NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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To limit their ability to be applied far more easily than intended and to limit ambiguity in some cases.
For example, if Dark Devotion didn't have a basic attack requirement then there would be ambiguity with cases such as: The Obsession hitting a trap, Grabs, Being broken by vile purge, being downed by deep wounds, disarming a trapper trap with the bloody coil addon, the obsession using the For The People perk ect.
Additionally, things such as Plagues vile/corrupt purge, Legions Frenzy, Huntress hatchets ect all have a much easier time hitting Survivors, which causes balance issues with perks like 3rd seal, remember me, sloppy butcher (well not for plague) and most importantly the exposed status effect.
And then some perks are basic attack perks because they are directly interacting with the properties of the basic attack itself. In this case that means Unrelenting, Mad grit and STBFL.
The only perks I can think of that don't have ANY of these issues are Surge and Knockout. Both of which have minor effects and trigger on a down, which is unambiguous.
Yes I know ambiguity has other possible solutions, such as Forced Penance using protection hit requirements instead of basic attack requirements. But they had to do SOMETHING and a basic attack requirement is one such solution.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660822#Comment_660822
The most recent numbers (11/2019) have the average kill rate at red ranks at right about your desired 2.7k. There's no exact number, but judging from the graph the kill rate definitely looks like right around ~68% (2.7k) at red ranks. The people wanting killers to be buffed are generally going off of their anecdotal experiences rather than the available data for the broader game population.
Also, to reply to your stance on this more broadly, I see where you're coming from and I think it's as good a definition as any to say that a win for survivors is to escape and a win for the killer is to kill the survivors. You have to admit there's a lot of ambiguity there, though. Let's say you're in a four-man SWF and you sacrifice yourself to save your three buddies. Did you lose because you died or did you win because your team collectively prevented the killer from achieving their goal? Similarly, let's take the vanilla example of a killer getting a 2k. Is that considered a draw? Or would consider it a win because you still did accomplish your objective of killing survivors? Maybe it's even a loss because you didn't kill all of the survivors?
I don't think there is a "correct" answer because the game doesn't comment on these nuances. So, it's natural that some players will turn to pips, some will turn to BPs, some will turn to "playing well" or "having fun", etc. I think the only things that most everyone would agree on are that a 4k is a win for the killer and a 0k is a win for the survivors.
At the very least, the Survivor wincon is very unambiguous. It clearly states you must escape. And unlike with Kills, there is no degrees of having escaped, you either did or you didn't.
As for the numbers, I would like to point out that the comment you are replying to is older than the stats you are referencing. I currently think the game is in a far more balanced state with the Killers in need of buffs now being in the minority.
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Outside of specific builds I find it too risky.
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@Corrupted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662060#Comment_662060
You're not quite getting it and your analogy is off. The idea of telling survivors "you survive then you win." Even if they did bad is like saying, in a real life scenario "If you graduate then you win" But they had all D's and nearly flunked. Like sure, the person graduated or survived but what on earth is the point if you nearly failed in the process or did poorly? You will find very little if any progress.
Sure, life will never hand you a win but that isn't the point. The people who do well or contribute a great deal will always be far more likely to do better and progress accordingly in a game or life which is ultimately the point. The guy who just "survived" is barely making ends meet and will find little progress meanwhile the other guy who does well is far more likely to progress and proceed.
NOTHING is promised in life but the people who do better and work harder are far more likely to succeed or progress opposed to those who do bare minimum or "just survive." which you aren't getting. The mentality you have going into something plays a big role and thinking "as long as I survive even if I do bad is okay." "Graduating is all that matters even if I literally have all D's." Is very unhealthy and will ultimately get you no where. Hell, with that mentality you likely won't have the opportunity to get into Harvard or any great school to begin with. You're half assing in a sense and when is that ever good? Once again, this is common sense and adds up but whatever you say, to each their own. Just wanted to clarify.
The thing about a win condition is that it's something you optimize in order to become as consistent as possible at it.
A low skill cheese strategy can work sometimes. But a high skill strategy is far more likely to.
In your example, a student trying to scrape by with a D has a high risk of failing if they mess up towards the end, since they have no margin of error.
Meanwhile a straight A student is almost immune to failing the class.
So if both students went to school using their strategies 1000 times, the D student would often fail while the A student would pass every time.
Now the thing about school is that it's singleplayer or at most it's cooperative. We are discussing a competitive game meanwhile. So a closer analogy is not getting a grade above an arbitrary line, but rather getting a grade that is above an opponent.
Now you definitely want to work as hard as possible, because if your strategy isn't the optimal one then an opponent that IS using an optimal strategy will beat you.
So applying this to DBD. If you play incredibly selfishly and go for the hatch every game, you will die a lot. Hatch plays are very risky, even moreso since there is a good chance you will be caught first.
So while you might win a few games, your winrate won't be good.
Meanwhile a player gen rushing and looping properly will escape far more consistently since their strategy has a lower chance of failure.
Even if they get super unlucky occasionally. Their superior strategy and execution can make up for it allowing them to win where they would otherwise die.
So yeah, Surviving as a win condition does incentivise proper play. Because playing immersed all game isn't a good strategy for Surviving.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1478578#Comment_1478578
If you can't reliably get close enough to stalk and then go for a hit, then the camera becomes useless.
From using this build I've found that bloodlust kicks in either just before I hit someone or as I reach them in a loop.
Don't get me wrong, it's still gimmicky as hell. But it made an otherwise useless perk somewhat helpful.
Most of my mark downs in general happen while still in stealth.
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Meh. The best way to use the camera is to down them from stealth. Using beast of pray takes too long anyways.
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I'd honestly recommend using Pharmacy.
It's not the best perk for pipping, but it should help you stockpile green medkits.
I know it's not the best solution but it's a workaround with no RNG.
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Flat TR changes go before % ones btw.
This is why rabbits foot can't give you 0 TR as Myers
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4k = winning
But winning doesn't necessarily mean you had fun nor does it mean you had a satisfying experience.
Winning just means you successfully reached a predefined gamestate where the gamestate achieved is the one the game has told you to attempt to accomplish.
In particular the game states your goal of Killing the Survivors in the tutorial.
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If they have the skills to back it up then is it REALLY cocky?
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Literally just read the in game wincons. That. Because winning is winning
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It took them 2 whole minutes to complete 2 gens? That's plenty of time.
Also I'd LOVE for this game to become deathguarden 2. That game was awesome.
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W.
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@Clockso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1473177#Comment_1473177
it's just that i can't buff babysitter without making it too similar to borrowed time, the purpose of babysitter is to unhook them safely and what better way to do it without giving them endurance? hiding scratch marks and pools of blood isn't gonna help against a facecamping legion in the basement, however they might slug them and thats where babysitter shines instead of bt, oh and i'm not sure if i worded breakout poorly but the 33% wiggle drop is for the carried survivor not for you since the killer will usually give up and drop the survivor instead of letting them wiggle out.
Just use magnitude.
The perk isn't anti-camp it's anti-tunnel.
A face camping bubba face won't care but a Spirit that insta-phases back to the hook certainly will. You can't tunnel a Survivor you can't find.
If 8 seconds isn't enough for it to fulfill this function then try 30 or try giving it an iron will effect or maybe have it give a minor (7%) haste status. Maybe even give the haste effect to both Survivors (you and the unhooked) so it becomes better for the "come chase me instead" function.
So many ways to make the perk better as an unhook anti-tunnel perk, you don't need to make it do something entirely different. Especially because the effect overlaps with soul guard anyways.
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@Clockso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1472165#Comment_1472165
The reason why they are so "random" is because i'm not the one who made the perks name/logo in the first place, i have to stick to something related to the perk's name and characterization, like for example when bhvr added freddy his power had to be something sleep-related, they can't just add the character then give him a chainsaw or something, they have to stick to the idea, anyways you're saying that people won't use babysitter cuz that's not the point of the perk right? well the current point of the perk is too niche to even be considered worth taking, it's just a way worse borrowed time. so it needed a secondary function, this same argument had to go with breakout, i can't just increase the wiggle speed, that would be borderline broken, so i had to buff it in a way that affects wiggling cuz that's the perk's name and characterization, and as for WGLF i wanted to make it an exact equivalent to bbq & chili, with bbq you gain more bps and you see survivors aura when hooking right? so when the killer hooks someone you see their aura with wglf, the reason why it's not infinite like kindred is because it grants you bonus bloodpoints so the aura reveal is just a secondary function, like a mini-kindred with bonus bps
You don't use BP bonuses as a balancing factor. That's why WGLF is the 2nd worst perk in the game right now (1st is no mither).
But anyways, the issue isn't that you are adding additional effects. But that those additional effects have nothing to do with the primary effect.
Take your Any Means Necessary buff as a counter example. Seeing the aura of dropped pallets makes the ability to pick them up stronger.
But Babysitter is a perk designed to make the Survivor you unhook safer. Giving them endurance when you pick them up from the dying state doesn't make it better at that.
When improving a perk you're supposed to make it better at what it does.
Same issue applies to breakout. Your buff doesn't make it better at what it does. So someone bringing the perk for it's intended function won't benefit from the buff. So the buff ends up being irrelevant and better served on boil over or something.
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So many of these buffs are so random.
Like why is Babysitter getting a buff to Anti-Slug? It's not an anti-slug perk, that's not why you'd run it.
Same goes for breakout. Your giving a buff to when you are grabbed by this Killer but that's not what you use the perk for. The perk is for breaking other Survivors out.
Also your WHLF buff is objectively worse than Kindred
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Legion could use a doctor style rework. Maybe pig too.
Clown could use an overhaul.
Most other Killers just need straight buffs or maybe an addon or 2 made basekit.
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Also Myers lunge has the same cooldown as normal.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470873#Comment_1470873
“They aren't.”
They are.
“For example, what exactly would STBFL do on Legion's frenzy? Would it somehow make the cooldown even faster? The answer really doesn't matter, because the point is that these perks are designed around the numbers in the basic attacks they are effecting. So if you have them apply to non-basic attacks then you get balance problems sometimes.”
The only balance problem I’ve ever seen out of STBFL in regards to basic attacks is that Demogorgon can completely ignore its downside thanks to Shred not being considered a basic attack, and that has nothing to do with the numbers.
“Taking Pigs ambush in particular, the extreme length of the lunge that's normally balanced out with the extended cooldown makes unrelenting a problem.”
Pig literally has two addons that reduce the missed dash cooldown. If these aren’t a problem, why is Unrelenting?
“But you can't have something work with some basic attack effects and not others without making the entire system super confusing, so the on-hit effects were removed making it consistent with the cooldown interaction.”
It’s really not that confusing. You know what’s more confusing? Having all these attacks that are literally just normal M1 lunges with modifications towards a stat here and there not considered a normal M1 lunge.
“Myers meanwhile doesn't have ANY of these issues. The instant down is through the status effect not the attack”
- It used to be through the attack before the Exposed status effect was invented, and even if it were, why does that matter? Literally, why does it matter? It accomplishes the exact same effect. The only difference is where the coding gets its instadown info from.
- Even ignoring the fact that this is all hokey, you... do realize that Myers’s lunge has a different missed attack cooldown than normal lunges, right? So your whole “different numbers” argument is thrown out the window, at least for Unrelenting.
"Pig literally has two addons that reduce the missed dash cooldown. If these aren’t a problem, why is Unrelenting?"
Simple. The numbers.
The addons have less of an impact on the cooldown than Unrelenting does. The same reason applies to demogorgon btw.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470707#Comment_1470707
I dunno man, those differences seem pretty damn trivial to me.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470766#Comment_1470766
Myers and Ghostface want to:
Know your location
They aren't.
Think about the unrelenting and STBFL perks. If hypothetically they applied to non-basic attacks the math on those would work out differently compared to basic attacks because they would be using different source numbers.
For example, what exactly would STBFL do on Legion's frenzy? Would it somehow make the cooldown even faster? The answer really doesn't matter, because the point is that these perks are designed around the numbers in the basic attacks they are effecting. So if you have them apply to non-basic attacks then you get balance problems sometimes.
Taking Pigs ambush in particular, the extreme length of the lunge that's normally balanced out with the extended cooldown makes unrelenting a problem. This is why the perk didn't work at all even when the attack DID trigger on hit effects. But you can't have something work with some basic attack effects and not others without making the entire system super confusing, so the on-hit effects were removed making it consistent with the cooldown interaction.
Myers meanwhile doesn't have ANY of these issues. The instant down is through the status effect not the attack
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Not quite. Pig's ambush also has different missed cooldown properties, a special charge property, a different audio que, terror radius interaction ect.
@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
The devs have a skewered idea of what does and doesn’t count as a basic attack.
Pig dash: Literally just a longer version of a normal lunge, doesn’t count.
Feral Frenzy: Literally just a basic attack that inflicts Deep Wound, doesn’t count.
Oni Demon Strike: Literally just an instadown with slightly longer range, doesn’t count.
Oni basic attack in Blood Fury: LITERALLY JUST A BASIC ATTACK, doesn’t count.
Frenzy also has no successful cooldown, can't down and activates KI. Several special properties beyond simply an on-hit effect
Demon Strike controls completely differently from a regular basic attack, has a different hitbox, can hit several Survivors at the same time and can break pallets/walls. Again, several non-trivial differences
I think the fury basic attack has a different hitbox too?
If you take Myers instead, his only difference is lunge duration. Something that used to not be standardized anyways. The instant down is from the exposed status effect not from a special property of the attack itself.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470646#Comment_1470646
Same can be said with wraith.
If wraith was visible then his power would indeed just be super speed yes.
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@handfulofrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470642#Comment_1470642
However, I've seen it argued that the reason Hag starts with all of her traps is because her traps don't directly cause damage/stall a survivor. Trapper's bear traps do.
Even if he started with all of his traps he'd still have several extremely significant downsides compared to other trap Killers.
His traps take longer to place, take longer to reset and must be manually picked up in order to move them.
Additionally he must be closer to the Survivor for it to be effective compared to hag beyond the injury.
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Simple. Because her power is information denial. Not having a que is the whole point.
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Run for 2 seconds and then tap sprint to not use Sprint burst.
This is a Sprint burst sidegrade not a nerf.
Not complaining. Just noting this because I don't think most people noticed this use case.
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@mithrios said:
Dead hard - exhaustion perk
Decisive strike - Anti tunneling perk
Unbreakable - Anti slugging perk
Borrowed time - Anti camper perk
purple medikit
Honestly Lithe is better.
Dead Hard fails too often.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1467483#Comment_1467483
nice to see you Mexican food of the Radioactive variety, how are you
Mostly wondering how exactly you are ending careers through logic when internet posting isn't even a career and facts don't tend to make anyone stop anyways
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@Frareid88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1467434#Comment_1467434
Take a wild guess.
Awful player
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@Khakuate said:
Gens are a problem yes, but if we want to fix gens we should fix camping and tunneling too.
Btw you could take a better example, tru3 did a really big mistake at early game (typical of him) and then wonders why gen pop like crazy
"but if we want to fix gens we should fix camping and tunneling too."
<rant>
Ok, ######### this mentality. If there is a problem that needs to be solved, then there is a problem that needs to be solved. Solving one problem is not a pre-requisite for solving another unless they are literally directly linked to each other, which gen rush and tunneling are not.
This kind of reasoning naturally leads into the claim (which I know you haven't made but) "Before we solve X problem we need to solve Y problem". But then because then the opposite claim gets made and instead of moving onto solutions everyone yells at each other about problems.
If gen rush is a problem then gen rush should be solved. Period.
If tunneling is a problem then tunneling should be solved. Period.
Solving gen rush does not suddenly mean we need to fix tunneling. We either already needed to solve it anwyays, or we still don't have to. They are casually linked. And fixing tunneling is not a prerequisite for fixing gen rush. A world with tunneling and not gen rush is still better than a world with both. Same goes for keys and mori's, you remove both because they both should be removed on their own merits, not because you removed the other and want to appease the karmatic balance of the universe or something.
Camping isn't quite the same story since gen rush is the counter to camping, but even then that's only a problem for specific gen rush solutions. So until you've moved onto proposing solutions there is no reason to bring up camping in a gen rush thread.
Just take the problems one at a time, and don't use other problems as an excuse to not solve the other ones.
</rant>
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@BigTimeGamer said:
People who save sprint burst and walk all game are part of the reason why rank is meaningless
hiding and surviving =/= high skill
Rank in general is a measurement of effectiveness. Not skill
A high skill low reward strategy shouldn't rank you up as much as a low skill high reward strategy, simply because the low skill strategy is more effective and overcomplicating things is a sign of a worse player even if it technically takes more skill.
Tldr: If hiding is an effective strategy then it should rightfully rank up the Survivor. It doesn't matter if the strategy is hard or not, what matters is if the strategy gets results.
If you don't rank up the Survivor then they will never be matched with Killers that are better at tracking after all. You'd just be continuing to not challenge them.
Imagine if league refused to rank you up because you were playing Darius. Or because you won the game through a backdoor. That would be ridiculous.
Saying Survivors shouldn't rank up because the strategy they were using revolved around stealth is just as ridiculous.
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While a new item in general would be cool. I would not support THIS new item.
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@RedditUser69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/173589/solidarity-buff
Solidarity should heal 100% of what you heal up to 50%. Currently if you fully heal someone you will only get 50% of your bar. They should make it so your healing is 1 for 1 up to 50%. It should also notify survivors that you have solidarity when both of you are injured to avoid fighting over who gets to head who.
That would be a nerf.
Even without considering multiple Survivors, that's a nerf.
Currently the perk has a Synergy with Autodidact, since you can get greater than 50% of yourself healed off a single Survivor the first time you heal them (negative skill checks don't reduce heal progress while positive skill checks do advance it).
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@RedditUser69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1464203#Comment_1464203
I disagree. The red stain plays a huge part in mind games and taking it away for one perk slot every single chase is too good.
The part it plays in mindgames is all revolved around not showing it.
The only advantage the perk has over just moonwalking every time you round a corner is that you can keep looking. If you've ever played as Ghostface you'd know that being in shroud doesn't have a major impact on your ability to catch Survivors compared to just using moonwalks in the first place.
Even if the perk was unconditional mid-chase undetectable it's still worse than the perks Killers actually use generally.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1463642#Comment_1463642
I actually only use one second chance as survivor and that's DH, because i'm trash at loops sometimes. My other perks are: "Autodidact", " Bond" and "Inner Strength". :D
DH ends up bugging out far too often for me.
Autodidact, Solidarity, Blood Pact and Spine Chill
Blood pact is more for the 2 way info than for the haste. Not that the haste doesn't help, I've been saved by it a small handful of times. But I'm not running it for that.
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@RedditUser69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1464138#Comment_1464138
I think that would be too strong, honestly.
Your idea is solid OP. I think it could be improved slightly by buffing the numbers but otherwise A+
Too strong? Really?
Look, the Undetectable status is good, but the timing for the perk is awful, so it pretty much cancels out.
The perk is only useful for 1 of 3 things:
* No red stain - Which just makes mindgames slightly easier. You can already do a red glow mindgame to get the benefits perkless with a bit more effort
* Aura reading immunity - Which is only relevant for like 3 perks while in a chase
* Catching other Survivors not in the chase off guard - The window after leaving the first Survivor is too short for this to be practical
So it has 3 uses all of which are bad. Having it be always active would be completely fine.
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Neither. Gen rush happens without camping and camping is a strategy done to counter hyper-altruism, not gen rush.
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Comradere should also do that
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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1463851#Comment_1463851
I am not a dev and do not have an answer there, but you can easily tell your team before the game if you running perks, I do it all the time, and I have never seen another survivor do it aside from me.
Threads like this make it obvious, hardly anyone ever talks before a match. At most you get a "glhf" or "I need exit gate for daily" but RARELY ever see "k guys Im running deliverance"
in fact, I have NEVER seen it.
I do that too. But yeah I also never see anyone else doing it.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462210#Comment_1462210
Sorry. I'll make it 16 to be in line with Myers
For the record this is sarcasm.
Just because there is a standard terror radius does not mean every Killer must use the standard terror radius.
There are Killers that already have been made with non-standard terror radius's and this is just one more of those.
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@ Antares2332 said:
It is not possible for a killer to be 4.6m/s with a terror radius of 24m.
Sorry. I'll make it 16 to be in line with Myers
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462055#Comment_1462055
But we know absolutely nothing about how they tested this system. Only that it's apparently "very accurate".
The balancing team has proven many times over that what they consider to be fun and balanced is very far removed from reality. So hearing that they've now designed a new match making system, I'm inherently skeptical.
We'll just have to see over time.
If the claim was "the mmr system is predicing balanced results", then being suspicious would make sense for that reason.
However, the claim "our system can accurately predict the outcome of a match" is not a subjective claim. No matter what their views on balance are, a prediction coming true still means the exact same thing
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@Khakuate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462043#Comment_1462043
guess that's you're region, Im rn playing on PC, but when I used to play on ps4, if you didn't had DS is basically a big sign above your head saying "tunnel me"
The trick is that Killers play around DS. So you end up getting slugged because the Killer doesn't actually know if you have the perk or not.
And if they aren't picking you up then you can just run a perk other than DS and effectively have 5 perks.
One of my perks is also blood pact (healing build remember) so there's always going to be an obsession to make sure the Killer is on guard.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1462006#Comment_1462006
Considering this is also the same team that said they were, "Fine with how Billy was performing", I'd take any claim they make with a dozen bags of salt.
Fact claims and opinion claims shouldn't be evaluated the same, and it's rare for someone, especially in an official announcement, to outright lie. Mislead? Maybe. Be wrong? Sometimes, not with something like this, but sometimes. But lie? Almost never.
A claim like "40% of Survivors die" can be taken at face value. This claim about predicting match outcomes is inline with a claim like this.
The kinds of claims you should be taking with salt are interpretations OF data. Such as "Therefor the hatch is OP" or "billy thus needs a nerf" or whtaever. Not the data being interpreted.
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@Khakuate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1461950#Comment_1461950
yet killer main asks why survivor mains always bring decisive.
Just try a build without decisive, and guess what? got tunneled :) fun experience
Just drop the clown card already
I run healing builds mostly with no DS. I don't generally have a problem with being tunneled.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Oh boy.
*passes the popcorn
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1461471#Comment_1461471
Not possible with a Legion without addons.
If you doubt this, search me please a video on YouTube - or any other plattform - and show me a Legion without addons, who had did this to a, at least normal survivor group.
It doesn't have to be even experts, just also not totally newbies.
In a oridnary chase, you had the chance to hit a survivor 2 times. If it was a total potato 3 times. After that they were gone, if they again not were bloody beginners.
The Legion to this time was a killer with a very short action window, if we count in the frenzy duration to this time and the abilities of the survivors to avoid being hit by whatever.
Also to get someone with 3 hits down was not possible as a Legion without addons. If you see that in a video -> look at the endscreen and you will see there addons. I promise.
Of course 3 Frenzy's was enough to down you. Each Frenzy removes 10 seconds and there is a total of 30, so 4 hits would down counting the initial hit that applied DW in the first place.
It wasn't particularly fast, but it was a fixed time. This is why the idea of Legion being uncounterable was compatible with the idea of Legion being underpowered. He downs you in a fixed amount of time, about 30 seconds-ish.
Now that's obviously too long to avoid being gen rushed. Which is why he's considered underpowered. But it's juuuuust fast enough for people to do it anyways and piss off the Survivors every time.
Throwing addons into the mix isn't what made the strategy possible. The addons just make the strategy go from "consistently mediocre" to "consistently really good". Because franks mixtape easily cuts over 10 seconds off the time to down.
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Also while thrilling tremors may not be a slowdown perk by itself. I have slotted it in a few builds where it ends up working for slowdown.
Killers like Legion and Doctor in particular can get a lot of value out of thrilling tremors from a slowdown PoV.
This is better you can get them mending or snapping out of it, and then pick someone up in the mean time. This locks them off the gen they would otherwise want to go back to once their channel is done. Worst case scenario, you get info.
I also have a Ghostface build that pairs thrilling with forced Penance. While they are broken they can't heal. But as Ghostface I can down injured Survivors incredibly fast. So if they hop on a gen I get a free down using the info from thrilling. And if they don't then they can't really do anything for the 16 seconds.
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@slim0b said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1460838#Comment_1460838
Every direction gen slowdown is mentioned in the spoiler.
And I'm sorry but Huntress Lullaby isn't even one considering it relies on the survivor's skill and has absolutely nothing to do with you. If you're in the red ranks this only works with doctor.
As for the gen tracking perks, I understand how useful they are since they guide your map pressure, but if you're in a chase while these info perks keep popping on and off you're losing lots of hook pressure by abandoning at and moving over to the gen. And again, most of the time that gen will be complete by the time you reach there
Your list had neither corrupt intervention nor PGTW
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@TheCsoliday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1459557#Comment_1459557
Not really, if the killer is within a certain amount of meters close to you, the hooked persons health shouldn’t go down. So, the killer can still facecamp, he can be touching the survivor if he wanted to, it’s just going to give survivors more time to do things. It hurts the killer for using this “strategy” but helps survivors in a way of having more time due to the unfairness of facecamping!
Yes really. Because when a Survivor is going for an unhook the Killer needs to be there in order to stop it. And this means the timer pauses when the Killer is there. So the Survivor can just wait near the hook, or alternatively wait just outside the Survivor is there failsafe check, until the Killer is forced to leave even if he knows there is a Survivor there.
Preventing unnecessary face-camping is fine. However the reason we can't simply prevent camping in general is because it needs to work in the scenarios where it makes sense to do so.
In other words, anything done to stop facecamping cannot do so universally without causing more problems than it solves.