Orion
Orion
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- Orion
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@JimboMason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162982#Comment_2162982
While I see your point, removing unnecessary info allows for more interpretations, which is something that is actually beneficial in the long run
Unless you also erase people's memories, along with every record of the lore, that's not going to work.
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@Deviri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162943#Comment_2162943
So honestly the way to do this without coming off as 'pandering' is for BHVR to listen to their audience, speak to actual LGBTQ+ characters, and actually look into the representation they're bringing to the table. They clearly worked hard on All-Kill (regardless of what's thought of with the update), going so far as to talk to actual KPOP stars and people in that industry.
Researching can only take them so far. They need to actively talk to people in the community to learn. My experiences and wants as a trans man are most likely very different from other trans men's, and so while there is no middle ground it's still a good place to start.
Many of the devs are LGBT themselves, just for the record.
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@B_Random said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162869#Comment_2162869
I mean if he acts feminine-
Wait why are we talking about this?!
Who cares about this guy, if he acts feminine then thats him, bullies are just selfish pricks that hate their lives. So why does it matter?
So why does it matter?
Did you completely miss the last line of my comment or something? Read it again. If that doesn't answer your question, then be more specific about what your question is.
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@B_Random said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162694#Comment_2162694
I mean he could be, you don't know. I'm also sorry that when I think of a gay person, I usually default to the very flamboyant types, since the gay people I've met are very flamboyant. So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying.
So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that?
When there's no mention of that and you're just going off of stereotypes? Yes, absolutely. I don't remember the name, but a user here commented that he'd been bullied for being "feminine", so he was stereotyped as "gay".
Stereotyping is demonstrably harmful.
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@JimboMason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162816#Comment_2162816
I'd rather there be a reason for things to be the way they are so the community can further relate or understand to a character, scenario, etc., not something that's just thrown in for the hell of it. Also, wasn't Trapper's dad's mine where he killed his employees, and how Evan came to be who we know him in the game?
I'd rather there be a reason for things to be the way they are so the community can further relate or understand to a character, scenario, etc., not something that's just thrown in for the hell of it.
The devs aren't Chekhov, there's always going to be a ton of irrelevant details.
Also, wasn't Trapper's dad's mine where he killed his employees, and how Evan came to be who we know him in the game?
Yes, and that was thrown in for the hell of it. Could've just as easily been something else, or even nothing at all.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162740#Comment_2162740
"It's nice to have other people on the side of representation."
This.
I know I haven't really interacted with either of you directly but I'd just like to thank you and @Orion for being awesome. It's incredibly heartwarming to see both your input on this.
You have both explained your points so eloquently and expressed in words many of my own feelings that I wasn't sure how to word.
Again, thank you both for being a source of positivity on these forums because it can definitely be overwhelming on here sometimes! <3
Thank you, it's nice to be appreciated.
@B_Random said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162688#Comment_2162688
What calling me a homophobe, because I'm not. I just don't get why a killer and survivors sexuality have any importants due to:
- This is a horror game.
- This game isn't about sexuality or fan service, it's about surviving a deity's trials.
- Finally, there is really no reason this should be important.
I mean imagine there was a game about saving the world from aliens or some #########, while you're playing an alien from another race. Would its sexuality matter? Do you want to know its sexuality because you want to make fan art of ######### it?
Come on dude, I'm all for pride and #########, I mean love who you want to love. But a survivor and killers sexuality is the last thing the devs and such need to worry about.
I mean imagine there was a game about saving the world from aliens or some [BAD WORD], while you're playing an alien from another race. Would its sexuality matter? Do you want to know its sexuality because you want to make fan art of [BAD WORD] it?
Hi, have you heard of Mass Effect? You don't play an alien, but you do play a human, just like you play humans in this game (except Demogorgon).
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@JimboMason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162375#Comment_2162375
Unless there is a purpose behind a homo relationship, such as Sally and her husband Andrew, or Felix and his girlfriend (although this one is debatable), love interest is not really needed in this game. We can promote diversity and representation within the game with the use of charms, character cosmetics, events, etc.
Why does there need to be a purpose? Is it relevant that Dwight was on a camping trip? Is Trapper's dad's mine relevant? Why can't things just be?
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162787#Comment_2162787
Because I don't think it's fair to call it all just blanket pandering? You said it yourself the word Pandering has negative connotations for one reason or another.
Well, it is all pandering, by definition. The fact that people attribute negative qualities to "pandering", as opposed to "appealing" (the same way they use "expat" instead of "immigrant" depending on the country of origin) doesn't change the fact that people are being pandered to with everything.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162762#Comment_2162762
Yeah but do you agree that (outside of fanservice ofc) they only do things like SIlent Hill, RE and so on because they know it's an easy way to sell a chapter and the game itself.
Big franchises with huge fanbases = easy $$$
It's not about pandering it's about appealing to demographics for money, you could make the argument that the logic applies to original chapters like All-Kill and so on.
It's not about pandering it's about appealing to demographics for money
Just what do you think pandering is? It's literally trying to appeal to a specific demographic.
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@ProfoundEnding said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162744#Comment_2162744
My point was you seemed to combat his argument about David being straight with that statement. When nothing, not even the devs statement confirms him as straight. As having an ex-girlfriend in no way makes him heterosexual. He was in a heterosexual relationship, which is what the devs admitted to, but that doesn't mean he is heterosexual.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think David is LGBT personally, but I just won't make that claim without 100% proof. And him having an ex-girlfriend just isn't enough proof.
Let's treat each other like adults here. Nobody assumes David might be anything but straight. It's disingenuous to claim "Well, but he could still be straight!". We all know that's not what the devs were going for, so let's stop pretending otherwise. He's not a real person with an ongoing life, he's a fictional character whose personality traits exist as strings in a video game's code. He was written to be straight.
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@slipttees said:
Just play. All are Human. Bye
Exactly. Don't worry about the devs adding LGBT characters, we're all human.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
Oh, and having a queer character wouldn’t be pandering. If they were trying to pander they’d have released swimsuit cosmetics for David, Jake, Felix, Quentin, etc
Wouldn’t be mad about it though
That's where you're wrong, it'd definitely be pandering. Everything is pandering, as a matter of fact. Silent Hill chapter is pandering to SH fans. Evil Dead chapter is pandering to Evil Dead fans. However, "pandering" only becomes a dirty word when it's for LGBT characters. It's like saying "expat" instead of the more apt term "immigrant" depending on the country of origin.
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@ProfoundEnding said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2160652#Comment_2160652
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they said in their statement that they only placed their characters in heterosexual relationships, not that the characters themselves were heterosexual.
Potato, potahto. You can substitute "character" (or "killer/survivor") for "lore". The argument is the same, nothing changes.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162698#Comment_2162698
Oh, I totally agree. I wasn’t saying we should have stereotypical representation. It’s just it feels like there’s a mindset in this thread that stereotypical gay people are lesser, which isn’t ok.
That was definitely not my intention, and if anyone feels that way, I apologize for not being clear.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162645#Comment_2162645
Here's what you don't understand.....
If you come out and officially say a character is Bi.....then guess what....he's not gay.
If you come out and officially say a character is Gay....then guess what....he's not Bi.
If you comeout and say a character is a Lesbian.... then guess what.....she's not Gay.
^ I know you tend to not see the scope of the full picture here. But if you don't say a character is any of those things above....
Then the character can be anything and everything for everyone....WHICH IS FAR MORE INCLUSIVE than saying
Jake...is only into girls...not only that he was born a guy....
Or Feng Min....yeah shes only into girls and would never be bi...also....She was born a girl.
This is what you're not getting, and its the same thing Riot didn't get when they released Lucian....people are not monoliths. When you tie down a character with traits that are monolithic you end up with monolithic problems. The artistic genius of leaving a blank canvas dissolves monoliths, thats where this wacky ass French team had it right. But hey if you wanna go back to the world we all live in currently instead of the artistic concept the game first came out with you're more than welcome to open that pandoras box. But like I said, you put too much trust in BHVR, don't @ me when this ######### goes sideways....
Again, Nurse, 2016. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.
I won't @ you, don't worry. I doubt I'll even remember your name (I'm terrible with those).
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@WexlerWendigo said:
Also, there is nothing wrong with ‘feminine’ or ‘obvious’ gay people. The idea that every queer character has to have their sexuality only kept to an obscure reference to avoid pandering is homophobic, even in other gay people. Internalised homophobic exists, the ‘I’m not like other gays’ is not a healthy mindset.
My gay boyfriend has a high-pitched voice (at least higher pitched than the norm) and can't grow a beard. Believe me, I have no problems with stereotypical gay people. However, it is a fact that the stereotypes are the ones that get featured the most. Let's get some non-stereotypical representation going, yeah?
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@B_Random said:
We got Trickster, isn't that enough for you?
OP asked for LGBT survivors/killers, not musicians.
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@stikyard said:
I'm pretty sure Trickster is gay.
Because he was in a KPOP band?
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2160766#Comment_2160766
Ok since we're gonna play strawman games, please point to where I "LITERALLY" said any of that since your posts have "LITERALLY" been transphobic all thread...
Um...
@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2160703#Comment_2160703
No, just retcon the parts of the lore that mention relationships so people can insert or speculate whatever they want. I mean sex is part of someones private life and what they do in private. By adjusting a few lines of text for the Nurse and David, problem solved. Since apparently people don't have enough imagination to inflect their own sexual desires on a fictional character. Like I said just because David has an ex girlfriend doesn't mean you know everything that goes on in his private life. As a character there could be other reasons why she's an ex. He could be into men on the side, you never know because its not mentioned. So it'd prolly work out better to just dump that bit.....and now he's whatever you want him to be.
You are saying this in opposition of people asking for LGBT lore to be treated like non-LGBT lore.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162518#Comment_2162518
Can I ask you a serious question
What do you actually consider to be appropriate representation? Is it one character that belongs to the LGBT community? Is it multiple all with different characteristics? How many is too little, too much?
This isn't a snarky question, I am genuinely curious.
You'd have to ask the people for whom representation matters. I'm not one of them, I'm just advocating for them. I will say, though, that having literally just one is most likely a very good start.
@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2160805#Comment_2160805
Actually you'd be wrong because I spoke up way back then on a dif account. Saying, "Whats the point of having this lore about who Nurse was in love with when here entire character is built up around a job of being a Nurse." It was bad fanfic writing, about as empty as shipping an ex relationship for Michael Myers....HE IS THEEE MONSTER. Its like throwing out "Hey man Michael Myers really likes Legos" <--unless you're also going to introduce a section of the movie where people get away by lobbing legos at Myers its irrelevant to his lore and just a random thrown in bit for padding and then never use it again. And Nurse is especially bad because they don't even go into detail as to why she twisted. At least with the Original Myers lore it mentions WHY he became the way he did. And I know I'm comparing a AAA writing staff that went on to make legendary movies to a video game team....but, writing is writing.
Source? I'd definitely respect you a lot more if that's the case, because at least you're consistent, unlike so many others. I'd still disagree with you, just for the record, but I'd respect you a lot more.
@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162035#Comment_2162035
Again, tomayto tomahto. it's modifying the lore to tack on the label of "gay," which wasn't accepted well by a lot of good and bad actors in the community.
That's not what a strawman is. I didn't impugn anybody of holding any contention, this or that. What I did say was that creating a gay character is usually a catch-22, and creating one that actually gets a good reception by the community is just a lot of work that BHVR might not find compelling to do. DBD sales aren't going to go up if there's a gay guy in the mix. Overwatch's sales didn't go up when and because Soldier 76 got his reveal, same with when Tracer got her reveal.
Plus, it's not like most of the characters are decidedly straight. Most of their lores make no mention of romantic entanglements, with some exceptions like Nurse and David (I think) using them as character development. BHVR isn't the final sayer on lore, especially when it's left open and ambiguous. Whoever makes Overwatch hasn't made any comment on Zarya's sexuality but ask anybody in the community and they'll tell you she's a lesbian (which is kind of going back to the point about "distinct LGTBQ features," since they're really just judging her based on how she looks and talks).
BHVR isn't the final sayer on lore, especially when it's left open and ambiguous.
Yes, they are. "Death of the author" is a silly concept. If BHVR says something is X, then it is X.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2160703#Comment_2160703
No, just retcon the parts of the lore that mention relationships so people can insert or speculate whatever they want. I mean sex is part of someones private life and what they do in private. By adjusting a few lines of text for the Nurse and David, problem solved. Since apparently people don't have enough imagination to inflect their own sexual desires on a fictional character. Like I said just because David has an ex girlfriend doesn't mean you know everything that goes on in his private life. As a character there could be other reasons why she's an ex. He could be into men on the side, you never know because its not mentioned. So it'd prolly work out better to just dump that bit.....and now he's whatever you want him to be.
It's funny that LGBT people are expected to just "use their imagination" and be content with fan fiction, but heterosexuals aren't.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Deleting those mentions won't make them go away.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162015#Comment_2162015
Nope he can walk away from your kick just like surviors can move away from a grab. Have YOU ever played against the twins?
The other day I was legit body blocked in a corner by victor and couldn't kick him. Never even had a prompt to kick and he blocked me for a good 15- 20 seconds before he decided to pounce.
I just tested it in KYF, you can definitely crush him while he's in the cooldown, even if he's moving.
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@piggygooik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162108#Comment_2162108
can he move at normal speed or does he movie slower.
Much, much slower.
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No, the killers who are 4.4 m/s are killers whose default power (so Corrupt Purge doesn't count) can actually down survivors and is ranged. Both have to be true for the killer to be 4.4 m/s. The only exception so far is PH, but his ranged attack has a very short range.
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I tried it in KYF. The only difference is you have to be closer to Victor to crush him.
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@Weeb_H_Toast said:
Sexual orientation and gender politics don't belong in a horror game. Leave both vague, that way we don't have particular characters get targeted, we don't mix sex and slashing. ew
You're several years too late at this point, sexual orientation has been here for some time.
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@Harold_Shipman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162042#Comment_2162042
I'm not following very well, was it not an argument for more bi characters...?
No, it was an argument for "just because they had heterosexual relationships doesn't mean they're heterosexual", which is disingenuous. Sure, they might not be heterosexual, but that's not what the devs intended and everyone knows it.
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@Harold_Shipman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161982#Comment_2161982
In fairness, as a Bi man, he has a point; it does irk me pretty bad when I see "he has a wife, so he's straight" or vice versa, or even worse, a male character has a male partner after having a female partner and "he's gay now".
I'm bi too, but let's not pretend anyone actually assumes bisexuality is a possibility in that instance. It's a bad-faith argument.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162000#Comment_2162000
Tomatyo tomahto. The point isn't about changing and modifying already existing characters (the devs already did an LGBT retcon, we don't know who though). The point is about the paradox between adding significant changes and staying away from unflattering stereotypes, since most so-called "LGBT" traits are considered in some negative light.
It's not a retcon, it's a lore expansion. And your point is moot when most people want exactly what I said: a line in the lore, just like heterosexuals got. You're creating a strawman, plain and simple, instead of listening to what people are actually saying.
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@[Deleted User] said:
- Charlotte can now rotate while waking up.
- Victor's successful Pounce cooldown is 5 seconds (was 3 seconds).
- Victor can now move during the successful Pounce cooldown.
- Silencing Cloth grants Undetectable for 20 seconds (was 12 seconds).
- Iridescent Pendant inflicts Exposed for 30 seconds (was 12 seconds).
everyone was crying about #2
now you're complaining that #3 exists? #3 is the biggest buff to
the twinsVictor EVER.last i checked, you cant kick victor when victor is moving. what's the point in #2 nerf if #3 makes him unkickable???
TWINS ARE MORE OP
Pretty sure he'll still be kickable during the cooldown, otherwise it'd be almost impossible to crush him.
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@RenDesune said:
I think every killer hates the corn
I'm a survivor main and I hate it too.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161988#Comment_2161988
Let's keep the theatrics out of this. We aren't bowing down to anybody and I don't even know who my grandparents are. Again. Non-substantial changes = Overwatch crapshow.
Nobody said anything about changing the lore, that's all you. We're talking about additions to the lore, like the tomes, or even completely new characters. So the Overwatch thing isn't relevant.
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@Zixology said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161935#Comment_2161935
A mod will likely move it. It will then get no further notice by players. That's why we all post in General.
If a post is moved, it's dead.
And yet, if it gets moved, it'll get attention from the devs. If the goal is to suggest things to the devs, then having it in the right place is good. On the other hand, players can just go and post there. There's nothing stopping them.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161970#Comment_2161970
Right, but as I said, just changing a few words in post makes it seem like a diversity hire. Video game history is rife with people freaking out about characters turning out to be gay because some editor changed the pronouns of their significant other. Soldier 76 got tweaked to be gay and the toxic hellhole that is the Overwatch community went nuts. F-slurs flying everywhere, bad-faith actors crying diversity hire, good-faith actors crying diversity hire, you name it.
Right, but as I said, just changing a few words in post makes it seem like a diversity hire.
Not changing, doing it similarly, but changing a pronoun. It's really not that complicated. And if we're going to kowtow to bigots, what did our forefathers fight and die for?
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2160037#Comment_2160037
That's not really how sexual representation works. Nurse is not confirmed to be straight, she's confirmed to have a heterosexual relationship.
So far, the devs have stated that people are free to implicate sexuality upon their characters as long as it fits their lore and as long as it is unconfirmed.
That's not really how sexual representation works. Nurse is not confirmed to be straight, she's confirmed to have a heterosexual relationship.
Be honest: do you actually believe that? Because these arguments are never used except when LGBT representation comes up.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
It's a precarious tightrope for BHVR to run. Almost always, there will be a catch-22 between getting called out for a so-called "diversity hire" or basing them off of stereotypes.
If BHVR just adds in that the next character had a same sex lover and that doesn't cause any substantial difference than if they were straight, or unidentified sexually (as is the case for most characters now), then people call them out for just duct taping the "LGBT" epithet on as a diversity hire. Meanwhile, if they have it so that the character displays so-called "gay" traits, then they get called out for offensive stereotypes.
And that's the paradox in the whole situation. How do you effectively convey that a character is gay? The few "gay" character traits there are, (lisps, effeminate behavior, etc), are decidedly insulting. You can't make a superficially "gay" character without making it seem like a shallow and cheap appeal to LGBT peoples, but you can't make a substantially "gay" character without involving some negative stereotypes. What are they gonna do? Walk faster? (psst, we already have fixated).
There are some cases where a character is distinguishably "gay" while still extricating them from negative stereotypes. Trixie Mattel and Katya Zamolodchkova are drag queens and still the best people you'll ever know. If you add in the inner repression of sexuality involved with growing up gay in a less-than-excited family and/or society as a major part of a character's backstory, then you'd have a case (albeit a bit cliché). But those require superb and tactful story-building skills. And that's just a minefield of controversy that BHVR doesn't need.
How do you effectively convey that a character is gay?
You know how they conveyed Nurse had a husband? It's the same, but instead of "husband", it's "wife".
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161679#Comment_2161679
You got me. I secretly hate gays. I'm actually a hate-filled bigot. You know me well, you're obviously very well versed in the friendships I've had within the LGBT community, the things I've done to help them, and basically who I am as a human being. It's amazing what kind of truths psychoanalysis and guesswork can provide, but who needs those when you have that nice psychiatry degree on your wall, which I'm sure you do.
You win, I'll be leaving this thread. I am completely and utterly exhausted from trying to explain that I'm on your side, I simply don't like the intolerant, petty, belligerent way that you choose to go about your mission. Ironically this is what I complained about in the first place: You don't make your point in a positive way by being a jerk to anyone who happens to disagree with you. But in the end what's the point? You have the highest post count, you've dealt with ######### before, so you can innately sense that I am also one of those ######### because...I've tried to defend myself with too many posts. Shrug. Alright.
The saddest thing about this experience is - and you don't believe me but I no longer give a ######### - that I never met anyone who made me question my support and goodwill for the LGBT community until I met you. So good luck, I hope you get all that you want and more, and thank you for being a shining example of the patience, kindness, respect, and tolerance that you claim to be all that you want from anyone else.
You got me. I secretly hate gays. I'm actually a hate-filled bigot. You know me well, you're obviously very well versed in the friendships I've had within the LGBT community, the things I've done to help them, and basically who I am as a human being. It's amazing what kind of truths psychoanalysis and guesswork can provide, but who needs those when you have that nice psychiatry degree on your wall, which I'm sure you do.
Your words, not mine. Mine were essentially "you do care, or you wouldn't be arguing this much".
The saddest thing about this experience is - and you don't believe me but I no longer give a [BAD WORD] - that I never met anyone who made me question my support and goodwill for the LGBT community until I met you. So good luck, I hope you get all that you want and more, and thank you for being a shining example of the patience, kindness, respect, and tolerance that you claim to be all that you want from anyone else.
Yes, I've heard this before. It's very common for bad-faith actors (not saying you are one, just noting the similarities) to claim to have been on "the other side" until they met/saw/heard someone or something. A very basic and common debate strategy to try to dissuade those who are "on the fence" about an issue or their support for a cause.
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Rule of thumb: always assume the Nurse is bugged after a big patch, especially if it includes any changes to level design.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
Also, this should go without saying, but being against intolerance doesn’t make you intolerant. It’s just not accepting that bigotry is an acceptable standpoint.
The paradox of tolerance. To tolerate intolerance is intolerant in and of itself. It's saying "I accept intolerance", which isn't tolerant.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161144#Comment_2161144
Your argument assumes that what you think is okay is more important than what someone else might think is okay. That because something may be a huge part of your life it has to be a huge part of the games you play.
But I've realized that I can't win with you either. You've misquoted me and put words in my mouth such as "gays shouldn't be in the media and if they are they're being shoved down my throat". That completely misconstrues my argument and I never said anything of the sort. If you're not referring to me, I'd be curious as to who you are.
I've said my peace, I'm exhausted being forced to defend what I consider to be rational views on the basis that they don't happen to align 00 percent with yours, even if we're in agreement on the end result. Mock me, block me, whatever you like. I've been as polite as I can manage and my comments are still being picked apart. I feel that this thread has demonstrated multiple times that for claims of wanting nothing more than inclusion and acceptance, there is a surprising rush to judgment and notable lack of tolerance on display.
It's "General Discussions". Some discussion is to be expected. You don't have to engage if you don't want to.
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@Harold_Shipman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161679#Comment_2161679
The "I am worried for BHVR topic" is very nice, you'll be pleasantly surprised.,
You were right, I was.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161070#Comment_2161070
I said that I don't care either way. I thought I was super clear about the fact that a character's sexuality in this game doesn't bother me one way or the other because it's not something that I really think about.
I feel like I there's just no way I can win here. I tried.
Your actions don't match your words.
People who are genuinely indifferent to something don't bother with it (see my analogy with what we do in science). They might take notice of the thing they don't care about, but they won't make however many comments you just made in this thread. For example, I noticed there's a thread titled "I am worried for BHVR.". From the title, I can probably guess what it's about, but I don't care, so I didn't even bother to click on it.
If you truly didn't care, you would not be arguing this much. You wouldn't even have made a single comment. You'd have glossed over the thread entirely.
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@xEzekanarioX said:
No bhvr. You make too many mistakes but dont fall for this one. Just please
Nah, they haven't given out release dates too much in advance precisely because they learned from their mistakes. Or did you mean something else?
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@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161193#Comment_2161193
My opinion isn't an attack on you. Anyways, much like most people, I'm just gonna back away from this now. It's not worth it.
You outright said people who wanted an LGBT character were doing a "militant push" and that the whole thread made you "cringe and want to crawl under a rock".
It might not be an attack on @Mooks specifically, but it was definitely hostile.
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@Boss said:
Wow, this topic sure always gets crowded with comments, doesn't it?
From what i recall from a dev comment, they said the team starts work on chapters very early, i think they said a year.
I wager we don't have one yet because the chapters of the last 12 months were already being made.
And that's of course no guarantee the one after the RE chapter will include a character of the alphabet.
Heck, they might not make it a new chapter at all, but make it a thing with an existing character using the Archives.
I do remember they said one of the characters already in the roster was created with being LGBT in mind.
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@Elena said:
As a gay man, I hope they do it right.
A nice nod to their sexuality in their backstory would make me abundantly happy, nothing big, nothing that defines that character, just a glance at their sexuality i.e "his/her/their boyfriend etc".
That's what people want.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
As a gay person myself, whenever these topics come up I just cringe and want to crawl under a rock and hide.
Gay people get hooked and die the same way as straight people. A gay sociopathic killer is just as murder-y. I couldn't care less to have "representation" in the pool of people running for their lives from a chainsaw wielding freak.
I'm so sick of the militant push by a small minority of people to shove to rainbow into everything lol.
I'm so sick of the militant push by a small minority of people to shove to rainbow into everything lol.
People are just wondering when the LGBT character the devs said was coming is actually coming. It's like asking a shopkeep when he'll have an item he said he was going to get.
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@Awakey said:
Not this again.
I'm just going to leave my opinion here, and honestly if I get in trouble for it, I don't give #########. ATP it would just be suppression of my freedom of speech.
I have no issue with a character being gay or bi or lesbian. While I feel it to be unnecessary and "catering" (one could say), I can swallow my pride for that and suck it up
However, as a conservative and a proud believer of science I don't believe a trans character aligns with my beliefs about biology. I (and many others I know) wouldn't appreciate having one in the game. That's putting it lightly.
Any replies to this comment need to be directed to my wall. I enjoy discussion.
However, as a conservative and a proud believer of science I don't believe a trans character aligns with my beliefs about biology. I (and many others I know) wouldn't appreciate having one in the game. That's putting it lightly.
You should look into the science of transgenderism. It's not the same as what we learned in high school biology. It's much more complex, nuanced, and confirms what trans people with gender dysphoria have been saying all along: they're in the wrong body.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2160994#Comment_2160994
The problem, as I see it, is that I seriously don't care at all about sexuality of any kind in this game. Which characters are gay and which are straight is something that would honestly never enter my mind. It's just not something I think about. Maybe that's unusual? I don't know. I just wanted a game where survivors tried to escape killers. When I first got it I had no idea how deep the lore went, and the fact that there are heterosexual relationships doesn't make the game any better or worse to me. I'm completely indifferent. To ME, it doesn't matter. It's a detail that does nothing to change my opinion of the game or its characters. So for that reason, them being gay really makes no difference to me. It's redundant information. If this were a dating simulator, as some have joked(?) then I would find the topic much more relevant. I can't speak for everyone else but that's why I'm not complaining about the heterosexuality in this game: I don't care about the heterosexuality, or any sexuality for that matter, in this game. That's not what the game is about to me. It's a level of detail that, for better or worse, I am honestly not concerned with.
I they want to make everyone in the game straight, fine. If they want to make everyone in the game gay and / or trans, fine. If they want to remove all mentions of sexuality, fine. Again, for ME, these are details that have no bearing on my enjoyment of the game which is why I, perhaps in contrast to the others who came before, don't say anything about the relationships. I just play the game and don't think about them. When I'm being killed by The Hillbilly he's an #########, not the innocent child who was fed through a wall. When I attack a teabagging player, I don't care whether I like the character that I'm playing as. I don't consider the finer details when I play. I just play. That doesn't mean that I'm "right", or "better", it's just why I don't put as much stock into the lore as some of the rest of you do. To me the lore is optional, it's garnish for the main meal.
Given that the non-heterosexual stuff, just like the heterosexual stuff, will be in the lore, why did you feel the need to say this?
@miketheratguy said:
No character should be defined by their sexual orientation. Peoples' personal agendas invade enough of daily life, I like to play video games to get away from them. The Blight may be gay. The Plague may be trans. The Demogorgon may be heavily into amputee porn. I don't care. I don't want to know. It isn't necessary.
I don't want to see a LBQT killer any more than I want to see a BLM killer, a Trump supporter killer, a pro-life killer, a pro-choice killer, a sanctuary city killer, a white supremacist killer, etc etc etc etc etc. I don't want nor need to have divisive modern-day identity politics applied to the characters in my games for the sake of "inclusion" and arbitrary forced "diversity". All I care about is how they were killed and what made the Entity choose them.
It will literally not affect you, you will not "see" anything unless you go out of your way to read the lore (that you claim not to care about).
This goes back to what I said: nobody cares about the lore until it might have non-heterosexual references. Then it's a huge ######### deal.
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@Zixology said:
Or, better yet, who cares?
It's not a game about sex. It's a game about murder. Keep it about murder.
######### like this is why the devs aren't focusing enough on game balance.
I highly doubt the team who writes the lore has any say in the balance department.