NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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No mither makes your game harder.
WGLF is the next worst, it does LITERALLY nothing. And not in the hyperbolic sense of the word.
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
This is not an Esport game, stop trying to make it one.
This is the LEAST applicable design thread you can make that statement on.
The video is literally all about the subjective non-balance portion of the Killer designs.
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@TTVfbYTigTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1435846#Comment_1435846
You know dead hard has been in the largely untouched for FOUR YEARS? You know this whole complaining about “second chance” perks has ramped up and up recently? Why?
Killers act like there’s no counter to DS, dead hard, etc. Which is ridiculous
This isn't recent in the slightest. And I already covered why they are complained about so much.
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@darwinsbrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1436280#Comment_1436280
Your surprise VS expectation theory is laughable. Killers know when to expect second chance perks. It shouldn't come as a surprise to get hit with DS, you see there is an obsession. And people don't mind devour hope because its impressive? To get 3 hooks? Seems like BS to me, every time. And this idea that killers earn their insta downs is a joke. I know when a Ghost Face exposes me from looking at me for a few seconds with no terror radius hardly feels earned. Yes its a horror game and I'm not suggesting we get rid of insta downs, though a lot of times it does seem jnfair. Just saying that survivors start out with the expectation of being able to take a certain number of hits in a game. Sort of like lives. Killers gave a good number of ways to take some those away. Survivors have a few ways to get some back. There is counter play to all of them. Creates a little fairness and balance.
If you've ever heard of the rested bonus in WoW you'd know this is a real thing.
World of Warcraft used to have an exp penalty if you played the game too long. Players hated this, so the devs removed it.
In it's place, players would get bonus exp after not playing the game for awhile, and to compensate for this the base exp costs were increased. The same players liked this system much better.
However, the actual numbers were identical before and after the change. The only difference is that the initial exp was labeled as a bonus instead of the later exp being listed as a penalty. Solely by changing the labels the players changed their opinion on the mechanic.
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@darwinsbrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1436280#Comment_1436280
Your surprise VS expectation theory is laughable. Killers know when to expect second chance perks. It shouldn't come as a surprise to get hit with DS, you see there is an obsession. And people don't mind devour hope because its impressive? To get 3 hooks? Seems like BS to me, every time. And this idea that killers earn their insta downs is a joke. I know when a Ghost Face exposes me from looking at me for a few seconds with no terror radius hardly feels earned. Yes its a horror game and I'm not suggesting we get rid of insta downs, though a lot of times it does seem jnfair. Just saying that survivors start out with the expectation of being able to take a certain number of hits in a game. Sort of like lives. Killers gave a good number of ways to take some those away. Survivors have a few ways to get some back. There is counter play to all of them. Creates a little fairness and balance.
Ok maybe I should clarify a bit, because psychology is tricky like that.
Obviously, Killers know perks like BT and DS exist and are used. However that doesn't mean an expectation is created, at least not in the context of psychology (not to be confused with the context of strategy).
Basically, typically when the Killer hits a Survivor the Killer is rewarded and the Survivor is punished. The games dynamics all reinforce the idea that the Killer wants to hit Survivors while the Survivors want to not get hit and there are rewards associated with all of this through both the progression system, animations ect.
Now with exposed, this dynamic is upheld, and the specifics are explicitly telegraphed. There is an "oh ######### I'm exposed" moment before any instant downing events occur. The important thing is that it's the telegraph that builds the expectation. You as an exposed Survivor look different than you as a non-exposed Survivor from your own PoV simply because of the icon and sound effect. In the case of MYC, if the perk didn't inform you that you were exposed then I wouldn't say that the perk built an expectation, even if you KNOW the perk is effecting you based of prior activation, the perk still wouldn't have actually built an expectation.
A Survivor on the ground with DS looks identical to a Survivor on the ground without DS, and regardless of any perks involved the game has trained me to anticipate a hook after picking up a Survivor. And in the case of endurance it's the same deal, injured Survivors with endurance look identical to injured Survivors without endurance and the game has trained me to expect a reward after hitting a Survivor.
Contrast BT in the end game to Adrenaline in an unhook scenario. Survivor is on the hook:
- BT: Survivor is unhooked. Killer hits the Survivor. Killers hit is negated and the Killer is punished
- Adrenaline: Survivor is unhooked. Adrenaline heals the Survivor. Killer hits the Survivor. Killers hit goes through and the Killer is rewarded
Strategically speaking the Adrenaline scenario is strictly worse for the Killer. The Survivor has an extra speed boost and doesn't have deep wounds. However, at no point is the Killer actually punished in the Adrenaline scenario, because Adrenaline's payoff is before the Killer hits them while BT's payoff is WHEN the Killer hits them.
It doesn't matter if the Killer consciously knows that the Survivor has BT or not. Seeing a Survivor go from injured to still injured is still going to feel worse than seeing a Survivor go from healthy to injured. Like I said psychology is funny that way. It's all a matter of presentation.
Now there is ALSO the balance angle. But the expectation thing has less to do with what the Killer knows and more how the information is presented. If the endurance gave the Survivor a glowing shield around them that got broken by the Killers attack it would probably feel way less frustrating even if technically nothing's actually changed.
Also I'm not sure why you are bringing up GF with the impressive thing on DH. I made it pretty clear that it only applied to Devour Hope (and 3 unhooks under specific conditions while also defending a totem AND also getting a down afterwards because expose does nothing until you hit someone is a lot more work than 3 hooks, if you don't believe me then try running Devour Hope and Lullaby and compare your average stacks) and Mettle of Man as a justification for why they aren't frustrating despite their lack of a telegraph. Killer powers with instant downs are in general telegraphed, either by status effects in the case of Ghostface and Myers or a Killer specific sound effect in the case of Bubba, Billy or Oni.
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Oh yeah, another thing to look at (relating to the stacking thing) is how Expose generates value compared to Enduring.
Expose fulfills the same niche as anti-heal perks and STBFL within a build. Specifically these perks make the Killer less vulnerable to healthy Survivors.
Anti-heal perks do this by ensuring Survivors stay injured longer
STBFL does this by decreasing the relative distance healthy Survivors gain on hit
and Expose perks do this by treating healthy Survivors as injured for the purposes of basic attacks
That is to say, Expose is the counter to healing, if a Survivor never heals then Expose will never get value out of that Survivor nor will Anti-heal perks. STBFL will still get value because it's more versatile than that, but it will still lose SOME value.
And Survivors are absolutely capable of not healing. They can do gens, rescue teammates and escape just fine while injured the whole game, denying all instant down perks and powers their value by shear redundancy.
However, Enduring, and it's niche is different. Enduring perks, healing perks and DS serve to devalue attacks in general.
Enduring by negating a hit
DS by negating the long term consequences of a hit
and healing perks by being healthy more often
While Survivors can simply not heal in order to deny expose value, a Killer can't just not attack Survivors to deny enduring value. The Killer NEEDS to hit Survivors in order to accomplish his objective and time spent not hitting Survivors is always time that could be better spent.
What this means is that Survivors can play in a way that completely negates the entire idea of expose perks. No matter what expose perk you can think of I can counter it as Survivor by not healing and playing accordingly.
However as Killer I cannot just use a different playstyle to ignore the idea behind tanking perks. Sooner or later I have to hit Survivors. So the best I can do is play around the specific perk conditions instead, which is much more limiting.
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Any questions?
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As far as balance goes. Instant down powers are balanced by the design of the Killer. Usually they are harder to get than the regular down, requiring a charge time or a build up of some kind, and instant downs heavily effect the Killers power budget. Notice how Oni is the only Killer with a basekit instant down that also has strong anti-loop. That isn't a coincidence. Addons that do allow a Killer too easy access to their instant down also tend to be the most problematic balance wise, this is why instasaw billy is considered overpowered, because his instant down should be harder to land than his M1, and with basekit it is, with instasaw not so much.
The instant down addons (of which there are currently 3) ARE indeed overpowered because they lack the normal checks and balances that powers and perks (more on those) have.
As for perks, they need to be looked at individually. Currently there are 6 expose perks available to the Killer:
- Devour Hope
- NOED
- Rancor
- Make your choice
- Haunted Grounds
- Iron Maiden
There are a few things to note here:
#1 is that all of these perks are triggered by a Survivor action. 2 of them from unhooks, 2 of them from completing the final gen and 2 from misc actions.
Now, with the exception of Devour Hope and NOED (more on that in a sec) these perks effects are either telegraphed or are completely avoidable. Cleansing totems is optional, rancor gives aura reading, MYC is revealed after the first unhook and iron maiden is revealed after you first exit a locker.
Now, Survivors have 3 Endurance Perks:
- Borrowed Time
- Mettle of Man
- Soul Guard
Borrowed Time and Soul guard, in comparison to the Killer expose perks, are all triggered by Survivor actions. DS, Adrenaline, unbreakable and DH are all also triggered by Survivor actions. Mettle of man is the exception, with it being triggered by specific Killer actions, but more on that later.
Finally, there is also the matter of stacking. There is a few things about expose:
- Exposing an exposed Survivor does nothing
- Exposing an injured Survivor does nothing
- Hitting an exposed Survivor with M2 does nothing
Now if we just look at Endurance in isolation this is fine, you can't stack 2 different Endurance effects at the same instant and deep wounds makes it tricky to stack it will healing too. Other than the M2 thing Enduring has the same stacking prevention. However, Enduring isn't the only kind of second chance perk.
BT may not stack with MoM, but it DOES stack with DS, DH, Unbreakable ect, and the timing of the perks makes them unlikely to have stacking issues anyways. Whereas stacking Expose perks often has a lot of overlap making them anti-synergy where Survivor second chance perks have proper synergy.
So with the balance stuff out of the way, there is also an entirely different problem that some (not all) second chance perks have. Expectation and result disconnects.
Lets look at the actual effect of Enduring compared to Expose.
Expose:
- Survivor meets X condition (as established above)
- Survivor gains the exposed status effect
- Killer hits Survivor with a basic attack
- Killer gets payoff of a downed Survivor
Enduring:
- Survivor meets X condition
- Survivor gains the enduring status effect
- Killer hits Survivor
- Survivor gets payoff by tanking the hit and getting a speed boost
Now, while these lists look almost identical this is actually a problem. Here's why: When a Survivor is exposed they are informed that they are exposed. When the Survivor is hit by the Killer there is an expectation created by this for the Killer and the Survivor.
For the Killer hitting Survivors hurts them, and since they know their expose condition was met and they will be instant downed
For the Survivor getting hit is bad and they already know they have the exposed status effect and so they also expect to be downed
So there is no sudden frustration when they in fact get downed. Everyone knew in advance what would happen and the Killer being rewarded for hitting the Survivor would happen anyways.
Compare that with enduring:
For the Killer hitting Survivors still hurts them. Since in this context the Survivor would be injured the Killer has an expectation that the Survivor will be downed
For the Survivor however, they know they have the endurance status effect, so when the Killer hits them they know they won't go down. And they don't.
The game has built up an expectation for the Killer that they are about to be rewarded because that's what hitting Survivors does for you. But in this one case it's suddenly denied form you and you are punished instead. Unlike with exposed, the one being rewarded is given the telegraph instead of the one being punished. And that feels AWFUL.
DS does the exact same thing but just shifting the timing forwards a little bit. Adrenaline and Unbreakable don't have this issue at all and are probably only complained about at all because of their combination with DS.
Now, pop-quiz: What's the most hated expose perk in the game? Easy answer because it's NOED. So, why is NOED so frustrating to deal with? Hint, it's not because it downs you in one hit, Survivors get downed in one hit all the time without complaint while injured, just like Killers don't complain about taking 2 hits to down a healthy Survivor. It's the same problem as with Enduring.
When the Killer first gets NOED all Survivors become exposed. However unlike with other expose perks, the game doesn't actually TELL the Survivors that they are exposed. It creates the same expectation-outcome disconnect I mentioned earlier. The Survivor is healthy so they expect to tank a hit, and then they don't.
However there is another piece to this. Because Devour has the same issue, but people don't complain about Devour hope. Why is that? Because using Devour Hope is impressive. It takes 3 hooks and an extra down after the 3rd unhook, with a fast unhook negating a stack and camping isn't allowed AND you need to protect a totem the whole time. When a Survivor is eventually hit with devour hope it's not frustrating because the Killer had to put work in to earn the perk.
Neither DS, BT or even the other expose perks have that property of feeling hard earned by the other side, but you want to know another perk that DOES have that property? Mettle of man. When the Killer gets hit with MoM, while there is a moment of unpleasant surprise it is followed by being impressed instead of frustrated and for the exact same reason.
The same thing applies to gen grabs. And in the case of lockers and unhook grabs the Survivor understands that they deliberately put themselves in that situation and knew the risks, so once again there is no expectation-result disconnect to cause frustration.
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Medkit always
@TheRoyalOwl said:
Med-kits, I love to use pharmacy, which imo is a super underrated perk.
I use pharmacy as a farming perk. Not a perk to optimize my escape rate but to find green medkits for later.
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@KingFrost said:
Billy needed a nerf. People won't admit it, but he had both map mobility AND an insta-down. Let's compare to a killer who has similar abilities: Oni. Oni's got a lot of potential. He can move across the map at incredible speeds when his ability is available (7.82 m/s), and can insta-down survivors. But he has to earn his ability first, and doesn't have unlimited uses of his ability. Contrast to current Hillbilly who can, from the word go, traverse the map at speeds of 9.2 m/s with no cooldown, and then instadown a survivor, again with no cooldown. So not only was he faster than Oni, and is able to use his ability more frequently than Oni, but he also never had to earn his ability in the first place. Billy can chainsaw from generator to generator, one-shotting survivors with almost no downside.
Now, before you call me a dirty survivor main (I"m not. I main Pig, Doc, Pyramid Head, and Legion. I hope to add Spirit to my arsenal in time), I do think the devs went too far with their nerf. His cooldown is too slow, and he gains heat too fast. But the concept itself is fine, and probably healthy for the game. Especially with the coming changes of a pre-trial warmup. The numbers definitely need to be tweaked. And hopefully, they'll see that and make him gain less heat (Maybe no heat at all when not holding M2. Or very little heat). I think Billy can still be a fun, strong killer with the overheat mechanic, as long as the numbers are adjusted.
Oni's power also comes with the extremely important advantages of M1 instant downs and large anti-loop potential.
The first means that he can use his instant down in a lot more situations, because you don't need to go through a charge duration. This also means he's extremely effective at breaking pallets quickly.
The second is far more important and is due to his far greater agility due to his flick and his strafing. Onis power helps him down the Survivor even if the Survivor is already injured. Billy's power meanwhile, while it always has it's utility, doesn't hugely impact chases against already injured Survivors.
These are not trivial differences and if an instant down was enough to make a Killer good then legion and pre-buff plague would both be top tier.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
It's a good idea, but when it's a Hex, say NOED or DH, then survivors won't really choose to leave it standing. And most times, the killer won't really give you enough time to get back up unless they're afraid of DS or just slugging everyone.
Well that's a strategic choice the Survivor makes
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Basically the issue I brought up appears in the following perks:
DS: "Oh you went through the trouble of downing them? ######### you do it again, and also your stunned for 5 seconds."
DH: Its a reactive perk that gets used to correct a mistake. In fairness the perk CAN be used proactively and when it is the perk doesn't feel so bad. That is to say, using DH to make a play is fine, but using DH to correct a misplay feels awful as the Killer.
Adrenaline: Retroactively deletes your chase progress when used in a chase. Outside of a chase is fine.
Unbreakable: In the event of a 4 man slug this perk denies an anticipated insta-win. Without at least 3 slugged or hooked Survivors this isn't an issue and the perk is fine (psychologically speaking)
Deliverance: See above but with hooks
4%ing: same
Mettle of man: Simple "Oh you got a hit? Na just kidding". Offset by the difficulty to activate making it seem impressive rather than annoying, but still worth mentioning.
Soul guard/borrowed time: Same as MoM but without the feeling of being impressive making up for it
Sprint Burst: "Oh you got the jump on me? No you didn't". Used outside of the context of an ambush is fine.
The other exhaustion perks (head on, lithe, balanced landing) do not carry the same feeling of anticipation of reward prior to their activation, lithe in particular due to activating on a vault.
None of these "issues" are balance issues, although there are unrelated balance issues with a subset of these perks, the negative psychological effects is are not an example of a balance issue.
In the case of the Enduring effects, they can be solved with a simple nerf that causes Enduring to make the Survivor glow like they do now when struck with enduring but for the whole duration. That way the anticipated reward is not "downing the Survivor" but rather "breaking the Survivors shield".
In the case of borrowed time no further changes are needed, the perk is strong enough for a minor nerf like this to be fine. Mettle of man and soul guard may need a compensation buff. In the case of mettle of man that should be straightforward as the perk needs a buff anyways.
Solving the issue with the other perks is more complicated. Other than DS the perks moreso have the potential to be frustrating depending on when and how it's used rather than being an inherently frustrating perk. So nerfing it to be less frustrating isn't plausible without a full rework, which can only be fully justified in the case of DS.
Sprint burst can be mitigated by having it activate after sprinting continuously for 1 second instead of instantly. However similar changes to deliverance, Unbreakable ect wouldn't work.
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@rglarson13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1433158#Comment_1433158
Actually, I really like this idea for a killer perk.
The killer kicks up to 1/2/3 generators in a match, and if the survivors complete it within 300 seconds after being kicked it explodes at 99% and regress to 50%.
Don't like it? Just don't gen rush -- easy.
That was literally the most unsatisfying perk to play against I could think of. Do NOT use that as inspiration for a perk ffs.
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@DBD78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1425724#Comment_1425724
Pointless. If they buff Legion survivors will complain, and then they will have to nerf Legion.
No plz
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1433178#Comment_1433178
The Survivors using ds...
Weren't you talking about ds like your other comment?
No the other comment was talking about what would hypothetically give the same feeling as a second chance perk but as a Survivor instead of a Killer.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1433158#Comment_1433158
Slug them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
slug a gen?
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It's like if as a Survivor you finish a gen and instead of it poping it explodes damaging you a heath state and you have to do it all over again because ######### you.
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Because it's punishing you after establishing an expectation of reward.
Getting DSed is like if I held out an ice cream cone and then when you reach for instead of giving it to you I punch you in the face.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1433112#Comment_1433112
Not every killer should have map pressure
I see.
Carry on then
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@Ashwitherton said:
Yeah but at the cost of waiting for charges I dont want to have to wait plus a bit more movement speed isn't gonna help when the charge time can no longer be shortened
the bit of movement speed was nice, but the REAL buff was DOUBLING the max rampage duration.
You don't spam his saw often enough for the cooldown to be a legitimate limiting factor.
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What part is debatable
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@Speeddemonsaif said:
Ghostface comes outta nowhere. Like ghostface is crap hes like bootleg micheal myers well in dbd and plus when im survivor and get matched with and ghostface he never stalks.
Ghostface doesn't need to stalk you. His stealth power is the best ambushing ability in the game since you move at full speed while in stealth and have no delay before you can attack. The stalk is a useful extra ability on top of that, but isn't where his power comes from.
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Basekit change is really good. His addons are mostly meh but whatever.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1432232#Comment_1432232
The nerfs you are talking about are on 3 killers. None of the other killers were nerfed and in fact 1 killer nerf is still in PTB, so it may not even happen.
Major Survivor Nerfs that Affect all Survivors, not just a tiny few.
- Insta Heals
- Toolbox Nerfs
- Smaller Maps
- God Loops removed
- Gen speeds nerfed when multiple survivors are on the gen (Minor nerf)
Remember that the Devs stats show all killers getting around a 60% kill rate in November. So the the games already killer sided.
There, you are Killer-Biased. Do you even play survivor? (I really wish people would play both sides before commenting).
1 and 2 only effect people that use those items, not all Survivors in general. Plus toolbox's sabo function was buffed.
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Literally just leave.
If the Killer has NOED, then don't go for super risky saves, don't try and bully him, just leave. Not doing so is more likely to just get you killed than it is to actually stop them.
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@JimPickens said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1432218#Comment_1432218
Yeah you all the auras are different now? They also updated some of the maps.
And i feel like his add ons got a buff, the apex muffler i think is insane, the chain would be really good if they change to not work as a speed limiter when it's not going through a pallet, the ones that make him move faster if a flashlight is on him, they change up the gameplay way more than the very basic add ons he had before. I realize that more fun doesn't equal better but i personally like the direction his add ons take.
And again im not a Billy main so i can't really say but i know that when nurse got nerfed she maintained S tier in popular (pc) opinion. I guess the difference here's is that nurse didn't really lose anything whereas Billy seems to have completely lost a lot of his chainsaw tech but idk i have a feeling he'll maintain as one of the stronger killers if for no other reason than the people who play him are already very skilled
There are a few important differences between the Nurse nerf and the Billy nerf:
- Nurse's power goes on cooldown after it's used. Billy's power goes on cooldown BEFORE it's used
- Nurses cooldown has no impact on the power of any given blink. Billy's nerf drastically impacts the strength of the individual usages
- Nurses nerf only puts the power on cooldown for 4 seconds tops, and typically closer to less than a second. Billy's nerf puts his power on cooldown for at LEAST 15 seconds at a time.
Also while the apex muffler is cool, the yell ruins it since that part isn't silenced.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1431900#Comment_1431900
How can he get a 4m tr?
Addon shenanigins
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This thread be like:
OP - "Deathslinger has no TR"
People - "Psh, stop your hyperbole"
OP - "No plz I'm serious"
People - *loads gun*
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If it doesn't effect other people working on the generator then there is no point pretending it helps with discordance. I'd let it work for other Survivors on the same generator.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'd like to see it reworked in a different way. Even if you're broken after the first hit, the killer can still see that on the HUD. They could make it so that the killer can't see the broken status, but I don't like that solution. I don't think the HUD should ever lie, and I also feel like selectively making the HUD lie could cause weird edge case behavior with other things that cause Broken, like Deliverance or Plague's power. I'd expect a lot of bugs and general confusion around that.
I have a couple of thoughts about how you could update it, depending on what kind of a perk it's intended to be.
- If it's meant as a challenge for extremely competent survivors, add bonus in-game bloodpoints in all categories. This would make it pair really well with WGLF, another David perk, and give really skilled survivors an incentive to take it easy on killers. I know I'd gladly run this build when playing with lower rank teammates in a SWF.
- If it's meant as a high risk / high reward perk that's actually supposed to be functional, add a small movement speed buff (~3%). If a survivor is really confident in their looping ability this would have excellent synergy with perks like Resilience which also make you more effective while injured and also help you in a chase. If you make a mistake you'd be punished quickly, but you could be a menace if you looped well. With this slight movement speed boost I could imagine running No Mither, Resilience, Dead Hard, and Spine Chill/This Is Not Happening/Hope (hello 110% movement speed after the gates are powered!). I think that'd be a blast.
The Hud already lies through effects like diversion and red herring.
A simple fix for potential bugs would be to make it so it would hide ALL sources of broken, and thus as Killer if your broken effects aren't appearing to go through then you know the Survivor has NM.
As for the changes you are suggesting. A bloodpoint boost theoretically works, however it feels like a waste of a perk concept. Permanent extra movement speed is far more useful than a 2nd health state. You'd likely be able to infinite some Killers even with only 3%. Running in a straight line you'd extend every chase by slightly over 20% and more importantly in loops you'd be able to chain tiles that would otherwise be impossible to chain indefinitely, since unlike with exhaustion perks a permanent speed boost doesn't have a finite value in a chase.
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@IMhereRUN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1429893#Comment_1429893
The majority of people using NM are not using it for its ‘Unbreakable’ effect. Those that are using it for that reason are probably just running meme builds like “You can’t hook me”.
NM’s biggest strength is the hidden blood trails. This eliminates a vital tracking tool for the killer player, especially with synergies like Iron Will to capitalize on it. Even more so, the sounds in this game are a bit “off” we’ll say (trying to be nice :P), so the blood is a very useful tracking tool for stealthy players if the killer isn’t facing a Doctor or a killer using Stridor.
I’m not saying NM is Godly because a killer can’t track without a blood trail, nothing can be further from the truth. But it IS a big enough asset to a survivor to warrant a forever ‘Broken’ status.
3 things.
- I play Killer a lot. Yet I can only distinctly remember 2 times I've ever found a Survivor solely because of their blood trails without the use of blood hound or the wraith/spirits blood addon. Usually I find injured Survivors by sound first instead.
- If the effect is so strong then why not run Lucky Break?
- It doesn't actually matter how strong the effect is, because a healed Survivor automatically has the effect.
Without no mither it goes like this:
- Healthy - No blood trails
- Injured - Blood trails
- Downed - Blood trails
With no mither it is instead like this:
- Injured - No blood trails
- Downed - Blood trails
The issue being that the initial state you would be in when entering a chase is the same both with and without no mither. The only thing no mither does is effectively cut out the intermediary injured state by making you always injured and removing the downsides of being injured, making it as if you were always healthy until you are hit, which is already true anyways of healthy Survivors.
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@skarsguts said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1429395#Comment_1429395
Except infectious fright played on one-shot killers is a brain dead tactic.
In a few weeks there will be killers complaining about calm spirit, guaranteed. After dealing with infectious fright Oni, Plague, Billy, I can see people running it a lot more now thanks to the new Bubba turned infectious fright tunneler from basement camper. I know I'm making it a permanent.
I highly doubt people will complain about calm spirit unless it gets directly buffed. You are using a perk slot to be immune to a perk slot, a perfectly even trade.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1429193#Comment_1429193
Ooooh, I like this idea.
Solos get to know what's going on (killers too I suppose) and survivors have to take a risk to clear the totems with a "Hey killer, I'm over here!" bell.
Not quite. I mean we could do that. But what I'm suggesting isn't a directional thing.
Like everyone hears that a totem was broken, but unless you happen to be nearby you won't hear WHERE it was broken.
Maybe a ToTH buff could make it give a noise notification, but otherwise eh.
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I'd just have the sound effect for breaking a dull totem become global. So the final bone collapsing sound will be heard by everyone signifying a dull totem being cleansed.
From there all you need to do is count.
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Don't you mean Pallets and walls?
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5 seconds minimum +1 second per extra charge used btw
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@onemind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416477#Comment_1416477
Hey theres a perk called were gonna live forever it encourages you to help your teammates which is a secondary objective and it gives you double blood points. So either youre new or have never played killer
What?
Absolutely none of this post is relevant to what you quoted.
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@bubbabrotha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427113#Comment_1427113
Just subtle changes that you wouldn't notice without paying attention. Change LF hook to a meat hook. Stuff like that.
If you make the hooks reflect the Killer then Survivors will specifically go out of their way to check it. They did back when the hooks worked like this.
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@bubbabrotha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1426868#Comment_1426868
The Game already tells you which killer you are facing in the loading screen.
Only if you are brown rank.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427057#Comment_1427057
I never said it was a perfect comparison, but yeah. The main issue still is that Clown's power is very easy to counter at base kit. And while the same may be said for killers like Doctor, or even the fact that in a chase you will inevitably be hit by the Clown's gas, it still doesn't change the fact that he'll have a hard time getting to you because you take the obvious counter lying around and he can't reach you.
You asked why clown is considered low tier trash and doctor isn't.
Doctor has a bit better of a chase power, tracking, stall, better addons and misc utility.
Clown's chase isn't even THAT bad. However, a decent chase power isn't great when Killers that have excellent chase powers are considered balanced (ex: Pyramid Head, Huntress ect).
Doctors viability is proof of this. Decent chase and nothing else = bad Killer. Decent chase and a ton of utility = good Killer. Amazing chase no utility = good Killer.
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Also, the tracking shouldn't be underestimated. Patrol times are a large timesink for a lot of Killers, clown included, but not for Doctor.
Shocking Survivors also cancels all actions in general, not just vaults, which has utility outside of a chase, especially since it applies to static blast.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427014#Comment_1427014
Yeah, he has information with it. Point was that they both have an AoE chase power that is countered in the exact same way, yet one character is much higher on the community's rankings than the other. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Shock Therapy also disables vaults and pallets, to which my answer is either bait them or do it earlier. The exact same thing that happens with Clown. Just with slightly less risk.
It's because Doctor has tracking and STALL on top of his chase potential.
Clown can chase but gets gen rushed easily.
Doctor has similar chase potential, but is much less vulnerable to gen rush.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
Same could be relatively said about Doctor.
I've already covered his problem, but it mainly boils down to the fact that survivors have learnt how to counter his power effectively. That is it. His counter is harsh, and it's easy to use.
Doctor has much more than just chasing.
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Don't worry. Bubba will avenge you
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@Mookywolf said:
i feel like these devs have as much meaning behind words like "minimal" as "slightly" or "moderately" does in the game. it means nothing until you actually see the result.
As an example. This is a slight duration increase:
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@DarKaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1426089#Comment_1426089
Surveillance only triggers when YOU kick a generator, not while Ruin is regressing them, to my knowledge. Maybe add a clause to Feral Frenzy that the Legion can't kick generators, I suppose, and it would fix that build.
No. Surveillance triggers when a generator is regressing, it does not care about how.
You are thinking of PGTW and Overcharge.
If it specifies when you kick a generator then it cares, otherwise it does not.
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Ok that mori requirement is far too lax.
You have infinte Frenzy and sooner or later they have to mend to let you hit them again. Just run Ruin, Surveillance, Thrill of the Hunt, Iron Maiden and you win every game.
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@DarKaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1426062#Comment_1426062
Always. Always, always, always. The cooldown restriction doesn't apply to manually cancelling it, but then again, the Legion in this version is at their worst when outside of Feral Frenzy.
Legion in this version is exactly like he is in live.
How exactly is the Mori triggered? Is it like Tombstone Myers?
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Just to be clear. Is manual Frenzy canceling ALWAYS 3 seconds?