NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
>powering up the wolf form and consumes the taint
dude same
But seriously, this idea does seem pretty rad, if a bit complicated. I'm all for a werewolf killer, and I think the dual form is the best way of going about it. However, I think there's a bit too much going on, and a little too much variability in playstyle that would make him oppressive. I think having a 110 killer that's undetectable and has no way of pulling him out of stealth like Ghostface is too good for the "weaker" of his two forms. Low TR is fine, 0 TR or Red Stain is too good IMO. But then the flipside to that is having a basic M1 killer that's required to get startup for the main power be 110 is also pretty rough. I think 16m TR and 115 for base form would be better, but like I said, just my opinion!
Also, variability in survivor and killer movespeed as part of a power is a bit uncomfortable IMO, and same with stacking too many effects on a tokenset that the survivors don't know of. I personally think that tokens 2 and 5 should be removed, swap the order of lunge and aura reading, and make them 1, 3 and 5 stacks. But, as an added bonus, give those with the "feared" status effect audible whimpers, like injured sounds. Also, I think needing to down a survivor that's tainted to get beast tokens is a bit too involved: you need to get 2 hits in the "weaker" form to access the stronger, which would be a nightmare against good survivors. I think that every time you hit someone in your human form, you should apply the tainted status and receive a token. Similar to Oni's power, but less of a spike in power on a timer, more of an evolution.
And finally the statues. I love the idea of praying to remove the status effect. But I reeeally don't like the concept that the killer can just remove the option entirely. I think the killer should not be able to interact with them, but they are one-time use. You still keep the stacks, but this at least gives the survivors options to avoid the aura reading and noises, but have to be smart about utilization.
I think your perks are absolutely awesome. Incredibly useful, but not too overpowered (or in the case of the one that is, it's a hex totem). Small note though, I think Decay should be 5/4/3 vaults, and should notify the survivor when they first vault a pallet, rather than when the first one breaks. Small details!
Honestly, this is one of the coolest killer ideas I've ever seen, and while I know BHVR can't straight up use fan ideas, I hope they take heavy inspiration from this one. Really really awesome job!
Ok there is something you seem to be misunderstanding a bit.
The Human form isn't supposed to be weak, weaker than wolf form sure but it needs to be usable. The form isn't for chasing which is why it's 110%. But it's not WEAK either. Also by having it be perma-undetectable 110% it's also unique compared to other stealth Killers. 16 meter 115% is just T2 Myers after all and it's not like Ghostface doesn't have plenty of advantages over this Killer stealthwise.
Remember, you are expected to want to willingly use Human form even after the Wolf form is available. If he's too weak then the taint status and beast tokens won't be enough to make up for it.
As for why it's hard to get tokens, I've always found that by putting a lot of power into somethings payoff rather than it's ease of use you can have an overall stronger result without making something braindead easy. By making it so that you have to actually down a Survivor as 110% to get Wolf Form I don't need to consider giving Wolf Form an inherent downside. And by having you continue to need to actually get hits in as 110% and get downs I can continue to have a strong payoff on top of being a 120% Killer.
This was actually a big problem I was having in V1 for this Killer. Since I was making a 120% Killer, he couldn't have an inherently strong power on top of it, but a weak power isn't interesting to use. So my options were to add a strong power and a downside to being 120% or only have a super weak power.
By instead gating the strong mechanics by the Human form, I can make those mechanics stronger and thus more interesting.
So by having Human form be a 110% Stealth Killer that needs to get downs I accomplish the following:
- The distinction in use between the Human and Wolf form is extremely clear. There is no question about why you'd want to use Human form over Wolf form sometimes since he fills a niche
- Human form has lots of counterplay, since Stealth is inherently counterable by awareness and prediction and being 110% prevents brute force as a viable option
- Human form can still succeed despite that counterplay, Stealth is a very health mechanic like that.
- Because of that counterplay, wolf form can be strong as a reward much like T3 Myers
- The vast distinction between Human and Wolf form adds to the skill cap in choosing which form to use at any given moment, rather than just using wolf the entire game once you are able. A 16 TR 115% Killer is too similar in function to the Wolf while a 0 TR 110% Killer doesn't have nearly as much overlap. This is extremely important since a 120% Killer does not inherently have a particularly high skill cap.
As for movement speed altering. What exactly is the issue? Hindered isn't an inherently problematic status effect especially at lower %'s (it won't stop fast vaults or anything) and movement speed alterations also reward players with healthy gameplay styles disproportionately (ex: Campers do not benefit from more movement speed, Killers that patrol distant gens get more use out of it than a Killer in a 3 gen ect). The eventual 5% MS increase also acts as a great final reward for putting in a lot of effort which goes back to what I said earlier about Payoff>Consistency.
Prayer statues are like they are for a similar reason but I can see changing them anyways. So I'll look into that I guess.
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@ItzNobody said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418652#Comment_1418652
Interesting. You mind sharing some strategies, such as perk builds or killers with whom you have a higher success rate utilizing this perk with? I have experimented with this myself, but if there is an oversight I would gladly like to approach it the way you have.
Basically the #1 Killers that work with the perk are stealth Killers, which is why I use it on ghostface.
This is because stealth Killers can ambush Survivors going for saves or heals to force the perk to proc and also get more value out of injured Survivors than from healing Survivors.
Legion and Spirit in particular can also get value out of the perk since they can easily proc it with their powers. Spirit is also a Killer that works well against injured Survivors.
Some perk synergies are:
Thrilling Tremors - Procing this perk means not only is the Survivor injured, but he is also unable to work on gens, rendering the Survivors practically incapacitated for the duration
Surge - Broken Survivors will work on gens injured, meaning you can down them before they get far.
Discordance- to find grouped Survivors to proc the perk on.
And more
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@Cheers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418590#Comment_1418590
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SSI7DN45VCCT/1594071911556-gamer-dvr.png
Not much to say here. Ghostface wasn't great and only got two hooks, and he whiffed a lot of hits on me that should have downed me.
I was injured for most of the trial, and the obsessions was too! So solidarity came in help. Autodidact only got two tokens in the end, and Spinechill extremely helpful as it was a Ghostface.
Nice! Glad it worked out for you.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418669#Comment_1418669
Any decent player can get the first Feral Frenzy hit with Legion, guaranteed. It lasts too long, and even if you fake a pallet drop to make Legion respect a pallet, he’s fast enough to catch up.
Not sure what these god loops you’re referring to are.
Well NOW you can't. But prior to his buff there were some jungle gyms you could loop him at, you could loop him around the shack and you could loop him around the (now nerfed) god windows.
You don't need to get the stun, his vault speed was slow enough that you could make sufficient distance to reach a vault then then get back to the pallet.
Now that his vault speed and movement speed is increased this is no longer the case and he gets a hit wherever.
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Not quite. What you need is not a buff but rather quality of life improvements.
Easier not stronger.
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@Cheers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418673#Comment_1418673
Knowing my luck I'll be dead.
Any recommendations for the other perk slots?
Deliverance to be even more extra
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418632#Comment_1418632
No one has to “loop” Legion while he’s in Frenzy, he can’t down you!!! All you’re doing is trying to delay his first Feral Frenzy hit...
Once he gets out of Feral Frenzy he’s a regular 115% killer.
The OP is alluding to having a killer moving at 120% with the ability to down.
Yes I know. But even tho they don't HAVE to loop Frenzy. Back when he was 125% they could do so anyways. Meaning that even if he could down in Frenzy he would be unable to do so in certain loops (a minority of loops but still).
A 120% Killer without the super vaults would thus also be loopable. Not as loopable as a 115% Killer, but more loopable than a Nurse or Hag for example.
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No. This perk is currently the only perk that applies the broken status effect, and protection hits are surprisingly easy to force.
My current main Ghostface build uses this perk. If you ambush a healer, and unhooker or someone just working on a gen with an injured person in the general area it will proc the perk.
I've had a lot of games where I was able to get all 4 Survivors broken simultaneously and from watching streamers I've played against I know that the 60 second window blocked them from healing when they would have otherwise wanted to.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418498#Comment_1418498
Legion’s feral frenzy can’t down anyone, and it’s limited. That a HUGE difference from base 120% speed.
Yes and it STILL wasn't consistently enough.
So if Survivors can loop a 125% Killer with super vaults. I think they can loop a 120% Killer with no additional anti-loop.
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My current build is:
- Solidarity
- Autodidact
- Blood Pact
- Spine Chill
It's a good medic build.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418498#Comment_1418498
Which is why i said 120% movement speed AND break pallets twice as fast 😃
Breaking pallets twice as fast is still a bit much. It'd be better to give them utility through their power instead.
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Ironicly those players don't have empathy
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@MongolPSR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418498#Comment_1418498
Is that true? I wasn't around when legion first came out I started playing right before ghostface dropped so my experience with him was already after the changes.
When the Legion FIRST came out he was 130% in frenzy and was fine.
Then he had his update and was nerfed down to 125% with a slower vault speed among other things and would struggle to get a hit in with Frenzy around certain loops
And then he was buffed back up to 130% with the vault speeds restored and was fine again.
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@Peanits said:
It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it.
Being real for a second, though, increasing the size slightly wouldn't really help too much. You can only make a knife so much bigger before it starts to look silly, and it would still likely be much smaller than the hitbox. Making some weapons larger is also a lot trickier to do on licensed killers, like Freddy and Ghost Face. I can only imagine that it wouldn't be easy to get Hulk Hands approved for Freddy.
What we've done in the past is change their attack animations to better reflect it. The killers with small weapons would lean forward further as they attack, unlike killers with larger weapons (like The Trapper) who just swing their weapon. If they still aren't lining up very well, I think it would be great to revisit them again and make more changes.
2 things I would add to help with this sort of thing.
1: An afterimage created based on where the Survivor was on the Server end when the Survivor was hit, visible to the Survivor. That way when they are hit after vaulting a window they see that the Killer had actually hit them mid vault
2: A disjointed white slash animation that represents the actual edge of the hitbox, regardless of the size of the weapon.
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Let me also remind people that the Legion before his most recent buff was often unable to get a hit in on Survivors in stronger loops.
At the time he was a 125% Killer with a significantly increased vault speed.
They had to buff him to a 130% Killer with an even faster vault speed for him to get hits in reliably under those circumstances.
A Killer that has 120% MS, 40 meter TR and absolutely nothing else would be underpowered.
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I would like to point out that bloodlust 1 doesn't suddenly make you unloopable. It's only at bloodlust 2 and 3 that the Survivor becomes screwed.
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You wouldn't need to do as much as you'd think.
120% MS acts as minor anti-loop and boosts gap closing and patrol times. But that's it. 120% MS does not hard counter loops like a 110% Killers power does or anything.
PWYF is great and all, but you don't start getting free hits with it while you only have 1 stack. Easier hits yes, but not free. Same goes for NOED.
As for specifics. I've designed 2 Killers capable of indefinite 120% MS
@NuclearBurrito said:
Another take at one of my older Killer ideas. Specifically a werewolf Killer.
The Wolf
Terror Radius: 0 (more on that)
Movement Speed: 4.4 (110%)
Power: Unholy Curse - You have 2 forms, Human form and Wolf form which each have unique effects. You start the trial in human form and can transform by holding M2 for 2 seconds, you move at 3 M/S (75%) during the channel and there will be a non-directional global audio que when transforming into a wolf in the form of a howl. (Transforming into a human is nearly silent)
Human Form:
- You are passively undetectable and move at a reduced speed at 4.4 M/S (110%)
- Basic attacks on Survivors will apply the tainted status effect, which lasts until it is manually removed (more on that) or until they are downed.
- Downing a tainted Survivor grants a Beast token, powering up the wolf form and consumes the taint. You may have a maximum of 5 Beast tokens which last for the entire trial.
Note: On injured Survivors, taint is applied BEFORE the down. Meaning a tainted injured Survivor will be untainted after giving the token, and an untainted injured Survivor will give a token after being downed in human form.
Wolf Form:
- You have an increased terror radius (40 meters) and an increased movement speed of 4.8 M/S (120%)
- Tainted Survivors within your terror radius are considered "Feared" which has effects depending on how many beast tokens you have and your addons.
- You must have at least 1 Beast token to transform and gain bonuses depending on the number of tokens you have. The effects of Beast tokens are the following:
- 1 Token: You may transform into wolf form
- 2 Tokens: Feared Survivors move 0.1 M/S Slower (5%)
- 3 Tokens: You see the aura of Survivors that become feared for 5 seconds
- 4 Tokens: You have an extended lunge range (same as T3 Myers)
- 5 Tokens: Your movement speed is increased to 5.0 M/S (125%)
Prayer Statues:
- 5 Prayer Statues will spawn all around the map.
- Survivors may pray at a prayer statue for 10 seconds to remove the tainted status effect.
- The Killer may destroy prayer statues while in human form disabling it for the rest of the trial. However this will also disable transforming for 30 seconds. Destroying a statue takes 2 seconds and is effected by anything that effects breaking speed.
Perks
- Mark of the Beast - Survivors you hit with a basic attack become marked. The next time they attempt to heal, repair, open an exit gate, open a chest, break a totem or sabotage a hook they will scream revealing their aura for 3/4/5 seconds and consuming the mark.
- Hex: Decay - After a Survivor has vaulted over the same pallet 4/3/2 times it will instantly break. This effect is disabled once the Hex totem is cleansed
- Hidden Rage - If you hit a Survivor with a basic attack within 5 seconds of them entering your terror radius this perk activates. Your next pallet break or vault action within 20/25/30 seconds will be preformed 100% faster.
Addons
Brown
- Decrease how long you are locked in human form after destroying a Prayer Statue (by 5 seconds)
- You do not howl while transforming into a wolf
- You transform from wolf form into human form 0.5 seconds faster
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 1 second
Yellow
- Decrease how long you are locked in human form after destroying a Prayer Statue (by 10 seconds)
- 1 less Prayer Statue spawns
- Decrease time to transform into Wolf form by 0.3 seconds
- Feared Survivors have a 5% reduced action speed
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 2 seconds
Green
- Decrease time to transform into Wolf form by 0.5 seconds
- Feared Survivors have a 10% reduced action speed
- The slowdown effect on feared Survivors is increased by 0.05 M/S (2.5%)
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 2 seconds)
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 3 seconds
Purple
- The first time you down a tainted Survivor, gain an additional beast token
- You can see the aura of Prayer Statues within 24 meters
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 4 seconds)
- Each beast token increases your terror radius by 2 meters while in Wolf form
Red
- You start the trial with a beast token
- You may obtain up to 6 beast tokens. The 6th beast tokens causes feared Survivors to have the exposed effect
Note: The aura of Prayer Statues are NOT revealed to anyone. They are considered to be Killer Belongings for the purposes of perks and items.
The Wolf is a transforming Killer with a 110% stealth mode that enables and gradually empowers a 120% beast mode
@NuclearBurrito said:
The Acolyte
Lore - A loyal worshiper of the Entity even before being pulled into the fog the Acolyte is very used to making sacrifices.
Weapon - Ornamental Dagger + Blood vial (when hitting a survivor he has an animation of the blood dripping into a vial
Movement Speed - 115%
Terror Radius - 32 meters
Height - ShortPower: Blood Ritual - Every time the Acolyte hits a survivor he gains a blood token. He can channel M2 (2 seconds) to expend 2 tokens in order to call upon the entity's favor giving him a choice of 3 essence orbs: Green, Red and Blue which can be selected from simply by looking at the appropriate orb and pressing M1.
Once an Orb is obtained pressing M2 again will consume the currently held orb which will grant you a temporary Absorption buff depending on the color of the Orb used for 20 seconds and then a permanent Essence buff also dependent on the color when the duration runs out. Each Essence buff may be collected multiple times and stacks with itself indefinitely.
The effects are:
- Green - Increase your movement speed by 0.2 M/S and your vault speed by 20%. Essence effect - Increase your movement speed by 0.04 M/S
- Red - Increases your pallet and generator breaking speed by 25% and decreases your Successful Attack recovery by 50%. Essence effect - Increase your pallet and generator breaking speed by 5%
- Blue - Decreases your terror radius by 10 meters and increases your Lunge duration by 0.2 seconds. Essence effect - Decreases your terror radius by 10%.
Addons
Brown
- Cursed branch: Start with 1 Green essence
- Blood stained cloth: Start with 1 Red essence
- Unopened letter: Start with 1 Blue essence
- Talisman: Slightly increases summoning speed (-0.25 seconds)
Yellow
- Alm of Haste: Moderately increases the absorption vault speed increase of green orbs. (+5% vault speed )
- Alm of Bloodlust: Moderately increases the absorption attack cooldown reduction of red orbs. (+12.5% attack cooldown decrease)
- Alm of Secrecy: Moderately increases the absorption lunge range increase of blue orbs. (+0.05 seconds lunge)
- Canvas Talisman: Moderately increases summoning speed. (-0.5 seconds)
- Decorated vial: Increase absorption duration by 10 seconds
Green
- Aged Alm of Haste: Increases the effect of green essence moderately. (+0.02 M/S haste)
- Aged Alm of Bloodlust: Increases the effect of red essence moderately. (+2.5% pallet breaking)
- Aged Alm of Secrecy: Increases the effect of blue essence moderately. (-5% TR)
- Rotten Talisman: Considerably increases summoning speed. (-0.75 seconds)
- Crystal necklace: Moderately increases all Absorption vault speed, attack cooldown and lunge duration effects.
Purple
- Rotted Alm: Moderately increases all essence effects.
- Cultist Robes: Orbs cost 1 less blood
- False Idol: start with 1 of each essence
- Sentimental Relic: The first time you absorb each color Orb all Survivors will receive the exposed status effect equal to it's duration and you will not receive it's essence afterwards.
Red
- Iridescent Alm: Each orb grants an additional essence. Reduces the Absorption duration by 15 seconds.
- Bloody Offering: Your first 3 orbs are free, tremendously increases summoning speed. (-1 second). Additional orbs will cost 1 more blood than normal.
Perks
- Ritual of sacrifice - You may kill 1/2/4 survivors who have been rescued from the hook after the summoning phase (Note: This only saves the time between picking them up and hooking them since they are dead on hook at this point)
- Hex: Devotion - Each hooked survivor increases your movement speed by 5%. This effect is persists for 5/10/15 seconds after the survivor is unhooked. These effects are disabled if the hex totem is broken
- Curse of solitude - A random survivor is the obsession. Anyone who does a cooperative or altruistic action with or on the obsession or has a cooperative or altruistic action done to them by the obsession gets exposed for 20 seconds. The obsession gets a 15/10/5% action speed bonus to non-altruistic non-repair actions preformed alone and an additional 5% bonus for each other dead survivor
Survivor Perks
- Hyper Sensitive - Pain fuels you. You gain an additional 50% speed when getting hit by the killer for 1/1.5/2 seconds
- Without a trace - You escape with nothing left from you. When the exit gates are powered you leave no scratch marks for 40/50/60 seconds.
- Fleet feet - You make your way around easily. While healthy and not in the killer's terror radius or in a chase you run 4%/5%/6% faster
Credit to @L3gi0nMa1n for most of the addons and @8obot1c for the Survivor perks
The Acolyte isn't 120% per say, but is able to increase their base MS throughout the trial as they hit Survivors.
In both cases they can have both 120% AND a power, with the balancing factor simply being a prerequisite before they can start using the speed.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1417647#Comment_1417647
Could just create a new one. Or transfer what killers hear to survivors. I just feel that a bright warning light for a supposed stealth perk wasn't the way to go.
Ok but a noise notification conveys the same information. You aren't solving the problem
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@CertArn said:
Damn, you guys are missing the point.
First of all, where did i write B&C is OP? I guess nowhere. Perk alone is fine.
Second, lockers are not good "advice" just because some random thing (i didn't know about) can be randomly countered. It is not a lottery.
Gameplay expect me to hide from a killer, right? But i can't do this without knowing what to expect. Against LF i know he will have it so i'm more mobile, just like i'm aware of Huntress axes when i run like a madman always trying to stay behind some tree or something.
My point is - I DON'T KNOW WHY I CANNOT HIDE FROM A KILLER.
And on top of that that's why gameplay overall is badly balanced, because devs cannot balance everything with everything. It's impossible. And those perks will pile on giving us more and more broken combos. There is a reason why all red ranked players have similar perks. Buffing or nerfing will not work, because one perk will be replaced with another from this pile.
Maybe i'm low level, and you are on rank 5 or higher, but guess what - you are 10-20% minority here. From my gameplay experience 50% of killers have B&C. On higher levels maybe it is a waste of perk slot, but on lower not. It is unfair.
I don't even have problem with infamous NOED, because when gates are opened players know what to expect.
Ok so there are a finite number of tracking perks that will reveal your location in one way or another. All of them have at least one counter:
- BBQ - As mentioned Lockers, Running back after 4 seconds, hiding behind a gen, Anti-aura perks
- Spies from the Shadows - Crouch if you have to get close to crows, otherwise avoid them if possible. Alternatively bring calm spirit
- Infectious Fright - Try and stay out of the Killers terror radius while they are chasing an injured Survivor. Alternatively bring calm spirit. You will know if they have this perk
- Thrilling Tremors - Let go of your gen after a Survivor is downed and then wait out the 16 seconds
- Discordance - Only work on gens alone
- Iron Maiden - Avoid lockers or bring calm spirit. You will know if they have this perk
- Bitter Murmer - After completing a gen run in one way and double back after 5 seconds. Do this for 10 seconds after the final gen is completed. Alternatively run anti-aura perks
- Deathboud - Heal at the edge of the Killers terror radius or run calm spirit. You will know if they have this perk
- Nurses Calling - Don't heal too close to the Killer or run anti-aura perks.
- Gearhead - Hit great skillchecks
- Rancor - Switch your position after each gen completion. If you are the Obsession you will know if the Killer has this perk
- Surveillance - Do not commit to repairing regressing gens. Just tap it and leave.
- Tinkerer - Once the gen is 70% complete start hiding for 16 seconds before doing the rest
- Dead mans switch - Stay on the gen for the duration for as long as possible after the Obsession is hooked. You will know if the Killer has this perk.
A perk that can help with this is Repressed Alliance. Since a lot of these counters involve leaving a gen unfinished you can use the perk to lock it's progress while you are leaving. While there are a few other perks I didn't mention with tracking components, they are all mid chase tracking perks or aren't able to find a Survivor at range.
Also some Killer powers have a direct tracking component:
- Doctor - Hop in a locker if you are in his terror radius when he attempts a static blast. Otherwise try and stay out of his terror radius at all times
- Legion - Make sure you are out of his terror radius when he hit someone with Frenzy. Otherwise it's already too late no matter what.
- Hag/Trapper/Freddy/Demogorgon - Avoid their traps
- Executioner - Avoid his trail
- Plague - Do not touch infected objects unless you are already infected yourself
- Oni - Prioritize healing
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Have a very distinctive sound and an associated status effect that a non-hex perk wouldn't be able to accurately replicate
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Just wake up before doing the unhook and don't do it literallyin his face. It's not hard and if he's face camping just do gens. Even if it's not a Freddy, just do gens and let the guy on the hook buy time for 2 minutes.
The only hard part is realizing that they are being camped in the first place. But otherwise just don't do unsafe hooks ffs.
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@Levitika said:
Wouldn't this effectively just be a much more powerful, automatic version of Bamboozle?
No. Bamboozle is proactive and has additional utility due to vault speed.
This is reactive and has a cooldown. If the Survivor uses the windows for distance then the perk does nothing, whereas Bamboozle can be used before the chase even starts and can help you catch Survivors that use a god window.
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Just make the value of each token scale with living Survivors. Each obsession hit grants a token up to 4/6/8 and each token slows down gate opening speed by 2 seconds per living Survivor other than the Obsession.
This is a 48 second slowdown if every non-Obsession Survivor is alive but only a 16 second slowdown if it's 1 Survivor in the EGC.
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@Mr_Gr00vy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416639#Comment_1416639
@NuclearBurrito, wraith or spirit shouldn't be a problem either as with proper add-ons. Can destroy the survivors. Like Wraith's Ultra-Rare Addon that allows his bell to be silent. which he can use for ambush attacks
I'm not commenting on their ability to win the game in general. I was just commenting on the specific scenario of "a healthy Survivor is trying to unhook right in front of you". Like you mentioned Deathslinger using his gun. But if I'm playing as Wraith I obviously can't use Deathslingers gun.
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@Mr_Gr00vy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416625#Comment_1416625
But if u know how play your killer with excellent skill. U could down that person instantly like for say deathslinger.
The person unhooks the person and the person who got unhooked runs away but you use your rifle, stab the unhooker/ reel them in, get a hit off of them, start a chase and hopefully end it quickly. Then throw them on hook
That depends on which Killer you are. If you're an instant down Killer like Billy or Bubba you shouldn't have an issue. If you aren't, like Spirit or Wraith it's a different story.
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If we were to give unhooked Survivors basekit endurance it should be no longer than 3 seconds. That's enough time to start running and nothing else.
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Anyways, it's stealth that prevents tunneling, not tankiness. You can't tunnel a Survivor if you don't know where they are. You CAN tunnel a Survivor that just took a hit.
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@Mr_Gr00vy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416606#Comment_1416606
Yes, that I think about it. Sounds bad but wouldn't that mean that the killer could just strike at the unhooker?
I mean you can try but he's most likely healthy.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416609#Comment_1416609
O, I know that. I'll clarify that. I meant a reverse for survivors.
That would just have the same information but conveyed differently. Survivors don't have loud noise notifications currently making it obvious what the source was.
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Tinkerer doesn't have a sound notification for the Survivors.
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Some other perks to look at:
- Quick and Quiet - Lets you quickly dip into lockers and if the Killer is checking corners you can quickly hop over a window to avoid being spotted
- Sprint Burst - Taping space bar lets you walk away at sprint speed without leaving scratchmarks. It also acts as a plan B, since you can get away with it in the event that you ARE spotted
- Distortion - Obvious. Means you can ignore hiding for BBQ and other similar perks
- Calm Spirit - You actually can hide from the doctor without this perk by being extra careful about being in his TR and being mindful of his Shock Blast cooldown. However you can use this perk to trivialize that and ignore perks like infectious fright or deathbound. Niche but whatever.
- Diversion - Useful for getting the Killer away from your area if used properly.
- Urban Evasion - For the same reason as fixated. Works in more locations but not for as long. Fixated tends to be better simply because many gens have walls you don't need to crouch to be hidden by
- Premonition - Only run this perk if you are already running Spine Chill. If you have a problem with hiding in the wrong angle and running into the Killer then this perk fixes that.
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I would actually NOT recommend iron will if you are going all in on stealth.
It's a great mid-chase stealth perk. However if your goal is to avoid chases entirely rather than just escaping them ASAP then iron will should ideally never provide you with any value, since you won't be injured on account of the Killer not finding you.
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Spine Chill
Fixated
Poised
Repressed Alliance
SC tells you when the Killer is coming.
Fixated lets you walk around objects so the Killer juuuuust misses you.
Poised lets you move quickly between gens without getting caught. Pop the gen and dip.
Repressed Alliance ensures they can't pop your gen while they are looking for you and get let you do some cheeky plays involving 99%ed gens. You will be the gen jokey if you are running a build like this, so the activation requirement won't be hard.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416499#Comment_1416499
We don’t want to be encouraging play whereby doing the least amount of contribution allows a player to both escape and increase their rank.
Why?
No one will do anything at all.
TLDR: if no one does anything then no gens get done and therefor no one will escape
if someone does nothing then they are sabotaging their teams odds of success, which always effects their own winrate more than their teammates simply because they are always in their own games while their teammates are not.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416499#Comment_1416499
We don’t want to be encouraging play whereby doing the least amount of contribution allows a player to both escape and increase their rank.
Why?
No one will do anything at all.
Because if that just so happens to be the most effective escape method then it should be ranked up so that they will be facing increasingly better Killers in order to contest their strategy.
Lets put it this way. Given Killers ranking up by Killing and Survivors ranking up by Surviving, that means the higher the ranks the more consistent the Killer and Survivor will be at their job. The less consistent a strategy is the less you can rank up and the more you will rank down.
The effectiveness of a given strategy is dependent on how well it is at countering the strategies being used at your current rank.
So in the case of someone urban evasioning around the match, that player will eventually be matched with Killers that slug for the 4k. Because the Killers that DON'T slug won't successfully kill the UE players and thus won't be ranking up along with the UE player. So the UE players will be ranked up into the Killers that are able to kill UE players.
This will hold true for any strategy, Killer or Survivor, besides the respective roles dominant strategy. For example gen rush + skilled looping + 2nd chance perks is the Survivor dominant strategy, in that you either won't be able to find Killers capable of reliably countering it, or alternatively there isn't a superior strategy to adapt into against the Killers capable of preforming the counterplay. However, for suboptimal strategies such as hyper-immersion, their winrate will go down as their rank increases until it goes below 50% and they are forced to switch strategies in order to win enough to continue climbing in rank.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416396#Comment_1416396
Lol, those are probably just the survivors Urban Evasion’ing around the map.
And? If that's the optimal strategy then that should be the one that gets you to red ranks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
No.
Because a killer could get 2 kills just from 2 hooks and camping them to death.
A survivor could escape by skulking around doing nothing just waiting for a gate to be open or the waiting for the hatch.
I mean that's more a symptom of 2k being too low a threshhold. You can hardly say you won when your objective is only half done. That'd be like saying you win as Survivor for completing 3 gens, you still have 2 more to do plus the gates.
3k would make that much harder, and if they get 3 kills from camping in a match then they were clearly facing Survivors that weren't strong enough for him and he needs to be pipped up so they will face stronger Survivors that are better at countering camping.
And we know that the higher rank Survivors will be better at countering camping because those ranks are made up of those 4th Survivors you failed to Kill.
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Rank is supposed to measure effectiveness, not sportsmanship
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@Star99er said:
So what you're saying is Blendette's who sit outside the map and urban evade the entire game should be rewarded for doing nothing?
If that strategy happens to be a successful one at their rank then yes.
I can't imagine that continuing to work at higher ranks however. Someone not being on gens all game makes the game easier for the Killer thus reducing their personal odds of Survival considerably. They'd eventually pip up to a rank where they'd be forced to improve their strategy or die.
Or in the hypothetical event that such a strategy is actually an extremely consistent domanent strategy, then they SHOULD be pipped up to the top ranks where the Killers who would be the best at dealing with said strategy are. Otherwise we are just giving them free wins against noobs forever.
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Sure but shouldn't it be 3k?
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No. Any buff given to him shouldn't just make him more like Huntress, we already have the Huntress thank you very much.
Instead I'd like to see his reel speed drastically increased at the cost of a proportional chain durability decrease. To speed up his downing without actually nerfing or removing his counterplay at all.
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The idea of 2k being a tie for Killer never even made sense to me. Who are you tying WITH exactly? Survivors can't tie after all. They either escape or die trying, it's very binary. As for Killer, you either successfully killed the Survivors or you failed. Calling some amount of kills a tie is meaningless.
You call something a tie when either both sides of the conflict successfully completed their wincondition or if both sides are permanently unable to complete their objective or alternatively if both sides simultaneously achieve their lose condition.
However, since Survivors do not represent a cohesive side there is no one for the Killer to tie with, and thus a draw is logically impossible.
Even if you are defining a win based off pips (which is objectively incorrect but whatever) it's still impossible to draw, since the pip system isn't competative and doesn't have an opposing side to tie with.
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@MeatBycicle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416344#Comment_1416344
I think a lot of people understand that, but even at 2k average that's a loss for killer while for a survivor is a win.
It's a Killer loss and a loss for 2 Survivors.
Survivors are a set of individuals that technically have a separate win condition, not a cohesive team that wins and loses together.
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You are mixing up average with mode.
Mode is the most common result, not average.
The average street fighter match ends in a draw, but draws are also the least likely outcome in any particular match.
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2k balance means 2k AVERAGE.
Meaning most games are not 2k's because most games will either be 4k's or 0k's, which evens out to 2k over a ton of games.
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The easiest Killer to farm with is Ghostface. You can get to them with stealth and then tbag once they see you.
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I don't see how camping is going to help. The changes specifically make their camping weaker, so camping MORE just further justifies doing so.
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Make Cruel Confinement great again!
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@MrDrakanator said:
"Not abiding to any rule but their own" I wonder why one of their rules is that they have to stun themselves for 20 minutes at some point after they activate their power, and there is nothing they can do about it.
House rules man
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@Flarefire_Xx said:
It’s just to make tracking easier with a larger amount of blood, but’s it’s pretty useless if you aren’t new
If you are new it's even more useless. More blood doesn't make that blood easier to track.