NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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nope. It's abusable to force a free unhook
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4%ing is an example of swing. Meaning that it's RNG causing a power increase or decrease (depending on perspective). Too much swing makes balance impossible, so in general you want the effects of swing to be as low as possible.
Where I'm going with this is that the more reward you give the Survivor for 4%ing, the less fair the mechanic is, and it's inherently unfair already.
If anything, it would be better to given endurance ONLY for deliverance self unhooks. Because at least then it was the reward for a deterministic outcome instead of a random one.
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Ok so basically, this perk had the same niche as Solidarity.
Specifically, if you are the healer on your team then it's the perk you run so the players without healing perks aren't wasting time healing you. If you are not running a healing build then you shouldn't be running the healing build synergy perks. (Blood pact, Solidarity, Second Wind, Empathy ect)
So that said, if you ARE running a healing build then the comparison point is between this perk and Solidarity.
Solidarity:
- Only works while injured
- 1 heal charge on others = 0.5 heal charge on self
- Unlimited uses
- Gives heal immediately
Second Wind:
- Works at any time
- 1 heal charge on others = 1 heal charge on self
- 2 uses
- Gives heal 30 seconds after an unhook
Both perks also have a limit of 1 health state per use with Solidarity requiring you to get injured again to keep using it, and Second Wind requiring you to be unhooked.
Second Wind has the advantage of not needing you to be the first person caught, but if you ARE the first person caught the perk straight up doesn't work. This means Second Wind is more valuable if you are good at stealth while Solidarity doesn't particularly care about stealth.
There are other differences. But again, ONLY RUN ONE OF THESE PERKS IF YOU ARE ALREADY RUNNING A HEALING BUILD.
Don't run a healing build specifically for these perks, you do it the other way around. If you find yourself healing people often then run healing perks and if you run healing perks then you run healing synergy perks. Your playstyle should always inform your build rather than your build informing your playstyle.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1456686#Comment_1456686
"never inside of the basement or directly above it."
Can't the hatch spawn in shack while the basement is in shack?
No
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And in fact, because of the nature of reworks, it is possible for a Killer to be balanced but need a rework anyways.
Reworks are usually needed to solve issues that go beyond balance.
Pure balance issues can be solved with numbers changes after all.
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This is a false dichotomy. Not all changes are an example of a rework and thus a Killer can be unbalanced but not need a rework.
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The rule is "more gens completed than living Survivors"
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I highly doubt it was 10-15 seconds. It was probably closer to 20 seconds.
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Basically there are specific locations where the hatch can spawn. There are a lot of them but it's finite. All of them are always on the lowest level of the map and never inside of the basement or directly above it.
By running left behind you can find where the spawn locations are and make a note of them for later, in the long run this can help ensure you are able to locate the hatch more easily in the future.
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Run left behind. Memorize where you keep seeing the hatch while using the perk. When not running the perk check those places first.
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@ Antares2332 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1456656#Comment_1456656
I think because it is fun to play with/against him. Pity the devs have changed.
People have written entire essays on why Billy is great, even before a nerf was announced. Shame the devs don't seem to have read them.
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The only strong thing that Survivors don't usually complain about is Billy. And apparently we can't have him either. Everything else is either weak, or strong but complained about.
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Can we have something strong? Absolutely
Can we have something strong without Survivors complaining about it? Never
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So that I can die harder
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Another take at one of my older Killer ideas. Specifically a werewolf Killer.
The Wolf
Terror Radius: 0/40
Movement Speed: 4.4/4.8 (110%/120%)
Power: Unholy Curse - You have 2 forms, Human form and Wolf form which each have unique effects. You start the trial in human form and can transform by holding M2 for 2 seconds, you move at 3 M/S (75%) during the channel and there will be a directional audio que when transforming into a wolf in the form of a howl. Transforming into a human has a non-directional global transformation sound.
Human Form:
- You are passively undetectable and move at a reduced speed at 4.4 M/S (110%)
- Basic attacks on Survivors will apply the tainted status effect, which lasts until it is manually removed (more on that) or until they are downed.
- Downing a tainted Survivor grants a Beast token, powering up the wolf form and consumes the taint. You may have a maximum of 3 Beast tokens which last for the entire trial.
Note: On injured Survivors, taint is applied BEFORE the down. Meaning a tainted injured Survivor will be untainted after giving the token, and an untainted injured Survivor will give a token after being downed in human form.
Wolf Form:
- You have an increased terror radius (40 meters) and an increased movement speed of 4.8 M/S (120%)
- Tainted Survivors within your terror radius are considered "Feared" which has effects depending on how many beast tokens you have and your addons.
- You must have at least 1 Beast token to transform and gain bonuses depending on the number of tokens you have. The effects of Beast tokens are the following:
- 1 Token: You may transform into wolf form. Feared Survivors cry out as if injured
- 2 Tokens: You have an extended lunge range (same as T3 Myers)
- 3 Tokens: You see the aura of Survivors that become feared for 5 seconds
Prayer Statues:
- 3 Prayer Statues will spawn around the map.
- Survivors may pray at a prayer statue for 10 seconds to remove the tainted status effect.
- After a Survivor plays at a statue, the statue goes dark and is disabled for 60 seconds
Perks
- Mark of the Beast - Survivors you hit with a basic attack become marked. The next time they attempt to heal, repair, open an exit gate, open a chest, break a totem or sabotage a hook they will scream revealing their aura for 3/4/5 seconds and consuming the mark.
- Hex: Decay - After a Survivor has vaulted over the same pallet 4/3/2 times it will instantly break. This effect is disabled once the Hex totem is cleansed
- Hidden Rage - If you hit a Survivor with a basic attack within 5 seconds of them entering your terror radius this perk activates. Your next pallet break or vault action within 20/25/30 seconds will be preformed 100% faster.
Addons
Brown
- Increase the lockout duration of prayer statues (by 10 seconds)
- The howl when turning into a wolf is non-directional
- You transform from wolf form into human form 0.5 seconds faster
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 1 second
Yellow
- Increase the lockout duration of prayer statues (by 15 seconds)
- You can see the aura of Prayer Statues within 24 meters
- Decrease time to transform into Wolf form by 0.3 seconds
- Feared Survivors have a 5% reduced action speed
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 2 seconds
Green
- Decrease time to transform into Wolf form by 0.5 seconds
- Feared Survivors have a 10% reduced action speed
- Feared Survivors are 50% louder
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 2 seconds)
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 3 seconds
Purple
- The first time you down a tainted Survivor, gain an additional beast token
- 1 less Prayer Statue spawns
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 4 seconds)
- Each beast token increases your terror radius by 4 meters while in Wolf form
Red
- You start the trial with a beast token
- You may obtain up to 4 beast tokens. The 4th beast tokens causes feared Survivors to have the exposed effect
Note: The aura of Prayer Statues are NOT revealed to anyone. They are considered to be Killer Belongings for the purposes of perks and items.
@NuclearBurrito said:
The Mistwalker
Movement Speed - 4.6 M/S (115%)
Terror Radius - 32 meters
Power: Reality Tears -
You have the ability to place portals to the dark world anywhere on the map, that allow the Killer AND the Survivors to enter and exit the dark world. Placing or removing a portal takes 2 seconds and you may have up to 9 placed portals by default. There is one portal in the center of the map at the start of the trial that cannot be removed. (Note: this is to ensure that Survivors ALWAYS have a way to enter an exit the dark world. Also the starting portal doesn't count towards your 9 portals meaning you can have a total of 10 portals).
The Killer may see the aura of all portals at all times.
Placing a portal has a distinctive auto que that can be heard by Survivors within 12 meters.
You may utilize portals any time you are standing on them, even if you are carrying a Survivor. Using the secondary power button. Using a portal is instantaneous.
Survivors may use a portal by holding M1 and preforming a 3 second channel. When this channel ends the portals aura will turn yellow for the Killer signifying it's use. Survivor portraits will also indicate if a Survivor is in the Dark World or not.
The Dark world:
In the Dark World, the walls, windows and generators are simply illusions. They have no collision and may be walked through freely but cannot be interacted with. Pallets do not exist in the dark world. Players in the dark world and players outside of the dark world cannot see or hear each other. Hooks however are fully functional.
While the Killer is in the Dark World he moves at 5 M/S (125%) and is undetectable. The Killer can still place portals while in the Dark world.
While a Survivor is in the Dark World they do not leave scratchmarks.
The Killer starts the trial in the Dark World.
Perks
- Binding Chains - Whenever a Survivor stops working on a generator they receive the Hindered status effect, reducing their movement speed by 10% for 2/3/4 seconds
- Curtain's Call - After the last generator is powered, all Survivor action progress will regress at 1/2/3 charges per second while not being preformed for the remainder of the trial. (ex: Healing, wiggling, exit gate switches ect)
- Loners Demise - After downing a Survivor, any Survivors that work on a generator within the next 15 seconds will scream and gain the Blindness and Oblivious status effect for 45 seconds once the 15 seconds is up. Has a 80/70/60 second cooldown.
@NuclearBurrito said:
The Acolyte
Lore - A loyal worshiper of the Entity even before being pulled into the fog the Acolyte is very used to making sacrifices.
Weapon - Ornamental Dagger + Blood vial (when hitting a survivor he has an animation of the blood dripping into a vial
Movement Speed - 115%
Terror Radius - 32 meters
Height - ShortPower: Blood Ritual - Every time the Acolyte hits a survivor he gains a blood token. He can channel M2 (2 seconds) to expend 2 tokens in order to call upon the entity's favor giving him a choice of 3 essence orbs: Green, Red and Blue which can be selected from simply by looking at the appropriate orb and pressing M1.
Once an Orb is obtained pressing M2 again will consume the currently held orb which will grant you a temporary Absorption buff depending on the color of the Orb used for 20 seconds and then a permanent Essence buff also dependent on the color when the duration runs out. Each Essence buff may be collected multiple times and stacks with itself indefinitely.
The effects are:
- Green - Increase your movement speed by 0.2 M/S and your vault speed by 20%. Essence effect - Increase your movement speed by 0.04 M/S
- Red - Increases your pallet and generator breaking speed by 25% and decreases your Successful Attack recovery by 50%. Essence effect - Increase your pallet and generator breaking speed by 5%
- Blue - Decreases your terror radius by 10 meters and increases your Lunge duration by 0.2 seconds. Essence effect - Decreases your terror radius by 10%.
Addons
Brown
- Cursed branch: Start with 1 Green essence
- Blood stained cloth: Start with 1 Red essence
- Unopened letter: Start with 1 Blue essence
- Talisman: Slightly increases summoning speed (-0.25 seconds)
Yellow
- Alm of Haste: Moderately increases the absorption vault speed increase of green orbs. (+5% vault speed )
- Alm of Bloodlust: Moderately increases the absorption attack cooldown reduction of red orbs. (+12.5% attack cooldown decrease)
- Alm of Secrecy: Moderately increases the absorption lunge range increase of blue orbs. (+0.05 seconds lunge)
- Canvas Talisman: Moderately increases summoning speed. (-0.5 seconds)
- Decorated vial: Increase absorption duration by 10 seconds
Green
- Aged Alm of Haste: Increases the effect of green essence moderately. (+0.02 M/S haste)
- Aged Alm of Bloodlust: Increases the effect of red essence moderately. (+2.5% pallet breaking)
- Aged Alm of Secrecy: Increases the effect of blue essence moderately. (-5% TR)
- Rotten Talisman: Considerably increases summoning speed. (-0.75 seconds)
- Crystal necklace: Moderately increases all Absorption vault speed, attack cooldown and lunge duration effects.
Purple
- Rotted Alm: Moderately increases all essence effects.
- Cultist Robes: Orbs cost 1 less blood
- False Idol: start with 1 of each essence
- Sentimental Relic: The first time you absorb each color Orb all Survivors will receive the exposed status effect equal to it's duration and you will not receive it's essence afterwards.
Red
- Iridescent Alm: Each orb grants an additional essence. Reduces the Absorption duration by 15 seconds.
- Bloody Offering: Your first 3 orbs are free, tremendously increases summoning speed. (-1 second). Additional orbs will cost 1 more blood than normal.
Perks
- Ritual of sacrifice - You may kill 1/2/4 survivors who have been rescued from the hook after the summoning phase (Note: This only saves the time between picking them up and hooking them since they are dead on hook at this point)
- Hex: Devotion - Each hooked survivor increases your movement speed by 5%. This effect is persists for 5/10/15 seconds after the survivor is unhooked. These effects are disabled if the hex totem is broken
- Curse of solitude - A random survivor is the obsession. Anyone who does a cooperative or altruistic action with or on the obsession or has a cooperative or altruistic action done to them by the obsession gets exposed for 20 seconds. The obsession gets a 15/10/5% action speed bonus to non-altruistic non-repair actions preformed alone and an additional 5% bonus for each other dead survivor
Survivor Perks
- Hyper Sensitive - Pain fuels you. You gain an additional 50% speed when getting hit by the killer for 1/1.5/2 seconds
- Without a trace - You escape with nothing left from you. When the exit gates are powered you leave no scratch marks for 40/50/60 seconds.
- Fleet feet - You make your way around easily. While healthy and not in the killer's terror radius or in a chase you run 4%/5%/6% faster
Credit to @L3gi0nMa1n for most of the addons and @8obot1c for the Survivor perks
@NuclearBurrito said:
This was one of my older idea's and I thought I could execute it better now.
The Shadow
Movement speed: 4.6 (115%)
TR: 24 meters
Height: Medium
Power: Black Mist - The Killer emits a Mist inside of the inner half of the terror radius. This mist is opaque to Survivors outside of it. Survivors inside the mist have their screen go monochrome and cannot differentiate from inside and outside the mist. Additionally they will become Oblivious until they exit the Mist. The Mist will disappear when outside of the Killers Terror radius.
The Killer has 2 Abilities related to the Mist: Expanding the Mist, and Locking the Mist.
Expanding the Mist is channeling for up to 3 seconds, during the channel the Terror radius will increase by up to 100%. Afterwards the Terror radius will gradually fade back down to it's base level over 10 seconds.
Locking the Mist grants the Killer the Undetectable status, and drops an invisible decoy that continues emitting the Terror radius. if the Killer exits the Mist his movement speed becomes 4.4 M/S (110%) and he needs to be in the mist for 3 seconds to regain full movement speed. Exiting the decoy Terror radius entirely will cancel the lock. If the Mist was expanded locking the Mist will halt the Terror radius from decaying.
The Killer has a visual ring representing how far the Mist goes and where it is if it's locked.
Perks
- Creeping Dread - If a Survivor working on a Generator, sabotaging a hook or healing enters within 8 meters of you they will immediately receive a skill check. This can only activate on each Survivor once every 20/15/10 seconds.
- Twilight Approaches - Start the trial with 3 tokens. Consume a token every time you strike a healthy Survivor. At exactly 3 tokens: Instantly down the Survivor. At exactly 2 tokens: You suffer no successful attack cooldown. At exactly 1 token: You receive a 5% movement speed bonus for 20/25/30 seconds.
- Ravenous Hunter - Gain bloodlust 50/75/100% faster. Gain an additional 2% extra movement speed per tier of bloodlust.
Addons
Brown
- Survivors inside of the Mist are blinded
- Increases your maximum expanded Terror Radius by 25%
- Your expanded Terror radius takes 2 seconds longer to decay
- You do not emit a red stain
Yellow
- Increases your maximum expanded Terror Radius by 50%
- Your expanded Terror radius takes 3 seconds longer to decay
- Re-entering the Mist restores your movement speed 1 second faster
- You expand the mist 50% faster
- Negative status effects cannot be removed from Survivors while they are inside of the Mist (Deep Wounds doesn't count for this). Timers on negative status effects will be paused until they exit the mist.
Green
- Your expanded Terror radius takes 5 seconds longer to decay
- Re-entering the Mist restores your movement speed 2 seconds faster
- You expand the mist 100% faster
- Survivors that exit the Mist receive a 5% Hindered status effect for 10 seconds
- While outside of the Mist you are invisible to Survivors inside of the Mist
Purple
- While outside of the Mist you see the aura of Survivors inside of the Mist
- The Mist lingers for 5 seconds after leaving your terror radius
- Survivors inside of the Mist have their repair, sabotage, gate opening and repair speeds decreased by 50%
- You may exit your Decoys terror radius without unlocking the Mist
Red
- The Mist fills your entire Terror radius
- While there are no Survivor in the Mist and you are in the Mist move 10% faster. While there is at least 1 Survivor in the Mist and you are outside of the Mist move 10% faster. Otherwise move 5% slower.
Here are some of my better ones.
I have a lot more now though. I think I've made almost 20 of these now
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You can say this is a balance problem either way. But that should at least act as a workaround for the issue.
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As someone that plays plague here's how you deal with it:
At any given moment there are some number of infected Survivors and some number of corrupted fountains. In total there are 7 fountains so if all 7 are cleansed at then the reset occurs.
If all 4 Survivors are infected then they can each corrupt one fountain. They cannot corrupt more than one since only infected Survivors may cleanse themselves.
So all you have to do is make sure that if there are ever 3 or more corrupt fountains, you stop infecting Survivors and activate your corrupt purge. Keep doing this until you have exactly 2 corrupt fountains and then resume infecting the Survivors like normal until they cleanse again.
If they keep this up too often then you should get enough corrupt time in order to simply Kill them all. If you are unable to do this then you need to work on your aim most likely since corrupt purge is powerful enough to pull it off.
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Deja vu
- You see the aura of all generators. Any generators within 32/48/64 meters have their intensity altered based on how close they are to completion
There, fixed.
Detectives Hunch is currently better due to providing more information on gens while also providing information on both chests and totems, making it the best environmental tracking perk in the game. As such Small game also needs a buff (preferably to versatility) while Plunderer's instinct is validated by it's secondary effect of altering item quality.
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Double his reel speed. Cut the chain durability in half.
In terms of what hits he can or cannot get these 2 changes perfectly chancel out. However it means he gets those hits faster, and while this doesn't effect the 1v1 aspect it DOES effect the big picture 1v4 part of the game.
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1449066#Comment_1449066
Surge acts like a missed skillcheck. Therefore applying the 10% on top of the 8%.
No it doesn't. It just creates an explosion.
Explosions have nothing to do with regression as per the perk technician which negates the explosion but does nothing to the regression.
The 10% regression is exclusively tied to the actual act of a Survivor missing a skill check
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1448996#Comment_1448996
When a survivor misses a skillcheck it regresses 10% by default.
What's that got to do with surge?
Surge isn't a missed skillcheck.
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@Oicimau said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1448990#Comment_1448990
The GF insight was pretty good. Nice.
Oh yeah, on specifically Ghostface in particular the perk is unironically good. Not having to kick gens is extremely useful for keeping momentum and you almost always get the perk to proc after each down. I'll frequently end up using the perk immediately off cooldown without even trying.
Yes ruin exists, but if it gets cleansed you lose far too much momentum. Surge lets you keep that momentum more reliably.
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@CrowFoxy said:
Any killer who uses basic attacks to down survivors, it's a very good perk. It regresses the base ten percent and then eight percent, so 18% and that's PRETTY good.
As far as on killers like Billy, Huntress, and sometimes LF, it doesn't proc nearly as often and you won't wanna run it.
What base 10%?
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Surge is a niche perk balanced like a versatile one, which is to say it's given conditions appropriate for a medium high payoff, but the payoff is low by comparison.
The only Killer that I can think of that can make the perk truly good is Ghostface, because he can get the most out of the perk: His downs are staggered, sudden, near gens and are via-basic attacks. Too many conditions for the disproportionately weak effect, ghostface consistently meets every condition almost every time, but no other Killer does.
Killers that are slower at downing won't get value out of this perk because the Survivor will get away from the gen in time
Killers that are faster at downing will be heavily bottle-necked by the cooldown
And Killers that down with M2 can't use the perk at all regardless of downing speed
I want to see the cooldown and M1 requirements removed. Killers that are slow at downing still won't get value at the perk, making the perk a specialized snowball perk, which it kinda already is except it's conditions explicitly prevent use for snowballing.
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@BaroneMaximus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444626#Comment_1444626
Same as i did, i never had any problem with it, but still why not putting a limit to it? It's situational ok, but yet, isnt unbreakable situational? Isn't deliverance situational? Isnt adrenaline situational? and decisive? They are all situationals, but they are all a one time use perk with no side effects apart of their main one, then limiting soulgard too should be a thing
Other than Unbreakable none of those perks cause problems.
And the only reason Unbreakable does cause problems is because of its synergy with DS, on it's own the perk is fine.
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@ALostPuppy said:
Demo is really good, and he's fine the way he is. If you wanna change his perks and add-ons, sure, but his abilities don't need changing in the slightest. I don't want another buff/nerf situation like with the Billy one coming up where he gets a slightly faster chainsaw but also has a massive drawback that suddenly makes them really lame to play both as and against.
Billy's chainsaw speed isn't increasing.
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@BaroneMaximus said:
Unbreakable is limited to once per game and it only does THAT. How can you say that soulgard is balanced by being unlimited unbreakeble + borrowed time xD It makes NO sense xD
Unbreakable is one time use because it has no prerequisites or downsides and the faster recovery time is so significant that you almost never see anyone run soul guard and not Unbreakable.
Soul guard is unlimited use because it has both a prerequisite (you must become cursed) and an inherent downside (you are not allowed to cleanse the hex or allow another Survivor to cleanse the hex) AND it's secondary effect is more situational.
Remember that in order to get the perk to run you need a specific 4 perk set up where one of the perks is the Killers perk.
Specifically you need DS, Soul Guard, Unbreakable and the Hex.
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@Peanits said:
This would be pretty interesting to have, I can't see anything wrong with it. I'll let the team know!
I'm not sure how much assistance it would be in the meantime, maybe you've already figured out something, but I would suggest giving Spine Chill a try. It's not a perfect replacement, of course, since it does take a perk slot, but I've spoken to a few other deaf players and they have mentioned that it helps them a lot.
Some kind of visual que of when you are in the terror radius could also help, though it would need to be somewhat subtle so as not to break immersion.
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Ghostface Legion
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Something something DH OP
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Was there a Vod?
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Yes
@SnakeSound222 said:
Where’s the poll?
As for the topic, hell yes it needs to go. Everything about his rework needs to go except maybe the roar he makes when using his chainsaw. It’s hilarious.
As funny as it is, it also makes the apex muffler FAR less useful than it should be. So I'd remove it too, possibly as an effect of the muffler and keep it on basekit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Please no. Legion is irritating as hell to play against at the moment, and not because of strength. Free deep wounds is just not fun. Making them stronger would just make them get picked more, which would make me sad. They just need a rework.
Ok sure but presumably we'd want that rework to be stronger than he is currently
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@Kolonite said:
Myself
Too real man
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@Nickeh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1439836#Comment_1439836
Removing self care is honestly a buff for survivors as a whole. Every blendette will just bring a med kit instead of wasting endless time self caring in the corner.
Honestly everyone should bring a medkit. They are so good
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I disagree. You should always trust a Myers and tbag 2 feet away from them with all of your buddies. If you happen to be the obsession make sure to run in front of him a few times to enter and exit chase because... reasons.
Please do this every time, nothing will go wrong.
Definitely don't just want you to give me free kills.
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@Nickeh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1439807#Comment_1439807
People would still complain that you can't facecamp cages.
Well of course you can't. Pyramid Head doesn't even HAVE a face
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Wait I'm a genius.
Remove Generators, Hooks and the Bleedout timer.
Both escape and death are now impossible.
Unless you are playing as Pyramid Head. Then death is possible.
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DS, Scratchmarks, Moris
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@andre70x7 said:
So legions mending timer is completely unfair, but micheals evil within 3 one hit kill isn't? lmao.
Unironically yes.
Legions mend timer, given those changes, is unfair because it's free. Michael's T3 tombstone is not free in the slightest, even less free than regular T3 and has plenty of counterplay, thus it is fair.
And how does this effect gen rushing? Either the Survivor mends or they don't. If they do then they lose exactly 12 seconds of time, if they do then they are downed. So this change only effects Survivors in a chase with you, which is the Survivor that isn't currently doing the gen rush.
Like if you want to give him more chase power then sure, but this isn't a healthy way to go about it. The original legion was braindead easy for this exact reason. Yes he was still underpowered (baring franks mixtape), but that was incidental. The issue was how his power put a hard limit on chase times regardless of the skill of the Survivor OR the skill of the Legion.
Current Legion is still underpowered yes, but at least he doesn't have the issue of making skill irrelevant for both sides. If you are going to change him then you should do so in a way that doesn't bring back old problems.
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Here are some ways I'd like to see:
- Increase crouch MS to 4.0 M/S, she doesn't need to move so slow in stealth
- Ambush audio que is moved to the end of the channel. It's an AMBUSH, it's supposed to be a SURPRISE
- Instead of needing 1 key from 1/4 of the boxes, you need 2 keys and 3 of the 4 boxes have a key for your helmet. This makes it impossible for it to take 1 box or all 4 boxes. In the case of the box addons they add an empty box, and in the case of Amanda's letter both boxes will have a key.
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1439263#Comment_1439263
Well Im dumb. But it still doesnt last long at all.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1439267#Comment_1439267
For Legion, FF should last forever until you get a hit, it inflicts one normal damage state, and it can down again. Cancelling it early should also not inflict a stun.
Deathslinger needs his range buffed, his movement speed buffed, his instadown addon made base, and the ability to drag survivors over pallets at the cost of chain durability.
Wouldn't that Legion change completely remove his identity? He's supposed to be an anti-grouping specialist. Regardless of the mechanics used to emphasize it, the end result should be based around hitting several Survivors.
Also how is the Survivor supposed to counter it? Currently hitting someone with Legion in Frenzy is practically free, and the only hope you have as Survivor is either a stun, which is super hard because he respects the pallet, or forcing him to run out of time, which is impractical with his current numbers. This removes the second one entirely even if the Numbers were tweaked a lot.
Also the deathslinger thing is far too many buffs. Deep wounds is not core to his kit unlike with Legion. So the compensation buffs shouldn't be gigantic. I mean you just suggested increased movement speed AND hardcountering pallets in general AND a basekit instant down on a Killer with strong anti-loop even without any of the other changes. Calm down there.
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1439269#Comment_1439269
Endurance is a fairly strong effect, and you shouldnt be able to recover for free.
Yes but the timing is bad. You don't usually recover right in front of the Killer and the recovery isn't free.
BT is way less situational because you are more likely to be unhooked in front of the Killer than picked up in front of the Killer, so IT'S downside, post this change, makes sense. Soul guard is different, and while having deep wounds like now is fine, having BT's old effect would be underpowered.
Similarly to how it would be underpowered on current mettle of man.
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Also what would you do with Soul Guard? You already said to use BT's old system where it just downs you, but Soul Guard isn't as strong as BT so the same solution doesn't make as much sense there.
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So anyways, specifically what would you replace it with for Legion? And how would you buff deathslinger in compensation for it's removal? (or is this a deathslinger nerf?)
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1439242#Comment_1439242
Wow, less than 10 seconds of breathing room. Amazing.
12 seconds is less than 10 seconds? That's some funny math.
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@PleassBuiltInNoed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1438680#Comment_1438680
i mean honestly i dont get it why the aura is there in the first place, survivor just know that you are undetectable and will be more alert, its a ######### perk
if trail of torment requires counter balance than then same thing should be done for most survivor perks that literary have 0 dissadvantage
From talking to the devs it's the other way around. It's not that the effect demands a counter balance, but that the counter balance enables a larger effect.
That is to say, the downside is the part that is more central to the design than the effect it's acting as a downside for. Just like how the central concept of Object of Obsession is revealing your own aura to the Killer. Which is why they don't want to remove it.
So instead I'm trying to make it ACTUALLY strong enough for a downside to make sense.
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Note: According to the devs they do not want to remove the yellow aura effect because it's supposed to act as a counterbalance to allow the perk to have a larger duration. And thus if the perk needs a buff (it does) it would be the duration that would change
While that's fine by itself, 16 seconds is not a long enough duration for the justification to actually work and the aura right now doesn't have any interesting dynamic involved with it.
This change inherently increases the max duration while also giving a reason for the yellow aura to exist. The aura tells you a perk that you need to tap, and failure to do so gives the Killer a VERY long undetectable duration.
Strictly speaking you don't HAVE to tap the gen, so if the Killer camps the gen he needs to avoid getting spotted to get value, and would only get a single hit anyways, plus an ambush hit is the entire point of using an undetectable perk in the first place.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1438377#Comment_1438377
DS: is only a second chance if used with doors open... anything less is tunneled out
BT: like I said I MYSELF will hit the bt'd survivor... or I'm so far away from the hook that it doesn't matter..... OR if I realize what that survivor's doing I back off and wait
Unbreakable: My point being that you'd need a build around Unbreakable for Unbreakable to be a second chance... Unbreakable by itself isn't a second chance
DH: You dodge one attack at least then downed.... what second chance?
Adrenaline: still an end game perk... Timing is everything
For all of these perks whenever the perk happens to give value that value is in the form of an additional health state, aka: a second chance.
Why a perk gives a second chance doesn't change that it is one, it's not like a perk being balanced or well designed disqualifies it from being a second chance perk.
If we define Second chance perks as perks that increase the Number of hits required to hook a Survivor within a single set of consecutive chases (worded like that because each hit is considered by the game a separate chase) then the following perks are second chance perks/items:
- DS
- BT
- Mettle of Man
- Soul Guard
- Second Wind
- Adrenaline
- Medkit Septic
- Medkit Syringe
- Dead Hard
- Saboteur
- Breakout
- Flashlights
Deliverance is not a second chance perk because the effect is post hook and doesn't restore health states or block hits.
Unbreakable is not a second chance perk because it requires the Survivor to be untouched by the Killer for an extended period of time, making the resulting extra chase not consecutive with the original set of chases. Same reasoning applies to flip flop.
Healing perks in general are not second chance perks for the same reason, a period of not being chased is required to gain the heal.
Of these perks:
- Soul Guard
- Second Wind
- Adrenaline
- Saboteur
- Breakout
- Flashlights
Are all definitely balanced or underpowered, they are still second chances however. Mettle of man is definitely under-powered. Adrenaline in particular is a great baseline for how a second chance perk SHOULD be balanced:
- The perk is telegraphed (enduring doesn't tell the Killer before the hit, while healing does)
- The effect doesn't deny the value of future hits
- The payoff is in response to Survivor success
- The counterplay on the Killers end doesn't require a major playstyle change
- The effect is strong enough to justify it's one time use nature
- The effect is hard to stack with other similar effects
Endurance perks should have an effect that is visible to the Killer prior to them actually being hit
DS should be changed to not just stop Killer momentum in general and be more specialized
The Syringe is probably fine idk. Maybe have it apply the broken effect like Second Wind does as a telegraph? The actual effect itself of a delayed heal is fine tho.
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At least Monstrous Shrine can sometimes provide value on occasion