Pryzm
Pryzm
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There will always be people who complain. That is not what should be focused on. Focus on whether the changes are well thought out and vetted. Therein lies the problem with this dev team. Changes are rarely well thought out and often make matters worse.
I should be careful here. The last time I laid out a well thought out critique of the developer's lack of quality control process, the mods shut down the thread saying we can't criticize the devs on their forums. Pathetic, but true.
Ignore people complaining and look to find those who have legitimate concerns about changes. This dev team is infamous for not taking the ripple affect of their changes into consideration.
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No, they deserve every ounce of criticism. They make boneheaded nerfs, like the current Pop nerf, ignore in game bugs for months and even years. They hurt the game regularly. Look at the massive healing nerf a couple of years ago. So many of us said the result would be a harder focus on gens, creating a mess for killers who relied on snowballing matches. What happened? Gen rush era.
They ignore concerns and warnings and pat themselves on the back for minor things. How many players tried to warn how broken MoM's synergy would be in various game situations? They ignored it. Got the cash grab and nerfed it to oblivion.
This game has the absolute worst quality control process of any game I've seen in years. They don't vet their perk, power, and buff/nerf ideas well at all. They don't tgink of how one thing could cause ripples across the game when combined with others.
No, tgis team should honestly be replaced or at least the management should. The game could be so much better than it is if it had a decent dev team and good quality control processes.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1628510#Comment_1628510
This is definitely not the solution. It doesn't solve the issue of 4-man SWF all running the same meta perks.
I don't think you have a good grasp of what I'm saying or you don't understand how the game changes with slight tweaks.
Right now, we are killing solo play with each chapter released. Thus pushing people into SWF. For every claim about survivors using meta perks there is a counter claim about killers doing the same. For every complaint about BT, DS, and Unbreakable there is a prime example of why those perks are in the game.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen a killer respond to a post complaining about camping by saying to run DS and BT, "...that's what they're for...." Only to turn around and cry fowl at everyone running DS and BT.
On the rare occasion that I feel like torturing myself, I'll play survivor. Inevitably I face match after match of tunneling stooges, but I hate running DS or BT. So, I have little defense other than to loop, then the killer complains about loops.
You want to stop worrying about SWF? Simple, buff killer. Make them able to pressure maps and end loops faster. For instance, every time the killer is DS'D he gains a slight percentage to breaking pallets, kicking gens and stun reduction. Call in a rage factor that grows every time it happens.
In order to do this, you have to throw some love to solo survivors as well though. Give them some more information. Give them a totem counter so they can see how many are left. Give them the ability to see the killer's aura near a hooked survivor, etc.
Nerfing has gotten us into this hole to begin with. You start punishing friends for playing together, you might as well shut down the game.
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Punishing people for playing with friends is foolish and a very bad business move.
Buff solo survivors and buff killers. Problem solved.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Face camping, camping and tunneling are a part of the game.
I just wish the Devs would add this warning to the hint screen and have it pop up more often than others the way the mobile Devs do.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B9B7H2I8S4HW/image.png
It truly is a shame.
Good luck and hope you'll come back.
If they added that, they would have to end with. "He is likely running NOED though, so only one of you is likely to survive. If you take the time to cleanse totems, that gives the killer time for a third kill. If you don't, he will likely get 1 to 2 more anyways. Good Luck!"
Camping and tunneling to extreme is the number 1 thing that drove me to become a killer main years ago. It's boring and quite broken with the right perks. SWF is the only answer, which I think also dampens the horror aspect. Not knowing what the others are doing is part of the fun. But, that's why solo play is dying. I face more and more SWF now than ever before.
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@Avarice10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1618601#Comment_1618601
I disagree completely, once you hook a survivor the chase is over, BBQ let's you know which gens to pressure and ultimately allows the killer to start another chase, keeping the pressure on. It's strongest on high mobility killers who can capitalize on this information and B line straight to the survivor, every game I play where a killer has BBQ this always ends up the case, they come straight for me or another survivor on a gen and you're now in a chase, there's not always time to get in a locker, or one near by to get in one, and if we're honest, most survivors don't go in a locker even with BBQ, thus your position is completely and totally compromised putting you in peril. Sometimes you can't mind game them because the gen you're working on was in a corner so you're boxed in. It's an extremely powerful perk and most killers run it for this reason, Huntresses love it because it allows them to take pot shots of survivors and some can actually land those hits too. OoO does not give the survivors this kind of advantage, no where near it. SWF can capitalize on it sure, but OoO is an information perk, and like an information perk it suffers from the information syndrome, OoO is really only a perk that's useful for solo survivors who really want to escape.
It's also fair to say you're being a complete and total hypocrite here, you're complaining about OoO because of its long range aura reading ability, and BBQ has the exact same ability, the only difference is the condition the ability is activated. They're one and the same, they share the same ability. So if you have a problem with OoO you should understand why BBQ is also a problem for survivors. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
No amount of discussion will help here. You are completely lost in your fervor at this point. If you think BBQ leads to easy engagement in chases, you are either the luckiest killer main around or the worst survivor.
Best of luck to ya.
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Because PH needs tweaking from both angles. There is zero counter play to him faking M2. There should be a drawback to him faking it, even if it is only a temporary hesitation in the ability to M1 or a slight slowdown after faking it. At the same time, his M2 is very clunky and not intuitive. It needs to be altered. I see it used more as a fake than an actual attack.
Face it, he needs a few minor tweaks. That means they'll completely jump the shark and mess him up. :(
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Probably because DS was nerfed long before Ruin was changed? Noticed I said nerfed and changed? It's simple:
- Old DS was a pure nightmare. You had no idea who had it. They could use it from the first time they are picked up - no hook requirement. You could, and I have been, DS'ed 4 times before you get your first hook. 4 Gens are done by this point and you are looking at getting your first actual hook with 1 gen left. Snowballing a match like that is nearly impossible. Old DS was a pure nightmare. There is only one thing I'd change about new DS. If you hop in a locker or are "grabbed" from a gen, it deactivates. Let the killer at least have the option to play around DS by slugging.
- Old Ruin was immensely strong vs new and low skilled survivors. I've seen entire teams get wrecked by really bad killers because of old Ruin. At red ranks, it was barely even noticeable. The skill level between the survivors was much higher. Hitting great skill checks was easy. So easy, they would meme around if they missed one. Ruin did very little at high ranks. Would often get destroyed fast too.
- New Ruin is much more useful to me at higher ranks. I get rewarded for pushing survivors off of gens. I don't have to stop and kick every gen in order to get it to regress. I get a 200% regression reward with no wasted time. Most matches, I'm 2-3 hooks in before it gets destroyed, unless they spawn next to it. Why? Because most of the time survivors don't think of it as a hindrance. Until they keep getting pushed off gens and losing progress. By that time, I'm starting to snowball and they have to get ruin gone. So I get even more time as they hunt it down.
Personally, I love new Ruin much more than old. I get a lot more value out of it than I ever got out of the old one at red ranks. I do agree, it is nowhere near as strong at lower ranks though. Old Ruin outright crippled new players. Frankly, it was not a balanced perk to people who struggle to hit skill checks, not alone great ones. It made for some very lazy killers.
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@Avarice10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1618158#Comment_1618158
It is comparable, the Killers job is to pursue and guard gens, BBQ instantly reveals the locations of all survivors, letting the killer know which direction to go in, 5 seconds is all the information they need, it's the difference from being lost and checking gens not being worked on, to checking the gen that is near completion, destroying its progress and initiating another chase keeping the pressure on. BBQ utilized to its fullest potential means the survivors will never get any respite. OoO does not have that kind of power in the slightest, no where near. It's an info perk a survivor can use to play more stealthy to avoid running into the killer, it can help with mind games during chases, but it's not a chase perk, it's not popular in solo builds and it's not meta, that's the difference between OoO and BBQ. How rewarding OoO is depends entirely on how you use it and how strong your mind games are, BBQ is strong in any game because it gives the Killer the information where to patrol to initiate another chase, and if you took the aura reading ability off BBQ you'd see far less use on the perk and a lot of Killers crying, so if OoO is going to be hit by a nerf BBQ should be right next to it on the chopping block. Survivors version of BBQ doesn't even grant any ability. Fair is fair.
lol You are confusing perks here or something pal. BBQ rarely leads to a chase vs halfway decent survivors. BBQ is at best useful for targeting a gen to kick most of the time. Most survivors will start walking in one direction and move in any one of several others. By the time you get there, they are long gone. I used to think BBQ was so strong until I became a killer main. I then learned it was only strong because I was not a very good survivor. A few short seconds, requiring I get a hook and the survivors be far from me, is not much. OoO is constant info whenever you want it unless the killer is very close. So if I'm running OoO in an SWF and I see Pig or GF's aura moving towards the direction of the killer shack, I can warn everyone where they are. So much for stealth. If I see Trapper's aura putting a trap in the area of a jungle gym outside the killer shack, I can warn everyone where the traps are. That is an insane amount of information. That outright neuters the power of several killers.
To compare the two perks is the outright height of ignorance. Heck, Bitter Murmur gives better information than BBQ. Alert gives better information than BBQ as well. Even Spine Chill (one of my favorite perks) is better information than BBQ. BBQ is great because it is a ton of BP, period.
You can continue to try and stretch this silliness, but I doubt anyone who has experience on both sides would be willing to argue that BBQ is near the information wealth of OoO.
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@Avarice10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1618102#Comment_1618102
I'd say it's a fair comparison, BBQ gets extensive use and is one of the meta perks of killers, it also gives double blood points and does not reveal the killers aura to the survivors. In regards to OoO, stealth killers abilities counter OoO, the killer will be able to see you and you won't be able to see them. OoO is just another info perk, it doesn't do anything aside that, it can help with mind games, and in the rare chance it's a trapper it can help counter him, but that's about it. Perks are supposed to be upgrades. OoO is fine as is. If killers can have BBQ I don't see why we can't have OoO. Also 4 is kind of a moot point because it allows the killers to know where to look in the first place and in most cases they do find survivors when they check, at the very least they know which gen to use Pop on and patrol which can have a devastating affect on the survivors. BBQ is super strong on killers with high mobility, against a Billy, Nurse, Oni, Spirit, and now Blight, they can hook the survivor, see where the other survivors are, and be there within a moments notice and start up a chase. BBQ allows Killers to apply immense pressure, with the ability to instigate a new chase right after ending the last, this is a huge advantage, BBQ has an oppressive impact on the game and forces survivors to change the way they play.
The reason it is meta for killers is purely the BP. 90% of the time I forget to even focus on the auras. I'm running it for BP alone. The only time I really care about the aura site is if I'm running Pop. I can quickly see what gen is being worked and hit it. If you think that is comparable to constant surveillance on the killer, stealth or otherwise, you are insane.
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@Avarice10 said:
How will you nerf BBQ?
BBQ is not a proper comparison. It is nowhere near as informative.
1. BBQ gives what, 5 seconds? The first 1 second is usually lost due to finishing the hook animation and locating an aura.
2. Survivors have to be pretty far away.
3. Survivors can counter the perk by hopping in lockers
4. It often is more misleading for slower killers as they get to said location and the survivor is long gone.
5. It encourages the killer to leave the hook.......
BBQ gives maybe 10% of the information OoO gives. Nice try though.
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The perk gives you a wealth of information. It can not only identify the type of killer, but where and what they are doing. In a SWF, it is insanely powerful. Vs certain killers, like Trapper, it is massively unbalanced.
It should come with a heavy negative or strict limits. Here are a few ideas. Each is independent, meaning each number is a separate idea:
1. Has 5 charges. Each charge gives 3 seconds of aura site
2. The survivor is so focused on the killer they suffer negatives on repair, healing, vault and door speeds. If the survivor loses the obsession status, they lose the benefits of OoO.
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I played my first survivor match in a week last night. Had a daily to escape. First match, tunneled for a four gen run and then face camped to death. Second match was fun for the first couple minutes. Billy was everywhere. Then 2 DCs at the same time. If you look at the circumstances, they were both Megs with the same outfit and complimentary names. Likely a 2-person SWF. One was about to unhook me and just stopped. Likely lost connection. I died when the 4th person came for the hook and Billy grabbed him. 3rd match looked like the one I would finally get this done on. It was a back and forth match with GF. He had several hooks, but only one of us on death hook. Last gen popped and he DC'd. Fourth match started with a DC. 5th Match was another face camper who ran NOED. I destroyed 4 totems, but there was obviously a 5th. Bubba got me as the last gen popped and NOED kicked in. Face camped again. I gave up. I hate survivor role. I hate solo survivor. It is just ridiculous trying to play solo survivor right now.
DC's suck. I see one every 5 matches as killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I can't imagine testing this killer internally, seeing the feedback from the PTB, and STILL coming away from it thinking the lethal rush lunge turn radius was fine. Stop solely listening to feedback from 50 hour Andys. Let us have an actual reward for investing time and effort into these killers.
Knowing their hitbox problems, I can't imagine how this power concept got past the initial recommendation stage. Did nobody at the table stop the group and say, "guys, we struggle to get a killer around a pallet without their hit box causing them to get hung up, maybe a pinball killer is not the best idea right now?"
Nope, sounds good! Trapper got stuck on a bush just now, but we got this!
BRILLIANT!!
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Personally, I like the new Ruin more than the old. Old Ruin was not as useful at higher ranks because the survivors hit great checks like it was nothing. It was so easy, they would meme around if they missed one. It was a joke.
New Ruin rewards me if I pressure the area of gens I want to protect. Granted, like all totems, it depends on totem placement, but when the placement is decent, new Ruin buys me much more time in the higher ranks than old ruin ever did. I admit that it is much less affective vs rank 16's than old Ruin was, but old Ruin was also outright crippling to new players. It was a bad design in my opinion.
If given the chance, I'd keep new Ruin over old. I don't usually agree with changes BHVR makes because they tend to overshoot or miss the mark by a lot. But this one is a rare goldilocks zone.
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I don't think I've been less interested in a chapter than I am in this one. The killer is bland and silly. The survivor is somehow even more boring than normal survivors. The perks for the killer are quite strong, but I'm not sure they are so good that I have to have them. I've gone all this time without them, why do I need them now? The survivor perks are mostly crap, so I have no need to get this survivor.
Meh. I'll leave the monstrous pinball master alone and just wait a while for his perks to show up on the Shrine.
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Autodidact is sort of like a politician. It keeps making the promise of doing something great, but rarely, if ever, actually delivers. :)
Seriously, it can be a great perk, IF you can get the skill checks. I've used it sometimes where I get 4 skill checks in one heal. Others, I'll heal 4 people with no skill checks. It is way too inconsistent to be a great perk. It can be fun when it works.
When it works, you can heal someone in just a few seconds. When it does not work, which is most of the time, it does pretty much nothing but make it longer to heal. They should guarantee a skill check/greatly increase the chance of skill checks when you use this perk.
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Dead Dawg and Hawkins are fine. I enjoy both as killer and survivor. The Mansion and Sanctum are ok, at best. Temple is pure lazy. Ormond is a nightmare and bad design. Midwife is an intriguing concept, but pure murder on colorblind people. The map actually causes me to get a migraine if I play it. I usually have to go hang out in the courtyard and look at the ground or I'm in pain by the end.
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There are more streamers who upload their failures than you may think. I've seen tons from Otz, Puppers and even Monto. Though he is often considered divisive, N00b3 dies in most of his vids. Otz even posts compilation videos of him getting beaten.
There is a reason I don't buy into many narratives about "get gud and don't get caught" or "learn to end loops faster and get gud". It's because I've seen really good players beaten often in streams and videos. Being good does not mean 4k every match or escape every chase.
Oh, and there are tons of toxic players on both sides.
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I don't skip lobbies. 3 keys? Let's play 'Find My Key' with special gues, Franklin's Demise.
Two plau flashlights? Maybe I load Lightborn or stick with Franklin's. Two or more tool boxes? So what? Either I increase the strength of addons or go to a slow down build. I don't even sweat healing kits. I'm happy to have you spend time healing. I might toss Sloppy or change out my trap selection to make you add a few seconds to your heal.
In short, there is not much that will make me skip. Maybe, if I'm just not in the mood, I'll skip a .ttv lobby. I'm not up for being the entertainment for your attempt at money or fame since I don't get a cut of it.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1599502#Comment_1599502
"I eventually added one plus one and figured out that Spirit was easy because she does not have much, if any counter play."
Alternative theory, Spirit makes survivors brains leak out their ears and they just do really really stupid things that actually just make it easier to catch them. I play Spirit, Huntress, and Nurse primarily. I notice that anytime I play Spirit survivors just do REALLY dumb #########. Like super dumb #########. ######### I would never expect them to do against any other killer. ######### that just makes no sense.
Spirit feels easy because survivors overthink how to outplay her and end up outplaying themselves.
Part of the reason they are trying outlandish tactics is because the norm, or logical, do not work. From the survivor side there is way too much chance involved. There is little to no way of knowing what side of a window or pallet Spirit is moving on. Sometimes they just try to do something unexpected and it turns into a worse situation.
Honestly, I think 3 minor tweaks could fix all the issues on Spirit.
1. Make it more difficult to track by simple sounds, such as breathing and footfalls while phasing. Either make it greatly intermittent or just increase the noise the killer hears from the phasing sound itself. Make the killer's skill at anticipating survivor actions more important.
2. Have her movement "kick up dust". Let the survivor see an ever so subtle movement of grass or dust as she moves. Skilled survivors, or attentive ones, might pick up on it to make a play.
3. With the previous 2 intact, revert to the old Prayer Beads where phasing makes no noise at all. Survivors will be warned of her approach if they are paying attention. There will be grass or disturbed environmental as she moves.
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This is not an accurate comparison. I used to play Spirit. She was the first one I moved away from Trapper for. The problem was, she gave me a false sense of security. I was a middle of the road killer trying to ween myself off of NOED as my crutch. I started using Spirit and felt good. I was getting 3 to 4k every match. I could end loops easily with her power. I could easily locate survivors while phasing through sound. No matter what trick they used, it was easy.
Then I played Trapper and Pig again and got destroyed. I could not sit back and easily isolate survivors. I had to work out mind games and learn from mistakes.
I eventually added one plus one and figured out that Spirit was easy because she does not have much, if any counter play. The best counter play to Spirit is hoping the one playing her is not very good.
Now, I rarely run her unless there is a daily for her. I'm much better as a killer, especially with Trapper, because I did not have the easy win button.
Spirit, especially with Stridor, is not fun for many because she outright eliminates the skill level of the survivors she faces. It is more about the killer's skill level than anything else.
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Turn on the news. The world is flooded with toxic people right now. They lack empathy. They lack the ability to bridge the difference of opinions. They lack the ability to understand and care for the pain they cause in others. (See the empathy part)
When you think about it, our world is a direct result of multiple behaviors. We have 2 generations growing up behind the shield of a monitor and keyboard. Those 2 generations have a very disengaged adult group around them. Those adults are highly engaged in a world that went from cruise control to hair on fire. The world moves fast now. If you are sitting around, you miss it. So in order to climb the economic ladder, or just stay afloat, you have to be on the go. That leaves those kids to be on the net without monitoring. Add in a shoddy education system more focused on social engineering than Reading, Writing and Arithmetic and you have a perfect recipe for a world filled with angst and frustration combined with a lack of the ability to empathize with those we are frustrated with...or those we THINK we should be frustrated with.
That was a bit deep for a simple question about in-game behavior. But, that is just the state of the world lately. It gets worse every year. When online gaming first started, bad behavior got you on an exemption list. People would know who you were and would not let you join in. The Realm, Everquest and so many other games had tight-knit communities. I remember kill stealers in Everquest having their names blasted on the forums. When enough people saw the person involved continuing the behavior, the community started blacklisting them. That player tries to change their name because they can't get in a guild or get xp groups and Varrant Interactive would post all name changes....uh oh. That's not to say bad things did not happen, but they usually got worked out.
Now......even the developers don't count toxic behavior as bad. They pass it off as "legit" gameplay. Why? They'd have to ban 60% of their community for it. If camping and tunneling were bannable, half the killers in this game, most between ranks 8-16, would be banned. That's not giving survivors a pass, their numbers would be significant as well. Players who don't care as much about the objectives as they do frustrating the other players. That's perfectly ok in this game...which is not ok.
Enough rambling. Went way deeper than I intended to. People suck, instead of remembering the names of the azzholes, just remember the names of the good ones. The azzholes don't matter.
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The Trapper is unique amongst the killers. The only one with the bells to stand up to the Entity, and is not driven by killing.
@The_Krapper , the addon mention was not about losing the addon. We all know you lose it. But with Trapper, his addons are empty after every match.
Example: I run Doc and use 2 Calm addons. As long as I have more of each addons. After the match, the Calm addons will still be selected as long as I have enough in inventory. So I had 10, now I jave 9, but they are still selected and I can que up without selecting addons.
With Ttapper, say I use the Honing Stone and Burlap Bag. I have 10 of each. After the match, Trapper's addon selection is auto cleared. I have to select addons all over again before I que.
The person you responded to was asking if that was related to lore or was it just a glitch. As far as I know, it does not happen to other killers. I don't run much Billy, Spirit, Nurse or Wraith so I can't speak for them. (I know, I leave most of the best killers on the sidelines. Just not my style is all. I'm an unapologetic Trapper main.)
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1594687#Comment_1594687
You are missing the point. "Casual Game" is an entirely subjective term, like "toxic." They both mean whatever people want them to mean. If the so-called Casual Que is created, everyone is going to have a very different idea of that. Within one week you will be have people screaming about the toxic non-casual gamers, or people who want even another que for even MORE casual gamers. When you have a Que open up to the nameless faces of the internet, you cannot control how they define things, nor exclude them.
With a custom game, which is designed SPECIFICALLY for you and your friends to play together (and use any Add Ons or Perks you want) you small, cohesive group can DECIDE together what casual means. Logistically it is the ONLY way possible to achieve what is being talked about. The other way is simply a nightmare of epic proportions waiting to happen. Let's say Myers doesn't feel like dealing with those highly competitive SWF. He just wants what HE sees as a casual game, i.e. what he defines it as. He then proceeds to go on an epic rampage. I'm sure it will feel very relaxing and casual to him.
1st of all, nobody said casual meant not good at the game. Obviously a casual mode might jave both behavior and perk limitations. Thus why it will never be introduced. Personally, I think custom match should be expanded to give players much more control. If I make a custom match where hooks relocate, survivors get free sprint burst and 5 second immunity when released from the hook, but no DS perks aloud, I could do that. If there was a lobby, you might see my settings and not want to join, so you don't.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/188291/competitive-mode
Technically this already exists, it is called a CUSTOM GAME where you and your friends get together, fill out the Survivor side, and one person is the Killer. I'm not trying to be sarcastic; I'm just stating a fact. Your idea is fatally flawed, but not because you don't mean well.
What exactly would prevent the deranged, I just love tormenting people from pretending to want to play casual games so they can go in and slaughter you like lambs? :) What is a casual game? It is all subjective. You will have the SAME problems you have now (probably worse) and simply have created more Ques.
Competitive game does not really fit the mold well.
- You have to recruit players yourself as opposed to just readying-up. If they created a "lobby" of players for customized game.
- No growth or advancement - biggest issue
- Limited customization. If this was a fully developer-mode type of customized game it might make it better. As in, ability to eliminate perks or items, adjust gen speeds, etc.
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I like the concept, but I would add a bit to it.
Competitive:
- BP rewards are better per match - Just playing competitive makes the rewards better. Helps with the grind.
- DO not disable Moris and Keys. Sure, use them, but they count against your score. You could be doing more harm to your score than you are helping. At the same time, a Cypress mori may be just the thing to put pressure on a skilled SWF. It could pay off in the long run to get that first kill early and scoop up more points in the long run. Or, a key to ensure escape for a solo player might be just what was needed to get the points/pip you wanted. Competitive play is where Mori/key should count more than casual.
- Casual should be a bit more toxic-free than competitive. This is where mori's and keys should not function the same. Moris should only work in place of the 3rd hook. Keys are only working for 1 person and only if the killer has closed the hatch.
- Casual mode should see less camping and tunneling off the hook. It should also have a limit to the amount of high quality items that can be brought in by survivors. One tool kit, 2 heal kits, 1 flashlight, etc. Or perhaps just remove some perks - DS would not be needed if tunneling and camping is not a thing in Casual. How are tunneling and camping dealt with? Simple, the survivor is flat out moved to a new location once hooked. If they end up in the killer's radius for more than 2 seconds, the hook moves again and death timer stops for 10 seconds. Unhooked survivors leave no tracks and are immune to hits for 15 seconds or until they interact with the game (Totem, gen, healing). No DS, no BT needed at that point. (All of this cancels when the 5th gen is complete)
- Slightly less BP rewards in Casual mode (say 5% penalty?). Why? It is more about rewarding the hardcore competitive mode than anything else. You don't want to increase Competitive mode BP by too much or you upset the BP economy, but this is a way of increasing that incentive.
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That is a very subjective question.
Personally, I find Trapper the most fun and the most rewarding. Why? It is a very cerebral killer. Trying to outsmart players with crafty trap placement is what makes it fun. Sometimes a trap is not meant to trap you, it is meant to shorten the loop so I can down you - or keep you from running that loop. "Oh, he placed a trap in the open here, no way I'll fall for that." But, you run to the nearby unsafe pallet where I finish the chase. Thanks. :)
Other than that - Pig. And yes, I allow the booping of the snoot. Matter of fact, if the game has been relatively toxic-free and you boop the snoot, there is a good chance you get hatch. Or - I let you death race for it (I down both near an exit, open the exit and scoop the loser). Not sure why I find Pig fun. Her stealth is a joke (I can't see crap in stealth! and everyone can see me!). Her RBT are such a wildcard you can't depend on them at all. But.....I still enjoy her.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1594022#Comment_1594022
Not quite zero difference. No time spent finding each other, then going your seperate ways afterward to your goals. For a single heal, SC is more efficient. This does not mean it's always the best play to burn 32 sec to heal. But it's certainly not always the worst play, either.
Though I fully understand, and agree with, your numbers, I think you leave out a huge factor here. Most of the time, when I see someone actually self-caring, it is at key moments when there is someone on a hook, or a pivotal moment where the match could go either way and one more person a gen means victory. But, some survivor is in a corner self-caring and all goes to crap. They usually get hatch though....good job. lol
Self-care can be useful. It can be efficient, but is rarely ever used in an efficient manner. Nearly every self-care user I've seen as killer is the weak link in the team. I make sure to keep injuring them, but not chasing them. I know they will run to a corner to self-care and I can get a 2nd person off of gens. They are more often than not a detriment to their team.
That said, what can you do about it? Nothing.
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The hatch is fine as is. The only reason anyone complains about it is because they themselves feel entitled to the 4k or the escape. I prefer to have a hatch than not have one because I don't want to play cat and mouse forever. I prefer this hatch to the hatch stand offs - thought I usually just smacked them and walked away. I don't care if they get the hatch before me. Don't get me wrong, I'll try to scope out the hatch during my patrols/chases and will try to get to it and shut it, but I'm not going to lose any sweat over a hatch escape. Congrats, next match. If I pushed the game to 1 hatch escape, I clearly won that game. Not that I care much on that either.
The only thing I think that needs to truly be changed about EGC is:
- The doors need to be set further apart and no in easy LoS. I've had many matches where I can stand and see both doors. It is nuts. Nobody stands a snowball's chance in he** of getting out. Why have the ruse at that point?
- DS and BT should be disabled once the 5th gen is completed. I get tired of going out of my way sometimes to not tunnel someone, just to get a DS when I have 1 on the hook and the door is open/99%. Gee, do I hit the uninjured person and wave good-bye or do I down the injured one and try to secure a kill? Well, crap, had I tunneled the tar out of them earlier, they would not have DS, but because I tried to be a decent dude, I will get hosed. Guess what I'm going to do next match? I'm going to get those DS's gone early. This function encourages tunneling and I absolutely hate that.
- The killer should have the option to damage the gate lever, thus putting it into regression. Just like a gen. If it is 99% and I hit it, it should start regressing. Let's make it interesting and truly put a risk on the side of survivors using the tactic. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the tactic, but there is little risk to it. There should be something the killer can do about it.
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No way. Nobody should be punished for playing with their friends. I hate getting coordinated SWFs as much as the next killer, but I will never agree with punishing people for playing an online game with friends. That is the dumbest move you can make. Remember, BHVR needs to make money. They need players to play and have fun with their friends and community to do it. Punishing them for playing with friends would be pure stupidity.
The problem is straight forward. The game is not balanced towards comms at its core. So, lets make some changes from there. Buffs are the way to go. Buff solo survivors by giving them some core perk-like abilities that feed them key information. How many totems are left? Is the killer still near the hook? Things an SWF might be able to share. Perhaps the ability to see footprints of the killer and they degrade over time. So you know he was recently near killer shack.
Then, buff killers. Give them abilities to end chases sooner. I'd toss in a rage factor. The more a killer gets blinded or pallet stunned within a short period of time, the more filled with rage they become and eventually are no longer affected by these things. ie: After 3 pallet stuns, they begin breaking pallets with a swing of their weapon, or become temporarily immune to flashlight stuns after 2 within a 60 second period. These are just base ideas and would obviously need tweaking, but would help end chases faster, thus helping to counter the information gained by SWFs and buffed solo survivors. It would also reduce the chance survivors try to bait the killer - they may actually start to fear the killer...I know, crazy concept!!
Buffs are the way to go. We've seen nerfs do nothing but jack things up. I remember before the healing nerf we were worried survivors would stop trying to heal and just rush doing gens.....woops!
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This is really not saying much of anything. Yes, I see DS, Unbreakable, DH, etc, etc more than other perks. I also run BBQ, Ruin, DH, STBFL and a few others much more as a killer. When I play survivor, I don't run any of the perks you mentioned except for the occasional Spine Chill or Iron Will. Why? I just choose to. I see many killers running the same perks over and over and over.
Why is that? Are the perks OP? No, they are just solid perks that get lots of use and come in to play more than not. Why run perks like Deja Vu that are absolutely useless 99% of the time, or Monstrous Shrine.....yeah- I got nothing for that one; when you could be running perks that are actually helpful in matches no matter what?
I think the complaints about "meta" perks is an absolute waste of time. The reason there are roughly 20 perks on each side used over and over is because the other 5,475,339 perks are absolute trash. Ok....I might have overstated the number of perks by one or two, but you get the idea.
Most perks suck. You want people to run perks that suck or are only useful in very specific situations? I laughed when someone locked a gen while Ruin was up. Good job Captain Stupendous. I came by a few minutes later and the 50% gen was dead. Thanks for that. Nobody returned to work it and it died out. They thought I was going to kick the gen, but I was more interested in pushing them into the trapped field behind the gen. Or, when I see Small Game run, but I have no traps on Freddy and no Hex totems. Absolute wasted perk. Can Small Game be good? Sure, but it is situational. Dead Hard and Iron Will are almost always going to come into play. Same with DS now days. I dared play a few survivor matches this week and got chased right off the hook in 7 out of 9 matches. Absolutely a blast.....
Stop whining about meta and ask for better perks all around!
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Don't worry about rank right now. Play the killers you want to learn. Get beat, but learn. I play very well with Trapper, Freddy and Pig. I don't have a problem hanging out at rank 1 or 2 with them. I struggle a bit with Hag or Doc and tend to slip in ranks to around 4. I'm ok with it though. I am still perfecting my skills there and will eventually get better with them.
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Latency kills this too easily.
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Yeah, turn it off and sit in que for an hour. That's a real option.
Please. Fanbois on this site kill me. Crossplay was a desperate move to fill ranks for console players. They knew it would be a bloodbath and don't care. I can count on my hands how many console players have escaped one of my matches since it started. It is not due to them being bad players, it is due to their limitations. They don't mind game well because optimization allows me to catch them too easily. They don't loop all the well either. Their best move is a 360, which rarely works. So, they get immersed, which does not work well when you are stepping on traps while Urban Evading around the map.
I have gotten to where I find matches vs 4 console players to be pretty boring. I often just remove addons on Trapper....not like I'm playing Nurse or Spirit here. I've found myself easily sitting at rank 1 now where I used to hover around ranks 2-4. Yeah, I did not get better, the console players just fed me pips. (Again, I don't think they are bad, they are just at a disadvantage.)
Yes, there are exceptions to the rules. I've seen some exceptionally skilled 4 man groups of console players (suspect them to be SWF based on how coordinated they were). But, they were nowhere near as much of a headache as the 4 man coordinated SWFs I've seen from PC. Again, the optimization was the deciding factor here.
But hey, just turn it off and sit in que. That's a real solution. lol
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1589128#Comment_1589128
I wish it was as common as you guys claim it to be. Because I don't deal with it. I've maybe ran into like 6 camping Bubbas in my time before and after the buff to Bubba. And during those encounters, I survived 4 of them. And of those 4, 2 of which the entire team survived because we were somehow coordinated enough as Solos. Granted, I will admit I play Killer heavily so I don't see it as often as a Survivor main would. But I have a crap ton of hours put into playing Survivor and I'm Rank 1 on PC so most of the communities issues, I hardly see these days.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1589124#Comment_1589124
And this goes for both of you now. Whether you personally like it or not, it's part of the game. I don't like getting face camped either as much as the next guy, but it doesn't ruin my fun, nor do I get angry in EGC and bad mouth the Killer because he used a strategy I didn't like. You're going to run into some Killers that play differently that just out play you. Most of the time I blame myself for getting into that situation, and the other times I blame lag or bs latency hits.
I main killer, so I don't know how common they are. I've seen them, they are boring matches with little to do other than hold M1 till you leave. Does not matter how many there are, what matters is how many players like to be toxic just to "get back" at the other side. It's dumb. Play like you are in the same room. Play to win, that is all good. Sometimes camping is needed, sometimes slugging is needed. Sometimes body blocking is needed. What is not needed is an intent to just ruin the enjoyment of other players for the sake of doing so.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1588725#Comment_1588725
Because if they're not toxic... then I don't play "toxic". Crazy concept I know. You can still play differently from what your perks are. It's almost like anything can happen in game. Imagine being angry at someone choosing a specific strategy that you can counter completely by being a better Survivor.
Imagine being so angry that you specifically develop a strategy to not win, but just annoy other players. Yeah, I don't like players like that. Survivor or killer. Don't care. Players like that are too common now days and mostly because they never had to grow up playing games in front of others that could punch them in the mouth. Nor did they have to personally see who their words/actions hurt someone they wanted to be friends with. Yeah.....I don't like those people on either side. I'd rather play the game as intended, not just to annoy someone else.
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No, but it can be a horrible crutch. It can also reward toxic play.
NOED is a great perk for some builds. If you are running a killer that snowballs late in the game, say Trapper, and you put together an end game build, NOED is a key part. If you are a camping Bubba who is going to face camp each hook, NOED is rewarding a toxic pos. If you are running every build with NOED because you can't stop them from escaping without it, you are using it as a crutch.
It's that simple.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1588391#Comment_1588391
Shoot, I play good and I'm at Rank 1, and there's times where I want to PO some toxic Survivors and camp. Idk any builds for camping, so I would ask the community who does.
So chill
So, when you load up your toxic build before finding a lobby, how do you know you have toxic survivors? How do you know you don't have some decent people just playing the game? You don't. Thus, you play like an a$$, completely legal, and create new toxic survivors for us to deal with.
Good call.
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If you need a build to camp with Bubba, you are not very good, which explains why you are camping to begin with.
Try this one newbie- NOED, Blood Warden, Bitter Murmur and Iron Grasp/Agitation. Just make sure you don't hook the survivor until after the doors open with Blood Warden. That part might take the slightest bit of skill and timing so you might struggle with that. LOL
Enjoy low BP, low pip rate for the least effort possible. Players like this are what cause half the problems in this game. The other half are survivors.
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@redsopine00 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1586501#Comment_1586501
what about having spawn as a killer
As cool as that sounds, I don't want to see him getting looped, pallet stunned, flashlight blinded, and for heavens sake not DS. None of this would work vs Spawn.
Think about it, there is no way to do any of these characters justice in this game. Oh, and Spawn is neither DC or Marvel, but you likely already knew that.....just had to point it out.
As for Punisher, he'd rip half these killers to shreds with his bare hands. Do you really see him running from Legion? No, he'd take their knife and kill them with it. No, just no.
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The last thing I want to see is Leguon killing any member of Marvel or DC, not even OG Wonder Twins.
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My problem with preset traps is how strong Trapper becomes. It also takes out a significant portion of the cerebral side of tricking survivors.
If Trapper can getb4 to 5 traps set in an area before you knock out 2 to 3 gens, you are in trouble. Part of what I love about running him is how fast he can snowball a match.
Much of my best trap work comes around mid match when I have had a chance to asses the survivors and anticipate their behavior. Pre setting traps will start the snowball right away. Good Trapper players would be brutal.
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@HierDoctormain said:
How about some new tricks for old killers like giving the Wraith an attack from invisible that applies invisibility to the Survivor for everybody but the Killer which grants him an aura,
One idea I have for trapper is the ability to preset all of your traps on the map so you would go into a private game with the Killer select trapper and preset all of his traps before the match so you can start out without having to set up all of your traps
As a Trapper main, no thank you. I would like to start the match with the ability to carry 2 traps, and/or retrieve traps from lockers instead of having them spread all over the map. Still limit the number of traps, but let me get them from lockers.
Maybe a trap tracker telling me how many set and disarmed traps are currently in play. That one is not big, but could help me decide when to switch gears on chasing vs setting the field.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1575966#Comment_1575966
This isn't directly related to the post, but what is BW? My brain is currently shut off.
Blood Warden
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The only "phasing" hatchets I seem to get are the ones that phase around a corner and hit people. I've been able to clearly see my throw was off, but got a hit anyways. I crack up when I throw at a corner shot and see the survivor fall 2-3 meters from where my hatchet was thrown. I've been victimized by those shots several times myself.
I don't know what to say on Huntress. Her power is clearly balanced on hitboxes and latency. Any tweak is either making her too strong, or way too weak. I don't want either. I don't want her hitting through walls anymore, but I also don't want her missing every throw, regardless of how well-placed it is.
I am not a Huntress main, nor am I a Deathslinger main, so please correct me if my next assertion is not correct. I play both periodically while focused more on Trapper, Pig, Doc, Hag and Freddy. That said, it feels to me like Deathslinger's hitbox is much more stable than Huntress'. I know one is a small pinpoint and the other a rectangular object, but is there a way of using what works for Deathslinger's hitbox to improve Huntress'?
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
Do you know why Spirit is the "SWF" killer?
Because she doesn't depend on survivors being bad or making mistakes like many other killers do.
AS WE ALL KNOW
Most killers lack abilities that shut down loops in one way or another and have either to power through them (run in circles until survivor is forced to drop a pallet) or try to mindgame survivors (which usually works only in closed loops, where nor killer or survivor can see each other and have to guess what each of them will do.).
Killers are forced to "guess" what moves survivor is going to make and try to predict them and act accordingly or make lucky guesses (if killer has zero clue how survivor and hope that they will be correct. The good example of such "mindgamable loops" are:
- Long&Short high walls. They are usually present by high rocks or walls which cannot be seen through.
- T&L walls
- Jungle Gyms` pallet loop
- Any unique loops with long walls
and etc. In any of these loops, killer has to either power through and waste a lot of time or "mindgame". Good killer has a pretty good understanding of survivors' behaviour in such loops and he can try mindgaming them there and hope his mindgames will work. The thing is, if the survivor is good, he will not fall for these mindgames. Killer will only waste time doing them and he will have to power through loops.
The "M1" killers are at disadvantage in mindgames. They are the ones who have to rely on survivor's mistakes and the ones who have to force these mistakes in order not to get looped for 5 gens. If survivors are bad - mindgames work and killer is winning. If survivors are good, the killer is losing because he cannot afford powering through loops against good survivors.
All "M1" killers mindgames are relying on survivors' mistakes, guessing and trying to force mistakes. Or losing because 1 chase costs too much.
That situation is perfectly fine for many spirit, edgeslinger, pyramid and other "not loopable killers" complainers. They are totally fine when the SURVIVOR is in advantage in loop and killer has to be the one "relying on other's mistakes".
however
When the situation is mirrored, people are going nuts.
When survivors are at the disadvantage and not the killer that's awful.
When survivors have to be the ones "guessing" it's horrible.
When survivors cannot do much against a killer who makes no mistakes it's a disaster.
When survivors are the ones who have to understand killers' behavior in loops (instead of just hearing them/seeing red stain) or lose it's unacceptable.
I'm talking mostly, almost entirely about spirit, as she is the one who gets upper-hand in mindgames, however this partly applies to Deathslinger&Pyramidhead (as they have some other generic counters like early pallet drops, keeping distance or hiding behind obstacles/having direct line of sight between you). As for Spirit - you understand how she moves, there's little guessing for you. If not, then yeah, flip a coin, just like bad killers have to or get downed, just like they power through loops and lose 5 gens in 1 chase.
I'm waiting for your pathetic excuses "yOu DoN't uNdeRsTaNd tHaT iS dIfFeReNt"
I think Scott Jund said it best with Spirit. It is not about strong killers vs weak killers. It is about killers that completely remove the skill of the player. It does not matter if you are a great survivor or a crappy one, Spirit removes that aspect all together. It is down to pure guess work. Though as killer I have to guess at times, it is not the core of everything I'm doing. I use experience and strategy to force things most of the time. Whether it is consciously taking the worst approach to a jungle gym loop in order to push the survivor into my trap, or picking which areas of the map I won't pressure due to a lack of gens and/or the presence of strong loops in an area. In a chase, I may intentionally feign a pallet break or placing a trap in order to push a survivor away from a strong loop. None of this is guess work. It is all strategy. As a survivor, many chases, if not all, come down to pure guess-work and hoping the killer sucks. It does not matter if I'm good at stealth or good at looping, Spirit bypasses all of that in the hands of a semi-competent player.
There are whiny survivors out there that claim every killer is OP, but I don't find the argument vs Spirit to be in the same category. Her power, especially when combined with certain perks, is too oppressive. It eliminates the skill of the survivor and anytime you do that, you are hurting the game. What is the purpose of "getting gud" when it is irrelevant vs a certain power set?
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/186448/the-new-hitboxes-its-not-more-killer-side
I cant use my free second chance consistently this games unfair
Nothing "free" about it. DH has to be used right or it does not work. As a killer, I sit and wait for DH and catch them as they come out of it. This entitled crybaby mindset of "free second-chance" crap is for the birds. DS requires a skill check, DH requires the correct timing, Unbreakable is only useable IF the killer slugs, NOED requires a totem still be there when the last gen is done, BW requires the killer to time the hook right or it is pointless, etc, etc. We all have second chance perks and abilities. Those that use them well vs others who don't compensate for them does not create a problem for the game, it points out a lack of strategic thinking on the other's part. In other words, if you got burned by DH or NOED, you likely made the mistake of not planning for it.
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@EntitledMyersMain said:
Possible Solutions:
-Borrowed Time
-Giving the killer player a death threat
-Run Kindred. It won't save you, but at least it gives your team a benefit as long as you are camped.
And that's all I can come up with. But why is the killer player living in the past? Camping with Bubba is an outdated strategy.
If I may, BT no longer works well vs camping Bubba. He has such a long chainsaw duration that he can, and has, caught people that were hit with BT and downed them again with one chainsaw use. I got 2/3 across the map with the right addons. Using those addons, I was able to down 3 members of the party in one use. We were on Temple of Purgation. The first was by the killer shack; FP triggered and showed one at the end of the jungle gym near the killer shack. I downed her and made my way up the temple, catching the third who ran from the gen. No BT will outlast that.
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I so want a couple of these. Trapper with a "Santa's Helper" sweater and Clown with a "Ho-Ho-Ho!" sweater.