Desperate Measures vs Thanataphobia
So why is this survivor perk allowed? That is what I am going to discuss and the big issue it brings to the game that I’m not sure if anyone has realized yet.
Now let’s start with the issues of what is wrong with Thanataphobia and the reasons the developers gave on why it wouldn’t receive a buff. Firstly while 16% slowdown seems a lot if you think about it with all the current perks that increase speeds it gets easily overridden so it’s already not that great. Then when asked about a buff to the numbers we were told any higher would be too much. Now comes in why this new perk makes Thanataphobia useless.
This new perk caps at 56%. That is already 40% higher then Thanataphobia but it doesn’t even stop there. This perk stacks with others using the same perk and other speed increase perks as well. Meaning if this is used anything that does slowdown while someone is injured have no effect anymore. Now I don’t have anything personally against the perk I quite like it. My question though is why was even making Thanataphobia 5% per stack too much but 14% a stack isn’t?
Let me know your thoughts on the matter below
TLDR: 4% a stack was too much to increase any higher but 14% per stack is fine
Edit: I understand this new perk isn’t actually that great on its own I’m talking in facts of making a killer perk null. Also I know thana effects gens but if people run res spine chill they already reach these numbers there isn’t anything killer has on slowdown that can reach the numbers of this new perk though.
Comments
"So why is this survivor perk allowed?"
Because its bad?
You can either have 56% if all 4 Survivors are injured/dying/hooked or a 33% Increase by Botany Knowledge, which you will have all the time. Nobody will run this Perk.
Because thana also affects generator repair speeds
Don’t get me wrong I understand because of its style it’s just as bad as Thanataphobia I’m just more curious to why 4% before and now was too much for killer but now it seems 14% is fine if it’s on survivor ( not saying the whole game is focused to one side just some changes and new things)
Because thana doesn't only impact healing/unhooking. It impact gen speed which is super oppressive which is the point.
Well Thanatophobia also affects repair speed while Desperate Measures affect only altruistic actions. Plus Desperate Measures only affects one survivor's healing speed while Thantophobia affects every survivors' action speed. 16 X 4 = 64% total reduction across all survivors.
I plan to use this perk to make saves, because it does unhooking speed as well i believe?
If so then with resilience i can 100% take a hit make the unhook and then DH out of the way with plenty of time to spare.
This perk is not as good as you think it is. BK and We'll Make it are still significantly better. This perk requires everyone being injured in order to be of real use. If you unhook the only injured person, it gives a whopping 14% where as BK gives 33% and We'll Make It gives even more. Autodidact will still be the likely 3rd choice for any healing build. The only time it might be a powerful perk is vs Legion. I've seen this perk in use, it is not impressive by any stretch.
Similar to the killer perk that locks down pallets. Looks great and strong on paper, but is not very practical in use. 8 of 10 times when I get a hit on a survivor, there is only one pallet within 16m and they easily use the speed burst to make it 20+ meters to other pallets. The only time it is truly helpful is when you down someone at a pallet and now they can't throw the pallet down on you when you pick them up. Too situational.
So do a lot of survivor perks that if stacked exceed Thanataphobia numbers and that’s only needing one person to do it and can be stacked to be even higher add those with this perk boom your basically never injured
This perk and a couple of the new killers perks are gonna make me hate this game
Thana affects gen progress which is necessary to escape. Desperate Measure primarily affects healing which is not necessary to escape.
Always be thankful for healing perks. They may actually motivate people to heal instead of doing gens while injured.
A Killer with Thanatophobia will want people running this thing, Desperate Measures does not increase gen speeds while Thana does slow them down.
A team running Desperate Measure against Thanatophobia will enjoy a 46% faster healing speed at the cost of 16% gen speed penalty, being at risk of getting one shooted and consuming a perk slot. I would LOVE facing said team.
As others have said, Thana also affects Gen Speeds. Considering that there are already some good Slowdown Perks around, maybe the Devs dont want to buff another Slowdown Perk (which is already used anyway). And during the time it was tested with 6% (I think it was 6%), Old Legion was a thing and having a Killer where you do not want to heal against AND 24% Slowdown is a little bit too much I guess. And why it did not get changed after Legion got changed... Well, I would guess my first reason, but I dont know for sure.
Personally, I am not a big fan of plays like that. Sure, I also got Unhooks like this when the Killer is camping, but using it for plays like that... Not a fan. And when it comes to Unhooks in general, I would prefer We Will Make It anyway.
They would insta heal themselves or their team you have no slowdown as heals would take no time at all and they would have plenty time to rush gens and loop.
This perk is most likely going to be nerfed.
This because Thana isn't even a good perk for slow down. There's literally no reason, if you know how this game works, to run such a weak perk dependent on survivors healing.
To be fair, Desperate measures ONLY affects healing and unhooking, while Thana affects basically everything. I do thing Desperate Measures should be 10% max though, it being so high worries me that we might see the "heal in the attack cooldown" tech return if everybody is injured
It doesnt instantly cancel Thana tho.
Oh stop complaining. The perk is bad, no one will use it. Also if Thana is that bad, don't use it either.
Problem solved.
Unless someone us doing a specify healing or repairing build I doubt the perk will be used often. Might see it a bit in swf but rarely, if ever, as solo. Paulie Esther stream showed them testing out different builds for healing and managed to do a heal in 2.5 seconds, but I doubt that'd really be a go to build.
There are only 3 Survivor perks that effect generator speed:
Resiliance, Prove Thyself and Spine Chill.
Spine Chill's timing is awful for gen rushing so it isn't worth talking about in this context
Resiliance doesn't have high enough numbers for this argument to work.
While Prove Thyself DOES have big enough numbers, it's also always accompanied by an even bigger basekit gen slowdown effect that cancels it out and then some. So you can't actually use the perk to complete gens faster than is already optimal.
That said, thana could totally work at 5%, maybe even 6%. Definitely not more than that.
Either way, THIS perk, desperate measures that is, effects exclusively heal speed.
Heal speed increase perks on Survivors are worse than heal speed slowdown perks on Killers, let alone gen speed slowdown perks. Simply because the Killer controls when it is best to heal or not, meaning that Killer anti-heal perks are inherently more consistently useful than Survivor healing perks in general.
Additionally, a % slowdown is worth more than an equal % speedup. On healing a 33% slowdown is 8 seconds wasted (16/0.666... = 24) while a 33% speedup is 4 seconds saved (16/1.333.... = 12), and if stacked it's still a 2 second stall (16/0.666..../1.333... = 18).
Remember, Sloppy butcher makes a heal take 20 seconds. While botany indeed makes a heal take 12 seconds. This is the exact same slowdown magnitude, yet sloppy is 20% while botany is 33%.
In this case we are comparing thanataphobia to Desperate measures. For all of the above reasons we should expect Desperate Measures to have a massively bigger impact on healing compared to thana.
So thana at 4 stacks is 16%. That's a 19 second heal for 3 seconds stalled. Desperate measures is a 10.25 second heal for 5.75 seconds saved. That is only a 2.75 second difference on a perk that does half as much and is inherently less reliable because of what I said about healing perks in general earlier.
Because botany is better in literally every way and there i no reason to run this perk on the CHANCE it works
I don't think this perk is amazing or anything, but Thana just has such abysmal numbers on a situational perk that it's generally not worth using over other perks.
So in other words while this new perk is not the next meta setter or anything, Thana is so bad a lot of perks will look better by comparison.
Why not stack them?
Desperate Measures is everything Thanatophobia wants to be.
Like Soul Guard, I think this perk is going to be fine by itself but broken when combined with other similar perks. However, people are going to defend it just because it's fine by itself and completely ignore the fact that combining it with other perks will break it. Healing during the attack cooldown "tech" was really stupid and shouldn't return.