NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@HatchIsMyMercy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1566477#Comment_1566477
Actually prove thyself is bugged right now and it gets rid of most of it, but not all of it.
That's not a bug. It's just math.
15% boosted from 85% is not 100%, it's 97.7%
1*0.85*1.15 = 0.9775.
A % speed reduction is worth more than an identical % speed increase. Another example of this would be Sloppy Butcher vs Botany, both cards have identical absolute effects on the time it takes to heal, specifically 4 seconds. In fact both perks combined is still slower healing (16*0.8*1.33 = 17.02400)
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No. The whole point is to make it clear that by working with another Survivor their individual progress is being slowed down.
Since that interaction is unintuitive, it is especially important that it is made clear. More important than conveying that coop actions speed things up as a group.
Also, the look that "this is red and thus bad" is the correct one. You do not want to work on gens as a group for several reasons of which poor efficiency is one of many. So conveying this to noobs is the UI doing it's job well.
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Ok so there are a few things you need to do.
Step 1 is figure out that they have spine chill, or at least probably have spine chill.
You want to trust your instincts with this, but some clear signs are if they disappear before you get close with no scratchmarks.
Once you've established that you think a specific Survivor has spine chill there are 4 methods that can work, each exploiting one of the perks limitations or weaknesses. Use whichever method makes sense for the situation as not all of them work in all cases.
First is to focus on marking them from long range. On several maps you can see a gen from an elevated position, often from further than 36 meters away. That 4 meter gap is your chance to 99% them before you go in for the Kill.
Obviously this particular method presumes such an angle exists. Just look out for places to stalk from and if you can't find one oh well don't worry about it.
The second method is to mix up your approach locations. Spine chill tells them when you are coming, but not from where you are coming. Often this means trying to stalk from the outer edge of the map rather than from the middle or the side. They see spine chill light up and run off the gen and towards where you are hiding. Then you expose and down them.
The 3rd method is moonwalking. If you know where a Survivor is, for example because they keep working on the same gen, you can look away from them as you approach and then go for a standard M1.
The 4th and final method is to use Spine Chill against them as a pressure tool. Deliberately look at a gen you aren't approaching to scare any Survivors there off while you patrol other gens for Survivors without the perk. Then later you can ambush them for real once they've realized that the perk is lighting up even when you aren't coming.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1565668#Comment_1565668
I disagree. Buffing his chase is not good enough. I mentioned in my thread that Pyramid Head's ranged attack is just Shred that can hit through walls. After making the changes you suggested, the same thing is still true: Pyramid Head's ranged attack is just a Shred that can hit through walls. Pyramid Head will always be picked over Demogorgon unless Shred is buffed to insanely op levels. This leaves only the option of buffing things other than Shred.
No it's not. While they are comparable, Pyramid Heads is not a straight upgrade.
Pros for PH:
- Goes through walls
- Can move at 110% while held
Pros for Demogorgon:
- Can be charged twice as fast (usable after only 0.5 seconds instead of 1 second)
- Longer range (11 meters vs 8)
- Unreactable
- Shorter missed cooldown
- Faster catchup both on-hit and on-miss due to it being a mobility tool
- Breaks pallets
Of those benefits for Demogorgon, the unreactable part is the most important. While yes they can obviously make a play from when he starts charging, but once demo's power is charged the Survivor cannot react to him actually preforming the shred.
This means his power is a threat even if you aren't actually at a window or pallet yet, whereas Pyramid Heads attack is useless if the Survivor isn't in an animation due to how slow and telegraphed it is.
Demogorgon's shred being a movement ability rather than a ranged attack also matters, since if you attack a Survivor at range it covers the distance in addition to hitting them so you can get the 2nd hit faster. Pyramid Head however is very susceptible to a Survivor just holding W by comparison.
None of this is to say Demogorgons power is a straight upgrade and PH's advantages don't matter. Just that to say PH's power is a straight upgrade severely underestimates the importance of the details of shred and the importance of a power being reactable vs unreactable.
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@Fog_King said:
Teachables are unlocked because the player wanted it, so I don't see the need to disable them. Just don't buy them in the first place.
Not quite.
For example, take the Huntress.
All 3 of her teachables suck and I don't want any of them. As such I am now completely unable to level her up because my bloodweb contains her teachables and I'm forced to take one of them to get to the next level. I can't prestige her either to fix it because I'm not level 50 yet.
This is not a hypothetical, I'm literally stuck unable to level Huntress without getting one of her useless techables and would need to use this feature to fix the issue.
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No.
Not saying demogorgon doesn't need a buff, but I wouldn't support THIS buff.
Demogorgon isn't a hit and run Killer. So while this would certainly enable a different playstyle, it would not enhance his existing playstyle.
A more productive buff would be to make rat tail and rat liver basekit since those make his chase work and his portals almost twice as good, and then have deep wounds be one of the new addons effects
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Spirit requires a fundumentally different kind of skill compared to Nurse and Huntress.
She is an information denial Killer first and foremost, that means you need to be good at predictions and be good at saying somewhat unpredictable, with the former being more important for chases and the later being important for ambush hits you sometimes get. The chase usage being the most most important obviously.
Nurse is more about precision by comparison. She does also require predictions but not nearly as much
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@Valeficent said:
So is the list of addon reworks presentable now as a proper suggestion or does it still need some touching up(just asking since you’re the smart person and I’m the average person)?
Looks good unless you have some last minute ideas
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@Valeficent said:
Yeah, I was thinking that maybe successful shred attack recovery for the UR would be better(btw, the older idea for increased range had to do with how long you charged shred depending on how much you range you got so more time added to the total charge time would mean more distance), but I can see where you’re going since there are survivors who can easily bait shreds from even the most experienced Demo mains.
I think you misunderstand what I mean, and what I was asking about the OG idea.
With shred the distance you gain on a Survivor is a function of the time spent in shred, the speed of the shred, the time spent in fatigue and the speed of the fatigue. If you are chasing a Survivor in a straight line then by shreding you will reduce the distance by some amount after this entire process. Now in basekit or with only 1 CDR addon this distance is less than the distance you travel by just walking, so an attack that misses is losing you ground. WIth 2 CDR addons you travel SLIGHTLY further than if you walked, but it's still a hassle to spam shred everywhere.
Now, if Shred had almost NO cooldown, then the fundamental usage of the shred changes. You can still use it at loops like normal of course but with no cooldown it's a burst of movement speed in a straight line at any time. This drastically speeds up patrol times and similar to the new blight Killer can help you get around some loops better, although not quite like blight due to the way Shred's charging system works and how walls override CDR addons.
The CDR when you hit a Survivor isn't important for this. Once the Survivor is hit the payoff is already secured, no. The utility here is in how it means you can shred without ever having any intention of hitting anything in the first place. It's not about using shred to hit a Survivor, but about using shred to patrol the map, catch up to a Survivor holding W or get a cheeky hit at a straightaway into a sharp turn. Shred down the straight part and then turn to hit the Survivor that just turned.
And for the OG idea it's the same missunderstanding.
Distance is a function of time*speed. In order for the distance to be increased you must be increasing either the duration of the shred or the speed of the shred. It has nothing to do with charge time. The question is (or was anyways) if you were increasing the shred duration or the shred speed. As an example, Myers T3 has an extended duration on his lunge, and not a boosted lunge speed.
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Still much better again. But I have some nitpicks, 2 in particular.
- Having one addon deal with successful shred CDR is great, however having 2 that do that could be a problem depending on the numbers. While in theory that just means we have lower numbers, which is a perfectly valid solution so if that's what you are going with then ignore this, but it has the downside of meaning that the addons are individually weaker. That said the fact that the successful CDR is as a secondary effect means this isn't as problematic as it otherwise would be, so it would probably be fine I guess?
- Bigger deal, with the ultra rare. When I was using the idea of lowed MS and massively lowered missed shred attack CD, it was missed shred attack CD rather than successful attack CD for a reason. The idea was to have shred be a mobility tool with the addon since you'd have a near instant recovery. Now if you want the ultra rare to have something to do with spamming successful shreds instead then that's a perfectly valid and strong UR effect, but the 110% downside is tailored to a specific type of upside which this just isn't.
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Do keep in mind that this counterargument only applies to this specific type of argument, if you have an argument about why new ruins actual effect is stronger than old ruins then feel free to bring that up to discuss, but that's different than saying Survivor's willingness to counterplay the perk makes the perk stronger/weaker.
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By definition that means its weaker.
If a perk is causing the Survivor to change their actions in a way that makes the perk irrelevant then you just got max value out of the perk.
Like here's what I mean. Imagine you are a Survivor and new ruin is in play. Lets also say you are right and because of the insta-cleanse old ruin ends up being less impactful.
Here's the line of reasoning:
- Assume cleansing the totem ASAP no matter what is more effective than powering through the gen (as per this post)
- If I pretend I'm dealing with old ruin and act accordingly I will end up cleansing the totem just as quickly, since totem cleansing mechanics have not changed
- Thus, new ruin can be at best exactly as strong as a version of ruin that is the #1 priority to cleanse.
3 follows because the only reason to not prioritize totem cleansing is if premise 1 is false, and if premise 1 is false then by not prioritizing a totem hunt you are able to do better than not, which according to this post wasn't the case before.
Same reasoning applies to the Pig's ruleset number 1 btw. If it really did make RBT's weaker by making Survivors prioritize gens, then a Survivor could just pretend they were under ruleset number 1's effects and act accordingly, even though they aren't.
Even if some Survivors make the wrong choice for the wrong reasons, we don't evaluate perks with the premise of the Survivors we are facing being bad, because bad Survivors don't need good perks to be beaten in the first place.
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@Valeficent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1562816#Comment_1562816
Alrighty, the new list is up. Please check it out if you have the chance :)
Ok looked it over.
FIrst of all, regardless of anything else I say these are definitely better than both your previous iteration and the live addons. So nice work there.
That said there is something important to note.
Here all of the post your changes addons:
Common:
- Rotten Pumpkin - 1 portal
- Black Heart - on-hit blindness
- Candy Wrapper - 3 seconds aura reading on portal use
Uncommon:
- Viscous Webbing - KI boost and seal speed debuff
- Mews guts - 1 portal and missed shred CDR
Rare:
- Barbs Glasses - Portal MS buff and CDR
- Thorny Vines - On-hit undetectable
- Brass Case Lighter - Portal Obliviousness buff
- Life Guard Whistle - On-hit hindered (what magnitude?)
Very Rare:
- Elevens Soda can - Portal MS buff and CDR
- Upside Down Resin - Portal Apex Muffler
- Unknown egg - One of the 2 above addons?
- Red moss - Increased TP undetectable. Increased TP CD
Ultra Rare:
- Leprose Lichen - On-hit aura reading
- Mind Flayer Tentacle - Shred speed boost or duration boost (please specify which). Missed Shred CD increase
Do you see the problem here?
Common has 3 addons, Uncommon has only 2 and Rare has 4.
It should be 4,5,5,4,2. Meaning you removed more addons than you added.
Now that's not a big deal, especially since most of these addons are fine.
Though you do need to specify some things, like the numbers on Life Guard Whistle and the mechanism behind Mind Flayer Tentacles range increase (because range is not an independent variable you can increase in isolation), they are mostly good.
Some questionable things would be:
- Why rework Black heart? Missed shred CDR is a good effect for newer demo players and if combined with mew's guts the CDR is low enough to boost patrol times, so it's not useless to a vet either.
- Thorny Vines is much weaker than it looks on paper. Basically, the Undetectable status is very heavily based on timing in terms of if you get value out if it. The best timing is where you know where the Survivor is, they don't know where you are, and they don't know that you know. On-hit undetectable is inherently weak as a result of this. Billy's and Nurses addons get around this by being on high mobility Killers that can get out of sight quickly to make up for the bad timing and get value anyways. The perk Dark Devotion makes up for it with both further TR shenanigins to mess with their ability to realize it's active, it's long duration and the fact that it's a perk meaning you can just pair it with a high mobility Killer. This is none of those things, even if you TP it's not giving you value because TP undetectable is basekit. I'd rethink this one.
- Your Leprose Lichen rework is fine I guess? But it's kinda worse than the live one. Not in terms of raw power mind you, this is certainly useful. But in terms of a build around it's a bit worse. A red addon ideally will make you re-think how you play a certain Killer. Billy's new Apex Muffler iri is a great example of this, since it converts him into a psudo stealth Killer. Same goes for hag's iris. Now not every Killers iri is at this, but if we are making a rework for this stuff we may as well do it right. All of this applies to the other iri you suggested as well, although I do love the name.
- Not sure how Upside down raisen would work exactly. You are undetectable while tping, so wouldn't that must make it always silent?
So that said, here's what I suggest. Any addons I do not mention I simply do not think need further changes.
- Black Heart stays the same as live. The effect is put on a new addon instead since on-hit blindness is a perfectly valid effect
- New uncommon that grants on-hit mangled until healed
- New uncommon that has live lifeguard whistles effect
- New rare that makes all portals immediately activated when placed
- Thorny Vines maintains it's live effects but gets higher numbers. 2 addons in the niche is fine it's just that we have 4 right now and that's a bit much.
- New rarethat reduces the SUCCESSFUL on-hit CDR by 20%
- On-hit aura reading moved to the Unidentified egg. It's a cool idea but it's more of a very rare than an ultra rare
- Leprose Lichen keeps its current effect, but the aura reading lingers for 5 seconds and it additionally grants on-shred broken for 60 seconds.
- Mind Flayer Tentacle (such a great name) really should do something else. Like, more range sounds cool and all, but range isn't a big limiting factor when your playing demogorgon anyways? Anyways a addon that sounds this cool should totally do something big. Like imagine if it made him 110% but gave him MASSIVE shred CDR? Like I'm talking 90% kind of massive. Or what if you could teleport to portals without an entrance portal, but once used the portal is removed? Something like that, go nuts.
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Just to go over his existing addons:
The Demogorgon has 7 sets of generic addons, some of which overlap, that is to say there are 8 groups of addons that share an effect niche.
- Portal count (2 addons)
- Shred cooldown (2 addons)
- KI range (2 addons)
- Sealing time (3 addons)
- Upside down MS (2 addons)
- Upside down cooldown (3 addons)
- Status effects (2 addons)
- Undetectable (3 addons)
This leaves only 3 addons total, 2 brown and 1 iridescent, that have wholly unique effects.
Now, while we do want to trim these down a bit so we can have more unique addons like what this thread is about, not all of these are bad.
In particular the Portal Count, Shred cooldown and Status effect addons are all ok (although the status effect addons are the wrong rarities)
Upside down MS and cooldown is valid but has too many addons based around it. I think it should be pared down to be one of each plus a higher tier combo addon for 3 total instead of 5.
Specifically Rat Liver is too big of a powerspike for an addon, but is also pretty much required for a lot of the demogorgons chase tactics. And thus should be basekit.
Undetectable is also overdone rather than useless. I'd remove the green and purple ones and make the iri a purple with a lowered CD penalty.
As for the KI range and Sealing time addons. We don't need Ki range addons at all and Sealing time only needs 2 addons.
So that leaves 7 addons that need reworking. Before you say anything, Leprose needs a buff but doesn't need a rework. Either some kind of anti-heal effect along side it or it just needs the aura reading to linger, or both.
Some unexplored effects:
- Shred on-hit status effects (anti-heal statuses would go here and not with the portals)
- Something to make portals start active (probably a Rat Liver replacement)
- Quieter teleporting (makes the global TP sound not global)
- A handful of different aura reading shenanigans
- Buffs to the portals oblivious effect (imagine a portal giving a Survivor 20 seconds of oblivious when they come near)
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@Valeficent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1562744#Comment_1562744
Following what you and Truth said, I will make some modifications to my ideas and hope that they will be more "appealing" than the current ones that I have posted.
If it helps, hindered while in portal range (not just on a break) and aura reading on fully charged shred are cool.
Thing is though, I'd make it hindered when they start trying to seal a portal that lingers when they stop, even if they didn't fully seal the portal. Thus it rewards you for interrupting portal sealing.
And then have the aura reading be 8 meters with no downside like bubbas.
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You have 2 add-ons here that implicitly injure the Survivor and 2 that explicitly allow for instant downs.
That kind of power spike is what makes 1 ######### Hatchets busted. Do not use add-ons to give Killers instant downs!
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@Opex said:
I hope you know that spirit came out 2 years ago right? Doctor and freddy are even older and up to 3 years in the game. How are these killers new?
Can't speak for Spirit, because she doesn't belong on a list of recent Killers. But Freddy and Doctor had major reworks relatively recently.
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Do remember that the odds of escaping are MUCH higher than the odds of a single escape attempt succeeding.
For example, right now with 4% odds that means a given attempt of failing is 96%.
Since you need to fail to escape 3 times in a row to actually not escape, that means the odds are 0.96^3, that is 88.4736% or 0.11.5264%. So about 1 in 10ish
Now if we bump this up to 20% and repeat the proccess:
0.8^3 = 51.2% or a 48.8% odds of escaping.
But either way it really doesn't matter, because in trying to solve one problem you make an entirely different problem much worse, specifically the fact that the whole point of hooking in the first place was to force a save to create pressure and momentum. Self unhooks undermine this and destroy the Killers pressure which is a major balance issue.
With this in mind even 4% is too much, but at least here it's low enough that people won't actually be attempting a kobe very often except as a last resort and thus it's not as problematic as it mathematically should be. With 20% this is not the case.
In the case of Deliverance you still need to be getting unhooks and in the case of luck builds they have extreme opportunity costs. But basekit kobies are a bigger problem than lazy teammates.
Especially because Survivors that are suicidally unhook happy is much more common than Survivors that ignore unhooking entirely.
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@Jed_Olsen said:
Considering how quick GF can expose someone I think if a survivor is in the process of snapping him out he should not be able to stalk that survivor. Like the other day I was teabag stalking a survivor, I'd pop my head up and stalk until they were exposed and there was nothing they could do even though they were triggering the snap out audio cues, that is stupidly broken
Also I don't think he should be able to 99 people it should regress slowly over time.
It used to work like that and he was so weak they had to do a emergency hotfix buff on the ptb so people could sometimes get value out of his stalk.
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What the hell is taking him 50 seconds to expose you!?
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There is also the simple question of how does this Killer get downs exactly?
Wound in the Soul applies broken which sure that helps, but it doesn't down someone by itself, neither does tracking. And even if it did it's on a 2 minute cooldown so it's not exactly reliable.
Like Plague can break Survivors with no cooldown but still needed a free 60 seconds of super huntress mode to capitalize with before she became good and that's with good tracking that also has no cooldown.
And Legion is a similar deal. Getting free injures just doesn't cut it as a power.
So he breaks Survivors, can track them a bit better and has some stall through the Piller mechanic. Don't think of that as an actual I'm going to kill the Survivor mechanic, pig traps almost never kill so I see no reason to expect this one to kill either.
Wouldn't I just play doctor? His power has half the cooldown on his tracking power and has actual anti-loop, plus his stall doesn't have any cooldown either.
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Ok so some things I need to know:
- What IS the charged power exactly? I know the payoff but not the method of getting the payoff
- So does call if the shadows have a range limit? Like as in does it just always work so long as at least 1 Survivor has the Wound in the Soul status (that really needs a shorter name. I'm just going to call it wounded soul for now) or does the Survivor need to be nearby to reveal everyone or something?
- Does the Wound in the soul power go on cooldown if the Survivor is successfully hit?
- How many Pillers of Light are there on the map?
- How long does it take to cleanse at a Piller?
- What information do players get on the Pillers? As in does anyone see the aura of the Pillers and if so under what conditions if any?
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I can only see it on indoor maps or with bloodhound
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Death premonition needs a higher magnitude to be useful. I'd double it's numbers
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Very few slowdown perks stack anyways and none of them have a synergy.
Heck, the only perks that explicitly and directly increase the time it takes to complete a gen are thanataphpbia and dying light. The rest either regress or block gens instead.
Gen regression doesn't stack and is temporarily halted with blocked gens, so on a fundamental level the only gen stall perks that could properly stack even in principle are those 2.
Dying light and thanataphobia have direct anti-synergy due to Dying Lights heal speed bonus on the obsession. So they don't stack well.
So that just leaves those 2 perks being stacked with one of the regression or blocking perks. And neither dying light nor thanataphobia has high enough numbers for that to be a problem.
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Desperate Measures is not a second chance perk, it's an altruism perk.
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Define problem
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Missing an option.
Thrilling Tremors needs a cooldown due to it's accelerating returns if hypothetically it could be chained back to back.
Surge however has diminishing returns when used back to back, and thus does not need a cooldown.
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Nope. Lethal rush's followup attack is not a basic attack unfortunately.
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@Buttercake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1554184#Comment_1554184
But they promised they'd never bring that up! 😩
Doesn't stop them from being disappointed
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@RizeAki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1553173#Comment_1553173
So do a lot of survivor perks that if stacked exceed Thanataphobia numbers and that’s only needing one person to do it and can be stacked to be even higher add those with this perk boom your basically never injured
There are only 3 Survivor perks that effect generator speed:
Resiliance, Prove Thyself and Spine Chill.
Spine Chill's timing is awful for gen rushing so it isn't worth talking about in this context
Resiliance doesn't have high enough numbers for this argument to work.
While Prove Thyself DOES have big enough numbers, it's also always accompanied by an even bigger basekit gen slowdown effect that cancels it out and then some. So you can't actually use the perk to complete gens faster than is already optimal.
That said, thana could totally work at 5%, maybe even 6%. Definitely not more than that.
Either way, THIS perk, desperate measures that is, effects exclusively heal speed.
Heal speed increase perks on Survivors are worse than heal speed slowdown perks on Killers, let alone gen speed slowdown perks. Simply because the Killer controls when it is best to heal or not, meaning that Killer anti-heal perks are inherently more consistently useful than Survivor healing perks in general.
Additionally, a % slowdown is worth more than an equal % speedup. On healing a 33% slowdown is 8 seconds wasted (16/0.666... = 24) while a 33% speedup is 4 seconds saved (16/1.333.... = 12), and if stacked it's still a 2 second stall (16/0.666..../1.333... = 18).
Remember, Sloppy butcher makes a heal take 20 seconds. While botany indeed makes a heal take 12 seconds. This is the exact same slowdown magnitude, yet sloppy is 20% while botany is 33%.
In this case we are comparing thanataphobia to Desperate measures. For all of the above reasons we should expect Desperate Measures to have a massively bigger impact on healing compared to thana.
So thana at 4 stacks is 16%. That's a 19 second heal for 3 seconds stalled. Desperate measures is a 10.25 second heal for 5.75 seconds saved. That is only a 2.75 second difference on a perk that does half as much and is inherently less reliable because of what I said about healing perks in general earlier.
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@bm33 said:
Wonder if this is why so many bugs are missed during the PTB. 😬
almost certainly for a lot of them
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@AvisDeene said:
If you think you can do better, please share your ideas for new Killers and powers that aren’t over powered and are fair for Survivors to face.
I accept your challenge in OP's stead. Here's 5:
@NuclearBurrito said:
Another take at one of my older Killer ideas. Specifically a werewolf Killer.
The Wolf
Terror Radius: 0/40
Movement Speed: 4.4/4.8 (110%/120%)
Power: Unholy Curse - You have 2 forms, Human form and Wolf form which each have unique effects. You start the trial in human form and can transform by holding M2 for 2 seconds, you move at 3 M/S (75%) during the channel and there will be a directional audio que when transforming into a wolf in the form of a howl. Transforming into a human has a non-directional global transformation sound.
Human Form:
- You are passively undetectable and move at a reduced speed at 4.4 M/S (110%)
- Basic attacks on Survivors will apply the tainted status effect, which lasts until it is manually removed (more on that) or until they are downed.
- Downing a tainted Survivor grants a Beast token, powering up the wolf form and consumes the taint. You may have a maximum of 3 Beast tokens which last for the entire trial.
Note: On injured Survivors, taint is applied BEFORE the down. Meaning a tainted injured Survivor will be untainted after giving the token, and an untainted injured Survivor will give a token after being downed in human form.
Wolf Form:
- You have an increased terror radius (40 meters) and an increased movement speed of 4.8 M/S (120%)
- Tainted Survivors within your terror radius are considered "Feared" which has effects depending on how many beast tokens you have and your addons.
- You must have at least 1 Beast token to transform and gain bonuses depending on the number of tokens you have. The effects of Beast tokens are the following:
- 1 Token: You may transform into wolf form. Feared Survivors cry out as if injured
- 2 Tokens: You have an extended lunge range (same as T3 Myers)
- 3 Tokens: You see the aura of Survivors that become feared for 5 seconds
Prayer Statues:
- 3 Prayer Statues will spawn around the map.
- Survivors may pray at a prayer statue for 10 seconds to remove the tainted status effect.
- After a Survivor plays at a statue, the statue goes dark and is disabled for 60 seconds
Perks
- Mark of the Beast - Survivors you hit with a basic attack become marked. The next time they attempt to heal, repair, open an exit gate, open a chest, break a totem or sabotage a hook they will scream revealing their aura for 3/4/5 seconds and consuming the mark.
- Hex: Decay - After a Survivor has vaulted over the same pallet 4/3/2 times it will instantly break. This effect is disabled once the Hex totem is cleansed
- Hidden Rage - If you hit a Survivor with a basic attack within 5 seconds of them entering your terror radius this perk activates. Your next pallet break or vault action within 20/25/30 seconds will be preformed 100% faster.
Addons
Brown
- Increase the lockout duration of prayer statues (by 10 seconds)
- The howl when turning into a wolf is non-directional
- You transform from wolf form into human form 0.5 seconds faster
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 1 second
Yellow
- Increase the lockout duration of prayer statues (by 15 seconds)
- You can see the aura of Prayer Statues within 24 meters
- Decrease time to transform into Wolf form by 0.3 seconds
- Feared Survivors have a 5% reduced action speed
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 2 seconds
Green
- Decrease time to transform into Wolf form by 0.5 seconds
- Feared Survivors have a 10% reduced action speed
- Feared Survivors are 50% louder
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 2 seconds)
- Increase the aura reveal duration of feared Survivors by 3 seconds
Purple
- The first time you down a tainted Survivor, gain an additional beast token
- 1 less Prayer Statue spawns
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 4 seconds)
- Each beast token increases your terror radius by 4 meters while in Wolf form
Red
- You start the trial with a beast token
- You may obtain up to 4 beast tokens. The 4th beast tokens causes feared Survivors to have the exposed effect
Note: The aura of Prayer Statues are NOT revealed to anyone. They are considered to be Killer Belongings for the purposes of perks and items.
@NuclearBurrito said:
The Acolyte
Lore - A loyal worshiper of the Entity even before being pulled into the fog the Acolyte is very used to making sacrifices.
Weapon - Ornamental Dagger + Blood vial (when hitting a survivor he has an animation of the blood dripping into a vial
Movement Speed - 115%
Terror Radius - 32 meters
Height - ShortPower: Blood Ritual - Every time the Acolyte hits a survivor he gains a blood token. He can channel M2 (2 seconds) to expend 2 tokens in order to call upon the entity's favor giving him a choice of 3 essence orbs: Green, Red and Blue which can be selected from simply by looking at the appropriate orb and pressing M1.
Once an Orb is obtained pressing M2 again will consume the currently held orb which will grant you a temporary Absorption buff depending on the color of the Orb used for 20 seconds and then a permanent Essence buff also dependent on the color when the duration runs out. Each Essence buff may be collected multiple times and stacks with itself indefinitely.
The effects are:
- Green - Increase your movement speed by 0.2 M/S and your vault speed by 20%. Essence effect - Increase your movement speed by 0.04 M/S
- Red - Increases your pallet and generator breaking speed by 25% and decreases your Successful Attack recovery by 50%. Essence effect - Increase your pallet and generator breaking speed by 5%
- Blue - Decreases your terror radius by 10 meters and increases your Lunge duration by 0.2 seconds. Essence effect - Decreases your terror radius by 10%.
Addons
Brown
- Cursed branch: Start with 1 Green essence
- Blood stained cloth: Start with 1 Red essence
- Unopened letter: Start with 1 Blue essence
- Talisman: Slightly increases summoning speed (-0.25 seconds)
Yellow
- Alm of Haste: Moderately increases the absorption vault speed increase of green orbs. (+5% vault speed )
- Alm of Bloodlust: Moderately increases the absorption attack cooldown reduction of red orbs. (+12.5% attack cooldown decrease)
- Alm of Secrecy: Moderately increases the absorption lunge range increase of blue orbs. (+0.05 seconds lunge)
- Canvas Talisman: Moderately increases summoning speed. (-0.5 seconds)
- Decorated vial: Increase absorption duration by 10 seconds
Green
- Aged Alm of Haste: Increases the effect of green essence moderately. (+0.02 M/S haste)
- Aged Alm of Bloodlust: Increases the effect of red essence moderately. (+2.5% pallet breaking)
- Aged Alm of Secrecy: Increases the effect of blue essence moderately. (-5% TR)
- Rotten Talisman: Considerably increases summoning speed. (-0.75 seconds)
- Crystal necklace: Moderately increases all Absorption vault speed, attack cooldown and lunge duration effects.
Purple
- Rotted Alm: Moderately increases all essence effects.
- Cultist Robes: Orbs cost 1 less blood
- False Idol: start with 1 of each essence
- Sentimental Relic: The first time you absorb each color Orb all Survivors will receive the exposed status effect equal to it's duration and you will not receive it's essence afterwards.
Red
- Iridescent Alm: Each orb grants an additional essence. Reduces the Absorption duration by 15 seconds.
- Bloody Offering: Your first 3 orbs are free, tremendously increases summoning speed. (-1 second). Additional orbs will cost 1 more blood than normal.
Perks
- Ritual of sacrifice - You may kill 1/2/4 survivors who have been rescued from the hook after the summoning phase (Note: This only saves the time between picking them up and hooking them since they are dead on hook at this point)
- Hex: Devotion - Each hooked survivor increases your movement speed by 5%. This effect is persists for 5/10/15 seconds after the survivor is unhooked. These effects are disabled if the hex totem is broken
- Curse of solitude - A random survivor is the obsession. Anyone who does a cooperative or altruistic action with or on the obsession or has a cooperative or altruistic action done to them by the obsession gets exposed for 20 seconds. The obsession gets a 15/10/5% action speed bonus to non-altruistic non-repair actions preformed alone and an additional 5% bonus for each other dead survivor
Survivor Perks
- Hyper Sensitive - Pain fuels you. You gain an additional 50% speed when getting hit by the killer for 1/1.5/2 seconds
- Without a trace - You escape with nothing left from you. When the exit gates are powered you leave no scratch marks for 40/50/60 seconds.
- Fleet feet - You make your way around easily. While healthy and not in the killer's terror radius or in a chase you run 4%/5%/6% faster
Credit to @L3gi0nMa1n for most of the addons and @8obot1c for the Survivor perks
@NuclearBurrito said:
The shinigami
Movement Speed: 4.2 M/S (105%)
TR: 20 meters
Height: Small
Power: Mark of Death - Preform a 2 second channel while looking at a Survivor within 12 meters to apply an Omen on the target. You and the Survivor are both rooted for the duration of the channel and cannot move.
While effected by an Omen the Survivor is oblivious and their aura is revealed to all players. In order to remove an Omen a Survivor must find another Survivor and have them preform an 8 second channel. Additional Survivors can speed up this channel (8 seconds for 1 Survivor, 4 seconds for 2 Survivors and 2 seconds for 3 Survivors). The channel does not need to be preformed all at once.
Every second your movement speed increases by 0.04 M/S up to a maximum of 0.6 per Survivor with an Omen. This movement speed is temporarily disabled while a Survivor is inside your terror radius. (Note that Survivors with Omen's are Oblivious and thus are never considered within your TR)
Striking a healthy Survivor inflicted by an Omen removes the Omen and makes the Survivor marked for death. A Survivor that is Marked for death does not leave scratch marks or blood marks, their aura will still be revealed to other Survivors but will turn white to signal that they are marked and they recieve a 50% movement speed increase that decays over 10 seconds. At the end of the 10 seconds the Survivor is downed. (Note: the Killer isn't given a notification of where they fall)
For 30 seconds after inflicting a Mark of Death you will be given the blindness effect. This will only prevent you from seeing Survivor aura's.
There is no escaping the Mark of Death. Those marked WILL go down.
Perks
- Show of Futility - For the first 10/20/30 seconds after a Generators starts to regress it will regress 300% faster (1 charge per second up from 0.25). Afterwards it will stop regressing.
- The Lonely path - The Obsession receives the hindered status effect when within 8 meters of another Survivor slowing their movement speed by 5%. This effect lingers for 15/20/25 seconds after leaving the Survivor
- Trail of Body's - Whenever you hook a Survivor gain a token up to a maximum of 4/5/6. Whenever you down a Survivor gain the undetectable status effect for 5 seconds per token up to a maximum of 20/25/30 seconds.
Addons
Names pending. Please give suggestions
Brown
- Decrease omen application time by 1 second
- Increase omen application range by 2 meters
- Increase time to remove an omen by 1 second
- Survivors with an omen are inflicted with blindness
Yellow
- Increase time to remove an omen by 2 seconds
- Marked Survivors gain a 10% smaller speed boost (down to 40%)
- Marked Survivors are downed 2 seconds sooner
- Increases the rate at which you accumulate movement speed by 50% (0.02 M/S/S)
- Decreases post mark blinded duration by 5 seconds
Green
- Marked Survivors gain a 15% smaller speed boost (down to 35%)
- Marked Survivors are downed 3 seconds sooner
- Increases the rate at which you accumulate movement speed by 100% (0.04 M/S/S)
- Decreases post mark blinded duration by 10 seconds
- Each Omen increases your maximum movement speed bonus by an additional 0.2 M/S (5%)
Purple
- Each Omen also decreases your Terror radius by 4 meters
- When a Marked Survivor is downed all Survivors with Omens scream
- Survivors in your terror radius no longer disable your movement speed. Each Omen increases your maximum movement speed by 0.4 M/S less (10%)
- Survivors outside of your terror radius have their action speeds reduced by 5% for each Omen
Red
- You may see blood and scratchmarks from marked Survivors. When a marked Survivor is downed the nearest Survivor screams.
- Increases your base movement speed by 5%. You no longer see the aura's of Survivors with Omens. Applying an Omen or a Mark reveals the aura of all Survivors outside of your terror radius for 10 seconds.
@NuclearBurrito said:
This was one of my older idea's and I thought I could execute it better now.
The Shadow
Movement speed: 4.6 (115%)
TR: 24 meters
Height: Medium
Power: Black Mist - The Killer emits a Mist inside of the inner half of the terror radius. This mist is opaque to Survivors outside of it. Survivors inside the mist have their screen go monochrome and cannot differentiate from inside and outside the mist. Additionally they will become Oblivious until they exit the Mist. The Mist will disappear when outside of the Killers Terror radius.
The Killer has 2 Abilities related to the Mist: Expanding the Mist, and Locking the Mist.
Expanding the Mist is channeling for up to 3 seconds, during the channel the Terror radius will increase by up to 100%. Afterwards the Terror radius will gradually fade back down to it's base level over 10 seconds.
Locking the Mist grants the Killer the Undetectable status, and drops an invisible decoy that continues emitting the Terror radius. if the Killer exits the Mist his movement speed becomes 4.4 M/S (110%) and he needs to be in the mist for 3 seconds to regain full movement speed. Exiting the decoy Terror radius entirely will cancel the lock. If the Mist was expanded locking the Mist will halt the Terror radius from decaying.
The Killer has a visual ring representing how far the Mist goes and where it is if it's locked.
Perks
- Creeping Dread - If a Survivor working on a Generator, sabotaging a hook or healing enters within 8 meters of you they will immediately receive a skill check. This can only activate on each Survivor once every 20/15/10 seconds.
- Twilight Approaches - Start the trial with 3 tokens. Consume a token every time you strike a healthy Survivor. At exactly 3 tokens: Instantly down the Survivor. At exactly 2 tokens: You suffer no successful attack cooldown. At exactly 1 token: You receive a 5% movement speed bonus for 20/25/30 seconds.
- Ravenous Hunter - Gain bloodlust 50/75/100% faster. Gain an additional 2% extra movement speed per tier of bloodlust.
Addons
Brown
- Survivors inside of the Mist are blinded
- Increases your maximum expanded Terror Radius by 25%
- Your expanded Terror radius takes 2 seconds longer to decay
- You do not emit a red stain
Yellow
- Increases your maximum expanded Terror Radius by 50%
- Your expanded Terror radius takes 3 seconds longer to decay
- Re-entering the Mist restores your movement speed 1 second faster
- You expand the mist 50% faster
- Negative status effects cannot be removed from Survivors while they are inside of the Mist (Deep Wounds doesn't count for this). Timers on negative status effects will be paused until they exit the mist.
Green
- Your expanded Terror radius takes 5 seconds longer to decay
- Re-entering the Mist restores your movement speed 2 seconds faster
- You expand the mist 100% faster
- Survivors that exit the Mist receive a 5% Hindered status effect for 10 seconds
- While outside of the Mist you are invisible to Survivors inside of the Mist
Purple
- While outside of the Mist you see the aura of Survivors inside of the Mist
- The Mist lingers for 5 seconds after leaving your terror radius
- Survivors inside of the Mist have their repair, sabotage, gate opening and repair speeds decreased by 50%
- You may exit your Decoys terror radius without unlocking the Mist
Red
- The Mist fills your entire Terror radius
- While there are no Survivor in the Mist and you are in the Mist move 10% faster. While there is at least 1 Survivor in the Mist and you are outside of the Mist move 10% faster. Otherwise move 5% slower.
@NuclearBurrito said:
The Slayer
When you are playing him he carries 2 daggers, the left one is for his power and the right one is for basic attacks. They would be ornate and look identical.
Movement Speed: 4.6 M/S (115%)
Terror Radius: 32 Meters
Power: Living Weapon - You may drop one of your daggers on the ground, marking the spot it lands on. While the dagger is not in your possession, Survivors that ever come within 2 meters of the dagger for any reason are revealed by Killer Instinct for 3 seconds. Dropping your dagger does not slow you down.
Warp - Using the power button again will cause you to instantly teleport to the dropped dagger, gaining the undetectable status for 2 seconds on arrival. Once there you will instantly pick the dagger back up.
Recall - Using the secondary power button while the dagger is dropped while preform a channel, after the channel is complete the dagger will return to you damaging any Survivors in it's path. The channel time depends on your distance from the dagger, increasing by 0.1 seconds for every meter from the dagger up to a maximum of 2 seconds. During the channel you move at 3 M/S (75% MS) and there will be a red line connecting you and the dagger visible to all players.
Perks
- Relentless Pursuit - Whenever a Survivor within 40 meters of you is damaged gain 10% increased movement speed for 2/3/4 seconds
- Syphon - Every 4/3/2 times you hook a Survivor, gain 1% bonus movement speed for the rest of the trial
- Dissassosiation - For every Survivor in the injured, dying or hooked state your terror radius is reduced by 2/2.5/3 meters
Addons
Brown
- Survivors hit by recall are blinded for 60 seconds
- Reduces the recall channel cap by 0.3 seconds
- Replaces the Killer instinct effect with aura reading (still works with the appropriate Killer Instinct addons)
- Increases the undetectable duration on warp by 0.5 seconds
Yellow
- Survivors hit by recall are mangled until healed
- Reduces the recall channel cap by 0.4 seconds
- Increases the undetectable duration on warp by 1 second
- Increases the Killer instinct detection range by 1 meter and the duration by 1 second
- The Dropped dagger becomes invisible to Survivors
Green
- Reduces the recall channel cap by 0.5 seconds
- Increases the Killer instinct detection range by 3 meters
- Survivors effected by Killer instinct are inflicted with a 5% hindered status effect for the duration
- Survivors hit by recall are broken for 45 seconds
- After completing a recall all Survivors currently in your terror radius are inflicted with the Oblivious status effect for 30 seconds
Purple
- After dropping the dagger gain the Undetectable status effect for 10 seconds
- For the first 0.5 seconds of the recall channel the red line is invisible for Survivors
- Increases the Killer instinct duration by 5 seconds
- Removes the recall channel. Instead recall causes the dropped dagger to instantly start to come back to you as a projectile moving at 20 M/S. The red line still connects you and the dagger as it moves
Red
- Warping causes you to swap places with the dropped dagger instead of picking it up. Increases the duration of the undetectable status by 6 seconds on warping. Decreases your movement speed by 0.2 M/S for 3 seconds after warping. You cannot recall the dagger.
- After dropping the dagger gain 10% haste for 5 seconds
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I will say that Demogorgon, Plague and Pyramid head don't play like any other Killer.
Deathslinger and Oni not so much.
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@Dehitay said:
Nah, it's even worse than that. They're all just the original Trapper but with small tweaks.
Wraith is just Trapper but without the traps and the ability to go invisible
Hillbilly is just Trapper but without the traps and the ability to go fast and insta down
Nurse is just Trapper but without the traps and the ability to teleport through objects.
Huntress is just Trapper but without the traps and a ranged attack
Meh, all killers are the same.
Pig is just trapper but she cuts out the middle man and puts the traps directly on the Survivors
Trapper is just trapper but without the traps except he actually does have 1 trap but he tripped and dropped the rest all over the place and has to go pick them back up but he also may or may not have dropped his bag so that's kinda sad too
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Yes and yes
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@CalamityJane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551843#Comment_1551843
Which is permanent on anyone for the entire time they're cleansing a totem, including dulls. The issue isn't walking past a totem, it's that you have to cleanse ruin up to 4 times and every time you are cleansing it the killer sees you.
Which is the appropriate value of a hex perk
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@Pryzm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551298#Comment_1551298
Yes, three transfers. The aura site is too much though. Even dull totems get aura site. A bit much, especially for solo que.
It's only 2 meters calm down
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@SirCracken said:
It might be possible to injure them in the bubble with ranged killers. But they still can't be picked up unless you're playing Deathslinger.
Pick up? Who said anything about that?
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How about you use your Pyramid Head to haunt them so you can hit them through the bubble.
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Not quite and for a few reasons:
Wanting to heal or not as a Survivor is situational. So a healing build is inherently hit or miss simply because there are a lot of Killers where you won't care about healing in the first place. It also depends on the Killers playstyle, since if the Killer always commits to his chases then the Survivor can't heal except under hooks.
That said, the situations where a Survivor wants to heal or not is dependent on what the Killer does. So the Survivor doesn't know how much he needs to heal before the match has already started, meanwhile the Killer knows EXACTLY how much the Survivors want to heal in advance, since they are the determining factor.
For example, if the Killer is ghostface then you as a Survivor would love to have Botany. But if you are facing Bubba then you wouldn't. And if you are facing plague then the perk is completely useless.
But the Killer knows who he is. So this isn't a factor. Ghostface will use sloppy and bubba and plague won't.
The other thing to consider is the existance of the perk We'll Make It, which completely outclasses botany due to it's amazing timing combined with it's high numbers. So when you would run botany you usually instead just run We'll Make It. Sloppy has no such alternative, the closest being claurophobia but it doesn't have the amazing timing that We'll Make it does so it fails.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1550115#Comment_1550115
Sums up my thoughts for the most part as well.
"In general all killer perks suffer from same problem they got too many drawback."
This is the main point here. Between killers and killer perks these days they just stack piles and piles of negatives, drawbacks, counters and downsides on top of a mediocre effect.
For one example, I'd say at least 90% of the killer perks that have cooldowns could completely have them removed and none of them would be overpowered.
We could even apply this sentiment to a lot of killer addons as well, where they put downsides that are so harsh it ends up making it worse than the benefit it gives.
The general level of balance they seem to aim for is around rank 10 which leaves them all being extremely underwhelming when taken into a high rank game with actually good survivors that are trying to win.
Just for fun here is every Killer perk in the game with a cooldown:
- Make your choice: 40/50/60 second cooldown from the unhook - Justified due to the strength of the effect but it should be a fixed cooldown rather than scaling UP with tier.
- Play with your food: 10 second cooldown from stack gain - Justified but only exists for edge cases anyways
- Spies from the shadows: 5 second cooldown from crow trigger - NOT justified and kills the perk
- Blood Echo: 80/70/60 second cooldown form hook - NOT justified since the effect doesn't stack well with itself when applied several times in succession, and it's counterplay doesn't require an explicit window of inactivity, AND the perk has an inherent cooldown due to the speed in which hooking is possible
- I'm All Ears: 60/50/40 second cooldown from end of effect - Justified but it should start on the vault instead
- Surge: 60/50/40 second cooldown from gen explosion - NOT justified due to the perk already having an inherent cooldown due to regressing gens being immune
- Territorial Imperative: 30/25/20 second cooldown from end of effect - NOT justified. The perk would still be weak even with continuous basement aura reading
- Thrilling Tremors: 100/80/60 second cooldown from the end of effect - justified. The effect being chained would be far too strong and picking up a Survivor has no inherent cooldown. That said it should probably start when you pick the Survivor up instead
- Trail of Torment: 80/70/60 second cooldown from generator kick - NOT justified. The effect WOULD be good when chained if it weren't for the perk highlighting the kicked gen. But since it does the cooldown is unnecessary.
- Zanshin Tactics: 40/35/30 second cooldown from Survivor hit? - No. Just... no
- Dragons Grip: 120/100/80 second cooldown from end of effect application window - Justified due to the strength of the effect. But it should start on the gen kick.
- Hex: Blood Favor: 60/50/40 second cooldown from end of effect - NOT justified due to it's status as a hex. If this wasn't a hex then a cooldown would make sense. But since it is a hex it needs to be really strong to justify that, and this just isn't
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@Ivaldi said:
You know why? Because the survivors got absolutely nothing from this..
Visionary -
You see gen auras within 32 meters (has a 20 second cooldown once a gen is complete)- Deja Vu is better and immediately shows 3 gens off the start of the match.Desperate Measure -
+10% Healing/Unhook speed per injured/downed/hooked survivor (40% max) -Botany & Knowledge gives a base healing speed of 33% and increases item efficiency without any requirements.Built To Last -
Once per trial refill a depleted items charges by 30% after 10 seconds -Do I even have to explain how bad this perk is? It'll give a purple medkit 9 charges which isnt enough for a single heal. The only thing this might give is 1 extra flashlight blind.Why are you only using the T1 version of these perks?
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@Heartbound said:
I'm the type of person to run Undying and Thrill of the Hunt for the sole purpose of messing with people.
Back when I was in yellow ranks I ran Thrill with Haunted Grounds on Spirit just to I could get free grabs. I didn't care about the exposed effect, I just wanted better odds of a hex being found for Thrill.
I wasn't even running any actual hex's. So no matter what they cleansed there was no winning.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551329#Comment_1551329
Then either the measurements between floors are off or there's a glitch allowing the killer to see survivors auras when the totem is on a different floor from them.
I mean this IS BHVR we are talking about. There being such a glitch isn't that unlikely.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551317#Comment_1551317
As I said before, you need to know the totem is there. As a survivor you aren't alerted that the killer is seeing your aura because you passed over a totem that's on a floor below you. Cleansing should be done, but I think the aura reading should be if you touch the totem not just go near a totem.
If it's on the floor below you then it's going to be more than 2 meters away
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I mean the power DOES help with map pressure. It lets you bounce between gens and cover the initial distance of a chase very quickly........ and then your kinds stuck because he can't go through doors.
So yeah, that.
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@HittingOnHook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1548537#Comment_1548537
yeah perhaps thats the only one you can save but waiting 2 minutes for each activation is kind of a big cons
80 seconds. 120 is just the T1 cooldown.
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That first Killer perk cannot be bad with it's current numbers
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That said these perks are just kinda eh.
Visionary in particular cannot be good