniping" with Billy.
When I mean "snipe" I mean running with his chainsaw, and hitting a survivor trying to get into cover after exposing themselves that you've just run near. Curving into them in almost a split second.
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Pig.
I love SAW with a passion, and she's super fun to play. I don't play killer at a very high rank, because I don't want to. I prefer low green as killer, or at least with Pig against confused randoms.
There's something as well about the "unseen predator" style of gameplay that's just FUN. And as I have said before, I love to get a snowball effect with people dropping almost all at once.
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@DocFabron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1082451#Comment_1082451
Yeah I didn't read the post. I seen Hillbilly problem and didn't feel like reading more. :/ My bad. Insta saw DOES need to go.
I have no problem with his kit, just his base strength and ease of use. Especially compared to rest of the high tier cast.
That is The HILLBILLY Problem.
I wouldn't mind also making this a series about every single killer, but with how controversial this one is, I think that maybe it isn't such a good idea.
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@Star99er said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1015800#Comment_1015800
I think it’s funny that he says this because for me Billy is the hardest killer in the game to master. I have a much easier time with Nurse & this is coming from someone who plays on console.
That's if you rely on the saw. I only use it as a mobility tool, or baiting pallets. I'll also use it if they're out in the open and have distance.
He has that hammer for a reason. He can still be a fair and balanced M1 killer, but to be honest, he still has way too much going for him.
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@DocFabron said:
No. 100 times no. PLEASE no. Please STOP trying to get Billy nerfed into the floor. Can killers have at least just ONE killer you can't "M1+W to win" against?
You didn't read my post at all.
I NEVER CALLED FOR A NERF. The only nerf I want is total removal of insta-saw.
All I have ever said is that Hillbilly is too easy to pick up for the reward you get, he shouldn't be the focus of balance and if he MUST BE then every other killer besides Freddy, Doctor, Nurse and Spirit all need to be looked at majorly then, since he has everything except stealth and both Spirit and Nurse are the only contenders to his power, but take many more hours to compete at the same level.
I have highlighted how this is as well compared to other killers.
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Cargo shorts. Just below the knee.
Live in them. Love them. Would suit him 100%
IRL similar build to David, just more beer gut than rugby abs.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022631#Comment_1022631
However, just because you don't agree with OP's opinion doesn't mean you can be disrespectful to OP by giving unconstructive feedback such as "Thank you. Now I don't have to read the post." — it's unnecessary and doesn't further the discussion at all.
I encourage you, as well as everyone else who's on your train, to participate and debate why OP's opinion is flawed. Perhaps something good can come from this discussion, if you let it. 😁
This is a forum, after all, you're supposed to debate topics.
I've tried in about a quarter of the posts on here to get people to debate me, rather than just "GiT gUd, HiGh SkIlL pLaY! fLiCkS! uSe WaLlS aNd VaUlTs!" I wouldn't write this if I hadn't, also I can't flick because I'm a console player who refuses M&KB or to change from the default sensitivity. And this is about Hillbilliy's skill floor vs. reward. Something that NOBODY HAS DEBATED.
I know that I have radical ideas, and that my observed opinions will differ wildly from other people. It's fine. People are entitled to their opinion.
At least you have the decency to show me a modicum of respect.
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@Mringasa said:
They can't nerf Billy because then who would fly?
10/10 Will let Billy insta-saw me any time as long as he's willing to do so while soaring through the skies.
Billy is fine where he's at. When he screws up you can punish him for it. When he's on top of things, he's deadly. Which is exactly how a Killer SHOULD be.
I'm not calling for nerfs. The only nerf I want is a full-body disembowelment of Insta-saw.
And that this one killer with all but stealth is way too easy base for what he has.
If a Billy wants to saw me and be proud about it, HE CAN EARN IT! Force me out into the open or snipe me. Don't just wait until you're in M1 range to charge.
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Clown's power is FANTASTIC. He shuts down loops, and can gather information from it.
The problem? He's literally the M1 killer. He has no movement options, no map pressure outside of a chase, standard terror radius, so he's easy to hear coming.
A lot of these problems can be fixed with perks, but some of these perks have drawbacks. Play With Your Food requires you to find ONE out of four survivors, and break chase with them up to 3 times, but you lose the perk's power after hitting people. Monitor and Abuse lessens his terror radius, but you have just used a perk slot that could be used for other perks like Pop Goes the Weasel or Thrilling Tremors.
On his release, Clown was great. What changed? Survivors learnt how to counter him. They started dropping pallets early. They played more stealthily. They learnt to avoid his gas areas.
Survivors learnt to beat him, and now he's in a bad spot.
Legion can do something about pallets, apply map pressure and force survivors to do something other than generators. Bubba can also deal with pallets and has an instant down. Wraith keeps people on their toes and moves faster while cloaked. Doctor and Freddy are both now top-tier post-rework.
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This was an issue. And a bannable offense. Thought they'd fixed it.
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@BillyAndStu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074741#Comment_1074741
Youre sorely mistaken. To sat that all toxicity starts with the killer is ludicrious. There are SO many survivors who rage and dc just for being downed normally. Not playing the way they want you to? "Douche." Missed a swing? *teabagging uncontrollably. There are a ton of survivors who go out of their way to make the match a living hell for the killer. Wether it be all green toolboxes or multiple flashlights. Simply for playing killer! I have a genuine hate for killers who get off on making the game unfun but they can only do it for one person at a time if theyre camping/tunneling. Therefore it can be countered.
There are more killers trying to ruin games than survivors.
Both sides can be painful to each other.
I said it STARTS WITH, meaning that it is generally a single killer, or a few killers, who annoy survivors that they start doing these things. And the main part of my argument is that a majority of this starts, on the killers side at least, IN THE LOWER RANKS, which then spills into higher ranking survivors taking out their frustration on mid-rank killers, find out it works really well as a normal strategy, then goes through to Red.
Killers in turn go back to being toxic to get rid of toxic survivors, get more kills and keep playing as such. Or stop playing all together, leading to our current match-making.
A self-perpetuating cycle that can mainly be attributed to one side. MAINLY. Not fully.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076218#Comment_1076218
Oh okay. So on their second game, they have fully learned how to use Billy and are god tier?
Gotcha.
I would say "good talking to you", but your conversational skills need work.
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I try for the Archives, but that's about it. Not really much point now that I have hit the mythical Red ranks.
I hate it btdubbs. Just send me back to Green. I had fun there.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076190#Comment_1076190
You keep dismissing the fact that a new billy is an absolute potato, and is only decent against new survivors.
This is why you repeatedly lose this debate with other people.
Again. Not attacking my actual point. ANYBODY is a potato in their first game. You know how many bad Billy games I've had? One. The first one I ever played. The rest? Highly dominant 4k's.
I have verses Hillbillies like PC players have Nurses, and played him for a good while myself. It is through hours of observation that I have come to my conclusion, but you obviously don't care. You just want to cheese chainsaws and prove the OP's point.
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@Polychrome_Baku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075240#Comment_1075240
I'm going to be nicer because I'm already jailed, so I'm going to put it like this. Killers use NOED because gen slowdown is ineffective and coupled with the fact that survivors don't do dull totems anymore. They also are running 3 perks until the end game, where the survivors have already completed their objective. It also can be completely removed by survivors. But I guess taking a few seconds to hold M1 on a bone is too complicated.
"YoU hAvE ZeRo rEqUiReMeNt" some people love to say. Why does every killer perk need to have some complex ass requirement? I don't see that same bullshit line of thinking with survivor perks. The only survivor perks I can think of that requires survivors to go out of their way to get a bonus are perks like Stake Out, Mettle of Man, and Autodidact. Guess how many people run those perks? Survivors want their perks to be easy to activate through normal gameplay (or exhaustion) and every decent killer perk to require 5 sacrifices to use and come with a 5 minute cooldown. Imagine if Lithe required you to to jump through a certain amount of windows before it activated, or sprint burst had a build up period before activating instead of being instant when you run.
BT enables risky unhooks and allow survivors to play super aggressively with their altruism. Stop acting like every BT activation comes from camping. Survivors routinely exploit perks like this.
DS was better prior to the change. Now it amounts to a free health state. Especially if all 4 are running it. Sprint Burst rewards poor positioning, but better people than me have already pointed that out.
I'm not asking for something super complicated, just something on the killer's end, other than "lose badly" against solos who can't get all bones.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074824#Comment_1074824
Your point: Hillbilly is OP, because anyone can pick him up and be good with him fast.
Looking at your history (as well as what I said to you), almost everyone has told you that's not the case, and why. Your response is always an elaborate version of "nuh uh". But keep on keeping on, man.
Not OP. Too low a skill floor for such a high reward, compared to other top killers. There is a difference.
But no. You keep pushing that easy to dismiss narrative of he's OP.
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I didn't see you calling for Trapper nerfs in Archives 1. What changed?
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@PfoxandtheHound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075138#Comment_1075138
How do feel about being the target of rancor then?
Wouldn't know. Nobody uses it.
That and so many if my DS games result in me NOT being the Obsession. It's more frequent I get it when not running DS, I swear!
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Red for killers, since people know what they're doing.
Brown for survivors. Smurf city, with neighboring Potatoville and Toxic Town, full of campers, tunnellers and people purposefully TRYING to ruin your day!
All ranks have their problems though. I find a LOT of tryhards in purple, and green is between veteran who left for several months and newbie tryhard.
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Claudette and Pig mainly. Obviously.
But lately I've built up Yui as a runner, rather than my steathly Claudette, aaaaaand I'm in the middle of getting her to Prestige 3, so running THAT build on Laurie instead.
Other than that, I can play Doc, Freddy, Trapper, Spirit or Billy.
Have tried Nurse but ofmg on console, increase her lunge range.
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I can play a perfect game against someone like a Hillbilly, on Yamaoka Estate, WITH AN INSTA-SAW and they ONLY USE THE SAW, dodge them the entire game but get hooked once.
They kill everyone else. They close hatch. I get the game open. They NoED me. Of course I'm going to feel cheated! Of course I'm going to accuse them of being unskilled! Of course I'm going to call NoED "Baby's first crutch perk" when people like that unfairly get me or can't perform at all, so NoED and camp for a kill!
It is bad perk design 101. There is no warning and no build-up for such a game-changing, stat-altering effect.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075088#Comment_1075088
Killers aren’t underperforming though that’s the point. I don’t think Spirit is OP, just Billy. I’m in the same camp as @PigMainClaudette where I think he’s too strong for how easy he is to use.
I admit I thought Pig was weak but @Almo said she was doing too well to be given a buff.
Now the reasons for that can be debated and that’s what we often do (I personally believe NOED is fudging the numbers to some degree on weaker killers) however the point is that whatever the reasons, killers are not underperforming at the moment hence why there isn’t a rush to buff them.
I think we have agree that toolboxes aren’t needed to be so strong in the current game and they are being looked into. Likewise I think we have all agreed that some maps are too big which limits killer/survivor interaction, Red Forest being a good example.
OH MY GOD! SOMEONE SHARES MY OPINION!
As for Pig, the stats are skewered by trap tunnellers and crouched face-campers. Not true diciples, like Almo and myself.
Toolboxes are a problem, more than maps.
NoED is also skewering killer kills as it almost guarantees an endgame kill.
Leatherface just has a dumb power as a whole. I like the AoE, but hate that it's tied to an instant down. If they DO rework him, new power. New character from the ground up. His original incarnation feels rushed.
Never played him, never will in his current form. Too many people abusing the saw to even consider it. Good perks, though.
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I wouldn't call Zanshin or Windows "crutch", but more "tutoroal" perks.
And for most of the perks here, they are either just heavily universal or good, and have some level of skill requirement to use effectively. Except one.
NoED for me is literally the definition of a crutch perk, and only really useful on maps with bad totem spawns or solo-queue. "JuSt Do BoNeS!" I hear people cry. You have ZERO REQUIREMENT I respond. Every other "crutch perk" has a level of requirement other than "lose badly" and get such a powerful reward.
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New Ruin is FINE. It's most effective mid-late game after you have bumped off a survivor.
I played a Pig game where 2 gens popped before I saw a Survivor. Only one more gen got done the rest of the game, because I forced them off generators. Ruin stalled the gens.
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New Freddy and Doc have just become complete mirrors on the tier lists.
They also actually feel much better to play as and somewhat actually scary to go against. Freddy has tricks everywhere and the Dream World is now actually problematic, and Doctor is a true PRESSURE killer! He always feels on top of you and in control.
Ruin isn't a total flop though. Yes, you don't get the instant satisfaction that you used to, but late game, when there's fewer survivors, it's terrifying to know that all your progress is gone because you're locked into a chase.
As for the Bubba rework, my utter hatred for Bubba is well documented. I'm going to give this one a pass until it comes out.
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Let's see how Overwatch 2 goes first, before we make any real suggestions about that.
I like the idea, but I've heard less than stellar things about OW2.
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I'd prefer cross-play first, especially with people I know not having the same platform as me.
I also have a mate with a Youtube channel that I'd love to do some DbD content for. And yes, I literally mean me noob-stomping my mates in customs for a bit. Then some actual fun customs for a bit.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074824#Comment_1074824
Given how much flack you're getting for it, I just wanted to say that I understand what you're trying to say about the skill floor:ceiling ratio, and in general I agree with you, not only in that it is an important issue to consider when discussing balance, but that most players don't acknowledge it as such.
I expect it.
I know I'm right because I've versed Hillbillies like PC players have Nurses, picked him up to see what all the hype is about, had one bad game as a low green vs. tryhard purples, and dominated every game since.
On console, yes, but still.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074806#Comment_1074806
And by the looks of it, you've lost every time. GG I guess.
Anywho, back to the topic at hand, toxicity is all around. Not purely killer or survivor based.
Can't lose an argument if people never go against your initial point.
GG EZ indeed.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074806#Comment_1074806
The issue: Most people WILL NEVER put 50 hours into nurse as people don't want to put up getting curb stomped for 50 hours.
So if all killers were that hard that were worth using the game would be dead much like nearly all other online game that strictly make a game that's ONLY playable by the top 100 people. Only 100 people will play.
This mentality has plagued and killed so many Arena shooter games that its almost frivolous to name individual examples as it has happened to nearly every failed game in that genera.
I'm not saying that all killers should be NURSE DIFFCULT, but harder than "hold chainsaw to win" at their core. Nobody cares about the skill floor though.
What I also said is that if the Devs consider Billy to be their focus point for balance, then there's something fundamentally wrong with their balancing.
I'm fine with Doctor and Freddy being top-tier strong, just not with Hillbilly being their equal.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074782#Comment_1074782
If the only strong killers are the ones that are too hard to play for most players (Which the nurse does count as) Then no one will play killer.
This logic is flawed in the sense that it doesn't consider the idea of introduction and how a bad first impression(If everyone who is easy to play gets stomped)it will put people off.
Being hypothetical :Imagine playing the game where the only powerful roles were as hard to play as the nurse. That game would have some die hard players but would die fast due to no one having any power unless they are willing to torture themselves to play one of the few powerful characters.
TLDR: Difficulty =/= to power for the simple reason of maintaining a player base.
@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074782#Comment_1074782
Yes, cause every new Billy player can do the Billy flick, and not be forced to M1 in loops. Sure.
And Clown is S tier. lol
Skill floor vs. Skill celing. Or another eay to put it is 50 hours of Nurse or 5 in Hillbilly.
I have had this argument withtoo many people. There is nothing new you can say.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074735#Comment_1074735
I don't think I saw that thread, but people probably called you wrong...because you were actually wrong. Hillbilly is far from overpowered. Addons maybe, but base kit no.
That is not what I was arguing. I was saying that he shouldn't be so strong for how simple he is to play and pick up, and compared him to Spirit and Nurse.
Big difference that people, just like you, ignored entirely.
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@Karl_Childers said:
Both sides are equally toxic, and each creates toxic players of the other side through their actions. It’s the cycle of this game.
Look, yes, but with the power of the game, it surely starts with killers going out of their way to ruin people's games. People make accounts specifically to get away with tunnelling and face-camping just to annoy others.
It's even more prevalent on consoles where it's free to make new accounts and the corporates won't ban anyone.
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@Zombra808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074682#Comment_1074682
Definitely more toxic in end game, but I'm talking about gameplay experience. Endgame you can just leave the lobby, when you're in the game, all you can really do is DC, but killers still get upset when survivors DC when they get mad, calling them entitled just because they actually want to have fun.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074673#Comment_1074673
The reason I said that is because look at the comments, half of it is people either claiming its bait, or that my opinion is flat out wrong.
For your second part: you are right, but people won't accept that. Same thing happened in my thread "The Hillbilly Problem" where I detailed how he was such a problematic character with his current power level, and 75% of the comments were I'm just wrong, gut gud or borderline abuse.
You actually have a point, but people are so stuck in their own personal biases to even consider the points of others.
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Flow game, forums, facebook, youtube, go to the fridge and grab another beer.
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Oni would be the most skilled warrior out of the bunch, so normally I'd go with him. However, there is the dogpile situation, in which he's done in by several of the killers.
Huntress might be a suprise victor though, since she literally lived for the hunt.
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Ghostface is currently considered the best stealth killer, but still lower than other killers. Legion is apparently one of the worst, but not horrible for ranking up. Freddy is currently the strongest killer in the game potentially.
Legion and Ghostface both have decent perks, with Discordance, Iron Maiden, I'm All Ears and Thrilling Tremors are all used to some degree. Freddy's perks are the worst out of the lot.
Legion and Freddy also come with survivors in their packs, but Ghostface is slightly cheaper because he doesn't have one.
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I've had problems with Custom Games, but I think it has more to do with internet connections, and possibly Xbox NAT Types. Best solution is get the person with the most stable internet to "host", invite everyone into the lobby and have them play as the killer first.
Will the devs do anything about it? Maybe if enough of us say that there is an issue.
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Looks like a copycat targeting police, so possibly a secret Hoffman diciple. They proved that they're still willing to add new "secret diciples" in Jigsaw with the mortician/doctor. Or it's the same guy trying to go after the cops as a continuation for what happened at the end of Jigsaw.
Either way, super hyped! SAW is one of my favourite movie franchises, and the main reason I am a Pig devotee!
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Wait. Someone still has a working VHS?