NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@Todgeweiht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1548502#Comment_1548502
Soul guard and repressed alliance are pretty good. I do agree the new survivor perks are atrocious, which is sad because Felix looks beatiful.
All 3 of her perks are good. I run blood pact in my primary Survivor build.
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They already have. What they haven't added is a casual mode to contrast it
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@SpaceCoconut said:
Either this or he'll be incredibly loopable with an unnecessary cooldown to his power that doesn't help him with map presence or chase power.
Or both. Old legion proved it was possible
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@zoozoom6 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1547408#Comment_1547408
what did the addons do before they were made base? i havent heard of this
Plague got a fountain corrupted at the start of the trial.
Demogorgon got the ability to break pallets with shred. The add-on was replaced with an undetectable addon after each teleport.
Bubba got increased chainsaw movement speed.
Doctor got increased shock range and reverse skill checks. The reverse skill check add-on was replaced with the donut shock addon.
The addons I didn't mention a replacement for were unchanged despite being added to the base kit. Thus you can stack the buff with the addon for even MORE power.
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They've done it before so yeah totally.
Plague, demogorgon, bubba, doctor
All of those Killers recently had at least one of their addons made basekit
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@Kolonite said:
He’s the best stealth killed, but he’s around mid B tier. There are MANY killers who outclass him. Just none can do it when it comes to stealth and hit and run play style.
I wouldn't say anyone outclasses him.
You say someone outclasses someone else when they are a straight upgrade. For example pre-nerf billy outclassed pre-buff bubba.
Another example would be that a lot of people would argue that Huntress outclasses the Deathslinger because she does the same thing Deathslinger does but better.
So for a Killer to outclass Ghostface that would mean they do what Ghostface does but better. And no one does the stealth hit and run playstyle better than Ghostface.
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The 2 options listed aren't mutually exclusive btw.
That said I'm pretty sure it IS the alchemist while I'm only just thinking he MIGHT be a werewolf as one of many possibilities. So that's my answer.
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Temporal Blackout: After you break a pallet, press the active ability button to instantly regress all nearby generators by 20/30/50%.
How long after you break a pallet? And define "nearby".
Eye of the Future: Survivors performing any form of action in the Killer's terror radius lose the charge of their tools 10/18/25% faster. You become immune to flashlights while on Bloodlust I,II, and III.
This is just overwhelming presense but even worse somehow. The bloodlust effect doesn't matter since you lose bloodlust when you break a pallet or down a Survivor, which are the times when being blinded matters.
And overwhelming presence is useless at 100%, so it's definitely useless at 25%.
Hex: Timefall: While this hex is active, any survivor you down teleports their item to a dull totem, which then appears as a hex totem. The item is sent back to the original owner once the dull totem is cleansed or the hex totem is cleansed. Every item you take gives you a token.
1-2 Tokens- Gens regress 25% faster.
3-4 Tokens- You recover from pallet stuns 50% faster.
5-6 Tokens- You gain a obsession. The obsession suffers from the broken status effect.
7-8 Tokens- You can now kill your obsession.
Why is this also franklins? Just have the perk give tokens on any down and have no explicit item interaction.
Also by the time you get 8 downs a mori is completely redundant since everyone will be at least 2 hooked by then.
Either way though, it's outclassed by devour hope in terms of payoff and scaling speed.
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Also what exactly do you mean by slowing down falling pallets? Pallets don't fall. They are thrown by Survivors.
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Ok this iteration is missing some information.
In particular:
What is the magnitude of the slowdown/speedup?
How long does the power take to activate?
How fast does the Killer move while activating his power?
How exactly does temporal bow work? (charge time, velocity, range, special properties ect)
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@Chromeskull said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1546834#Comment_1546834
I reworked it almost completely. Try reading it again and tell me if u like it.
Gah! And I just finished making my analysis.
I guess I have to make another one now ;(
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Ok so to break it down:
1 - Terror radius. Why is it 24 meters instead of 32? He isn't a 110% Killer and his power neither interacts with the TR nor does it need a power boost that a smaller TR would give.
2 - You need to define the size of the area effected by his power.
That said, assuming it's the size of clowns bottles it's a bit overloaded. The only relevant effect is the slowdown since 20 seconds isn't relevant for general completions given that you start out in the center of the area.
If it's much larger (and I do mean MUCH larger, like 12 meters ect), then the action speed slowdown and tracking suddenly makes sense, but the movement speed slowdown would be completely and utterly busted. In all honesty it's still busted with a smaller radius but at least then it's less of an auto-win button and more of a trap mechanic.
Moonlight manipulation is not a valid ability for technical reasons. The devs tried and had to remove the relevant offerings that used to do this. So that has to be scrapped entirely, it also doesn't really do much anyways.
Day time is... kinda pointless? 20 seconds of daylight for 5 seconds of committed time isn't worth it unless it does something completely crazy, but all this does is give him impossible skill check build synergy for no real reason. Why is this a thing again? Especially given that it slows you down.
Eye of time is literally just the spirits power without a cooldown. Obviously that's not ok.
Ultimately though, the issue here is that the Killer is trying to do too many things at once.
He has 3 separate powers
the first has 3 effects (action speed slowdown, ms slowdown, aura reading)
the second has 5 effects (blindness, skill check odds increase, bloodlust buildup increase, visibility increase and ms decrease)
the third has "only" 2 effects (ms increase and 2 way invisibility)
That's a total of 10 completely different effects packed into a single kit with no real unifying strategy. These abilities aren't synergizing with each other nor are they building towards a single cohesive playstyle.
Try and pair down the effects to as few as possible in order to get the idea to work and flesh that out as much as possible. It's not that having a lot of mechanics is inherently bad, but that the mechanics need to feed into each other in one way or another.
Like how ghostfaces stalk, reveal and stealth mechanics all work together to create an ambush based Killer that needs to take careful consideration into LoS going both ways and find unexpected angles to approach from.
Or how Plagues vile purge shuts down altruism with corrupt giving a payoff if the Survivors try to group up anyways.
Or even Freddies lullaby not portraying distance to the Survivor making it possible to use his teleport to cut off a Survivor unexpectedly
And the Executioners trials let him see a Survivor through walls to set up a punishment of the damned shot, and his cages let him snowball instanely hard in combination thus supporting his hyper-chase playstyle given by his anti-loop.
Try and create something like that if you are going to have several powers. Where the powers make you want to combine their effects for a big payoff rather than just being able to use a desperate set of abilities.
Also try and pin down exactly what this Killer is trying to be.
How does this Killer get downs? How does his abilities play into the utility he is supposed to have? What play-style does this Killers want Survivors to have? How does the Survivor go about countering this Killer? If they are countering the Killer, how can a sufficiently skilled Killer player potentially win anyways? (Note: The answer to that last question should always require the use of hard reads. Otherwise it's not much of a counter in the first place).
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Anymore?
This was a thing since launch and has only been getting better slowly but surely ever since.
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@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1545623#Comment_1545623
Well, how can I prove Google wrong? Not gonna happen. It's clearly PWYF, which I've stated many times is every Myers' headlining perk.
Simple. Go into KYF and measure how long it takes Myers to travel the length of a specific object (ex: Killer shack) in T2. Then go into T3 and time it again.
Take the difference and from there the rest is just basic math to determine how much faster T3 is compared to T2 (hint: it will be 0%)
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@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1545569#Comment_1545569
Google it I'm not your parent.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1545539#Comment_1545539
Don't know what the term "potato killer" is, engaging fellow red rankers in any field is like engaging hydrochloric acid with your face: annoying, grating, and possibly deadly if you stay even slightly too long and consider "hm, maybe this acid will make me reflect a bit better on my opinions".
God as soon as you people gain Global Elite or Red rank it's like you're senior experts on everything, when all you did was play the game like everyone else. Anyone can get red rank, source me. I'm a complete idiot.
Yes, all you have to do to loop T3 Myers is simply sprint burst, dead hard, pray to Jesus and hope he forgot how to Lunge Attack. Pre-rework Nurse sure was balanced and not an elaborate stress-ball for blue-balled Killer mains isn't she. Spirit being a Wraith that turns completely invisible? Damn, we need more of that.
Tell me more about how Survivors should rely on pure pure skill all the time and then go main your favorite killer, oh right. Spirit. Righttttttttttttttttttt.
Your claim contradicts Google. Thats why I'm asking you to prove it.
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If T3 is a speed boost over T2 then tell me EXACTLY how big of a speed boost it is.
If you don't know off the top of your head then go in game and measure it.
If he really does have a speed boost then you should be able to use a timer and some basic math figure out how big the speed boost is.
For reference T2 (and as you will find T3) is 115%
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No. It's just mashing the teleport button really fast. Even if you remind it to a mouse wheel that's still what you are ultimately doing.
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@Koukdw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1531308#Comment_1531308
Ph is at 4.4 when using his trail still way faster than survivor + he can cancel his trail for free.
There is a much larger initial slowdown when you start using your power.
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@Dpooly said:
@NuclearBurrito But with sound bugs and all...
The sound bugs have always been with environmental sounds like breathing and footsteps.
Global sounds like gens popping have been pretty consistent.
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@Emelia said:
Yes, totally stupid. Of course he is not werewolf...
Behold! The true form of Alchemist! :D
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WIGNZUBA273R/92578725e595c02d01af6357cceb5a94.jpg
A bunny?
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@Dpooly said:
All we need is a totem counter, whether it be a shrine in the map itself or just a simple addition to the HUD.
Or to be less intrusive, a sound effect survivors hear when a dull totem is cleansed.
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So THATS why crossplay improved que times so much!
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@GhostFace_Killer said:
ok i see, well i wasnt exactly completely set on the transformation power, but id def want to keep some sort of blood drinking mechanic. Another idea i had was give the Vampire a memorize ability that would make the survivor seek out the other nearest survivor so the vampire could follow them and have the opportunity to attack them both, while also cutting down on the amount of time the killer spends searching for other survivors.
Edit:
Also i maybe some sort of dash ability would be cool, something like an cooldown ability that alows the Vampire to pass through pallets and such but give it a reasonable cool down time so its not abused. But also allowing the killer to shave off time by drinking blood of survivors
Blood drinking mechanic on a vampire is absolutely a must. My own vampire concept had one too:
@NuclearBurrito said:
The vampire
Terror Radius: 32 Meters
Movement Speed: 4.6 M/S (115%)
Power: Blood ritual - You may lunge forwards and attempt to grab a Survivor (same mechanics as a standard lunge but with a grab at the end). If successful you will suck the Survivors blood over 1 second, tossing them in front of you afterwards. If the Survivor was healthy they will become injured, otherwise you will charge your power bar by 33%. Hooking a Survivor will also charge the power bar by 33%. The Killer may move at 2 M/S (50%) while sucking a Survivors blood.
If the power bar is full you may preform a 2 second channel to create a coffin around a downed Survivor. If you do so you will become unleashed. A Survivor placed in a coffin will NOT lose a hook state and will automatically free themselves after 60 seconds, another Survivor can free them early with a 2 second channel. The coffins white aura will be revealed to all players ignoring the effects of blindness.
Once unleashed the Killer moves at 4.7 M/S (117.5%), can see the aura of injured Survivors within 12 meters and can fire a blood tether at Survivors within 12 meters. The tether is hit scan and if it hits a Survivor and it remains unbroken and in range for 1 second it will damage the Survivor one health state. The tether will instantly break if any object passes between the Survivor and the Killer other than another Survivor. The Killer will slowdown to 4 M/S (100%) while channeling a blood tether.
(basically you press M2, if there is a Survivor directly in front of you then you slow down to 100% MS and a line is drawn between you and the Survivor, if nothing crosses that line for 1 second then damage is dealt, otherwise the attack is canceled).
The Killer will remain unleashed until 10 seconds after the coffined Survivor is released. You may release a Survivor from their coffin early but doing so will also instantly cancel unleashed and put the Survivor in the injured state.
Perks and Addons pending.
You could do some kind of vertical movement ability, however free flight wouldn't work due to how map dependent it is as mentioned in the post I just linked since it came up there too.
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@GhostFace_Killer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1530455#Comment_1530455
That'd probably work out, but i'd like to see a Killer that brought something different rather than just a reskin of another killer
You don't understand. That's the suggestion you put in the OP put in a point by point form with the flavor removed
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Unironically would be a major Killer buff. Imagine being able to spam pop any gen at will even if no Survivor has tapped it.
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@bjorksnas said:
I personally take it as a compliment, if I played well or my intuition found someone in a locker near a gen ill take the hackusation with pride
ikr
False hacking accusations is one of the biggest compliments you can get as a gamer
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@madradfox said:
Ok, clearly someone is extrapolating individual instances to create their own general belief of what is actually happening. Let's look at the actual math, shall we:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8WDQFMEETSP1/dbd-chances.png
No Plunderer's Instinct (assuming item selection precedes rarity)
- Your chance of finding a key is 7%, i.e. 7 keys per 100 , or better yet. 1 key per 14.3 chests
- Only 3 chests spawn in each trial (one of them being a basement chest)
- Hence 1 key will be found every 4.8 trials, if all 3 chests get searched.
- You need at least a purple key to open the hatch
- If the breakdown of possible rarities is 16%, 5%, and 2% across all possibilities, yet keys can only be green, purple or red then if the same odds propagate they become:
- ~69% Green
- ~22% Purple
- ~9% Red
Conclusion: you have about 2.2% chance of finding a purple or red key in every chest you search, or if you search all 3 chests in every trials then it will happen in 1 out of every 16 trials.
No Plunderer's Instinct (rarity before item)
- You need either Purple or Red, but the number of available items at each level varies
- You have 5% of getting purple, and purple item range consists of : 1 flashlight, 2 toolboxes, 1 medkit, 1 key
- Best case scenario: you have a 1 out of 5 chance of getting a purple key i.e 20%
- Worst case scenario: the above item chances also propagate after the rarity is selected, with both medkits and toolboxes given significant priority that far exceeds the propability for a key
Nevertheless, even assuming 1/5 chance as far as items, you get 5% for purple and then 20% afterwards for a total of 1% for a purple key.
- You also have a 2% chance of getting a red item, and only red items are 1 key and 1 map
- Here your worst case scenario would be 50% red key, but its possible keys get some priority over maps
So the total chance given ultra-rare rarity is at the very least 1% red key
For a total of at about 2% to get a purple of red key if rarity plays a role before item. Again approximately 1 out of every 16 trials.
Plunderer's Instinct
- Item before rarity gives approximately 9.5% chance of finding a purple or red key in every chest searched, or about 26% per trial if all 3 chests are searched by the survivor with Instinct. I.e. 1 in every 4 trials with PI
- Rarity before item: if there is no item preference and each has the same probability once the algorithm selects rarity, then the total for purple and red key could be as high as about 13% per chest or approximately ~34% for 3 chests searched I.e. 1 in every 3 trials (9 chests searched ) with PI
Conclusion being, unless there is a problem with my math above, no one cares about your anecdotal experience. Suggesting that 1 out of 16 trials (if all 3 chests searched by you) might yield you a purple or red key is something comparable to Mori is ridiculous. Even looking at the odds with Plunderer's Instinct makes the situation trivial, because if its a case of a survivor equipping a perk then killers can proceed accordingly and equip an item-limiting perk of their own.
As nice as that math is it's also kinda irrelevant until it gets so unlikely that it basically can't happen (1/16 isn't rare enough for that).
This is because swingy scenario's happen on the scope of a single trial, not the average of several trials.
That is to say, if 6% of games have a chest key play then 6% of games are problematic. Low odds doesn't change the magnitude of an issue, just the likely hood of the issue being relevant in the first place. If and when a key IS found it becomes a problem one way or another. And if a key is NOT found then we aren't touching that scenario anyways so it's not relevant.
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He moves at 92% MS while revving.
That's 3.68 M/S or a 0.92 M/S slowdown
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While I agree a vampire would be cool (and have my own vampire idea written up accordingly). This SPECIFIC vampire idea is literally just the wraiths power bust worse and with a cool down.
Wraiths power:
* Undetectable and invisible
* MS increase while power is active
* Cannot attack while using power
* Exiting power takes time
* After exiting power gain a speed boost for a second
This vampire power:
* Undetectable
* MS increase while power is active
* Cannot attack while using power
* Exiting power takes time
* Power has a cool down. Action can be taken to speed up the cooldown
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@IIITweedleIII said:
Get rid of All Mori Offerings
Get rid of All Keys
Get rid of Hatch escapes
Do all Gens. Not just 5
Only Gates to escape.
Get rid of 2nd chance perks
Get rid of NOED
Get rid of Perks
Get rid of Auras
Get rid of SWF
Get rid of all Killers let's all just be survivors
Get rid of crouching let's all just run
Get rid of pointing, come-hereing, swinging weapons
Get rid of 3rd party chat use
Get rid of Text Chat use
Problem Solved. Boring as Hell. But, Problem. Solved 😶
Wait but Survivors are toxic. Get rid of them too
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@Falkner09 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1529732#Comment_1529732
they're the equivalent items for both sides, but keys are slightly stronger at the moment and reward people who immerse without doing gens and get their teammates killed. with moris, you at least get rewarded if you hook someone and down them a second time. Come to think of it, maybe a good alternative could be that a key should only work for a player who's been doing gens. like if it gets charged or something?
So yes, it should be conditional.
No that's not how this works.
You only make one change contingent on another when they impact each other in some way.
For example, the Decisive Strike rework that introduced obsession switching was followed up by a Dying Light rework because Dying Light was made weaker by the DS change.
Or alternatively, brutal strength needed to be nerfed in response to overall pallet breaking speeds going up back in the day.
The point here is that you'd only make a mori nerf contingent on a key nerf if the key nerf somehow was making mori's a problem.
However that's not the case here, Mori's are a problem with or without keys, so thus Mori's need to be nerfed with or without keys. It doesn't matter if they are equivalent, since equivalent things can still have different levels of power.
For example sloppy butcher is equivalent to botany knowledge, but botany knowledge is more impactful due to it's higher numbers (20% vs 33%). And meanwhile NOED is equivalent to Adrenaline, but NOED is the stronger perk.
But either way, just because something's equivalent is getting nerfed that isn't a reason for it to be nerfed. We wouldn't nerf sloppy if botany was reduced to 20%. Instead, we would only do a nerf if both perks happen to be independently too strong.
It's the same deal here. If mori's are a problem, which they are, then mori's should be nerfed regardless of any other changes, unless those other changes somehow make mori's no longer a problem which a key nerf does not.
Sticking a nerf to keys or mori's behind a conditional just makes both of them harder to implement any actual changes for.
TLDR: Even if keys aren't fixed mori's are still a problem.
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7 shouldn't be a conditional.
Keys being a problem is no excuse to not fix moris.
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Define "when you start healing someone" as precisely as possible. Because it's surprisingly vague and potentially abusable depending on definition
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These aren't mutually exclusive.
A situational perk can still be good if you happen to end up in the appropriate situation a lot for whatever reason.
Do you often find yourself being hit by the Killer after being picked up off the ground and/or are you often slugged while cursed?
If yes the perk is good for you. If no then it isn't. Simple as that.
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1526997#Comment_1526997
I'm simply referencing a missed swipe. With Ghostface you don't have to worry about a marked survivor no longer being marked if you miss an attack, and with Leatherface now having been reworked, the three stacks for his chainsaw prevents any needless excess swiping. If the survivor managed to get a good distance from you, you can now end the attack early.
Ghostfaces power goes on cooldown when he misses a swipe.
The mark is the effect of the power and not the power itself. So the appropriate equivalence for Legion would be the deep wound status effect he applies.
Legion does not cleanse deep wounds when he misses his frenzy attack. He just becomes unable to continue applying deep wounds for 20 seconds.
And likewise, Ghostface does not cleanse make when he misses a stealth attack. He just becomes unable to continue applying marks for 30 seconds.
See? The interactions are identical though obviously the payoffs are different.
Now leatherface is a bit different since his power doesn't do individual swips but rather does an continuous rampage.
Ending the rampage early is hardly equivalent to missing an attack, Legion can also end his Frenzy early after all and they both share a cooldown mechanic for doing so.
However he DOES have an equivalent with the tantrum mechanic. And if he hits a non-Survivor he gets a 5+ second stun AND loses all of his charges requiring a 12 second recharge time.
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@SweetTerror said:
I personally don't understand why Legion's FF has to completely replenish on a failed strike. No other Killer's ability works that way, and neither should his. Can you imagine how infuriating it would be if that happened with the Oni or Ghostface?
Actually it works like that for both Leatherface AND Ghostface.
Ghostface even needs to fully replenish even if the strike was successful.
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@slunder said:
@immortalls96 the problem is that his gun is instant so yea, not much counter for survivors.
@SCP_FOR_DBD Freddy snares do not destroy looping potential, I have tested it a lot of time. His alow down add ons are broken, not his base kit. He can tp but there is enough time.
Also, EVERYONE, why are you so negative about this post for literally 2 killers while they are 7 killers? NO ONE talked about them.
Because when people agree with something there isn't anything to discuss.
That said, the Myers suggestion is both extremely gimmicky and limits his potential synergies without actually solving his issues. I'd do something different.
Demogorgon's buffs are a bit too much with how they synergies with each other. It would be more productive to just make the rat liver and rat tail addons basekit and then do an addon pass. MAYBE do the 2nd change but the other 3 are unnecessary.
Having anti-tunnel countermeasures on the pig is redundant, she is one of the worst Killers to tunnel with since her RBT's only give value if you don't tunnel.
Trapper and Wraith sure.
Deathslinger, 24 meters isn't a stealth Killer TR. It's just a 115% TR. Hag and Spirit have the same TR for the same reason and neither of them are considered stealth Killers either.
That said, consider the reason why a Killer would get a non-standard TR. First there is of course the Killers getting it as a direct part of their power like Myers T2. Clearly this reason does not apply to Deathslinger. However the 2nd reason is that slower Killers are more vulnuable to simply holding W and thus a lower TR is needed to compensate so they don't get too much distance too fast relative to the Killers MS.
Nurse and Huntress are exceptions because neither of them are vulnerable to just holding W. Nurse can move extremely quickly almost constantly while Huntress can hit you from across the map if she's good enough no matter how far you run.
Meanwhile, Deathslinger has a limited range of 18 meters, so a Survivor with a lot of starting distance can just hold W and never get caught. So a lower TR is needed to ensure the starting distance of chases isn't too large.
The same exact reason applies to both Hag and Spirit.
Either way though, 24 meters isn't a small enough TR to actually properly sneek up on a Survivor anyways. It's only when you stack it with stealth perks that you can sneak around, at which point duh, it's a stealth perk.
Anyways, then there is the Executioner.
He has 3 parts to his strengths:
- His anti-loop (what you are trying to address)
- His tracking
- His time save via cages
Ok so first of all, his tracking is fairly insignificant. The most value you are likely to get from it is seeing Survivors around a loop, which while useful isn't game changing. You will occasionally see Survivors at range with it, but usually you won't since they can easily crouch over it. Plus it takes time to set up.
Next are his cages, which ARE important. The time save itself in terms of raw seconds isn't that big of a deal however. The value is primarily in that you can do it fast enough to continue a 2nd chase or hook another Survivor without risk of them being picked up. This is important but isn't nearly enough to make a kit work on it's own. Obviously that's not the case but I'm just making sure to cover his other strengths before getting to the topic at hand here.
His anti-loop is what makes him a threatening Killer.
Punishment of the Damned has 3 main purposes:
- Hitting Survivors in an animation
- Hitting a Survivor from out of LoS while they aren't expecting it
- Hitting a Survivor in a VERY narrow hall
Keep in mind that your suggestion was a cooldown and that's what I am evaluating here.
First of all, understand that outside of those 3 conditions you cannot hit a good Survivor. Unlike with a Demogorgon lunge or a Huntress hatchet, you can dodge a PH attack purely reaction so long as you are ready for it (human reaction time is 0.2 seconds, PH's attack is 0.35 seconds at point blank range and 0.15 seconds is enough time to get out of range from the center of the attack)
What this means is that until they attempt a vault, readying PotD is not threatening. Unlike with Demo's shred which causes Survivors to move in advance giving you distance if you fake it in the open, PotD exclusively serves to block vaults and pallets because of this.
When you ARE using it for Survivors in animation it still is like Demogorgon's shred. The difference is that A: It works on pallet drops and B: you can do it from more angles.
While those are important, Demogorgon's shred has it's own benefits of A: Longer range by 3 meters and B: Can be used much faster due to allowing partial charges.
Shred also gives less distance than PotD for the Survivor on both missed and successful attacks. Due to a shorter cooldown and by Shred moving the demogorgon towards the Survivor when used.
So that being said, how does a cooldown effect this? Well all it does is that after a PotD he's an M1 Killer in a chase for awhile. Since PotD has no business being used in a chase when it isn't guaranteed (since as established non-guaranteed hits are effectively guaranteed miss's) that means the cooldown is effectively between successful shot, rather than failed shot. Or are trying to limit ambush shots, which aren't what is even being complained about in the first place. And on top of that, the ability is already comparable in strength to other powers with an even lower cooldown.
It shouldn't be compared to Huntress since Hatches get their strength from their extreme velocity, range and low cooldown. None of which are present for PH, not even range since 8 meters isn't that far outside of anti-loop usage.
Now a cooldown on successful shots isn't exactly adding counterplay. So all this nerf would do is make PH infuriating to play and extremely difficult to pick up while also suddenly losing his snowball potential, thus also making his cages useless since that snowball potential is the entire point of HAVING cages.
So no, he should not have a cooldown, at least not like you've suggested. It would just break his design without actually solving anything.
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@BabyEverything said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1526508#Comment_1526508
its too much to read but im with you on whatever you posted
TLDR:
Most of the perks listed stack rather than synergize
Some of them do synergize but it's not too bad
Killer perks have a lot of synergies as well so it goes both ways.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Ruin + Survellaince
PGTW + Thrilling Tremors
Discordance + Infectious Fright
BBQ + Infectious Fright
M&A + Infectious Fright
Nemesis + PWYF
Thanatophobia + Dying Light
Sloppy Butcher + Thanatophobia
Enduring + Spirit Fury
There also perks that synergize with the killer's power: Stridor on Spirit; Blood Echo on Legion/Plague; PGTW on Freddy; Whispers on Doctor; STBFL on Pig/Deathslinger/Demogorgon.
These are just some that came to my mind, sure there are plenty more, just be creative.
Forced Penance + Thrilling Tremors has been a personal favorite for me lately.
Also BBQ + IF is stacking not synergy.
Thana and Dying Light is anti-synergy, Since their primary effects stack rather than synergise, while Dying Light's downside devalues Thana.
Dying Light can be treated like an anti-injury perk (it's not) for the purposes of synergy rather than an anti-healing perk. So you'd use it with Expose perks or Killers that get easy injuries like Plague, Legion or Deathslinger.
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Ok first of all, do not confuse Synergy with Stacking. 2 perks giving a similar effect even with the other perk active doesn't mean they synergize.
That said to analyze the perks you just listed with regards to each other:
Tenasity, Soul Guard and Unbreakable all have a Synergy, since they make it easier to get access to each others effects. Soul guard has anti-synergy with Adrenaline due to the DW mechanic.
Unbreakable has synergy with DS but Tenasity does not and Soul Guard only has a synergy with the hex effect in play.
Deliverance is anti-synergy with Adrenaline and simply stacks with all of the other perks listed besides DS (which is enabled by this perk) and BT (which enables this perk)
OoO does not have any synergy with any of the perks listed here. Stacking is not a synergy.
In the same vain Dead Hard has no particular Synergy with the listed perks, and even has anti-synergy with Adrenaline.
Other than Deliverance, BT has no synergy with any of the perks mentioned and has anti-synergy with Adrenaline due to how Deep Wounds interacts with Adrenaline.
As for your questions:
Why dont you make Sould Guard only work if someone is picking you up!?
Because the perk itself is designed to work with itself. The perk has an unbreakable effect built in, so triggering off self pickups is required for the perk to work internally even before taking synergy into account.
Why dont you restrict DS to as long as the survivor has DS active he can not recover past 50% on his own?
While this would achieve the goal, it's a very random limitation to have. Even Killer perks with weird limitations have those limitations in the form of niche activation triggers ect.
When a Killer perk has a basic attack requirement, part of the reason why is simply because any non-passive perk needs SOMETHING to use as a trigger to do it's thing, and a basic attack just happens to be the trigger. Asking why a Killer perk triggers on basic attacks is like asking why Autodidact triggers on skill checks.
But what you are proposing is a downside unrelated to the actual effect of the perk. So it's a very un-elegant solution
Why dont you make BT transfer the hit to the person who is saving, this way it would feel more like a trade off then a simply free escape tool.
Assuming that you are suggesting it being like "Survivor A unhooks Survivor B, Survivor B gets hit, Survivor A loses a health state". While this is obviously a massive nerf to the perk, for the purposes of this thread it ironically would INCREASE the perk's synergy, since injury is an activation requirement for several perks, both perks that directly want you to be injured like dead hard and resilience, and perks that decrease the value of an injury like self healing perks and perks like iron will.
Ironically that would make BT have a synergy with other second chance perks where previously there was none. Since second chance perks are triggered off self damage in the first place.
Yes it's an objective decrease in power, but this thread is explicitly about synergy, not power. Such a change would only make BT anti-synergy with perks that require you to stay healthy.
Why dont you make OoO have a cooldown of 60 sec or so 5sec seeing then 60sec cooldown!
While they COULD do the 2nd one, the perk already has a built in downside.
Just having a cooldown however wouldn't work, since a cooldown requires a trigger to start the cooldown, and OoO's effect is continuous. So an explicit trigger is required
Premonition does a similar thing, is worse, is NOT OP in the hands of SWF but still has a cooldown.
Premonition is worse as a direct result of the cooldown. If premonition did not have a cooldown it would easily be the best Survivor perk for tracking the Killer in the game. Since it would tell you exactly which direction the Killer is coming from and could be used to know exactly which path the Killer is taking mid-chase, on top of also telling you where an undetectable Killer is.
TBH this OoO does not belong in this game at all and you devs not understanding it makes me feel that you dont understand your own creation.
Regardless of the truth of this statement, it's not relevant to this thread. OoO has synergy with none of the perks you just listed and only has synergy with perks like Distortion since OoO's downside is negated by them.
OoO's interaction with second chance perks is merely stacking rather than synergizing.
Now as for Killer perks, there are plenty of Synergies there too.
PGTW of course has synergies with both many tracking perks (BBQ, Thrilling, Tinkerer, Discordance, Survailence) but also has a synergy with kick speed-up perks (fire up, brutal strength).
BBQ has synergy with high range or high MS Killer powers, and also has synergy with perks that want you to move away from hooks after a hook. This includes PGTW but also includes MYC and Devour Hope.
Infectious Fright obviously has synergy with terror radius increasing perks but it also has synergy with slugging perks.
Surveillance has a synergy with both direct regression perks (Ruin, Surge) and kick speedup perks (Fire up, Brutal) but also perks that want you to get to Survivors on a gen quickly. Such as PGTW or mindbreaker.
There are plenty of anti-heal and instant down perks, all of which have synergy with undetectable and anti-injury perks.
Some chase perks, such as Enduring + SF have synergy.
Many Obsession perks have a synergy with each other. Nemesis + PWYF for example.
Point is, it is neither true that Survivor perks have overwhelming synergies with their perks nor that Killer perks don't have synergies with theirs.
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With no perks, skill checks or items 4 gens can be completed in 80 seconds.
The remaining gen can be completed in 36 seconds for a total of 116 seconds or 1 minute and 56 seconds.
I'll calculate the fastest time with perks and items and stuff later. But for now just understand that this time can be lowered by a lot.
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@cyniChris said:
By that logic, would you want Nurse to be unable to blink for ~30 seconds after she downs a survivor? Hag to have all her traps disappear? Myers to revert to tier 1? Plague to lose corrupt purge? Oni's power to drain completely?
What the player decides to do after downing someone should not be a reason to nerf a killer.
Now now. That last one actually happened.
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@Demonl3y said:
The real question is, why can Ghostface do that but Michael cant?
Michael can do it.
Just not in ALL cracks due to his inability to crouch. But if you see a Survivor through a crack as Myers you can absolutely stalk them.
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@SloppyKnockout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1522166#Comment_1522166
How is the current exhaustion system "broken"?
The exhaustion system is not a stamina system. That's not what's being fixed here.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1522093#Comment_1522093
Pop also requires knowing which gens to use it on, and the time investment of manually travelling to said gen and manually damaging it.
I’m not saying Surge is stronger than Pop, or vice versa.
Surge removes the time necessary to travel to and damage gens, other than simply checking gens for new survivors to chase. That alone helps with a lot of pressure. I’m simply saying that removing the cool down would be broken/unbalanced if the 8% regression were quickly stacked across multiple gens for downs in quick succession. That Surge only activates if gens are not already regressing, no cooldown has the unintended effect of giving too much information for downs in quick succession in the same area.
That's not an issue BECAUSE it only effects gens that are not regressing.
If you down 2 people back to back then both downs will only give you additional value if either A: There is a 3rd/4th Survivor staying on a gen while you do this or B: If you've moved a significant distance before procing the perk again.
Now I'm not saying those are rare conditions, because they aren't. But usually that limits the 2nd proc to only 1 gen, with the other gens still regressing from the initial down. Useful? Yes. Overpowered? Definitely not.
But even then it's still not much regression, the value is pretty much exclusively coming from all of those OTHER benefits you keep trying to stress. Those benefits are decent yes, enough to make it a valid perk concept, but NOT enough to justify a cooldown.
Heck, it still wouldn't even be stronger than PGTW is outside of synergies. It would however at least allow it to be stronger WITH those synergies, which it should be by the nature of what a synergy is.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1521463#Comment_1521463
It’s not small though if it’s regularly more than 1 gen at a time.
If 2 gens pop that’s 16% regression.
If 3 pop that’s 24% regression.
And like regular damage those gens continue to regress until the survivors jump on them again.
It doesn’t require the killer to travel around to each of those gens and manually damage them, thus it saves a monumental amount of time the in relation to how many gens blow from surge. Meaning the killer can simply hook the downed survivor and immediately find a new chase.
The devs obviously took the above into consideration when making final decisions on the perks caveats. I think the cooldown is pretty fair. If you’re regularly downing again within the cool down period then you’re already doing a damn good job as killer anyway and probably winning.
Pop is 25% regression every single time, works on all downs, has no cooldown and lets you pick and chose which gen gets regressed.
In order to beat that you need to regress not 1, not 2, not even 3 but 4 gens with Surge.
The direct regression is negligible. The value is pretty much only in the time save aspect, which means it's effect is suited for a snowballing playstyle where you need to jump from target to target non-stop and thus don't have time to kick gens.
However the cooldown and basic attack requirement both are awful for snowball Killers, which usually use special attacks to down and by definition are trying to get downs in quick succession.
Basically the conditions actively work against the type of Killer that benefits from the effect. Which is why even the Killers that SHOULD really like Surge based off the payoff, instead use PGTW because the perk just doesn't trigger when they want it to.
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@ImagineUcareForPips said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1521018#Comment_1521018
Uhm, you can't drop and pick up a survivor unlimited times. He will wiggle off for free.
I know you can't do it forever but you can still do it more than what the perk is balanced for and the snowball potential if it had no cooldown is stupid good.
The perk is balanced because the gens aren't already blocked when the perk is triggered, so the Survivors have the ability to play around it depending on what they are trying to accomplish. Removal of the cooldown prevents this after the first use.
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@RockoRango said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1521018#Comment_1521018
I would remove the cool down, and give it a condition: it deactivates indefinitely after using it once, but reactivates after hooking a survivor.
But yeah, Surge doesn’t need a cool down because the only way it can affect a generator is if it’s not regressing already.
Chained uses are a part of the problem. Not just repeated uses on the same Survivor
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
I agree its silly for it to have a cool down. Same with Thrilling Tremors
While I can see an argument against the magnitude. Thrilling Tremors is one of the perks that DOES need a cooldown.
Picking up a Survivor is something that can be done repeatedly even on just a single Survivor. And being able to chain uses of the perk to permanently prevent gen progression is a bit TOO effective, since without a cooldown there is no window to hop on a gen, and the perk is only balanced because it has that weakness.
I can understand a LOWER cooldown, but not NO cooldown.
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@Zeus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1520860#Comment_1520860
Zanshin tactics? Why would it be overpowered without a cooldown?
Because then you could see pallet aura's at all times.
We can't have that now can we.